Artificer, What is the point?

[Honey]

I was thinking about tr ing into a 36pt arti, and this is most likely way off, but I dont see the point of this class.

Caster? no wizzy and sorc are better. Healer? no FS, cleric, or even wf wiz or sorc are better at repair. Rogue? not sure on this one because it seems with one level of rogue u can get all traps in game but 1 to 4 quest. DPS ? not even close, unless the heavy repeater post u11 is now going to be the weapon of choice and not the weapon of "new".

So with arti unlockable(only get by ddo points at this time) it seems like the reason to play this class is only because it is new. Please state a case for artificer. I would love to roll one, but when it will cost extra real money, I need a reason other then its new, haggle, umd bot. I already have a 36 wf wizzy rogue.

[dkyle]

Crafting bot. A level 20 Artificer with full DMarks of Making gets 20 bonus crafting levels, stacked on top of whatever level you get with you crafting XP. 80 -> 100 is a huge savings of crafting grind.

Aside from that, yeah, it does seem rather limited. But I haven't tried one out much yet, aside from early levels on Lamannia. My TWF Bard appreciates the Elemental Weapons scrolls, though!

[Chai]

Players who dont feel the need to specialize in one thing while sacrificing all else will enjoy them, as they enjoy bards, rangers, paladins, etc.

[Ancient]

I was a bit ticked when I made the min/max decision that I'd "have" to TR my crafter into an artificer, but when I tested things out on laminia I was pleasantly surprised to find that the main reason I'd buy the class is...

I think it is a fun class to play.

[Memnir]

The point is that they are fun, and they bring a host of new and awesome buffs to the game. :)

[Lyzernn]

Arties have useful buffs and repeater proficiency which is now a pretty good weapon.

[barryman5000]

... I think it is a fun class to play.

^this

Artificer's are well rounded and just fun to play. They are not any of the things you mentioned but most closely resemble a bard. My wife keeps saying they are a good "utility" class.

Honestly I think most people will treat them like a bard in raids/groups. Already got one arti? Ok, take down the lfg for arti's.

[Therigar]

The class IS fun to play. But, I think people will also find that the class is extremely durable and self-sufficient. Couple that with exceptional ranged damage and better than average melee and spell damage and you have a very powerful character class.

In the hands of veteran players (skill, not time on server) the artificer may be the single most over-powered class in the game. You can find specific areas where one class is better at this thing, or another is better at that thing -- whatever the thing is that you choose to look at. But, it is doubtful that any other class combines so many things together and does them all so well.

We are already seeing entire groups of nothing but artificers. That will continue for quite some time, IMO. In fact, I continue to believe that combined with the sorcerers, wizards, clerics and favored souls this new class will be critical to high level questing. My expectation is to see these 5 classes together -- which, it is no coincidence, are the ones to receive the most recent upgrades from Turbine -- dominate DDO for quite some time.

[cdemeritt]

A while ago, I tried a wizard/rogue... (the 18/2 split) and found them to be a lot of fun with the mix of magic/non-magics... this is on of the higher ranking classes for me, and the way I like to play...

after a while, I was looking at the wiz/rogue and was trying to find a way to be more roguish and less magic... all plans seemed to at best end with a mediocre toon, at worst a total gimp.

Arti seems to be that mechanic caster I wanted to play... an interesting mix of wizard and rogue (and others) that I was looking for.

As for your question: Why a kensi or stalwart or pali, or anything other than a barbarian... Why a cleric and not a FvS, or a Wizard over a sorc... All of these seem to be the same question as you are asking...

Best answer: Why Not.

As for making a case as why you should pay for it... if you have to ask, then it's probably not going to be for you.

[BoBo2020]

I was a bit ticked when I made the min/max decision that I'd "have" to TR my crafter into an artificer, but when I tested things out on laminia I was pleasantly surprised to find that the main reason I'd buy the class is...

I think it is a fun class to play.

It's totally fun.

Korthos has been overrun but metallic puppies and I love it.

[Ziindarax]

Artificers are a jack-of-all-trades class, though they can kick butt with a lit2 heavy repeater; when the dev's add deadly weapons back to the game, they will be a major boon to those looking to enhance their DPS.

Also, the 6-second machine gun feature/enhancement makes for a nice bit of burst DPS, especially if said weapon has an effect like Lightning strike (more bolts = greater likelihood of procs).

The rune arm can be enhanced by enhancements that boost spells, as well as item effects, so that's a nice boon there, and the rune arm can be charged/fired at the same time that you are shooting a spell/volley of bolts. The trick with artificer is that they take a bit of time to learn as they utilize new mechanics.

[Honey]

My favorite toon by far is the 12 fs/6 ranger/2 monk, but I cant get into many groups with that toon and for the most part I just farm shroud ingrediants with her so she is pretty much retired(not by choice).

I see the same for arti at high level. As far the argument why play cleric when u have a fs? why play any melee instead of barb? Both of those are valid as you can see by the hundreds of post for and against. What is the artificers case? There are tons of "fun" builds that you can play for free. I was hoping there was some reason that I was missing. I am guessing you will see in ToDs and other high end raids post for maybe bard or arti?

Not one person can come up with a reason why Artificer is the best at ? I see crafter on the list, any thing else? Does not mean you are right, hence all the cleric love that states why they are better then fs or visa versa, or why a paly is needed at end game, those classes have at least a case to make, What does artificer have? I am asking because I really want to play one, but not have toon that is just going to sit in vault at level 20.

[Gorbadoc]

Caster? no wizzy and sorc are better. Healer? no FS, cleric, or even wf wiz or sorc are better at repair. Rogue? not sure on this one because it seems with one level of rogue u can get all traps in game but 1 to 4 quest. DPS ? not even close, unless the heavy repeater post u11 is now going to be the weapon of choice and not the weapon of "new".

