Intermittent Borked Damage

[BOgre]

Posting this under melees cuz I figure best chance at someone else having same issue:

Guildy is a Level 18 Whirlwind khopesh Kensai. He's a Premium but hasn't bot points in quite some time, so in game support is a no go.
(http://my.ddo.com/character/thelanis/valkoor/) not sure if his myDDO is visible by all, there's the link.
For the last few levels of his progression he's had an intermittently occurring damage problem. Rather than doing damage in the high 90's to low 100's like he's used to, (before bonuses and elemental effects and crits of course) he now quite often falls to doing damage in the teens to 20's. We've checked all kinds of things like encumberance, stat damaging effects, any possible negative interactions in his gear, just everything we can think of. The problem will go away if he strips down and re-equips EVERYTHING, but only for a short time before reappearing. We know it's not a DR thing, as it occurs randomly on same type mobs.

Now, ingame, if he drops down his Details panel on the inventory page, his khopeshes look normal: 1d8 + 28 Slash, 13.30 base damage rating, and something like +30 or 40 bonus damage (depending on on/off-hand). Your basic numbers probably for a fighter of his level with average gear. So with 1d8+28, his orange numbered hits should be
doing 29-36, right? Well, no, actually, 59-66 after his Str bonus, and not to mention his buffs and whatever +'s his kensai line and masterys are giving him... not sure what all that would add up to as I can't play his toon myself. Anyways, even without bonuses and buffs and whatnot, there's just no way he should be hitting for less than 1d8 + 28, yet he's seeing numbers as low as 13!

Okay, so I linked his one khopesh off of his myDDO page here (you should be able to mouse over that to see it popup):

http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Special:DdoResource?id=1879052756&name=%2B5+Metalline+Khopesh+of+Slowburst

He has linked me that same weapon ingame, and nothing looks amis there, but notice how on the myDDO link (which is a compendium link, not sure if that matters), notice how it shows that its base damage rating is 5.40 and it's doing 1d8+0! K, I know myDDO is broken, but not THAT broken... What's going on here? How can a +5 khop have a bdr of 5.40 instead of the ingame descrip of 13.30? How can he be doing LESS damage now than he was at level 5?

Needless to say he's pretty frustrated and since there's no ingame help for him he's sort of at a dead end.

If any melees (or anyone at all) reading this have seen anything similar or know what is up or what to do about it, I'd really appreciate it. If he quits, I'll probably just break the guild and go join Monty's or something, but it sure would suck to loose my bud here.

Thanks in advance,
B.

[Ghost6989]

He is gimped, re-roll.

[Osharan_Tregarth]

Hmm.. Sounds like he's getting grazing hits damage instead of his regular damage.

Have him check out the combat log and see what the descriptions there look like. Maybe get a screenshot of them.

http://ddowiki.com/page/Grazing_Hit

Similar to how an attack roll of a natural 20 is a hit regardless of the target's Armor Class, DDO allows attacks to deal reduced damage instead of missing entirely if the total attack roll isn't enough to hit but the raw d20 result is close to 20. These are called a Grazing Hits.

Player characters get a Grazing Hit on misses where the natural roll is 10-19. Monsters need various rolls depending on the difficulty setting of the quest: 19 on Solo, 17-19 on Normal, 15-19 on Hard, and 13-19 on Elite. The Grazing Hit does damage only equal to the base damage of the weapon (such as 1d8 for a longsword) minus any Strength penalties. Damage bonuses from feats, Strength, magic weapons, and other sources do not apply to Grazing Hits. Grazing Hits won't work if the attacker is not proficient with the weapon, and PCs can't get them with offhand weapons.

Presently Sneak Attack damage is added to Grazing Hits, although that is at odds with developer announcements.

Grazing Hits are subject to Damage Reduction as usual, which can frequently reduce them to zero damage. There are additional sources of reduction to Grazing Hit damage:

Player characters automatically take half as much Grazing Hit damage as monsters do.
Wearing a buckler or light shield, or having the Shield spell on you, reduces Grazing Hit damage by 10%. A heavy shield reduces it by 25%. A tower shield reduces it by 50%.
Centered monks get a cumulative 10% reduction to incoming Grazing Hit damage every 4 levels.
Grazing Hits have their own combat log message and a special icon for heads-up damage display.

