No Artificer int damage to xbows?

[Riggs]

One of the infusions is to add Int to attack rolls, but that implies to hit only I believe.

Being able to use rune arms might be nice, but the base attack isnt great, and xbows of any kind are low damage. Taking 6 Rogue levels is also a waste of a casting class that is supposed to get more powerful at 20.

Having all these class feats for xbows seems nice - but a low damage weapon is a low damage weapon - when wands will be level 20 +int - and get a hold of an epic wand with maximize....what will be the point of putting anything into xbows or repeaters?

At the very least it should be a feat you can take to add Int to hit and damage, maybe Artificer only, maybe any class.

[Seikojin]

Finesse doesn't use dex to dmg... Bows don't get dex to damage... Just saiyajin.

[prettychaos]

the int to damage infusion is there as a level 3 infusion if i'm not mistaken

[Riggs]

the int to damage infusion is there as a level 3 infusion if i'm not mistaken

The only spell/infusion I found was Insightful Strikes(L2) - and says attack rolls. Usually attack rolls means to hit only.

[Riggs]

Finesse doesn't use dex to dmg... Bows don't get dex to damage... Just saiyajin.

Finesse is for melee weapons only, and it gives you a bonus if your dex is higher then your str. What is the point bringing it up talking about ranged weapons?

If you look at the game rules, you may find out bows can get str damage - as a ranger or with the feat: Bow Strength.

I find it helps to understand the game if you want to comment about it.

[oberon131313]

The only spell/infusion I found was Insightful Strikes(L2) - and says attack rolls. Usually attack rolls means to hit only.

you are both right. There's a level 2 infusion for int to attack, and a level 3 infusion (insightful damage) for int to damage. Note that you can't have both running at once.

[Cyr]

you are both right. There's a level 2 infusion for int to attack, and a level 3 infusion (insightful damage) for int to damage. Note that you can't have both running at once.

Is that confirmed in the current lama build? Only asking because it was missing from the release notes.

[oberon131313]

Is that confirmed in the current lama build? Only asking because it was missing from the release notes.

yes. I have it on my 8 arti

[Cyr]

yes. I have it on my 8 arti

Nice and thank you much for the confirm.

[Diyon]

you are both right. There's a level 2 infusion for int to attack, and a level 3 infusion (insightful damage) for int to damage. Note that you can't have both running at once.

Could you also confirm that the insightful damage actually gives damage to crossbows? It seems to imply that it replaces the damage mod stat with int instead, but they have no damage mod stat to replace.

[Failedlegend]

Could you also confirm that the insightful damage actually gives damage to crossbows? It seems to imply that it replaces the damage mod stat with int instead, but they have no damage mod stat to replace.

Eladrin say yes...it even stacks with mech1 int bonus to damage



There are some differences between the two. Artificers can replace the to-hit or damage stat on a weapon. Mechanics get to add their Intelligence to damage with crossbows. These are different enough that they stack.

[stille_nacht]

does crossbow actually out DPS say, greataxe? im not seeing many increases to damage in artificer on the wiki, even though clearly repeaters are supposed to be a focus.

[Riggs]

does crossbow actually out DPS say, greataxe? im not seeing many increases to damage in artificer on the wiki, even though clearly repeaters are supposed to be a focus.

There is no possible way for a greataxe user with anything from a 40-80+ str is going to be outclassed by a repeater - even if you got Int damage bonus all the time without the spell.

50% extra str bonus, glancing blows, faster attacking.

Artificers will already have to put points into Int and Con by default - having to also pump Dex just to use their main weapon - and then only ever have the same damage infusion on their weapon seems like a big drag. Or else they can have a bonus to hit - and do half damage, or do good damage but miss a lot.

Seems like the feat should be a logical choice.

Rangers get the bow damage for free - or anyone can take it with feats.

Rogue mechanics get xbow damage - there should be a feat or class ability for Artificers too.

[Shade]

Artificers will already have to put points into Int and Con by default - having to also pump Dex just to use their main weapon - and then only ever have the same damage infusion on their weapon seems like a big drag. Or else they can have a bonus to hit - and do half damage, or do good damage but miss a lot.


Yea --have-- to?
Say who?

Also who said crossbow are their "main weapon". The official description tells us that they can "attack their enemies in many ways". They are more of an all-around caster hybrid then a pure dps ranged class.