Your priorities seem to focus on specialization-- being The Best at a particular task in combat. Your intuition may be correct: Artificer may not be the class for you.

I'll probably roll and artificer and love it for the same reason that I love my bards. I love making other people shine, even though it means my own build doesn't shine quite as brightly as it could if I had picked a different class.



Edit: There's also versatility. I want to be careful about this, though, because there is such a thing as bad versatility.

In combat, you can do one thing at a time. Good versatility means being able to do what the party needs most at any given time. For example, I advertise my war chanter as being a melee build. MOST of the time, the party needs me to provide solid DPS. I can momentarily interrupt my attack to heal someone, though, when it's needed. I can interrupt my attack to scout ahead and Fascinate when it's needed. I can pull out a throwing dagger and act as a mediocre ranged build when it's needed I can turn invisible, run, Fascinate, sneak back in, gather soul stones, and Raise Dead when it's needed.

There are two keys here: First, I'm genuinely good at the thing I spend most of my time doing (melee DPS). Not as good as a fighter, granted, but good enough. Second, when I stop swinging to do something else, it's because the "something else" is more useful to the party than an additional melee DPS source.

I know, I speak of bards rather than artificers. That's because I know bard strategy inside-out. I suspect artificers have a few in-combat tricks to set them apart from the other classes. Backup healing comes to mind, of course. Then there's Tactical Detonation as a crowd control/HP softener for when a high-int melee artificer is closing to melee range. I look forward to seeing what other tactics the really clever players come up with.

[JeffreyGator]

Arguably the artificer flame turret is better than a firewall. (cheaper sp, own aggro, may last longer)

Artificers (I think) are the only class with untyped damage enhancements potentially giving the hardest hitting blade barriers.

High int from enhancements and skill enhancements make them potentially able to get the highest search and DD scores. (not that these are needed really)

~4-5 bolts per second in machine gun mode provides nice burst dps.

Buffs such as silver or elemental damage improve damage of the party. (silver for example on the twf litII khopesh user)

[Gkar]

Yea, its another bard. A bit of this, a bit of that. Some people like it, others don't. If you don't, don't play one.

Personally I wouldn't pay 1cent for them though. If I accidently unlock favor in update 12 I will however probably TR my 1st life bard (who happens to be my crafter) into one to try it out.

[KreepyKritter]

You all need to stop talking.

I was perfectly happy to reserve my stack of TP for later in the year, and wait on a discount for the class, but you dirty punks keep giving me good reasons to NOT wait, and go ahead now to pick it up... Now I'm kinda wishing I hadn't purchased FvS a few months ago... I might actually PLAY an Artificer.

[Ziindarax]

My favorite toon by far is the 12 fs/6 ranger/2 monk, but I cant get into many groups with that toon and for the most part I just farm shroud ingrediants with her so she is pretty much retired(not by choice).

I see the same for arti at high level. As far the argument why play cleric when u have a fs? why play any melee instead of barb? Both of those are valid as you can see by the hundreds of post for and against. What is the artificers case? There are tons of "fun" builds that you can play for free. I was hoping there was some reason that I was missing. I am guessing you will see in ToDs and other high end raids post for maybe bard or arti?

Not one person can come up with a reason why Artificer is the best at ? I see crafter on the list, any thing else? Does not mean you are right, hence all the cleric love that states why they are better then fs or visa versa, or why a paly is needed at end game, those classes have at least a case to make, What does artificer have? I am asking because I really want to play one, but not have toon that is just going to sit in vault at level 20.

Artificer has a pet that can be used to help tank (or sneak attack), and the artificer is the only one who has access to spells that can break any DR in the game (and eventually, will have the deadly weapons buff that boosts your weapon's damage by one die step [I.E. 1d6 becomes 2d6]. Artificers can use scrolls, wands, and even item clickies BETTER than anyone else, and without having to gimp themselves to do it (since the receive such feats freely).

Artificers are more powerful/better than most people might give them credit for. It is true that no single weapon/spell in the Artificer's arsenal can match the DPS of a barbarian or a caster, but the damage they can inflict is unlimited (they get echoes of power last I recall, and conjure bolts only uses 5 sp, and rune arms can be used an unlimited number of times).

[dkyle]

I was hoping there was some reason that I was missing. I am guessing you will see in ToDs and other high end raids post for maybe bard or arti?

The answers you are getting are people own subjective experiences with the class. And it's good that people are having fun with it, but it's not exactly a compelling case for someone to want to play it. As you say, there are lots of fun builds. What makes Artis special? To be honest, aside from the newness of them, I'm not seeing it. If they'd been around from the start, I suspect they'd be less popular than Bards.

As support characters, they are very much like Bards. They buff their allies to do more damage. They don't stack well with each, but they do stack with Bards, who also don't stack well with each other.

But, the quality of their support varies pretty wildly with content. Once Deadly Weapons is available, they'll get some better, more consistently useful support. But right now, Elemental Weapons is useful essentially everywhere for a +3.5 damage per hit, which is clearly inferior to a decent Bard's IC (which should be at least +7 damage). It's also worth noting, however, that thanks to scrolls, a Rogue, Bard (or anyone, really, given the easy UMD check) is nearly as good at providing this buff as an actual Artificer.

In some content, an Arti can mean much more than that, though. In Devil Raids, in a group with a lot of LitIIs and non-DR-breaking ESoSes, Silver Weapons can represent a large chunk of bonus damage. Around +15 damage by letting people break DR with their LitIIs instead of using MinIIs (or basic Cannith crafted weapons).

That's pretty much the maximum potency of Arti buffs, right now: Elite Devil Raids.

