RIFLEMAN: Helf Art-illery

[Stillwaters]

Half Elf Rifleman, Artillery 8Rogue/6Ftr/6Art
AA/Mechanic/Kensai/BattleEngineer
WHY Kensai and Arcane archer (6FTR) over Deepwoodsniper (6RGR):
ranger cannot stack AA and fighter can

Concept: All ranged burst toon that occasionally uses AA imbued bows with manyshot, and RXHvy/runearm with occasional Fusillade bonus. Moderate self and party buffs/heals. And a Pet to boot!
This build maximises the usage of heavy repeaters and also action boosts.

BOOSTS: You will have 7 fusillade, 7 human versatility damage boost (25%),7 rogue haste boost (25%), 7 artificer damage boost (15%) combined with manyshot for over 10.75 mins of FULL AUTO (see breakdown on page 2). ofc manyshot never wears out, it just goes on a long timer :P.

NOT recommended for <36 point builds but you can drop 1 INT and 1 STR and make do...

Base STATS (36-point/completionist)
Str: 28(+ 9) 10 +2 completionist, +2 tome, +6 item, +1 comp, +3 Abashai, +2 Rage, +2 Ship
Dex: 34(+12) 17 +2 completionist, +2 tome, +7 item, +2 insight, +1 LotD (+1 ex dex when using longbow), +2 Ship
Con: 32(+11) 13 +2 completionist, +2 tome, +7 item, +1 comp, +2 insight, +1 LotD, +2 Rage, +2 Ship
Int: 40(+15) 18 +2 completionist, +2 tome, +6 item, +2 insight, +2 enhancements, +1 LotD, +5 LEVELS, +2 Ship
Wis: 22(+ 6) 8 +2 completionist, +2 tome, +6 item, +1 comp, +1 LotD, +2 Ship
Cha: 24(+ 7) 8 +2 completionist, +2 tome, +7 item, +2 insight, +1 LotD, +2 Ship
+2 tome required for DEX by lvl 14, others are gravy.

Level Progression
bab00 1 Arty1
bab00 2 Rogue1
bab01 3 Fighter1*
bab02 4 Arty2
bab03 5 Arty3 (2nd lvl infusion to make weps use INT to hit)
bab04 6 Arty4*
bab04 7 Arty5
bab05 8 Arty6 (Engineer- Fusillade, 2nd lvl infusion to make weps use INT to damage)
bab06 9 Fighter2* (AA)
bab07 10 Rogue2 (Evasion)
---------------
bab08 11 Fighter3
bab09 12 Fighter4*
bab10 13 Fighter5
bab11 14 Fighter6* (Kensai-RXHvy)
bab12 15 Rogue3
bab13 16 Rogue4 (Uncanny Dodge)
bab13 17 Rogue5
bab14 18 Rogue6 (Mech to STACK +INT to damage with infusion to hit)
bab15 19 Rogue7
bab16 20 Rogue8 (AA slaying arrows, Imp Uncanny Dodge)

Feat Progression *Bonus feats in brackets
1 Point Blank Shot (Rapid Reload) (EWP: RXHvy, RXLight, GtXbow) (Dilly Ranger ~swap for Dilly Pally @15)
3 Rapid Shot, (Toughness)
5 Weapon focus Ranged
6 Precise Shot (Construct essence)
9 Precision (ManyShot)
10 (Evasion)
12 (Wep Specialization ranged) Imp Crit Ranged
14 (Imp Precise shot)
15 Bow Strength
18 Completionist (or Quickdraw/Skill focus UMD/Toughness)

Skills
ALL Trapskills, UMD, you should have a ton of room here to play with I like Bluff/Tumble for repeater builds


ENHANCEMENTS (80)
PRE -Req 51/80
(14) AA
4 AA I
1 Imbue force arrow
1 AA +2 arrow
1 Imbue Acid arrow
1 AA +3 arrow
1 Imbue Explosive arrow
1 AA +4 arrow
1 Imbue Forceburst arrow
1 Imbue Terror arrow
1 AA +5 arrow
1 Imbue Slaying arrow

(15) Mech
4 Mech I
3 Skill boost II
3 Improved DD II
3 Improved OL II
1 Improved trap sense I
1 Improved trap lore I

(11) Kensai
4 Kensai I
3 Fighter attack boost II
3 Fighter crit accuracy II
1 Kensai wep mastery

(11) Battle engineer
4 Engineer
3 Damage boost
2 Crossbow Damage
2 Crossbow attack

Nice stuff 29/80 *
6 Rog Haste boost III
6 SA Training III
10 Human Versatility IV- Damage/Skills/saves whats not to love?
2 Human adapt INT
2 Arty INT +1
3 Imp Dilly Rngr II (swap out @15 for Helf Toughness I/II)

Hitpoints
551 = 20 (heroic), 144 (classlevels), 10 (draconic) 200 (con), 45 (greensteel), 22 (toughness feat), 20 (toughness item), 20 (toughness enh), 30 (GFL), 20 (ship), 20 (rage). (+10-30 passive past life barb)

Evasion
34 = 10 (levels), 11 (DEX), 5 (resist), 2 (luck), 1 (ship), 4 (GHero), 1(kensai vs magic)
(+2 GtrParry item) (4 uncanny dodge boost if fixed) 6(past life rogue vs traps) = 42 vs spell 46 vs traps if needed

