Is multi-class only good for solo play?

[santiago66]

I'm beginning to think that my multi-class toons are great for solo play and duo parties but I'm finding it harder and harder to find groups to join when the toon gets to lev 8. The toon just doesn't add as much to the group as a single-class character.
Have other players experienced this situation and, if so, what advice can you offer?

[Kenpai]

It depends on the classes you're mixing together. A cleric/wizard/barbarian isn't going to get accepted to as many parties as a 18 wiz/2 rogue or a fighter/barbarian/ranger/rogue/monk mix.

[Eladiun]

This is entirely false. Many multi-class build are not only viable but superior is some ways to pure class builds. Over they years many multi's have been so good that they have been nerfed (i.e. Batman, Monster, Exploiter) and currently the Blitz multi is top DPS.

[Enoach]

This is interesting as the point of a multi-class character is trading features of one class for more desirable features of another class(es). Ideally this makes the character stronger/more rounded. However, there are some trade offs that are better then others.

Ideally you should be able to contribute in a group environment just as well as a full.

So now the question remains - have you defined the role/purpose of your multi-class build? Not sure what your mix is so not really able to assist you in understanding that part for your Character.

[FuzzyDuck81]

If you're having trouble grouping with yours, it's most likely to be because you might be using an unusual combination - at low levels the capabilties aren't impacted as much, but at mid to high levels any deficiencies in your build will become painfully obvious.

As a bit of general advice for multiclassing, you're best off planning out the entire thing in advance using one of the planners & going for things with abilities that complement each other - multiple casting classes are a bad idea since you'll be sub-par at both at later levels.

A few popular and effective multiclass builds:
- Wizard with rogue splash...2 levels of rogue taken at 1st & (typically) 9th levels, dump dexterity & take the insightful reflexes feat to use your INT for reflex saves instead of dexterity.. they can handle disarming etc. as well as most pure rogues, have a functional evasion & dont lose too much spell power. Many versions of this present on the forums, the "best" are usually warforged since you can self heal through repair/reconstruct spells but if going pale master any race can work. Very common & one of the few "no questions asked" multiclasses because its so well known & accepted.
- Ranger with rogue splash...for tempest melee rangers mainly, you gain a bit of sneak attack to boost damage & get enough skillpoints to keep your trap skills maximised. Often 1 level of rogue at 1st level then 1 monk or fighter level later on for a bonus feat. Another very common one where the gains massively outweigh the losses from not staying pure.
- Cleric with monk splash... AKA the "clonk", typically 18 cleric & 2 monk levels, grants evasion & 2 bonus feats.. loses out on some spell penetration but in water stance gains +2 to wisdom to boost spell DCs. Sometimes a 3rd monk level will be added to benefit from the elemental-positive-elemental-finisher buffs (primarily water/pos/water for 25% SP discount for 60secs). For melee use, it can often get a surprisingly high stunning fist DC thanks to high wisdom.

There are many 12/6/2 builds too, where people will usually have the 1st 2 prestige enhancement tiers from 1 class, one 1st tier PrE from the other class then the other 2 levels will be a splash for other benefits.. 12ranger/6fighter/2monk is a popular one for 2weapon melees since you can get tempest2 from ranger plus some nice spells, extra feats & 1st tier kensai from the fighter & a couple more bonus feats from the monk levels.

Multiclass builds can be awesomely effective when built well & played to their strengths - the main thing is to remember to try not to do too much - in general, i'd say aim for a primary focus to be particularly good at, then a secondary "is also effective at" with any other capabilities you get as an "incidentally can also do, but not really a focus".

[IgorHackNSlasher]

If you posted some info on your character someone might be able to help you out a bit better and possibly give you some direction. A good multi class needs to be planned out in advance, not done on a whim.