In general, Arti buffs have some serious disadvantages compared to Bard buffs. They're short duration, like songs, but unlike songs (at least, the DPS songs) are single target, only apply to specific equipped weapons, and are impossible for the Artificer to inspect on other players to know when reapplication is necessary. And different characters might need different buffs for different weapons. So in practice, Arti buffs are likely to be much less efficiently used than Bard buffs.

So, basically, Artificers are support characters, that really shine in specific content, given a specifically (albeit fairly commonly) geared party, but overall, are likely to pale compared to Bards. But since they do stack with Bards, they'll have a place in most Raids, at least. But I suspect that most leaders will rather fill a 12th spot with a Bard, than with an Artificer, if they have neither already.

And before anyone says: I'm all about support characters. I have a Bard listed first in my sig for a reason. But I'm an optimizer. That doesn't mean I need to do the most DPS myself, but it does mean I prioritize the mechanical effectiveness of things, and Bards strike me as a more effective support option than Artificers, in general.

[Honey]

Arguably the artificer flame turret is better than a firewall. (cheaper sp, own aggro, may last longer)

Artificers (I think) are the only class with untyped damage enhancements potentially giving the hardest hitting blade barriers.

High int from enhancements and skill enhancements make them potentially able to get the highest search and DD scores. (not that these are needed really)

~4-5 bolts per second in machine gun mode provides nice burst dps.

Buffs such as silver or elemental damage improve damage of the party. (silver for example on the twf litII khopesh user)

This,(firewall vs flame turret) although, unfounded, is at least a valid case. silver buff(so an arti can turn all weapons in party to silver based for a timer period?)

Good stuff. Any one think it will be wanted more then a bard at end game?

Also if u tr into one, do you keep your crafting levels? My crafter has around 64 to 67 levels and do not want to start over, as of now crafting seems to be a necessary evil, not fun, but the fun you get from wielding and wearing the items you make is well worth it (silver hly-pg).

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Your motivation is to get Completionist back. :cool:


But seems like most people are having fun with it as well.

Versitility is fun.
Different and new is fun.

I'm enjoying mine so far, even though it is not really my type of character.

[Honey]

The answers you are getting are people own subjective experiences with the class. And it's good that people are having fun with it, but it's not exactly a compelling case for someone to want to play it. As you say, there are lots of fun builds. What makes Artis special? To be honest, aside from the newness of them, I'm not seeing it. If they'd been around from the start, I suspect they'd be less popular than Bards.

As support characters, they are very much like Bards. They buff their allies to do more damage. They don't stack well with each, but they do stack with Bards, who also don't stack well with each other.

But, the quality of their support varies pretty wildly with content. Once Deadly Weapons is available, they'll get some better, more consistently useful support. But right now, Elemental Weapons is useful essentially everywhere for a +3.5 damage per hit, which is clearly inferior to a decent Bard's IC (which should be at least +7 damage). It's also worth noting, however, that thanks to scrolls, a Rogue, Bard (or anyone, really, given the easy UMD check) is nearly as good at providing this buff as an actual Artificer.

In some content, an Arti can mean much more than that, though. In Devil Raids, in a group with a lot of LitIIs and non-DR-breaking ESoSes, Silver Weapons can represent a large chunk of bonus damage. Around +15 damage by letting people break DR with their LitIIs instead of using MinIIs (or basic Cannith crafted weapons).

That's pretty much the maximum potency of Arti buffs, right now: Elite Devil Raids.

In general, Arti buffs have some serious disadvantages compared to Bard buffs. They're short duration, like songs, but unlike songs (at least, the DPS songs) are single target, only apply to specific equipped weapons, and are impossible for the Artificer to inspect on other players to know when reapplication is necessary. And different characters might need different buffs for different weapons. So in practice, Arti buffs are likely to be much less efficiently used than Bard buffs.

So, basically, Artificers are support characters, that really shine in specific content, given a specifically (albeit fairly commonly) geared party, but overall, are likely to pale compared to Bards. But since they do stack with Bards, they'll have a place in most Raids, at least. But I suspect that most leaders will rather fill a 12th spot with a Bard, than with an Artificer, if they have neither already.

And before anyone says: I'm all about support characters. I have a Bard listed first in my sig for a reason. But I'm an optimizer. That doesn't mean I need to do the most DPS myself, but it does mean I prioritize the mechanical effectiveness of things, and Bards strike me as a more effective support option than Artificers, in general.

Great post

[wolfy42]

One advantage the class has is excellent solo ability. While that might not be a huge factor for everyone, it is a factor. WF Arti's especially are extremely good solo characters able to heal themselves and their pet easily. They also have the best summons in the game (not even comparable to any others pretty much).

The class has some weaknesses....like fairly low saving throws, no evasion, low max hp etc, but at the same time you get.

A wide range of skills with the int to keep them maxed including both trap skills and UMD..also including spot which is nice for ANY ranged build to have.
Decent melee damage and excellent (in many cases the best) ranged damage.
Quite decent offensive spells.
Pretty decent buffs.
Excellent healing of WF
Drastically enhanced use of scrolls, potions and especially wands.
Best summon (Basically free hireling with additional bonuses) in the game.
Rune Arms (Extra damage and other effects as well...works while doing normal attacks)
5 bonus feats
Rapid reload and exotic xbox feats for free.
Battle Engineers awesome bonus (no reason not to take it right now). Including 10 hp and +2 to hit and damage (stacks with everything else)
Personal Augmentation: Insightful strikes. Good all together, but great in combo with 6 rogue levels + mechanic (both attack and damage based on int)


There are other positives as well. A 14 arti/6 rogue build would have evasion and the ability to get a decent reflex save.....while having probably the highest ranged combat DPS in the game. Excellent trap skills, decent sneak attack bonus, rogue haste boost, excellent pet that taunts enemies (helping you get your sneak attacks off), great healing for your self and pet (no reconstruction though). The rogue levels would give you some nice stealth abilities as well. Stealth works quite well with Rune Arms charging setup btw.