It's illogical to think that Artificer should be 110% effective at everything they do, and very contrary to the nature of the game.

The current setup just makes perfect sense as it allows multiple paths:
-You can spec fully for spellcasting (Seems like what they shoudl be best at imo) .. Go high int, high con, take spellcaster feats. Youll stil have basic crossbow dmg far superior to any other caster thx to insightful strikes and free feats.
-You can spec for crossbows while retaining some caster ability - go high dex, high int +lvl up points and take most crossbow feats, and a couple caster feats. Might have to sacrifice some con.
-You can HEAVILY spec for crossbows - go high dex (just enough for IPS), MAX int, take 6 rog levels or mechanic, take crossbow feats.. Sacrifice caster feats entirely (and spell slots, sp ,etc)

The "i want it all at the same time!" attitude isn't a compelling arguement in a game that rewards specialization and encourages build variety.

Giving them easy access to Int for everything reduces variety and customization.

[Failedlegend]

The current setup just makes perfect sense as it allows multiple paths:
-You can spec fully for spellcasting (Seems like what they shoudl be best at imo) .. Go high int, high con, take spellcaster feats. Youll stil have basic crossbow dmg far superior to any other caster thx to insightful strikes and free feats.
-You can spec for crossbows while retaining some caster ability - go high dex, high int +lvl up points and take most crossbow feats, and a couple caster feats. Might have to sacrifice some con.
-You can HEAVILY spec for crossbows - go high dex (just enough for IPS), MAX int, take 6 rog levels or mechanic, take crossbow feats.. Sacrifice caster feats entirely (and spell slots, sp ,etc)


Agreed...although I do think they could do with a few more attack spells as currently they don't have many as their either race specific (construct,elemental) or high level (Blade Barrier,Tactical Detonation) leaving only Lightning Sphere & Blast Rod Pre-Lvl 15...unless you count Flame Turret which is awesome but can't be meta'd (like alot of arty spells) and is stationary...counts as a summon.

[rimble]

Yea --have-- to?
Say who?

Also who said crossbow are their "main weapon". The official description tells us that they can "attack their enemies in many ways". They are more of an all-around caster hybrid then a pure dps ranged class.

Yeah, they HAVE TO be ranged...you know, like Rangers...

[Aashrym]

Yeah, they HAVE TO be ranged...you know, like Rangers...

Is this serious or sarcasm? I see no smiley but if I had said this it would have been with sarcasm. ;)

[rimble]

Is this serious or sarcasm? I see no smiley but if I had said this it would have been with sarcasm. ;)

Of course it's sarcasm...sheesh...

[Aashrym]

of Course It's Sarcasm...sheesh...

:d

[Cyr]

At what level to artificers get the int to damage spell?

[rimble]

At what level to artificers get the int to damage spell?

6

(the forum wants me to type more junk...)

[NeutronStar]

At what level to artificers get the int to damage spell?

One of the posters above said he was 8th level and he had it. I was surprised it was that low.

[NeutronStar]

One of the posters above said he was 8th level and he had it. I was surprised it was that low.


6

(the forum wants me to type more junk...)

Really rimble? That's pretty darned awesome if true. (We're talking about the INSIGHTFUL DAMAGE infusion which is a 3rd level infusion. The INSIGHTFUL STRIKE infusion is a 2nd level infusion)

Could anybody PLEASE make a DDO Artificer Spell/Infusion Progression Table and post it?

[Ryiah]

The "i want it all at the same time!" attitude isn't a compelling arguement in a game that rewards specialization and encourages build variety.

I think that depends entirely on the player's expectations. Last night I went with a static party and got to level 18 in about eight hours. For my build, I experimented around with stats but my three primary stats on a Warforged pure Artificer were 16 Dexterity, 16 Constitution, and 16 Intelligence. Level ups went into Intelligence.

So far my repeater, a +3 Holy Burst Repeating Heavy Crossbow of Pure Good, is doing pretty decent damage. I'm seeing about 70 per critical on the base damage using a Blood Stone and Insightful Damage. Along with about six other numbers going up at the same time. It gets a bit hard to keep track of, but I'd say the damage is pretty decent.

My Blade Barriers are landing for about 300 to 400 points with Empower, Maximize, and Heighten along with the entire Force damage line and a good chunk of the Force Critical Chance and Multiplier line. Though I haven't really had an enemy stay alive long enough to notice criticals because our party has been zerging too hard for me to bother.