[stille_nacht]

simply put, if you multiclassed together two classes that are not mutually beneficial, then no, you wont bring more to a party than a pure class, (sometimes you'll even do worse solo as you progress to higher levels).

however, if you multiclassed together classes that are mutually beneficial (ex: 2 rog /18 wiz for insighftul reflexes evasion, 12 fighter/6 barbarian/2 rog for kensai II frenzied berzerker, sneak-attack damage), then you will in many cases perform better than the pure class. (though i prefer pure wiz, being a minmax-y sort :P)

[Arnhelm]

For myself, I keep my chars pure even for solo play. Multi is too much work for a lazy old man like me. :)

[Bodic]

other good examples

16/2/2 Bard/Ftr/Rog ( I use 17/1/2)
13/7 Rog/Mnk

bad examples:
10/10 or any mix of Arcane and Divine.
1 lvl of sorc used to double item SPos not any more the double is now only based on Sorc/FvS lvls.

In fact any burst of a casting class is not a great Idea. If you want that take UMD or Helf Dilly.

[Schmoe]

I'm beginning to think that my multi-class toons are great for solo play and duo parties but I'm finding it harder and harder to find groups to join when the toon gets to lev 8. The toon just doesn't add as much to the group as a single-class character.
Have other players experienced this situation and, if so, what advice can you offer?

Multi-class characters can be just as effective as single class characters. Sometimes they can be more effective.

The key is to define the character's role. If you try to do everything, you won't be good at anything. It is especially difficult to multi-class with the traditional spell-casting classes, such as wizard, cleric, and sorcerer. Multi-classing is also something I wouldn't recommend for someone's first character. As you've probably noticed, a multi-classed character has the potential to be very disappointing if you haven't planned it correctly. You should make sure you have a solid understanding of what the classes have to offer and how the different tradeoffs will affect your character before you decide to multi-class.

The build forums have some great multi-class builds. If you want to learn more about various multi-class combinations, read some of the existing threads. You'll learn a ton. If you want advice on a particular mix of class roles, or a particular mix of classes, feel free to start a thread to ask for advice. There are a lot of helpful people on the forums who would be more than happy to share their experiences.

[JasonJi72]

If you step away from the main road, you will encounter a rougher ride.

Yes, many multiclass builds are fun and viable.

I do not think splash builds should be thought of as multiclass builds.

I was working on a 'strange' multiclass build before I had connection issues. My goal was to simply get a ranger past life, while making an 'outside the box' character.

My build is an Arcane Archer Dual Kopesh trapmonkey self buffer. 11 ranger, 8 wizard, 1 rogue.

11 ranger gives most of the archery and 2wf feats I need. 8 wizard gives some very nice buffs with decent durations, and I don't have to switch to a wand or use a clickie. The trap skills are for soloing, and making it easier to get into groups.

I get accepted as a last resort trapper fill (unless I have run with them before), and they usually still try to find a rogue even though I can handle the traps. I pass out buffs, actually cast haste, am always at the top of the kill count, and very survivable and self sufficient. Yes, I know I need to use divine power clickies. I have more than enough of them. The hardest part is when you have a wizard icon, but you are built as a melee/archery ranger.

My build really is an elven f/mu flavor build, and I accept that. I know it is not the most uber, but I enjoy playing it. Isn't that what it's all about?

The funny thing is, that most of the people who complain about how easy the game has become are the same ones who will tell you that if you do not have the most optimal build with X, Y, and Z gear, then there is no way you are getting into their raid group. Oh, and you have to know it like the back of your hand too.

My main is a 12 Bard, 6 ranger, 2 rogue.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

it depends.

There are many useful multi-class builds that work wel in groups at (current) end game.

But....
Turbine keeps adding more and more reasons to stay pure. So you have to be careful with multi-classing, and there is no guarantee that they will not change the game somehow and make you regret it.

But... we have GRs and LRs now... up to +5.
I spent a ton of TP and changed a lvl 15 Ftr into a lvl 15 Rgr... So if you want to thow money at the problem, you can change any char eventually.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

My build is an Arcane Archer Dual Kopesh trapmonkey self buffer. 11 ranger, 8 wizard, 1 rogue.


