when will I stop being 'needy'?

[Ryan220]

Hello all,

Im not talking needing in physical items like plat or gear as Im reasonably well sorted. Im talking needy regarding recieving thanks.


On my TR Chanter I spend a lot of time and resource ensuring that the group gets buffs, songs, heals, recons, casting debuffs etc and it still bothers me that I rarely get any thanks for my efforts.


EDIT ADDED.......Im referring to doing things beyond what is normally expected of a class

In Guild runs we all thank one another for what we recieve and the feel good factor is great

Will I ever get over this need for appreciation?

Perhaps Im just odd?

Maybe I should

a) 'shut up already, youre a buffbot so just do your job'
b) sit back with chest swelling pride knowing that the success of the quest was largely due to my efforts
c) rage quit and decide to Pike every quest from now on like a true poorly played Bard should


Ok, so its a bit tongue in cheek, but I cant help but feel a little unappreciated sometimes

:-)

[Rydin_Dirtay]

You're playing a Bard. Get used to being underappreciated.

[Alabore]

I tried playing a female elven cleric.
I made up a clearly dominant persona for her.
Gave her dark spiky armour and a truly cruel streak.

She'd charge first, boss people around, and tell them to behave, or she'd stop healing and let their stones to rot in sewer water.
She was a blast to play and people would say "yes, mistress".

...

I think that was the only time I actually had fun playing a cleric.

:)

[Sequell]

Mommy not give you enough hugs as a child?! Lol!

It's a MMO, if you want thanks from players you are looking in the wrong place. No class in DDO necessarily REQUIRES another to succeed.

[gerardIII]

Hello all,

Im not talking needing in physical items like plat or gear as Im reasonably well sorted. Im talking needy regarding recieving thanks.


On my TR Chanter I spend a lot of time and resource ensuring that the group gets buffs, songs, heals, recons, casting debuffs etc and it still bothers me that I rarely get any thanks for my efforts.

In Guild runs we all thank one another for what we recieve and the feel good factor is great

Will I ever get over this need for appreciation?

Perhaps Im just odd?

Maybe I should

a) 'shut up already, youre a buffbot so just do your job'
b) sit back with chest swelling pride knowing that the success of the quest was largely due to my efforts
c) rage quit and decide to Pike every quest from now on like a true poorly played Bard should


Ok, so its a bit tongue in cheek, but I cant help but feel a little unappreciated sometimes

:-)

I play a flavor build 12 sorc 5 fvs 2 rog, I don't cry.

[Cam_Neely]

Solo!

If your a TR 'chanter, there are very few quests that you cant solo (hireling can pull levers better then most pugs). People should be begging you to join, not the other way around.

PS: Most 'chanters arnt worthy of praise. They are one of the classes that I am typically underwhelmed by when they join the group, as far as preforming at their full potential (this is coming from a TRed WC)

[sirio.gala]

Do you say thanks at who gave you dps?

Never happened to me, but i always thanks who buffs.

What really bother me is when clerics or other class say out "i will not heal!" - "use gh scrolls!".
Everytime my answer is embracing the scrolls and fight with them or not fight at all.
Use a dps scroll if you need...

Don't forget we're playing a group game.
Soloers shoudl be the exceptions here.

[Vint]

Hello all,

Im not talking needing in physical items like plat or gear as Im reasonably well sorted. Im talking needy regarding recieving thanks.


On my TR Chanter I spend a lot of time and resource ensuring that the group gets buffs, songs, heals, recons, casting debuffs etc and it still bothers me that I rarely get any thanks for my efforts.

In Guild runs we all thank one another for what we recieve and the feel good factor is great

Will I ever get over this need for appreciation?

Perhaps Im just odd?

Maybe I should

a) 'shut up already, youre a buffbot so just do your job'
b) sit back with chest swelling pride knowing that the success of the quest was largely due to my efforts
c) rage quit and decide to Pike every quest from now on like a true poorly played Bard should


Ok, so its a bit tongue in cheek, but I cant help but feel a little unappreciated sometimes

:-)

Solo everything.

In a press release Turbine anounced that the most hated monster "pugger" can ruin your fun, take your xp, and destroy all of your resources. I try hard to avoid them.

[Phidius]

The "needy" feeling goes away after you play a build that a lot of people feel they "need".

All of a sudden, playing a build that can empower the entire party, yet is rarely asked to, feels less under-appreciated and more rewarding.

At least, in my experience.

[Elaril]

Will I ever get over this need for appreciation?

Perhaps Im just odd?



If you are a teenager, or in college, then I'd say that you are not odd, you are the norm. As for an ETA on when you'll get over your need for appreciation, I'd say when you get out into the real world and have to work for a living.

If you are not a teenager/college student, I apologize, but your post read like you are. ;)

[FrozenNova]

Do you thank the fighter for killing the bad guys?
The extent of my gratitude is a 'thanks all' as I drop group. It's not my place to judge the effort that went into their performance - and if they didn't personally enjoy playing, they wouldn't be here anyway.