Imp uncanny dodge
50% dodge 20 secs/2min, passive bonus dodge 3%


Gear:
Head :EHelm of Frost: Blind immune slotted (+7 CHA, Resist cold 30, 3*Polar ray, 1/3 abashai)
Goggles :GreensteelHP Smoke: (45HP, +6 Dex skills, 2*Displace, Permablur)
Trinket :Litany: (+1 profane to all stats to hit and damage, 3*spell costs 50% for 6 sec)
Neck :EGuile: Disease immunity slotted (+20 Bluff/Diplo, Improved deception, Ghostly, +1 Cha skills)
Cloak :EEnvenomed: Toughness (+7 CON, +5 Resist, GTR poison guard 2/3 abashai)
Body :EFrozen tunic: Hvy Fort, +1 CON slotted (+8 armour, Freezing ice, Fire Shield COLD, plus unused spell enhancers)
Arms :Wind Howler Bracers: (+2Atk, +1Dmg, 10d6Shock on Vorpal Hit)
Hands :Epic Spectral Gloves: Poison Immunity slotted (Ethereal,+7Dex, +4Atk)
Belt :ELion headed: GFL Slotted, (+6 STR/CON, Immune fear, Roar)
Boots :ECorrosion: Good luck, +1 WIS slotted (Sup CorrosionVI, Sup NullVI, Resist acid 30, Disint guard, 3/3 abashai)
Quiver :Alacrity: (30%striding, Ranged alacrity 10%)
Ring1 :Rahkir's: +6INT, +1 INT (+2 CON)
Ring2 :Kyoshos/Morganas: +6 WIS, +1 STR (+2 DEX)

Weapons: *enhancement/prestige bonuses included*
Runearm :Tovens Hammer: +2 INT, Transform Kinetic (LitII weps, Ex Fort 10%, SUP PotencyVI, ElecIV-2d8elec)
(use Int to damage, Int to hit)
Wep ESilver Slinger :+11, 2d10, 19-20/x2: +7 slotted (Silver, Holy Burst, Weaken undead, Undead bane, Blunt ammo)
Wep EDoublecross :+10, 2d8, 19/20/x2: DR crystal slotted (Enervation, Armor pierce 10%, Crippling, Poisonburst, Nightshade venom)
Wep EHellfire :+10, 2d12, 19-20/x2: DR crystal slotted (Flaming Burst, Incineration, Precise Shot, Meteor Swarm 3/3)
(use Int to damage, Dex to hit)
Wep EThornlord :+10, 2d8+4, 19-20/x3: DR crystal, +1 ex Dex slotted
Wep EEarth longbow:+8, 2d8, 20/x3: Dr Crystal, +1 ex DEX slotted (Gtr Acid arrow, Gtr stone prison, Imp destruction, Disintegration, Acid burst, 30 acid resist)

Swap in:
Neck :Amrath(kensai/stalwart): lesser action boost enhancement necklace (now that taking them off only reduces your max)
Trinket :Epic Spyglass: <blue> (+2Int, +3UMD {Enhancement}, +20 Spot & Search, True Seeing)
Belt :ESpare handT2: <colorless> (OL/DD =15, +3 UMD, Riposte, Ex combat mastery +5)
Goggles :GreensteelSP tripPOS: (150SP, WizVI, +6 Cha skills, 1*Raise, Disruption guard)


So... we have:
(RXHvy),+15(INT),+2d8elec + litII(Runearm),+(SA4d6+17), +1d6(Element infusion), +(Elemental/holy bolt), at Hasted, Endless Fusillade speed/versatile damage boostIV (25% damage) boost for our main gun. With some low damage runarm fire.

(Longbow), +9(STR), +(Slaying arrows), +(SA4d6+17), +1d6(Element infusion), at Hasted, Manyshot (4) speed with hasteboostIII (perhaps with versatile damage boost IV) or damage boost II for additional burst dps.

Remember you will be using INT to hit (after mechI xbow gets BOTH)... use INT to damage for a +6 damage for -3 to hit with longbow at cap.

Double base damage within Sneak attack range for both weapons, % for frozen tunic to grant helpless damage, plus haste and damage boosts for manyshot and fusillade).

EDIT: changed progression to get some things earlier (was working off arty having lesser BAB progression)
EDIT: New packs = new gear
EDIT: New update = highlighted imp uncanny dodge build.
Watch this space for adjustments as we learn more

[-Zephyr-]

7/7/6 at cap ? Meh.
From what we saw the artificer is like the bard, the more levels, the better his buffs.
The rune arms do scale with artificer levels, you'll end with mediocre damage there.

I'm not even sure why you have so many artificer levels, you don't have any rooms for his specific enhancements... You should go 12 rogue / 6 fighter / 2 artificer, gains improved evasion, loses lvl 2 art spells but it's not like they'll be that great at lvl 20... Better have a much-less-deeply-splashed or even pure artificer cover those.

[Stillwaters]

7/7/6 at cap ? Meh.
From what we saw the artificer is like the bard, the more levels, the better his buffs.
The rune arms do scale with artificer levels, you'll end with mediocre damage there.

I'm not even sure why you have so many artificer levels, you don't have any rooms for his specific enhancements... You should go 12 rogue / 6 fighter / 2 artificer, gains improved evasion, loses lvl 2 art spells but it's not like they'll be that great at lvl 20... Better have a much-less-deeply-splashed or even pure artificer cover those.

As we haven't seen the enhancements yet for ARTY it is hard to judge their value, enhancements are a baseline and there is plenty that could be reduced to make room for good ARTY6 Enhancements.