:)

[TheDjinnFor]

Multiclass builds are neither better nor worse than pure builds. Ideally, you would think the point of multiclassing is to give up levels in classes that you don't need or want in exchange what you think is more beneficial levels in another class. Typically, however, this is not the case for new players, because they don't understand that when they add a level in a second class they delay their advancement in their main class even as the content gets tougher, and they forever lock themselves out of level 20 (or level 19, or 18, and so on) in their main class.

The second point above largely deals with end game and thus is the primary point of contention for most players. Splits like 10 wizard/10 cleric basically bring as much power as a pair of level 10s would (one wizard, one cleric), but with half the casting speed, and less overall hp and sp. Try and bring two level 10s into a level 20 quest and see how successful that is, and you'll understand what I mean when I say the above split is pretty useless as a caster.

The first point above is often overlooked, but important for the original topic of discussion. A prime example is 17cleric/2 monk/1 fighter; this is a fairly strong melee divine build at cap when built and played right, but problems with leveling may arise when you take all of the melee classes first. You'll notice that if you try to play it as you would a cleric for most levels (buffing, some offense spells, healing, and some melee) you'll have trouble. Say, for example, you join the crucible on hard at level 13 that says "Need Healer"; you might regret it once you realize that a 10 cleric/2 monk/1 fighter doesn't have the Heal spell... so unless your allies can take care of themselves or you can solo it as a melee, you'll find the difficulty is a lot higher than if you were a level 13 cleric.

To make a proper multiclass build that won't be a chore to level and will be a potent end-game class, you'll need a good understanding of the entire game; you will want to know the kinds of challenges you'll face each level so you can be prepared for them, and you'll also want to know what each class gives and loses at each level and how this will affect its viability. Or, you can post want you want and what your goals are with a particular toon and ask those with experience to give you a hand and help you understand whether your expectations are realistic and how to achieve those goals with a good build. In your case, more specifics are needed.

Multi-classing is certainly a powerful tool but requires a certain amount of expertise to wield...

[Galeria]

I looooove my multi-classes. I really do. But if you are starting out, it's a good idea to run a single class while you learn how things work. Or a few different single classes.

One of the keys to multi-classing (IMHO) is knowing what it is you are trying to do AND what you are giving up by adding that. There's always a trade off.

Being familiar with feats and enhancements is really key to making an effective multi-classer and spending some time on DDOwiki reviewing what each class gets at which level can be the difference between a truly gimped character and an effective multi-purpose toon.

When I started playing, my husband told me to use the character planner to plan out what I wanted to build but I'll be honest with you- without the knowledge of prestige classes, enhancements and feats it was just an exercise in making sure I didn't end up with half-skill points. Because I didn't know what I was doing.

What stacks with what, what works with what are the real "tricks" to making an effective MC. Look at shared stats (Rogue/Wiz makes an excellent mix because of the Intelligence overlap, for example) and shared skills (Concentration helps both casters and monks) and anything else that overlaps and figure out how to use that to your advantage.

A first-life multiclass is probably not going to be very effective in Epic content, but if you are having a good time playing it, run Shroud til you get your GS and start over at 1.

[JasonJi72]

Multiclass builds require much more thought and planning to play. Make sure you know what you are are gaining, and what you are losing. Learn to play to your strengths, and know your weaknesses.

Above all else... have fun with it! :)

[EpiKagEMO]

I like what everyone says about the multiclasses above.
What tends to happen

Battle caster tanks
-easily replaced by real tanks at higher levels
-is forced to haste the party and pike
-turns to support
-oh.. a tank for vod... great we need you! 1 cleric and arcane healing himself?

Healing+battle
-forced to heal instead of fighting.
-turns to support

DPS spec multies
-gets better dps at lvl 20.
12/6/2s i think.

