Artificer and Completionist

[dameron]

So, all those completionists out there will have to TR ($$$) into an Artificer ($$$) and then TR ($$$) back into their original class to get back to where they are today.

Nice.

[voodoogroves]

So, all those completionists out there will have to TR ($$$) into an Artificer ($$$) and then TR ($$$) back into their original class ($$$) to get back to where they are today.

Nice.

This isn't a surprise is it?

[PLUGintoTHEpowerLINE]

There's a big warning on the completionist feat that when new classes are created, the feat will be deactivated. It shouldn't some as a surprise to anyone.

[Kale_Hagan]

Not to sound like a jerk, but this was a known issue.

I don't think anyone goes to completionist without keeping this in mind. It's not like they've hidden the fact that they're adding new classes.

It totally sucks, and I feel the pain. I think a compromise would be to not deactivate the completionist feat UNTIL the toon TRs again.

[Seikojin]

So do you want turbine not to make money on this game? I mean, really.

You can grind the tp to do it for free, so I don't see a problem.

[PresentTense]

It's been clear that would be the case since completionist was added. It's in the description of the feat. As far as I see it, you have many choices:

1. Don't go for completionist
2. Get completionist, enjoy it while you have it, don't get it again
3. Spend the money

I'm not sure why you think it costs too much. Turbine's not handing out free puppies - this is a business. If you don't want the product, don't buy it. If you do want it, be prepared to demonstrate that by shelling out the cash.

[Eladrin]

The Completionist feat will turn into a free feat respec token whenever a new class is released.

[Tenchi]

And why does TRing cost $$$? I'd expect a completionist to have 40 tokens in their bag by that time.

[flaggson]

So, all those completionists out there will have to TR ($$$) into an Artificer ($$$) and then TR ($$$) back into their original class to get back to where they are today.

Nice.

They warned us ahead of time that there would be more classes released and that this would be the case for the completionist feat.. no surprise really. Might have been an issue if they were not up front with the information... but they were from the very beginning.

[dameron]

It's been clear that would be the case since completionist was added. It's in the description of the feat. As far as I see it, you have many choices:

1. Don't go for completionist
2. Get completionist, enjoy it while you have it, don't get it again
3. Spend the money

I'm not sure why you think it costs too much. Turbine's not handing out free puppies - this is a business. If you don't want the product, don't buy it. If you do want it, be prepared to demonstrate that by shelling out the cash.

You could also just stay an Artificer. That'll save you the last TR. But I doubt folks who went all the way to completionist are going to be so enthralled with Artificer that very many of them will decide to not TR back to their "goal" class and stay there.

I understand TRing to get completionist on new classes, and paying to get new classes, but perhaps Turbine could also award a free TR upon achieving completionist to avoid the savage gouging of having to buy two TRs.

[Eladiun]

So, all those completionists out there will have to TR ($$$) into an Artificer ($$$) and then TR ($$$) back into their original class to get back to where they are today.

Nice.


TR = 20 Epic Tokens
Artificer = VIP

Doesn't necessarily require spending a dime.

[Cetus]

The Completionist feat will turn into a free feat respec token whenever a new class is released.

WOw...a developer posting regarding the completionist feat for the first time in a year...


So...any plans on making it free for the sake of all that is good and just in this world..?

[Alternative]

Hey, it would also be nice to let people keep their +4 tomes on a TR. You know, 20 TRs, finally done, eats a +4 whatever tome as the icing, then bam! :)

[TempestAlphaOmega]

So...any plans on making it free for the sake of all that is good and just in this world..?

The problem with all that is good and just.......one person's good is another person's evil and just is all .... ummm .... just just based on just your point of view.

[TheDjinnFor]

TR = 20 Epic Tokens
Artificer = VIP

Doesn't necessarily require spending a dime.

I don't know of a single completionist out of three who didn't use XP Pots, and of all those I know of that TR, most of them use XP pots too. Then there are the mana pots that make flying through levels with a caster ridiculously easy.

Regarding the OP, the worst part is, imo, the +4 tomes they have to re-obtain.