13 rogue over 7 rogue nets imp evasion, opportunist, and +3d6 sneak attack (avg 10.5 SITUATIONAL damage), 6 arty gives us the spell INSIGHTFUL DAMAGE (which cannot be scrolled onto a xbow), which alone adds +10 ALWAYS damage on a 30 INT build (and scales upward).

Runearm damage FOR THE BLASTS scale with ARTY levels, but this build most likely wont use the blasts, it scalps the additional bonus damage it adds the the held weapon, and also the craftable enhancements like Blindness Immunity RunearmX of Ranged alacrity - freeing up more slots.

IMHO - its a hard call whether to drop the AA/Bow side completely to have more sneak damage and imp evasion on a 13 rogue/7 ARTY build (less haste boosts but stronger ones).
As i noted above its a THEORETICAL BUILD - as we receive more info on arty to go on, this will change accordingly.

EDIT: ok from Lamma tests - we definitely WILL be using the small runearm blasts to add DPS as it doesn't slow down main attack speed in the slightest.
Insightful damage is out tho (doesn't stack as Eladrin said it would) :( So glad i'm keeping the multi-shot AA bow now.

[Warganom]

Has it been confirmed that you can't scroll Insightful Damage onto a crossbow?..

[Stillwaters]

Has it been confirmed that you can't scroll Insightful Damage onto a crossbow?..

It makes sense - Xbow equips to MAIN hand (rune arm equips to offhand but is an exception)... Scrolls likewise equip to main hand... its like a failsafe so non Arty UMD builds cannot boost xbows and 2handed weps.. (its also non confirmed but LIKELY that you can equip a scroll and boost a wep held in the OFF-hand!)

[Failedlegend]

13 rogue/7 ARTY build

Unless 7 Arty has a big boost or good enhancements I'd go 13Rogue/6Arty than 1 of whatever...personally I'd go monk with 10-14 starting Wis for a decent AC but otherwise 1 Fighter would prob work best than just 18 dex/int (17 dex for non-dex races) rest con and your good.

ie.

Halfling

Dex 18
Con 14
Int 16
Wis 14

Warforged (Lotsa construct buffs from arty)

Dex 17 (16)
Con 14 (16)
Int 16 (16)
Wis 11 (12)

Human or Half-Elf

Dex 17 (16)
Con 13 (14)
Int 16 (16)
Wis 12 (14)

Note: The Bracketed Stats are assuming access to +3 Dex tome.

[Stillwaters]

Changed a few things once I realised ARTY had a 3/4 BAB progression

[Stillwaters]

Testing on live and this this is off the hook - the free pet gets its own enhancement (sneak attack) tree so as long as you can keep it alive it adds a bit more DPS, it levels up with your ARTY levels so wont be great endgame but is SOOOoooooooooo CUTE!

Pet can attack mobs and open doors for you to maintain stealth aspect and has a hireling style bar for picking up soulstones etc.

Has a docent slot as well as a crafted weapon module slot, and is affected by augment summon - not good enough to waste a feat on in my own build but a great lil all-round bada$$ in his own right at low-mid tier levelling.

Should be worth mentioning it sprays ACID and FIRE, NOT GREASE!! and turns itself into a box for easy carrying (lol) when you dismiss it

[Failedlegend]

Edit: Oops wrong tab meant to put this in repeater rogues unite...moved now.

[rimble]

I don't see how anyone can manage swapping ammo all the time with these types of builds...I've always thought they're neat, but in practice, unplayable.

[Failedlegend]

I don't see how anyone can manage swapping ammo all the time with these types of builds...I've always thought they're neat, but in practice, unplayable.

On my Elven Kensai2/Mech1/AA this is how I do it

Just stick these two right next to each other to make for easy switching you just have to keep am eye on manyshot.

Xbow - Main Bolt Stack - Secondary Bolt Stack - A few other less used RXBows/bolts

Bow- Main Arrow Stack- Power Surge - Manyshot - Secondary Stack - Imbues

The best part is now if you use up a stack of bolts/arrows it automatically grabs the next stack in your inventory and puts it in the same hotbar and if you run out completely its stays in the hotbar but is greyed out

Now if only they'd fix quivers so I can switch quivers instead of bolt stacks (quivers currently just open if you hotbar them...IOW pointless)

[xberto]

With Arty crossbow damage enhancments and changes to PBS, im thinking a Battle Eng, Mech, Deepwood - Art 7/ Rog 7/ Rgr 6 is the way to go.

[Failedlegend]

Just a little news...Extend doesn't effect Arty spells.

Correction: I haven't tested this myself but it seems Metas just aren't working on arty spells.

[PestWulf]

With Arty crossbow damage enhancments and changes to PBS, im thinking a Battle Eng, Mech, Deepwood - Art 7/ Rog 7/ Rgr 6 is the way to go.


That's the conclusion I came too as well. Now the PBS not only increases your sneak range by 10, but increases the base damage by double with that 10 extra range as well. That's a pretty big dps increase when you are looking at a greensteel heavy suddenly being 4d8(x3) plus double INT damage, likely a minimum of 8 for these builds, so 16(x3).

I definitely want to be doing that kind of damage as early as possible in terms of distance to the charging mob so yet another reason to get that 10 range boost. Yes, I mourn the loss of the higher level arty abilities, but my goal is a great repeater build, not a great artificer build.

I'm also ecstatic that one of those rune arms has Toughness on it!!. This effectively frees up the head slot, since my bracers will be Windhowlers and can't wear the Thraak bracers. It also has a +4 craftable on it (I believe it is the same prefix/suffix as trinket slot?)...I can't recall what TrueSight's price modifier is, but that would be a nice one to socket there. Or +hit.

