Who monitors the Neg Repers?

[Emizand]

Ok so if you receive negative reputation you can appeal and get it over turned. Fair enough. However is there a system in place to monitor if someone is abusing giving negative rep? Or are these self appointed judges free to neg rep to their hearts content. i.e. if somebody has n amount of their neg reps over turned do they see any consequences?

Emi

[karnokvolrath]

Ok so if you receive negative reputation you can appeal and get it over turned. Fair enough. However is there a system in place to monitor if someone is abusing giving negative rep? Or are these self appointed judges free to neg rep to their hearts content. i.e. if somebody has n amount of their neg reps over turned do they see any consequences?

Emi

If the same people get reported many times they can loose there rep skillz. This has happened to people before for both farming positive rep and exsessively negg'n/targeting people. "Most" people treat the rep system with decent respect so this rarely happens, but it has.

[ReaperAlexEU]

Ok so if you receive negative reputation you can appeal and get it over turned. Fair enough. However is there a system in place to monitor if someone is abusing giving negative rep? Or are these self appointed judges free to neg rep to their hearts content. i.e. if somebody has n amount of their neg reps over turned do they see any consequences?

Emi

memir says the mods keep an eye on people that keep abusing the neg rep button, so the answer is the forum mods do.

[Gkar]

Ok so if you receive negative reputation you can appeal and get it over turned. Fair enough. However is there a system in place to monitor if someone is abusing giving negative rep? Or are these self appointed judges free to neg rep to their hearts content. i.e. if somebody has n amount of their neg reps over turned do they see any consequences?

Emi

The mods aren't stupid. They have been very open in the past about the fact that you can receive a warning, infraction points, or the loss of your forum rep if you misbehave in giving out rep. Although we can't discuss specifics, we know that discipline has been used in the past.

[dkyle]

It is possible to get infractions for giving inappropriate neg rep.

The forum mods monitor neg rep, but I doubt they check unreported rep, so be sure to report undeserved neg rep.

[Vellrad]

If the same people get reported many times they can loose there rep skillz. This has happened to people before for both farming positive rep and exsessively negg'n/targeting people. "Most" people treat the rep system with decent respect so this rarely happens, but it has.

Actually, most people treats neg rep as 'Zomg! he disagreeded! Lets neg rep him!!!1!' and pos as 'Zomg! Its so funny! Lets pos rep him!!!1!'

[dingal]

A better question would be "Who actually cares about forum rep?"

Seriously.

Do you look at someone's rep level and assume they will be providing you with useful information? I never even notice nor care.

[rest]

What I wanna know is who neg reps the monitors??

[Memnir]

Ok so if you receive negative reputation you can appeal and get it over turned. Fair enough. However is there a system in place to monitor if someone is abusing giving negative rep? Or are these self appointed judges free to neg rep to their hearts content. i.e. if somebody has n amount of their neg reps over turned do they see any consequences?

EmiThe Mods do. And they have handed out punitive measures to those who've abused the Rep system in the past. But, I doubt highly that they monitor each and every Neg handed out per-day.


So... report any you feel is undeserved. Because if the person handing it out has a track record of doing so for no good reason, they'll answer for it. Now, I'm not saying you should report all Neg Rep - just the ones you feel you got for reasons not in accordance with the rules. I've gotten Negged when I know I deserved it, and I don't report those. Doing that would slow things down for legit complaints, and sour the Devs on the whole appeals thing.

Just sayin'. :)

[dkyle]

Actually, most people treats neg rep as 'Zomg! he disagreeded! Lets neg rep him!!!1!' and pos as 'Zomg! Its so funny! Lets pos rep him!!!1!'

I don't know... I post a lot of things in serious disagreement with a lot of people, and I rarely get neg rep. Most of my pos rep is from humor posts, though.

[dkyle]

What I wanna know is who neg reps the monitors??

We used to be able to...

[karnokvolrath]

Actually, most people treats neg rep as 'Zomg! he disagreeded! Lets neg rep him!!!1!' and pos as 'Zomg! Its so funny! Lets pos rep him!!!1!'

Well...maybe. I prolly souldnt talk for "most" people i guess. I Pos for good informative posts, and have only negged one person for blantantly trolling/stirring the pot/being an a$$hat. Sometimes if its REALLY funny ill pos rep, but i try not to.


I'm not saying you should report all Neg Rep - just the ones you feel you got for reasons not in accordance with the rules. I've gotten Negged when I know I deserved it, and I don't report those. Doing that would slow things down for legit complaints, and sour the Devs on the whole appeals thing.


This ^^^
ONe day i was going to report a neg, then i read the post and thought..."Well, ya i kinda had that one coming".

I lol, got over it, and didnt bother.

[Missing_Minds]

What I wanna know is who neg reps the monitors??

electrons.

[Doganpc]

I still think the subject of this thread should have been, "Who Neg's the Neg Reper's?"

Dogan
I care only enough to flaunt my disabled rep.

[Claransa]

A better question would be "Who actually cares about forum rep?"

Seriously.

Do you look at someone's rep level and assume they will be providing you with useful information? I never even notice nor care.

^this

I'm sure most people don't even know about forum rep, i'm still not sure about it myself and yeah couldn't give a kobold's behind about it. I have learned to recognize certain names though, a much better determining factor in whether its worth bothering to read the post. I still say 80% of the stuff on the forums isn't even worth reading anyway, the remaining 20% is mostly old stuff that amazingly still has a lot of value. Well done all you founder's out there, you've taught me a lot even if I had to think for myself sometimes to fit it into the game today.

