Dark monk vs barb dps... or neither?

[mikameow]

I was wondering if a well built, played, and geared dark monk with ninja spy can out dps a well built, played, and geared frenzied barb?

Also i was wondering if melee is still even a viable option for endgame iv so much about artificers and wf sorcs being so op i was wondering if melee is a thing of the past and i should role one of those instead? I just don't know.

Pls tell me what i should play for my aggresive but not zergy play style that want's highest dps possible by any means.

Finally if artificer is the best right now tell me if you think there will be upcoming nerfs ty in advance

[Angelus_dead]

I was wondering if a well built, played, and geared dark monk with ninja spy can out dps a well built, played, and geared frenzied barb?
Monk abilities can't work with a greatsword, so no.


Also i was wondering if melee is still even a viable option for endgame iv so much about artificers and wf sorcs being so op i was wondering if melee is a thing of the past and i should role one of those instead?
If you think that Artificer is overpowered then you should probably back up and reconsider your sources and what you're trying to do.

The Artificer class would only seem overpowered if you compare it against something that is very weak. For example, next to some permadeath characters (who intentionally limit themselves in many ways), Artificer features might be much stronger.



Pls tell me what i should play for my aggresive but not zergy play style that want's highest dps possible by any means.
Well, Sorc if you want to do 4000 in one blast, but for a more useful answer you'd have to provide more details. For example, what level 20 characters do you have already?

[Alex301]

Monks do best against targets with high fortification. Unfortunately there aren't a lot of enemies with this, although they should be nice in the new quests.

And melee is definitely viable but your role in some groups may simply be limited to taking down the boss. Well geared/played casters will be taking care of the trash. I wouldn't worry about artificers stealing your kills either :rolleyes:

[Dwarfo]

for an aggresive playstyle where you dont like zerging and actually use healers, barbarians are the best, espeically if well played and well built.

ESOS + CRAPLOAD OF OTHER EPIC GEAR = 1000+ crits.

[elg582]

I was wondering if a well built, played, and geared dark monk with ninja spy can out dps a well built, played, and geared frenzied barb?

Against what? Anything the eSoS works against (no fort or DR), monks can't keep up; against DR, it is close; against fort, monks win every time.

For what matters (current end game bosses), it is very close and much more dependent on gear than class or even race.




Also i was wondering if melee is still even a viable option for endgame iv so much about artificers and wf sorcs being so op i was wondering if melee is a thing of the past and i should role one of those instead? I just don't know.

They will not let any class become completely obsolete, and there is nothing wrong with melees, currently, except perhaps the need for ridiculous amounts of gear on most builds.



Pls tell me what i should play for my aggresive but not zergy play style that want's highest dps possible by any means.

Lol, play what you like; I am in the grey area between what different people call either fast or zerg, but I play monks almost exclusively. At the same time, a sprinting barbarian is amazing, especially at lower levels.



Finally if artificer is the best right now tell me if you think there will be upcoming nerfs ty in advance

There WILL be nerfs :)

As always, IMNSHO and YMMV.

[Ecoski]

Don't try to compete with a fully kitted out barb for dps, that's their one real speciality. Monks get very high saves, improved evasion, some fun stuns, a high damage burst strike or even more stuns, and more utility than a barb could ever get. On top of all that you still deal a massive amount of damage too, and get the ability to say "Yes, I did just kill that room full of 15 giants, WITH MY BARE HANDS". It's the reason to play monk :D

[ainmosni]

fig 1:

http://appleadayproject.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/apple-full2.jpg


fig 2:

http://www.bonappetit.com/images/tips_tools_ingredients/ingredients/ttar_orange_01_h_launch.jpg

[goodspeed]

Well first, arti's/anything with a ranged weapon = forget it.

Next ya the sorc can out dmg you. They can also drop when a worthwhile raid boss decides to open up hell on them robot or not.

Now that that's outa the way. The two are so different theirs to much to compare. One has any given array of debuffs, avoidance, the other buffs, dmg buffs, hp. Once has a further reach the other does not. One does quicker base dmg the other crits much higher.