Man..I am very excited about the possibilities this update is going to add to the ranged game.

[Stillwaters]

That's the conclusion I came too as well. Now the PBS not only increases your sneak range by 10, but increases the base damage by double with that 10 extra range as well. That's a pretty big dps increase when you are looking at a greensteel heavy suddenly being 4d8(x3) plus double INT damage, likely a minimum of 8 for these builds, so 16(x3).

I definitely want to be doing that kind of damage as early as possible in terms of distance to the charging mob so yet another reason to get that 10 range boost. Yes, I mourn the loss of the higher level arty abilities, but my goal is a great repeater build, not a great artificer build.

I'm also ecstatic that one of those rune arms has Toughness on it!!. This effectively frees up the head slot, since my bracers will be Windhowlers and can't wear the Thraak bracers. It also has a +4 craftable on it (I believe it is the same prefix/suffix as trinket slot?)...I can't recall what TrueSight's price modifier is, but that would be a nice one to socket there. Or +hit.

Man..I am very excited about the possibilities this update is going to add to the ranged game.

Going RANGER (DeepsniperI) over FIGHTER ( Kensai1+FULL AA line) gives you a minor melee option you wont use, and all it truly gives you is 10 more range on PBS which is 1/2 a sec (less for devils) and rams might which you only get the effect for for about 20 secs on manyshot..
Ranger makes for harder levelling (Fighter levels taken whenever you want to add a feat or to correct BAB), fighter gives you another 5 hasteboosts to boot.

[wax_on_wax_off]

Off topic// I'm just missing the game files at the moment but I'll redownload them next month perhaps if things work out, still can't decide if I want to give running on OSX another go or go back to a windows partition//On topic

Are you sure that artificer enhancement will qualify for AA without mental toughness?

Kensai I + AA vs DWS I. Including AA certainly mixes up the comparison. This is comparing our 2 builds.
Kensai I:
+3 damage with crossbow only (weapon specialisation + chosen weapon)
+1 attack with crossbow only (chosen weapon)
32 extra HP
AA:
+25 damage with slayer arrows (500/20)
+5 returning arrows
costs how many AP?
vs
Ranger 6:
ITWF (opens up GTWF which is possibly more single target DPS than xbow/bow)
Skill points
Spell points
+1 attack, +6 damage vs Evil Outsiders and Constructs (for instance)
+2 strength, +2 damage
Better reflex saves (your build has 2 low reflex save classes)
DWS I:
+25ft on PBS and sneak attack (which I think could be crucial for playability)
Sniper Shot (works well with great crossbows I guess ...)

Overall I think if I wanted AA I'd still go for 6 ranger before 6 fighter.

Why construct essence? You'll have pretty crummy repair spells and you'll want to conserve most of your SP for buffing so you'll be better off boosting up your healing amp and using wands/scrolls.

You'll be spending a significant amount of APs on bow enhancements but you'll probably only use your bow for 20 seconds every 2 minutes. Is the investment really worth it?

Are you confident that a ranged only toon is really viable? I worry that things are spread too thinly on the Suppression Fire build (no IC:S, no quickdraw, no khopesh proficiency) but I think at this stage it's impossible to know what overall balance between the different fighting styles is optimal.

Suppression Fire build has 12 base strength at the moment with a variant listed for a possible starting strength of 6. I've played a 6 strength halfling before, it wasn't that bad (just had to have only small stacks of spell components to keep encumberance under control).

I'm not sure if damage boost or halfling guile will be better. For starters, neither build is eligible to take class based extra action boost enhancements. Beyond that I imagine that it will be gear dependent. Care to do the maths on how much damage you do/hit assuming optimal gear? Impossible to know what RoF will be at for live though ... I've adjusted my starting stats to be a little more optimal, halfling has some good synergy here. I'd worry that without epic gearing the halfling will have a significant AB advantage through sneak enhancements against high AC mobs.

[wax_on_wax_off]

Going RANGER (DeepsniperI) over FIGHTER ( Kensai1+FULL AA line) gives you a minor melee option you wont use, and all it truly gives you is 10 more range on PBS which is 1/2 a sec (less for devils) and rams might which you only get the effect for for about 20 secs on manyshot..
Ranger makes for harder levelling (Fighter levels taken whenever you want to add a feat or to correct BAB), fighter gives you another 5 hasteboosts to boot.

The usage or not of ITWF/GTWF is yet to be seen :) With GTWF you can still have 100.3*1.8 attacks/minute (before haste boost) which could be more single target DPS than xbow/bow (not counting manyshot/endless fusillade).

I've read that DWSI is increasing the range by +25ft out to 80ft. Not sure if this implies that the base range is being messed with in U11 or whatever else but I have heard consistently that the short range of sneak attack is a pain in the ass and this seems like it could be very situationally useful (for positioning, for getting 1 extra shot of sneak attack in, for still getting PBS on an enemy on a ledge or an epic caster when you want to stay close to your cover or for having a wider gap in which to line up enemies for IPS etc).

Rams Might gives +2 strength (useful for potential melee and manyshot) and +2 damage (useful for everything). Artificer levels should mean no problem for keeping this buff running all the time (except in anti-magic).

Fighter should only give 1 extra haste boost from Kensai I as rogue gives the haste boosts and the uses don't stack. Ranger will be much much easier to level as you simply take 6 ranger levels straight up which gives so many different abilities (after 1 rogue obviously). Overall, there are many different ways that you can level depending on your goals and priorities but at end game I think ranger will be better (basically because of the extra +6 damage vs evil outsiders).