[TheDjinnFor]

I still think the subject of this thread should have been, "Who Neg's the Neg Reper's?"

Usually the person who recieved the neg rep. As evidenced by the fact that I always get neg rep for telling someone who can neg rep me back that I neg repped them, and never get neg rep for telling someone who can't neg rep me back that I neg repped them.

With a few exceptions that I can recall, but then I had it coming :)

[Rumbaar]

Ok so if you receive negative reputation you can appeal and get it over turned. Fair enough. This in print is possible, but in practice less than accurate.

The forum is an external mini game which the rep system is meant to distract forum members from the true issues like bad moderation, lack of information and other issues at Turbine.

They'll keep the system for as long as it is a viable distraction to any need for better community relations.

[Emizand]

Thanks all for your comments.

May I ask one further question please. Does my post on this thread deserve the neg rep I have received for it?

[rest]

We used to be able to...

I know :(

[rest]

Thanks all for your comments.

May I ask one further question please. Does my post on this thread deserve the neg rep I have received for it?

Not if you were just asking a sincere question to better understand the rep system. Unfortunately everyone's definition of 'trolling' is different so people will neg rep for all sorts of ridiculous reasons. As stated previously, if you receive neg rep on a post and you feel it was unwarranted, report the post using the http://cdn.content.turbine.com/sites/forums.ddo.com/images/buttons/red/report.gif button and put in the comments you feel you were given an unfair neg rep. The mods will then check the post in question and remove the neg rep if it was unwarranted.

[Emizand]

Not if you were just asking a sincere question to better understand the rep system. Unfortunately everyone's definition of 'trolling' is different so people will neg rep for all sorts of ridiculous reasons. As stated previously, if you receive neg rep on a post and you feel it was unwarranted, report the post using the http://cdn.content.turbine.com/sites/forums.ddo.com/images/buttons/red/report.gif button and put in the comments you feel you were given an unfair neg rep. The mods will then check the post in question and remove the neg rep if it was unwarranted.

I have reported it. Thanks! Seems a shame to waste someones time with it though

[Rumbaar]

Thanks all for your comments.

May I ask one further question please. Does my post on this thread deserve the neg rep I have received for it?Some of those that can give it are of weak minds. No point in reporting it, as Turbine see's talking about rep as a grounds for people giving your negative rep.

So there is no real community service or relations, just think of it as Fight Club. You just can't talk about it.

[cardmj1]

Also, be aware that if you receive a neg rep and report it to have it overturned. The Mods may not judge in favor of you. Look at the post that got you neg rep'd and make sure you were following the rules.

[Sleepsalot]

80% of the posts that get Neg rep is because some one thinks differently then some one else.. The system is Flawed it is a well known Fact. Although many here Claim it works as it should.. But then most of those are the special ones that trhow neg rep any time they want.. Just my Take as always...


Sleeps :) :D :)

[Emizand]

Also, be aware that if you receive a neg rep and report it to have it overturned. The Mods may not judge in favor of you. Look at the post that got you neg rep'd and make sure you were following the rules.


I have been neg repped for this opening post! Do you think that it deserves neg rep?

[Emizand]

Some of those that can give it are of weak minds. No point in reporting it

Oh there is every point in reporting it.

[GrampaBill]

I have been neg repped for this opening post! Do you think that it deserves neg rep?

Doesn't really matter what we think, we can't overturn them. However you are beginning to make me wonder if you're fishing for positive rep by saying you were negged.

[Emizand]

Doesn't really matter what we think, we can't overturn them. However you are beginning to make me wonder if you're fishing for positive rep by saying you were negged.

Dont give any.

I am not fishing for anything. Tried to cut and paste but only got this:-


Thread Date
Who monitors the Neg... 08-09-2011 11:28 PM


So that doesnt show anything.

Bottom line is I ask a question about those who may abuse neg rep and receive neg rep for it. Interesting dont you think?


The reason I started this post in the first place is due to this thread http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=333673 where myself and 2 others received neg rep for no reasons that made sense to me. For the opening post in this thread I received neg rep. I dont want rep added, I want rep back and to know what happens to those who abuse their ability to give neg.

[Rumbaar]

Oh there is every point in reporting it.Good luck. I'd be interesting to hear if you even get a response.

Also turning off the rep display will be the best way to handle rep on this forum. It has no baring on anything.

[Emizand]

Good luck. I'd be interesting to hear if you even get a response.

Received a reply today apologising for the delay but assuring me that the matter will be fully investigated. I am hoping that it is resolved prior to my payment date next month.


Also turning off the rep display will be the best way to handle rep on this forum. It has no baring on anything.

This is something I am fully considering and will make my decision after the matter is concluded.

[Dysmetria]

There are no clear definitions of what rep is or is not supposed to be handed out for, just a few examples of why one could give it. So in my opinion, rep can be given out for any reason, including not liking or not agreeing with what someone says.

Abuse of the reputation system on the other hand, is clearly defined. It is asking for positive reputation, (either blatantly, or by complining about receiving negative rep like the OP has been doing in this thread,) or by trying to get others to give someone reputation, (by claiming you gave someone positive or negaive rep and/or that others should do the same.) Basically it is any attempt to artificially increase your own or someone else's rep level, yet legitimae abuse of the rep system is rarely reported.

