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grodon9999
08-15-2011, 03:06 PM
We don't see a lot of Half-elf melees, could be for a reason as simple as people don't want to look ugly. A lot of it’s psychological as people see the big half-orc and think it’s more ubber. With the sneak attack and the changes to damage boosts in U11 the helf will become the master race for TWFing.

But I've been running the numbers, and I like what I see. The U11 updates will make them even better with the changes to damage boost as HV damage boost can be used at the same time as fighter haste boost. If the fight is 5 minutes or less you will put out amazing DPS. This is one thing where pure will win though is if the fights go significantly longer than 5 minutes, we’ll see after U11 puts our raid-bosses on Steroids.

The Helf lets you take that rogue Dilettante for 10.5 sneak-attack per swing. That adds up to a butt-load of extra damage in most situations. You can get Human Healing amp and and even put an Enhancement point in STR.

The Original 12/6/2 build is “The Monster” http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=172630 great build but a lot has changed since it first came out.

My tank version of the 12/6/2 “The Meathelmet” (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=294454) does what I want it to do. For a long time I would switch it from Stalwart to kensai for the weekends to run him on epics. But the U9 changes killed that. The helplessness changes made his heavy-pick and war-hammer combo (50 stunning blow DC) suck. The damage was just garbage like that and with the raised fort-save I couldn’t stun anything without a weighted weapon. With insta-kills working the stunning simply wasn’t needed as much as it used to be. We started short-manning more epics so my ranger became my go-to guy because of his self-buffing and self-healing. Meat stays a Stalwart Defender and I only use him in raids.

In the original Meathelmet thread I stated “So why make 1 character that fills two roles instead of making two toons? This game has been such an absurd grind that I’d rather stick my junk in a beehive than make another toon.” Well . . . Meat has all the gear I want for him except a Chattering ring, he’s got everything else already, he’s fully equipped for what I want him to do. I could squeeze in a little more mojo but I do not feel like redo what he has. As far as I’m concerned his gear is done. At the time I was trying to kit out 3 melees, now they are geared to the gills and really don’t need anything, I have more than enough stuff laying around to get a new melee pretty much fully equipped as soon as they get enough shards from Shroud.

Also with the bosses getting as much of an update as they are in U11, I’m concerned about Meat’s viability as a tank. I may have to drop a few critical DPS feats for additional toughness feat (if 90 AC and 760 HP aren’t enough God help us all!). Only feats on the chopping block for more toughness are Improved Crit and Power Attack. If I have to drop these his viabilility as a DPS kensai goes straight to the toilet. I’m not sure if the splilt-roll toon is going to be an option at all after U11, we’ll see.

Now why 12/6/2 and not 18/2 or pure? Pure fighter is a good choice, as is 18/2 with kensai III. I’m building for survivability as well as DPS. I never put all my eggs in one basket, if you think a toon needs to do that to do well in modern DDO please stop reading an go to the latest “MOAR DPS!!!” build that comes up every hour.

Ranger 6 isn’t what it used to be but it’s still a good splash. 10% more off-hand damage adds up on a toon with 18.5 points of sneak attack per swing. I’d say that helf versus Warforged, helf makes this go from “viable” up to optimal” because of the sneak attack.

Is it max-DPS? No, it’s very good damage output that can be sustained for enough time to kill the tougher raid bosses. I suspect the full-****** ESoS barbs will have that title next update and beyond with the damage boost changes giving them a huge boost.

9 points of damage against two FE (Counting Ram’s might)puts a 12/6/2 above a pure (all other things being equal) or 18/2 and only a little bit behind against non-FEs. Most of this end-game is still “Dungeons and Devils,” most of the stuff in this game that’s hard to kill are evil–outsiders.

AC potential (if you care about that) is the same between a 12/6/2 and an 18/2, but the 12/6/2 will have about 5 more reflex save. The 12/6/2 can have evasion on more than just paper. When we have the Judge in Elite Tower spamming 200 point chain lightnings any damage avoidance will pay off in spades.

HP will be decent but you will want to avoid doing anything like tanking Horoth with this build. AC will keep you alive where it works, useful evasion and healing amp will keep you alive where it doesn’t. 56 sustainable STR and 32 sustainable CON makes this guy pretty darn tough, even if he looks like a Ken-doll thrown in a microwave.