[wonkey]

That's the conclusion I came too as well. Now the PBS not only increases your sneak range by 10, but increases the base damage by double with that 10 extra range as well. That's a pretty big dps increase when you are looking at a greensteel heavy suddenly being 4d8(x3) plus double INT damage, likely a minimum of 8 for these builds, so 16(x3).

I definitely want to be doing that kind of damage as early as possible in terms of distance to the charging mob so yet another reason to get that 10 range boost. Yes, I mourn the loss of the higher level arty abilities, but my goal is a great repeater build, not a great artificer build.

I'm also ecstatic that one of those rune arms has Toughness on it!!. This effectively frees up the head slot, since my bracers will be Windhowlers and can't wear the Thraak bracers. It also has a +4 craftable on it (I believe it is the same prefix/suffix as trinket slot?)...I can't recall what TrueSight's price modifier is, but that would be a nice one to socket there. Or +hit.

Man..I am very excited about the possibilities this update is going to add to the ranged game.

Heavy? Heavy? What a waste :p

I haven't looked into it too much, but from what I saw, there is an arty infuse that adds another stack to base damage.
a greensteel Great Crossbow has base 3d8 (18-20 x2)
With PBS and the infuse and improved crit it becomes 9d8 (15-20 x2)
with sniper shot that's 9d8 (13-20 x3) before any other damage is factored in.

How can you make artillery without this boomstick?

[wax_on_wax_off]

Heavy? Heavy? What a waste :p

I haven't looked into it too much, but from what I saw, there is an arty infuse that adds another stack to base damage.
a greensteel Great Crossbow has base 3d8 (18-20 x2)
With PBS and the infuse and improved crit it becomes 9d8 (15-20 x2)
with sniper shot that's 9d8 (13-20 x3) before any other damage is factored in.

How can you make artillery without this boomstick?

I think that it's only +1 to the threat range so it becomes (14-20*3).

I had the same conclusion though, 27d8 sounds like a fun surprise attack!

However, this build won't be able to make use of the Deadly Weapons infusion without a level 16+ Artificer along to buff so it isn't necessarily relevant (or at least as relevant as a bards inspire courage song).

Not sure what will be the highest DPS weapon for an artificer, LRXbow will have the fastest RoF, HRXbow will be in the middle and Greatcrossbow will have the highest base damage (but otherwise a utility weapon for the vorpal knockdown at high levels). Likely it will be an interesting contest between the 2 repeating bows with the epic hellfire crossbow being the best DPS vs non-fire immune foes at least.

[wonkey]

it's currently +2 to crit range (on live). I've tested it. Text doesn't always reflect this, but it's the case.

[PestWulf]

You can't take the artificer spell that doubles base damage and still get to level 6 in another prestige as you have to be lvl 15 Arty to get access to that spell.

Ranger vs. Fighter on the splash, I think you are selling the ranger a bit short. Deepwood sniper gives two spells (for me it would be ram's might and likely Jump for a +20 boost). The Rams Might is +2 STR and +2 Damage, so you'll see a nice little bump in repeater damage as well.

Beyond that you still have two favored enemies for +1hit and +6 damage to each category assuming you take the enhancements available. Quite a nice boost against the two categories that you deem the most problematic.

But also the extra 10 range units on PBS. Even if it is only one extra volley (and likely it would be two volleys), for a Rouge 11 / Ranger 6 / Art 3 build, you are looking at a lot of damage potential.

With a good INT, (about 26) a +5 heavy repeater with damage mods and using all the spells available to you, you are looking at about 45 damage per shot without sneak attack, 95 with sneak attack. Even if it's only 1 volley (and I believe it would be at least two if I were stationary, more if i'm backpeddling) a non-sneak attack were all three bolts hit would average a nice 135 damage.

NOTE: my character is a halfling, so my SA damage is higher than just rouge numbers.

I recognize this is situational. If you are stationary and have a tank holding agro, the extra 10 range is moot. If you solo or are in a small grouping, it becomes much more valuable.

As for the TWF and ITWF...with the way point blank shot is now, I'm not sure I would use my midnight greetings anymore unless the mobs are making it too difficult by moving around me too much. So yeah, the TWF/ITWF is likely a bit wasted, but at least it is there as an option for the future. I also think Manyshot with a good easy to aquire bow like Sinew may put out more damage at extreme ranges unless there's a good repeater that pops up for that.

Anyway, I'm less interested in what is wasted than what is gained. It hurts a little to not make full use of everything, but I like Ranger 6 over Fighter 6 for this.

[Ebforest60]

I'm toying with the idea of doing a 2nd TR (both Rogue past lives) building a GS Xbow beforehand. My questions are many: what kind of xbow will be "best", how to get the "best" combination of classes (or pure) for my bolt thrower, what is the "best" race, does the pet scale with Arty levels or char level?

I didn't realize that DWS adds to the damage dice with Point Blank, did I read that right? If so then that is mighty tempting (especially with a GS Great Xbow.) Though I suppose Deadly Weapons Infusion is superior and would requite a basically pure build.

Kensai is a nice buff to damage and the HP don't hurt. Rogue adds some good sneak attack damage (though I suppose if you go pure this can be replaced by the sneak attacks of your pet/or HElf Rogue Dilitant.)

I'm excited that Artificer has such versatility but the challenge now is getting what I want out of the class.

What I want...great damage from a primary crossbow user.