What tends to happen to me
-We wiped... what if we had a "pure" class instead of me, the multiclass? i feel totally useless... 5% of time
-*declined* .....well F*** you! your going to wipe! 5% of time
-wahahaha save! 90% of time
-this squishy wf caster will tank better than you fighter and barb :D 99% of time

Unless you can prove yourself as a great asset battle caster and rush tank w/o having trouble keeping hp bar high/getting top kills while buffing party w/ haste, you'll probably get some good spread rep. really depends on what kind of party combo you have :3

last words
-know what you bring to the table.
-know your limitations
-go enter a quest and see how long you'll last then join (jk)
-multies are REALLY fun!
-not alot of people like multies cuz they think pures are definetly better. well they havent seen the real sturdy built ones >:D
or... they havnt checked the forums! :3
-Wish you luck. Khybers usually nicer on multies i believe.

Hopefully this wall of text helped you understand a little :/

[Alex301]

Multi-classing has a lot to offer but most don't really come together until they're near cap. They allow for much more versatility than a pure build while retaining a lot of the key features of one.

The blitz build for example offers the speed of a barbarian, higher health than a fighter as well as evasion and UMD from rogue. It's not necessarily better dps than a pure fighter or barbarian but it is roughly on par with them while offering many things the pure builds simply can't offer.

Whether multi-classing is better than pure builds really depends on your goals for the build. Both have their merits and i wouldn't say one is better than the other, they just offer different things. Poorly built and played and they will both add very little, although this is more easily done with multi-classing, but if played and built well they are both viable and can perform equally well.

[Therigar]

Have other players experienced this situation and, if so, what advice can you offer?

As you can tell, there are many different perspectives.

Here is my take on multiclasses.

If you are a player who intends to reach L20 and stay there for a long time -- running high-level quests and epics -- then you are best off with a pure class or well accepted multiclass. There are several commonly accepted multiclasses mentioned in the other posts in this thread.

OTOH, if you are a player who intends to reach L20 and quickly reincarnate then you are best off with a multiclass that gives you a lot of immediately useful skills or abilities even if those will be near useless on high level content.

The reason for my thinking is this....

If you are planning to stick around for a long time at L20 then you need to fit into the expectations of players running high-level and epic content. You need a build that is designed to deal with elite L20+ quests and raids. This means you are giving up almost everything to fit into a relatively narrow role at end game. The reward is that you are very, very good at that role and this helps the entire group to be successful.

If you are planning to jump right into a new character then the focus is on the journey to L20. This may involve lots of PuGs or soloing and almost always is limited to normal and hard content once you get to Reaver's and Vale. You don't need much elite content there for the XP to hit L20. What you do need is a character that has a lot of tricks up its sleeve -- one that can self-heal in a pinch, solo in a pinch, UMD or raise dead in a pinch, etc. All the while it also needs to be able to do its main job reasonably well -- but it doesn't need the single-mindedness of purpose that the other type of build has. That is because you never know for sure what you might need to be able to do.

In the first case this is easiest done by having a narrow focus and a pure or almost pure character. But, in the second case it is easiest done with a multiclass that splashes in enough of one or two other classes to make sure the job always gets done. It might get done sloppily, but it gets done.

Anyway, I expect others will have contrary views -- but that is how I see it.

[whomhead]

One other thing to keep in mind is that many multi-class builds will necessarily take longer to reach their full potential as compared to pure builds. This difference can be especially apparent in the mid-levels (the OP says they are level 8), where other characters have unlocked the first tier PrE and/or have access to better spells and abilities. This will be true even of exceedingly well-planned and powerful multi-class builds. Once you get to the end game (levels 16-20) you should see a good character really start to come into its own, power wise, and you will hopefully be able to contribute better.

Also note that some multi-classes can look very strange in the early levels, especially so with tri-class builds, thus making group leaders reluctant to take on an unknown member with a "weird" split. For example, "4 bard, 2 fighter, 2 bard... what the heck is this noob doing???" While at 20 it is a (relatively) solid and recognizable 16/2/2 build.

[Lodestone99]

Know what you are doing. If you are going to play some weird rogue/cleric/sorc variation have a **** good reason for doing so (and no i dont mean because you think its cool) and make sure that you can perform as well at your chosen role as a straight build while bringing something else to the table. A bad multiclass (like the one above who i played an adventure with recently) doesnt have a good grasp of any of the classes they are playing and for example couldnt see any danger, had pitiful reflex saves, couldnt find trap boxes or disarm them and so tried to run through traps and survive (somehow) by healing himself.

