Race for paladin in U11?

[Fecerak]

So, after U11 Helves and humans get a nice buff to human versatility. I have kinda wanted to make a paladin for a while, but the main issue is that I dunno how to spread my stats as a 32 pt TWF build. I could get a +2 tome or two if necessary for the early levels, but I would prefer to save my money for tomes to arties, and crafting after U11 hits live. So thus I needa find a decent build that isn't TOO tome-intensive

I could do drow 15/16/12/10/8/17, and helf 14/16/12/10/8/16, or a similar spread as human. I can see from the racial enhancements that helf and human could get lots of more damage compared to drow, but with all the nice enhancements that paladins can get its kinda tough to fit in versatility IV in addition to everything else.

Also, another issue is taht I kinda want khopesh, but I am not sure how to fit it into my build.
I need:
3xTWF
ICrit
Power Attack
Toughness

Also really useful:
Extend
OTWF
EWP: Khopesh

I am kinda unsure about how to fit it all. I suppose I could go human, although that loses 10.5 SA damage per swing compared to helf. Any suggestions?

[-Zyxas-]

My suggestion is that all of your arguments against yourself are very good. Drow doesn't get MUCH benefit other than stats, but keep in mind enhancements are very tight on paladins so that may be a benefit. Human's skill points vs HElf are not to be underestimated on a paladin (balance, UMD, if somewhat tank focused you WILL want intim), and the feat is very useful. HElf dilletante can add lots of dps (or other versatility), and humans and half-elves get damage boosts for large damage additions. Depends on preference by my evaluation.

EDIT: Khopesh is usally a good DPS investment, especially compared to OTWF (only really useful in some epics) and extent (minimal bonus from only needing to rebuff half as often). Imo, OTWF is best used on a fighter who doesn't want another toughness or tactic, or on a ranger for which it's generally accepted to be the best choice for a Tempest 3 prerequisite. One can live without extend, one can live without a small portion of DPS from khopeshes. One can also go human.

[Fecerak]

Currently I am trying to level a human, but I feel like half-elf isnt a bad choice either. With the new human versatility the damage boost will probably beat the easier access to higher DMight that drow has fairly easily. Main reason for human over half-elf though, is that 1. I get more skill points which is useful, and 2. I get just enough feats to get what I feel like I need. That said, I feel like paladins should get 2 extra build points or something like that to help balance out the insane stat requirements they have.

[Battlehawke]

Otwf isn't that necessary. You shouldn't have any problems hitting at higher levels. Khopesh is the way to go if you are going TWF and worth the feat. Extend is also great, for self buffing and most importantly extending the highly coveted pally spell Zeal. If you are going Human that's the way to go with feats. Also go with 15 Dex and make a +2 tome happen. Put the extra point into str.

Also of note, a Dwarf dual wielding DAxes Pally Makes a great tank too. WF & Horc can add for hate tanks, but I would make those THF's. & 2 levels of Rogue or Monk add evasion (& Feats or Max UMD). Two levels of Ftr could be nice too for the Feats, Str, Haste and Tower Sield for free. So much to consider....

[smeggy1384]

Have to agree with those saying OTWF isn't that great, on my pally by level 8 or so i was looking to swap it out, being relatively new and bad at saving up coins(though i have had incredible luck on the shard drops, just cant avoid the AH!) made it too expensive to swap it out. If i remade, or made another pally, no OTWF for me.

[Alex301]

You could go human 18 paladin/ 2 rogue. You'll gain an extra feat from human, 1d6+3 sneak attack damage and evasion, haste boost, UMD etc from rogue.

The downside to human/helves on most builds in the limited number of action boosts though; you'll only get 2.5 minutes between each shrine of top performance. After the human damage boosts have run out then races like half orc will deal more damage.

[lord_of_rage]

You could go human 18 paladin/ 2 rogue. You'll gain an extra feat from human, 1d6+3 sneak attack damage and evasion, haste boost, UMD etc from rogue.

The downside to human/helves on most builds in the limited number of action boosts though; you'll only get 2.5 minutes between each shrine of top performance. After the human damage boosts have run out then races like half orc will deal more damage.

At 32 builds twf horc will not deal more damage. Horcs are great at 36 points when you have the stats but untill then humans are better when twf.. Horc cant afford the stat requirements for dm4 at 32points. Considering dm is worth double the str per lvl for dmg Id rather have a human with dm4. Also horcs are hard to fit all the ap goodies in with as pallys are very ap heavy.

[Alex301]

It's been a while since i last played a paladin but couldn't you just lower the str to increase the charisma as needed? Half orcs also get +2 str and +3 PA damage just from their enhancements which trumps the +2 damage DM4 has over DM3

[Indoran]

So, after U11 Helves and humans get a nice buff to human versatility. I have kinda wanted to make a paladin for a while, but the main issue is that I dunno how to spread my stats as a 32 pt TWF build. I could get a +2 tome or two if necessary for the early levels, but I would prefer to save my money for tomes to arties, and crafting after U11 hits live. So thus I needa find a decent build that isn't TOO tome-intensive

I could do drow 15/16/12/10/8/17, and helf 14/16/12/10/8/16, or a similar spread as human. I can see from the racial enhancements that helf and human could get lots of more damage compared to drow, but with all the nice enhancements that paladins can get its kinda tough to fit in versatility IV in addition to everything else.