[rimble]

I didn't realize that DWS adds to the damage dice with Point Blank, did I read that right? If so then that is mighty tempting (especially with a GS Great Xbow.) Though I suppose Deadly Weapons Infusion is superior and would requite a basically pure build.

Point Blank Shot now doubles your base damage dice when your target is within PBS range. Normally, that range is 25m. DWS I adds another 10m to that. Keeping your target in Point Blank Shot range is another +9 damage with a GS Heavy Repeater (2d8 becomes 4d8).

[Ebforest60]

Ah I see, it is PBS that adds damage dice. Thanks for clearing that up. Has anyone tested if that +1(damage dice) stacks with Deadly Weapons Infusion? If it stacks then the question is, can I find an Pure Arty buddy to keep it going on me 24/7!

Hmmm I like the increased PBS range but at 15 Artificer you get Deadly Weapons which replicates the effect at ALL ranges. Tough call on this one. The range increase is tastey since you can take advantage of it much earlier (level 8 as I might build it) but at 15 (higher level is where it counts, right) you get it always.

[wonkey]

Point Blank Shot now doubles your base damage dice when your target is within PBS range. Normally, that range is 25m. DWS I adds another 10m to that. Keeping your target in Point Blank Shot range is another +9 damage with a GS Heavy Repeater (2d8 becomes 4d8).

It also gives you a sniper shot every 10 seconds that is +4 to hit, +2 to critical threat range, and +1 to crit mod.

So that 4d8 (6d8 on greensteel, 6d8 if you have a high-level arty cast the infuse, 9d8 with both greensteel and infuse) crits for 12d8 base damage (18d8, 18d8, 27d8) with a 13-20 crit range on sniper shots (15-20 without, for 8d8 (12d8,12d8,18d8) assuming for both improved crit)

[wax_on_wax_off]

Its worth noting with 10 Speed-boosts you can effectively run em constantly as soon as they go off timer and not run out

Pretty sure that you'll only get 6 haste boosts (5 base + 1 kensai). The uses don't stack between the 2 classes that have access. Or did I miss something?

[Ebforest60]

Threw a Lesser Heart3 on my Lama Arty at 15th and managed to get 6 Ranger levels to try out DWS. I'm not super sold on the extra damage Ranger brings to the party.

I WILL admit to using subpar gear, though I did find a +5 Pure Good Light Repeater. But I'm just not mowing stuff down in Vale slayers like I would expect. I suppose this is largely a result of the crossbows not scaling well at higher levels, it just feels like my 16 Acrobat tears stuff up much faster (though not as safely.)

I'll play around a bit more tonight with Sniper Shot and see if that improves things (also have a +4 Great Crossbow of Deception to try out.) Wish I could try out the 7/7/6 split or even a deep rogue split as I think sneak attack damage will be a big boost.

[Stillwaters]

Pretty sure that you'll only get 6 haste boosts (5 base + 1 kensai). The uses don't stack between the 2 classes that have access. Or did I miss something?

You didnt miss anything and +1 for the catch - it was late when i put this together (just wanted to be first on board with the build)

[Stillwaters]

Edited the main post to update how the boosts stack.

You will have a LOT of them..
Enjoy

[wiglin]

The epic chimera helm isn't worth using in my opinion unless you were using halfling dragonmarks.

You only gain +2 attack from the spectral gloves since its the same bonus on the wind howlers bracers, so may be worth swapping them out.

Here is an alternate gear setup.

Head: Epic Helm of the Mroranon (+7Wis, Fear Immunity, Wiz6 {yellow})
Eyes: Epic Goggles of Time Sensing (Haste CL17 5/5, +2Wis, Disease Immunity {yellow}, +1Con {Colorless}
Neck: Shroud (45HP’s, +6Dex Skills, Blur, Displacement CL13 2/2)
Trinket: Epic Spyglass (+2Int, +3UMD {Enhancement}, +20 Spot & Search, True Seeing, +2Luck)
Cloak: Epic Envenomed Cloak (+7Con, +5Resist, Greater Poison Guard, Poison Immunity {green})
Hands: Epic Brawlers Gloves (+7Str, +4Sneak Attack, +1Wis {Yellow Slot})
Wrists: Wind Howler Bracers (+2Atk, +1Dmg, 10d6Shock on Vorpal Hit)
Ring1: Kormors (+6Int, +1Str, +2Dex)
Ring2: Whispers (+6Dex, +1Int, +2Con)
Body: Dragontouched (10%Healing Amp, 20%Healing Amp, Radiance Guard)
Belt: Epic Belt of the Mroranon (+7Str, Heavy Fortification, Toughness, Greater False Life {yellow})
Feet: Jet Propulsion Boots (30%Striding, +15Jump, Featherfall, Jet Propulsion 1/1)

Using the brawlers gloves for sneak attack means you can open up your goggles to use time sensing for the yellow and colorless slots. Its also nice to have that haste clicky without having to swap items. With this setup you also come out with 4 more wisdom, which is nice for the bump to will saves. You also gain fear immunity by swapping to the helm of mroronan and you shouldn't have issues with umd so no reason to waste a slot for +6 cha.

[Stillwaters]

Nice gear list Wiglin- guess i should grind the big red some more.. those Mroranon items look impressive.

I never was great with gear optimization :P

I'd +1 ya but you are greyed out hehe

[wax_on_wax_off]

Edited the main post to update how the boosts stack.

You will have a LOT of them..
Enjoy

I hear that haste boost doesn't have a big impact on repeating crossbow RoF as it doesn't speed up the reload part of the animation?

I imagine the combo would be EF+V:D until exhausted. Then Arti Damage boost. Then Fighter Haste boost.

