Turbine just doesn't listen sometimes do they?

[Lyzernn]

Don't get me wrong, I think this new patch was great. New Class, some overall improvements and Bravery Bonus (My favourite). But why doesn't Turbine ask us for Feedback before releasing such thing? What is Lammania for if they don't listen to complains? If you take a look at the Suggestions & Ideas sub-section, you see a lot of good suggestions with pages and pages of /signed's, does Turbine see those threads? I'm not the kind to complain and I avoid to do so as much as I can, specially when certain issue has been debated over and over.

The point of this thread is to ponder whether Turbine listens to what us, costumers like/want/need. We all know the latest discussions and why people don't like them, some discussions however have no validity since they're just asking for silly nerfs/buffs to certain things, I'm certain Turbine isn't oblivious to what us players want, but the question stands: Will they change anything? Probably not, and that's why I won't make yet another thread about it. But I'm sad that so many players will be discriminated by elitists because of their HP and probably even SP and that's a real issue that needs to be figured out. UI needed a change, yes, but they missed all the right spots, I think a UI improvement on the points focused on my Signature Thread would be a much better update.

[DarkAlchemist]

WALL OF TEXT devastated me.

Fact is they haven't ever listened to us. Oh, they do listen when they have real people congregating around them at their live events but not much more.

The new Turbine I have a much hate and barely any love for but the old pre 'powered by our fans' Turbine I honestly loved.

[Lyzernn]

WALL OF TEXT devastated me.

Fact is they haven't ever listened to us. Oh, they do listen when they have real people congregating around them at their live events but not much more.

The new Turbine I have a much hate and barely any love for but the old pre 'powered by our fans' Turbine I honestly loved.

lol what wall of text? 2 measly paragraphs, you're telling me you can't focus for that long? :P

Anyway, I just don't see the point in them doing this, what do they benefit from it? Are they getting paid by some evil corporation telling them to ruin good games? /wonders

[DarkAlchemist]

lol what wall of text? 2 measly paragraphs, you're telling me you can't focus for that long? :P

Anyway, I just don't see the point in them doing this, what do they benefit from it? Are they getting paid by some evil corporation telling them to ruin good games? /wonders

Ahhh, you fixed it :P

No, it is called Warner Bros greed and this is not the only game Turbine makes that hasn't seen its fair share of the WB greed hitting.

[Cauthey]

I'm convinced that many at Turbine care, and are listening. However, it seems that the ones that care and are listening are being forced to answer to higher level management that doesn't give a rat's bottom about the game, or the community. And that higher level management has essentially said, "So what if the community gets mad. Do it anyway. What, are they going to cry home to mommy and rage-quit?"

[Lyzernn]

Ahhh, you fixed it :P

No, it is called Warner Bros greed and this is not the only game Turbine makes that hasn't seen its fair share of the WB greed hitting.

If it was something concerning Free players I would understand, but unless this is an indirect hit for players to start P2Ping to raise their HPs somehow (Not sure what items are in shop if any), the new UI won't increase their profit in any way, and so won't the Wings, or the Artificer thing (Which I honestly don't see the problem but many VIPs complained, I'm VIP as well)... 3 Major hits and none of them gives them any profit.

[AZgreentea]

Post P2P Turbine has done a lot of listening to their fans. Artificer was a requested class, and once U12 rolls around it will be a free class. Metamagics for individual spells, killing the Offer Wall, I really could go on if you would like.

From what I have heard, Turbine pre P2P was actually worse. You should still be able to find posts of the year leading up to P2P when there was almost no communication and everyone thought the game was dead.


Confirmation bias (also called confirmatory bias or myside bias) is a tendency for people to favor information that confirms their preconceptions or hypotheses (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypothesis) regardless of whether the information is true. As a result, people gather evidence and recall information from memory selectively, and interpret it in a biased way (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_bias). The biases appear in particular for emotionally significant issues and for established beliefs. For example, in reading about gun control (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics), people usually prefer sources that affirm their existing attitudes. They also tend to interpret ambiguous evidence as supporting their existing position

[Lyzernn]

Post P2P Turbine has done a lot of listening to their fans. Artificer was a requested class, and once U12 rolls around it will be a free class. Metamagics for individual spells, killing the Offer Wall, I really could go on if you would like.