[Hokiewa]

Somebody explain how this is a surprise to anyone that has obtained completionist?

[stainer]

Somebody explain how this is a surprise to anyone that has obtained completionist?

I know right?

That and there really aren't any completionists complaining.

[Memnir]

It really shouldn't come as a surprise - it's pretty clearly labeled.

------------------------------------------------------

http://content.turbine.com/sites/compendium.ddo.com/images/icons/feat/feat_reincarnation_pastlife_completionist.png (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Feat:Completionist)
Completionist
Usage: Passive
You win DDO! You've leveled to 20
in every class, and for your effort
you can take this feat to get a +2
bonus to all skills and ability
scores. When more classes are
added, this feat will deactivate
and you will need to gain those
past lives before this benefit
reactivates.

------------------------------------------------------

I would have thought that anyone gunning for completionist would have already had a plan to deal with new classes from the get-go. Personally, I think this is one more reason why the Feat itself should be free.
The Completionist feat will turn into a free feat respec token whenever a new class is released.But I guess for now, this is a nice gesture.

[BoBo2020]

So, all those completionists out there will have to TR ($$$) into an Artificer ($$$) and then TR ($$$) back into their original class to get back to where they are today.

Nice.

It is nice and appropriate and not a surprise.

Keep tomes? - I'm on board for that, but completionist should turn off when new classes come along (the free feat respec is actually an unexpected bonus).

[QuantumFX]

So, all those completionists out there will have to TR ($$$) into an Artificer ($$$) and then TR ($$$) back into their original class to get back to where they are today.

Nice.

Or… LR a few times into an artificer ($$$) and then TR back to their original class.

[Uska]

If you haven't done all classes to 20 you aren't a completionist now this agree with I don't agree you should lose you +3 tomes or better

[Thrudh]

The Completionist feat will turn into a free feat respec token whenever a new class is released.

The real problem is tomes... People who "finish" their characters CANNOT read tomes, unless they get 2 of each kind, because a new class is always on the horizon.

I got my first +4 tome the other week, and it's rather depressing to me that it sits in my bank because I'm not sure if I'm going to TR again.

[Cyr]

The real problem is tomes... People who "finish" their characters CANNOT read tomes, unless they get 2 of each kind, because a new class is always on the horizon.

I got my first +4 tome the other week, and it's rather depressing to me that it sits in my bank because I'm not sure if I'm going to TR again.

Yup, that sums it up nicely.

There should not be incentives in game that make it so you have good loot sitting around in your bank instead of using it.

[Vordax]

Wonder what the passive past life feat will be.. I suspect +1 UMD and +1 repair skill. Though I doubt artificers will be so dependent on UMD in DDO like they are in PnP, but who knows..

Vordax

[Qzipoun]

I don't agree you should lose you +3 tomes or better


The real problem is tomes... People who "finish" their characters CANNOT read tomes, unless they get 2 of each kind, because a new class is always on the horizon.

I got my first +4 tome the other week, and it's rather depressing to me that it sits in my bank because I'm not sure if I'm going to TR again.


There should not be incentives in game that make it so you have good loot sitting around in your bank instead of using it.

This. This. This.

New classes are to be expected so while having to double TR when they are introduced is a huge pain there really isn't any way for Turbine to avoid that and still be 'fair' (someone joining post-U11 should have the same shot at it as someone joining before).

However, BECAUSE new classes are to be expected, eating a tome becomes a huge issue. I should not have +4 tomes of my main stats sitting in the bank just because a new class might show up that I will need to TR into... Heck, I know for sure I will TR my guy soon (maybe even go for completionist) so now this puts me in a situation where the hardest items to get (excluding eROSS) just sit in my bank when I acquire them!?

Make tomes reusable and Bind to Character - On Use. Heck make just raid tomes reusable (would breathe some life into the +2 tomes from VON/Titan/DQ which are now inferior to common loot-gen tomes...)

[Cetus]

I am exhausted with lamenting about tomes and the issues with the feat in general...the developers never posted about our concerns and probably never will.