I'm sure that this has been covered but I'm not convinced of any mech/arti combo without ID being able to stack with mechI. I'd go with pure arti or at least enough of a base class to qualify for extra action boost.

I think it is a sorry waste of the dilettante feat to (at cap) only utilise barbarian toughness I.

APs are too tight and you are missing many good things. Improved UMD? Fighter, barbarian and racial Toughness II? W&S M II?

If you dropped the rogue levels and took rogue dilettante instead you would only be behind 1d6+9 sneak attack damage and ~5 AB (assuming end game potential of 30 to 36 dexterity and 40 to 46 intelligence) this would free up 24 APs to fill in the gaps (you can still take fighter haste boost II or III). The loss of sneak DPS would be more than made up for by whatever those 7 levels are spent on (more artificer or 6-8 ranger).

I'm still hanging out for a revision of DWSI and release of DWSII in U12. DWSII + BEI would be awesome I think.

[Stillwaters]

I hear that haste boost doesn't have a big impact on repeating crossbow RoF as it doesn't speed up the reload part of the animation?

I imagine the combo would be EF+V:D until exhausted. Then Arti Damage boost. Then Fighter Haste boost.

I'm sure that this has been covered but I'm not convinced of any mech/arti combo without ID being able to stack with mechI. I'd go with pure arti or at least enough of a base class to qualify for extra action boost.

I think it is a sorry waste of the dilettante feat to (at cap) only utilise barbarian toughness I.

APs are too tight and you are missing many good things. Improved UMD? Fighter, barbarian and racial Toughness II? W&S M II?

If you dropped the rogue levels and took rogue dilettante instead you would only be behind 1d6+9 sneak attack damage and ~5 AB (assuming end game potential of 30 to 36 dexterity and 40 to 46 intelligence) this would free up 24 APs to fill in the gaps (you can still take fighter haste boost II or III). The loss of sneak DPS would be more than made up for by whatever those 7 levels are spent on (more artificer or 6-8 ranger).

I'm still hanging out for a revision of DWSI and release of DWSII in U12. DWSII + BEI would be awesome I think.

Adding the 6 rogue lets you use int to hit and int to damage with any xbow (and buff it with elemental weps etc)

As for the dilly - can you suggest any dilly apart from rogue (which doesnt stack with the class levels) cause i looked pretty hard at em and without AP investment they came up short and +10 hp is pretty good for 1AP on an AP starved build... The main use of Helf on this build is for AA with Bursts from Versatility IV.

Haste boost does have an effect on repeaters (tho only for the fire bit - similar to rapid shot feat bonuses - and i don't see many builds without THAT :P

As for how you manage your boosts its up to you - for main boss fights if you open up with a fusillade most tanks will cry, its just too much DPS. (for eg i was taking down the practice dummy at lvl 12 in 6-7 seconds once i started firing my first shot- and i was just using standard bolts so i could get it faster), FTR Haste boost still works well when using the bow considering you want as many arrows firing as possible while manyshot is ON.

[wax_on_wax_off]

Adding the 6 rogue lets you use int to hit and int to damage with any xbow (and buff it with elemental weps etc)

However, after you qualify for IPS (19 dex requirement) Insightful Damage is only going to provide a +4-5 points of AB due to only a marginal difference in final possible dex and intelligence scores.

In fact, with your current gear/stats Insightful Strikes is only providing +3 AB. This can easily be made up for through a different class choice or gear.


As for the dilly - can you suggest any dilly apart from rogue (which doesnt stack with the class levels) cause i looked pretty hard at em and without AP investment they came up short and +10 hp is pretty good for 1AP on an AP starved build... The main use of Helf on this build is for AA with Bursts from Versatility IV.

That was why I went human on my build as there aren't any useful dillies for it and is part of the reason that I've suggested to drop the rogue levels altogether. Looking at your stats you only lose 1d6+9 sneak damage and 3 AB.


Haste boost does have an effect on repeaters (tho only for the fire bit - similar to rapid shot feat bonuses - and i don't see many builds without THAT :P

I wasn't suggesting not to take it but rather that it would be at the end of the roster with all damage boosts, endless fusillades and versatility: damage's already expended for maximum damage. I'm not sure if it's correct or not, I was just opening up the debate for discussion :)

[brian14]

It makes sense - Xbow equips to MAIN hand (rune arm equips to offhand but is an exception)... Scrolls likewise equip to main hand... its like a failsafe so non Arty UMD builds cannot boost xbows and 2handed weps.. (its also non confirmed but LIKELY that you can equip a scroll and boost a wep held in the OFF-hand!)
Yes, you can. And it can even be MAIN hand weapon, just temporarily in off-hand.

I do not have an artificer, but my high-UMD Bard picked up some Arti scrolls. I put a heavy pick (very much a main hand weapon) into off hand, picked up a scroll, and put Elemental Damage onto pick. Then put it back into proper hand.

[Stillwaters]

Yes, you can. And it can even be MAIN hand weapon, just temporarily in off-hand.

I do not have an artificer, but my high-UMD Bard picked up some Arti scrolls. I put a heavy pick (very much a main hand weapon) into off hand, picked up a scroll, and put Elemental Damage onto pick. Then put it back into proper hand.

yer it was a WHILE ago i wrote that - using scrolls (which are easily purchased and coming down in price) to make twin wielding non arty splashed monsters is fun.. while it lasts... expect the nerfbat soon enough.