A good multiclass build has a focus in mind but also attempts to fill the roles of the classes it has. Dips into rogue and monk levels happen a lot because of they shore up one dimensional builds by offering skills/evasion/saves/ac bonuses to classes that lack them. Prestige enhancements are some of the best reasons to multiclass but again the focus should be on what you want the character to do. For example my 13/6/1 rogue/barbarian/fighter build was built as a dps build (warforged power attks, acrobat speed increase, sneak attack and frenzy can be a pretty good beating) but because he also had rogue levels primarily I made sure that he was always geared properly to be an effective thief. Will he be good as a rogue at epics? Hell no! But the end goal was dps not being an effective thief. Proper gear helps a lot and I would definetly recommend 32pt build as they can turn a lame multiclass into something awesome or at least smooth out potential rough edges - unless you for some reason have a slew of +2 or +3 tomes lying around. But thats just my opinion and experience, I'm sure there is more uber out there.

[hakoist]

My main is a 12ftr/6rgr/2rog
kensei manyshot umd
sprint boost,wand,scroll
trap skill
yay love it

alter is 16bard/2ftr/2bbn
with better gear,it has more HP than my ftr with gs,madstones,bbn rage
viable dps
WC is strange, WC need BBN RAGE!!
ultimate buffer except resistance arrh
scroll use is great

currently leveling a pure monk and the goal is 12ftr/8monk :S

Have fun multiclassing:)

[ThePrincipal]

Go big --- 5 classes!

do a 12fighter/6pally/2rogue with Helf racial Arcane Archer (counts as ranger) and Monk Dilly!

Monk AC and Healing Amp
AA for slayer + manshot
rogue for umd, sneak attk, evasion
pally for saves, smites, divine sacrifice, mental toughness & sp for AA
fighter for kensei, haste boost IV and enough feats to make this work on paper

[sdrocky]

Ive splashed a fighter with a rogue. Mainly for sneaking, bluffing and sneak attack. I like to hunt. At the moment its 3rd ftr/1st rogue. I intend to splash a level of rogue ever 4 fighter. Should end up with 16th ftr/4th rogue. Im running a pure fighter up at the same time and am trying to keep them at about the same rank.

Rogue gives me benifits such as faster sneaking and rogue sneak attack bonus's. And at lower levels i can pick locks and disable traps. It also,if you splash rogue first, gives you way more points to spend on skills at char creation.

Lets see how it goes and who's the better hunter.

Only time and experience will tell.

[r3dl4nce]

Should end up with 16th ftr/4th rogue.No no no. That's very bad.
If you want rogue just to disable traps/open lock, 1 level is more than sufficient. If you want a useful character who can dps and disable traps, you could go 12 fighter (KensaiII - power surge is super!) / 7 rogue / 1 barbarian. You get power surge, snieak attack from rogue levels and some rage for boss fights... Or even better, blitz build 12fighter/6barbarian/2rogue

[hakoist]

Go big --- 5 classes!

do a 12fighter/6pally/2rogue with Helf racial Arcane Archer (counts as ranger) and Monk Dilly!

Monk AC and Healing Amp
AA for slayer + manshot
rogue for umd, sneak attk, evasion
pally for saves, smites, divine sacrifice, mental toughness & sp for AA
fighter for kensei, haste boost IV and enough feats to make this work on paper

you wont have enough feat for melee
the Helf angels dont have enough feat even rgr grant a lot of needed feat

[santiago66]

Thanks for all the helpful replies. I should have said at the start that I am a newish player and have not had a character reach lev 20 yet. The toon I'm finding a bit of a spare part is Wiz 5, Rog 3 at the moment. I like playing the character but in a tough quest with a group of lev 8-10 single classes, she's a bit of a liability.

Perhaps I'll concentrate on playing my single class toons to a much higher level and come back to the multi once I understand the way the game pans out better.