If people can be penalized for handing out negative rep, then those claiming that they received "unwarranted rep" should likewise be penalized if their reports are found to be false. Of course the hyporicy of this situation is that hardly anyone ever reports the positive rep they received and feel was unwaranted to try to get it removed.

[Crann]

I am hoping that it is resolved prior to my payment date next month.

Forget the rep, play the game.

If you are considering leaving the game because of your forum rep, then you have it backwards.

I use the Forums to enhance my game experience, not the other way around.

[Lithic]

I have been neg repped for this opening post! Do you think that it deserves neg rep?



Ok so if you receive negative reputation you can appeal and get it over turned. Fair enough. However is there a system in place to monitor if someone is abusing giving negative rep? Or are these self appointed judges free to neg rep to their hearts content. i.e. if somebody has n amount of their neg reps over turned do they see any consequences?

Emi


The above part in red is likely what got you the neg hit. It really isn't hard to see that some of the "self appointed judges" might take exception. By the way, they aren't self appointed as you cannot rep yourself without using multiple accounts, and such a pattern has been discovered and punished in the past.

[Chai]

A better question would be "Who actually cares about forum rep?"

Seriously.

Do you look at someone's rep level and assume they will be providing you with useful information? I never even notice nor care.

I do, and theres quite a few others who also do, but not for the vain obvious reasons.

If we are forced to be under the system in order to post on these boards, then I care about it, and have and will lobby to make the system work correctly under its definition, which it clearly does not currently. Otherwise, give us an opt out - not just a "do not display rep" button, but an opt out of the system which allows us to post but not be subject to anonymous trolling of neg rep, and lack of action when the system is abused.

You will also notice that the crusade to actually fix or rid us of the system is lead by those with large green bars.

[Thrudh]

Received a reply today apologising for the delay but assuring me that the matter will be fully investigated. I am hoping that it is resolved prior to my payment date next month.

Heh, you're going to stop paying for a game you've played for 2.5 years because someone gave you neg rep (which doesn't matter for anything) on the forums?

Just turn it off if it bothers you so...

[Chai]

The above part in red is likely what got you the neg hit. It really isn't hard to see that some of the "self appointed judges" might take exception. By the way, they aren't self appointed as you cannot rep yourself without using multiple accounts, and such a pattern has been discovered and punished in the past.

Yeap, when you call a spade a spade, the spades get ticked off about it, heh.

[Chai]

Heh, you're going to stop paying for a game you've played for 2.5 years because someone gave you neg rep (which doesn't matter for anything) on the forums?

Just turn it off if it bothers you so...

Which changes nothing. This person can still be anonymously trolled into automod status simply due to disagreement, which fails.

[Thrudh]

Which changes nothing. This person can still be anonymously trolled into automod status simply due to disagreement, which fails.

I don't believe this has ever happened to anyone who didn't deserve it.

Every person I have ever seen with a large red bar 100% deserved it.

The fact that YOU (and me), who disagree with plenty of vet players on these boards all the time, have over 10,000 rep shows that the system works fine...

No group of grumpy vets have managed to shut you or I down just because they disagree with us. In fact, you and I have a very high amount of positive rep.

It takes being a real jerk to get ton of negative rep, enough to be put in automod status. Everyone I've seen in that situation deserved it.

The system works fine. I don't understand why you guys think it doesn't.

[Miow]

We have a rep system? Why do we need that?

[Brian_of_Oz]

A better question would be "Who actually cares about forum rep?"

Seriously.

Do you look at someone's rep level and assume they will be providing you with useful information? I never even notice nor care.

Funny I seem to recall a thread where u begged for the rep you lost when you changed your forum name..

[jandhaer]

There are people who go out of their way to try and help others and to give real game tested information and insight and Kudos to them, may they have little green box blessings showered upon them. BUT 90+% of the forums are completely based on ****OPINION*** so the real awnser is WHO CARES. Its a system put in place to affect absolutely nothing. I have another green box yaaaaaaaaaaaaay, that means im better then people with less boxes, oh wait no it doesn't. People who go around posting meaningless (but funny'ish or cutesy) things will have more green boxes then those that don't.

People will go around neg repping others simply because they do not agree with what the poster has said, even when it is completely their truthful opinion on the matter. If you get neg repped how has it affected you in anyway??? Did you loose a green box OOOH NOOOES T.T

The Forum Rep idea IMHO was implemented as a kindergarden gold star based system to get YOU to be FREE forum monitors (something people at turbine actually get paid to do). Can't be mad at them for getting some free labor.

I do think its amusing that the hallway monitors at my school were made fun of and yet everyone eagerly signs up for the job here :P Just kill the rep system already and people can continue spouting of their opinions and WHEN they get out of line and abusive the monitors, like they do now, will take action (notice when this happens they dont just click the disagree/neg rep button but take ACTUAL action with consequences even).

[Emizand]

Forget the rep, play the game.

Its not the rep. Its the fact I am paying a company that has introduced a system that is open to abuse/bullying (in my opinion) and doesnt monitor it. The same company has taken 2 weeks to inform e that there will be a delay. I know everyone is under workloads and time constraints, but I believe it would be best to scrap the rep system altogether. I am expecting to hear from people again 2 weeks at the latest. Will I leave beacuse of this, most unlikely. Will this be a factor when I consider leaving, most definately. However it could be a positive factor depending, time will tell.