[Ryan220]

Do I thank the melees for DPS? You got me there, I dont. But.....when Im on my Barbs I dont feel the for thanks tbh


No Im not a teenager or at college, so I guess Im just 'odd' :-)

[danotmano1998]

Nothing wrong with wanting to be appreciated.
It's when you expect it that you can be let down.

Do your thing, have fun, and accept the thanks as it comes.
It's a selfish world out there. Politeness and truly good character can be hard to come by in this digital world. Be glad when you do receive it, and just ignore it when you don't.

Thicken your skin as much as you can and try not to let the bad element ruin it for you.
I ALWAYS throw out a blanket "Thank you everyone!" when I get done with a pug.
Exceptional folks get additional thanks. :cool:

[Thrudh]

On my TR Chanter I spend a lot of time and resource ensuring that the group gets buffs, songs, heals, recons, casting debuffs etc and it still bothers me that I rarely get any thanks for my efforts.

Heh, I did a run of Prey of the Hunter last night... After we finished, one of the fighters said... "not bad! Shortmanned and without a healer"

I then pointed out the bard in our group (who had been healing us the whole time)

Bards just get no respect... :)

[FrozenNova]

If you practically soloed the entire quest, then perhaps you merit thanks.
However, there's nothing special about healing, buffing or singing that entitles you to any more gratitude than any other party member (and is arguably less impressive. A hireling can sing and buff. Main healing something significant on a bard, however, is fairly impressive). Maybe they couldn't've done it without you - but unless you could've done it just as easily without them, there's no debt here.

[learst]

It's one-sided.

"Defensive/protective" actions are usually paid less attention/appreciated to compared to "destructive actions". Melees and casters taking down mobs is normal stuff. For buffs, most folks don't really care unless it's vital for a raid e.g. and the caster is giving it specifically to that person, e.g. GH or FOM.

However, heals are different. Because they keep the other characters going. And by the countless posts on the forums, of how many folks advocate self-sufficiency/battle clerics/NoHealbotZ!!!/tossing heals only when need to; getting a heal seems like a miracle where you should get down on the knees and kiss the feet of the person who just healed you.

Unless that person happens to not be a divine but a bard. There is this tunnel vision thing going on that blocks people from assuming that bards can also heal. Or buff. Or melee. Because other classes can do those things much better. So the bard is forgotten. It's like how the general public paid attention to the top scorers, fastest racers, smartest kid, but forget the ones in the middle. :rolleyes:

[MrkGrismer]

I usually toss a 'thanks guys for the great run' at the end of any run, and that is about the extent of it unless there is a raise or timely something-or-other involved.

Bards are like SEALs, they secretly ensure the success of the operation while leaving the glory to the Marines (in ddo I guess that would be the Barbarians...)

[Phidius]

Some people might say the solution to the under-appreciated bards is to give them more power.

I say let them customize the songs they play. I want "Back in Black".

[Bracosius]

I say let them customize the songs they play. I want "Back in Black".

Most of this thread doesn't interest me, but this idea has merit!

[Zachski]

I find it amusing that people generally don't care about being thanked when it comes to melee and nuking, but when doing things directly for other players they do expect to be thanked.

Note that when I say amusing, I don't think it's a bad thing. In fact, I kinda agree.

Buffing other players generally means less time spent quote-unquote "playing the game". It means taking time out of your fighting to help other players (and yourself) fight better.

Healing is also a bit underappreciated and takes far more of a focus than buffing, hence the overenthusiastic need for validation.

Personally, I think that, maybe you don't need to thank the buffer, but acknowledge them in some ways. When players do things for other players, it doesn't feel good to be taken for granted.

That being said, I don't really particularly care if you thank me, just stay near me when I'm singing a bard song XD I tend to focus on buffing myself, and then buffing anyone who happens to be near me, so it's not something I do so much for other players as I do for myself.

Even a pre-emptive "thanks for having Haste slotted on your sorc" would be nice.

[arch0njw]

Bards are difficult. I say 'b'. I've been there. It's fun to watch the difference between with and without songs and buffs. It is obvious. People rarely remark about it. I have real-life friends I group with using my Bard, and I've heard the "HOLY CR*P!" comments for real when they see their crazy difference when buffed.

Otherwise, yeah, solo. I solo a lot. Bards aren't exactly in demand unless you find people who appreciate what they bring to the table. (i.e., you don't need raw DPS or "HEALZ PLEEZ" when you can buff them to a point of "the best defense is a good offense".)

[Cam_Neely]

Most of this thread doesn't interest me, but this idea has merit!

suggested a long time ago, but ignored
/sadface
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=273738

[Tarragon12]

Hello all,

Im not talking needing in physical items like plat or gear as Im reasonably well sorted. Im talking needy regarding recieving thanks.


On my TR Chanter I spend a lot of time and resource ensuring that the group gets buffs, songs, heals, recons, casting debuffs etc and it still bothers me that I rarely get any thanks for my efforts.

