3 new dungeons, is it enough?

[Brannigan]

Thoughts?

[grodon9999]

it depends on the Dungeons.

[wootvenu]

not enough for me.

Also if the 2 raids are like hox/vod no flagging type, then its a flop show.

However I am very much looking forward to surprise me.

Edit: Neg repped for my opinion?

[Grosbeak07]

3 Dungeons + 2 Raids and a wilderness is a fair amount. The vale was only a little more, 5 quests and 1 raid + Open area, if its done well, it will be enough to tide people over until the next update.

[Xenostrata]

My first thought is "no".

My second thought is "yes".

Note that they explicitly said 3 new "dungeons," not 3 new quests. I'm forseeing a Tangleroot equivalent in which we get 5+ quests set in 3 large dungeons. I think it'll end up being a Vale sized pack in order to start the new quest Cannith quest chain, with large number of quests, several raids, and a large explorer area.

Edit: too lazy to look up the old vague pre-pre-release notes. Have other ones said "quests" or "dungeons"?

[Hendrik]

Yes.

If there were more Dungeons and less Raids, people would complain.
If there were more Raids and less Dungeons, people would complain.
If we had just Dungeons, people would complain no Raids.
If there were lower level, people would complain they were not end-game.

Give people what they want; end-game content, raids, new class, and they will complain.

;)

[Cyr]

For a big release no of course it's not enough.

It's not like these updates are coming out super fast here.

[Danmor]

What Hendrik said :)

Let's first see what it actually is before we make too much of a fuss. The last few updates were fun, i'm sure they'll manage to make this one fun as well.

[Alkindus]

Beautiful update IMO, 2 high end raids, 3 dungeons, AND a new class.. certainly enough. Well done Turbine.

[Arnhelm]

Yes.

If there were more Dungeons and less Raids, people would complain.
If there were more Raids and less Dungeons, people would complain.
If we had just Dungeons, people would complain no Raids.
If there were lower level, people would complain they were not end-game.

Give people what they want; end-game content, raids, new class, and they will complain.

;)
Amen! from the choir :)

[somenewnoob]

The thing that will make it awesome, is if all 3 are like the Coal Chamber.

With protecting somebody like Coyle inside.

One can dream......

[Cyr]

The thing that will make it awesome, is if all 3 are like the Coal Chamber.

With protecting somebody like Coyle inside.

One can dream......

lol, and Coyle constantly jumps down the shaft getting respawns of bats that trigger red alert...

[somenewnoob]

lol, and Coyle constantly jumps down the shaft getting respawns of bats that trigger red alert...

That was EXACTLY how I was picturing it!!

lol

[Seikojin]

3 'dungeons' + 2 raids + wilderness = more than the recent 4 quests/pack that have been going around. So yeah.

[grodon9999]

I'm betting the "two raids" are more like VoN and Titan.

No word on this being Epic or is it more like Tower?

[Schmoe]

3 Dungeons + 2 Raids and a wilderness is a fair amount. The vale was only a little more, 5 quests and 1 raid + Open area, if its done well, it will be enough to tide people over until the next update.

The Vale pack was actually two wilderness areas (the Sub and the Vale), five dungeons, and three raids. So, yeah, it was quite a bit bigger.

Anyway, I'm fairly happy with the amount of content that they are releasing, considering everything else that is supposedly coming. That assumes that the two raids are actually substantial raids and not one-room-wonders.

[kernal42]

Note that they explicitly said 3 new "dungeons," not 3 new quests. I'm forseeing a Tangleroot equivalent in which we get 5+ quests set in 3 large dungeons. I think it'll end up being a Vale sized pack in order to start the new quest Cannith quest chain, with large number of quests, several raids, and a large explorer area.


Unlikely. Press releases like to exaggerate things, not underplay them. While the wording is slightly ambiguous, it's probably not the case that they deliberately wrote "3 new dungeons" instead of "15 new quests." The latter obviously sounds better and more exciting, which is the entire goal of a press release.

-Kernal

[Quikster]

The Vale pack was actually two wilderness areas (the Sub and the Vale), five dungeons, and three raids. So, yeah, it was quite a bit bigger.

Anyway, I'm fairly happy with the amount of content that they are releasing, considering everything else that is supposedly coming. That assumes that the two raids are actually substantial raids and not one-room-wonders.

The vale and sub were separate releases.

Two raids, wilderness, 3 dungeons, a new class, and more crafting levels sounds like a large enough release to me.

The question is will it be a good one ;)

[kernal42]

No word on this being Epic or is it more like Tower?

It sounds like Turbine doesn't like to release high-level content that also has an epic setting, which is reasonable.

The obvious solution, of course, is content which only has an epic setting.

Also, they may still be uncomfortable with the state of epic quests and unwilling to release more epic content until they're happy with how epic works - after all, anything they release now is just more work for them in case of a future epic re-vamp.

-Kernal

[Grosbeak07]

The Vale pack was actually two wilderness areas (the Sub and the Vale), five dungeons, and three raids. So, yeah, it was quite a bit bigger.

Anyway, I'm fairly happy with the amount of content that they are releasing, considering everything else that is supposedly coming. That assumes that the two raids are actually substantial raids and not one-room-wonders.


Sub T came after Vale. They are just packaged together now.

[benneburg]

The Vale pack was actually two wilderness areas (the Sub and the Vale), five dungeons, and three raids. So, yeah, it was quite a bit bigger.

Is now, wasn't then. The Subterranean was added after the Vale and later those two got combined.

Edit: Beaten several times.


benne^

[killerzee25]

Dungeon could mean a quest series all taking place in the same dungeon like tangleroot.

[Jahmin]

more crafting levels sounds like a large enough release to me

As crafting to 150 was done before the previous nerfdate, it hardly seems credible that it counts as part of the next update :(

[Tenchi]

Its never going to be enough for us players, but I think we should look at how Turbine does these things.

They release them in small groups of quests. Sure its three quests and two new raids, but we have to not that there is going to be more things for us. I am guessing more House C quests and of course maybe the Mabar event, reinvented. Or maybe something new.

We should just enjoy it. I think the raids will have us grinding for a while.

[Primalhowl]

For a big release no of course it's not enough.

It's not like these updates are coming out super fast here.

Seriously? They've been averaging something like 3-4 quests every ~2 months for the past 2 years. That's faster than lightspeed for most MMOs.

[stille_nacht]

Seriously? They've been averaging something like 3-4 quests every ~2 months for the past 2 years. That's faster than lightspeed for most MMOs.

some people are unable to translate the 2 hour quest into coding in there minds, so dont know how mind boggling the work is :P

anyway, ddo is probably the only mmo that updates this regularly...

[elraido]

Seriously? They've been averaging something like 3-4 quests every ~2 months for the past 2 years. That's faster than lightspeed for most MMOs.

You do remember the year of nothing, right? :D

[arch0njw]

Yes.

If there were more Dungeons and less Raids, people would complain.
If there were more Raids and less Dungeons, people would complain.
If we had just Dungeons, people would complain no Raids.
If there were lower level, people would complain they were not end-game.

Give people what they want; end-game content, raids, new class, and they will complain.

;)

^ Ayuh.

[Shade]

It's about what was expected ..