HP
Fighter 120
Ranger 48
Monk 16
CON 180
Toughnes 22
heroic 20
Draconic 10
Shroud 45
Minos 20
GFL 30
Airship 20
Enhancements 40

571 HP - should survive a hit or two if Horoth turns. More with madstone and/or fabricator procs.

This is a gear-intensive build with 3 piece Abishai and a bunch of other stuff. But every toon will need good gear to excel in DDO. I didn’t go with claw-set as this is I think Abishai works better and doesn’t generate the additional threat you won’t always want. If you get Fabricators bracers you can zero out the threat with a Tharnes rune on DT robes.

I built it for nothing better than +2 tomes. Planning for +3/+4 tomes in silly for a 32-point toon.

http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/1553/hermaphrodite2.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/16/hermaphrodite2.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

The APs are very tight, you can drop the WIS and DEX enhancements but I hate odd numbers. You can also dump INT and WIS for more CON if you want but I think a 28-32 sustainable CON should be more than enough. I like having skill points and AC so I’m choosing that over 20 HP.

Builds are guidelines, not gospels. There are three feat that I wasn’t sure what to do with so I took Combat Expertise, Two Weapon Defense, and Skill Focus: UMD. You can drop them all and go for toughness or try something different. I took two of them for an AC option in case it ever needs to take raid-bosses. It’s not designed to do that but should be fine holding agro with a head start and a Cannith crafted 20% incite weapon.

I thought about tactics, but you won’t have the APs available to not make them not suck and I don’t think stunning is needed on a melee at this time. Quick-draw can also be considered optional but I want as little down-time as possible woth boost-activations as it gets so much of its DPS from the boosts.

For skills, put as much UMD and intimidate as possible. Enough to unlock tumble, and maybe a few in jump. If you get luck and pull 7-fingered gloves and some Crystal cove stuff you’ll be able to get enough for 95% heal scrolls.


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.8.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 Lawful NeutralHalf-Elf Female
(12 Fighter \ 2 Monk \ 6 Ranger)
Hit Points: 326
Spell Points: 70
BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
Fortitude: 19
Reflex: 16
Will: 12

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 16 21
Dexterity 15 18
Constitution 14 16
Intelligence 11 13
Wisdom 13 16
Charisma 8 10

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

[
[/COLOR]
Level 1 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Dodge
Feat: (Half-Elf Dilettante) Half-Elf Dilettante: Rogue
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 2 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Giant


Level 3 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Mobility


Level 4 (Ranger)


Level 5 (Ranger)


Level 6 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider
Feat: (Selected) Spring Attack


Level 7 (Ranger)


Level 8 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 9 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 10 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons


Level 11 (Fighter)


Level 12 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Selected) Khopesh


Level 13 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack


Level 14 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Combat Expertise


Level 15 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting


Level 16 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 17 (Fighter)


Level 18 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Quick Draw
Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Use Magic Device


Level 19 (Fighter)


Level 20 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Extra Action Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost III
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost IV
Enhancement: Kensei Khopesh Mastery I
Enhancement: Kensei Khopesh Mastery II
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei I
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei II
Enhancement: Fighter Khopesh Specialization I
Enhancement: Improved Rogue Dilettante I
Enhancement: Improved Rogue Dilettante II
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Dexterity I
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Human Versatility II
Enhancement: Human Versatility III
Enhancement: Human Versatility IV
Enhancement: Way of the Faithful Hound I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Attack I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage II
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Defense I
Enhancement: Ranger Tempest I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II




This was my first plan for gear, but if those Fabricator bracers don’t get nerfed I’ll go with set #2. I suspect long encounters is what we’ll see more of going forward so I’m planning the for those 2 extra boost with Shintao maybe for shorter fights. . . .

