Introduction to Monks?

[karl_k0ch]

I am interested in starting a monk, but I see that the choices one has when generating a monk are rather abundant:


Ninja Spy vs. Shintao
Stances (which is influenced by starting stats)
Void Strike (worth it?)
bonus feats
initial stat spread, especially on a WF


Is there some guide which gives a nice overview, and maybe also some advice for a new monk player?

[FrozenNova]

Ninja spy: Sneak damage, 25% incorporeality, touch of death.
Shintao: Healing ki, dr breaking punches, kukan-do and tomb of jade.

Stances - not much to say, they're straightforward; fire gives double normal ki income, wind gives doublestrike, earth gives dr and ac and generates ki on-being-hit, water is for running in traps.
Fire needs and gives str, wind needs and gives dex, earth - con, water - wisdom.

Void strike IV is fairly powerful, but costs an enourmous amount of AP. It's debatable as to whether it's worth the cost. Build something that can reach it without too much sacrifice and try it out.

10 Monk feats:
TWF
ITWF
GTWF
Impcrit
Power attack
*PrE feat prerequisite*
Stunning fist
Toughness
Toughness
Toughness / Stunning blow.

On a dwarf or 'forged I'd definitely go stunning blow for obvious reasons, but all other races usually benefit more from toughness without godlike +str gear.

Not entirely sure how I'd do the stats for a 'forged.
Probably something like 15 str / 15 dex / 16 con / 8 int / 14 wis / 6 cha on a 32pt.

[karl_k0ch]

Thanks for a first response and the overview.

Re: Stances. Does one usually switch between stances as one sees fit, or do I typically decide for one stance and stick to it? Are there any particular synergies between stances and the philosophical paths?

It seems to me that, without the funds to get silver-threaded handwraps, for a new monk player, Shintao is offering the full dps potential in a more accessible way, especially against raid bosses.

[Atremus]

I started with a Light Monk because I didn't have the handwraps farmed for DR breaking. The utility is really nice with the light monk and I haven't missed the extra damage potential thus far. I get a kick out of dismissal and smite tainted creature.


As far as stances, you will switch in and out depending on need. Mostly I stay in Fire because of Ki generation issues and a lack of Ki generating gear. When I solo, I don't have issues with Ki generation but when I'm in a group, it's a bit harder to keep Ki flowing.

[Redicular]

Re: Stances. Does one usually switch between stances as one sees fit, or do I typically decide for one stance and stick to it? Are there any particular synergies between stances and the philosophical paths?


you'll spend the overwhelming amount of time in either fire(ki and damage) or wind(speed and doublestrike)

water stance adds up to +2 to ac and dc's for most of your debuffs, and a boost to your already high saves, situationally useful but nothing you'll ride in

earth stance is by far the weakest even after its been buffed, read the wiki for specifics, but:
the dr is poor due to monks getting full time dr10/epic at level 20(earth is dr 8/-)
ki when hit shouldn't matter
dex penalty kills finesse builds
movement speed down is no fun

this is clearly balanced by earth having by far the BEST strikes

there is a very slight synergy between fire stance and dark path, touch of death eats a lot of ki, and fire generates that the fastest


It seems to me that, without the funds to get silver-threaded handwraps, for a new monk player, Shintao is offering the full dps potential in a more accessible way, especially against raid bosses.

this is a correct assumption, I would always reccommend a newbie to go shintao. dark path has higher dps potential, but it requires a great deal more player effort to reach that potential

few other notes:

strike utility: earth>air>water=fire

healing amp is good

remember you need 18 in a stat not counting enhancements to take a top tier stance, expect 1~2 grandmasters, 1~2master(2g1m or 1g2m), and the other ignored unless going for void 4(which needs all 4 at master)

16/16/14/8/14/8 is good basic spread for a human, level ups in str. if you don't have 32 point builds, don't build a monk

don't pay any attention to ninja spy's ki weapon: shortsword on a pure monk, your fists are better

void strike 4 costs 40 AP in terms of pre-reqs, its worth it, but be aware it will be the focus of your build. only 2 of PRE, path special ability(TOD, rise of phoenix), and void4 are possible

[OsOscarius]

Just snipping in to defend the earth stance.
Remember that tier 3 and 4 of the stance increases your critical hits from x2 to x3. This is a pretty decent increase of DPS along side the extra hp (+40 isn't bad at all)

However, the "ki when you're hit" isn't amizing, and the minus to dex and movement speed can be detrimental for many players.
But stances are really a personal thing, so play around with them and find which one you like. :)

[WruntJunior]

As far as stances, I find myself in air most of the time and in earth when hasted or in a raid, for the higher crit multiplier, on my monk. Can't see any real reason to go fire stance unless you're str-based and need the to-hit once you get oremi's necklace, though...but until then, fire is nice for the ki generation.