[BOgre]

gimped reroll. nice answer. go troll somewhere else please.

Screenies, I've asked, they're coming. In the meantime he's copy pasted some lines, and mostly they're like, '[combat](damage): you hit aurumm fighter for 13 points of slash damage.'
Pretty normal looking. He's twfing, so I'm not expecting to see grazes when he mails me his screenies, but i'll keep an eye out. any other ideas?

edit: sorry, i thought you meant glancing blows... k, grazes yes, i'm sure he gets grazes same as me. But his to-hit is great, and we're talking about lame arsed mobs in GH and such. Places where I'm doing normal damage, he's still getting terrible #'s. There's no way I should be out-damaging him and out-tohitting him. I'll keep an eye out for grazes in his combat log tho, thanks.

[t0r012]

gimped reroll. nice answer. go troll somewhere else please.

Screenies, I've asked, they're coming. In the meantime he's copy pasted some lines, and mostly they're like, '[combat](damage): you hit aurumm fighter for 13 points of slash damage.'
Pretty normal looking. He's twfing, so I'm not expecting to see grazes when he mails me his screenies, but i'll keep an eye out. any other ideas?

you are thinking glancing , not grazing hits.

glancing comes from THF , grazing comes from just not getting quite high enough of an attack roll, just like mobs get on you.

have that weird yellow spark kind of symbol on the weapon damage, also not subject to special weapon effects , and I'm not sure if it gets a bonus from str or other damage modifiers.


grazing would be my guess as well as i haven't seen wierd damage numbers like that, but i don't have any highish level TWF besides a monk.

[Osharan_Tregarth]

gimped reroll. nice answer. go troll somewhere else please.

Screenies, I've asked, they're coming. In the meantime he's copy pasted some lines, and mostly they're like, '[combat](damage): you hit aurumm fighter for 13 points of slash damage.'
Pretty normal looking. He's twfing, so I'm not expecting to see grazes when he mails me his screenies, but i'll keep an eye out. any other ideas?


Umm.. Keep in mind, that grazing hits(everyone in the game gets) are not the same as glancing blows(two handed fighting lines). They are two totally different game mechanics. If the screenshot shows up what I'm expecting, the next line up in his combat log from this
[combat](damage): you hit aurumm fighter for 13 points of slash damage.'
will mention something about grazing hit success.

I can't see MYDDO characters here at work, but I'll take a look at that character posted later on and see if anything stands out.

[t0r012]

Hmm.. Sounds like he's getting grazing hits damage instead of his regular damage.

Have him check out the combat log and see what the descriptions there look like. Maybe get a screenshot of them.

http://ddowiki.com/page/Grazing_Hit

nice find on the graze Os

I never knew centered monks got a bonus and I run a monk.

[BOgre]

yes, already corrected my reply up there, misread grazing/glancing.

But as I was saying, his strength is crazy higher than mine, I can't imagine why his to-hit would be less than mine. He's not seeing any misses either. just low damage. How can it be that he's getting all grazes and no solid hits? I WILL be looking into that for him though, thanks! I wonder if he did something stupid like take weapon finesse or something... but even then, doesn't wf take whichever is higher for the attack mod? Anyways, the thing is that it's intermittent. If he removes all gear and re-equips, his numbers go back to normal for a little while before dropping again later on. And whatabout that crazy myddo link for his +5 metalline? Still pretty puzzling.

edit: looked up wf, and i guess it can't be that.... maybe he's stuck in Defensive Fighting mode?

[Osharan_Tregarth]

yes, already corrected my reply up there, misread grazing/glancing.

But as I was saying, his strength is crazy higher than mine, I can't imagine why his to-hit would be less than mine. He's not seeing any misses either. just low damage. How can it be that he's getting all grazes and no solid hits? I WILL be looking into that for him though, thanks! I wonder if he did something stupid like take weapon finesse or something... but even then, doesn't wf take whichever is higher for the attack mod? Anyways, the thing is that it's intermittent. If he removes all gear and re-equips, his numbers go back to normal for a little while before dropping again later on. And whatabout that crazy myddo link for his +5 metalline? Still pretty puzzling.

edit: looked up wf, and i guess it can't be that.... maybe he's stuck in Defensive Fighting mode?