Head Mineral II
Neck Kensai
Belt Ravager
Armor Icy Raiments/DT/Red Scale maybe
Ring 1 kensai (20% healing Amp)
Ring 2 Ravager (+2 STR)
Boots Madstone/Striding
Bracers Epic Scorched (Toughness)
Cloak Epic Envenomed (GFL)
Gloves Epic Charged Gauntlets (Slot something)
Goggles Tharnes/Something else for "has aggro" mode

Set #2 is if I wanna include Fabricators bracers, this assumes they work as good in live as they do on Lamania. If they do forget Madstone boots, Reaver’s a big waste of time these days anyway..
Head Mineral II
Neck Kensai
Belt Ravager
Armor Icy Raiments/DT/Red Scale maybe
Ring 1 kensai (20% healing Amp)
Ring 2 Ravager (+2 STR)
Boots Epic boots of Corrosion(Toughness)
Bracers Fabricators bracers
Cloak Epic Envenomed (GFL)
Gloves Epic Charged Gauntlets (Slot something)
Goggles Tharnes/Something else for "has aggro" mode

You can do this with crappier gear and still be fine, I just happen to have the scrolls and most of the shards ready to go. lots of different options, choose what works for you and your "budget."

Not going to do an AC break-down as it’s not an AC build, but it could break 80 raid-buffed without trying, 90 if you really grind.

EDIT: Forgot to take Khopesh, DOH!! Two weapon defense got removed, not needed anyway.

Vissarion
08-15-2011, 03:19 PM
Cool build, and +1 for the build's name. :P

Chette
08-15-2011, 03:49 PM
As soon as I saw this build's name I wondered if it was a build of yours, and I was right! Looks pretty uber. I stocked up on ninja masks once I saw the benefits of half-elf, because I'm certainly not going to play one with their face showing.

Vissarion
08-15-2011, 05:00 PM
Quick note: I don't believe you actually need Greater Weapon Focus in order to get Greater Weapon Specialization for Kensei II, so you could always spend that feat on something more useful.

dingal
08-15-2011, 05:07 PM
Wait a minute, screw your build all I got out of this is that I will be able to run haste boost and attack boost at the same time? When did this get announced?

dingal
08-15-2011, 05:07 PM
And stop making moar rangers you damned addict!

Dwarfo
08-15-2011, 05:09 PM
i might try this build, ive had a monster, mini monster...blitz..blah blah. ill make this or the helves angel, and there basically the same i think.

Ganolyn
08-15-2011, 05:09 PM
Leave it to you to make something repulsively desirable. Are you sure you are not part of the Jersey Shore cast? :p

k1ngp1n
08-15-2011, 05:10 PM
Wait a minute, screw your build all I got out of this is that I will be able to run haste boost and attack boost at the same time? When did this get announced?

Human versatility and haste boost can be pressed at the same time to get both effects. Been like this for a while.

dingal
08-15-2011, 05:13 PM
Human versatility and haste boost can be pressed at the same time to get both effects. Been like this for a while.

Ah well if it's not Half Orc I won't be rolling it. Apparently that's the only race I own.

kernal42
08-15-2011, 05:46 PM
Interested in your opinion here Grodon.

Why Helf Fighter12/Ranger6/Monk2 over Ranger12/Fighter7/Monk1 ?
The hps are similar (Fighter wins by ~20 hp), the dps are similar (Ranger wins when not boosted; Fighter wins when boosted). The Ranger has better saves, better buffs, IPS, and higher AC potential.

-Kernal

grodon9999
08-15-2011, 05:48 PM
And stop making moar rangers you damned addict!

It's a TR life for my elf (hence me forgetting Khopesh) translated to 32 points.

grodon9999
08-15-2011, 05:51 PM
Interested in your opinion here Grodon.

Why Helf Fighter12/Ranger6/Monk2 over Ranger12/Fighter7/Monk1 ?
The hps are similar (Fighter wins by ~20 hp), the dps are similar (Ranger wins when not boosted; Fighter wins when boosted). The Ranger has better saves, better buffs, IPS, and higher AC potential.

-Kernal

Endurance, the Kensai II has more boosts and will last longer in a fight. Also gets a fighter PL when done which is WAY more useful than the ranger. As mentioned above it was a planned fighter life for one of my Exploiters translated into a 32-point build.

dingal
08-15-2011, 06:14 PM
Endurance, the Kensai II has more boosts and will last longer in a fight. Also gets a fighter PL when done which is WAY more useful than the ranger. As mentioned above it was a planned fighter life for one of my Exploiters translated into a 32-point build.


You should come to the darkside and roll a full ****** barbarian with silver flame pots! Get that barb past life!

grodon9999
08-15-2011, 06:17 PM
You should come to the darkside and roll a full ****** barbarian with silver flame pots! Get that barb past life!