If we are forced to be under the system in order to post on these boards, then I care about it, and have and will lobby to make the system work correctly under its definition, which it clearly does not currently. Otherwise, give us an opt out - not just a "do not display rep" button, but an opt out of the system which allows us to post but not be subject to anonymous trolling of neg rep, and lack of action when the system is abused.

This!



Heh, you're going to stop paying for a game you've played for 2.5 years because someone gave you neg rep (which doesn't matter for anything) on the forums?

Over 5 years if you include keeper. I think I explained earlier why it will be a plus or con when I decide to evaluate if I stay with the game or not.



Just turn it off if it bothers you so...


Am seriously considering it after this is resolved. However just ignoring something thats wrong doesnt sit pretty with me.

[Thrudh]

You are way over-reacting...

Who cares how long they take to review your neg rep?

Who cares if they EVER remove your neg rep?

You? You care? Really?

Why?

I don't even bother reporting the occasional unfair neg rep I get... It's rare... And I'm not well-liked by many posters on these boards. And yet, unfair neg rep is very rare for me...

Pretty much all the neg rep I've gotten, I've deserved... So the system works... I cross the line, I get a few neg reps, I look at my post, and I say "Yeah, that was a bit much", and I tone it down going forward.

It's a feedback loop that generally works.... There's nothing really broken with it.

[7-day_Trial_Monkey]

Its the fact I am paying a company that has introduced a system that is open to abuse/bullying (in my opinion) and doesnt monitor it.

Why would you say that when you know it is not true? (bold part)

[Emizand]

Why would you say that when you know it is not true? (bold part)


The forum mods monitor neg rep, but I doubt they check unreported rep, so be sure to report undeserved neg rep.


My understanding from that, and I may be wrong, is it is not monitored as such, but you can report neg rep you believe is wrongly given. If I am wrong and it is monitored by someone surely that time could be better spent doing something else.

[Emizand]

You care? Really?

Why?




I ask a question about who monitors those who give neg rep and recieve neg rep for it. Yes I care. To me, again we arent all the same and percieve things diffrently, that is "How dare you question us". So yes I care!

[7-day_Trial_Monkey]

My understanding from that, and I may be wrong, is it is not monitored as such, but you can report neg rep you believe is wrongly given. If I am wrong and it is monitored by someone surely that time could be better spent doing something else.

Having someone review when an appeal is made is monitoring the situation. Having someone automatically review every instance of rep given without any appeal is not monitoring, it is an absurdity.

And why on earth would suggest in your first mention of monitoring that the fact that it is not monitored (per your definition) is a bad thing. And now turn around and say if they were doing that their time could be better spent doing something else?????

Feel free to be critical of the company. But at least try to keep some internal consistency to your argument.

[phillymiket]

What I wanna know is who neg reps the monitors??


electrons.

+1

You don't hear many cathode ray tube jokes anymore.
.

[Emizand]

Having someone review when an appeal is made is monitoring the situation. .

My original post


Ok so if you receive negative reputation you can appeal and get it over turned. Fair enough. However is there a system in place to monitor if someone is abusing giving negative rep? Or are these self appointed judges free to neg rep to their hearts content. i.e. if somebody has n amount of their neg reps over turned do they see any consequences?

I realized you could get neg rep changed, but was asking if those who give it are monitored



Having someone automatically review every instance of rep given without any appeal is not monitoring, it is an absurdity..

Agreed!



And why on earth would suggest in your first mention of monitoring that the fact that it is not monitored (per your definition) is a bad thing. And now turn around and say if they were doing that their time could be better spent doing something else?????

I said 2 weeks ago it was a waste of time


I have reported it. Thanks! Seems a shame to waste someones time with it though




Feel free to be critical of the company. But at least try to keep some internal consistency to your argument.

Preffered Flip flop much! ;-)

[Memnir]

Its the fact I am paying a company that has introduced a system that is open to abuse/bullying (in my opinion) and doesnt monitor itBut, they do monitor it. It just requires you to spur the process along, is all.


When you report Rep you feel is abusive or improperly given, they review it to see if you are correct. If they agree that it was not toeing the line of the rules, they'll remove the Rep. If not, the Rep stays. The Mods can see who gave Rep, even if we cannot. If a person is reported for giving out too many abusive Rep hits, they will be disciplined. It's happened before.


It would be a full time job for a Mod to review each and every incident of Neg Rep independently and automatically. Right now, that's not going to happen since they have other things to do - and I don't see Turbine creating a position exclusively to be the Reviewer Of Rep (but if they do, I'll happily apply).

So, in order to make the Mods live up to their end of the system - report abusive Rep. If the other person is chronically abusive - they'll deal with it. But just because they don't have the levels of monitoring you'd like - it does not mean it's unmonitored.

[7-day_Trial_Monkey]

Preffered Flip flop much! ;-)

It seemed a little personal so I removed that. :)

[Emizand]

But just because they don't have the levels of monitoring you'd like - it does not mean it's unmonitored.

Fair comment!

[Emizand]

It seemed a little personal so I removed that. :)


Not at all, it made me smile.

[Chai]

But, they do monitor it. It just requires you to spur the process along, is all.


When you report Rep you feel is abusive or improperly given, they review it to see if you are correct. If they agree that it was not toeing the line of the rules, they'll remove the Rep. If not, the Rep stays. The Mods can see who gave Rep, even if we cannot. If a person is reported for giving out too many abusive Rep hits, they will be disciplined. It's happened before.