[Rumbaar]

I am exhausted with lamenting about tomes and the issues with the feat in general...the developers never posted about our concerns and probably never will.It's interesting that the feat wasn't meant to make it live and was only put there as a joke.

But I'm sad for all those 'final' life completionists' that ate +4 tomes.

[Blank_Zero]

The Completionist feat will turn into a free feat respec token whenever a new class is released.

Cool idea!

[Combat_Wombat]

I don't know of a single completionist out of three who didn't use XP Pots, and of all those I know of that TR, most of them use XP pots too. Then there are the mana pots that make flying through levels with a caster ridiculously easy.

Regarding the OP, the worst part is, imo, the +4 tomes they have to re-obtain.

XP and SP pots are easily obtainable in the game in mass quantities for free very easily

and its also extremely easy to make a character without +4 tomes

Everyone who TR's or tries for completionist should be well aware of what they are getting into as its well spelled out all along the way. No one is making you TR again and lose your tomes if they are that important don't do it. It is that simple.

[Kakashi67]

I'm curious how many people do just the straight completionist and then stop. Seems like quite a few completionists go for 20+ TRs.

[Culver.Civello]

I sense a bug coming. >.>

[Ungood]

The Completionist feat will turn into a free feat respec token whenever a new class is released.

I was wondering about that, but this is good to know! Thanks for the heads up!

And great job thinking ahead like that! Kudos!

[Hollowgolem]

I don't know of a single completionist out of three who didn't use XP Pots, and of all those I know of that TR, most of them use XP pots too. Then there are the mana pots that make flying through levels with a caster ridiculously easy.

Regarding the OP, the worst part is, imo, the +4 tomes they have to re-obtain.

On life 5 of my completionist, no XP pots.

Though I haven't hit the caster lives yet.

[Chette]

You could also just stay an Artificer. That'll save you the last TR.

No, you'll need to TR twice to get completionist back as you need to get past life artificer. I suppose you could LR 3 times to get the artificer past life and then TR again into something eligible for completionist, but that's a lot of hearts.

[Qzipoun]

Everyone who TR's or tries for completionist should be well aware of what they are getting into as its well spelled out all along the way. No one is making you TR again and lose your tomes if they are that important don't do it. It is that simple.

You're missing the fact that simply getting completionist puts you in a never-ending quest for tomes. You get completionist before U11? Well now you have to choose between either keeping completionist or your tomes... Got completionist again after U11? Well as soon as another class comes out you have to make the same choice again, it never ends

As soon as a new class comes out, you LOSE +2 to all your stats and skills. That in itself is fine, it's clearly laid out like you say but having to lose your +4 tomes too? That's pushing it... It wouldn't be so bad if the tomes weren't so hard to get...

[Hollowgolem]

If they didn't give you some way to lose hard-to-get things, there'd be a definite endgame.

That doesn't make sense if they're trying to keep us playing.

It's nice to have a goal on the horizon, and this helps keep the goal on the horizon.

I for one don't mind Turbine dangling a radish in front of us.

[gloopygloop]

So, all those completionists out there will have to TR ($$$) into an Artificer ($$$) and then TR ($$$) back into their original class to get back to where they are today.

Nice.

I really don't think that will be a big deal for any completionists that are out there today. If they already TR'd more than a dozen times, then two more won't be a calamaty and they most likely have a fair number of epic tokens sitting around if they were on their "final" life.

If I were a completionist and not already VIP, I'd probably just go VIP for a month and knock out the Artificer life/lives (depends on how attractive their passive past life is) during that VIP month. If Artificer turns out to be a whole lot of fun, then I'd buy them for keeps. If not, then I don't have to go back to the class after that month is over.

The real kick in the pants is the loss of +3 and +4 tomes for anyone who was on their "final" life. Of course, we've known for months now that new classes were coming, so it's unlikely that anyone who wants the completionist feat for their "final" life would eat more than a +3 Dex tome just for hitting 17 Dex to grab TWF.

[gloopygloop]

If they didn't give you some way to lose hard-to-get things, there'd be a definite endgame.

There is no way for us to lose Greensteel weapons (unless you count throwing meteors in the Abbot raid).

