I get the feeling ya'll like my rants more...

[Lyniaer]

Okay, I been around a while, I think. A few of you know me in the game and most of you know me on the forums. I'm the guy that loves to rage about things. I get repped for raging! It blows my mind! Most of the replies are rag-bashing me for being a jerkhole, yet my CP lights up green. Then when I go and make a post to try to be helpful and encourage some useful engineering or feedback to the game...example:


I'm starting this thread to try to encourage Turbine to re-evaluate the keymapping system for the convenience of those who use a controller with limited button options. Right now I use an Xbox 360 Wireless Controller and it's eliminated my need to bury the screen under hotbars. I only need the one at the bottom and can cycle through my hotbars with speed..however, my drawbacks are;

1) Can only use hotbar areas 1-8. While I'm okay with this to the point where 9&0 can be used for things like Phiarlans Pendant of Time and Metamagics I never turn off. I use Hatswitch LURD for 1234 and Modifier(L1)+LURD for 5-8.
2) Can only target party members on the left side of the list using Mod+XYBA(R3) and no button to target myself.
3) The triggers (left for block, right for attack) often get the game stuck, causing UI glitches and occasionally bugging attacks all together.
4) Cannot use hirelings at all because all of my buttons are used up. I managed to eek out a combo for telling my silly arti pet to interact, but other than that, he gets away with doing what he wishes lest I drop the controller in favor of the keyboard for a vital split second that can get me greased.
5)Hiccups between Keymap #1 and Keymap #2 while 'in' the game. Like, I use the hatswitches for my hotbar buttons, but I also use them to cycle through NPC dialogue and loot items from chests. If my mouse-look is on, I can't do either of those and it inadvertently uses a hotbar button.

Some suggested changes? Mine are complicated, but would be HUGELY beneficial.
1) A controller-only option that disables the keyboard for any other purpose but the mouse and the chat window.
2) A controller-friendly keymap device that allows you to easily and intuitively design your controller the way you want it; including 4-axis button assignments for the thumbsticks (when using them with a modifier? That would give me 8 buttons in one thumbstick).
3) A "cycling" target-next and target-previous party member. By cycling I mean you can hold down the button and it will quickly spin through party members or available targets without having to tap the button 11 times to get to the last party member on the list on the right.
4) A 2nd or even 3rd modifier button option which will allow us to map the same button for 2 or 3 different purposes.


These are just a few ideas I can think of that would help 'me'. What would help 'you' so we can add to this list of ideas?

I get nada! No replies, nothin'. I guess it was far too melancholy of a post than most of you come to expect from me. So, here's what I'll do. I'm gonna re-write this in this thread in true Lyniaer Rant style. All for you guys! :D

I'm starting this thread to try to provoke Turbine into doings something mildly useful with their illegitimate concept of a keymapping system for the convenience of those who use a controller with limited button options. Right now I use an Xbox 360 Wireless Controller and it's eliminated my need to bury the screen under hotbars like all the long-time players do who thoroughly enjoy molesting their mouse to the point the paint's been rubbed off. I'm gonna list below the kind of asterisk-asterisk-asterisk-asterisk I have to go through just to make some kind of effective use out of this pathetic waste of a perfectly viable location in the options menu for, oh, I don't know...ENABLING DRUID MAYBE;

1) Can only use hotbar areas 1-8. While I'm fuming with rage with this to the point where 9&0 can be used for things like Phiarlans Pendant of Time and Metamagics I never turn off and heal scrolls on my cleric because I'm so awesome I never use them... I use Hatswitch LURD for 1234 and Modifier(L1)+LURD for 5-8.
2) Can only target party members on the left side of the list using Mod+XYBA(R3) and no button to target myself, because everyone on the right side of the list I generally dislike and enjoy watching them die.
3) The triggers (left for block, right for attack) often get the game stuck, causing UI glitches and occasionally bugging attacks all together. If it wasn't for the shoddy workmanship of this game's code or just an oversight of the penguin-humping developers who can't seem to notice these simple breaks in code; maybe due to some kind of optical arthritis where they're rendered blind every time it f^in' rains.
4) Cannot use hirelings at all because all of my buttons are used up. I managed to eek out a combo for telling my mentally challenged pet to interact, but other than that, he gets away with doing what he wishes lest I drop the controller in favor of the keyboard for a vital split second that can get me greased; (All Telero's Fault).
5)Hiccups between Keymap #1 and Keymap #2 while 'in' the game. Like, I use the hatswitches for my hotbar buttons, but I also use them to cycle through NPC dialogue and loot items from chests. If my mouse-look is on, I can't do either of those and it inadvertently uses a hotbar button!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111

