12ftr/6pal/2 rog vs 12ftr/6barb/2rog. TWF

[Mikjagger]

Are there any major difference between the two?

if so... which is better in your opinion?

please give me some constructive feedback :) ty

[landofshishio]

It all depends on wat your tring to do !
But i would bet 12 ftr 6 barb 2 rogue.
IMO you Should go 12 ranger/6barb/2 fighter
You seems to want a class that dish 2wpn fighting, got evasion and rly good hp.

12ftr/6bar/2 rogue let u get kensai2, berserk 1 + some feats but you will have to spent 3 feat on TWF
If you go Ranger You can do tempest 2 frenzy 1, but you wont have to spend 3 feats on TWF since its free on Ranger + you can get spell like bark maxed at +5.
12 ftr give you d10 hp ranger is d8, ftr give you 12 feat so (9 since 3 feat for TWF) , ranger give u 5 feat +3 favored enemy. Ftr will give u for save 7/3/3 for 12 lvl and ranger 8/3/3.

Its now up to u!
Hope i gave u so hint.

[Battlehawke]

6 Levels of Pally is probably the most powerful 6 levels in the game.

You get:
Charisma Bonus to Saves
Pally Immunities (Fear and Disease)
1000 HP Cure All (Sov Host)
Smite Evils
Lay on Hands (about 88 points at level 6 or so dependent on Charisma)
Divine Might (+2 Damage Boost)
Divine Sacrifice (5d6 light damage on every other hit or so)
Divine Righteousness (+100% Threat)
Automatic Ghost Touch on ALL weapons (with Hunter of Undead PRE)

There is no contest here.....

[Mikjagger]

@ shishio. u hit my build needs head on :) i will be TR'ing my past life ranger soon. but is the tempest that good(compared to kensai)?... because the feats wouldnt be that much of an issue with 12 ftr(keep that in mind) and i didnt really like to use bows that much so the ranged combat part isnt a big deal to me.


@ Battlehawk. thank you for breaking down what the 6 lvl's of pally will give me :) i was wondering what it would do. but what does it combine well with?

[whomhead]

@ Battlehawk. thank you for breaking down what the 6 lvl's of pally will give me :) i was wondering what it would do. but what does it combine well with?

It combines most excellently with holding a khopesh in each hand while using them to slice things up!

[Mikjagger]

well yes :) but does it go better with one class split more than another?

right now i have these in mind-(all human Khopesh)

12ftr/6pal/2rogue
12ftr/6rgr/2rogue
12ftr/6bar/2rogue
12rgr/6pal/2rogue


any other good splits to consider?(dps focused with high saves/hp and evasion)

[ThePrincipal]

if you want to use UMD and add a bit of sneak damage, go Rogue

if you have tanking aspirations, go Monk for 2 bonus feats and Wis bonus to AC

[Indoran]

12 ranger may save you 3 feats but for tempest it consumes 3 feats ... that along the lower hit die and losing the kensai power surge... I am heavily inclined for the blitz (12 ftr, 6 barb, 2 rogue) I have one and its simply amazing...

Pally split will require you to put points in charisma to get bonus to saves worth something... and that may hurt more than help. also it requires an alignment that makes mobs hit you harder sometimes.

That 1000 heal can be used only once every 10 min (I have capped 1 pally and I am in progress of capping a legend one)

Pally splash can be good... but barb one is also

[Mikjagger]

Ya i was considering the barb vs pally. but most of the time barbs saves kinda bite and they end up being mana sponges. also i would like to have a lil amount of soloability if i can, which pally seems to offer me.

and does the barb add that much more damage?

[Arraetrikos]

with the 6 barb lvls u do get more dps, as u gain frenzy, and u also get other barb perks - high base hp, dr that can be improved with ap, class con enhancements. However they do kind of lose some solo ability over pallys, who get all of the stuff battlehawke posted.

Basically, if u will have a group e.g guild or plan to pug a lot, the 6 barb is more dps and u should have a healer to keep u up. If u solo then pally is best for you.


All of the above is IMHO.

[Battlehawke]

You will gain more out of ftr than ranger for TWF for 12 levels of either. For 12 Ftr you get 6 free feats which more than makeup for the bonus Rgr (3) TWF feats & you can get Kensai 2 for the +8 to Str as we'll as the Weapon Specialization bonuses to hit and to damage. Make sure you go Rogue at first and focus on Maxing Umd and Balance. I would take the other Rogue around 12+.

[landofshishio]

@ shishio. u hit my build needs head on :) i will be TR'ing my past life ranger soon. but is the tempest that good(compared to kensai)?... because the feats wouldnt be that much of an issue with 12 ftr(keep that in mind) and i didnt really like to use bows that much so the ranged combat part isnt a big deal to me.


@ Battlehawk. thank you for breaking down what the 6 lvl's of pally will give me :) i was wondering what it would do. but what does it combine well with?

My guy isnt fighting with bow hes dual dwarven axe since hes a dwarf. But for bow im as strong as a lvl 20 ranger not AA :P With 12 lvl of ranger u also have the multishot This is a versatile guys not the best in bow but cna do the job if needed. Kensai use signature weapon so when you choose ur favored weapon and will give you + to hit and + dmg. Kensai 2 will give you power surge that grants you a +6 psionic str for 1 min. That power surge you can get your pair of titan grips and it will do the same except only 3 clicky of 1 min. Beside most str clicky are use for boss fight so in a certain way the build i said is a burst rage build for a ranger. I hit for around 60 base dmg per hand + sides line of dmg,
What would be best for you is to use a character generator and play with it a bit to see what it would give you. But for epic you need at least +60 to hit to actually hit. Keep that in mind.