[Stillwaters]

New pressies.. gear list and some minor tweaking

Build now ready for completionist (^^) i'd better keep up

[erikbozelie]

could you add a dps calculation to this build?
would be nice to know where this build stands.

[Stillwaters]

could you add a dps calculation to this build?
would be nice to know where this build stands.

I would but i dont have the required tools or time :P

Should be in top %ages for ranged builds tho

if anyone wants to take up the challenge of doing a DPS calc i'd <3 ya for it with a +1 rep (^^)

[Stillwaters]

10 min 45 sec boost sequence:

FULL AUTO: AKA unleashing HELL



#second / activity
1/ DP clicky (72 secs)+charge runearm
2/ charge Fusillade
6/ hit damage boost* (Human) as fusillade begins
8/ fire runearm
13/ switch to bow
14/ switch to slaying arrow
15/ hit manyshot*
36/ switch to xbow+runearm

37/ switch to bolts+charge runearm
38/ charge Fusillade
42/ hit damage boost** (Human) as fusillade begins
44/ fire runearm
47/ charge runearm
54/ fire runearm
57/ charge runearm
64/ fire runearm

67/ DP clicky (72 secs)+charge runearm
68/ charge Fusillade
72/ hit damage boost*** (Human) as fusillade begins
74/ fire runearm
77/ charge runearm
84/ fire runearm
87/ charge runearm
94/ fire runearm

97/ charge runearm
98/ charge Fusillade
102/ hit damage boost**** (Human) as fusillade begins
104/ fire runearm
107/ charge runearm
114/ fire runearm
117/ charge runearm
124/ fire runearm

127/ DP clicky (72 seconds) + charge runearm
128/ charge Fusillade
132/ hit damage boost***** (Human) as fusillade begins
134/ fire runearm
139/ switch to bow
140/ switch to slaying arrow
141/ hit manyshot**
162/ switch to xbow+runearm

163/ switch to bolts+charge runearm
164/ charge Fusillade
168/ hit damage boost****** (Human) as fusillade begins
170/ fire runearm
173/ charge runearm
180/ fire runearm
183/ charge runearm
190/ fire runearm

193/ DP clicky (72 seconds) + charge runearm
194/ charge Fusillade
198/ hit damage boost******* (Human) as fusillade begins
200/ fire runearm
203/ charge runearm
210/ fire runearm
213/ charge runearm
220/ fire runearm

223/ charge runearm
228/ hit haste boost* (Rogue)
230/ fire runearm
233/ charge runearm
240/ fire runearm
243/ charge runearm
250/ fire runearm
253/ charge runearm
260/ fire runearm


SEMI AUTO: Maintaining the pain



261/ switch to bow
262/ switch to slaying arrow
263/ DP clicky (72 seconds)
265/ hit manyshot***+haste boost ** (Rogue)
286/ switch to xbow+runearm

287/ switch to bolts+charge runearm
294/ fire runearm
295/ hit haste boost *** (Rogue)
297/ charge runearm
304/ fire runearm
307/ charge runearm
314/ fire runearm

317/ DP clicky (72 seconds) + charge runearm
324/ fire runearm
325/ hit haste boost **** (Rogue)
327/ charge runearm
334/ fire runearm
337/ charge runearm
344/ fire runearm

347/ charge runearm
354/ fire runearm
355/ hit haste boost ***** (Rogue)
357/ charge runearm
364/ fire runearm
367/ charge runearm
374/ fire runearm

380/ refresh Insightful damage(xbow)
381/ switch to bow
382/ switch to slaying arrow
383/ refresh Insightful damage(bow)
384/ DP clicky (72 secs)
385/ hit manyshot****+haste boost ****** (Rogue)
406/ switch to xbow+runearm

407/ switch to bolt+charge runearm
414/ fire runearm
415/ hit haste boost ******* (Rogue)
417/ charge runearm
424/ fire runearm
427/ charge runearm
434/ fire runearm


SINGLE SHOT: (saving ammo)



437/ DP clicky (72 seconds) + charge runearm
444/ fire runearm
445/ hit damage boost* (Artificer)
447/ charge runearm
454/ fire runearm
457/ charge runearm
464/ fire runearm

467/ charge runearm
474/ fire runearm
475/ hit damage boost** (Artificer)
477/ charge runearm
484/ fire runearm
487/ charge runearm
494/ fire runearm

502/ DP clicky (72 seconds)
503/ switch to bow
504/ switch to slaying arrow
505/ hit manyshot*****+damage boost*** (Artificer)
526/ switch to xbow+runearm

527/ switch to bolts + charge runearm
534/ fire runearm
535/ hit damage boost**** (Artificer)
537/ charge runearm
544/ fire runearm
547/ charge runearm
554/ fire runearm

557/ DP clicky (72 seconds) + charge runearm
564/ fire runearm
565/ hit damage boost ***** Artificer
567/ charge runearm
574/ fire runearm
577/ charge runearm
584/ fire runearm

587/ charge runearm
594/ fire runearm
595/ hit damage boost ******(Artificer)
597/ charge runearm
604/ fire runearm
607/ charge runearm
614/ fire runearm
617/ charge runearm
622/ DP clicky (72 seconds) + fire runearm
623/ switch to bow
624/ switch slaying arrows
625/ hit manyshot****** +damage boost******* (Artificer)
646/ switch to xbow+runearm
647/ switch to bolts + charge runearm
end sequence

There you have it 6 manyshots, 7 fusillade, 7versatility (damage) boosts, 7 haste boosts, 7 damage boosts.... 48 runearm blasts... now to get the mobs to stay still ;P