There is no way for us to lose Epic gear.

There is no way for us to lose Raid loot.

[Hollowgolem]

But Greensteel, Epic gear, and raid loot can be outclassed by new things (in theory).

You can't outclass raw bonuses to stats, so you make them go away on TR.

Seems sensible to me.

[gloopygloop]

But Greensteel, Epic gear, and raid loot can be outclassed by new things (in theory).

You can't outclass raw bonuses to stats, so you make them go away on TR.

Seems sensible to me.

You can outclass raw bonuses to stats with bigger raw bonuses to stats. It has happened a few times before in DDO - once when +3 tomes were introduced and once when +4 tomes were introduced.

Also, the fact that the better Greensteel weapons haven't really been outclassed by anything since they were introduced kind of puts a hole in that.

[Goldeneye]

After all the work, time, and effort that TR's and completionists put into the game, I feel that Turbine should give them some more slack. Maybe play a little nicer with the people that play the game the most, and quit tryin to get every dollar.

If someone gets Completionist - let them freakin' have it. They have earned it. Don't take that away - especially if they have gone ahead and eaten their +4 tomes.

[PurdueDave]

The Completionist feat will turn into a free feat respec token whenever a new class is released.

Ouchie.

So basically, don't ever get too attached to it.

[Elaril]

So are we just now figuring out that tomes go away on TRing? Or that the completionist feat requires two more TR's upon the inception of a new class? Or were we just saving this for the right occasion?

Seriously, I want in on the complain train too, but I need to figure out what our angle is here.

[ayspam]

Or… LR a few times into an artificer ($$$) and then TR back to their original class.

This is prolly the route that I m taking. The tomes eaten are a bigger kick in the face. I can TR back to whatever in less then a week, now the same cant be said for the eaten tomes, sadly.

Clearly the completionist, wasnt a well thought out idea in the first place. I m still in the opinion that it should be free, and/or any +3 tomes can be carried over to a new life +4 tomes by anyone who has already acquired the completionist feat once. This would at least give you a little light at the end of the tunnel. 12 lives and you can freely eat them never to lose again. Seems fair after near 50 million xp.

The completionist population is very small at this time, so our voices wont be heard anyway.

[KillEveryone]

I'm here to complain that I don't have much to complain about.

We all knew that new classes would deactivate the feat.

We all knew that tomes go away on TR.

Are we complaining? I'm not complaining.

I want to complain because I'm not complaining so that I have something to complain about.

[wemery73]

I'm here to complain that I don't have much to complain about.

We all knew that new classes would deactivate the feat.

We all knew that tomes go away on TR.

Are we complaining? I'm not complaining.

I want to complain because I'm not complaining so that I have something to complain about.

roflol:)

[mons]

On life 5 of my completionist, no XP pots.

Though I haven't hit the caster lives yet.

Made it to my 13th tr b4 chugging xp pots. It sucked!

[edragoon148]

Perhaps a way to remedy the "Loss of Tomes on TR Issue" is to implement a way of returning those bonuses to you by way of Favor Reward. I think it would be cool if the devs added a second Tier of Yugoloth favor (possibly the amount accrued by completing all of Amrath Elite), and upon attaining this Favor Rank: First life toons gain an end reward list of +3/4 Tomes. True Reincarnated characters are bestowed with the benefits of tomes consumed in previous lives.

Just a small suggestion :-) but I think it would be a great way to avoid the royal kick in the nuts that is TRing after eating +3/4 tomes, and additionally Turbine would add an element to the Amrath pack that makes it even more worth purchasing (not that ToD rings don't already play a huge role in that).

[Noopleh]

Perhaps a way to remedy the "Loss of Tomes on TR Issue" is to implement a way of returning those bonuses to you by way of Favor Reward. I think it would be cool if the devs added a second Tier of Yugoloth favor (possibly the amount accrued by completing all of Amrath Elite), and upon attaining this Favor Rank: First life toons gain an end reward list of +3/4 Tomes. True Reincarnated characters are bestowed with the benefits of tomes consumed in previous lives.