Barb PL = +5 hearts of wood :)

dingal
08-15-2011, 06:34 PM
Barb PL = +5 hearts of wood :)

You just need to feel the power of 800hp and 450pt heal pots!

You'd never turn back.

azmodeus1
08-15-2011, 07:16 PM
We don't see a lot of Half-elf melees, could be for a reason as simple as people don't want to look like trans-gender burn-victims.

rofl

Aerendil
08-15-2011, 08:12 PM
Fyi, if you can stomach playing a female, the Half-elf models for them aren't half bad.

It's just the males that look like they've had too much botox :/


Good build, though. I like it.
Had a feeling you or someone else would soon come up with a Half-elven new dps build, given U11's upcoming changes as well as the fabricator bracers.

FYI, you can probably get by with 0 points into Jump.
If you scoop it as one of your Ranger spells, you can get +20 to it (at level 5 Ranger I believe). Str should carry you the rest of the way, and if not, Greater Heroism certainly will.


*edit* - PS, it would be interesting to see a Human version of this using twin eChimera's Fangs...

voodoogroves
08-15-2011, 09:03 PM
Man I can't seem to reply.

I think this is certainly going to be one of the more popular directions; I also expect Monk 6 / Fighter 12 to be solid as well - pimping the shadow fade ...

grodon9999
08-16-2011, 08:39 AM
WOW . . . a build-thread gets censored. :)

Clawkin
08-16-2011, 12:59 PM
Looks like a lot of fun. I am currious why you didn't take Ranger at first level for skill points?

grodon9999
08-16-2011, 01:02 PM
Looks like a lot of fun. I am currious why you didn't take Ranger at first level for skill points?

To maximize intimidate, but ranger first level is fine if you don't care about that.

Dark-Star
08-16-2011, 01:05 PM
Nice build, I agree the Monster split will continue to make its resurgence in U11.

Since you seem to have a few extra feats, and you are in fact going Half Elf, have you considered going the Arcane Archer version? It looks like you'd give up a few points of AC and ~8% off hand swings. In return you get a room clearing ability in Many Shot + Improved Precise Shot. Many Shot already does sick DPS, I can only imagine what will happen when Point Blank Shot doubles bow base damage while Haste Boost four is running with 25% increased damage from the new Damage Boost 4.

Since you are Half Elf, I suppose you could try it both ways and see what you prefer.

grodon9999
08-16-2011, 01:27 PM
Nice build, I agree the Monster split will continue to make its resurgence in U11.

Since you seem to have a few extra feats, and you are in fact going Half Elf, have you considered going the Arcane Archer version? It looks like you'd give up a few points of AC and ~8% off hand swings. In return you get a room clearing ability in Many Shot + Improved Precise Shot. Many Shot already does sick DPS, I can only imagine what will happen when Point Blank Shot doubles bow base damage while Haste Boost four is running with 25% increased damage from the new Damage Boost 4.

Since you are Half Elf, I suppose you could try it both ways and see what you prefer.

Yeah, but then it'd be the helves-angel and we already have that :)

This was actually planned for a TR for an elf ranger of mine who has a lightning II bow and an Epic Thornlord. if the ranged pass happens to rock something similar will happen with her. She was an AA in her first life, is a tempest currently.

The problem with going AA over tempest is getting that 19 DEX for IPS, that's really expensive without better tomes. This is presented as a 32-point build and I generally will not use anything better than a +2 in a 32-point life.

Also AAs in general . . . are problematic. That absurd burst-damage in the current raid-game that's all about aggro control can really foul things up. Controlled, sustained DPS without huge spikes is an easy raid every time. more times than I can count I've seen an AA pull aggro and get eaten by a boss and with the U11 changes it's more important than ever to make sure the boss in an elite/epic raid is pounding on somebody who can take the beating and not somebody who dies in 2-3 hits.

But yeah, this type of build has a stupid amount of extra feats which I literally didn't know what to take so I picked some silly stuff, you absolutely could fit in Arcane Archer if you wish. Another option, which gets absurd in the DPS calc, are pally and rogue past lives. if you happen to have those available you are a god for 3 minutes.

LordPiglet
08-16-2011, 01:32 PM
Endurance, the Kensai II has more boosts and will last longer in a fight. Also gets a fighter PL when done which is WAY more useful than the ranger. As mentioned above it was a planned fighter life for one of my Exploiters translated into a 32-point build.