Even a pure Arti is pretty fierce with decent damage potential. All the bonuses to ranged damage along with a fast firing speed make the extra bonus from Rogue mechanic nice...but not required to hit good DPS levels. The combo of the int bonus to damage AND sneak attack damage though can really add up (20 or so sneak attack damage on average + 10 at least from int bonus).

Awesome at solo play especially for experienced players with past life bonuses.
Good support character in just about any group. Combo's very well with a bard...especially if you have a few WF in the party.

Able to handle 95% of traps in the game....and pretty much all solo-able traps, without splashing.

With healing, damage, trap ability, awesome pets (to the point where your pet if buffed right can out damage any hireling of your level...and many players who didn't min-max).

The class may not be the best at any one thing (although it has the best summon....and is certainly in contention for best ranged damage..though probably only with 6 rogue levels add in) it is quite good at many things...which can be boosted through past lives, equipment etc. It plays quite different then many other classes...but in a good way.

[Myrddinman]

One advantage the class has is excellent solo ability. While that might not be a huge factor for everyone, it is a factor. WF Arti's especially are extremely good solo characters able to heal themselves and their pet easily. They also have the best summons in the game (not even comparable to any others pretty much).

The class has some weaknesses....like fairly low saving throws, no evasion, low max hp etc, but at the same time you get.

A wide range of skills with the int to keep them maxed including both trap skills and UMD..also including spot which is nice for ANY ranged build to have.
Decent melee damage and excellent (in many cases the best) ranged damage.
Quite decent offensive spells.
Pretty decent buffs.
Excellent healing of WF
Drastically enhanced use of scrolls, potions and especially wands.
Best summon (Basically free hireling with additional bonuses) in the game.
Rune Arms (Extra damage and other effects as well...works while doing normal attacks)
5 bonus feats
Rapid reload and exotic xbox feats for free.
Battle Engineers awesome bonus (no reason not to take it right now). Including 10 hp and +2 to hit and damage (stacks with everything else)
Personal Augmentation: Insightful strikes. Good all together, but great in combo with 6 rogue levels + mechanic (both attack and damage based on int)


There are other positives as well. A 14 arti/6 rogue build would have evasion and the ability to get a decent reflex save.....while having probably the highest ranged combat DPS in the game. Excellent trap skills, decent sneak attack bonus, rogue haste boost, excellent pet that taunts enemies (helping you get your sneak attacks off), great healing for your self and pet (no reconstruction though). The rogue levels would give you some nice stealth abilities as well. Stealth works quite well with Rune Arms charging setup btw.

Even a pure Arti is pretty fierce with decent damage potential. All the bonuses to ranged damage along with a fast firing speed make the extra bonus from Rogue mechanic nice...but not required to hit good DPS levels. The combo of the int bonus to damage AND sneak attack damage though can really add up (20 or so sneak attack damage on average + 10 at least from int bonus).

Awesome at solo play especially for experienced players with past life bonuses.
Good support character in just about any group. Combo's very well with a bard...especially if you have a few WF in the party.

Able to handle 95% of traps in the game....and pretty much all solo-able traps, without splashing.

With healing, damage, trap ability, awesome pets (to the point where your pet if buffed right can out damage any hireling of your level...and many players who didn't min-max).

The class may not be the best at any one thing (although it has the best summon....and is certainly in contention for best ranged damage..though probably only with 6 rogue levels add in) it is quite good at many things...which can be boosted through past lives, equipment etc. It plays quite different then many other classes...but in a good way.

^^all of this
:D

[vampiregoat69]

I know one thing they are OP ALOT. I had a lvl 5 pure rogue a lvl 4 arty found all traps and disabled them as if I had a 1 inteligence. Made me mad that they get everything a mechanic has and then some grrrrr.

[wolfy42]

I know one thing they are OP ALOT. I had a lvl 5 pure rogue a lvl 4 arty found all traps and disabled them as if I had a 1 inteligence. Made me mad that they get everything a mechanic has and then some grrrrr.

From what I have seen ranged damage is still not OP...and since that and the pets are the strongest selling point for the Arti.....I don't think they are that out of whack.

Melee damage isn't comparable to a rogue at all. And ranged damage even with a dex/int build that goes with insightful damage (for the int bonus without taking rogue levels) still won't have the sneak attack damage bonus, favored enemy bonuses, arcane archer bonuses, weapon specialization bonuses etc of other classes. Don't get me wrong the ranged damage is good compared to other classes....it's just ranged combat is still not usually optimal throughout the game. That being said with the new repeating xbow setup + insightful damage + enchant bonuses to the xbows (elemental repeating xbow + elemental weapon + bonus from battle engineer and endless fussilage (just doubles damage output of the repeating xbow....but equivalent over all to multishot bow users) = quite good damage output from range.

With the new point blank shot though a rogue (who gets sneak attacks within point blank shot range I believe) using a repeating xbow is going to get off some serious damage (looks like you get the sneak attack bonus for the full 3 initial hits).

One thing I really like about the artificer is you don't have to specialize to have good xbow damage. It comes naturally to the class. That means you can still focus on something else and still have good ranged damage...and since ranged damage by itself isn't generally the greatest, that works out pretty well.

You'll still blow through quests solo WAY faster with a H-orc barbarian, a Sorc or even in many cases a Favored Soul. The pet is a blast...and quite useful...but certainly not a fast killer compared to spells or huge damage barbarians. Your ranged DPS is good vs trash mobs etc...but doesn't compare most of the time to a good melee build (two weapon or 2 handed). Your spells add a bit to other party members but you don't compare buff wise to a bard (or even to a cleric/fvs or wizard/sorc in many ways).