In Guild runs we all thank one another for what we recieve and the feel good factor is great

Will I ever get over this need for appreciation?

Perhaps Im just odd?

Maybe I should

a) 'shut up already, youre a buffbot so just do your job'
b) sit back with chest swelling pride knowing that the success of the quest was largely due to my efforts
c) rage quit and decide to Pike every quest from now on like a true poorly played Bard should


Ok, so its a bit tongue in cheek, but I cant help but feel a little unappreciated sometimes

:-)

Its somewhat juvenile, but perfectly harmless flaw to expect or even ask for thanks for matters if importance and group play. There is no (ethical) need to thank somebody for buffs. They don't buff you for fun or games, they buff you for common party good.

However, it's proper to thank for silly needless things like passing pots, arrows or thieve's tools. And when winning a raid gear roll in non guild environment.


That being said, tossing some "nice healing or good songs" to obviously newbie healer/bard does a world of good for them. Thanking the same way to double tr cleric/bard is imho not neccesary. It's so automatic to them, they could be watching porn and reading a movie at the same time they are healing the party. It would be akin to thanking barb for swinging his axe or admiring monk for zerging ahead and stealing 99% of killcount, like they usually do. Its what's they are supposed to do.

[Feylina]

for the same reason i don't thank the melee, arcane, divine, trapmonkey and pretty much what else makes the party. Sure if you go above and beyond your job. doing something spectacular or what shouldn't seem necessary for the quest as it stands then ya thank you. but if you're just doing your job then lets all save some breathe and thank each other when we truly deserve it.

by job i mean: doing whatever is reasonably in your power to contribute and guarantee the success of the party (don't mean job like you're a buff bot). this is not to mean chugging rescources.

I can't remember the last time i heard anyone thank the 5 or 6 melee in the raid or the tank or trapmonkey. no it usually falls to buffers and healers to recieve the kudos. seems a little rediculous to me. again i say save the thanks for when you truly deserve it, when you show outstanding skill or fortitude or heaven forbid do chug some rescources even though you shouldn't have to. standing still pressing a few buttons doesn't impress me much :P.

[Kenpai]

How many times have you seen someone take 45 points of damage and had that healed by the Cleric's aura when running to the next mob?
How many times have you seen a barbarian kill 3 enemies before they even got a chance to hit anyone?
How many times have you seen a rogue open a door or disable a trap?
How many times have you seen any of those people being thanked for what they do?

If someone requests a specific buff/song/rogue to unlock and de-trap a path/something else that the person hasn't already done, a "thank you" is common courtesy.
However if everyone started thanking everyone else for class features, quests would go somewhat like: "Thanks for the songs" "Thanks for the haste" "Thank you for killing those skeletons" "Thanks for putting your aura up to heal us without expending your SP" "Thanks for hitting the rune" "Thanks for killing those drow" "Thank you for the re-Haste" "Thank you for using the lever to open the shrines" "Thank you for accomplishing one of the quest's manditory objectives" "Thanks for the fire walls" ... you get the point. It would get old, it would get annoying, and it would be sort of pointless to thank someone for things that happen in most other quests.

[Zachski]

How many times have you seen someone take 45 points of damage and had that healed by the Cleric's aura when running to the next mob?
How many times have you seen a barbarian kill 3 enemies before they even got a chance to hit anyone?
How many times have you seen a rogue open a door or disable a trap?
How many times have you seen any of those people being thanked for what they do?

If someone requests a specific buff/song/rogue to unlock and de-trap a path/something else that the person hasn't already done, a "thank you" is common courtesy.
However if everyone started thanking everyone else for class features, quests would go somewhat like: "Thanks for the songs" "Thanks for the haste" "Thank you for killing those skeletons" "Thanks for putting your aura up to heal us without expending your SP" "Thanks for hitting the rune" "Thanks for killing those drow" "Thank you for the re-Haste" "Thank you for using the lever to open the shrines" "Thank you for accomplishing one of the quest's manditory objectives" "Thanks for the fire walls" ... you get the point. It would get old, it would get annoying, and it would be sort of pointless to thank someone for things that happen in most other quests.

I think what the OP is asking isn't a thanks for every little thing, but an actual, genuine sense of appreciation.

Because he/she's feeling taken for granted. And this isn't helping.

[Ryan220]

'Thank you' for your replies :-)


Having read through this its clear to see Im not the only one who feels this way, but there are many more that feel that I should be looking at option a)


I think that because thise is my first Bard (or read 'class that requires plat spent to operate') that I feel like I do sometimes.

Its my own fault I guess fordoing more than what is really expected on a Bard. Its just habit that I do all the buffs I can, scroll out resists and prots, wand whip everyones health between fights, pass out stone skin, Hage etc.
Noone expects me to do resists or stoneskin so I shouldnt expect thanks when I do I guess


I shall have to adopt option b) and a bit of option a)

[Callavan]

I'm playing a cleric for a static group. It's a blast. While I do get a 'thank you' every once in a while, I don't really expect it. As someone suggested earlier, it would get old really quick if someone paused to thank me every time I slapped 'em with an Aid or Divine Healing. (Yes, we're a lowbie group right now. :D) If they started doing that, I'd have to say "You're welcome. Now shut up and kill stuff."