Well, here is my standard list of questions for people that might be having to hit issues, slightly tailored towards your friends character on myddo. (I was able to bring it up on my phone. Stupid work networks...)

Power attack?
Combat expertise?
Khopesh feat?
Oversized twf'ing?
Defensive fighting?
Wearing a str item? (Myddo showed him at a 30 str., which isn't real high for end game, but isn't horribly abnormal)
Actually using the kensai stance? (meaning double check and make sure that the icon didn't get accidently moved, and he's not turning on some other bonus instead of the correct one)
Kensai specc'd for Khopesh? (With the elven racial bonuses, khopesh wouldn't have been my first choice for weapons)

[Osharan_Tregarth]

nice find on the graze Os

I never knew centered monks got a bonus and I run a monk.

Heh. I didn't either until I looked at the article.

[BOgre]

will check all those. thanks. never played a pure fighter so i'll have to have him walk me through each page of his stuff to check it all... will post an update later tonite. but as I said, this is new. He's being doing fine up till just recently. I know he has all his twf feats and khop specs...

[Feithlin]

yes, already corrected my reply up there, misread grazing/glancing.

But as I was saying, his strength is crazy higher than mine, I can't imagine why his to-hit would be less than mine. He's not seeing any misses either. just low damage. How can it be that he's getting all grazes and no solid hits? I WILL be looking into that for him though, thanks! I wonder if he did something stupid like take weapon finesse or something... but even then, doesn't wf take whichever is higher for the attack mod? Anyways, the thing is that it's intermittent. If he removes all gear and re-equips, his numbers go back to normal for a little while before dropping again later on. And whatabout that crazy myddo link for his +5 metalline? Still pretty puzzling.

edit: looked up wf, and i guess it can't be that.... maybe he's stuck in Defensive Fighting mode?

Look in the combat log for his attack roll when he gets this low damage. Could you tell us what it says?

[BOgre]

Well, i'm pretty stumped. his combat logs are normal, roll to hit, solid hit, **** damage. no DR comments or graze comments. His level 18 toon is doing the same damage as his level newly rolled level 5. all feats and enhancements are there, no stance issues.

[Memek]

Sounds odd.

Is he using a crafted weapon?

[BOgre]

Sounds odd.

Is he using a crafted weapon?

All his khops are lootgen + Risia Icy Burst. Mine are lootgen + risia also, haven't noticed any borkage on mine.

[karl_k0ch]

This might be a long shot but: Precision (http://ddowiki.com/page/Precision) accidentally switched on, or otherwise bugged on him?

[CanuckWisdom]

I want to know how he does '90+ damage' per hit on a regular hit before crits and effects.

[mystafyi]

did he equip a bugged pair of handwraps? there is a bug that will perma-gimp you. :confused:

[BOgre]

I want to know how he does '90+ damage' per hit on a regular hit before crits and effects.

ah, now see, THIS is a good question. I don't play a fighter, so for all I know he could be completely out to lunch. I do know that he used to one or two hit pretty much all at-level trash, and rarely ever lost agro while we duo'd (except for when i'm on multishot). Now he's needing 5-10 swings on trash mobs, and I commonly steal his agro while meleeing. So SOMEthing is off... I've yet to get any screenies from him comparing his 'good' damage with his 'bad'.


did he equip a bugged pair of handwraps? there is a bug that will perma-gimp you. :confused: never uses handwraps.


This might be a long shot but: Precision (http://ddowiki.com/page/Precision) accidentally switched on, or otherwise bugged on him? nope.

[CanuckWisdom]

If your an archer, it could be that your attack speed and damage has increased now with the last patch. That wouldnt lower his damage though.