From what I have heard, Turbine pre P2P was actually worse. You should still be able to find posts of the year leading up to P2P when there was almost no communication and everyone thought the game was dead.

You seem to have missed the first line of my post lol. I said I like a lot of the new stuff, but the new UI, and other stuff others have been complaining about do NOT negate the impact of the good things.

[DarkAlchemist]

You seem to have missed the first line of my post lol. I said I like a lot of the new stuff, but the new UI, and other stuff others have been complaining about do NOT negate the impact of the good things.
One thing is that by the time it hits Lamma ('the test server') it is pretty much a done deal. It is not a true test server and instead is a preview server. Same thing with Bullroarer in Lotro.

So, I still remember back when this game was beta testing F2P and bugs were being reported, some are still here, and Turbine would not listen UNTIL we reported a bug hitting the store and that was immediately fixed with the server being shut down for a hot fix the same day if I remember right.

[AZgreentea]

You seem to have missed the first line of my post lol. I said I like a lot of the new stuff, but the new UI, and other stuff others have been complaining about do NOT negate the impact of the good things.
Ah, sorry. :rolleyes: Work has been making me .. well work harder lately, and I cant focus at 6am like I used too. I also havent had time to focus on the forums. Which complaints are you referring too? The weird buggyness like DX11 needing a downloadable Microsoft fix or you get stuck in DX9, or the no helmet toggle if you had it off before the patch?

As far as the UI goes, I dont have any issues with it. Well, other than they need to release the art back so my fave skins can be updated. I turned off the view portraits, since I really dont need to see myself.

My only real experience with GM's has been reporting Gold Spammers (and I will give them the benefit of the doubt on how they 'fixed' it for me) and a negative experience where I eventually had to search the forums for why I couldnt access the Necro 1 flagged quest (I'll give you one guess as to why, even though it took me two days to figure out on my own).

[MrkGrismer]

I am sure they listen but 20-40 people typing /signed on a forum does not a mandate make.

For example, many, many people have said the new UI with hit points shown will lead to people being kicked and griefed in raids. But even reports on the forums seem to indicate that the 'actuals' on that one are really small, and those people probably would have wound up on a 'do not group with' list anyways when they kept getting 'dinged' by Gust of Wind.

There has been lots of 'chatter' about the wing clipping, but one of the dev's blogs indicated that they heard all the complaining and basically said 'they where over-powered anyway'.

So, they listen but there is a difference between listening and bending to the whims of forumers. They have a higher power to answer to: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQsjAbZDx-4&ob=av3n


(and they have stated repeatedly that neither Lam nor Mournlands are 'test servers' both are 'preview servers').

[Therigar]

The new Turbine I have a much hate and barely any love for but the old pre 'powered by our fans' Turbine I honestly loved.

^^ This.

Probably people at Turbine are just like the rest of us, some good, some bad and some somewhere in between.

But the company Turbine -- it just cares about one thing. And that one thing isn't its customers.

Then again, this isn't new. You'll find the same observations as you look through the forums concerning every release. Turbine does what it wants for whatever reasons it has and ignores the players.

It really has been this way for a very long time.

[Missing_Minds]

The point of this thread is to ponder whether Turbine listens to what us, costumers like/want/need.

1. consumers don't always know what is best. They may know what they like, but that isn't always what is good for them in the long run, or good for a game in the long run.

2. They do listen to us. Us being the forums, but you must remember we are a very small sampling of the over all huge player base. To make base changes based on a 2 people shouting in a crowd of 200 isn't necessarily a good idea. (Yes, sometimes very good ideas do get suggested on the forums.)