I've had a go with the character planner but as someone said, without good knowledge of the enhancements and what is most important at high level it's a bit of a pointless exercise.

[ThePrincipal]

you wont have enough feat for melee
the Helf angels dont have enough feat even rgr grant a lot of needed feat

sounds like a challenge

you'll get access to AA because pally can take Mental Toughness. Anything else you do to improved ranged, thf, or twf is up to you. Fighter 12 gives you 7 bonus feats. If you need more, take 2 monk and rogue dilly. Either way it's a monster build excellent for solo and it's 5 classes :)

EDIT:
7 base, 7 fighter bonus, 2 monk bonus = 16 feats. this will get ur kensei 2 with khopesh specialization, AA, and Rogue Dilly.

Khopesh
Weapon Focus: Slashing
Weapon Focus: Ranged
Weapon Specialization
TWF
ITWF
GTWF
Power Attk
Mental Toughness
Point Blank
Rapid Shot
Manyshot
Precise Shot
Improved Precise Shot
Rogue Dilly
Toughness

[Phidius]

...
Perhaps I'll concentrate on playing my single class toons to a much higher level and come back to the multi once I understand the way the game pans out better.
...

Highly recommended. My first was a halfling sorc named Phidius Ent. :)

[flaggson]

Id have to say this is smart.... You learn a lot just going through it .... And suddenly things start clicking together in your head... At this point yer not goin into multiclassing blind but instead with eyes wide open.



.

Perhaps I'll concentrate on playing my single class toons to a much higher level and come back to the multi once I understand the way the game pans out better.

[ThePrincipal]

While it requires more planning to multiclass, mixing melee classes is pretty fool proof. Same as with single class, pick your fighting style and any prestidge requirement feats. make sure you plan the order in which to take your classes as you level up and you're golden.

[Firesmall_at]

No Cleric with a Fighter splash on here.... R u kidding me!

And don't listen to the 2 weapon fighting is better than 2 handed fighting. Only in a perfect world with super fast computers and no lag. It is much easier to hit and do splash damage with a longer weapon. 2 handed builds are easier to build and equip too.

__________________________

Awe heck here he is. I didn't reduce wisdom though and still took the fighter lvls, but it is 32pt build. Bought a +2 Wisdom tome on sale.

28Pt.
STR15, CON13, CHR13 (one level up for 14) and take DM1 for Burst Preq on this build. The other Burst Preq are not that great.
[Take STR13, CON13 and CHR15. Level up 1 in CHR for 16 and DM2. But like I said STR is better IMHO.]
With 2HW STR is 1.5X with DMG.

With these stats you can level up in WIS or STR. I went Wisdom even with the 2 fighter levels in this build. Spell focus feats help with wisdom DC cks to saves against your fav spells. Spell pen feat is situational and not used as often.


No such thing as a Battlecleric. Just a poorly played Cleric that does not 1-Offensive Cast/Crowd Control, 2-Heal, and 3-Melee.... in that order ;)





Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.9.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

T3
Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
(2 Fighter \ 18 Cleric)
Hit Points: 306
Spell Points: 1249
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 17
Reflex: 5
Will: 18

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 15 16
Dexterity 8 8
Constitution 15 16
Intelligence 8 8
Wisdom 16 24
Charisma 14 14

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 1 7.5
Bluff 2 2
Concentration 6 25.5
Diplomacy 2 2
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle 2 2
Heal 3 9
Hide -1 -1
Intimidate 2 2
Jump 2 3
Listen 3 7
Move Silently -1 -1
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a
Repair -1 -1
Search -1 -1
Spot 3 7
Swim 2 3
Tumble 1 1
Use Magic Device n/a n/a

Level 1 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell
Feat: (Human Bonus) Toughness
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic I
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot I


Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I


Level 3 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Spell
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom I
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery I


Level 4 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Improved Heal I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life I


Level 5 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Constitution I
Enhancement: Improved Heal II
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic II


Level 6 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot II
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Might I
Enhancement: Cleric Extra Turning I
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Turning I