It would be a full time job for a Mod to review each and every incident of Neg Rep independently and automatically. Right now, that's not going to happen since they have other things to do - and I don't see Turbine creating a position exclusively to be the Reviewer Of Rep (but if they do, I'll happily apply).

So, in order to make the Mods live up to their end of the system - report abusive Rep. If the other person is chronically abusive - they'll deal with it. But just because they don't have the levels of monitoring you'd like - it does not mean it's unmonitored.

I wouldnt expect to have people on staff whose sole job is to review every single red pip, heh. It would be nice if they had a system that flags certain cases where either:

1. One person neg reps the same person every chance they get.

2. Alot of people neg rep the same person in the same thread. (besides the automod flag)

In the case of number 1, when people tried to have a neg rep fest with my new account ~2008 simply because I disagreed with the masses, it was denied by a few notable sources that this was the case, including those who were perpetrating it. I new this was false of course, but had no way to prove it, right up to and including that wonderful little day where a glitch in the system allowd us to see who repped us. Im sure those screenshots are sitting on my old system drive on a PC I no longer use. The fact is, I was correct. There were notably three individuals who were abusing the system repping posts that I had made in threads that were months old, that they clearly had no interest in, other than hitting me up ninja style every chance the system gave them.

The fact that someone can be rep trolled into automod by a few individuals whose rep has high impact is a pathetic highscool-esque mentality, and the fact that its still alowed is absurd. Theres no way to turn this off, so telling users to "just ignore it, who cares" doesnt work. They are still affected by abuse of the system regardless of how much they care about it. I feel that if people can get negged into automod status, there should be a flag in the system that puts abusers ability to rep into automod status if they are clearly abusing the system.

In the case of number 2, its either a pile on, or the target of all the rep is trolling (or both). In either case, thats when they need to step in and review for abuse of the system, and not just for violations of the posting guidelines, but for violations of the rep guidelines as well.

[Emizand]

In the case of number 1, when people tried to have a neg rep fest with my new account ~2008 simply because I disagreed with the masses, it was denied by a few notable sources that this was the case, including those who were perpetrating it. I new this was false of course, but had no way to prove it, right up to and including that wonderful little day where a glitch in the system allowd us to see who repped us. Im sure those screenshots are sitting on my old system drive on a PC I no longer use. The fact is, I was correct. There were notably three individuals who were abusing the system repping posts that I had made in threads that were months old, that they clearly had no interest in, other than hitting me up ninja style every chance the system gave them.

Did you report this? If so what was the outcome? If not why not, because I can imagine a lot of people havent reported incidents (maybe not as severe as this).



The fact that someone can be rep trolled into automod by a few individuals whose rep has high impact is a pathetic highscool-esque mentality, and the fact that its still alowed is absurd. Theres no way to turn this off, so telling users to "just ignore it, who cares" doesnt work. They are still affected by abuse of the system regardless of how much they care about it. I feel that if people can get negged into automod status, there should be a flag in the system that puts abusers ability to rep into automod status if they are clearly abusing the system.

Yeah, thats the bullying bit, as I percieve it.


Would +1 rep for your concise and insightful arguements/points, but need to spread more around first.

[Chai]

Did you report this? If so what was the outcome? If not why not, because I can imagine a lot of people havent reported incidents (maybe not as severe as this).

We dont get to know the outcome, as discipline isnt discussed by mods and they ask us not to discuss it as well.

It did happen for a while though. Eventually it stopped. I can only speculate as to why, heh.

Some people have long green bars and their pos and neg repping power is high enough where each time they use it on a newer poster the effect it has gives them alot of green or red depending on how they use it. Ive seen suggestions to make it so that one pos or neg rep = one point, regardless of the size of the green or red bar. Cant say I disagree.



Yeah, thats the bullying bit, as I percieve it.


Would +1 rep for your concise and insightful arguements/points, but need to spread more around first.

TY.

[PuppiesAndRainbows]

Puppies and Rainbows

[TheDjinnFor]

The fact that someone can be rep trolled into automod by a few individuals whose rep has high impact is a pathetic highscool-esque mentality, and the fact that its still alowed is absurd. Theres no way to turn this off, so telling users to "just ignore it, who cares" doesnt work. They are still affected by abuse of the system regardless of how much they care about it. I feel that if people can get negged into automod status, there should be a flag in the system that puts abusers ability to rep into automod status if they are clearly abusing the system.

Maybe I'm insulated since I never got much neg rep, but I have NEVER seen anyone with 4 red bars or more who I liked as a person or a poster or would give pos rep too. I don't recall ever pos repping them for anything. I don't recall ever negging someone who had tons of red bars, but I probably would if they said something awful.

From my perspective, the use of negs to stick someone into automod status is a good thing, and I wouldn't call it bullying, but rather reasonable and useful. Moral of the story: don't **** off established vets on your first day on the forums, keep to yourself and make intelligent or useful posts and you'll get enough greenies to insulate you from the trolls. Most of the people I know of who are deep in the red made a bunch of arrogant, insulting, and inflammatory posts at one point, usually on their first few days here.

[Hambo]

We used to be able to...

...until it was abused, then all the mods turned off their rep display and bowed out of the system.

[Lleren]

Ok so if you receive negative reputation you can appeal and get it over turned. Fair enough. However is there a system in place to monitor if someone is abusing giving negative rep? Or are these self appointed judges free to neg rep to their hearts content. i.e. if somebody has n amount of their neg reps over turned do they see any consequences?