Well it was 4 dungeons + 1 raid expected.. Perhaps they upgraded one dungeon from 6 man to 12man.

Either way. .Ye olde days of DDOs modules = huge winderness area + 10 dungeons + a raid + lvl cap increase + tons more (module 4...) for a major release are long dead =/

Youd think with the seposed increase in revenue theyd hire more devs and produce more content.. But nah seems like they are sticking the same small team.

So for a small team, it's about whats expected.

[Cyr]

Seriously? They've been averaging something like 3-4 quests every ~2 months for the past 2 years. That's faster than lightspeed for most MMOs.

There have been two updates so far this year. So yes I am serious.

[Seikojin]

There have been two updates so far this year. So yes I am serious.

If you are talking fiscal year, then yeah, two updates that added content, but it is still early into that. But for 2011, I know of three quest sets that have been released at least. And crafting. And releasing 4 updates per year, or even 6, is a LOT better than other products out there. So this seems fine to me.

[Cyr]

If you are talking fiscal year, then yeah, two updates that added content, but it is still early into that. But for 2011, I know of three quest sets that have been released at least. And crafting. And releasing 4 updates per year, or even 6, is a LOT better than other products out there. So this seems fine to me.

I am talking about in this calendar year.

Update 8 was in december of last year.

Update 9 was the first update of released in this calender year.

[grodon9999]

It sounds like Turbine doesn't like to release high-level content that also has an epic setting, which is reasonable.

The obvious solution, of course, is content which only has an epic setting.

Also, they may still be uncomfortable with the state of epic quests and unwilling to release more epic content until they're happy with how epic works - after all, anything they release now is just more work for them in case of a future epic re-vamp.

-Kernal

I'm hoping it scales like Tower.

[Seikojin]

I am talking about in this calendar year.

Update 8 was in december of last year.

Update 9 was the first update of released in this calender year.

Ok, so by december, 4 updates with content. A minimum of 12 quests...

So which, free to play, or even paid mmo gives you updates that add new features on top of quests 4 times a year?

[Cyr]

Ok, so by december, 4 updates with content. A minimum of 12 quests...

So which, free to play, or even paid mmo gives you updates that add new features on top of quests 4 times a year?

12 quests sounds pretty poor to me.

Jeez, the GH release alone had eleven quests and orchard released in that same year...

[JakLee7]

Thats the rub though, Vale, Orchard, GH, Desert even - there were flagging quests & side quests (well no real side quests in Vale) as well as some kind of adventure (ie explorer) area. There was some basic collecting/farming mechanisms that meant you wanted to rerun some stuff, good items in the quests, great items if you are lucky or farm it long enough. First time through, GH was EPIC on elite and I think that is what alot of the old hands are looking for.... the wilderness of Amarath was good, but the quests don't hold up & the raid imho is done spot on.

3 quests is not NEARLY enough, though 2 raids is almost perfect (would like to see 3, I think that is the best you can ask for as it would be enough to keep people busy for awhile & whatnot). However, if they are well designed quests, the three they gave us may tide us over a bit and more high level content is greatly appreciated.

Hopefully the quests are good enough for something more than just flagging though.

The only thing that really bothers me about this though, it is likely going be MORE constructs.... I would like to see a raid/high end content that isn't Undead/Demon-Devil/Construct (the xoriat was a good call) - Give me another dragon, give a mad archon (oh you know you want it), give me a frikken landshark with LAZERBEAMS on it's head..... give me something new.

still, got me excited non-the-less.... and as for previous posters, I wouldn't mind 1 of the two being another hound/vod raid where you get to boss & fight.... those are fun too sometimes.

[Malethus]

Yes.

If there were more Dungeons and less Raids, people would complain.
If there were more Raids and less Dungeons, people would complain.
If we had just Dungeons, people would complain no Raids.
If there were lower level, people would complain they were not end-game.

Give people what they want; end-game content, raids, new class, and they will complain.

;)

This, I am pretty happy, they are also releasing a new house, and they have already released a few adventure packs this year, also once they release it they have to balance gameplay/iron out any bugs etc. I am pretty happy with the rate devs are rolling out the new content.

[Ganak]

Too early to say...


But wow, TWO raids:D

[Nagantor]

At least Constructs as likely mobs will not be Holy+Silver mobs again and rogues wanted to make them suspectible to crits as otherwise all those Khopeshes out there are not the best there. Of course, portal beaters mean that most will have some good weapons already.
About the amount of stuff: number of quests, raids and explorer areas tell you very little. They can go from very short to very long with lots optional parts and that's a really huge span...

[Xioden]

The only thing that really bothers me about this though, it is likely going be MORE constructs.... I would like to see a raid/high end content that isn't Undead/Demon-Devil/Construct (the xoriat was a good call) - Give me another dragon, give a mad archon (oh you know you want it), give me a frikken landshark with LAZERBEAMS on it's head..... give me something new.

I believe Jon Peters still works with/for Warner Bros., so it could be a giant construct spider!

[Emizand]

My first thought is "no".

My second thought is "yes".



Was your 3rd thought that you used to be indecisive but you arent sure anymore?

[Emizand]

Yes.

If there were more Dungeons and less Raids, people would complain.
If there were more Raids and less Dungeons, people would complain.
If we had just Dungeons, people would complain no Raids.
If there were lower level, people would complain they were not end-game.

Give people what they want; end-game content, raids, new class, and they will complain.

;)

+1 rep sir/madam

[Gremmlynn]

It's about what was expected ..

Well it was 4 dungeons + 1 raid expected.. Perhaps they upgraded one dungeon from 6 man to 12man.

Either way. .Ye olde days of DDOs modules = huge winderness area + 10 dungeons + a raid + lvl cap increase + tons more (module 4...) for a major release are long dead =/

Youd think with the seposed increase in revenue theyd hire more devs and produce more content.. But nah seems like they are sticking the same small team.

So for a small team, it's about whats expected.Easier to sell smaller packs would be my guess. Everything since Amrath, which was likely a ways along in development before the whole F2P thing was even thought of, has been in nice little bite sized <600TP packs.

[Hollowgolem]

Easier to sell smaller packs would be my guess. Everything since Amrath, which was likely a ways along in development before the whole F2P thing was even thought of, has been in nice little bite sized <600TP packs.

This is important to keep in mind.

DDO's business model has changed, and little nuggets (notice even the last 4 updates are really only two quest chains broken up into more bite-sized chunks) are the order of business now.

It's different when you have only subscribers, but when you need to get your f2p players (or Premmies, like me) to pony up, the smaller, more frequent updates make more sense from a business perspective.

And I have no problem with Turbine running their business like it's a business. It's their business what they do with their business. So long as they keep putting out a quality product, which they have since I started playing.

[Shade]

Easier to sell smaller packs would be my guess. Everything since Amrath, which was likely a ways along in development before the whole F2P thing was even thought of, has been in nice little bite sized <600TP packs.

Smaller packs more often would be fine with me if the total content we got was the same.. Just isn't the case sadly.

M3 rls: oct 25, 06
M4 rls: apr 12, 07
Dev time: Lil under 6 months

U9 rls (U10 was already done since there was no patch for it): april 27, 11
U11 rls: LATE sept
Dev time: 5 months

11q/6month = 1.83 quests a month

5q/5months = 1 quest a month

obviously not 100% accurate figures since much gets developed side by side or out of order.. But the numbers are significant different enough, and consistanly different enough to tell thing have slowed down.