Level 7 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Radiant Servant I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II


Level 8 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Smiting I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic III


Level 9 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom II


Level 10 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host


Level 11 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic IV


Level 12 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Focus: Evocation
Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty


Level 13 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Radiant Servant II
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Wisdom I


Level 14 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Cleric Smiting II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I


Level 15 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Heighten Spell
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Empower Healing I
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery II


Level 16 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III


Level 17 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Smiting III
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Spell Penetration I


Level 18 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Focus: Evocation
Enhancement: Cleric Smiting IV


Level 19 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Spell Penetration II


Level 20 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Cleric Extra Turning II





I just don't think you will ever get the STR up to melee good no matter what you do because the enhancments are not there to melee. Just a couple of feats llike power attack and imp critical for moderate STR.

You see melee builds get enhancements to power attack, and critical multipliers. Ie. my Pally has an extra 2X to his critical smites. And a Borc gets Orc power attack and Barbarien power attack stacked plus rages.

However, the 2 FTR lvls or some go 2 monk is worth it if you want to do it. It is a lot of fun to play if you play it right and don't think you are a "Battlecleric." No such thing.

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No such thing as a Battlecleric. Just a poorly played Cleric that does not 1-Offensive Cast/Crowd Control, 2-Heal, and 3-Melee.... in that order ;)

[Thrudh]

My build is an Arcane Archer Dual Kopesh trapmonkey self buffer. 11 ranger, 8 wizard, 1 rogue.

You make me happy... :)

When the cap was 16, my favorite character for a long time was a 11/5 Ranger/wizard. When the cap was raised to 20, I got him to 12/7/1 ranger/wizard/rogue...

Very fun character... Extremely self-sufficient.

But, after a while, you collect magic items that emulate all your spells (even lasting longer), so you realize there's not as much point to the wizard levels.

But I agree that a ranger/wizard is a fun build. (You don't get a whole lot of ranger bonuses for the levels past level 12, so trading those levels for some spells or some feats is a good deal)

[JasonJi72]

Thanks Thrudh.

Yeah, I know you can replace many spells with clickies later, but I get to use them throughout his carreer.

Like you said, I don't loose much by taking wizard levels, and it actually gives me more SP than I would have as a Ranger (I think).

My goal was to make a fun to play flavor character anyway. I plan on TRing it to add ranger lives to a 12bard / 6ranger / 2 rogue build. I figured I'd get the past lives I want with a fresh character so I could still play my capped multi-bard lol.

Stoneskin, displacement, haste, fireshield, firewall, and start killing with either kopeshes or a bow. :)

I really wish they would implement bladesingers for elves and drow. Here's to wishing! *cheers*

I just hope my next ranger life build will be even crazier! *Laughs like a mad scientist*

[Entelech]

I think a big part of your "Multiclasses have trouble getting groups" perception is a question of skewed sampling.

Specifically, you're joining PUG's. That's the real issue.

The PUG population has a higher concentration of...well...people who don't have regular groups. Sometimes this is because they're new, sometimes this is personal choice or RL issues...and sometimes it's because they're dumber than a sackful of hammers and nobody will group with them twice.

Even Hjealmee, the 6-Int Barbarian can usually figure out what a pure class is supposed to do in a PUG:

Cleric -- Heal me until you run out of SP, potions, scrolls, and money.
Wizard -- Haste me, and cast Repair if I am a Warforged.
Sorcerer -- Haste me and use Repair/Reconstruct scrolls if I am Warforged.
Rogue -- Hide in the back and disarm traps after I run through them.
Favored Soul -- Same as nannybot Cleric...
Fighter -- Roll his eyes while I showboat and brag about how uber I am...

You get the idea.

Teaming up with a Multiclass build requires (*gasp*) communication. It's something Hjealmee is terrified of, and avoids like the plague. Sometimes Hjealmee even learns to fake a thick foreign accent to avoid it.

Is it any wonder then, that players like Hjealmee fear and despise multiclassed characters...especially when they design, build and play them themselves?