My thanks comes from the synergy we get going when the Barbarian settles into his groove knowing I've got his red bar covered and we start steamrolling everything in our path. It comes from logging off happy, knowing the group did better as a whole than any one of us would have done soloing the same quests, and that we're having enough fun to come back and do it again next week.

[Ragnar7]

How many times have you seen someone take 45 points of damage and had that healed by the Cleric's aura when running to the next mob?
How many times have you seen a barbarian kill 3 enemies before they even got a chance to hit anyone?
How many times have you seen a rogue open a door or disable a trap?
How many times have you seen any of those people being thanked for what they do?

If someone requests a specific buff/song/rogue to unlock and de-trap a path/something else that the person hasn't already done, a "thank you" is common courtesy.
However if everyone started thanking everyone else for class features, quests would go somewhat like: "Thanks for the songs" "Thanks for the haste" "Thank you for killing those skeletons" "Thanks for putting your aura up to heal us without expending your SP" "Thanks for hitting the rune" "Thanks for killing those drow" "Thank you for the re-Haste" "Thank you for using the lever to open the shrines" "Thank you for accomplishing one of the quest's manditory objectives" "Thanks for the fire walls" ... you get the point. It would get old, it would get annoying, and it would be sort of pointless to thank someone for things that happen in most other quests.

This.
If you don't like the feeling of playing a Bard, then don't. I have a 20 bard and I don't expect to be thanked for anything. Groups don't NEED a bard to succeed.

[Galeria]

I think the real disparity is that clerics and rogues do get thanked more often.

What's funny is that the worst cleric/FvS's often get the most thank you's because the rest of the party notices how low their health is and starts to worry. Just when you think you are about to die, in comes a heal and you say, "Thank you" to encourage the healer to focus on healing more often!

More times than not, the rogue gets a "good job" when the traps are done... again because the party has probably felt the pain of running through traps where the box is blown or there was no one to disable them.

It's kind of like the closer you get to a total party wipe, the more likely people are to say "good job" when they actually complete. The reality is... you don't notice the really good jobs as much as you notice the near fatal wipes. So you tell everyone "good job" mostly because you are happy to get a completion when you almost gave up and you didn't think a party that weak could pull it off.

Bard help is subtle, often seen as slowing down the party ("How many songs do I have to stand here for?") and is rarely as dramatic as the other situations. Doing a good support role will get you noticed a lot less than doing a crappy support role but "saving" the party because your character hasn't been doing what it ought to all along.

Want more notice? Make 'em ask for it. Seriously. It's not nice and goes against the grain of most party-oriented players but if you really want to hear "thanks" and "good job" more often, wait for people to notice you aren't doing your job and ask you for a song or a buff.... they will almost always thank you when they get it. Because you've made them feel needy and grateful for a haste or a blur or a song.

I don't recommend that playstyle, but if it's important to you to have your work applauded you have to play worse, not better. Might not make many friends that way... but you'll hear what you need to hear.

[Zachski]

This.
If you don't like the feeling of playing a Bard, then don't. I have a 20 bard and I don't expect to be thanked for anything. Groups don't NEED a bard to succeed.


Like I said, I don't think what the OP is looking for is to be thanked for every little thing.

If you take someone for granted, it's an insult, quite frankly. I think that's what the OP is feeling. Like their bard is being taken for granted.

[Lutebasher]

Not really Needing too Much in a Pug.....

Perhaps Standing Still for Buffs? :D

[LupusVai]

Hello all,

Im not talking needing in physical items like plat or gear as Im reasonably well sorted. Im talking needy regarding recieving thanks.


On my TR Chanter I spend a lot of time and resource ensuring that the group gets buffs, songs, heals, recons, casting debuffs etc and it still bothers me that I rarely get any thanks for my efforts.

In Guild runs we all thank one another for what we recieve and the feel good factor is great

Will I ever get over this need for appreciation?

Perhaps Im just odd?

Maybe I should

a) 'shut up already, youre a buffbot so just do your job'
b) sit back with chest swelling pride knowing that the success of the quest was largely due to my efforts
c) rage quit and decide to Pike every quest from now on like a true poorly played Bard should


Ok, so its a bit tongue in cheek, but I cant help but feel a little unappreciated sometimes

:-)

I'm not sure why it should be any different than real life, some people are just plain rude and or self entitled.

I've quite often ran accross various casters who dont buff others at all perhaps they feel the same way as you do and so dont bother to buff anyone other than themselves anymore.

For my own part, if someone has taken the time to buff me, even if its not really needed, i always take the time to say thanks. It takes less than a second to type it or say it. I'm not really sure how anyone can object to that but then i guess we all have different up bringings and cultures.