I also don't think anyone in there right mind would say U9/10 contents could hold a candle to the awesomness that was M4.. Lets hope U11 is different.

[GeneralDiomedes]

How many dungeons is a new class equivalent to, I wonder?

[Hollowgolem]

Smaller packs more often would be fine with me if the total content we got was the same.. Just isn't the case sadly.

M3 rls: oct 25, 06
M4 rls: apr 12, 07
Dev time: Lil under 6 months

U9 rls (U10 was already done since there was no patch for it): april 27, 11
U11 rls: LATE sept
Dev time: 5 months

11q/6month = 1.83 quests a month

5q/5months = 1 quest a month

obviously not 100% accurate figures since much gets developed side by side or out of order.. But the numbers are significant different enough, and consistanly different enough to tell thing have slowed down.

I also don't think anyone in there right mind would say U9/10 contents could hold a candle to the awesomness that was M4.. Lets hope U11 is different.

Mod4? Reaver? The only interesting quests in that bunch are PoP, Crucible, MoM, and the pre-raid/raid, and I'd say -each and every one- of the new quests is significantly better than each of even those good quests (sans maybe Crucible, I love Crucible).

[Shade]

Mod4? Reaver? The only interesting quests in that bunch are PoP, Crucible, MoM, and the pre-raid/raid, and I'd say -each and every one- of the new quests is significantly better than each of even those good quests (sans maybe Crucible, I love Crucible).

eh 2009..

Everythings better when its fresh. When gianthold was fresh, it wasn't just like u10.. Day1: Oh yea lets run the new quests.. And some ppl did it, while 95% of the rest of server did different things.
Day2: What U10? huh been there done that. (no reply value imo)

EVERYONE ran gianthold 24/7. It was that good.

Content doesn't always age well unforunately. So the new quests may be better balanced to todays characters, but I dont think that takes away from what they were to many of us.

[Hollowgolem]

I mean the quests as quests, as adventures.

Most of the GH quests are boring "run through this cave and kill the big guy" quests. The newer ones have added more interesting twists to that (Sane Asylum wins first prize in that category, though I'm also a fan of Lord of Eyes in that respect, and the other quests are all -interesting-, sans Lord of Stone).

[Zirun]

It's never enough. People always want more.

Always.

Always.

(It's enough for me, though, especially since I won't be buying the pack and time soon, lol. :D)

[Shade]

I mean the quests as quests, as adventures.

Most of the GH quests are boring "run through this cave and kill the big guy" quests. The newer ones have added more interesting twists to that (Sane Asylum wins first prize in that category, though I'm also a fan of Lord of Eyes in that respect, and the other quests are all -interesting-, sans Lord of Stone).

Which quest is that?
Gianthold quests all have side paths, most of have nice traps, all have optionals usually worth doing. I think the one quest that closest matches a straight forward hack and slash to the end is madstone. A much loved quest for that reason.

The rest have just as much ingenuity and surprisese compared to all that new junk.. Scratch that, gianthold if anything has far far more. Plus this is freakin DDO. Theres only one adventure pack in the game where you can experience that 2nd D in the name (note the plural), and its gianthold (Tor specificily)

Sane asylum was fun to do the first time, and yea the change of pace to guarding ...furniture.. was interesting. But it lacks any kind of replay value to make it truely great like the gianthold quests. Given the XP sucks, and loot while reasonable in terms of trash loot, is forgetable and too easy to get the few named items with there insane 20000% drop rate (was like 14 watchers blade drops the last time i ran that lol).
I think it was by far the best quest out of the bunch in u10 too.. Rest might of had a couple unique things, but they are all otherwise quite forgetable to me and something im not likely to care to run again, unlike GH.

Even tho im sick of GH by now aftering running it all 90 billion times. It's at least still worth doing.

Said it before.. Epic GH. Give.

[Produktion_Malphunktion]

I mean the quests as quests, as adventures.

Most of the GH quests are boring "run through this cave and kill the big guy" quests. The newer ones have added more interesting twists to that (Sane Asylum wins first prize in that category, though I'm also a fan of Lord of Eyes in that respect, and the other quests are all -interesting-, sans Lord of Stone).

I completely agree. I can do kill quests in any game, but it is a rare moment that I get puked out by a Beholder. I think it is exciting times, and we have dev's in the MMO space that are thinking WAY outside the box. Sane Asylum/Delirium 2 could stand alone in any single player RPG game. I cannot think of a single mission in the MMO space that compares in creativity to those two. Personally I want the missions to feel more like...well, missions and less like 1st edition DnD sweep and clear dungeons. Do you really want to play Keep on the Borderlands, or do you want to play Tomb of Horrors? I'll take the latter, and yes I may only play it a few times, and not grind out for gear, but sometimes it is the experience that is the reward, not the foozle at the end.
Sorry you don't enjoy them Shade, but hope you stick around for the ride. I think the next few years are going to kick ass.

[TreknaQudane]

Sorry you don't enjoy them Shade, but hope you stick around for the ride. I think the next few years are going to kick ass.
Thank you for not saying 'Kick Axe'

[Elaril]

I mean the quests as quests, as adventures.

Most of the GH quests are boring "run through this cave and kill the big guy" quests. The newer ones have added more interesting twists to that (Sane Asylum wins first prize in that category, though I'm also a fan of Lord of Eyes in that respect, and the other quests are all -interesting-, sans Lord of Stone).

Gianthold absolutely ***** on the Update 10 quests. It is definately top two or three in terms of post-initial release modules/updates, and it's not even really close. I've, personally gotten years of replay value out of that area. I ran the U-10 quests only a couple of times before I became bored with them.

In my opinion, there hasn't really been a good, in terms of my enjoyablity, content release since Amrath. There is no need for all the psychobilly gimics that have gone on recently.

[Seikojin]

I completely agree. I can do kill quests in any game, but it is a rare moment that I get puked out by a Beholder. I think it is exciting times, and we have dev's in the MMO space that are thinking WAY outside the box. Sane Asylum/Delirium 2 could stand alone in any single player RPG game. I cannot think of a single mission in the MMO space that compares in creativity to those two. Personally I want the missions to feel more like...well, missions and less like 1st edition DnD sweep and clear dungeons. Do you really want to play Keep on the Borderlands, or do you want to play Tomb of Horrors? I'll take the latter, and yes I may only play it a few times, and not grind out for gear, but sometimes it is the experience that is the reward, not the foozle at the end.
Sorry you don't enjoy them Shade, but hope you stick around for the ride. I think the next few years are going to kick ass.

I think the bigger grind on peoples sanity is having to grind as much as they do for the items they want.

More interestingly enough, why is there more than one Sword of Shadows on a server? Why not make these limited to 1 per server. Tied to pcharacter activity. If the character is off long enough, then their item becomes greyd out/not useable until the current active one is inactive.

Despite what people think, it is possible and easy to code in.

It would be a very powerful item if that was the case. Mobs all over would have to be rebalanced because suddenly, named items would become a true power in the game to be revered.

They could have a higher drop rate, or lower drop rate. But they should be worth the grind.