Here's what needs to be done BECAUSE ONLY MY IDEAS MAKE SENSE RAGE.smallperiod
1) A controller-only option that disables the keyboard for any other purpose but the mouse and the chat window. I so love to think I'm in the chat window when suddenly my character sheet and LFM window pops up, everyone's name disappears and my character starts running brain-first into the nearest solid object capable of invoking a penalty to the intelligence modifier.
2) A controller-ANGRY keymap device that allows you to easily and intuitively design your controller the way you want it; including 4-axis button assignments for the thumbsticks (when using them with a modifier? That would give me 8 buttons in one thumbstick) - more buttons than Cubethulu could eat in a single sitting! Take that SirSquishAlot.
3) A "cycling" target-next and target-previous party member. By cycling I mean you can hold down the button and it will quickly spin through party members or available targets without having to tap the button 11 times to get to the last party member on the list on the right.
4) A 2nd or even 3rd modifier button option which will allow us to map the same button for 2 or 3 different purposes. So I can play DDO and run a plat-farming bot at the same time NAZI!


These are just a few ideas I can think of that would help me, because I could care less what the rest of you want.

Also; would be nice to have Strikeout enabled in the BBcode...wankers.

[katz]

first i was like :confused:

but then i :D

[Grenada]

first i was like :confused:

but then i :D

Yup (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuE1es1HO0k)

[Callavan]

I get the feeling ya'll like my rants more...

...because I could care less what the rest of you want.

:DKthen.:D Thanks for the lol. And yes, it would be nice to have the strikeout option in teh bbcode.

[cdemeritt]

To be honest, I think everyone loves a good rant, whether the OP is right or wrong...

Forum posts are just too boring if they don't have a good rant from time to time.

[FrancisP.Fancypants]

I wish there was an emoticon for my facial expression right now. It's sorta between concerned and perplexed, with a little confused thrown in.


I use an Xbox controller. You should start drinking at 3 in the afternoon.

[Lyniaer]

I wish there was an emoticon for my facial expression right now. It's sorta between concerned and perplexed, with a little confused thrown in.

Here you go.

http://i53.tinypic.com/deobjc.png

[KristovK]

I read your first post concerning the controller pad issue and had no legit response to it, so didn't say anything, but since you insist....

Your CHOICE to gimp yourself by using an x-box controller to play a PC game is just that, a choice you made to gimp yourself, and Turbine is under no obligation to correct YOUR bad decision making.

Simple fact, keyboard and mouse control systems far and away outperform controller pad based systems. It's the reason MicroSoft won't allow consoles and PC's to compete against each other on the Live network, nor will Sony, internal testing showed that mediocre skilled keyboard/mouse PC users made expert(people who got PAID to play console games in tourneys!) game control pad console users look like blind, drunk and naked noobs..this was letting the lower skilled players use a PC with kb/mouse while the expert consolers used their consoles and favorite controller pads by the way, it wasn't by forcing either group to use an unfamiliar control system. This ain't new by the way, it's been known for years.

In this particular case, you and your controller trying to play DDO, you see a major reason why control pads aren't used much for PC gaming, the lack of enough control interfaces to control what the game has to offer for basics, much less what the game offers for the advanced options. This is a design flaw in the CONTROL PAD, not the interface options of the game itself, the pad simply doesn't have enough hardware to deal with the number of options the software offers.

Personally, I'd suggest you look into the various kb/mouse controller rigs that companies like Razor put out if you don't like using a full kb/mouse setup, as they are designed to emulate a full kb/mouse system with a much easier to access control interface, easily customizable for any game you wish to play on a PC.

[Lyniaer]

Words.

Thanks for....that. Whatever it was. I respectfully disagree and I like using the controller and find it far more intuitive and flexible than a keyboard and mouse. I grew up playing DOS games like Wolfenstein and Blake Stone where all you needed was UDLR and the left mouse button. Todays games, including MMO's, require one to not only have a specific seating arrangement in mind in order to accompany the use of a keyboard and mouse setup, but also to remember and recall the myriad of keys and what they're mapped to; whether they're intuitively mapped or not (i.e. C for Character sheet...as opposed to V for vanish other players' names).