I'd qualify Artis as the soloist class. Made to allow new players to try out the game and enjoy quests by themselves the first time as easily as possible. Decent healing + a tank + automatic decent ranged damage + trap and detection skills = newbie friendly class.

Of course you can use clickies to detect secret doors with any class, healing is cake with potions even if you don't splash for wands or have UMD for scrolls and ranged combat can be done in most cases with just returning thrown weapons even in highly melee specialized builds.

So yeah...if you know the game you can get more out of most of the other classes, but artificers are new, fun, very solo friendly and have the best pet yet (my favorite part in fact).

I've made so many ranged specialized characters (basically every class and many combo's) it's nice to see a class that naturally is good at ranged and doesn't need any sacrifices (or very few) in order to continue to excell.

[Ziindarax]

From what I have seen ranged damage is still not OP...and since that and the pets are the strongest selling point for the Arti.....I don't think they are that out of whack.

Melee damage isn't comparable to a rogue at all. And ranged damage even with a dex/int build that goes with insightful damage (for the int bonus without taking rogue levels) still won't have the sneak attack damage bonus, favored enemy bonuses, arcane archer bonuses, weapon specialization bonuses etc of other classes. Don't get me wrong the ranged damage is good compared to other classes....it's just ranged combat is still not usually optimal throughout the game. That being said with the new repeating xbow setup + insightful damage + enchant bonuses to the xbows (elemental repeating xbow + elemental weapon + bonus from battle engineer and endless fussilage (just doubles damage output of the repeating xbow....but equivalent over all to multishot bow users) = quite good damage output from range.

With the new point blank shot though a rogue (who gets sneak attacks within point blank shot range I believe) using a repeating xbow is going to get off some serious damage (looks like you get the sneak attack bonus for the full 3 initial hits).

One thing I really like about the artificer is you don't have to specialize to have good xbow damage. It comes naturally to the class. That means you can still focus on something else and still have good ranged damage...and since ranged damage by itself isn't generally the greatest, that works out pretty well.

You'll still blow through quests solo WAY faster with a H-orc barbarian, a Sorc or even in many cases a Favored Soul. The pet is a blast...and quite useful...but certainly not a fast killer compared to spells or huge damage barbarians. Your ranged DPS is good vs trash mobs etc...but doesn't compare most of the time to a good melee build (two weapon or 2 handed). Your spells add a bit to other party members but you don't compare buff wise to a bard (or even to a cleric/fvs or wizard/sorc in many ways).

I'd qualify Artis as the soloist class. Made to allow new players to try out the game and enjoy quests by themselves the first time as easily as possible. Decent healing + a tank + automatic decent ranged damage + trap and detection skills = newbie friendly class.

Of course you can use clickies to detect secret doors with any class, healing is cake with potions even if you don't splash for wands or have UMD for scrolls and ranged combat can be done in most cases with just returning thrown weapons even in highly melee specialized builds.

So yeah...if you know the game you can get more out of most of the other classes, but artificers are new, fun, very solo friendly and have the best pet yet (my favorite part in fact).

I've made so many ranged specialized characters (basically every class and many combo's) it's nice to see a class that naturally is good at ranged and doesn't need any sacrifices (or very few) in order to continue to excell.

I beg to differ only on epic quests. It took me an hour (or more) on lama to kill the fire giant warlock in Epic Claw of Vulkoor. Granted, I used a sub-par build with less than sub-par gear so that may have made a huuuge difference.

Yet, even without min-maxed intelligence/dex I was able to get a decent glancing blow/hit with the occasional miss - a min-maxed ranged build would probably land hits reliably every time.

That being said, could someone test the solo theory on Epic quests?

[Caseas]

#1) Artificers get GOOD dps with repeaters, at an unlimited range. I'm talkin' about wiping entire enemy groups from across the map.

#2) Artificers get to help themselves and their party/raid members with unique buffs, i.e. a 900hp barb will become 990hp. Many, many weapons will now break every DR in the game with the right buff.

#3) A well built, equipped, and buffed artificer pet can do things like tank Suulo in ToD while the raid kills horoth.

#4) An artificer can shoot a crossbow, a rune arm, and cast a spell all at the same time.

#5) Artificers have the highest UMD in the game.

#6) Artificers are decent trappers, and even closer to a rogue's performance if they have the monk PL evasion clickie.

#7) Artificers are the only magic-device users who have a chance to not expend charges in their devices when used. Potentially extending usage of wands, scrolls, and clickies indefinitely.

#8) Lots of other stuff. Go try one :)

[Grace_ana]

Arties are only OP at low levels. Start hitting midlevels and you'll see what I mean.

As with all classes, I think some people will enjoy them and some won't. I thought I would like them, but when I played with one on Lama I was underwhelmed. However, there are other people that swear by them. If they don't seem like something you are enthusiastic about, then absolutely don't pay for one, that's silly. They'll still be there if you change your mind.

[ZzpxpzZ]

The only reason to play an Arti is the dog.

And that is a good enough reason.

He is OP. Its amazing to watch him climb a ladder, jump across the room like hes swimming in mid air, just to go medieval on a jug.

You can hot key him so you use him to open your levers instead of dirtying your own hands.

If you die, you can use him to grab your soulstone and run yourself back to the shrine.

[Grace_ana]

The only reason to play an Arti is the dog.

And that is a good enough reason.

He is OP. Its amazing to watch him climb a ladder, jump across the room like hes swimming in mid air, just to go medieval on a jug.

You can hot key him so you use him to open your levers instead of dirtying your own hands.

If you die, you can use him to grab your soulstone and run yourself back to the shrine.

Most of that is not WAI, though. I suspect it will be fixed in the next patch.

