Uh oh, feat selection time again...

[Qaliya]

Every three levels that fun time when you get to pick a feat. But also have to make a tough choice. Especially now that I am turning level 15 and getting a feat changed by Fred is soon to become very expensive.

I'm a 13/1/1 cleric/rogue/fighter who solos most of the time. When soloing, I do most of my damage via melee against regular monsters. I'd like to cast more and figured I would at higher levels, but it just consumes SP too fast. I use most of my SP on long-term and short-term buffs for me and my hireling, and occasional casts of BB, cometfall, divine power and searing light. Also use my radiant burst capability a lot. The only time I really let loose with offensive spells is bosses or when I know I'm near a shrine. I've tried to do more casting offensively but I'd run out of SP in a matter of minutes.

When in a group I try to balance melee with buffs/healing. Don't cast as much offensively.

Current feats: Toughness, Augment Summoning, Empower Healing, Power Attack, Extend, Maximize.

Under consideration:
- Empower: Obvious, would increase offensive spells for a cost, and radiant servant boosts for free (IIRC).
- Quicken: Everyone says I need this but I'm unconvinced. I rarely have issues getting spells off.
- THF: Probably not the direction I want to go as I get to higher levels, but I can see the benefit.
- Mental Toughness: 100 SP or so is nice. Though really I'm not sure it's worth a feat.
- Toughness (again): Same concept. More HP is always nice, but worth a slot?
- Extra Turning: Seems odd, but an extra four radiant bursts per rest is a LOT of extra healing and undead killing. My charisma is fairly low and so I currently only have about 8 per rest fully buffed, and they do restore but only slowly.

Any thoughts on these or others I may not have considered? Thanks.

[r3dl4nce]

Remove Augment summoning (totally useless) and take empower and quicken. You'll love quicken in high end content. And if you melee to, quicken is great!
Or if you think ~100 sp can be useful for you, take MT, but with radiant servant empowered bursts, I'd go with empower

[aennae]

I have the same issues with sp especially in shrine unfriendly places.
I gave up extend since usually i m slow (trying to find my way etc ...) so i usually try to buf on demand, as example i will start with protection of element and look which values goes down the most (or determine what spells mob use) and cast the associated resistance. Depending on the situation i regret the lack of extend, especially when i know the place well so that an extended divine power would last for many fight and extended buf would go till the next shrine.

I have toughness and mental toughness, but if you a dwarf you may not need it. Even with those feats i have only 1100 mana after rest (holding power 9 item).

I have quicken but it's off on anything but Heal that i use as a panic button. It saved my but more than once but i rarely need to use the panic button.

Radiant servant 2 is nice, first it lasts like 1 mn and tick for 15-23 second it increase empower heal buff up to 75%.

I dont have augment summoning (even if it seems nice). On difficult figth i often don't have a summon because he would prevent the mobs to go in my barrier (wish we had a /pet passive command). On medium figth i love djinn/efreetis since on a mass command they will bring the dps i miss.

Empower + Maximize is probably overkill especially with an efficiency item in hand. But since boss figth are often close to a shrine it can be very nice. Lot of boss regenerate, so what you need is a very high damage spike. In such case empower/maximize BB + cometfall can really make the figth very short.

So if your mana pool is around 1K would go for mental toughness first, if it is 1500 you probably don't need it.

Note that i rely more on offensive spells than you since i cannot use two hander and power attack. I may reincarnate and get 1 level of fighter or 2 monks levels or 1 second rogue level. I m wondering ;-) .

What is clear is the higher i get the lesser is the relative amount of damage my melee does. I wonder if it is due to the lack of fighter level (wish i could try power attack and great sword 1 hour). My cleric 4/fighter 1 is very good at meleing but she is too low to compare. Indeed when i was 5 my melee was much more important than now.

I saw some fighter cleric doing really good melee damage, even past 10 but they were really twinked (green color 2 hander and so on).

[Gnorbert]

Remove Augment summoning (totally useless) and take empower and quicken. You'll love quicken in high end content. And if you melee to, quicken is great!


Absolutely agree, change Augment summoning before the cost goes up and take both of those. If you are meleeing alot then you may want to change empower for Imp Crit for your preferred weapon type.

[Qaliya]

Remove Augment summoning (totally useless) and take empower and quicken. You'll love quicken in high end content. And if you melee to, quicken is great!
Or if you think ~100 sp can be useful for you, take MT, but with radiant servant empowered bursts, I'd go with empower

I know Augment Summoning gets dumped on, but I'm quite happy with it. I have a hireling and a summon out nearly 100% of the time, and the extra boosts it gives them is quite good. Having my hireling start out with 260 HP instead of 214 or so is a big difference (especially since they are idiots.)

