Question about Bard Songs

[Istaria1]

Hi all,

Just been playing about with some builds in my spare time, and I'm becoming very interested in the Bard class. Could anyone confirm whether or not the song "Inspire Courage" affects the bard singing it, or just others in the group?

Thanks :)

Ist.

[Dilbon]

Inspire Courage and Inspire Greatness both affect the bard. Also you can target yourself with Inspire Heroism, but you can sing Inspire Competence only on others.

[Istaria1]

Ah great, just the answer I wanted to hear :)

In that case, a bard seems to me to be a HUGE complement to any class?

I am considering Rogue 2/Bard x/Ranger (Tempest) x (*have not worked it out enough to give correct figures yet).

The char would be a dual wielding (possibly Khopesh but more likely shortsword or rapier), self-buffing, self-healing (via wands and other UMD items) with good trap/search/lock skills. I'm also aiming for high saves and a better than average AC.

Any opinions on the concept?

Thanks,

Ist.

[Lyzernn]

Well, Inspire Courage is only as good as it's enhancements and later on having +2 Attack and +2 Damage from the song wouldn't compensate the loss of 2 levels of your main class

[katz]

most bards don't recommend going less than 16 levels of bard. you lose a lot (too much, most say) from your songs splashing so deeply. if you know what you are losing, and are prepared and willing, go for it, but expect questions on occasion.

common combat-driven bard builds that want trapping/evasion usually involve 16 bard 2 rogue 2 fighter, altho i am building a 16 bard 2 rogue 2 barb right now and enjoying the heck out of it. be sure you look up the info on Warchanter and plan that in. it rocks for a combat bard!

[Istaria1]

Good advice - thanks alot!

I'll do a bit of reading on the forums, and I'll play with the character planner. I confess I am currently struggling with how deep character creation in DDO is - enjoying it alot tho :)

Ist.

[learst]

The power of Inspire Courage becomes apparent at higher levels:

At lvl 1, it is only +1 to attack and damage.

At lvl 8, it adds another +1 so total +2

At lvl 14, it adds another +1 so total +3

At lvl 20, it adds another +1 so total +4.

Furthermore, there are enhancements line, adding another +3.

So total a pure lvl 20 bard will have +7. Bear this is mind if you choose to multiclass. :)

[karl_k0ch]

Popular Bard breakpoints and why, at least from the point of view of a melee bard:
8 Bard: +2 damage/hit from levels, +2 each from enhancements, possibly +2/+1 from warchanter I. Limited spell casting, but at least access to Haste.
12 Bard: Another damge +1 via enhancements. Level 4 spells. Access to Tier 2 Prestiges.
14 Bard: Additional +1 to-hit and damage via levels. Another +1 to hit via enhancements. Level 5 Spells (i.e. GH).
15 Bard: AC song
16 Bard: Level 6 Spells (i.e. Otto's Irresistable Dance.)
20 Bard: Final +1 to-hit and damage via levels. Capstone.


The problem with the combination of ranger and bard PrEs is that both are quite feat-intensive. Tempest requires 3 feats (Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack), Warchanter requires 2 feats (Power Attack, Weapon Focus), which leaves barely enough room for staples as Toughness and Improved Critical. Using an Exotic Weapon or taking Extend requires going human. I think that going Kensei instead of Tempest, or alternatively taking the ranger levels, but not taking the Tempest PrE would make a viable melee TWF Bard. I'm thinking of 11 Ranger/8 Bard/1 Rogue, which is the bare minimum for a build to be considered to be a melee bard. No tempest, but Warchanter.

Another viable option a TWF Bard is a Warchanter, splashed with Rogue and Fighter. 16/2/2, 15/3rog/2fgt, 14/4fgt/2rog, 14/4rog/2fgt as well as 12/6fgt/2rog and 12/7rog/1fgt come to my mind; depending how much you value Bard versatility over unsituational dps/situational dps.

If you want some additional info, or a sample build, just let us know. :)

[FrozenNova]

The traditional melee bard is 16/2 fighter/2 rogue, 16/2 fighter/2 barbarian, or 16/4 fighter.
This gives you all the bard abilities a group could ever ask for, and enough feats to play as a competant melee and healer if spellsinger.