[Klebaum]

As fas as I have seen/heard in reagard of the arties, they seem to be a joker of all trades.
I.E:
No/Dead rougue? Second trapsmith.
Wrong gear/ <insert element here> mob? New buffs.
Agroo Issues? Pet/Turret
Healer out of Sp/Dead? AOE healing (expensive, but it's there if something goes wrong).
Non-arcane WF in the party (especially if it is yourself)? Repairs
Need ranged damage? Exotic ranged profency.
Self-death? Pet to the rescue!
Need damage? Turret
All of the above fails? Clikie/wand/scroll/UMD power

I hope I helped....

[rodrigocaruso]

I was thinking about tr ing into a 36pt arti, and this is most likely way off, but I dont see the point of this class.

Caster? no wizzy and sorc are better. Healer? no FS, cleric, or even wf wiz or sorc are better at repair. Rogue? not sure on this one because it seems with one level of rogue u can get all traps in game but 1 to 4 quest. DPS ? not even close, unless the heavy repeater post u11 is now going to be the weapon of choice and not the weapon of "new".

So with arti unlockable(only get by ddo points at this time) it seems like the reason to play this class is only because it is new. Please state a case for artificer. I would love to roll one, but when it will cost extra real money, I need a reason other then its new, haggle, umd bot. I already have a 36 wf wizzy rogue.

Let's see: They can heal, repair, have a melee fighter companion, shoot from distance while they fighter fights wix repeating and bracer, disable traps and open doors. The question is: what a full warforged artificers group can't do? Or what quests an artificer can't solo. Or, why would someone pick a rogue now?

[tinyelvis]

The reason artificers are fun is because they play like casters. You run and you gun with them. The reason the are popular is because, unlike casters, you don't need a lot of thought power or game knowledge to play them.

However at capped level this issue changes. The majority of builds I see will lead to lame high level toons. A month from now this honeymoon will be over. I see fields of blade barriers ineffectively spinning, and shouts from party members,

"Stop running around you fool so we can kill the red named."

[Darkrok]

Compare an Artificer to an 18/2 wizard/rog.

Single-target casting power: No comparison. Wizard wins.

Aoe casting power: Wizard wins but at least the arti shows up. Force enhancements + blade barrier can be very effective, especially if you have ways to offset the small sp pool.

Renewable (or very low cost) ranged damage power: Depends on the flavor of wiz/rog. Pale master isn't bad with the hp-cost attacks. Not as good as a repeater but at least it's something. An archmage with greater evocation focus could probably keep up using the SLA's. Other wizards wouldn't come close...but that's not their niche.

Traps: Definitely the wiz/rog for evasion.

Melee: An artificer makes a better melee toon than an 18/2 but building an artificer to have even passing melee ability will hurt in the casting and renewable ranged damage areas.

Buffs: Wiz/rog wins but Artificers have several unique buffs that add to the party's dps.

UMD: Obviously the artificer but the wiz/rog can have no-fail heal scrolls fairly easily as well. Artificers will be the best scroll healers in the game though, bar none, between their higher caster level and the ability to retain scrolls.

So basically, the reason to play an Arti from a strictly, "what do they do better" standpoint is if you like playing a support toon that leans heavily on UMD. I personally like those type of toons and will someday have 2 artificers - one human crafting toon that I'll TR my current crafter into and then a life or three of artificer on my caster project. Or at least I'll have those if I ever get the time. :P

[Aashrym]

Buffs: Wiz/rog wins but Artificers have several unique buffs that add to the party's dps.



Arti capstone plus the plethora of scrolls available at vendors plus the arti unique buffs and I would give that to an arti. The scrolls are not just a healing benefit (although arties also have potion admixtures for more healing too) ;)

Arti can splash for evasion and take insightful reflexes too, so that benefit does exist if a person is willing to give up the capstone.

[tinyelvis]

But how useful is that end game. Scrolls are only readily available to 7th level. By end game offensive versions of these will be vastly under powered.

The capstone sounds neat, but on close investigation it falls flat too. Take the brimstone for example. Probably one of the best items to apply this cap to. Even in it's new Dbf form, it still casts as a seventh level unheightened spell. This means **** all DCs. And poor to no performance end game. And that is not even taking into no meta, clickie or enhancement buffs.

Sorry, From an offensive capability point of view, the capstone is worthless.

[davidolson22]

Flame turret.

/end thread

[Theolin]

blade barrier - with enhancement line for extra damage - max/empowerd/lore/enhancements/75%clickie - that is a lot of damage
of course you have to have a decent DC to pull it off

and deadly weapons = 2x base damage of any weapon ... imagine what SoS would then be? then add DR bypass ....

[Robi3.0]

Q: Whats the point of Artificers?


A: PEW PEW PEW!

[Fallout]

I'm not a big fan of playing bards, doesn't seem to be that fun. But for some reason, artificers are a whole different ball game.

-Revamped ranged attacks. Makes xbows and repeaters viable. At least on low-mid level content.

-Self sufficient class. On solo play, you can bring a hireling, your dog and a summon. A party of 4. If you want to feel like a cyborg, get the construct essence feat and cast repair on yourself :)

-Pet. Just **** fun. Even though they're a big squishy now, its just fun to have one.

-Crafting bonuses.

Its just fun in low level groups to have an all-artificer group. The rain of bolts just destroys everything.

If you want top notch DPS, play another melee or caster. But if you want to play a very fun class, then artificer is it.

[Aashrym]

But how useful is that end game. Scrolls are only readily available to 7th level. By end game offensive versions of these will be vastly under powered.

The capstone sounds neat, but on close investigation it falls flat too. Take the brimstone for example. Probably one of the best items to apply this cap to. Even in it's new Dbf form, it still casts as a seventh level unheightened spell. This means **** all DCs. And poor to no performance end game. And that is not even taking into no meta, clickie or enhancement buffs.

Sorry, From an offensive capability point of view, the capstone is worthless.