Right now, everyone grinds for certain items and obtain them just to be on par with the challenge.

Ok, /rant.

[Angelus_dead]

More interestingly enough, why is there more than one Sword of Shadows on a server? Why not make these limited to 1 per server.
The answer to that question is really easy to figure out.

You can probably get it on your own. For a hint, count up the number of times Velah has been killed on your server, and check if it is more than one.

[PurdueDave]

While certainly unique, Acute Delirium and Sane Asylum are, IMO, too much like a cartoon for my taste.

Of the newer quests I'd count Assault on Summerfield as my favorite. I like the open layout feel and the heroic tone.

I was also generally impressed by the creepiness of the Harbinger series.

[Grosbeak07]

There is no reason why the game can't have multiple styles. The game would get really boring if all of the quests where of one style (see Lotro/WoW/Most Console Games). There is good and bad in every quest pack, I personally choose to look at what is good and ignore what isn't, because there are people out there who might enjoy what I don't.

[suitepotato]

What I want to see is a training/testing quest area that scales 1-25, and populates with monsters accordingly, for solo, group, and raid group sizes. It needs decent loot, an explorer area, new monsters, named items, and a good randomizing system. Something like the orchard, but with everything subject to randomly rearranging on every initialization. Maybe a maze or two, open to the sky like the third part of the shroud, with puzzles and randomly changing layout. Make the goals chain-like across levels. That is, beat it at 1-4 and you still have to come back and do 5-8, then 9-12, and so on.

The Shroud was supposed to be where the giants sent their warriors to train, but we kick its backside constantly. We need something that might kick our backsides a bit more often, and something worth following through across levels 1 to 20.

Another approach would be to have the existing explorer areas scale. That is, group levels 1-4, 5-8, etc. and generate instances populated accordingly. Imagine going back to Tangleroot with lvl20s and finding a small army of beholders now rampaging.

[butlerfamilywa]

And yet no one comments on the "Restless Isle's" series..

This is a construct based release, yet we all forget to comment about the Titan series.. come on now..

3 quests, 2 raids, that is all it was. Granted one was a Pre-Raid, but it was still a 12 man group.

Also the Vault of Night pack, is a total of 4 dungeons, and 2 raids... (Granted, a lot of us started playing this series before it was ever a pack..)


I forsee 3 quests required to flag for a quest, then another manufacturing plant to be cleared with puzzles to complete, to kill another WF Titan - esq type raid series, it is the only thing I could really say it sounds like.

Though Artifacier would be nice to have around for those who don't want to splash Rogue to the character, and still do traps ;) Like us lawful classes. Ya know, since Rogues are supposted to be lawless in flavor.

[butlerfamilywa]

Another approach would be to have the existing explorer areas scale. That is, group levels 1-4, 5-8, etc. and generate instances populated accordingly. Imagine going back to Tangleroot with lvl20s and finding a small army of beholders now rampaging.

This 'Idea' Is currently in play, just not on a very large scale at all (Devil's Assault)... I've completed this quest over 100 times on my Arcane, across all difficulties, and I am still receiving exp for it. Though many people only see this quest as a loot run.

[pasterqb]

The question i am concerned with is are 2 raids better than 1?

My prediction is it will be a Hox/Vod type deal which are moderatly fun raids but Shroud>Vod/Hox combined and ToD> Vod/Hox combined. Here is to hoping for a shroud type raid seeing as how its in a crafting house.

[butlerfamilywa]

Sadly I fore see a Restless Isles/Vault of Night raid setup, 1 pre-raid, and 1 main raid.. :(

[apep1412]

Theres only one adventure pack in the game where you can experience that 2nd D in the name (note the plural), and its gianthold (Tor specificily)

Those are interesting ways to spell Reaver's Reach and Prey on the Hunter (the only pack, and specifically quest, where you can fight more than one dragon at one time).

[ainmosni]

Sorry you don't enjoy them Shade, but hope you stick around for the ride. I think the next few years are going to kick ass.

REPORTED

and shade, as far as dragons (plural) goes, reavers refuge has a couple....

also, let's not forget that the "sorjek working with the truthful one the draco-lich to create an army of undead dragons to fend off the stormreaver and his army of giants and something about some quori mixed in there or something but an epic undead dragon army vs a bunch of awesome giants battle is immanent at some point" story arc is not yet complete ;)

i'd be willing to bet IF epic gianthold actually got released, it'd be an appetizer for ^ that.

[Kakashi67]

I dislike Gianthold.

There....I said it.

I do it because I have to.

The quests are blah and the story never did make sense.

What a shock...more double-crossing. Didn't see that coming.

I do enjoy the newer quests. I also like the humor that has been put into some of the quests. I look forward to running those and getting away from the orcs/ogres/giants/trolls we've fought since stepping foot into the Harbor.

[DragonKiller]

Which quest is that?
Gianthold quests all have side paths, most of have nice traps, all have optionals usually worth doing. I think the one quest that closest matches a straight forward hack and slash to the end is madstone. A much loved quest for that reason.

The rest have just as much ingenuity and surprisese compared to all that new junk.. Scratch that, gianthold if anything has far far more. Plus this is freakin DDO. Theres only one adventure pack in the game where you can experience that 2nd D in the name (note the plural), and its gianthold (Tor specificily)

Sane asylum was fun to do the first time, and yea the change of pace to guarding ...furniture.. was interesting. But it lacks any kind of replay value to make it truely great like the gianthold quests. Given the XP sucks, and loot while reasonable in terms of trash loot, is forgetable and too easy to get the few named items with there insane 20000% drop rate (was like 14 watchers blade drops the last time i ran that lol).
I think it was by far the best quest out of the bunch in u10 too.. Rest might of had a couple unique things, but they are all otherwise quite forgetable to me and something im not likely to care to run again, unlike GH.

Even tho im sick of GH by now aftering running it all 90 billion times. It's at least still worth doing.

Said it before.. Epic GH. Give.

/signed

Sorry, but these new quest like Shade said are interesting... once. Unless well... you have your medical marijuana card. Dude... that was my skull... I'm sooo wasted.

[Hollowgolem]

Which quest is that?
Gianthold quests all have side paths, most of have nice traps, all have optionals usually worth doing. I think the one quest that closest matches a straight forward hack and slash to the end is madstone. A much loved quest for that reason.


Dude, Madstone's an ESCORT MISSION (albeit, an easy one). That's -worse- than a hack-n-slash!

I'm talking about Trial by Fire, Cabal, Feast, Foundation. and Cry.

Hell, Foundation and Trial are almost -identical- mechanically, except you're killing dorfs instead of twols.

[Kakashi67]

Dude, Madstone's an ESCORT MISSION (albeit, an easy one). That's -worse- than a hack-n-slash!

I'm talking about Trial by Fire, Cabal, Feast, Foundation. and Cry.

Hell, Foundation and Trial are almost -identical- mechanically, except you're killing dorfs instead of twols.

They're all the same...only the monsters change.

At least Maze is different...yet the same. :/

[ainmosni]

I dislike Gianthold.

There....I said it.

I do it because I have to.

The quests are blah and the story never did make sense.

What a shock...more double-crossing. Didn't see that coming.