Also, I can't replace it with anything spellcasting-related anyway, because it was taken at my rogue level. I could only take something like another Toughness feat, and I'd rather have AS than another 20 HP. The only way I'd change my mind is if I got something like Epid Roderic's Wand, which includes it.

Thanks for the reply.

[Gnorbert]

I know Augment Summoning gets dumped on, but I'm quite happy with it. I have a hireling and a summon out nearly 100% of the time, and the extra boosts it gives them is quite good. Having my hireling start out with 260 HP instead of 214 or so is a big difference.

Also, I can't replace it with anything spellcasting-related anyway, because it was taken at my rogue level. I could only take something like another Toughness feat, and I'd rather have AS than another 20 HP. The only way I'd change my mind is if I got something like Epid Roderic's Wand, which includes it.

Thanks for the reply.

Was rogue taken at first level? if so then that does throw a wrench in there. But if rogue was taken after you already had a blue bar then you would still be able to take a metamagic in its place.

[r3dl4nce]

I know Augment Summoning gets dumped on, but I'm quite happy with it. I have a hireling and a summon out nearly 100% of the time, and the extra boosts it gives them is quite good. Having my hireling start out with 260 HP instead of 214 or so is a big difference.Yes, you can think it's a big difference. Then you'll start make raids when no hireling is allowed. And your feat is wasted. Don't judge at 15, you can only judge at 20. And in endgame (well, really, from 1 to 20, the only class that can make use of Augment Summoning is Artificer) that feat is wasted.

Having taken that at level 1 rogue, you should make 2 swap, augment summon for toughness (toughness is ok at level 1) so you get 2 toughness, then if you want to remove one just swap 2nd toughness for empower or MT. At 15 take Quicken

[Qaliya]

Yes, rogue was my first level, for the skill points. r3dl4nce, your advice makes sense for most players, I'd bet, but not for me, because I am not going to spend a lot of time grinding epics at level 20. I will probably spend some time at 20, mixing soloing and grouping, then TR into something else when I get bored of that and am ready to relevel.

aennae, my SP total buffed up will be just barely 1000 when I level up. It gets to around 935 right now.

I'm also trying to decide if I should spend the enhancement points to bump up my wisdom by 2 more. It would take 10 points to do it (4 for the human feat, 6 for the cleric). Not sure it is worth the cost.

Thanks for the replies.

[r3dl4nce]

because I am not going to spend a lot of time grinding epics at level 20Did I talk about epics? Before doing epics, you need to get gear, and you get gear from raids. Tharnes Goggles to raise your dps, greensteel weapons for dps and item for +150sp, tod rings, and so on. And as I said, in raid you won't summon hireling, so why having a wasted feat?

However, as you like, you talk about TR'ing, but you don't want to prepare equipment before TR'ing (Greensteel at level 11-12 is great for a TR) so what is the point in TR'ing ?

Mah. Have fun.

[Bobthesponge]

OP,

Have you used the free feat quest yet? That should mitigate any cost because I agree with most that augment summoning is a waste. As you get more levels and do more high end content you will be in more raids that prevent hirelings and often don't want a summon either, such as shroud after part 2.

I would grab quicken and either a second toughness or empower. mental toughness does not stack with enhancements like toughness does so it is generally a waste as well.

[r3dl4nce]

mental toughness does not stack with enhancements Wrong.

[morticianjohn]

Take a rogue level for evasion if you think you can pull a decent reflex save.

Quicken you may not need for most solo play, with dungeon scaling a good concentration score is enough on normal however, if you plan to group for raids and such then you may want the feat to toggle on for certain difficult parts of quests and raids.

I have THF on my FvS and you can really notice a difference when soloing. It's a huge boost to DPS when you have 5 or more enemies taking glancing blows. Still I would rather have empower if it came to a decision between these two.

[Zirun]

If you don't plan on doing serious raiding, endgame elites, or other group stuff like that, you'll probably never need Quicken. Ever.

I'd take Empower. Even though it can be costly, things like a Maximized and Empowered Blade Barrier can really rip through quests, especially ones with easy access to shrines. It also helps a lot with boss fights. If you ever decide to do Zawabi's Revenge, for instance, the extra damage on Divine Punishment can easily mean the difference between completing and getting ripped to shreds.