Sorry buddy, but the controller is used to great success by a wide variety of people and if you feel these folks are GIMPED, in your tone, then so be it. Don't play with us. Make it a 'condition' for joining your party. That's just poor form and a fairly bitter attitude, [i]sir.

Thanks for stopping by, though. Don't let the door...you know.

[KristovK]

Thanks for....that. Whatever it was. I respectfully disagree and I like using the controller and find it far more intuitive and flexible than a keyboard and mouse. I grew up playing DOS games like Wolfenstein and Blake Stone where all you needed was UDLR and the left mouse button. Todays games, including MMO's, require one to not only have a specific seating arrangement in mind in order to accompany the use of a keyboard and mouse setup, but also to remember and recall the myriad of keys and what they're mapped to; whether they're intuitively mapped or not (i.e. C for Character sheet...as opposed to V for vanish other players' names).

Sorry buddy, but the controller is used to great success by a wide variety of people and if you feel these folks are GIMPED, in your tone, then so be it. Don't play with us. Make it a 'condition' for joining your party. That's just poor form and a fairly bitter attitude, [i]sir.

Thanks for stopping by, though. Don't let the door...you know.

I guess you forgot the OTHER keyboard commands those games you played in DOS also used, because the arrow keys and left mouse button were just the start...and it's only gotten more complex as the years have passed.

Again, YOUR choice to use the improper and obviously inferior control interface device is just that, YOUR choice. And please, try again to tell me how it's better when you've already made clear, by your OWN request to have Turbine make it work more like the kb/mouse, that it's inferior and doesn't do the job. If they were so capable, PC games would be designed around them, instead of being designed around the kb/mouse interface.

This is an MMO, not Mortal Kombat, you NEED a kb and mouse to actually control the game properly, as it has more then up/down/left/right/kick/punch/block for options. Sorry you got confused on that difference, and I'm sorry the complexities of MMO interfaces are something you have issues with. I imagine there's probably plenty of games with simplistic interfaces and control schemes on that console you got the control pad from though...after all, the games on it are designed with the lack of control options that pad has.

[Lyniaer]

More...more words.

Make all the snarky comments you like. I was born with 10 fingers like a normal human being.
And you clearly never played Wolfenstein as that's all there was to it. UDLR, (Space) Interact, Mouse Look, Left Button Shoot, Right Button Reload.
In case you were raised in idiot-ville; computers have, since the AppleII, come with the option to install a "Game Port Card". What did this do, you ask? GASP! It allowed you to connect a virtual plethora of controllers similar to those of the Atari 2600 and Sega Genesis (these two being the most popular models to copy).

Game controllers are not inferior at all. They are, in fact, purposefully designed for playing any computer game imaginable. The reason the Keyboard and Mouse are defacto is because, well, you can't help but own one. Duh! Thus ensuring the maximum number of potential players are able to interface with the game. In reality, where the rest of us reside, the controller is and always will be, superior to keyboard and mouse. Sorry to have to burst your Dork Bubble but I believe your thstatithstics are butt-pulled at best.

So, bring it in, Professor. Any other knowledge of the void you'd like me spank for you or hast thou pride had enough? I can do this all weekend! Mods won't be around until Monday!

[Emizand]

I get the feeling ya'll like my rants more...

No!

[katz]

i play with a game controller! i love it!

my husband plays with a game controller! it saves his wrists! (he is borderline on getting carpal tunnel. using a controller holds that at bay. if he HAD to use a mouse and keyboard he'd never get to enjoy the game)

i know SEVERAL more people who use game controllers, including one VERY successful player in one of the top guilds on Orien


so yeah, you can take your "you're gimping yourself" and stuff it :-P (please don't infract me, this was meant in jest in the ranting theme of this post, thx)

i have mine programmed to emulate mouse movement. he has his to cycle thru all his hotbars at a button press, so yeah, you CAN do everything without touching the keys or mouse if you *really* want to

advice to the OP: don't use Turbine's built in controller support. it's not flexible enough. get Pinnacle Game Profiler. it's super flexible. programable. 4 shift keys, so you can quadruple your buttons, program in complex multi-part commands, cycling commands, mouse emulation (as i mentioned)... all kinds of stuff. in short, it's awesome.

[TekkenDevil]

I never had a problem with hotbar clutters.

-2 on bottom.
-2 on bottom right.
-2 on top.
-2 on the right, in vertical form.

