Epic Raids

[Allorian]

Well, 1st of all I like that turbine is being creative with raid end Bosses, adding Moderate Fort, 2x Hp's. With that said not all change is good change. I play almost exclusively end game content, epic raids, TOD, etc..what turbine has done is create the 3 headed monster in a manner of speaking. To start when I 1st learned how to do Epic Von 6 about 1&1/2 yrs ago I failed it almost 2x a day for the 1st week and a half before I started passing it. It was new and exciting and putting together the group to do it was almost as much fun. I made a lot of new buddies and we have had some great times doing that particular run. Now I have completed it over 300 times and with the update I am not really happy with what Turbine has done. It has turned a fun get your buddies and some guildies and if ya dont know the run we'll teach it to ya run to a very long almost boring kill the dragon run. It was very exciting to see new people that I am teching the raid to have fun and kill the dragon and look at the loot ya can get, to wow is this thing ever gonna die? I understand that with casters being given the DOT spells it has become much easier to kill almost every raid boss in the game but guys, c'mon. I feel that when we are fighting the epic dragon I am in fact mowing the lawn! I don't like mowing the lawn and please keep in mind that I am not a complainer in this game but I do not think that I am the only person with this type of opinon. Maybe an answer would be to put a few different CR's in the Epic content.

CR 25 would be the same as it was before the update with the same drop rates
CR 30 would be the same as it is now with UD11, increased drop rates on loot for a higher end reward to a much greater challenge. Also maybe 2 epic Raid tokens.
CR 35 The Ultimate challenge. Heavy fort, 3X Hp's and vastly increased saves and immunities for Bosses, Mobs have 2X H.P's and Mod fort with increased saves and 2X normal Loot drops for CR25 loot. And maybe 3 epic raid tokens.

This is just an idea, one that I think may have some merit and would satisfy people looking for that challenge with the rewards being worth it. I know it would take some work on Turbines part but would be worth the effort. I am sure that there are people who could add ideas to this, lets just make the game fun for everyone and give out some options for higher challenges.


Thx Guys
Glam/Choh/Juggernautte Officer of Sarlonas Midnight Guardians

[Qezuzu]

1st of all I like that turbine is being creative with raid end Bosses, adding Moderate Fort, 2x Hp's.


Wait, what?

Increasing Raid Boss HP/Damage/Fort is about the least creative way to raise difficulty.



Heavy fort, 3X Hp's and vastly increased saves and immunities for Bosses, Mobs have 2X H.P's and Mod fort


Do you hate rogues? Heck, all melees? Casters already have much higher DPS than melees, content with bosses at 100% fort will just make melees even less desirable.

I'm not really getting your post. First you say that icnreasing HP/Damage/fort for raid bosses is creative, and then you say you don't like how long it takes to kill Velah. And THEN you say we should have content with 100% fortified, x3 HP bosses, 75% fortified and x2 HP mobs, because that's a challenge.

It's not a challenge. It's just obnoxious, and 100% fortification on things that aren't inherently immune to critical hits/Sneak attacks only contribute to making melees (and rogues) a lot less useful.

[vittordevittor]

Noone but elitists or wow players liked these changes. It killed the game for me, a fresh new player

[BadBuy]

I agree that just raising the HP is a primitive way of making things harder because what it does is mainly put more strain on the healers which for some certain reasons are not very plentyfull nowadays anyway.

On the other hand player gear is getting better and better with every update and it's hard to make the bosses still challanging. The Devs can't alter the old raids too much (for example no flying Velah) cause even more people would be unhappy, so they just resort to upping the stats which also has it's limitations.

EDIT:
My personal opinion: I really don't like the new "beat-a-thon". It makes every boss feel like Part 1 of the Shroud with only two low dps mellees. In other words just plain boring and grind'ish.