I do enjoy the newer quests. I also like the humor that has been put into some of the quests. I look forward to running those and getting away from the orcs/ogres/giants/trolls we've fought since stepping foot into the Harbor.

: OOO

BLASPHEMY

nah, the story arcs in this game make sense..... they just arent well-explained.

it's like "ok hmm. stormreaver, cool... join the stormfist what? <enter><enter><enter><enter><enter><enter>QUEST BESTOWED"

it took forever to figure out what the hell was going on in the VON series, just because the people i zerg with on a daily basis and i are more interested in xp/min or epic ingredients than reading 500 pages of text.

take the time to solo the quests, or at least read what the quest giver has to say, and put the pieces together based on what you've seen the first 1000 times you've run the quest.

the stories in this game are fantastic. they just don't translate well lol.

i STILL dont get why the stormreaver randomly tried to blow up his own fort, then decided "this is stupid, fix it for me, AFK" at the last minute. but the rest of gianthold's lore is pretty cool.

[DeltaBravo]

we just had a pack with some high lvl quests. Not really end end game but still now they offer 2 more raids and 3 quests . i think that is more then eough also with all the other stuff they put in, new class higher crafting lvl, i think its good enough. and i would love to see no flagging raids, i hate flagging for the queen each time i want to play it on epic. just a waste of time.


cheers
DB

[GeneralDiomedes]

Do you really want to play Keep on the Borderlands, or do you want to play Tomb of Horrors? I'll take the latter, and yes I may only play it a few times, and not grind out for gear, but sometimes it is the experience that is the reward, not the foozle at the end.

This statement actually worries me a bit.

The hack'n'slash is still fun because combat is fun. Well designed mob encounters which test your resources, reflexes, multitasking skills and tickle your visual cortex are still the most entertainment you can have in this game, because it is so fast paced.

Novelty has one fatal flaw: it wears off. I suppose as long as the devs continue to make a variety of quests like they have up until now, and not get too "cute" for their own good, DDO will retain its appeal to gamers of all stripes.

[oradafu]

Though Artifacier would be nice to have around for those who don't want to splash Rogue to the character, and still do traps ;) Like us lawful classes. Ya know, since Rogues are supposted to be lawless in flavor.

Rogues that do locks and steal things can be lawful. They're called Repo Men.

[dingal]

3 Dungeons + 2 Raids and a wilderness is a fair amount. The vale was only a little more, 5 quests and 1 raid + Open area, if its done well, it will be enough to tide people over until the next update.

This.

It's a bigger pack than Red Fens and any of the subsequent updates (unless you count them all combined) and it comes with 2 raids which is pretty exciting.

Right now the only raids I run are shroud, TOD, EDQ, Von6 and Echrono. I don't enjoy the others.

[Postumus]

The thing that will make it awesome, is if all 3 are like the Coal Chamber.

With protecting somebody like Coyle inside...



... who you have to lure through a maze beneath your feet filled with traps and flesh eating zombies by dropping bits of ham through the holes in the grate...

[Postumus]

The question i am concerned with is are 2 raids better than 1?

My prediction is it will be a Hox/Vod type deal which are moderatly fun raids but Shroud>Vod/Hox combined and ToD> Vod/Hox combined. Here is to hoping for a shroud type raid seeing as how its in a crafting house.

the real question is: will the raids drop large devil scales?

[Kakashi67]

[QUOTE=MajMalphunktion;3976779Do you really want to play Keep on the Borderlands, or do you want to play Tomb of Horrors? I'll take the latter, and yes I may only play it a few times, and not grind out for gear, but sometimes it is the experience that is the reward, not the foozle at the end.[/QUOTE]


I'll take Keep. I never understood the popularity of Tomb.

Better yet, I'll take the Giants/Descent/Demon Queen series.

Mmmmm....Lloth.

Give her an Eberron name and call it good.

[sirgog]

I completely agree. I can do kill quests in any game, but it is a rare moment that I get puked out by a Beholder. I think it is exciting times, and we have dev's in the MMO space that are thinking WAY outside the box. Sane Asylum/Delirium 2 could stand alone in any single player RPG game. I cannot think of a single mission in the MMO space that compares in creativity to those two. Personally I want the missions to feel more like...well, missions and less like 1st edition DnD sweep and clear dungeons. Do you really want to play Keep on the Borderlands, or do you want to play Tomb of Horrors? I'll take the latter, and yes I may only play it a few times, and not grind out for gear, but sometimes it is the experience that is the reward, not the foozle at the end.
Sorry you don't enjoy them Shade, but hope you stick around for the ride. I think the next few years are going to kick ass.

Honestly - I like both types.

Probably my single favorite DDO quest is Inferno of the Damned, which is (IMO) 60% puzzle and 40% combat.

But another great one is Chronoscope (at least on Epic), which is 80% combat and 20% combat-themed unique challenges (like suppressing the CAD's regen, or dodging his more dangerous 'specials').

And on Epic (or at-level Elite), there's nothing quite like the pure hack-and-slashfest of Offering of Blood.

[Shade]

Sorry you don't enjoy them Shade, but hope you stick around for the ride. I think the next few years are going to kick ass.

Never said I didn't enjoy them.

I think they are well done and were worth the couple hours I spent on them. And while five bucks for a couple hours of entertainment is a fair price to me, it just lacks the replay value i've come to like from some content.

Just that I don't think they compare to the quality/scope of some of the major gianthold quests, like Tor where I gladly spent dozens of hours in.

I dunno as funny as it was to have the big beholder swollow us and figure out which chest was the mimic, to me it just can't compare to the awe I was in when I got to face off against not 1, but 3 awesome dragons with very unique fight mechanics (first time I ever seen a boss resurrect a fellow boss during a boss fight, in any game)

Tho im obviously very biased as I really enjoyed the classic much more hardcore DDO more then I enjoy the new style of things.. So even if the quest quality does improve, it's hard for me not to remember how much better the game used to be in my eyes. The only reason im still honestly is because the community hasn't changed, it's as great as ever, and they are what make it fun.

[mystafyi]

Youd think with the seposed increase in revenue theyd hire more devs and produce more content.. But nah seems like they are sticking the same small team.


there has been absolutely zero hard data to confirm that turbine is making tons of money with f2p model. The only info released was some bs about 400% increase in revenue the qtr after turbine went f2p. not a word since then. 400% of bankrupt company is still quite pathetic. Yes, it saved an mmo that was about to fail, but long term sustainability? hah... very doubtful.

now hurry up and send turbine moar money cuz my old vip(now f2p) toons need someone to pay for that bandwidth and operating costs ;)

[Shade]

there has been absolutely zero hard data to confirm that turbine is making tons of money with f2p model.

maybe true about DDO ( doubtful). But im pretty sure they had some press release about there millions of dollars/subscribers/accounts/etc after they did it for LoTro..

So thats enough for me.

I kinda wonder where some of the old devs went tho. I remember devilmouse from all the way back since asherons call.. Anyone know where he went?

[stoerm]

I think the bigger grind on peoples sanity is having to grind as much as they do for the items they want.
<snip>
Right now, everyone grinds for certain items and obtain them just to be on par with the challenge.


Not *everyone* grinds for gear and XP. Like Malphunktion, there are also other players who play this game for enjoyment and the experience. I run the Shroud maybe twice a week on my only Shroud-flagged character, but otherwise try to resist the temptation to grind for named loot.