[WruntJunior]

Posting this under melees cuz I figure best chance at someone else having same issue:

Guildy is a Level 18 Whirlwind khopesh Kensai. He's a Premium but hasn't bot points in quite some time, so in game support is a no go.
(http://my.ddo.com/character/thelanis/valkoor/) not sure if his myDDO is visible by all, there's the link.
For the last few levels of his progression he's had an intermittently occurring damage problem. Rather than doing damage in the high 90's to low 100's like he's used to, (before bonuses and elemental effects and crits of course) he now quite often falls to doing damage in the teens to 20's. We've checked all kinds of things like encumberance, stat damaging effects, any possible negative interactions in his gear, just everything we can think of. The problem will go away if he strips down and re-equips EVERYTHING, but only for a short time before reappearing. We know it's not a DR thing, as it occurs randomly on same type mobs.

Now, ingame, if he drops down his Details panel on the inventory page, his khopeshes look normal: 1d8 + 28 Slash, 13.30 base damage rating, and something like +30 or 40 bonus damage (depending on on/off-hand). Your basic numbers probably for a fighter of his level with average gear. So with 1d8+28, his orange numbered hits should be
doing 29-36, right? Well, no, actually, 59-66 after his Str bonus, and not to mention his buffs and whatever +'s his kensai line and masterys are giving him... not sure what all that would add up to as I can't play his toon myself. Anyways, even without bonuses and buffs and whatnot, there's just no way he should be hitting for less than 1d8 + 28, yet he's seeing numbers as low as 13!

Okay, so I linked his one khopesh off of his myDDO page here (you should be able to mouse over that to see it popup):

http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Special:DdoResource?id=1879052756&name=%2B5+Metalline+Khopesh+of+Slowburst

He has linked me that same weapon ingame, and nothing looks amis there, but notice how on the myDDO link (which is a compendium link, not sure if that matters), notice how it shows that its base damage rating is 5.40 and it's doing 1d8+0! K, I know myDDO is broken, but not THAT broken... What's going on here? How can a +5 khop have a bdr of 5.40 instead of the ingame descrip of 13.30? How can he be doing LESS damage now than he was at level 5?

Needless to say he's pretty frustrated and since there's no ingame help for him he's sort of at a dead end.

If any melees (or anyone at all) reading this have seen anything similar or know what is up or what to do about it, I'd really appreciate it. If he quits, I'll probably just break the guild and go join Monty's or something, but it sure would suck to loose my bud here.

Thanks in advance,
B.

Three things I've noticed to address from this post.

First, my.ddo is borked for items, among many other things. Don't really trust it for anything.

Second of all, as a non-capped twf toon that isn't loaded in epic gear, it's not possible for him to hit in the 90s-100s. 30s-40s would be what I'd expect on a first life toon. He may crit for 90s-100s, or higher, but that won't be his normal damage.

Third, when your inventory says something like "1d8+28" it's already factored in your str bonus, kensai weapon bonuses, and similar things. Only things it doesn't factor in are things that only work on some enemy types (like favored enemy) or things that don't affect base damage.

[Pikeman]

For what it's worth, I've noticed something similar going on with my pally since update 11. He is currently TRed at level 10, and with full buffs he would typically do 40-45 damage per hit (non-crit THF with power attack). However, since update 11 it seems like something is amiss with targeting that causes him to only get glancing blows (maybe 10 hps) sometimes. This is especially noticeable when fighting things that are moving, or while moving. This may be related to the known "weapon proximity issue", but it seems more like autotargetting is borked.

[BOgre]

Second of all, as a non-capped twf toon that isn't loaded in epic gear, it's not possible for him to hit in the 90s-100s. 30s-40s would be what I'd expect on a first life toon. He may crit for 90s-100s, or higher, but that won't be his normal damage.

Third, when your inventory says something like "1d8+28" it's already factored in your str bonus, kensai weapon bonuses, and similar things. Only things it doesn't factor in are things that only work on some enemy types (like favored enemy) or things that don't affect base damage.

Yes, I see what you're saying for sure... but see, i've duo'd with him all this time, and back at level 5 he was one hitting stuff. He'd level up and fill me in on his new damage #'s, by level 18 he was claiming 80's-100's, with ~300pt crits. I mean I saw the one-hits with my own eyes. And the aggro issue as well. Now, I'm giving him the ben of the doubt till he shows me screenshots, but I don't discount exaggeration on his part.
As to the 1d8+28, doesn't that mean he should be getting a minimum damage of 29? How can he be hitting for for less than that on non-grazes? And when he uses his power surge and damage boost, that should be at least up in the 30's to 40's, right?