Emi

I could see someone neg repping this post. Yer engaging in namecalling to strengthen yer argument.

Later posts where you mention that you recieved neg rep, will likely be neg repped as well, as several posters consider that neg rep worthy.

[Hambo]

+1

You don't hear many cathode ray tube jokes anymore.
.

In a vacuum (tube) no one can hear you laugh! :D

[Emizand]

I could see someone neg repping this post. Yer engaging in namecalling to strengthen yer argument.

I hardly consider 'self appointed judges' as name calling, as a matter of fact that is extremelly mild for the streets of Liverpool.



Later posts where you mention that you recieved neg rep, will likely be neg repped as well, as several posters consider that neg rep worthy.

Should it be? If so make it a rule, then people may be clearer where they stand. Personally I find it ironic at best and bullying at worst that neg rep is awarded for asking what happens to people who give neg rep if it is found to be unjustified. Just my view.

[Phemt81]

i Have Reported It. Thanks! Seems A Shame To Waste Someones Time With It Though

This^^^

+1

[Lleren]

I hardly consider 'self appointed judges' as name calling, as a matter of fact that is extremelly mild for the streets of Liverpool.




Should it be? If so make it a rule, then people may be clearer where they stand. Personally I find it ironic at best and bullying at worst that neg rep is awarded for asking what happens to people who give neg rep if it is found to be unjustified. Just my view.


/shrug. I don't care where it is mild for. It is the main reason I'd see that post getting neg repped, other then the talking about neg rep gets you neg repped forum standard. Later posts where better examples of talkin bout neg rep gets you neg rep.

Supposedly there a rule against reputation fishing. I'm not claiming there is, as I'm not going to go look up a link or dev quotes.

Edit: If I was to consider neg repping as bullying, then I would consider "self appointed judges" to be namecalling for the sake of consistency.

[irivan]

I will say it again....

The reputation system is a high school popularity contest, those that like you will give you rep as long as you are a part of the consensus, those that don't, will neg rep you, even for simply disagreeing with them.

Don't fail to be ultra polite or they will neg rep you.

For my part, i am, as i have since the very day they started the high school popularity contest, am boycotting the system, it is useless and does nothing to encourage the free flow of ideas, and was invented by a lazy group of mods that didn't want to police their own population any more, with out realizing before hand what it would come to, and now that it has, are to lazy to dismantle it.

Every time i read one of these posts i laugh, and then come make my obligatory response to it all.

BOYCOTT the REP SYSTEM!!!

[Thrudh]

The fact that someone can be rep trolled into automod by a few individuals whose rep has high impact is a pathetic highscool-esque mentality, and the fact that its still alowed is absurd.

They can't.

(1) You can only rep someone once a week or so, so even a forum gang of 10 evil guys can't do that much damage
(2) You can report, and get neg rep removed. If the gang of 10 continue, and you continue to report, the mods will take action against them.

You're upset about something that doesn't exist.

How in the world do you have over 10,000 rep if the system is so easy to abuse? You're one of the most confrontational posters on these boards (but you also make good points). You've obviously gotten a ton more positive rep than negative rep even though the "evil gang" was forum-rep bullying you.

The system works fine.

[Thrudh]

Would +1 rep for your concise and insightful arguements/points, but need to spread more around first.

Case in point why it's hard to abuse the system, either positive or negative.

[Thrudh]

Maybe I'm insulated since I never got much neg rep, but I have NEVER seen anyone with 4 red bars or more who I liked as a person or a poster or would give pos rep too. I don't recall ever pos repping them for anything. I don't recall ever negging someone who had tons of red bars, but I probably would if they said something awful.

From my perspective, the use of negs to stick someone into automod status is a good thing, and I wouldn't call it bullying, but rather reasonable and useful. Moral of the story: don't **** off established vets on your first day on the forums, keep to yourself and make intelligent or useful posts and you'll get enough greenies to insulate you from the trolls. Most of the people I know of who are deep in the red made a bunch of arrogant, insulting, and inflammatory posts at one point, usually on their first few days here.

This.

Everyone I have seen in automod status (deep line of reds) deserved it.

[Thrudh]

I hardly consider 'self appointed judges' as name calling, as a matter of fact that is extremelly mild for the streets of Liverpool.

If you're from the streets of Liverpool, surely you have thick enough skin to shrug off an occasional neg rep from an unknown person on the Internet...

[Emizand]

/shrug. I don't care where it is mild for.

So just to clarify you consider 'self appointed judges' to be name calling/abusive?



talking about neg rep gets you neg repped forum standard.

Standard, not rule? Who's standard, mine?



Supposedly there a rule against reputation fishing.

Is that an accusation?



If I was to consider neg repping as bullying, then I would consider "self appointed judges" to be namecalling for the sake of consistency.

Do you consider neg repping as bullying? If not you are just making an assumption what you would consider name calling under different circumstances. I would suggest its hard to deal in counterfactuals.

[Emizand]

If you're from the streets of Liverpool, surely you have thick enough skin to shrug off an occasional neg rep from an unknown person on the Internet...

Lol! My skin is thick enough. Its now a point of principal. Also I think this is, by enlarge, a useful discussion.