Also, another issue is taht I kinda want khopesh, but I am not sure how to fit it into my build.
I need:
3xTWF
ICrit
Power Attack
Toughness

Also really useful:
Extend
OTWF
EWP: Khopesh

I am kinda unsure about how to fit it all. I suppose I could go human, although that loses 10.5 SA damage per swing compared to helf. Any suggestions?

Go drow... and 18/2 with rogue (evasion will give you a lot of survivability) would be good but you will need hp items. I made one when I hit 20 I was at 414 hp (12 starting con) which is squishy, but with gs and some equipment I got her to 519 hp and she rarely died thx to evasion and loh. also rogue allows you to have better UMD.

Also I went with rapiers ... not a bad decision for pallies due to their dps depending on crits. but then I tr'ed and went human blitz with khopesh... humbling experience there lol blitz is another dimension, but pally pl rocks :P

[Fecerak]

Well, one main thing that I forgot to mention is that I dislike playing drow and elves since they look like they are female even when male, but even then, I feel like Human/Helf would be a stronger choice once U11 hits live because of the improved damage boost from human versatility.

Also, I'd rather not use any +2 tomes to qualify for feats on this char, since I know I'll need my cash to buy such tomes for my artificers once U11 hits live.

[kuro_zero]

I think an artificer will perform better without a bunch of +2 tomes. Paladins, especially TWF are notoriously feat starved, AP starved, and suffer from MAD (multiple attribute dependancy) and thus greatly benefit from whatever +2 tomes you can throw at it.

Elf, drow, and halfling due to bonus to DEX makes qualifying for the 17 dex needed for iTWF and gTWF much easier (6 build points + 1 Tome) while human or helf needs either 8 build points + 2 tome, or 10 + 1 tome.

while the damage boost change is great and human versatility, paladins more than any other class will have a have hard time sparing the AP to get them.

[NaturalHazard]

would a healing meta be good? especially if you got a torc and use some clickies and pots to boost your healing? sub ardour pots clickies. I have maximize on my ranger and never regretted it.

[NaturalHazard]

i mean wouldnt a 2wf paladin need at least a +2 dex tome for 17 dex? I mean paladins are feat starved, skill point starved and attribute point starved especially a twf paladin?

If any charactor was going to need an investment in tomes wouldnt it be the paladin? the artificer could prob go longer without tomes?

[RTN]

Also, I'd rather not use any +2 tomes to qualify for feats on this char, since I know I'll need my cash to buy such tomes for my artificers once U11 hits live.

For a feat starved class like pally, I like human for the extra feat. However, for a twf build on a 32pt build, you'll almost need to buy a +2 dex tome. If you aren't willing to invest in it, I don't think you'll want to do this. You have too many other important stats on a pally to not invest in that tome.

[Atremus]

I'd go Human personally. The extra feat and skill point are worth it on a class that needs everything.

Junts Guide (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=218542) has a 32point Human TWF in it. Build # 9

[lord_of_rage]

It's been a while since i last played a paladin but couldn't you just lower the str to increase the charisma as needed? Half orcs also get +2 str and +3 PA damage just from their enhancements which trumps the +2 damage DM4 has over DM3

Good luck fitting all that into the build. Paladins are really tight with aps. Most horcs wont have the cha at 32 points to fit dm3 in on a twf build. You are looking at a 14 or 15 cha max. So youll need a +3 or 4 tome to fit dm3 in. If you are going defender with the new update you really wont have the aps to squeeze pa3 and the str enchancements in. You will already be insanely tight on aps. Even on a kotc you will have issues. And the horc only gets +1 str over a human from ap abilities.

[eulogy098]

I prefer WF for my paladins simply because WF are not enhancement dependent (the only quality enhancements WF have are Rank 1 Healer friend and Power Attack...) and paladins are extremely tight on APs so this is a larger benefit then it may appear at first glance.

It's very difficult to get all of the great Paladin enhancements AND the half orc lines or human adaptability and healing amp, you end up sacrifice enough Paladin enhancements that you're looking at a net wash of damage.

[lord_of_rage]

I prefer WF for my paladins simply because WF are not enhancement dependent (the only quality enhancements WF have are Rank 1 Healer friend and Power Attack...) and paladins are extremely tight on APs so this is a larger benefit then it may appear at first glance.

It's very difficult to get all of the great Paladin enhancements AND the half orc lines or human adaptability and healing amp, you end up sacrifice enough Paladin enhancements that you're looking at a net wash of damage.

WF are great thf paladins at 32pts but twf they suffer from the same issues horcs do.