[Jubbers]

He could be suffering the same effect that monks have had to deal with for quite some time.

I have also noticed this type of issue on my 2monk/11 pally starting from u11, but to correct the issue I fire off a divine favor and everything snaps in and corrects itself.

The work around is to equip something that applies an attack bonus modifier like korthos goggles or some other spell effect to cause the game to recalculate to hit and damage bonuses.

Sounds like a hit of 13 looks like a 1d8 + 5 to 12 and non of that would make any sense for a high level kensi fighter with a bangin strength.

if he's seeing the **** numbers and hits power surge does that effect the hit and dam by more then 4?
Divine favor clickies may assist with the issue or insite to hit bonuse items.

[BOgre]

Yeah, he's stubborn, and hates hotbars. It'll take some phenagling to get him to buy pots and hotbar them. I kno I kno, i've been fighting this battle with him for a while. :) Thanks.

[SensaiRyu]

So... several times and on more than one toon ... I come back from a quest and beat my dummy :eek:

The dummy makes a popping sound when I hit it and turns red. I haven't tried to look into it too hard but changing wraps/swords doesn't fix it. Yesterday I got something like 20+immune+5+immune. [Edit] This reminds me of using unstable handwraps on the dummy. But I was using a GS holy acid exc con greatsword in this case.

After I hear the reset noise (where my clickies recharge) I get regular dmg again - 90+5.

I haven't seen this happen in dungeons as you have.

Good suggestion someone made about looking at the combat log. I'll do it when it happens again (it occurs often, not all the time).

As for the reroll troll comment: back in U9 I LR'd my monk and got the ghost touch bug. Didn't have it before I LR'd...
But it was a funny suggestion :D

[WruntJunior]

Yes, I see what you're saying for sure... but see, i've duo'd with him all this time, and back at level 5 he was one hitting stuff. He'd level up and fill me in on his new damage #'s, by level 18 he was claiming 80's-100's, with ~300pt crits. I mean I saw the one-hits with my own eyes. And the aggro issue as well. Now, I'm giving him the ben of the doubt till he shows me screenshots, but I don't discount exaggeration on his part.
As to the 1d8+28, doesn't that mean he should be getting a minimum damage of 29? How can he be hitting for for less than that on non-grazes? And when he uses his power surge and damage boost, that should be at least up in the 30's to 40's, right?

At low levels, things die really easy...that have low health compared to how much damage you do. Up to level 10-12, it's not uncommon to kill things in 1-2 hits.

For his damage, as a pure fighter with really good gear and good buffs, he will probably hit for 60s or so. At cap, with things like bard buffs.

As far as the hits, keep in mind that the off hand has 1/2 str applied rather than full strength. the higher your str is, the more noticeable this is.

[rokes]

Probably off topic- but I think it's the same bug, has anyone had a similar problem with a caster type??

Sometimes I go around casting spells, dealing 150-200 avg damage, then out of nowhere, drops to around 70-90 gimp dmg. It seems like the 75% pots/clickies stop affecting my spells.

I'll try to take some pics if I can, it's getting very annoying

[giggiddy]

So... several times and on more than one toon ... I come back from a quest and beat my dummy :eek:

The dummy makes a popping sound when I hit it and turns red. I haven't tried to look into it too hard but changing wraps/swords doesn't fix it. Yesterday I got something like 20+immune+5+immune. [Edit] This reminds me of using unstable handwraps on the dummy. But I was using a GS holy acid exc con greatsword in this case.

After I hear the reset noise (where my clickies recharge) I get regular dmg again - 90+5.

I haven't seen this happen in dungeons as you have.

Good suggestion someone made about looking at the combat log. I'll do it when it happens again (it occurs often, not all the time).

As for the reroll troll comment: back in U9 I LR'd my monk and got the ghost touch bug. Didn't have it before I LR'd...
But it was a funny suggestion :D

The first immune is from holy damage and the 2nd one is from bleeding effect of min II prolly

[WruntJunior]

Not to mention, the dummy was then helpless.