Of point a friend who lived in spain for a few years said that in the area he was they reffered to politness as "the English disease". Apparently we have a reputation for being over polite, I'm not sure thats really the case anymore though..lol. The most consistently polite group I've met have been american servicemen (USAAF) stationed over here. I would assume thats down to military discipline.

[Soulstabber]

On my TR Chanter I spend a lot of time and resource ensuring that the group gets buffs, songs, heals, recons, casting debuffs etc and it still bothers me that I rarely get any thanks for my efforts.
...
Ok, so its a bit tongue in cheek, but I cant help but feel a little unappreciated sometimes

:-)

Having played almost every class out there, being bard one of them, i can safely tell you that you really don't get a lot of thanks ;)
If you join a pug as a healer, do you expect people to tell you thanks everytime you get a heal? or if you are a melee, do you expect people to tell you thanks everytime you hit a mob?
Why bard would be any different? it's your job to play songs, i certainly don't thank any bards for doing their basic function or anyone else.
That being said, I do thank people when they do something i requested or that is out of their 'basic function', such as getting halfling companion for instance (do i need that buff? no, do i like it? yes). But still i mostly say thanks for requested things like buffs and stuff like that.
If we were going to say thanks for every single thing the person did right, we would'nt move much inside quests =p
I gotta confess that i enjoy hearing 'good job' more than 'thanks' in this game though, and i think thats the right way to go. For instance, if you go do epic von6 and you fascinate all mobs in 1 go, fast and efficient, do you think you will receive a 'thanks' or a 'gj'? The same if you go out and solo 3rd tower, most likely no one will say 'thanks', but you will hear at least 1 'gj' for saving the team sp and speeding things up.
So IMO, maybe you are just aiming for the wrong thing, try to do beyond your class basic function and do something more and deserve a good job instead of thanks? ^_^
Also, thats just my 2cents and how I look at the game, probaly worthless to everyone else =P

[Veriden]

Hello all,

Im not talking needing in physical items like plat or gear as Im reasonably well sorted. Im talking needy regarding recieving thanks.


On my TR Chanter I spend a lot of time and resource ensuring that the group gets buffs, songs, heals, recons, casting debuffs etc and it still bothers me that I rarely get any thanks for my efforts.

In Guild runs we all thank one another for what we recieve and the feel good factor is great

Will I ever get over this need for appreciation?

Perhaps Im just odd?

Maybe I should

a) 'shut up already, youre a buffbot so just do your job'
b) sit back with chest swelling pride knowing that the success of the quest was largely due to my efforts
c) rage quit and decide to Pike every quest from now on like a true poorly played Bard should


Ok, so its a bit tongue in cheek, but I cant help but feel a little unappreciated sometimes

:-)

B, for the sheer fact that their survival is thanks enough, the success of the mission that wouldn't have happened (or easily happened) with out that little umph is proof enough of a large enough 'thank you'.

Simply put, I heard a saying a long time ago "They'll remember you for your deeds when you return." While not every one says 'thanks' the persistance in heals/buffs/etc while offering other support as well people pay more attention than a most realize. Its the ones who die a lot and have a negative attitude that people will remember the most, remember them to not let them in a future party. So I'd say breathe deep,and look ahead.

[Nysrock]

I hear where you are coming from. I have a Bard and a FVS and enjoy playing them both. And while I don't expect people to thank me for every little thing I do put some resources in the form of wands and scrolls to keep the party going. Yet no one seems to think that that is pp coming out of my casters pocket to keep them going.

Sure I could just stand in the back and cast nothing but buffs and heals but that is not how I play. I have to be in the middle of the fighting and proactively attacking the mobs.

I guess the OP could do what I am thinking of doing, use no scrolls, wands or anything else on the party, just SP. And when those are gone "Sorry guys, looks like you have to use your own pots for healing.":)

[Ryan220]

Im not after thanks for every litle thing I do nor am I saying that everyone should say thanks for every mob killed, held, stunned, every heal cure buff etc, etc. That would of course be silly. Just a thankyou when you go above and beyond. (TY Zachski for pointing this out)


90% of the time I dont feel the need to be thanked (I did sate this post was a bit tongue in cheek which seems to have been forgotten) but I think this post of mine was triggered by a recent Vale quest which we were running on hard. The healer DC'd and the leader inferred that we were stuffed.

I volunteered to have a go at healing so we could complete and off we went. The group stayed reasonably tight and with the use of mass cures, heal and recon scrolls and wands I kept the group alive until completion - along the way I ran out of SP so I switched to scrolls - our main hitter (a WF Fighter) needed many many Recon scrolls to keep him up (double figures worth) (at least 5 to get him acroos the pillars as he couldnt jump and kept falling into the trap.

Did anyone say thanks? Not one person.



That is just ill manners imo.