I wish Gianthold had a lower minimum level. We stepped into Trial by Fire at level 10 on Elite. The end boss was more annoying than challenging. This despite being almost completely ungeared (about all I have are my weapon and a rune arm from Tangleroot) and relying on House P favor buffs for stat boosts.

So while this attitude might not work with elitists, I think it'll hold up just fine with most people. One could even say the class is a bit overpowered. But, unlike some people, I won't make a decision until I've capped and had a chance to run at least the basic Epic quests and a raid or two.

[licho]

IMO: This game would be much better and more fun if:
Bow strenght will not exist, or in other words will be granted for every class/race proficient with bows.
Every xbow user could add half of this dex mod to xbow dmg, and mechanics will be adding 0.5dex +1x int

Reason: Nowadays its too often when enemy on platform is a untouchable for right build melee.
In the same time caster kill it with single click.
Which creates some confusion if smbd jump from arcane to melee.

Just my 3 plat.

[rimble]

Really rimble? That's pretty darned awesome if true. (We're talking about the INSIGHTFUL DAMAGE infusion which is a 3rd level infusion. The INSIGHTFUL STRIKE infusion is a 2nd level infusion)

Could anybody PLEASE make a DDO Artificer Spell/Infusion Progression Table and post it?

ddowiki has been updated...that's what I'm going off of...and some other discussions I've had on the forums...don't have time myself for Lamannia.

[Failedlegend]

Really rimble? That's pretty darned awesome if true. (We're talking about the INSIGHTFUL DAMAGE infusion which is a 3rd level infusion. The INSIGHTFUL STRIKE infusion is a 2nd level infusion)

Could anybody PLEASE make a DDO Artificer Spell/Infusion Progression Table and post it?

FYI you have to choose one or the other.

[Ertay]

My Blade Barriers are landing for about 300 to 400 points with Empower, Maximize, and Heighten along with the entire Force damage line and a good chunk of the Force Critical Chance and Multiplier line. Though I haven't really had an enemy stay alive long enough to notice criticals because our party has been zerging too hard for me to bother.


Drop heighten. It will only ever raise a spells' level to the highest one you can cast, which happens to be lvl6 where blade barrier is at.

[Ryiah]

Drop heighten. It will only ever raise a spells' level to the highest one you can cast, which happens to be lvl6 where blade barrier is at.

Oh right. I was pretty tired after leveling for so long it never occured to me. :o

[Jackal912]

Artificers will already have to put points into Int and Con by default - having to also pump Dex just to use their main weapon - and then only ever have the same damage infusion on their weapon seems like a big drag. Or else they can have a bonus to hit - and do half damage, or do good damage but miss a lot.


Actually, the int-to-attack and int-to-damage buffs are special - they'e exclusvie with each other but NOT with other mods. So, you have base damage, doubled from point blank shot, plus the enhancement bonus (two higher than it should be due to PRE), plus int mod, plus 1d6 from let's say.. holy burst, plus 1d6 element of your choice from elemental weapons, plus 2d8 acid from a runearm - it adds up to pretty impressive damage ,especially when you consider that all that bonus damage on a repeater that can fire 3-shot bursts, so it's applied three times... and even THEN you can use the PRE action boost that removes any delay between attacks and reloading for 6 seconds of machinegun.

[Aashrym]

One of the posters above said he was 8th level and he had it. I was surprised it was that low.

Level 6 gets 3rd level spells already, including blast rod. Up to 10d8 waited dice (1d4+4 per level max 10th).

I did not actually see a lot of damage spells tho. The ones I did see look pretty good for a jack of trades - support - capped and level 6 spells class.

[Alavatar]

Can you say:

Epic Hellfire Crossbow (http://itemwiki.cubicleninja.com/Items/ItemDetails.aspx?itemID=1382)?

Point Blank Shot with that will be pretty sexy.

[NeutronStar]

FYI you have to choose one or the other.

I know that.

[Spookyaction]

I know that.

ok

[Riggs]

Yea --have-- to?
Say who?

Also who said crossbow are their "main weapon". The official description tells us that they can "attack their enemies in many ways". They are more of an all-around caster hybrid then a pure dps ranged class.

It's illogical to think that Artificer should be 110% effective at everything they do, and very contrary to the nature of the game.