As far as shintao vs. ninja spy, I'd go with shintao until you have good dr-breaking wraps, then switch to ninja spy, unless you find yourself liking shintao too much. With the alchemical handwraps, though, it shouldn't take too long to get dr-breaking now...assuming they work properly.

Finally, for void strike, the main reason I used to take it (killing enemies in epics) no longer is necessary, so I would NOT recommend it, especially on a new character.

[Atremus]

...once you get oremi's necklace, though...but until then, fire is nice for the ki generation.

Once I have the necklace, I'll switch to Wind / Earth. Before that though, I need Fire to maintain Ki for all those awesome Monk abilities.

For me, Monk [the class] is all kinds of fun.

[Braegan]

Path

Light: Offers some decent self-healing in combat, party buffs, able to more easily by-pass important DR's in game.

Dark: Offers more raw DPS, mob de-buffs, ninja fade 25% incorpral ability for good survivability

Both have their uses and places where they shine. Light monks are a tad easier to gear up.

Race

Halfings make solid monks. I've found them very easy to make finesse AC builds as well as solid DPS machines.

WF & Dwarf make beefier monks with higher DCs due to racial enhancements.

Half-Orcs again are a solid choice for aggressive Str based monks.

Humans with the ability to put enhancements in any two stats add some versatility and human heal amp is not to be overlooked.

Half-elves with Rog Dill are another good choice.

Elves and Drow really don't being much to the table.

Stats

To get Grandmaster Stance you need a base 18 of the relevent stance.

Fire = Str
Wind = Dex
Earth = Con
Water = Wis

Due to AP costs you will most likely be able to GM one or two stances so you don't need to qualify for all of them. However, if you plan on doing any kind of stunning towards end game and in epics you can't completely tank wis. Also, dex will need to be high enough to qualify for TWF chain.

Since you mentioned WF, for 32 pt I would go:

Str: 16 <- Level ups here
Dex: 15
Con: 16
Int: 8
Wis: 13
Cha: 6

Stances

Fire Boosts Str, decreases wisdom. Generates Ki and gains +25% healing amp while wearing Jidz Tet'ka.

Air Boosts Dex, decreases constitution. Allows for chances of double strikes (2.5%, 5%, 7.5%, 10% per upgrade of stance IIRC). Gains insight bonus to Jump skill while wearing Jidz.

Earth Boosts Con, decreases dexterity. Grants +1 crit multiplier on nat rolls of 19-20 and gains tiers of DR/- per level of stances. (note: monks do gain 10/Epic at level 20. However, this dr can be bypassed if/when you play epics the dr gained from earth stance cannot by bypassed). Increases your Die Step for unarmed while wearing Jidz. (note: Die Step increase from Jidz stacks with Past Life Monk but does not stack with Garments of Equilibrium).

Ocean Boosts Wis, decreases strength. Gives a bonus to saves. Gives unarmed strikes a poison which decreases dex and paralysis while wearing Jidz.

Important to note you do not need to be in the stance to utilize the elemental strikes associated with them. For example you can be in wind stance and spam earth strikes.

Most folks that aim for DPS recomend having earth stance to tier 3 or 4 for their strikes alone as it is that good.

Feats

You get 10, 11 if human. 7 base, 3 monk bonus.

-toughness
-stunning fist
-twf
-itwf
-gtwf
-PA
-IC - Blud
-*pre pre-req*
-toughness/stunning blow/wep finesse (if dex build)
-toughness/monk past life feat

Skills

Concentration is key to a monk and should be maxed at all levels. The rest I tend to spread around Hide, Move Silently, Balance, and some in Jump and Tumble.

Finishers

This post sums it up very nice.

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=263737

A bit long winded but hopefully it helps you some. :)

[WruntJunior]

Once I have the necklace, I'll switch to Wind / Earth. Before that though, I need Fire to maintain Ki for all those awesome Monk abilities.