You could also take Improved Critical, which would be a substantial increase in your physical damage. More than you'd get from THF, I believe. I think IC would be the only other option I consider.

Which of the two you choose would depend on how much you melee vs. how much you cast, and how much trouble you have with bosses and large groups of enemies. You don't have a whole lot of SP, but gathering up large groups of enemies (getting orange or red dungeon alert), plopping down a Blade Barrier, and blocking can clear a lot of a dungeon for a relatively small cost.

In the end, it's up to you. Get what works best for you. If you have to, you can always change it later.

[aennae]

Yes, rogue was my first level, for the skill points. r3dl4nce, your advice makes sense for most players, I'd bet, but not for me, because I am not going to spend a lot of time grinding epics at level 20. I will probably spend some time at 20, mixing soloing and grouping, then TR into something else when I get bored of that and am ready to relevel.

aennae, my SP total buffed up will be just barely 1000 when I level up. It gets to around 935 right now.

I'm also trying to decide if I should spend the enhancement points to bump up my wisdom by 2 more. It would take 10 points to do it (4 for the human feat, 6 for the cleric). Not sure it is worth the cost.

Thanks for the replies.

Well if your mana is 1K go for mental toughness.

Wisdom is not helping much for mana (it helps a bit -- around 2 mana per level for 2 wisdom points) but it make your spell harders (increase the save). So if you use greater command, cometfall a lot wisdom will help.

Don't build your toon for high end raid, build it for you. If later at 20 you want to raid a lesser reincarnation will do it. If you solo empower + maximize is likely yo use too much sp.

Be also aware that fred is get more and more greedy (there is a table on wiki). It's better to swap feats before leveling.

I also agree with people saying that quicken is nice, especially if you melee a lot. Quicken prevent interuption so it allows you to use heal with high efficiency (the higher your max hp the higher the effiiciency).

[Schmoe]

Edit:

I went back and re-read the OP, and I realize now that you already have Maximize. Replace "Maximize" with "Empower" in the advice below. Sorry for the confusion!

-------------------------------------------------------------------

If you want to cast more, take Maximize at 15th, and Quicken at 18th.

The best of all possible worlds is the following:

1.) Swap your rogue feat to Toughness
2.) Swap the Toughness you already had (not from the rogue level) into Maximize.
3.) Take Improved Critical for your 15th level feat
4.) Take Quicken for your 18th level feat.

Do steps 1 and 2 before leveling up.

Not having Improved Critical for your primary weapon is a real hit to your damage output. You say that you would like to cast more, but frankly it sounds like you don't have the stats or the equipment for it, so you're still going to need to rely on your melee damage and use your casting just for supplementing.

[Bobthesponge]

Wrong.

how so? you need toughness feat to unlock the toughness enhancements and they all stack. mental toughness is a standalone feat.

[r3dl4nce]

how so? you need toughness feat to unlock the toughness enhancements and they all stack. mental toughness is a standalone feat.

Yes. You said mental toughness does not stack with enhancements. That is plain wrong. Mental Toughness give ~100 SP. Enhancements with +SP have nothing to do with Mental toughness. You can get +~100SP from MT and +X SP from enhancements.

[aennae]

OP,

Have you used the free feat quest yet? That should mitigate any cost because I agree with most that augment summoning is a waste. As you get more levels and do more high end content you will be in more raids that prevent hirelings and often don't want a summon either, such as shroud after part 2.

I would grab quicken and either a second toughness or empower. mental toughness does not stack with enhancements like toughness does so it is generally a waste as well.

Well she enjoys soloing, and since improved summoned applies to hirelings it seems a nice choice.

I would like to know for how much you hit, my 1 fighter cleric 4 does 50+ on crits and i do usually 10-30 + procs. My BB already can go up to 300 so it's a huge difference. The main problem is that many mobs are not easily draw in the barrier. Many will stop and take a bow, casters will not come gladly, evasion mobs may take no damage, this implies playing with line of sight. There are place where a single BB can do 20000 damage in other you will just waste it.

In most group it does not work since melee are rarely smart enough to pull back and kite. So i use commands or cometfall.

[honkuimushi]

how so? you need toughness feat to unlock the toughness enhancements and they all stack. mental toughness is a standalone feat.

Yes, Mental Toughness is a standalone feat, but the spellpoints you get from Mental Toughness and the spell points you get from Enhancements stack.

[Qaliya]

Wow, lots of comments! Let me reply to some of them.

First, I do already have IC:Slashing. Forgot about it. Sorry.


Have you used the free feat quest yet?