The current setup just makes perfect sense as it allows multiple paths:
-You can spec fully for spellcasting (Seems like what they shoudl be best at imo) .. Go high int, high con, take spellcaster feats. Youll stil have basic crossbow dmg far superior to any other caster thx to insightful strikes and free feats.
-You can spec for crossbows while retaining some caster ability - go high dex, high int +lvl up points and take most crossbow feats, and a couple caster feats. Might have to sacrifice some con.
-You can HEAVILY spec for crossbows - go high dex (just enough for IPS), MAX int, take 6 rog levels or mechanic, take crossbow feats.. Sacrifice caster feats entirely (and spell slots, sp ,etc)

The "i want it all at the same time!" attitude isn't a compelling arguement in a game that rewards specialization and encourages build variety.

Giving them easy access to Int for everything reduces variety and customization.

If you want to hit anything other than trash with the bow - then yes you would have to. Or - you only EVER use the to hit infusion on every weapon - which sounds a lot like 'reducing variety and customization' no?

They are from the ground up a multipurpose class than are meant to do several things well - not as good as dedicated classes - but well. A xbow that cant hit things at high level is not "Doing it well" - which leaves wands. Even if you hit with the infusion bonus - a level 20 spell +75% or maybe more is going to be doing a lot more damage - so again wands win out it sounds like.

A 3/4 bab class using a secondary stat to hit is going to miss a lot when you really need to not miss. (no one really cares about trash I hope). Unless you take a drow and max out dex - and be a one hit wonder with the max 12 con you can afford.

Given rune arms - any artificer using a shield will be a stupid artificer really - as the class has no tanky abilities, so Turbine has basically made wands or xbows the only options for the class.

If wands are so much better than xbows at higher levels with the item bonuses they get - my original point of asking why should you use bows at all still stands.

Saying I want Artificers to be 110% at everything is dishonest and misleading. It is saying they are better casters than sorcs, and better rogues than rogues, and better rangers than rangers - all at once.

They will never be as good at ranged as a ranger even if they put every possible feat into it and got Int damage and to hit on top. And as mentioned a few times - 1 infusion max per weapon excludes anything other than the to hit bonus - except on trash.

Sure they can do traps - so what anyone with 2 rogue levels can do traps too.

The spells I have seen seem good - but they have a fraction of the offensive spells of arcanes or divine casters.


As already said - rangers get bow damage, or anyone else can take it with several feats. Throwers can take Brutal throw to use str instead of dex if they want. Rogues can use Int damage on xbows - so why is there any possible game reason not to have a feat others can take to also get Int damage? And all for a weapon that is currently never used in game because it is so pathetic...

And saying someone should take 6 levels of another class to make their main class better has a pretty big logical hole in it no?

Name one single game logic reason mechanics only can be good with a xbow and no other class - even fighters if they choose to have a high int for some reason.

If one can just take a force missile wand, or any scroll, and cast it at level 20 which seems to be the case - doing more damage than any xbow is going to do - it seems a complete and utter waste of developer time and effort and planning to make rune arms and spend so much on 'fixing' xbows and making them work together just for Artificers etc. Clearly Turbine planned for the class to use xbows - to pretend to miss that fact is just petty.

And no matter how excited people get about having multiple numbers and some faster xbow action - it will never match rangers or arcane archers - which do less damage than melee anyway - so worrying about getting some extra xbow damage seems an overreaction to say the least.

[Riggs]

Actually, the int-to-attack and int-to-damage buffs are special - they'e exclusvie with each other but NOT with other mods. So, you have base damage, doubled from point blank shot, plus the enhancement bonus (two higher than it should be due to PRE), plus int mod, plus 1d6 from let's say.. holy burst, plus 1d6 element of your choice from elemental weapons, plus 2d8 acid from a runearm - it adds up to pretty impressive damage ,especially when you consider that all that bonus damage on a repeater that can fire 3-shot bursts, so it's applied three times... and even THEN you can use the PRE action boost that removes any delay between attacks and reloading for 6 seconds of machinegun.

If a wand can do say 200 damage a pop - even if it is slightly slower than the bow, and a 6 second burst of machinegun sounds nice (but over the long term doesnt add a ton to the average damage) but doing 30-40 damage on a xbow isnt really all that massive considering what other classes do for damage.