And I still have comfortable amount of game-view left. I never had an issue with not enough slots either. 8 bars are more than enough, even for a caster. I got equipment on the right columns, usually just one clicky alternative to each equipment. Wands and consumables on the bottom right bars, and the skills/spells/etc. on the bottom and top bars.

If I really need something rarely used, I memorize where it is in my inv and use it manually.

I use keybinds over clicking stuff, so it's not a priority for the bars to be as in-my-face as possible.

Anyway, yeah... I just don't get the people with 16 hotbars all over their screen. I see screenshots where a Wizard has every type of spell component filling up an entire bar of his, and I just don't get it...

[katz]

I never had a problem with hotbar clutters.

play a bard or an arti

:D

i'm up to 11 bars with all my scrolls, clickies, wands, and gear swaps, and i'm only 12th :eek:

[Praya20]

To be honest, I think everyone loves a good rant, whether the OP is right or wrong...

Forum posts are just too boring if they don't have a good rant from time to time.

/Signed

[Praya20]

Also; would be nice to have Strikeout enabled in the BBcode...wankers.

I love how your thread is still open and mine get closed for soo much less XD

[TekkenDevil]

play a bard or an arti

:D

i'm up to 11 bars with all my scrolls, clickies, wands, and gear swaps, and i'm only 12th :eek:

I played a Wizard to level 20 before and, while I did have to fill up all my slots, it still never really held me back more than annoying me slightly because of having to open up the inv for something rarely used.

Then again, I rarely if ever use Scrolls, especially if it isn't for healing. Even with my Cleric I seem to always have enough Wands and SP power to go around. Even if I end up needing them, it'd be easy to make space. And again, I also limit myself to one or two replacable clicky/stat per equipment type, since I'm not a fan of micro management. Except for weapon sets which I always got like 5 of.

Also, playing an Arti now, at level 9, still have at least half of all the hotbar slots empty. I just don't need anything else equipped, really. And I'm not gimp, either, got 32 Disable Device with all boosts so I'm usually the trapmonkey in groups unless a higher level joins, 15 base con, only died 3 times so far due to terrible PuG clerics...

I really don't think having a hotbar clutter is a necessity. It's more of a choice, or possibly having gotten used to it from previous MMOs.

[katz]

I played a Wizard to level 20 before and, while I did have to fill up all my slots, it still never really held me back more than annoying me slightly because of having to open up the inv for something rarely used.



to be fair, much of the stuff on my bars is "rarely used". (i have 2 bars at the bottom that are my primary focus. where all the stuff i use on a daily basis goes.) but i'd rather have my potions and scrolls out on a bar so i can chug a curse pot on the fly after Sully has a little fit or throw a rez scroll at the cleric as i'm fleeing an angry pit fiend (been there done that) at a single click, instead of hunting thru my inventory for it :eek:
this is a fairly typical bar setup for me (https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-uhZOd40nbKg/TnVWXajb1rI/AAAAAAAABW0/_HReGJ-13es/ScreenShot00341.jpg), on my rogue. only 8 bars. adding spells adds complexity. and bars. more bars.

but to each their own. each person plays with what they are comfortable with and what works for them :D

[ReaperAlexEU]

cant you buy controllers that have several shift buttons on them to program? this would bypass the need to rely on game developers putting such features in their games. i know my age old saitek cyborg 3D joystick (its so cute, it brags about being usb!) has 2 shift buttons that could both be programmed. there must be a modern equivalent for the controller market. sure its an extra cost, but by the sounds of it a good investment for you.

as for DDO, i have no objection to extra control options being added, but personally i have no burning need for them either. i discovered the joy of mouse+keyboard back when quake 1 was new, and for a FPS game it really is far better than any other form of control (pad or joystick).

there are 2 things you need from your view in a FPS, the ability to aim accurately, and the ability to rapidly check your surroundings. controllers cant do both at the same time. the analog stick has helped a LOT, but its still not as good as a mouse. the problem is the stick is not speed capped by your hand as the mouse is, its speed capped by its movement limit. this means to go from a full 360 in 5 seconds to under 1 second you have to ramp up the sensitivity, which in turn reduces your accuracy. on a mouse however you just move your hand faster while still retaining a low sensitivity for those "BOOM headshot!" moments. i've watched FPS games on the console, and its clear to see the average level of situational awareness is lower in console matches than it is on PC matches, all because the console players can't do a 360 as fast as the PC players can, or if they can get that speed up then they will be struggling with the head shots.