Then their's the mob itself. Does it have high fort, does it save higher, does it have true seeing, what attacks does it do, theirs just mounds and mounds of variables. The answer of which is better can't be answered. Hell the answer of which is better most of the time can't be answered. And on the scenario's where you could break it down id prolly be close anyway.

long 23 page thread short, you either like to swing that huge weapon around or you like to brawl or swing smaller weapons around. That's it.

[Carpone]

I was wondering if a well built, played, and geared dark monk with ninja spy can out dps a well built, played, and geared frenzied barb?

Also i was wondering if melee is still even a viable option for endgame iv so much about artificers and wf sorcs being so op i was wondering if melee is a thing of the past and i should role one of those instead? I just don't know.

Pls tell me what i should play for my aggresive but not zergy play style that want's highest dps possible by any means.

Finally if artificer is the best right now tell me if you think there will be upcoming nerfs ty in advance
I play both a barbarian and a monk with more than 300 raid completions each. Melee are absolutely viable for endgame. Each are better at certain roles, but I wouldn't blink at bringing either to an elite or epic raid as tier 1 DPS.

[Shade]

Monk with ftr splash for haste boost:
Ultimate 100% fort dps, but only for short burst (until hastes are out)
This is due to the incredibly synergy of unarmed strike and haste boost.. You attack insanely fast like you drank a concentrated haste potion, infused with plutomium.

Poor vs critable targets. Tho nothing too far behind.

Monk is also by far the most difficult melee class to play at the top levels. The amount of buttons you need to be pressing (dont even try to click) is pretty insane, few players can pull it off with near flawless precision.

BBN: Ultimate sustained DPS, and works well versus ALL targets.
Frenzy and cleave never runs out as long as your healer has heal scrolls, or you have sf pots.
Rage can last for 20-40 min depending on build.
Boosts are limited as any, but a HO bbn 18/2 can have 10 dmg boost, 10 haste boost and 10 spritn boosts (actually 12 with kensai neck, tho i dont recommend that), so running out is quite hardm and all 3 types of boosts are very powerful DPS boosts in there own way (yes even sprint, for quests involving a lot of running).

Ftr: similar burst dps as bbn, but not effective against 100% fort targets, or ones with DR they cant bypass, as Kensai can focuses too heavily on one weapon. (EG they most spec slash, so they generally suck vs skeletons/lichs as they arent good with blunt weaponry)
Bit behind in sustained.
Has other advantages to make up for it.

[gavijal]

Monk with ftr splash for haste boost:
Ultimate 100% fort dps, but only for short burst (until hastes are out)
This is due to the incredibly synergy of unarmed strike and haste boost.. You attack insanely fast like you drank a concentrated haste potion, infused with plutomium.

Poor vs critable targets. Tho nothing too far behind.

Monk is also by far the most difficult melee class to play at the top levels. The amount of buttons you need to be pressing (dont even try to click) is pretty insane, few players can pull it off with near flawless precision.

BBN: Ultimate sustained DPS, and works well versus ALL targets.
Frenzy and cleave never runs out as long as your healer has heal scrolls, or you have sf pots.
Rage can last for 20-40 min depending on build.
Boosts are limited as any, but a HO bbn 18/2 can have 10 dmg boost, 10 haste boost and 10 spritn boosts (actually 12 with kensai neck, tho i dont recommend that), so running out is quite hardm and all 3 types of boosts are very powerful DPS boosts in there own way (yes even sprint, for quests involving a lot of running).

Ftr: similar burst dps as bbn, but not effective against 100% fort targets, or ones with DR they cant bypass, as Kensai can focuses too heavily on one weapon. (EG they most spec slash, so they generally suck vs skeletons/lichs as they arent good with blunt weaponry)
Bit behind in sustained.
Has other advantages to make up for it.

So for 2wf Knopesh - barb or fighter?

[Shade]

So for 2wf Knopesh - barb or fighter?

I really recommend THF for bbns these days by far.

But if ur set on khopesh, either works well.