Who said offensive scrolls? Using a scroll from any class spell buff that can be bought is just like having it on the spell list. That provides more buffing power than the spell list suggests.

For offense I would be happy with blade barrier, tactical detonation, and pew pew + rune arm. Maybe the occasional prismatic strike. Tactical detonation and prismatic strike both have a potential 30 dice of damage with large components of force damage in there and both carry saves for additional effects.

20d4 of force damage AoE with no save + 10d6 fire damage and knock down looks like 25 dice of damage in most cases even with poor DC's.

[JeffreyGator]

This,(firewall vs flame turret) although, unfounded, is at least a valid case. silver buff(so an arti can turn all weapons in party to silver based for a timer period?)

Good stuff. Any one think it will be wanted more then a bard at end game?

Also if u tr into one, do you keep your crafting levels? My crafter has around 64 to 67 levels and do not want to start over, as of now crafting seems to be a necessary evil, not fun, but the fun you get from wielding and wearing the items you make is well worth it (silver hly-pg).

Someone else has mentioned the flame turret. It has a couple of other advantages over a firewall.
1) does not get blown out by air elementals (but it can die)
2) with multiple artificers you can set up an overlapping field of effect and so many of these would be hitting at once.

Supposedly you keep crafting when TR'ing.

[Adrenas]

You all need to stop talking.

I was perfectly happy to reserve my stack of TP for later in the year, and wait on a discount for the class, but you dirty punks keep giving me good reasons to NOT wait, and go ahead now to pick it up... Now I'm kinda wishing I hadn't purchased FvS a few months ago... I might actually PLAY an Artificer.

Hahaha. I was going to do the same thing. What made me break was the guy in the Cannith Enclave with the dancing puppy. Then I had to buy it. Now turbine must give me the ability to make my puppy dance on its hind legs too. I want them to dance. I want it more than evasion.

[gurgar78]

With the new point blank shot though a rogue (who gets sneak attacks within point blank shot range I believe) using a repeating xbow is going to get off some serious damage (looks like you get the sneak attack bonus for the full 3 initial hits).

One thing I really like about the artificer is you don't have to specialize to have good xbow damage. It comes naturally to the class. That means you can still focus on something else and still have good ranged damage...and since ranged damage by itself isn't generally the greatest, that works out pretty well.

My pure Arti is half-elf with Rogue dill. The sneak attack damage is great and definitely lands on all 3 shots.

[eviltikiman]

Hahaha. I was going to do the same thing. What made me break was the guy in the Cannith Enclave with the dancing puppy. Then I had to buy it. Now turbine must give me the ability to make my puppy dance on its hind legs too. I want them to dance. I want it more than evasion.

I totally agree with Doggy dancing. Perhaps they could do it when you do (if done through emote) or though a "/petdance" command or something.

[tinyelvis]

Who said offensive scrolls? Using a scroll from any class spell buff that can be bought is just like having it on the spell list. That provides more buffing power than the spell list suggests.

For offense I would be happy with blade barrier, tactical detonation, and pew pew + rune arm. Maybe the occasional prismatic strike. Tactical detonation and prismatic strike both have a potential 30 dice of damage with large components of force damage in there and both carry saves for additional effects.

20d4 of force damage AoE with no save + 10d6 fire damage and knock down looks like 25 dice of damage in most cases even with poor DC's.

I thought you implied offensive scrolls. But it seems you just don't realize that any class with high UMD ( Wiz/Rog included ) can cast these scrolls. A capped arty is just another toon who can. So based on that the wiz/ Rog wins that category since he also cast the cool full str buffs.

As for offense, again if you are comparing to wiz rogue, I think you fall short again. Even if you really stress spells and take 2 evoc focus, 2 trans foc, heighten, max, and emp, your spell performance will still be less than an average wiz given your poor 6th level spell cap and no other inherent Dc buff. Even spec'd like this, in high end content, your blade barrier, and beam attacks will fizzle and do little to NO damade most of the time. Detonations is a nice spell, too bad they waste it on such a lame caster. However, it suffers from meteor swarm like issues, so don't expect to regularily see more than 75% damage. Not to mention poor save on part of damage and high cost of the spell. With super high DC and better spell capability, the wiz Rog obviously wins this category. Plus wiz can sustain damage with SLAs.

Pew, Pew..... Wiz Rog can get a repeater too. In fact, damage output comes closer to arty damage than arty spell damage does to wiz. However,obviously, arty wins here. The big million dollar question is, will the high Cbow damage be able to carry the arty into the role of a useful end game party member.

I don't know the answer here. I do know this, If arty bow damage is high enough end game, i.e. Comparable to melee, then this will break the game. for, there will be no point in playing melee.

Outside of that a wiz rogue seems to be a much more useful party member.

[Aashrym]

I thought you implied offensive scrolls. But it seems you just don't realize that any class with high UMD ( Wiz/Rog included ) can cast these scrolls. A capped arty is just another toon who can. So based on that the wiz/ Rog wins that category since he also cast the cool full str buffs.

EDITTED OUT AN ERROR. Some buffs have higher effects based on caster level and most have longer durations. Using a wand of stone skin soaking up 200 points of damage is a lot more than that same wand preventing 70 points of damage coming from a rogue or bard or anyone else using UMD. That's the benefit arties get - bonus to the caster levels of the items they are using.

I directly quoted a line that said "buffs" if you want to read back. ;)

For offense I would agree arties fall short on a wizard. I never said otherwise. Instant death and better crowd control plus multiple damage options on a wiz.

What I said was I am happy with blade barrier (force damage and force line of enhancements), tactical detonation (20 dice of aoe force damage portion that has no save against it plus potentially additional damage and knock down is pretty nice), and prismatic strike (3 different effects, 1 is force again and 1 is sonic, neither encounters much for resistance and 3 separate saves for a kicker effect. Giving up 3 spell levels doesn't seem so bad with 3 chances to fail and 15 dice of damage even if all 3 fail).

