zzzZZ

[DeltaBravo]

Is it just me or have (most) of the raid boss fights not just gone long and boring rather then made it more of a challenge ?

I mean yes they take longer time so people with SP cant spam heal and cant Spam dots i guess unlesh they want to use pots. But really i just think most of the raid bosses now are even mroe borring. Is it just me ?

cheers
DB

[Seikojin]

The problem is about direction. The raid bosses pre u11 either have to be completely reworked, or just toughened.

In most mmo's they just toughen old bosses as they make newer, more challenging ones. Not hp/fort tougher, but actual abilities that make them a challenge.

If you take the release time for each raid boss, you will find for that time, those bosses were unique challenges for the builds and gear at the time. But now, most f those old school challenges are no more because the gear/abilities/capabilites of our players far exceed them.

The only real way to fix a catch 22 like that is lock out players X levels above the highest quest level. In this case, Elite. So say, tempest spine elite. Lvl 12. You cannot enter the quest on elite or any lower difficulty if you are... How many levels over? What would be the right call? If it is for TS, would that formulaic expression work for DQ? If you can't, then you have to tailor the lockout on every raid, and then that too can cause bugs. And what about epic difficulty? That too has to be worked, because it breaks that limit.

It is a hard thing to do.

Try lord of the blades and master artificer. They are the newest raids and should present the most challenge up to date.

[biggin]

Agreed. All these boss fights just got a lot more boring. The only one that wasn't was reaver, and I liked it boring. I didn't like having to stand there beating on him the whole time he was lighting the orbs. Ten percent more HP on him and I think we'll see 'know the raid, no noobs, link t3 gs weapon' in a level 14 raid.

The one thing 'almost' every healer in game hated was being a pure healbot in raids. Now we are back to square one. In truth ran a eVelah with 3 healers and they still had a ton of SP left (really good group), but I noticed they reserved their SP all the way to about 25% when they started to dump it.

And also with these new raids and the HP inflation on old ones, it seems I'm going to need multiple sets of weapons as you quickly wear the normal set out fast. They don't always break but I actually got a 'worn' message fighting the reaver. Just bla all around.

[biggin]

The problem is about direction. The raid bosses pre u11 either have to be completely reworked, or just toughened.

In most mmo's they just toughen old bosses as they make newer, more challenging ones. Not hp/fort tougher, but actual abilities that make them a challenge.

If you take the release time for each raid boss, you will find for that time, those bosses were unique challenges for the builds and gear at the time. But now, most f those old school challenges are no more because the gear/abilities/capabilites of our players far exceed them.

The only real way to fix a catch 22 like that is lock out players X levels above the highest quest level. In this case, Elite. So say, tempest spine elite. Lvl 12. You cannot enter the quest on elite or any lower difficulty if you are... How many levels over? What would be the right call? If it is for TS, would that formulaic expression work for DQ? If you can't, then you have to tailor the lockout on every raid, and then that too can cause bugs. And what about epic difficulty? That too has to be worked, because it breaks that limit.

It is a hard thing to do.

Try lord of the blades and master artificer. They are the newest raids and should present the most challenge up to date.

I would have been fine with something along the lines of toughening up boss special attacks. Take eVelah for instance. If they would have raised her knockdown DC it would make it more of a challenge (making fun of friends and guildies while they got fried alive) without making the fight boring and long. Having to raise more often, rebuff, equipping balance items, etc would have changed it up, maybe even made it as long as it is now, but not made it boring.

*Disclaimer: I'm definitely no DM or game designer, just making an example.

[DeltaBravo]

The problem is about direction. The raid bosses pre u11 either have to be completely reworked, or just toughened.

In most mmo's they just toughen old bosses as they make newer, more challenging ones. Not hp/fort tougher, but actual abilities that make them a challenge.

If you take the release time for each raid boss, you will find for that time, those bosses were unique challenges for the builds and gear at the time. But now, most f those old school challenges are no more because the gear/abilities/capabilites of our players far exceed them.

The only real way to fix a catch 22 like that is lock out players X levels above the highest quest level. In this case, Elite. So say, tempest spine elite. Lvl 12. You cannot enter the quest on elite or any lower difficulty if you are... How many levels over? What would be the right call? If it is for TS, would that formulaic expression work for DQ? If you can't, then you have to tailor the lockout on every raid, and then that too can cause bugs. And what about epic difficulty? That too has to be worked, because it breaks that limit.

It is a hard thing to do.

Try lord of the blades and master artificer. They are the newest raids and should present the most challenge up to date.

personally i dont think you sould change old raids becourse you make new ones. and have all the gear you need, I think leave the raid as it is and the people that are not all the way to top will still find some raids they can do together in groups in same situations. (not fully epic geared out and so) i dont think giveing new abilities will work to make the end fights wich i actully liked on all raid bosses pre U11 . yes you knew em but they all had something special in em and was hard the first time you did em aswell.

i have done the new raids. and yes its new abilities and all . And for now yes they are a good fun, but i like VOD and Shroud and if you do those raids at the right lvl they are imo just as hard as the new raids, (atleast VOD imo was harder then LOB and ARTI is. ) we had to try VOD 4 times before we completed .. we now done LOB and artificer .. first time we came in and did not have a scoopy :)

What iam saying if the old raid bosses are working as they sould (wich they all where ) why then make em harder for a more long and borring fight for people that allready done this raid 100+ times and allready have all the gear needed. And makeing the quests for people that want to do em at the right lvl very very expensive or not posible at all. i think its lame :P

[pandalet]

I totally agree! The raids are very slightly more difficult, and (generally) a lot more boring. There are plenty of new or mediocre players out there who struggled with stuff the way it was; while not everything should be catering for that, it's not necessary to cater for the power gamers in everything too.

Leaving the pre-U11 raids as they were and making the U11 stuff tough for how things are now would be fine with me.

[Micron]

I totally agree! The raids are very slightly more difficult, and (generally) a lot more boring. There are plenty of new or mediocre players out there who struggled with stuff the way it was; while not everything should be catering for that, it's not necessary to cater for the power gamers in everything too.

Leaving the pre-U11 raids as they were and making the U11 stuff tough for how things are now would be fine with me.

Stop trying to sound like a sensible person that makes valid points, it doesn't suit you... Have you run out of homebrew by any chance?

[pandalet]

*hic* you can't have any, itsch all miiiiiiiine!!!