Just a small suggestion :-) but I think it would be a great way to avoid the royal kick in the nuts that is TRing after eating +3/4 tomes, and additionally Turbine would add an element to the Amrath pack that makes it even more worth purchasing (not that ToD rings don't already play a huge role in that).

I like, +1

[rimble]

So, all those completionists out there will have to TR ($$$) into an Artificer ($$$) and then TR ($$$) back into their original class to get back to where they are today.

No, they will not have to.

[Rodasch]

Because the game is so hard, you can't possibly play a character with a 36 point build, +2 to all stats feat, and at least one of every class past life passive feats without a +4 tome in every relevent stat?

Seriously folks, I understand you like your +4 tomes and they make you feel comfy with your superior statistics, but it's not that big of a difference really from a +2 tome in the same spot.

You will still have a ridiculously powerful character without the +4 tomes, trust me. The game won't suddenly be difficult for you.

[gloopygloop]

Because the game is so hard, you can't possibly play a character with a 36 point build, +2 to all stats feat, and at least one of every class past life passive feats without a +4 tome in every relevent stat?

Seriously folks, I understand you like your +4 tomes and they make you feel comfy with your superior statistics, but it's not that big of a difference really from a +2 tome in the same spot.

You will still have a ridiculously powerful character without the +4 tomes, trust me. The game won't suddenly be difficult for you.

You can play the game without Greensteel or raid loot, too. I know that's true because that's what I end up doing on the first life of every character. Does that mean that we should take away GS and raid loot from every TR?

[Hokiewa]

You can play the game without Greensteel or raid loot, too. I know that's true because that's what I end up doing on the first life of every character. Does that mean that we should take away GS and raid loot from every TR?

Seriously, they knew this was going to happen. Invalid comparison.

[edragoon148]

Because the game is so hard, you can't possibly play a character with a 36 point build, +2 to all stats feat, and at least one of every class past life passive feats without a +4 tome in every relevent stat?

Seriously folks, I understand you like your +4 tomes and they make you feel comfy with your superior statistics, but it's not that big of a difference really from a +2 tome in the same spot.

You will still have a ridiculously powerful character without the +4 tomes, trust me. The game won't suddenly be difficult for you.

I don't think this has any relevance to the point the OP was making . . . No one identified that the game was by any means hard without +4 tomes. In fact, most often +3/4 tomes are used as a utility purpose to meet requirements without investing build points. An example would be with proper application of tomes a completionist Wizard can easily start both 16 Str, 18 Con, 16 Int and end up with high enough DCs to CC all epic content as well as enough to-hit to dominate epic mobs, thus serving a multifunctional role. Is this necessary? No, but it caters to some players' likes and dislikes.

Back on track though, the OP wasn't implying the game was difficult, simply that we shouldn't be stripped of BtC loot when TRing (especially since they're far more rare that almost all other loot).

[Rodasch]

I don't think this has any relevance to the point the OP was making . . . No one identified that the game was by any means hard without +4 tomes. In fact, most often +3/4 tomes are used as a utility purpose to meet requirements without investing build points. An example would be with proper application of tomes a completionist Wizard can easily start both 16 Str, 18 Con, 16 Int and end up with high enough DCs to CC all epic content as well as enough to-hit to dominate epic mobs, thus serving a multifunctional role. Is this necessary? No, but it caters to some players' likes and dislikes.

Back on track though, the OP wasn't implying the game was difficult, simply that we shouldn't be stripped of BtC loot when TRing (especially since they're far more rare that almost all other loot).

The problem with your last sentence is that tomes are not technically BtC Loot once you use them, they are used up.

Do you also feel that when you TR you should get back all of the Potions, Wands, Scrolls, etc that you used up in your previous lives?

[edragoon148]

O.o Potions, Wands, Scrolls vs. +3/4 Tomes?

Apples and Oranges. Actually, Apples and Sweet Corn would be an equivalent to the vast difference between the two.

Mmmmm, sweet corn. Love it when I'm not jumping and chugging +4 tomes :-3

[Rodasch]

O.o Potions, Wands, Scrolls vs. +3/4 Tomes?