so, controllers may have been great for the pre-quake games, but once quake hit with its 1:1 left-right and up-down ratio a new way to play FPS games was born (small note, duke nukem didnt have a 1:1 ratio making the up and down feel less fluid). i started with doom 1 on the keyboard only, but i'm so glad i learnt how to use the mouse for quake 1 as its obvious how much better its made me as a gamer. i'm one of those annoying DDO players who enjoys the mario land parts in quests, the reason for this is mario land 1 on the gameboy for the timing, and a mouse and keyboard to get the fine level of control needed land in the right spot.

there is a large learning curve, but once you've mastered the mouse you'll never go back (medical issues aside, my commiserations to those that have mobility issues affecting their choice of game control). i do understand why gamers have a preference for certain types of controllers, but if you look at the mechanics its clear to see why the mouse dominates the FPS games. its like the difference between those who steer round a corner in a FPS game and those who strafe round the corner. the turner exposes their full body before they can see whats round the corner, which means they often get shot at by something they havent even seen yet. in a similar manner the mouse player will be able to do 360 checks of their surroundings much faster than a pad user, the difference is even larger when you want to check behind you in a tunnel as the mouse user will spend less time looking at the wall and more time looking at either end of the tunnel. its quite possible to throw the mouse about so fast and stop in the right place to literally check your 6 as fast as you could in real life, something i've not seen any pad user do.

[mournbladereigns]

Okay, I been around a while, I think. A few of you know me in the game and most of you know me on the forums. I'm the guy that loves to rage about things. I get repped for raging! It blows my mind! Most of the replies are rag-bashing me for being a jerkhole, yet my CP lights up green. Then when I go and make a post to try to be helpful and encourage some useful engineering or feedback to the game...example:



I get nada! No replies, nothin'. I guess it was far too melancholy of a post than most of you come to expect from me. So, here's what I'll do. I'm gonna re-write this in this thread in true Lyniaer Rant style. All for you guys! :D

I'm starting this thread to try to provoke Turbine into doings something mildly useful with their illegitimate concept of a keymapping system for the convenience of those who use a controller with limited button options. Right now I use an Xbox 360 Wireless Controller and it's eliminated my need to bury the screen under hotbars like all the long-time players do who thoroughly enjoy molesting their mouse to the point the paint's been rubbed off. I'm gonna list below the kind of asterisk-asterisk-asterisk-asterisk I have to go through just to make some kind of effective use out of this pathetic waste of a perfectly viable location in the options menu for, oh, I don't know...ENABLING DRUID MAYBE;

1) Can only use hotbar areas 1-8. While I'm fuming with rage with this to the point where 9&0 can be used for things like Phiarlans Pendant of Time and Metamagics I never turn off and heal scrolls on my cleric because I'm so awesome I never use them... I use Hatswitch LURD for 1234 and Modifier(L1)+LURD for 5-8.
2) Can only target party members on the left side of the list using Mod+XYBA(R3) and no button to target myself, because everyone on the right side of the list I generally dislike and enjoy watching them die.
3) The triggers (left for block, right for attack) often get the game stuck, causing UI glitches and occasionally bugging attacks all together. If it wasn't for the shoddy workmanship of this game's code or just an oversight of the penguin-humping developers who can't seem to notice these simple breaks in code; maybe due to some kind of optical arthritis where they're rendered blind every time it f^in' rains.
4) Cannot use hirelings at all because all of my buttons are used up. I managed to eek out a combo for telling my mentally challenged pet to interact, but other than that, he gets away with doing what he wishes lest I drop the controller in favor of the keyboard for a vital split second that can get me greased; (All Telero's Fault).
5)Hiccups between Keymap #1 and Keymap #2 while 'in' the game. Like, I use the hatswitches for my hotbar buttons, but I also use them to cycle through NPC dialogue and loot items from chests. If my mouse-look is on, I can't do either of those and it inadvertently uses a hotbar button!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111

Here's what needs to be done BECAUSE ONLY MY IDEAS MAKE SENSE RAGE.smallperiod
1) A controller-only option that disables the keyboard for any other purpose but the mouse and the chat window. I so love to think I'm in the chat window when suddenly my character sheet and LFM window pops up, everyone's name disappears and my character starts running brain-first into the nearest solid object capable of invoking a penalty to the intelligence modifier.
2) A controller-ANGRY keymap device that allows you to easily and intuitively design your controller the way you want it; including 4-axis button assignments for the thumbsticks (when using them with a modifier? That would give me 8 buttons in one thumbstick) - more buttons than Cubethulu could eat in a single sitting! Take that SirSquishAlot.
3) A "cycling" target-next and target-previous party member. By cycling I mean you can hold down the button and it will quickly spin through party members or available targets without having to tap the button 11 times to get to the last party member on the list on the right.
4) A 2nd or even 3rd modifier button option which will allow us to map the same button for 2 or 3 different purposes. So I can play DDO and run a plat-farming bot at the same time NAZI!