Yeah, stupid newbie mistake. :/


Take a rogue level for evasion if you think you can pull a decent reflex save.

I've already ruled this out. My reflex save stinks and I don't want to give up another 9th level spell slot and some-odd 100 SP.


I have THF on my FvS and you can really notice a difference when soloing. It's a huge boost to DPS when you have 5 or more enemies taking glancing blows. Still I would rather have empower if it came to a decision between these two.

I'm leaning that way as well.


1.) Swap your rogue feat to Toughness
2.) Swap the Toughness you already had (not from the rogue level) into Maximize.

Can't. Toughness and AS are both level 1, and I don't have a caster level there (then?)


Mah. Have fun.

Funny that you say it this way, because that's exactly what I'm aiming to do, while what you describe sounds more like a job than a game.

I spent years playing an MMO with ungodly amounts of grinding because I talked myself into believing it was "fun", and I thought there was no better option. DDO has been a revelation specifically because it doesn't involve grinding, and I plan to keep it that way. Sorry, but I hear guildmates talking about doing the same quests over and over again to get ingredients to make some uber item and, well, that doesn't sound like fun to me.

For me the point of D&D, both pen and paper, and DDO, is to enjoy the adventures and building your character. I got to level 15 as a noob on a first life character without a +10 greensteel whatchamacallit of uberdestruction, so I'm pretty sure I can do it again on a TR.

"The point of a journey is not to arrive." -- RUSH

[Bobthesponge]

Yes. You said mental toughness does not stack with enhancements. That is plain wrong. Mental Toughness give ~100 SP. Enhancements with +SP have nothing to do with Mental toughness. You can get +~100SP from MT and +X SP from enhancements.

perhaps "stack" was the wrong term.

let me clarify - toughness "stacks" with enhancements because you need it to unlock the enhancemnts and they all stack with each other and with itself if you want to take it again. some fighter builds take it 7 times.

mental toughness does not stack because you can take it independently of the SP enhancements and can not take it more than once. you can take improved mental toughness as another feat, but again, only once.

[aennae]

My reflex save is almost as high as my will and fortitude save. You can get a +5 reflex save item doing lord plaza quests. I probably screwed at creation taking 14 dext ( i refused to pay 3 per rank on wisdom str and constitution) but it has some benefit.

[Qaliya]

Currently my saves are +14/+6/+17 F/R/W.

[r3dl4nce]

Funny that you say it this way, because that's exactly what I'm aiming to do, while what you describe sounds more like a job than a game.No, I'm just telling you to play a character to play and see the 100% of the game. If you prefer a character who will not see the 100% of DDO because it is not well optimized, well, it's your choice, if you are having fun in playing only a part of the game, go for it. If you prefer having a character able to beat 100% of the game, you MUST do raids for gear and optimize your character


"The point of a journey is not to arrive." -- RUSHThe point of levelling a character in DDO, IMHO, is seeing how much powerful he can get in endgame. If you are not interested in endgame, sticking with low-med levels, nor epic content, and so on, it's your choice and your way to play and have fun. But you are missing to see parts of the game. I am VIP and I'd hate to not get the 100% of what I pay. For you it may be different.

So, have fun.

[Schmoe]

First, I do already have IC:Slashing. Forgot about it. Sorry.
<snip>

1.) Swap your rogue feat to Toughness
2.) Swap the Toughness you already had (not from the rogue level) into Maximize.

Can't. Toughness and AS are both level 1, and I don't have a caster level there (then?)



It sounds like it's settled, then. Take Empower at 15th and Quicken at 18th. Honestly, at 15th level your concentration should be sufficient that you won't lose too many spells to interruption. By 18th, you will definitely want Quicken, especially if you solo a lot.

[Qaliya]

I'm interested in having fun, not getting 100% of the game "beaten". Thus, I will only do the raid-grinding-for-equipment routine if I'm having fun doing it. From what I've seen and heard so far, it sounds like one of the least appealing parts of the game to me.

To each his own.

Thanks for all the advice. Seems like Empower is what is being recommended most. I'm still hesitant because of how much meleeing I do at this point. I do like that it will provide a "free" boost on bursts but I won't likely use it much on actual spells except bosses. OTOH, dying at the end of a quest sucks. :)

One other issue is I realize I am one point of STR short for THF. I'd have to use a tome or something.

[JoshuJushin]

I'm not sure if someone said this before but as you level and your meleeing abilities start to wane you may want to look into dropping your power attack as you may not be able to afford the -5 penalty with a lower bab and could use that feat slot to augment your spellcasting abilities.