[Chai]

Maybe I'm insulated since I never got much neg rep, but I have NEVER seen anyone with 4 red bars or more who I liked as a person or a poster or would give pos rep too. I don't recall ever pos repping them for anything. I don't recall ever negging someone who had tons of red bars, but I probably would if they said something awful.

I have seen a few other than myself get negged into automod who didnt deserve it. A couple of their posts were god aweful, but most werent posts I would consider negging.

Another issue is the "crying wolf" situation. If alot of people take it apon themselves to neg rep the same user over a bunch of disagreement several times over, and they get pushed into automod repeatedly simply due to repeated pile ons in every thread they start, then one day their target actually does shoot their proverbial mouths off and say some real demeaning stuff, everyone piles on the neg rep train, but this gets viewed as "oh geez, everyone is piling on so and so again, for the fifth time this week, what else is new" and is casually dismissed. I know of two occasions where this happened. Had the forumites repped and reported the stuff that was actually reppable and reportable instead of piling on for simple entertainment value every time the user posted something new, something would have likely been done about those cases when they were clearly over the line.


From my perspective, the use of negs to stick someone into automod status is a good thing, and I wouldn't call it bullying, but rather reasonable and useful. Moral of the story: don't **** off established vets on your first day on the forums, keep to yourself and make intelligent or useful posts and you'll get enough greenies to insulate you from the trolls. Most of the people I know of who are deep in the red made a bunch of arrogant, insulting, and inflammatory posts at one point, usually on their first few days here.

In my opinion its a good thing when it works correctly. When it does not, and people are getting hosed into automod status due to the combination of disagreeing with the old guard while at the same time being new themselves (one example) - the system fails. If the old vets cant handle disagreement where they have to neg rep someone into oblivion, theres likely more than one issue there. I think the person who was repped into automod should be under review, but ALSO, the vets who negged them into automod should be under review as well. Whoever is found to be abusing the system takes the hit, and its not a one sided street. Instead of looking one way or the other, the entire situation is investigated. The "old vets" shouldnt get a free pass, simply because their friends patted them on the back for 4.5 years enough times to fully charge their green stun rod of doom.

[puget]

I have seen a few other than myself get negged into automod who didnt deserve it. A couple of their posts were god aweful, but most werent posts I would consider negging.



In my opinion its a good thing when it works correctly. When it does not, and people are getting hosed into automod status due to the combination of disagreeing with the old guard while at the same time being new themselves (one example) - the system fails. If the old vets cant handle disagreement where they have to neg rep someone into oblivion, theres likely more than one issue there. I think the person who was repped into automod should be under review, but ALSO, the vets who negged them into automod should be under review as well. Whoever is found to be abusing the system takes the hit, and its not a one sided street. Instead of looking one way or the other, the entire situation is investigated.


I would +1 you, but it would be wasted on you, I will save it for a poor(meaning little or no green bar) bloke that says something deserving, since alot of what you say is deserving and I don't like stroking............people, yeah.

I found when I was new on the forums, vets did not like new posters having their own opinion, and when new posters expressed, and then held onto their opinions, a new poster was neg rep'd pretty hard, just for having and expressing their own opinion the same way alot of vets feel they can do. It is just that new players/posters are not supposed to be expressive of their opinions.

Man, the heat is getting to me today. Time for the slip and slide outside so I can make sense of what I am trying to sensibly say.

[Mellkor]

Meh.

If you don't get neg repped every now and again, yer doing something wrong!!

:D

[Rumbaar]

Received a reply today apologising for the delay but assuring me that the matter will be fully investigated. I am hoping that it is resolved prior to my payment date next month.Wow you got a response. Well you necro'd this thread and I received a negative for my comments in here from weeks ago.

Good luck with your investigation.

I wont even bother asking for a review from Turbine.

[Phemt81]

The system works fine.

Wow, you are the first one i read saying that! :eek:

And nice quad-posting :D

[Lleren]

So just to clarify you consider 'self appointed judges' to be name calling/abusive?




Standard, not rule? Who's standard, mine?




Is that an accusation?




Do you consider neg repping as bullying? If not you are just making an assumption what you would consider name calling under different circumstances. I would suggest its hard to deal in counterfactuals.

You seem to be trying to break this up into bits.
Online tone depends on the reader. Red Boxes happen. I would be hard pressed to see red boxing me as bullying, but I can see some would. Much like I can see some would consider "self appointed judges" to be name calling, many of those some would be the same folks.

Some posters claim they where neg repped for fairly inoffensive posts.
Dev quotage has been seen claiming many of those posters to be lying, and if a lie, a way to farm positive rep.
Several posters mentioned they like to neg rep the previous posters for reputation fishing afterwords.
Not going to try and find the dev quotage or rules, trying to make it simpler to understand where the red is coming from. It happens this way. It is a recognisable standard among the forum posters.

I use a differnet standard, the "maybe I should report this standard". This is another of the recognisable standards for much neg rep recieved. Though I do like to neg rep for certain gamer dialect forms of name caling: noob, elitist, etcetera.


Edit:

Meh.

If you don't get neg repped every now and again, yer doing something wrong!!

:D
This is likely true as well.

[Skavenaps]

i actually like to be neg rep. yeah, really.

Peeps things that is youtube or facebook, aka like it / dont like it.

if that makes they feel better bulling peeps go ahead. neg rep me. i will not care less.

[Emizand]

Online tone depends on the reader. Red Boxes happen. I would be hard pressed to see red boxing me as bullying, but I can see some would. Much like I can see some would consider "self appointed judges" to be name calling, many of those some would be the same folks.