These are just a few ideas I can think of that would help me, because I could care less what the rest of you want.

Also; would be nice to have Strikeout enabled in the BBcode...wankers.

Ok, the fact that you use a console controller to Play PC game, pretty much invalidates any reason to regard your post in a positive light. It was TL:DR so I a going to go ahead and assume you PVP to.

so

/notsigned

[KristovK]

Make all the snarky comments you like. I was born with 10 fingers like a normal human being.
And you clearly never played Wolfenstein as that's all there was to it. UDLR, (Space) Interact, Mouse Look, Left Button Shoot, Right Button Reload.
In case you were raised in idiot-ville; computers have, since the AppleII, come with the option to install a "Game Port Card". What did this do, you ask? GASP! It allowed you to connect a virtual plethora of controllers similar to those of the Atari 2600 and Sega Genesis (these two being the most popular models to copy).

Game controllers are not inferior at all. They are, in fact, purposefully designed for playing any computer game imaginable. The reason the Keyboard and Mouse are defacto is because, well, you can't help but own one. Duh! Thus ensuring the maximum number of potential players are able to interface with the game. In reality, where the rest of us reside, the controller is and always will be, superior to keyboard and mouse. Sorry to have to burst your Dork Bubble but I believe your thstatithstics are butt-pulled at best.

So, bring it in, Professor. Any other knowledge of the void you'd like me spank for you or hast thou pride had enough? I can do this all weekend! Mods won't be around until Monday!

Yer funny, I'll give ya that. Think I see why people like your 'rants'...wouldn't be proud of that if I were you.

Your claims to the contrary, the kb/mouse vs control pad issue has been settled more then a few times over the past decade, I even cited you the most well known comparative testing done to date by MicroSoft, google it yourself if you don't believe me. It's the reason MS won't allow cross platform console/PC gaming on the LIVE network, it's bad for their console sales across the board when people discover that the control pad is subpar for gaming. And you could always go back and read the reviews of the releases of PC games as console versions, where the most common complaint by all reviewers was the lack of control the control pads give.

BTW, game controller cards..they were to add joysticks to your PC, not Atari and Sega controller pads, mainly due to the fact that the early PC games came in 1 of 3 flavors...flight sims, text adventures, and stand up 8bit console ports which, at that time, used a joystick. MY first computer games were Star Trek on the DEC mainframe supercomputer my old man sold time on in the 70s, followed by such favorites as Zork on the C64 and Bard's Tales on an 8088, and later, as the tech progressed to allow better graphics, RotT, Wolfenstein, Doom, X-Wing/TIE series by Lucas Arts, as well as the Secret Weapons series they did, MechWarrior and MW2 and so on. I remember the original 2d side scrollers as well, they were fun and quite simplistic and a joystick was great for playing them. But that was because the kb/mouse were actually pretty lousy for gaming due to mechanical issues. Mice had trackballs back then, remember? Constant movement in any direction was impossible, so you used a kb or joystick, but kb's weren't really good for anything but straight line movement in 1 of 4 possible directions, so the joystick was your best bet. But that's 30+ years ago too, mice and kb's have come a long way since then, and they far and away exceed anything a control pad from a console system can do.

And for those with carpel tunnel issues..simple things I learned over a decade ago when I started to exhibit symptoms of it while gaming online for a living..change your kb/mouse positions to allow more natural angles for your wrists, get a gelpad to support your wrists, and get up off your arse and move around every 20 or so minutes, really helps with neck and lower back issues you probably aren't even aware you are suffering from. Use of the console controller will actually cause you more problems that aren't so easily solved, as there's no fix for how the controller fits the hand and the issues that causes.

[IWZincedge]

I can do this all weekend! Mods won't be around until Monday!

I'd like to contest that theory.