3. It will ALWAYS take time for changes to happen and things to change. It takes something major to make the corproate Ox move. Saddly, even though there were things to upset the player base in U11, I never saw anything large enough to move that Ox. Indeed... apparently the Ox agreed. (Why did I choose Ox? I had a flash back to Oregon Trail so I felt like it.)

[LucidLTS]

I'm convinced that many at Turbine care, and are listening. However, it seems that the ones that care and are listening are being forced to answer to higher level management that doesn't give a rat's bottom about the game, or the community. And that higher level management has essentially said, "So what if the community gets mad. Do it anyway. What, are they going to cry home to mommy and rage-quit?"

I totally agree with you, and will further add my amazement that they are so short sighted. Very few will rage quit, true, but this isn't binary it's a whole gray scale of satisfaction. Somebody unhappy but not unhappy enough to quit may continue to play but won't recruit friends - who would recruit friends to a downward trending concern? You just get a bad rep with your friends. And word of mouth is Turbines best advertising.

It's like a relationship between people - if you have a lot invested in a relationship you stick with it, but enough hurt and you build negative equity until you are no longer emotionally invested, then you start to look for other opportunities. And you'd think Turbine would be quaking in their boots with Neverwinter announcing they will be F2P too.

It just seems like it would be enlightened self interest to really listen to their customers and avoid changes that are universally (or even widely) hated. Turbine may squeak past Neverwinter, I hear Cryptic has a terrible track record, but NW won't be the last challenger and I'm willing to bet a ton of DDO players will give it a try because hey, it's free!

And I'd like to add, for the "in the trenches" Turbine employees to pass up to "management", that it scores a ton of resentment points when you you appear to ignore completely the cries of your customers. Sharing the justification for decisions might make your customers inclined to give you the benefit of the doubt, silence tells them you don't care what they think and nobody wants to be attached to someone who doesn't care.

I was once in a job where I had to conceal the truth from customers and I hated it. Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems like much of what I hear from the devs here echoes the verbal evasions that crept into my communications with customers when I was prohibited from being forthright. I feel for you guys, keep fighting for us.

[DarkAlchemist]

1. consumers don't always know what is best. They may know what they like, but that isn't always what is good for them in the long run, or good for a game in the long run.

2. They do listen to us. Us being the forums, but you must remember we are a very small sampling of the over all huge player base. To make base changes based on a 2 people shouting in a crowd of 200 isn't necessarily a good idea. (Yes, sometimes very good ideas do get suggested on the forums.)

3. It will ALWAYS take time for changes to happen and things to change. It takes something major to make the corproate Ox move. Saddly, even though there were things to upset the player base in U11, I never saw anything large enough to move that Ox. Indeed... apparently the Ox agreed. (Why did I choose Ox? I had a flash back to Oregon Trail so I felt like it.)
Then can you please explain why they ignore most of us on the forums yet listen strongly to the people who go to their yearly con like events? Same people only one is in their face literally and the other is just on the forums.

[Missing_Minds]

Then can you please explain why they ignore most of us on the forums yet listen strongly to the people who go to their yearly con like events? Same people only one is in their face literally and the other is just on the forums.

Do they ignore us? Well it certain can feel that way, but I've lost track of the number of times the mods have stated what they do, over and over and over.
Not having two way communication does not mean our concerns are not being ignored (not to say they may be disregarded at some point.) At least at the level that we have normal access to. The ones we have access to may not be allowed to respond back with the answers to the questions we have.

Your statements hint at the special case where Memier got ahold of a producer who actually makes such high level decisions. Verbal communication is not the same as a message board as I am certain you are aware of. Listen strongly? I doubt that one, honestly. They may feine interest, but when they get back to the office what then? Did anything really change? Doesn't look like it. To me it played out just like on the forums.

[Cordovan]

Dozens of bugs were reported and fixed through our Lamannia public preview process. We do take all bug reports seriously. This thread, however, is quickly devolving into personal attacks and insults, and is now closed.