BBN if u want better overall dps, while maintaining good defenses.
Ftr if u want better combat tactics (can fit improved trip, sunder, stun, sap, etc), while being less reliant on healing as ur dps doesnt involve hurting yourself

Ftr stalwart builds are also VERY ideal endgame tanks now with the MASSIVE upgrades they just go. So thats another great choice. DPS suffers a bit, but you gain tons of hitpoints, dr, ac, etc.. And for TWF khopesh it works great as you can TWF when its time to dps, then SnB when its time to tank.

[eulogy098]

My dark monk, at its best was not even close to my Barbs at his medium. They were nearly equally geared.

6d6 vicious damage and monsterous base damage along with now 25% damage boost is just too much to overcome , even on 100% fort targets. Barbs are not as reliant on crits as some people are suggesting. frenzy3 19-20 crit multiplers are the icing on the cake, not the cake its self. My dark monk suffered more from fort then my barb, as he lost his Helf sneak attack and prestige sneak attacks.

If multiple targets are around the barbarian has so much higher dps then the monk that the monk may as well not even be calculated at all. As someone suggested it is kinda like comparing apples to oranges. Although I would more compare it as a 50 Cal machine gun vs a 22 Rifle.

I'm guessing anyone that's even remotely suggesting that a Dark Monk can be even a fifty-percentile of a Barbs DPS simply hasn't really played both.

In fact my Dark Monks dps was so pale in comparison to my Barb that I ended up respecing him into Light. Why bother aiming for max dps when your max isnt even close. Lights utility and cc are much more valuable imo.

[Taimasan]

Monk with ftr splash for haste boost:
Ultimate 100% fort dps, but only for short burst (until hastes are out)
This is due to the incredibly synergy of unarmed strike and haste boost.. You attack insanely fast like you drank a concentrated haste potion, infused with plutomium.

Poor vs critable targets. Tho nothing too far behind.

Monk is also by far the most difficult melee class to play at the top levels. The amount of buttons you need to be pressing (dont even try to click) is pretty insane, few players can pull it off with near flawless precision.

BBN: Ultimate sustained DPS, and works well versus ALL targets.
Frenzy and cleave never runs out as long as your healer has heal scrolls, or you have sf pots.
Rage can last for 20-40 min depending on build.
Boosts are limited as any, but a HO bbn 18/2 can have 10 dmg boost, 10 haste boost and 10 spritn boosts (actually 12 with kensai neck, tho i dont recommend that), so running out is quite hardm and all 3 types of boosts are very powerful DPS boosts in there own way (yes even sprint, for quests involving a lot of running).

Ftr: similar burst dps as bbn, but not effective against 100% fort targets, or ones with DR they cant bypass, as Kensai can focuses too heavily on one weapon. (EG they most spec slash, so they generally suck vs skeletons/lichs as they arent good with blunt weaponry)
Bit behind in sustained.
Has other advantages to make up for it.

You know what, I like that comment. Maybe your starting to rub off on me Slim Shady. +1

[Taimasan]

It all depends on the player. Monk is one of those high irl dexterity and quick thinking to do well. For example when im on Sarlona enjoying a few adult beverages as I game....nothing to extreme. Long story short when im drunk I think im playing awesome but I send up with %5 of kills in a epic which is alot lower than normal. On my barb I can be trashed to the max and just swing away in a blind rage to deal the most damage. This is what I love about the ddo combat system it is active, you feel like you are your character. I like to fancy myself that DDO is sort of a fps sometimes, anyhow. The bottom line is, all classes require some of your own drive and spirit to really unlock your path. I wonder if the devs predicted all of this or are they just surprisingly watching it unfold,; hehe, to be a fly on the wall..

[NaturalHazard]

for an aggresive playstyle where you dont like zerging and actually use healers, barbarians are the best, espeically if well played and well built.

ESOS + CRAPLOAD OF OTHER EPIC GEAR = 1000+ crits.

yeah but a sorc or wizard can do big dps 2, and dont need a ESOS +CRAPLOAD of epic gear to be pretty effective, and most don't need a jhealzer either.

Heck even a favoured soul.

Just saying I know people with 200+ completions without a ESOS OP, thats all, if you dont mind the time to grind the gear great, go for it. Alchemical weapons look solid as well. And there are other alternatives.