[patang01]

Well, 1st of all I like that turbine is being creative with raid end Bosses, adding Moderate Fort, 2x Hp's. With that said not all change is good change. I play almost exclusively end game content, epic raids, TOD, etc..what turbine has done is create the 3 headed monster in a manner of speaking. To start when I 1st learned how to do Epic Von 6 about 1&1/2 yrs ago I failed it almost 2x a day for the 1st week and a half before I started passing it. It was new and exciting and putting together the group to do it was almost as much fun. I made a lot of new buddies and we have had some great times doing that particular run. Now I have completed it over 300 times and with the update I am not really happy with what Turbine has done. It has turned a fun get your buddies and some guildies and if ya dont know the run we'll teach it to ya run to a very long almost boring kill the dragon run. It was very exciting to see new people that I am teching the raid to have fun and kill the dragon and look at the loot ya can get, to wow is this thing ever gonna die? I understand that with casters being given the DOT spells it has become much easier to kill almost every raid boss in the game but guys, c'mon. I feel that when we are fighting the epic dragon I am in fact mowing the lawn! I don't like mowing the lawn and please keep in mind that I am not a complainer in this game but I do not think that I am the only person with this type of opinon. Maybe an answer would be to put a few different CR's in the Epic content.

CR 25 would be the same as it was before the update with the same drop rates
CR 30 would be the same as it is now with UD11, increased drop rates on loot for a higher end reward to a much greater challenge. Also maybe 2 epic Raid tokens.
CR 35 The Ultimate challenge. Heavy fort, 3X Hp's and vastly increased saves and immunities for Bosses, Mobs have 2X H.P's and Mod fort with increased saves and 2X normal Loot drops for CR25 loot. And maybe 3 epic raid tokens.

This is just an idea, one that I think may have some merit and would satisfy people looking for that challenge with the rewards being worth it. I know it would take some work on Turbines part but would be worth the effort. I am sure that there are people who could add ideas to this, lets just make the game fun for everyone and give out some options for higher challenges.


Thx Guys
Glam/Choh/Juggernautte Officer of Sarlonas Midnight Guardians

Good luck finding healers that will waste all those resources. I've already taken Echrono and EVON etc off the list of stuff I'm going to do and I'm thinking the new ELOB won't be on there either.

Some other group wrote a couple of days ago how super great fun they had spending 120 pots and 800 heal scrolls.

If beating on the same guy for 15-20 is fun while sucking pots - then yeah. Maybe.

There are so many other things to tweak difficulty - adding more HP and more fort just adds to the general attrition and makes quests boring.

[Chette]

Noone but elitists or wow players liked these changes. It killed the game for me, a fresh new player

Normal raid bosses didn't change.

Would it make more sense that a "fresh new player" should be able to tackle the hardest content in the game, or would it make more sense that such a player should run the easier content until they have appropriately geared up and are able to tackle the harder levels?

[Allorian]

Wait, what?

Increasing Raid Boss HP/Damage/Fort is about the least creative way to raise difficulty.



Do you hate rogues? Heck, all melees? Casters already have much higher DPS than melees, content with bosses at 100% fort will just make melees even less desirable.

I'm not really getting your post. First you say that icnreasing HP/Damage/fort for raid bosses is creative, and then you say you don't like how long it takes to kill Velah. And THEN you say we should have content with 100% fortified, x3 HP bosses, 75% fortified and x2 HP mobs, because that's a challenge.

It's not a challenge. It's just obnoxious, and 100% fortification on things that aren't inherently immune to critical hits/Sneak attacks only contribute to making melees (and rogues) a lot less useful.

Yeah, that is a good point because I play Melee's as well, the point being lets scale the Epic Challenges so people can enjoy the challenge at thier level of play and that there should be options. Please keep in mind that I am only pointing out options and that Turbine is trying to make changes to challenge us. It seems kinda hit and miss right now and more on the miss side. Do ya know anyone who would want to make an exrtreme challenge to get much better rewards? I know a few, I think they are kinda nutty but they are out there. Anyway maybe we should be more on the constructive side of how to improve the game play, I know some of these options are way out there for most people but with the Devs talking about raising the Lvl cap they are gonna have to do something sooner or later.


Thx
Glam/Choh/Juggernautte of Sarlona's Midnight Guardians

[Bufo_Alvarius]

Normal raid bosses didn't change.

Would it make more sense that a "fresh new player" should be able to tackle the hardest content in the game, or would it make more sense that such a player should run the easier content until they have appropriately geared up and are able to tackle the harder levels?

So whats your opinion on well geared/epicced rogues and 80% fort? Have we just not "appropriately geared up"? These changes are absolute **** for rogues.

[Xeraphim]

So whats your opinion on well geared/epicced rogues and 80% fort? Have we just not "appropriately geared up"? These changes are absolute **** for rogues.

A separation of Fortification and protection from Sneak attacks is necessary in this case.