Fighter 12 also gives you power surge

Personally, I went 2 rogue for umd and then took the monk dily. I'm getting AC and healing amp, need to reset it though with the change and use the points to grab more human versitility. I already damage and haste boosted at the same time. I hit 210% healing amp without epic gloves of the claw. In EDA I can tank while being bard healed, or FvS capstone healed.

Personally, run with Veriks, however I am trying to get the stalwart set also for threat mode.

Thrudh
08-16-2011, 01:45 PM
How is this different from the standard monster?

You just made it a half-elf...

Good breakdown of feats and stats for new players though..

Thrudh
08-16-2011, 01:48 PM
Yes, a ton of feats... paladin past-life is well worth it.

I've been running a monster build all this time... It's never been gimp or even sub-optimal... It's always been solid, with great survivability. It will be funny to see the power-gamers come running back to it (not talking about you Grodon since you also make fun of the "uber max DPS or you're gimp" crowd, and Meat has been a monster build through all these changes too)

grodon9999
08-16-2011, 01:49 PM
How is this different from the standard monster?

You just made it a half-elf...

Good breakdown of feats and stats for new players though..

It's not that different at all, it just does a more damage :)

grodon9999
08-16-2011, 02:00 PM
Yes, a ton of feats... paladin past-life is well worth it.

I've been running a monster build all this time... It's never been gimp or even sub-optimal... It's always been solid, with great survivability. It will be funny to see the power-gamers come running back to it (not talking about you Grodon since you also make fun of the "uber max DPS or you're gimp" crowd, and Meat has been a monster build through all these changes too)

Let's keep it real though, the original Monster took a big hit when Tempest got nerfed. It was claimed (and situationally may have been) to be the "max-DPS" build at the time. If you're building for that in mind, it was sub-optimal. A LOT changed since it's inception, mostly the more varied foes in the epic endgame and the Epic SOS.

Sub-optimal can still be viable, there's a whole lotta grey-area in this game.

Helf and the damage boost changes of U11 change that, at least for a toon that mostly hits bosses in the back but could handle itself if it get's aggro. The extra 10% off-hand pays off with all that sneak attack. As i said int he OP its not "max-DPS" as the THFing barbs are getting a huge boost as well. But it'll be a high-DPS toon.

Cold_Stele
08-16-2011, 06:23 PM
Any idea what the DPS is compared to Ftr20 HElf?

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=3997113&postcount=40

grodon9999
08-16-2011, 08:10 PM
Any idea what the DPS is compared to Ftr20 HElf?

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=3997113&postcount=40

V uses a different DPS calc, I use AOs. so the numbers will be off a little but the ratios's the same.

Monster wins againsts it's two Favored enemies, pure figher wins in non-FE situations. Pure Fighter will have more boosts though so the for long fights it is better.

The Monster has better defensive options.

cforce
08-16-2011, 08:18 PM
The Monster has better defensive options.

QFE. The Monster template (situationally) deals slightly less damage than a pure Kensai 20, but the Monster has significantly better defensive options.

Half-Elf monster popped up on my radar, too, as a very good U11 option. Two Khopeshes Up.

LafoMamone
08-16-2011, 10:25 PM
But yeah, this type of build has a stupid amount of extra feats which I literally didn't know what to take so I picked some silly stuff, you absolutely could fit in Arcane Archer if you wish. Another option, which gets absurd in the DPS calc, are pally and rogue past lives. if you happen to have those available you are a god for 3 minutes.

I have actually been planning something like this for quite some time. Taking one of my rogues through a paladin life, then a helf monster with pally PL, rogue PL, and extend spell. 6 min pally PL and 12min Ram's Might = win.

grodon9999
08-17-2011, 10:39 AM
Quick note: I don't believe you actually need Greater Weapon Focus in order to get Greater Weapon Specialization for Kensei II, so you could always spend that feat on something more useful.

I had to confirm this but that is not correct unless the Compendium is wrong. GWS is a Kensai II requirment.

Cold_Stele
08-17-2011, 11:44 AM
I think he's saying GWF isn't a prereq for anything and can be dropped.

Seem to remember Blitz doing the same thing to free up a feat.

grodon9999
08-17-2011, 11:45 AM
I think he's saying GWF isn't a prereq for anything and can be dropped.