Strangely enough it's the same people who:

a) Demand they (and others too, to be any good) obtain the best gear
b) Multiple TR their characters
c) Say the quests are too easy
d) Say the game is too grindy

My messages is: you may *want* that item but you don't *need* it. It's not worth killing your enjoyment for the sake of some rare drops.

[mystafyi]

Shade, ya i remember turbine announcement stating that they hit 2 million users. sadly even this accomplishment is muted since it was also stated that that number included active and inactive accounts from 2006-present.

The only hard data i have found was concurrent subscriber data from 3rd/4th qtr of 2009 (pre f2p). This data listed peak concurrent DDO usage at well under 50k.

If the f2p/microtransaction model that ddo/lotro shifted to was so profitable then any company would gladly release subscriber numbers. Unless ofc, their balance sheets looks like the US gov't.

[Auran82]

The problem I see though, is that to do a double TR you have to grind some quests into the ground or be left at the upper levels slowly crawling toward the next level.

I would love to see more exciting and interesting quests that aren't "run to end of dungeon, kill guy" but at the moment I am taking a bit of a break because I am sick of having to run the same quests when levelling. I will probably come back full time in a couple of months and see lots of new stuff, and I hope *something* that will help lessen the grind.

Hopefully when we hear more about the challenge system or whatever it was Fernando called it, it might help in this regard (it sounded like LOTROs skirmish system)

[Shade]

If the f2p/microtransaction model that ddo/lotro shifted to was so profitable then any company would gladly release subscriber numbers.

Not how companies work. Lawyers and stuff dont let them do it for legal reasons and that kinda jive.

But that kind of evidence isn't needed. You have to blind to see the F2P thing isn't huge.. I mean I remembering reading one of the bigwigs from WoW stating they would NEVER go f2p..
Now look at them today.. Even they finally broke down and went F2P (to a degree, which will undoubtedly expand)

Not to mention other massively popular and sucessfull games following suite, even non-mmo ones like Team Fortress 2.

Hell even games long since dead have risen from the grave to give the F2P thing a go.. Notable one I used to play I thought would never return is Hellgate london, which is back from the dead in a F2P form.

Turbine made a ton of money going F2P, and a ton of people are following suite them because they really proove it works.

Not that they were first or anything to come out with microtransactions, but they were first to do it with what started as a 100% serious subscription based mmo and prove it could work as a hybrid model.

[Hollowgolem]

Mmmmm....Lloth.

Give her an Eberron name and call it good.

They did.

It's Vulkoor.

[mystafyi]

Not that they were first or anything to come out with microtransactions, but they were first to do it with what started as a 100% serious subscription based mmo and prove it could work as a hybrid model.

ya thats the stated reason Time Warner bought turbine.
but seriously, the games going f2p are ones that have already reached the end of their shelf life. Great way to squeeze a lil more money from a game for sure. long term revenues? very doubtful. No matter... Im enjoying FREE ddo till 2015 when they must shut down ddo by law ;)

[Kakashi67]

They did.

It's Vulkoor.

Scorpions aren't sexy

Spiders are sexy.

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20070909074008/forgottenrealms/images/thumb/9/9a/Lolth.jpg/178px-Lolth.jpg (http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/index.php?title=Lolth&image=Lolth-jpg)

[grgurius]

My guess would be, 3 flaging quests, 2 raids. One will probably be short one ala hox and vod, while i'm hoping the other one is something along the lines of tod. I just hope Turbine doesn't think that pre raid and raid equals two raids, von and titan are one raid, with boss fight in another instance.

As for the enemies, my guess would be, one with some kind of warforged abomination, other with quori.

[Kakashi67]

Don't forget they've set up a Sora Katra storyline...although I'm guessing that will be a later update.

[sirgog]

I'm hoping to see two raids of vastly different difficulties.

One easier one, comparable difficulty to VOD (i.e. even more casual players can beat it on Elite), and one tough one, that is about the same on Normal as TOD, but that (unlike TOD) scales up a lot with difficulty so that on Elite it's brutal.

I really don't want to see these raids both beaten on Elite on release day.

[kaleid0star]

I highly doubt it but is there a chance part of the update will be f2p or something?

[Razcar]

The only hard data i have found was concurrent subscriber data from 3rd/4th qtr of 2009 (pre f2p). This data listed peak concurrent DDO usage at well under 50k..That "hard data" you are refering to was a wild guesstimate. Turbine doesn't publish (http://forums.ac.turbine.com/showpost.php?p=564286&postcount=5) their subscription numbers - they never did, not for Asheron's call (http://forums.ac.turbine.com/showpost.php?p=69456&postcount=4), not for LoTRO and not for DDO.

Nevertheless, the time just before F2P was an all-time-low for DDO, since Turbine hadn't released any content or information for a long time.


If the f2p/microtransaction model that ddo/lotro shifted to was so profitable then any company would gladly release subscriber numbers. Unless ofc, their balance sheets looks like the US gov't.As said, Turbine never releases subscription numbers.


400% of bankrupt company is still quite pathetic. I think Time Warner will be fine.

[irivan]

there has been absolutely zero hard data to confirm that turbine is making tons of money with f2p model. The only info released was some bs about 400% increase in revenue the qtr after turbine went f2p. not a word since then. 400% of bankrupt company is still quite pathetic. Yes, it saved an mmo that was about to fail, but long term sustainability? hah... very doubtful.

now hurry up and send turbine moar money cuz my old vip(now f2p) toons need someone to pay for that bandwidth and operating costs ;)

Wow this is soooooo, out of left field, you are so off base it caused me to stand in the middle of a conversation with Shade, something i rarely do, but either way, I am laughing at your long term sustainability comment, because this MMO is going on its 6th year and likely will be around for at least a few more, and maybe longer if they can pull of a smooth engine replacement. 6 years in the MMO industry puts you in very very rare company, most don't make it out of 2 sometimes 1, some of the biggest hits of all time closed down sooner. So you keep telling yourself that, just remember these posts, will still be here, so next year when you come out with this, ill link it. lol

[quijenoth]

Thoughts?

If it uses the new Crystal Cove mechanic then I will be more than happy as the replay value will be 10 times that of regular dungeons

[grgurius]

If it uses the new Crystal Cove mechanic then I will be more than happy as the replay value will be 10 times that of regular dungeons

Please no, CC scaling was a complete failure.

Same dungeon, same mobs, with few mob stats changing trough the difficulties, no ty.

[Shade]

I really don't want to see these raids both beaten on Elite on release day.

Me neither but I feel like thats a pipedream these days.

Unless its outright bugged or has some severely broken mechanic.. It certainly will be.

Theres just nothing they can throw at us combat wise to stop us these days that wont just straight aggrevating for lesser players, and thats what they care about.

With the unlimited mana pots and crazy stats we can manage at the top end, elite literally has to seem utterly impossible for average players who are severely challenged on normal.. The gap is just too large these days, elite needs to be something crazy like 30 times harder then normal to have any sense of challenge for the maxxed out players.

Thus why we need heavy tiering, and we need epic if they really want to challenge us.