[Seikojin]

Well, 1st of all I like that turbine is being creative with raid end Bosses, adding Moderate Fort, 2x Hp's. With that said not all change is good change. I play almost exclusively end game content, epic raids, TOD, etc..what turbine has done is create the 3 headed monster in a manner of speaking. To start when I 1st learned how to do Epic Von 6 about 1&1/2 yrs ago I failed it almost 2x a day for the 1st week and a half before I started passing it. It was new and exciting and putting together the group to do it was almost as much fun. I made a lot of new buddies and we have had some great times doing that particular run. Now I have completed it over 300 times and with the update I am not really happy with what Turbine has done. It has turned a fun get your buddies and some guildies and if ya dont know the run we'll teach it to ya run to a very long almost boring kill the dragon run. It was very exciting to see new people that I am teching the raid to have fun and kill the dragon and look at the loot ya can get, to wow is this thing ever gonna die? I understand that with casters being given the DOT spells it has become much easier to kill almost every raid boss in the game but guys, c'mon. I feel that when we are fighting the epic dragon I am in fact mowing the lawn! I don't like mowing the lawn and please keep in mind that I am not a complainer in this game but I do not think that I am the only person with this type of opinon. Maybe an answer would be to put a few different CR's in the Epic content.

CR 25 would be the same as it was before the update with the same drop rates
CR 30 would be the same as it is now with UD11, increased drop rates on loot for a higher end reward to a much greater challenge. Also maybe 2 epic Raid tokens.
CR 35 The Ultimate challenge. Heavy fort, 3X Hp's and vastly increased saves and immunities for Bosses, Mobs have 2X H.P's and Mod fort with increased saves and 2X normal Loot drops for CR25 loot. And maybe 3 epic raid tokens.

This is just an idea, one that I think may have some merit and would satisfy people looking for that challenge with the rewards being worth it. I know it would take some work on Turbines part but would be worth the effort. I am sure that there are people who could add ideas to this, lets just make the game fun for everyone and give out some options for higher challenges.


Thx Guys
Glam/Choh/Juggernautte Officer of Sarlonas Midnight Guardians

I also agree that new eppics should have increased rewards.

I think however, that since they buffed the fort, they should also offer bigger/creative ways to break through it. They already increased the HP's. They don't need fort to make it a longer fight. Like you said, to stop the chore syndrome.

I think Epic raid bosses should have some sort of spell reflection. I am sure strats would change if there was a way for the boss to bounce those pesky dots back to those bothersome casters. :)

I also think bosses should not be immune to stat debuffing. They should not be able to become helpless, but they should be affectable to some degree.

In the end, I am looking at it like this: why make it so all you can do to win a raid boss is pew pew to win? It takes the effort and makes it into a task chore to get the lewt.

A great example of what I am talking about is Horoth. He can banish you unless you have boots of anchoring on. OR if you carry spell absorb items to soak up the attempts. There is a strategy optional there. If there was a spell, it would be common practice to have it running. Much like it is a requirement for boots pretty much nowndays.

I think if the epic bosses were laid out in a thread, given a focus of the vision for them, then the challenges could be tailored to them.

[dredre9987]

edit nvm misread

[Allorian]

[/QUOTE]I think however, that since they buffed the fort, they should also offer bigger/creative ways to break through it. They already increased the HP's. They don't need fort to make it a longer fight. Like you said, to stop the chore syndrome.

I think Epic raid bosses should have some sort of spell reflection. I am sure strats would change if there was a way for the boss to bounce those pesky dots back to those bothersome casters. :)

I also think bosses should not be immune to stat debuffing. They should not be able to become helpless, but they should be affectable to some degree.

In the end, I am looking at it like this: why make it so all you can do to win a raid boss is pew pew to win? It takes the effort and makes it into a task chore to get the lewt.

A great example of what I am talking about is Horoth. He can banish you unless you have boots of anchoring on. OR if you carry spell absorb items to soak up the attempts. There is a strategy optional there. If there was a spell, it would be common practice to have it running. Much like it is a requirement for boots pretty much nowndays.

I think if the epic bosses were laid out in a thread, given a focus of the vision for them, then the challenges could be tailored to them.[/QUOTE]

Awesome, very creative thinking, this is the kind of thing the Devs need to hear about and Thx.



Thx
Glam/Choh/Juggernautte