Seem to remember Blitz doing the same thing to free up a feat.

Sweet! Meathelmet just got 22 more HP! :)

Vissarion
08-18-2011, 02:58 PM
That is indeed what I meant. I found that out leveling my Kensei.

Reading back over my post, though, I can totally see how it would be unclear. Writing FTW!

RS-Makk
08-21-2011, 08:51 PM
What's a better past life? Rogue or Paladin?

Cold_Stele
08-22-2011, 06:12 AM
What's a better past life? Rogue or Paladin?

Rogue PLF for TWF DPS.

@ Grodon - are you sure about putting Tempest in there? Can't help feeling that 3xToughness feats are going to be a lot more beneficial (or Pally PLF/Extend if you have it).

Thondarr
08-22-2011, 06:43 AM
TRed my elven monster build a month or two ago as well and made her helf...

took cleric dilletante though for lvling as I solo quite a lot and heal scrolls are quite handy from time to time.

gonna switch to rogue dill eventually for xtra dps though

Cold_Stele
08-22-2011, 08:50 AM
took cleric dilletante though for lvling as I solo quite a lot and heal scrolls are quite handy from time to time.

How did you find the Cleric dilly? I was thinking of using it to level too, but it seems that with scrolls needing Concentration checks, it's going to let you down when you need it most...

Thondarr
08-22-2011, 08:58 AM
hm, honestly, with relatively good saves, evasion and moderate AC... I don't fail often. But true, it MIGHT fail just when you need it the most :D

but still, with some amp gear etc scrolls hit for about... 150 at least which is pretty nice, at least for the times between combat. And if you solo a lot you don't really profit from rog dilly as much as you'd like...

grodon9999
08-22-2011, 09:18 AM
Rogue PLF for TWF DPS.

@ Grodon - are you sure about putting Tempest in there? Can't help feeling that 3xToughness feats are going to be a lot more beneficial (or Pally PLF/Extend if you have it).

I've actually thought of dropping some of the fluff feats for more toughness feats, we'll see how rough the new content is. i've just never had a problem surviving anything on a 500 HP evasion toon and this as is will break 600 with fabricator procs.

But there is a DPS loss losing Tempest 1.

The DPS drops from 633/531 to 602/505 without tempest 1 (no aggo, favored enemy, raid-buffed, geared to the gills, lightning II Khopeshes, fight short enough to have perpetual boosts, etc . . .) in AO's calc when adjusted for the damage output that the new HV boosts will provide. That is still obnoxiously good DPS.

Spring-attack against high-AC mobs is awesome as well, it's nice never missing even when you are moving. I ran my tanky-monster over the weekend as a Kensai and forgot how much fun and how useful he was (and got to taunt the hell out of my friend's TRs who i was out-killing and stealing aggro :) ) in the pure-killing roll. A helf version will destroy it as long as boosts are active.

If you're gonna drop tempest take Arcane Archer, but then you'll be a Helve's Angel and have to go to that other thread :)

Cold_Stele
08-22-2011, 04:40 PM
After TR'ing to HElf I intended to go FvS until I heard about the U11 changes. Now I've LR'ed back to melee, here's the plan, compared to your build -

Drop - Dodge, Mobility, SA, CE, OTWF, GWFocus, Skill Focus - UMD

Take 3 X THF feats, Pally PL, Extend, 2 X Toughness

I do think 95% of the time TWF Lit II Khops are going to be best DPS. Against high fort raid bosses they may start to suffer though, and then's the time to pull out the eSoS with Artificer buffs.

I would have like to have gone THF only, but the HElf dillies synergise badly.

*edit* I remember Consumer took a lot of flak at Christmas time for recommending taking TWF and THF. I think U11 might make us go back and look at that again...

grodon9999
08-22-2011, 04:48 PM
After TR'ing to HElf I intended to go FvS until I heard about the U11 changes. Now I've LR'ed back to melee, here's the plan, compared to your build -

Drop - Dodge, Mobility, SA, CE, OTWF, GWFocus, Skill Focus - UMD

Take 3 X THF feats, Pally PL, Extend, 2 X Toughness

I do think 95% of the time TWF Lit II Khops are going to be best DPS. Against high fort raid bosses they may start to suffer though, and then's the time to pull out the eSoS with Artificer buffs.