I'm holding out on deadly weapon to see how useful they are endgame. Planar weapon and adding metal type infusions might be useful for bypassing DR but that just seems too situational when a person already has ways to break DR.

[jonqrandom]

augment summon + pet enhancements. seriously. your pet is usually specced like an average fighter. augment summon is actually better than a +4 tome of supreme ability (and how much would you pay for that for your toon, huh?), as it adds extra health (on top of the con buff) and extra fort. my pet usually (ok, so far - always) has the highest HP in party - 141 at lvl 5 (not saying this is awesome, but it is good). phys stats are str/dex/con 23/20/23. 50% fortification (25% from augment, 25% from my light fort belt!). 27AC with DR2/Adamantine (so far) - and bypass same DR attacking. module giving keen/pure good (i admit - i need to test to make sure keen is working). next lvl i'm slotting a +1 fearsome docent, prolly gonna go with fearsome/invuln when i can - at which point nothing will be able to bypass both DRs, and the DR/Adamantine should be higher. +2 to sneak attacks and +3 to sneak damage - which will increase. increased threat gen.

oh, yh - and *then* it has me running support with my hellfire xbow (high dex, insightful damage next lvl i believe), rune arms, and other arti goodness - all in one party slot ;) i'm WF so i can heal myself, my pet, other WF *and* throw heal AoEs for fleshies. and spot/search/disarm/open.

as for dps - no point in calculating it seperately for arti and dog - we come as a single unit, and while i'm not a dps geek, i believe that as a unit our dps is at least useful if not great :)

also, everything everyone else said about arti benefits ;)

[tinyelvis]

No, I think you are the one who doesn't realize what's what. There is a huge difference between scrolling 20 minute shield, 2 minute haste, and elemental resist 30 on an arti than there is going by base caster level on those items. Some buffs have higher effects based on caster level and most have longer durations....

I directly quoted a line that said "buffs" if you want to read back... ;)

.

I'm not going to bicker with you. You keep changing your story until you happen on something correct. However, I will ask. How does an arti scroll caste a 2 min haste or a 20 min shield?

Scroll casting at capped level by art is not much different than other UMD classes. It's too bad. It would be helpful if capstone applied to scrolls, then you might see some of the minor effects that you mistakenly quote. However, even then the ability would be underpowered at end game for the reasons that I gave earlier.

The trouble with the arty and spell casting end game is that the designers have hit them with a big double whammy. Being a hybrid they reduced the spell selection, of course. However, they failed to give the class the means to adequately land the spells they have, or produce any sort of sustained spell damage. This is in my opinion a big flaw.

Being able to wand cast a nice stone skin does not make up for that.

Some solutions:
1. Throw out the near useless capstone and replace with one like bard. That is +2 to intelligence, and transmutation spells.

2. Add a spell like this

Points of pain
School: Transmutation
Lvl: arty, wiz, sorc 1
cost: 4
Meta: Max,Emp,qui,enlarge

1d2 untyped damage ( no save) and -1 to dex ( fort save no effect) per 2 caster levels. This spell causes one or more points of agonizing pain, potentially reducing the dexterity of foe.

A synergistic spell like this would go a long way to helping Arti with poor spell DCs plus it could act as a SLA or low cost sustained damage spell. This spell could also be added to Transmutation arch Mage and Earth sevant lists.

[djsonar919]

As you search for your reason to play an artificer, I'll be too busy playing mine and destroying mobs before the melees even get close to them.

[Carpone]

I was a bit ticked when I made the min/max decision that I'd "have" to TR my crafter into an artificer, but when I tested things out on laminia I was pleasantly surprised to find that the main reason I'd buy the class is...

I think it is a fun class to play.
Crafting is not difficult. There's no reason to TR into an Artificer just for that.

[Aashrym]

I'm not going to bicker with you. You keep changing your story until you happen on something correct. However, I will ask. How does an arti scroll caste a 2 min haste or a 20 min shield?

Apparently I am resistant to change or was in denial on my first capped arti on Lamma. +5 Caster levels on scrolls and still having 20 caster levels on wands and clickies can still be handy. It's more than other classes no matter how much you want to not bicker about it. I might reassess when I'm capped on live but I can still wand a 20 minute shield, 30 fire resist, etc. The buffs become more rare which is a pain but there is still some value there.

The story hasn't changed at any point tho. I quoted buffing and disputed buffing. You were the one who brought up anything regarding offense on my posts. To me that would look like me telling you were wrong about wizards having better offense because arties have mass healing effects. It was unrelated to my point in any way but you seemed to think it was a point of contention for some reason.

Scroll casting at capped level by art is not much different than other UMD classes. It's too bad. It would be helpful if capstone applied to scrolls, then you might see some of the minor effects that you mistakenly quote. However, even then the ability would be underpowered at end game for the reasons that I gave earlier. Yes, that is too bad. I did have a misconception that they would still be able and that is a disappointment. At least I can clear some of the scrolls out of my inventory.

The trouble with the arty and spell casting end game is that the designers have hit them with a big double whammy. Being a hybrid they reduced the spell selection, of course. However, they failed to give the class the means to adequately land the spells they have, or produce any sort of sustained spell damage. This is in my opinion a big flaw. [color=gold]This part I do not agree with. Most of the spells are buffs and a save vs 30 dice of damage and a knock down or take 25 dice of damage kind of makes the save less of an issue. Blade barrier is still used effectively by melee FvS's while arties can potentially have a bigger damage bonus.

Added some replies. There is no doubt in my mind arties are not potent casters or top damage. Don't read that into my comments and you will have less to try to not bicker about. ;)

I am editing my previous post because I did make an error.