[Torin17]

I have seen similar issues with my Bard and Ranger when attacking the training dummy. Sometimes my base damage (the first number) is where it should be (in the low 40s) and other times it is about half what it should be (in the low 20s).

I will try switching items to get the ToHit to recalculate but it is not a hitting issue, it is strictly a damage issue.

I don't keep such a close eye on mobs so I don't know if it is an issue beyond the training dummy. Darn dummy. :)

Tas

[BOgre]

Well I've seen it with my own eyes now. I'll post the shots he sent me in a bit. Fight in GH, damage in the 20's and 30's. Go hit the dummy, same. Power surge and other buffs no help. Beat the dummy and start again, damage in the 50's 60's. Go to GH, damage back to 20's 30's, buffs, DF, DP, no help. It's not grazing hits, it's not DR. Turbine tech support sends a 'we can't help' form letter. Started sometime around U10.

[WruntJunior]

Well I've seen it with my own eyes now. I'll post the shots he sent me in a bit. Fight in GH, damage in the 20's and 30's. Go hit the dummy, same. Power surge and other buffs no help. Beat the dummy and start again, damage in the 50's 60's. Go to GH, damage back to 20's 30's, buffs, DF, DP, no help. It's not grazing hits, it's not DR. Turbine tech support sends a 'we can't help' form letter. Started sometime around U10.

Are you saying the damage increases after he kills the dummy the first time, without resetting the ship or anything? Because if so, that's just because killing the dummy once makes it helpless, which makes it take more damage.

[CanuckWisdom]

Yea, if you dont see the dmg on a regular montser, it might just be that the dummy is helpless from being beat on recently.

[BOgre]

Hmm, the dummy beatings weren't consecutive, there was some gh in between, but not much. Less than 5 minutes. When does the dummy reset? And now I'm starting to see the issue. We mostly duo (remember?) and I used to use cursespewing and enfeebling khops. So if the mobs were helpless back then, and he was getting big hits thinking that was the norm. Now I mostly use different stuff, and he's not getting the benefit of my de-buffing the mobs... Unless I switch to those occasionally. Okay, back to the drowring board for more testing, but this actually seems like it may be the deal.
What should I look for in the combat log if I'm going to curse/enfeeb for him?

[dnevill]

Difficult to say. If he had on/put on an item giving him a sneak attack bonus, you could check for him getting sneak attacks in while he still has aggro. I take advantage of rendering mobs helpless as much as I can while solo, so I still get said sneak attacks in, but I don't recall seeing anything in the combat log to label the 50% damage increase to regular hits against helpless mobs...it just happens.

Into the Deep drops Ring of Venom, probably the easiest non-weapon source of sneak attack to farm (or brawling gloves when Cove comes back up on Wednesday). It's an easy mod to craft, but he'd have to swap it onto one of his khopeshes. Of course if he has Tharnes or other sneak attack goggles, he's probably already wearing them :D

[BOgre]

Well, I was hopeful we were on the right track there, but he's not really cooperating with the process any more. He's frustrated and quitting. Kinda bummed about it, but whatever. I guess I get to be guild leader now :(

and it's not likely to be any SA item like Tharnes. He's f2p except for Deleras, and he's not done ANY crafting at all. Not cove either, he only got a hat last time it was up. I guess our we're not likely to get to the bottom of it now...

[Feithlin]

Well I've seen it with my own eyes now. I'll post the shots he sent me in a bit. Fight in GH, damage in the 20's and 30's. Go hit the dummy, same. Power surge and other buffs no help. Beat the dummy and start again, damage in the 50's 60's. Go to GH, damage back to 20's 30's, buffs, DF, DP, no help. It's not grazing hits, it's not DR. Turbine tech support sends a 'we can't help' form letter. Started sometime around U10.

The dummie is helpless if it was killed and someone stayed in the ship until someone else came to hit it again. Even you have done GH quests in between, if another guildie has beaten the dummie, if another one was in the ship until you came in, the dummie would be in helpless state. The next time, it had just reseted, because the ship was empty at some point.
If you want to test, let him attack the dummie after you have destroyed it, so that it will always be helpless (since you can't control who destroyed it before).