I would have like to have gone THF only, but the HElf dillies synergise badly.

i think thats' spreading yourself too thin, and I think if you're a kensai it's not a good idea to not use youre weapon of choiuce. Though i must admit it's a clever way to fit both the TWFing and THFing feats on a toon.

LordPiglet
08-22-2011, 05:46 PM
What about a helf monster vs a helf blitz?

I'm really considering moving to a helf blitz as I already run a modified helf monster (athough was AO using 2 rogue instead of monk on the last damage chart)?

Cold_Stele
08-22-2011, 06:34 PM
i think thats' spreading yourself too thin, and I think if you're a kensai it's not a good idea to not use youre weapon of choiuce. Though i must admit it's a clever way to fit both the TWFing and THFing feats on a toon.

TWF would get the +2 to hit and +3 damage from Kensai II and Ftr Wpn Spec I. THF will just have to settle for the 10d6 base damage from Deadly Weapons I guess :rolleyes:

EpiKagEMO
08-23-2011, 12:03 AM
i think its that helves cant out dps a human, or a pure elf(racial enhancements). they have good dillys, but only if you use them right.

grodon9999
08-23-2011, 10:05 AM
i think its that helves cant out dps a human, or a pure elf(racial enhancements). they have good dillys, but only if you use them right.

And you are wrong. 3d6 Sneak-attack from rogue dilly = duh! Winning!

voodoogroves
08-23-2011, 10:13 AM
And you are wrong. 3d6 Sneak-attack from rogue dilly = duh! Winning!

It is going to lose some value from the fort-nerf

grodon9999
08-23-2011, 10:17 AM
What about a helf monster vs a helf blitz?

I'm really considering moving to a helf blitz as I already run a modified helf monster (athough was AO using 2 rogue instead of monk on the last damage chart)?

The damage looks the same againsts FEs in the DPS calc with equal gear. That's with a sustainable 56 STR versus 66 for the Blitz, I'm assuming 32 point builds with no PLs.

blitz takes the lead against non-FEs.

grodon9999
08-23-2011, 10:27 AM
It is going to lose some value from the fort-nerf

I know, but the forts aren't going about 50% (from what I've seen) so BFD DPS will be fine.

RS-Makk
10-08-2011, 04:25 PM
So I was undecided for my tr between this and helves angel, or perhaps, since I have all sorts of ac gear, that emerald build. I think I will probably tr my drow ranger/rogue/monk into this, then I could easily switch to the tank (meathelmet) version if needed.

Thing is, all my greensteel goods are rapiers (one is a rad2 rapier) so I'll probably stick with that. Also, I have some options for what past life to go for (ranger if I tr with current mix, rogue with one gr with a +3 heart, or use my +3 and +5 just to get a paladin pl) and am leaning towards the paladin route.

Also, bummer is my offhand for trash or non dr bosses is the tier3 cove short sword with a lit2. Big hit from it not being a kensai weapon (the rapiers will be) or should I try to craft a 2nd lit2?

grodon9999
11-09-2011, 09:29 AM
So I was undecided for my tr between this and helves angel, or perhaps, since I have all sorts of ac gear, that emerald build. I think I will probably tr my drow ranger/rogue/monk into this, then I could easily switch to the tank (meathelmet) version if needed.

Thing is, all my greensteel goods are rapiers (one is a rad2 rapier) so I'll probably stick with that. Also, I have some options for what past life to go for (ranger if I tr with current mix, rogue with one gr with a +3 heart, or use my +3 and +5 just to get a paladin pl) and am leaning towards the paladin route.

Also, bummer is my offhand for trash or non dr bosses is the tier3 cove short sword with a lit2. Big hit from it not being a kensai weapon (the rapiers will be) or should I try to craft a 2nd lit2?

Sorry for the delayed reply . . .

Nothing wrong with rapiers. The damage isn't as far behind khopeshes as most people think and situationally they are better. In non-epic content WOPS are fantastic and will kill things better than khopeshes. The new Dargon-killing weapons from the challenges doesn't come in Khopesh form but does come in Rapier.

Replace your Crystal Cove Short Sword with an Alchemical air/air rapier. Some double-strike and you'll be able to get insight 4 AC and stunning 10 on it as well (stunning blow might be a good idea).