[Nysrock]

Im not after thanks for every litle thing I do nor am I saying that everyone should say thanks for every mob killed, held, stunned, every heal cure buff etc, etc. That would of course be silly. Just a thankyou when you go above and beyond. (TY Zachski for pointing this out)


90% of the time I dont feel the need to be thanked (I did sate this post was a bit tongue in cheek which seems to have been forgotten) but I think this post of mine was triggered by a recent Vale quest which we were running on hard. The healer DC'd and the leader inferred that we were stuffed.

I volunteered to have a go at healing so we could complete and off we went. The group stayed reasonably tight and with the use of mass cures, heal and recon scrolls and wands I kept the group alive until completion - along the way I ran out of SP so I switched to scrolls - our main hitter (a WF Fighter) needed many many Recon scrolls to keep him up (double figures worth) (at least 5 to get him acroos the pillars as he couldnt jump and kept falling into the trap.

Did anyone say thanks? Not one person.



That is just ill manners imo.

Aye. Totally agree.

Maybe you should start charging them per scroll, like base price + 10% for each one you use. I bet they'd get a clue about what all you use to keep them going then.;)

And as for thanking the Barbarian for killing things, I play melee types too and it doesn't cost anything to stand there and swing a weapon while letting someone else keep you up. Course I always have UMD with scrolls and wands even on my melees. :cool:

[justhavinfun]

Best thanks I ever got on a bard was not verbal. It was while running an elite Chrono. I would stand at the entrance to the boss fights and watch the group gather without me asking. This included the high level characters in the group. I would sing my songs and toss out GH, then they would yell ready and charge in and kill the boss. This happened while my bard was level 9. The high levels included 3 level 20's who I am sure didn't really need the meager benifits I offered, but waited for them anyways.

[alexp80]

It's a nonsense.

If you rolled a bard, after all, it's suppose you like playing him, and this involves playing songs, buffs, etc...

I see no thanks for melee when they beat up guys, I see no reason to thank a bard for singing.

I say thanks (to anyone) when he do something special (for me or for the group), like playing an outstanding performance (such as our guild bard solo healing and cc in eDA) or cover me if I make a mistake (such as an unespected harm from a cleric when in undead form that save my life).

[Satinavian]

Im not after thanks for every litle thing I do nor am I saying that everyone should say thanks for every mob killed, held, stunned, every heal cure buff etc, etc. That would of course be silly. Just a thankyou when you go above and beyond. (TY Zachski for pointing this out)

Exactly. No one thanks for the common tasks a class does, if the performance was not extraordinary. And that is good so.

bards common tasks are party songs, either CC or mellee, basic buffs (GH,fom,haste,blur,rage), secondary healing. If a bard does all that, he is not a good bard, but only an average bard. If he does not perform this tasks, he is a bad bard.

Things beyond those tasks include scrolling important nonbard spells, tanking, being main-healer. Also single-target-songs, even if nothing extraordinary may give a ty in return as the bard gives up a CC song to help a single player with competence or spellsong vigor.

Now for scrolling heal or resists ? How often does the target notice from whom it came ? If health is low, they have better things to do than looking what the bard has in his hands and which animation he performs. Also inoming resists are usually assumed to have been cast by the arcanes, divines, rangers or pallies in the group as everyone knows that the bard does not have the spell. And as it is a normal, not extraordinary effort by those classes, a ty is not needed.


Another thing is being TR. I hate the wings on my TR. Everyone essumes, you are uber, have like half a dozen greensteel items and twink gear in every other slot and millions worth of consumables ready everytime. A performence that would be really impressive by any other toon is just taken for granted and if you happen to play not much better than a good firstlife, you are considered gimp and a bad player. In exchange everyone fears you wrath if they happen to die because they think, they know you "need" the 10%.

Has nothing to do with bards. I really really want an option to hide the wings and have a little more fun in pugs like in the time i first levelled.



Did anyone say thanks? Not one person.Yes, they should have thanked you in that situation.

But overall i got more ty on my bard as on every other toon so far, even more than on my cleric (really close). And i always apprecciate a bard in a group. The only times, i felt disrespected were, when people didn't wait for songs or other buffs.

[testing1234]

ever since they made so you could move and sing at the same time ive never been frustrated by playing a bard, its easy to give out buffs on the run.
suppose its a matter of perspective when you needed to ask team to stand still for songs and they often didnt do it then removed that and ur left feeling like a weight has been removed.

oddly enough currently do thank arcanes for giving me elemental reses when on my bard (do rather think they should do this and the right kind without me asking i mean its the only buff bards need)

[Lyzernn]

Ok, let's separate some stuff here.

As a Bard, if you want to fully support your party, you'll use more resources than any other class.

1) You have low SP so you may need to use SP pots to replenish it to keep the health of everyone alive. This becomes a lesser problem as a 12+ Spellsinger, but not every Bard goes that way.

2) You have innate UMD, which means it's almost your obligation to max it and UMD Heal, Reconstruct and wands at low levels. Not forgetting the raise dead scrolls and just about any other (EXPENSIVE) goodie to help the party as much as you can. Rogues come across this problem as well.