My buidl let me hate tank all raid no problem, i can be self sufficient healing spell (ranger)/ heal scroll (umd), i cna get my ac if wanted to 60 not that it matters that much. I can range like a lvl 20 ranger/ usefull for Epic Queen and many place where u need a little returning dagger.

The only down, on gallanda it seems ppl perceives ranger as not dps and at 1st had some trouble getting in groups. I dont have those prob anymore thouhg alot of ppl knows me now lol.
Anyway with this build that has around 40/38/30 for saves. and evasion, you will be one of the few last man standing when thing turn out sour.

[kingarthas87]

If you go Ranger You can do tempest 2 frenzy 1, but you wont have to spend 3 feats on TWF since its free on Ranger + you can get spell like bark maxed at +5.
12 ftr give you d10 hp ranger is d8, ftr give you 12 feat so (9 since 3 feat for TWF) , ranger give u 5 feat +3 favored enemy. Ftr will give u for save 7/3/3 for 12 lvl and ranger 8/3/3.


Technically you dont get the twf for free since you have to spend 3 feat on useless feats for the terrible ranger pre. 12 fighter is greater then 12 ranger in every way except range combat because of max haste boost and powersurge, the dmg you gain against every enemy is better then good dmg against 3 type of enemy. With how turbine butcher the tempest ranger pre. its really not worth it getting the pre unless you go for tempest 3.

[unbongwah]

Divine Sacrifice (5d6 light damage on every other hit or so)
You forgot to mention it also increases your crit multiplier by 1 vs evil enemies; but it also costs HPs to use, so it's kinda like Vicious for pallies.

You can also get Exalted Smite I, which adds +1 to crit multiplier on Smites; you'll have 4 of them w/pally 6 & Extra Smite II (which is an Exalted pre-req) which regen 1 every 90 secs.

12ftr/6pal/2rogue
12ftr/6rgr/2rogue
12ftr/6bar/2rogue
My two cents: I think barb 6 would add the most DPS (not sure, tho, bit hard to compare Rage + Frenzy + PA enhs w/Smites + Sacrifice + Divine Might), as well as extra HPs & +10% base run speed; pally 6 adds more survivability (higher saves, fear & disease immunity, pally wands, Divine Favor) and some hate-tanking bonuses if you want (Divine Righteousness, DoS I stance if you take), plus no feat pre-reqs for its PrEs (tower shield prof. from ftr meets DoS I pre-req), but also makes your build more MAD (can't just dump-stat CHA anymore); Tempest I adds some DPS but not as much as it used to & it's pretty expensive feat-wise, but you do get rgr wands, Ram's Might, two FEs, and a bunch of free feats (inc. bow feats so you can pew-pew-pew from time to time even if you're not an AA).

Overall I'd say pally 6 adds the most, but only if you have enough build pts to spare to start base CHA 12-14, IMHO.

[Alex301]

Don't overlook ranger too quickly. Definitely go 12 fighter over 12 ranger but 6 ranger levels still offers ram's might, tempest I and +6 damage to two favoured enemies. Yes 10% more off hand proc's isn't as good as 10% faster attack speed but it is still a significant boost. 6 ranger will be behind 6 barbarian if you're not fighting your favoured enemy but not by much. If you are fighting your favoured enemy then it does have a significant lead, especially with the nerf to the barbarian last life feat.

Paladin is never the way to go for DPS but it does offer many other attributes that make the build very survivable.

[loki_3369]

Kensai 2 will give you power surge that grants you a +6 psionic str for 1 min. That power surge you can get your pair of titan grips and it will do the same except only 3 clicky of 1 min. Beside most str clicky are use for boss fight so in a certain way the build i said is a burst rage build for a ranger. I hit for around 60 base dmg per hand + sides line of dmg

Power Surge gives a +8 insight bonus to strength (with 9+ clickies depending on race/gear). Not psionic. It also stacks with titans grip :D.

And @Unbong: The extra crit multiplier from divine sacrifice isn't only applied to evil outsiders, it is applied to everything you can crit. And also the hp deducted really isn't an issue. It's hardly noticeable imo.

And @Alex: Lol, "paladin is never the way to go for dps". My horc fighter/pally/rogue disagrees ;). Unless he's interested in ranged combat (free manyshot) I'd honestly stay away go ranger.



Barb would probably be best if he is going for pure dps. +6 strength from rage (after barb past life fix), +2 strength from frenzy, and 2d6 vicious damage every swing (1d3 to self).

Paladin would give him 5d6 light damage every other swing, 4 exalted smites, great tanking abilities (with the change to Defender of Siberys it will be quite tasty), and slightly more survivability via lay on hands in emergencies.

Ranger would give +10% offhand procs, +6 damage towards your two favored enemies, +4 strength from ram's might, and manyshot 20 seconds out of every 2 minutes.

[Alex301]

Don't get me wrong, paladin can still offer competitive dps but i can't think of build where it would be the optimal choice for dps.

Ram's might will also add +3 damage for twf (+2 str and +2 damage) 10% more off hand procs is still somewhere between 5-10% increase in dps.

EDIT: You also forgot the PA enhancements given by the barbarian levels.