Regarding how this should be changed now that U11 has been out for a while . . . take improved Sunder. There were 3ish feats that I didn't know what to take and that's DEFINITELY worth taking. Stunning blow is probably worth taking again since you'll be able to craft stunning 10 on a non-blunt alchemical weapon.

Musashiclaw
01-11-2012, 04:11 PM
So I have an old style Monster from back in the day. I just started playing again and all I hear about is how if I had more healing amp. I still out dps most people in my groups but I am thinking about biting the bullet and TRing this guy soon. Everything Gordon posted about this build rang true to me. I like the utility of the bow damage when needed. I like being able to great dps vs my FE.

A few people in guild pick on me and my build.. they pick on the bow dps and the ranger/monk levels. They all are building barbs or Fighters with 2 rogue or monk levels. It is nice to be a little different!

Below is what I am looking at doing once I get my next cycle of abbot done for the Litany.(if it dont drop I will TR)

I am by means a DDO expert so any advice would be appreciated.
I have all the GS Khopeshs made and am working on Air/Air Alchemical Khopesh right now.
The Bracers of Wind from the Challenges look nice with the two slots, air guard and the +3 Dodge Bonus and Blur.
Only thing I am missing from the gear list below is Seal for Gloves, Boots and Litany(isnt everyone)
Kyosho's Ring
Ring of the Ravager
Shintao Cord
Colethenis's Belt
Supreme Tyrant Green Steel Helm of Earth
Tharne's Goggles
The Blood Stone
Icy Raiment
Epic Envenomed Cloak
Epic Scorched Bracers
Epic Charged Gauntlets
Epic Boots of Corrosion
Litany of the Dead


Feats might be out of order I did it quickly at work

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.12.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 Lawful Neutral Half-Elf Male
(12 Fighter \ 2 Monk \ 6 Ranger)
Hit Points: 346
Spell Points: 95
BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
Fortitude: 25
Reflex: 18
Will: 16

Starting Ending
Abilities Base Stats Base Stats
(34 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 16 24
Dexterity 15 18
Constitution 15 18
Intelligence 11 13
Wisdom 13 16
Charisma 8 11

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+3 Tome of Strength used at level 11
+3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 11
+3 Tome of Constitution used at level 11
+3 Tome of Wisdom used at level 11
+3 Tome of Charisma used at level 11

{\b {\ul Notable Equipment }} \par Kyosho's Ring \par Ring of the Ravager \par Shintao Cord \par Colethenis's Belt \par Supreme Tyrant Green Steel Helm of Earth \par Tharne's Goggles \par The Blood Stone \par Icy Raiment \par Epic Envenomed Cloak \par Epic Scorched Bracers \par Epic Charged Gauntlets \par Epic Boots of Corrosion \par Litany of the Dead \par \par Level 1 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Dodge
Feat: (Half-Elf Dilettante) Half-Elf Dilettante: Rogue
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Fighter
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 2 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead


Level 3 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Mobility


Level 4 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 5 (Ranger)


Level 6 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider
Feat: (Selected) Spring Attack


Level 7 (Ranger)


Level 8 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 9 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 10 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons


Level 11 (Fighter)


Level 12 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 13 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack


Level 14 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Improved Sunder


Level 15 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting


Level 16 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 17 (Fighter)


Level 18 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Quick Draw
Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Use Magic Device


Level 19 (Fighter)


Level 20 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons

Sunarch_Kunari
04-09-2012, 03:22 PM
How did you find the Cleric dilly? I was thinking of using it to level too, but it seems that with scrolls needing Concentration checks, it's going to let you down when you need it most...

Rangers can use cure mod wands, so I don't think the cleric dilly is worth much. (and it's 13 wis I think)

Monkey-Boy
04-09-2012, 03:26 PM
Rangers can use cure mod wands, so I don't think the cleric dilly is worth much. (and it's 13 wis I think)

I'm not sure you can really compare the use of cure wands to 95% chance on Heal-scrolls with no UMD check. One is okay and the other is amazing, especially once you pile on the healing amp.

Musashiclaw
04-09-2012, 03:42 PM
I have a cleric dilly on another toon and it has been great to be able to use Rez Scrolls at level 9.

Sunarch_Kunari
04-13-2012, 06:25 PM
But, really, when you can get that sneak attack, its not too worth it to get the cleric dilly especially because you can still heal yourself as a ranger. (definitely not something to depend on, but great for in between fights.)