Im gona crush both of them tomorow night if its up and available on lam. Then we can talk about how to tweak them to make sure I (and everyone else)
"dies harder" next try.

[Dendrix]

I think the bigger grind on peoples sanity is having to grind as much as they do for the items they want.

Right now, everyone grinds for certain items and obtain them just to be on par with the challenge.

I've been killing Velah 4 times a week for over a year. I've seen the drop shard twice. And won neither.

tell me again how everyone "obtains" then?

[grandeibra]

The ultramassive Mod 3 was my fav.
* First massive outdoor area iirc
* A bunch of new quests, a great preraid and a superhard raid that took quite a few days before anyone in Europe completed it
* Introduction of the auction house
* Introduction of feat swap
* The very first level cap increase
* PvP (never cared for it myself but still a nice feature)
* Locking items in your bags. My fav improvement of all to this game ^^

6 months later GH was about the same size (as Shade said: everyone ran GH 24/7 for a long time)
5 months later Orchard/Abbot was about the same size

The best 12 month-period of this game imo

I hope the new release is at least somewhere close to those three mods ^^

[joneb1999]

3 new dungeons enough?

Look at what has been achieved in just the last four months from two other adventure packs, crafting, new pres, a new class, a new house to wander round, two new wildernesses and two new raids.

Also as we all know now when an update like this comes out there is another adventure pack update not far behind it. This makes even more sense since there is a whole new house opening up a whole new world of adventuring.

I think Turbine have done well all in all. Congrats guys. You don't always get that sort of praise from me. :p

[Philibusta]

Seriously? They've been averaging something like 3-4 quests every ~2 months for the past 2 years. That's faster than lightspeed for most MMOs.

How many of those updates were quality updates? And what I mean is, don't just consider the quality of the content of the updates. Sure, other MMO's may not release updates as fast as we've been getting them, but when they do, maybe there's a chance they do it right.

Whenever Turbine releases another update, it's bugged. Such-and-such quest doesn't work right, a door won't open, the NPC won't talk, whatever. And aside from that, whenever a new update does go live, it breaks stuff that worked before, that has nothing to do with anything in the new update! (i.e. UD8 breaking the Horc Greataxe attack chain)

I'd rather see less updates with a lot better QA.

[joneb1999]

How many of those updates were quality updates? And what I mean is, don't just consider the quality of the content of the updates. Sure, other MMO's may not release updates as fast as we've been getting them, but when they do, maybe there's a chance they do it right.

Whenever Turbine releases another update, it's bugged. Such-and-such quest doesn't work right, a door won't open, the NPC won't talk, whatever. And aside from that, whenever a new update does go live, it breaks stuff that worked before, that has nothing to do with anything in the new update! (i.e. UD8 breaking the Horc Greataxe attack chain)

I'd rather see less updates with a lot better QA.

Maybe others will clarify this for me but generally don't updates in mostly any programme often have bugs that may or may not also break elements of the previous build or cause clashes with other programmes? Even the best quality testing may not cover every instance that could occur (especially in a game with many variables).

[Yazzman]

Those are interesting ways to spell Reaver's Reach and Prey on the Hunter (the only pack, and specifically quest, where you can fight more than one dragon at one time).

Don't forget Mired in Kobolds.

[Hordo]

Yes.

If there were more Dungeons and less Raids, people would complain.
If there were more Raids and less Dungeons, people would complain.
If we had just Dungeons, people would complain no Raids.
If there were lower level, people would complain they were not end-game.

Give people what they want; end-game content, raids, new class, and they will complain.

;)

I'm complaining that you complained about people complaining! +1 ;)

[Hokiewa]

Im enjoying FREE ddo till 2015 when they must shut down ddo by law ;)

Lol. The "law" won't shut DDO down. It's an arbitrary date in a contract, nothing new there. If it's still successful you think WoTC won't renegotiate? Or do you believe Johnny FBI is gonna come strolling into Turbine, badges waving...yelling "Shut it down"..

Amusing!

[Mister_Peace]

The thing that will make it awesome, is if all 3 are like the Coal Chamber.
With protecting somebody like Coyle inside.

... who you have to lure through a maze beneath your feet filled with traps and flesh eating zombies by dropping bits of ham through the holes in the grate...

lol, and Coyle constantly jumps down the shaft getting respawns of bats that trigger red alert...
and you keep having to "gather your party" to open doors to go rescue him ...

[Templarion]

3 Dungeons + 2 Raids and a wilderness is a fair amount. The vale was only a little more, 5 quests and 1 raid + Open area, if its done well, it will be enough to tide people over until the next update.

This is true, yes.

[mystafyi]

If it's still successful you think WoTC won't renegotiate?

Atari wont deal with turbine on this issue. sorry.

[Asketes]

I mean the quests as quests, as adventures.

Most of the GH quests are boring "run through this cave and kill the big guy" quests. The newer ones have added more interesting twists to that (Sane Asylum wins first prize in that category, though I'm also a fan of Lord of Eyes in that respect, and the other quests are all -interesting-, sans Lord of Stone).

and yet gianthold is the one adventure area with the absolute most content.

The majority of the players here would kill for another Gianthold-like system.

3 major dungeons, 6 minor dungeons, pre raid that isn't required to be ran more than once and offers some still very sought after items and a piker raid.

I admit that changing the raid structure would be important, other than that, gianthold is the ideal dungeon system.

[edit]
I am not complaining about the new content's potential, if well thought out and enjoyable it will be just fine!

[Cauthey]

I can't understand why so many complain so much. Perhaps it's time to take a walk outside, or go meet a girl or a boy, and have yourself a nice time outside of game.

Because every time I trip over new content (and being that I'm not a vet, nor have I played everything), I am simply awed at the beauty of this game.

The time spent on the scenery and detail MUST be staggering. Because every time I run something new, I say "WOW!" And there always seems to be content that I haven't run yet.

[Nospheratus]

i STILL dont get why the stormreaver randomly tried to blow up his own fort, then decided "this is stupid, fix it for me, AFK" at the last minute. but the rest of gianthold's lore is pretty cool.
I believe he was under some sort of compulsion by the truthful one. Or someone else, but i think that was it. *hangs head in shame for not knowing the details* :p



I really don't want to see these raids both beaten on Elite on release day.
Close your eyes? :D

[Hokiewa]

Atari wont deal with turbine on this issue. sorry.

Lol, you are under the impression that Atari/Infogrames will have a choice. That impression is wrong.

[Cyr]

I completely agree. I can do kill quests in any game, but it is a rare moment that I get puked out by a Beholder. I think it is exciting times, and we have dev's in the MMO space that are thinking WAY outside the box. Sane Asylum/Delirium 2 could stand alone in any single player RPG game. I cannot think of a single mission in the MMO space that compares in creativity to those two. Personally I want the missions to feel more like...well, missions and less like 1st edition DnD sweep and clear dungeons. Do you really want to play Keep on the Borderlands, or do you want to play Tomb of Horrors? I'll take the latter, and yes I may only play it a few times, and not grind out for gear, but sometimes it is the experience that is the reward, not the foozle at the end.
Sorry you don't enjoy them Shade, but hope you stick around for the ride. I think the next few years are going to kick ass.

Combat is the best part of DDO compared to other MMOs. De-emphasising that and emphasising other less remarkable aspects of the game seems like a poor strategy.