3) You sacrifice a lot of stuff to be a good party supporter: You don't have very good DPS, barely any damaging spells, your heals are sufficient but missing some high-end spells and your CC won't be as good as a Wizard's. On the other hand, you have the best buffs and can make a party shine with them.

4) You're one of the most underappreciated classes because no one knows very well what Bards do. Ignorance is bliss... Maybe for them, not for us.

Now:
Would I like to be thanked for spending hundreds of plat on healing and utility spells? Sure, that'd be nice, at the end of the quest is always nice to hear: "Thanks for the heals, Bard". But no, it's "Thanks for the heals, Cleric". Even if the Cleric is a "Battle Cleric" - The kind that doesn't heal, not the melee ones who also heal.

Would I like to be thanked for my songs? Not really, that's what I'm there for, they will be good with no effort whatsoever. But what really ticks me is when people run away from my songs. That's a huge disrespect right there. I always get a thanks from my Spellsong Vigor though.

Would I thank a DDer for doing their job? No, it's the same as my songs, they don't need any effort put it in, so why should I thank them? Specially when they run away from my songs saying "I only need rage and haste derrpppp", break my Fascinate and Hypnotize with their mindless smashing, and rush in thinking they can handle 30 mobs on them without constant healing. Now if the quest goes quicker than normal, I say: "Nice DPS." This is applied to any class that does their job right. If they do something extraordinary or expensive, then they deserve a thanks.

[Thrudh]

I say let them customize the songs they play. I want "Back in Black".

"Welcome to the Jungle" would completely rock as we stepped into Amrath.

[MrkGrismer]

Some people might say the solution to the under-appreciated bards is to give them more power.

I say let them customize the songs they play. I want "Back in Black".

Such would be lovely (I like the LOTRO sytem for instance), and while I would love to be able to just use MP3s that would obviously be open for abuse (a certain Ce Lo Green song comes to mind).

But the LOTRO system side-steps that.

[MrkGrismer]

Noone expects me to do resists or stoneskin so I shouldnt expect thanks when I do I guess

The thought of doing such has never crossed my Bard's mind. It would seem roughly akin to handing out plat. I would expected to be pointed to the sane asylum.

[Cam_Neely]

Ok, let's separate some stuff here.

As a Bard, if you want to fully support your party, you'll use more resources than any other class.

1) You have low SP so you may need to use SP pots to replenish it to keep the health of everyone alive. This becomes a lesser problem as a 12+ Spellsinger, but not every Bard goes that way.

3) You sacrifice a lot of stuff to be a good party supporter: You don't have very good DPS,


Your post is full of misinformation that puts bards in a nitch, which is not where they belong.

I play a compete TR WC Bard. He is cheaper then my barb, and much cheaper then may well played casters and healers. Bards are not overly gear dependent, making it cheap. Scrolls are dirt cheap, dont give me that a few heal, fire shield and stone skin scrolls are going to break the bank. Pots are never required, or even really expected.

I dont (and I hope no clerics or FvS) feel the need to keep everyone alive. Dont enable those that are not prepared, by keeping them alive. I am happy to keep those alive that want, and try to, stay alive.

I have fantastic DPS. You might not, but thats not a bard class enhancement. :/

I almost never hear 'thanks for the heals, cleric', maybe you are running with the wrong people. But I typically hear 'thanks for the heals' which included my mass healing heal scrollin bada$$ bard.

[Superbanki]

I tried playing a female elven cleric.
I made up a clearly dominant persona for her.
Gave her dark spiky armour and a truly cruel streak.

She'd charge first, boss people around, and tell them to behave, or she'd stop healing and let their stones to rot in sewer water.
She was a blast to play and people would say "yes, mistress".

...

I think that was the only time I actually had fun playing a cleric.

:)

Just had to say...+1 Rep. That was awesome to imagine.

[Lyzernn]

Your post is full of misinformation that puts bards in a nitch, which is not where they belong.

It may have some misinformation to the point of comparison to other classes, but you can't argue that at least at low-mid levels, if you wanna be a good supporter you need to spend way more money than a Barb needs to spend on gear.


I have fantastic DPS. You might not, but thats not a bard class enhancement. :/

If you have "fantastic" DPS, what does a Barb have? Or a Fighter? Or a Ranger? A Rogue? LolArcanes? I think that was a bit exaggerated on your behalf, but even if you do have "fantastic" DPS, you're likely to be a 16/2/2 or a 18/2 Warchanter and that sacrifices your Songs and Spells, even if for just a lil' bit.

[Cam_Neely]

It may have some misinformation to the point of comparison to other classes, but you can't argue that at least at low-mid levels, if you wanna be a good supporter you need to spend way more money than a Barb needs to spend on gear. Way more, is not even close to correct. I even think more is incorrect. I drank so many rage and haste posts on my barb its not even funny.