Yeah this is just a differance of opinion and when I am talking about bullying I am talking about extreme cases like the ones cited by Chai. Under no circumstances would I consider "self appointed judges" to be name calling, but have to accept that others may.



Several posters mentioned they like to neg rep the previous posters for reputation fishing afterwords.
Not going to try and find the dev quotage or rules, trying to make it simpler to understand where the red is coming from. It happens this way. It is a recognisable standard among the forum posters.

Again this is a judgement call. I have mentioned recieving neg rep in this thread and I can assure you that I was not fishing for pos rep, but honestly shocked that (what I believed to be an inoffensive post) neg rep was given.



I use a differnet standard, the "maybe I should report this standard". This is another of the recognisable standards for much neg rep recieved. Though I do like to neg rep for certain gamer dialect forms of name caling: noob, elitist, etcetera.

I can agree that if a post needs to be reported it should be, should it be negged as well, honestly dont know. I dont think I would ever neg rep someone for using noob or elitist, but as I said we are all different.

Also if people were aware a person had recieved neg rep for a post they may not add more themselves. For example you read a post and think thats slightly out of order I am going to neg it, would the fact that they had already been hit for a couple of hundred neg change your mind? When this thread started I didnt have that much of an opinion about the rep system, but through the course of this thread I am developing my understanding and opinion.

P.S. Sorry about the breaking it up thing, I think its just the way I process information.

[Skavenaps]

i actually like to be neg rep. yeah, really.

Peeps things that is youtube or facebook, aka like it / dont like it.

if that makes they feel better bulling peeps go ahead. neg rep me. i will not care less.

to prove my point, i have been neg rep for that post.

edit: not 1 time, 3 atm! keep them coming guys!

[Emizand]

to prove my point, i have been neg rep for that post.

edit: not 1 time, 3 atm! keep them coming guys!

How will you feel if it gets to the point where you cant post?

[Skavenaps]

then i will lose my interest into post a community that cant stand the fact an opinion != to trolling or spam.

and if i really really need to post into a forum for some weird thing (cant figure a reason) i will just do a new account.

and tbh, i doubt it works that way.. as you cant just disable your rep when you want.

[joneb1999]

The Mods do. And they have handed out punitive measures to those who've abused the Rep system in the past. But, I doubt highly that they monitor each and every Neg handed out per-day.


So... report any you feel is undeserved. Because if the person handing it out has a track record of doing so for no good reason, they'll answer for it. Now, I'm not saying you should report all Neg Rep - just the ones you feel you got for reasons not in accordance with the rules. I've gotten Negged when I know I deserved it, and I don't report those. Doing that would slow things down for legit complaints, and sour the Devs on the whole appeals thing.

Just sayin'. :)

Unfortunately there are those who think its their right based on free speech to be nasty, insulting and some that dont even realise they are being like this or that even though it may be fine in their social group it is not acceptable in "polite" society. I wouldn't be surprised at them reporting every neg rep.

[Lleren]

I think if posters where aware of which posts had already recieved positive or negative rep they would be likely to give more of both types.

I have been around online gaming a long time, and in my experience once someone starts throwing around the slang noob or elitist, they are often just using them to mean other "filtered" words. Just really tired of that false divide, much like other false divides like hardcore/casual, zerger/flowersniffer.

I don't think rep either way is a big deal, its less communication then a harsh or happy expression on someones face as they glance at you on a crowded street. Some of the green I don't know why I have. All the red I have deserved, at least in the last year or so. Give it out, neg rep that person that farted in the elevator, thumbs up the one who points out the absurd, or gives good answers to questions.

Edit: Skave, disabling rep just disables the display of it, and the notification you get when you recieve rep of either color.
Someone who gives you rep either way, can still how many green or red boxes you have.

[Emizand]

I think if posters where aware of which posts had already recieved positive or negative rep they would be likely to give more of both types.

Which I see as a problem. Overall my opinion is now that the rep system could be a positive but needs an overhaul.



I have been around online gaming a long time, and in my experience once someone starts throwing around the slang noob or elitist, they are often just using them to mean other "filtered" words.

Personally I would think a minority use this tactic.



Just really tired of that false divide, much like other false divides like hardcore/casual, zerger/flowersniffer.

Total agreement


Thanks for the input Lleren its been useful.

[Uska]

How will you feel if it gets to the point where you cant post?

seen people with a red bar about as long as mine is green and they were still posting

[Dysmetria]

How will you feel if it gets to the point where you cant post?Things getting to the point where one is unable to post is not exactly a deterrent when you can make as many accounts to post with as you want for free.

[Sleepsalot]

Really this is not true at all
From http://www.ddo.com/community/1059-ddo-community-guidelines

Sleeps :D :) :D


16. Users are entitled to one primary Community account for posting on the Community Sites. Players who are found posting from more than one account may be asked to declare a primary account and posting privileges will be removed from all other accounts. Secondary accounts created for the purpose of trolling or otherwise violating these Community Guidelines may result in the permanent ban of any and all associated Community and Game accounts, at the Turbine Community Team's discretion.


Things getting to the point where one is unable to post is not exactly a deterrent when you can make as many accounts to post with as you want for free.

[Memnir]

I wouldn't be surprised at them reporting every neg rep.Then let em.
It just brings their behavior to the attention of the Mods all the quicker. Better yet, they literally bring it upon themselves. :)