By less remarkable aspects of the game I do mean keep coyle or a dancing bookshelf alive.

Gianthold was the best release this game had and it lots of search and destroy quests in it where you didn't have to protect some nuckle head who you would rather kill and resurrect when the fight was over.

Story line is fine, but lets not fool ourselves that DDO has incredible storyline or that storyline matters much when you are running the same quest for the 20th plus time because the last level 20+ quest that came out was a year ago. Good combat keeps those dungeons enjoyable.

[joneb1999]

Combat is the best part of DDO compared to other MMOs. De-emphasising that and emphasising other less remarkable aspects of the game seems like a poor strategy.

By less remarkable aspects of the game I do mean keep coyle or a dancing bookshelf alive.

Gianthold was the best release this game had and it lots of search and destroy quests in it where you didn't have to protect some nuckle head who you would rather kill and resurrect when the fight was over.

Story line is fine, but lets not fool ourselves that DDO has incredible storyline or that storyline matters much when you are running the same quest for the 20th plus time because the last level 20+ quest that came out was a year ago. Good combat keeps those dungeons enjoyable.

The last thing I want DDO to become is a simple dungeon running arcade like game, no real plot or storyline just get from the beginning to the end solving some basic puzzles, dodging some traps and constant fighting with no other reason but to better your character. Apparently that will be mostly what Neverwinter MMO will be.

For many of us the plot development and community interaction makes it all so much more important. There's no reason that a dungeon can't be both enjoyable and have a great story. IMO some people play this game more like a play by numbers and xp/to time ratio is what makes something more worthwhile for them. I'm guilty of doing this too I'm sad to say as I allow myself to be swayed to try to keep up with the Jones's even though I'm probably just above average as a player. That said protecting Coyle gets boring fast but then thats just constant fighting, what you are wanting more of.

[Cauthey]

I can't understand why so many complain so much. Perhaps it's time to take a walk outside, or go meet a girl or a boy, and have yourself a nice time outside of game.

Because every time I trip over new content (and being that I'm not a vet, nor have I played everything), I am simply awed at the beauty of this game.

The time spent on the scenery and detail MUST be staggering. Because every time I run something new, I say "WOW!" And there always seems to be content that I haven't run yet.

Neg rep for this? Really? REALLY?!

Whomever you are, I suggest that you http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uz5cl131KTk#t=131

[NytCrawlr]

I completely agree. I can do kill quests in any game, but it is a rare moment that I get puked out by a Beholder. I think it is exciting times, and we have dev's in the MMO space that are thinking WAY outside the box.

...

Sorry you don't enjoy them Shade, but hope you stick around for the ride. I think the next few years are going to kick ass.

I am totally hyped now and looking forwarded to the future then. The quests in Update 8 and on have been stellar, especially the latter ones!

[NytCrawlr]

Neg rep for this? Really? REALLY?!

Whomever you are, I suggest that you http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uz5cl131KTk#t=131

This is why I just turned the rep system off and give out positive rep where I can.

Overall not a fan of forum rep systems anyways.

[Gkar]

Thank you for not saying 'Kick Axe'

OG please don't remind them to use that

[donfilibuster]

Personally I want the missions to feel more like...well, missions and less like 1st edition DnD sweep and clear dungeons.

While that is true there's still surely room for a good ole dungeon crawl, and i believe DDO gets them right.
Naturally too much of anything is bad, but u can conceive things like a city's sewer system to be prowling with critters.

[brian14]

Thoughts?
Not knowing anything about the dungeons, nor their TP cost, impossible to answer.

[brian14]

I completely agree. I can do kill quests in any game, but it is a rare moment that I get puked out by a Beholder. I think it is exciting times, and we have dev's in the MMO space that are thinking WAY outside the box. Sane Asylum/Delirium 2 could stand alone in any single player RPG game. I cannot think of a single mission in the MMO space that compares in creativity to those two. Personally I want the missions to feel more like...well, missions and less like 1st edition DnD sweep and clear dungeons. Do you really want to play Keep on the Borderlands, or do you want to play Tomb of Horrors?
Actually... most of the time I prefer Keep on the Borderlands.

As a PnP player, I was strictly into dungeon crawl. I had little interest in role-playing, and none at all in in-game politics or history. My ideal gaming environment was an endless underground complex like Night Below (http://www.amazon.com/Night-Below-Underdark-Campaign-Roleplaying/dp/0786901799). Quests like Delirium or In the Flesh I like occasionally. I love DDO, but as a PnP player I found Eberron way too overdetailed.

[NytCrawlr]

Actually... most of the time I prefer Keep on the Borderlands.

As a PnP player, I was strictly into dungeon crawl.

This is why I love DDO. It has a mix of both. I can go into the Harbor and Market where 90% of the quests are straight up old school dungeon, hack and slash, crawls; then I can try out some of the newer quest lines for stories and some challenge.

Continuing to try their best to marry the two is why I consider this the best MMO out there.

[Newbie]

Would some of you guys like me to play the worlds tiniest violin you?

[Bindox]

Mmmmm....Lloth.



You mean Lolth (http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Lolth)? Never heard of Lloth. ;)

[Kakashi67]

You mean Lolth (http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Lolth)? Never heard of Lloth. ;)

Allow me to edumakate you. ;)

http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Lloth/46577]

[dragonofsteel2]

I completely agree. I can do kill quests in any game, but it is a rare moment that I get puked out by a Beholder. I think it is exciting times, and we have dev's in the MMO space that are thinking WAY outside the box. Sane Asylum/Delirium 2 could stand alone in any single player RPG game. I cannot think of a single mission in the MMO space that compares in creativity to those two. Personally I want the missions to feel more like...well, missions and less like 1st edition DnD sweep and clear dungeons. Do you really want to play Keep on the Borderlands, or do you want to play Tomb of Horrors? I'll take the latter, and yes I may only play it a few times, and not grind out for gear, but sometimes it is the experience that is the reward, not the foozle at the end.
Sorry you don't enjoy them Shade, but hope you stick around for the ride. I think the next few years are going to kick ass.

Hmm the book selves and beds, sorry not for me. Though I did enjoy the puzzle in insane asylum. I thought the quest line was outside the box for good, though that does not mean good to me. Hmm the rat quest in necro 3 is outside the box to, but annoying is annoying. If the boat would have just been made with no way of the bookselves and beds dieing sure that would have been neat. Though I really wish games would go to the skip option if everyone in the quest did it once. I get tired of seeing the same scene over and over again. It gets annoying watching the same cut scene over and over.

Some ideas sound great but play horrible :cool:, I love the fight with two dragons at end of Prey of the hunter. THough it is annoying because the getting blown across the screen all the time. Should be 1 min. timers on annoying attacks like this, when mobs have ton of hitpoints. Concepts might have been great, but that does not make the fight any less annoying are protecting the mobs.


I thought about why hate protecting npc on quest. It really simple, because the challenge is raise, but the rewards are not. When you have no control on how someone does something, that increases the chance of failure, but in return for these harder quest we do not get a boost in xp. That were you guys fail on these quest. I really like to see more of these quest, but with the xp boosted right level. If made the reward for these quest reflect the challenge, I think people would enjoy them more.