If you have "fantastic" DPS, what does a Barb have? Or a Fighter? Or a Ranger? A Rogue? LolArcanes? I think that was a bit exaggerated on your behalf, but even if you do have "fantastic" DPS, you're likely to be a 16/2/2 or a 18/2 Warchanter and that sacrifices your Songs and Spells, even if for just a lil' bit.My bard brings more DPS to a Raid then my TRed Barb. I consider that pretty fantastic.

[Indoran]

You're playing a Bard. Get used to being underappreciated.

This could be a factor...

Ppl are all praises over healing (which is mind boggling, specially in the cases of bad sp management) but only if it comes from a cleric or maybe from a FvS... You have to understand there is ppl in this game that have no understanding at all of the game.

To really appreciate a good player you need another good player...

So take it easy and pat yourself in the back as I do when running with noobs or ppl with esclerotic expectations (and they sometimes comment in the forum too)...

[Paleus]

Heh, I did a run of Prey of the Hunter last night... After we finished, one of the fighters said... "not bad! Shortmanned and without a healer"

I then pointed out the bard in our group (who had been healing us the whole time)

Bards just get no respect... :)

Got a similar one from a cleric perspective. I know you all know about divine vitality and health so you'd never say something like this. But when I ran a cleric I sometimes heard pugs say, "wow, this dungeon is regenning my mana, its going to be easy!". So thats right, any "support" or "healer" class is more often than not seen as an invisible dungeon feature rather than contributing party member.

[Seikojin]

Generally if someone says gj in chat, I take it as a thanks for my efforts. Buffer, healer, or dpser.

If I see someone going above and beyond their call of duty, I thank them specifically.

But that is as a thanker, not the thankee.

[cdemeritt]

I'm sure most comments have been made, so I'll just leave you with this one....

If you think it is bad now, wait until some pug raid where the worthless pug clerics blow their mana buffing and in the first 30 sec or so of the raid, forcing you to drop back and heal the raid, saving their bacon..... and then hearing after the raid is over "What great Clerics (Insert names here).... good job healing...." an no mention to you...


A bard is very much a thankless job...

[Ryan220]

Im the OP

Lots of posts, lots of points of views - good stuff.


So, what can I learn from this?

1) I need to get a thicker skin - thank yous arent always forthcoming even when warranted
2) Im doing too much buffing - I dont have to stoneskin/ resist etc the entire party.
3) Bards can be unappreciated sometimes
4) Perhaps I should view the lack of comments at the end of a quest as a good thing - I would be quickly informed if I was doing it wrong


Sound about right?

[aberent]

Don't give up, I play as a fighter so I apreciate all of the buffs that are cast on me, I am a buff adict, I need buffs and will double my kills and help the party thanks to you.

[jandhaer]

People will know my appreciation when I run with them more then once. And I will know when they do the same. When people repeatedly hit your LFM's, whenever you post one, thats the biggest compliment I feel that can be given ingame, lets me know Im representing for the "Tribe"

[krackythehoodedone]

Its Obviously all Hordo's fault. After all he has given Barddom the innescapable title of

Greatest piking class of all time. And he should know he is the master.

Didnt someone once try to ''charge for services'' ? I seem to remember that wasnt a great success.

I would seek sollace from the number of LFM's u see wanting Bard only. You are still sought after

[Alabore]

That was awesome to imagine.

That was just what I did.
And this is what I cobbled together.

http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg607/scaled.php?server=607&filename=pixelfcleric01.jpg&res=medium

-> http://img607.imageshack.us/img607/8251/pixelfcleric01.jpg

Caption would be: "Die, maggots, for my fleeting tactical advantage"
Reply balloon would read: "Yes, mistress..."

[Agones]

While I agree that in most situations bard's contributions feel invisible to party partners, I have received more praise on my bard than any of my other characters.

I have joined a few PuGs and being welcome with a "Oh! A bard! I love bards!". Rarely any other class gets welcome with a "Oh! A <class>! I love <class>!". At most you get an "At last! A healer!"

After solo healing (wand + scroll) a few quests -mostly epics- I have also got a lot of praise from most groups. Resurrecting the divine (or divines) uses to grant you an automatic "thanks"... Saving the day by Kiting/Fascinating a group of monsters while you help resurrecting and healing the *real* melees uses to get a lot of nice to hear comments too.

Having my whole SP pool devoted to buffs uses to be noticed and thanked, casting inspire competence on the mechanic rogue, topping someone's HP inbetween fights.. they all use to get a *thank you* here and there.

It is not easy to get that kind of praise in any other class. And almost impossible to get it at higher levels in any other class than bard. In a divine caster you might get a "good heals", but they rarely sound as much as a sincere compliment as the ones you get in a bard, as you are expected to heal ;).

People who knows what a bard can add to a party can welcome you with an appreciation comment, those who do not, use to praise you the most when your versatility is needed.

Of course all of this is limited to my own experiences. It is possible there is a lot of nice people PuGging in Thelanis -For sure there are!- and I have just found most of them.

Greetings