For me, Monk [the class] is all kinds of fun.

One more thing...you might not even need Oremi's. The new Alchemist's Pendent looks like it does the same thing as Oremi's as far as ki gen, and drops from a much easier quest (Blown to Bits compared to an Amrath quest). But yeah, until then, you may not have enough ki to use all the strikes.

[stoerm]

DDOCast has excellent monk related segments. Alex Haddox' Inside The Monastery and LittleWind's Lifting The Veil. Highly recommended.

[LightBear]

Nice gear to have:
Wrath of Sora Kell set
Jidz-Tetka
Lenses of Opportunity
Vamperic Stonedust Handwraps
Garments of Equilibrium
Try to fit +6 dex and con in some of your free slots.

After trying out some build I winded up with a halfling finesse build in combination with water stance.

[elg582]

I am interested in starting a monk, but I see that the choices one has when generating a monk are rather abundant:


Ninja Spy vs. Shintao
Stances (which is influenced by starting stats)
Void Strike (worth it?)
bonus feats
initial stat spread, especially on a WF


Is there some guide which gives a nice overview, and maybe also some advice for a new monk player?

I thought I would just start over due to some fundamental disagreements with some of the previous posts.

Note: I have played monks to cap on 4 different servers, from the day the class came out to my 2 currently active monks, pure and multiclassed 10 different ways. I play in epics and hard/elite raids with a mid-sized guild.



Light vs Dark: Fighting vs. utility, it's that simple. Oh, the shintao aren't bad DPS, especially against undead, but ninja gets very high DPS and good defense from ninja fade.



Stances: The most important thing to understand about stances is that they have changed progressively since the class came out, and will most likely continue to do so. Roughly:

-Fire: Good early on when ki is hard to come by, but less useful later as ki is plentiful.

-Water: Resists and WIS, good for dex/wis builds, not really my style.

-Wind: Doublestrike; one of the DPS stances, depending on gear and enemy.

-Earth: AC, DR, HP, and +1 critical hit multiplier at tier 3, as well as the most effective strikes; this is the general DPS stance after level 12.



Void strike: This is something that you really have to build specifically for, and it costs you a lot of other abilities. IMO, not worth it.



Bonus feats: The basic feats are toughness, TWF, iTWF, improved critical: bludgeoning, gTWF, power attack, and the prerequisites for whichever prestige class you are taking (dodge or stunning fist+1). Popular options for the rest include dragonmarks, extra toughnesses, and stunning blow.



Stat spread: The key to monks is balance; you don't need to max anything, it's too many points that will help you more elsewhere (although it very funny in a crucible run when the leader asks for the lowest WIS to say "4" :)). So, we need 4 stats, STR, DEX, CON, and WIS.

-STR: This will be your to-hit stat, like it or not. There are simply too many more ways to raise STR than DEX. 15 standard, 14 on halfling, 16 on horc or warforged, and all level ups here.

-DEX: This must hit a base value of 17 for TWF chain. 16 on elf, halfling, or if you don't think you'll be able to get a +2 tome, 15 otherwise.

-CON: You want this to hit base 16 minimum; 14 if you can get a +2 tome, 15 otherwise, or more if you feel like it. If you want to play an elf but can't get a +2 tome, you can put one level point here and use a +1.

-WIS: Everything else. base 14, 12 on warforged.

My warforged would go 16/16/16/8/12/6, ninja, stunning blow and toughnesses for the extra feats.



Races:

-Human: Extra feat, extra skills, versatility boosts, better healing.

-Dwarf: Tied for best stat spread, lots of HP, tactics.

-Halfling: AC, sneak attack, healing dragonmarks (I don't use, but some do).

-Elf: My personal favorite, AC, displacement dragonmark. elf chicks are HAWT.

-Warforged: Best tank, lots of HP, arcane healing (very nice with artificers out), power attack, tactics, threat enhancement.

-Half-elf: Dilettante, versatility boosts.

- Half-orc: Tied for best stat spread, extra STR, power attack, threat enhancement.

My big problem with humans, helves and horcs (well, for dark monks) is that they tend to pull aggro that they cannot mitigate against; WF and dwarves have lots more HP, elves get displacement, halflings get AC.

Note that I didn't list drow here; I have a multiclass drow monk/paladin, but I don't think that they do well as pure monks.