Apples and Oranges. Actually, Apples and Sweet Corn would be an equivalent to the vast difference between the two.

Mmmmm, sweet corn. Love it when I'm not jumping and chugging +4 tomes :-3

How, exactly is one consumable not like the other in relation to retaining the "loot"? Once they are consumed, they cease being loot and begin being only their effect. You cannot call a consumed tome BtC loot anymore.

If your argument is that using a tome gives you a "permanent" stat boost, I counter with They are not permanent, they are bound to that life, just as you class and race skills are, other than the vague recollections tied up in past life feats. The idea is that it's a past life, not just adding another class and pretending you don't have the old one for 20 more levels. You literally forget everything from your old life, skills, stats, spells, levels, etc. The tomes effects are gained by reading them, meaning you learn from them how to make your stat better, so it stands to reason that knowledge too would be lost in the process.

You don't really have a mechanics or rp leg to stand on with desiring keeping tomes through TR. All you have is "it would be easier" or "I don't want to farm more tomes".

How dare Turbine give you something else to do besides rush back to 20 and complain how there's nothing left to do and nothing is a challenge...now you can break that up with farming more +4 tomes every time a new class comes out. Or start farming them now to save up a set for each time you lose completionist.

In other words, if +4 tomes are needed for your perfect completionist build to be the most fun for you, you're not done with your completionist until you have another set of the same tomes to use next time they add a class. It's not like this is new, it's just the first time in a while it's been real for some people. knowing something in theory is different than dealing with it in reality or imminent reality.

[gloopygloop]

How, exactly is one consumable not like the other in relation to retaining the "loot"? Once they are consumed, they cease being loot and begin being only their effect. You cannot call a consumed tome BtC loot anymore.

If Tomes ceased to function when you leave a quest, then you'd have a point. But they're not actually consumeables. They're most like permanent equipment that goes on your "Inherant" slot.

[Morlen]

The Completionist feat will turn into a free feat respec token whenever a new class is released.

Somewhat cool. Still have to TR again. I think the completionist feat should include making all tomes permanent on a toon, even if it TRs again. That seems even better-er. ^_^

[Rodasch]

If Tomes ceased to function when you leave a quest, then you'd have a point. But they're not actually consumeables. They're most like permanent equipment that goes on your "Inherant" slot.

xp potions, loot boost gems, ddo store pots of various sorts, all continue functioning when you leave a quest (or enter one). Your measure is flawed.

Tomes are not most like equipment when used. Tomes are only equipment when NOT used, and in that state, they do indeed carry right on over to the next life with all your other gear. However, once used, they go away and leave only their effect, just like any other consumable equipment. The duration of that effect is irrelevant to whether it's consumable or not.

The effect of the tome's consumption is what you're seeking to keep through TR. That effect is a character flag unlocking stat boosts from learning (via the tome!)...should raid flagging carry over on a TR? how about favor? What about all the other things that are "permanent" from something you worked hard for in the game?

I stand by what I said, you've got no compelling argument for keeping the tome effects through TR other than it would make you happy.

[Rodasch]

Somewhat cool. Still have to TR again. I think the completionist feat should include making all tomes permanent on a toon, even if it TRs again. That seems even better-er. ^_^

That might be a good notion. After all, someone who has reincarnated so many times might just gain the gift of keeping certain knowledge, like tomes.

[gloopygloop]

xp potions, loot boost gems, ddo store pots of various sorts, all continue functioning when you leave a quest (or enter one). Your measure is flawed.

And every single one of them wears off in a couple of hours. Tomes last forever unless you delete your character or TR. Tomes are even more permanent than gear because you can lose your gear to a mailbox/bank/throwing weapons bug or you can sell your gear, but once you read a Tome, it's there forever.
Edit: And XP pots, loot boost gems, DDO store pots of various sorts all continue functioning through a TR now as well. :)



Tomes are not most like equipment when used. Tomes are only equipment when NOT used, and in that state, they do indeed carry right on over to the next life with all your other gear. However, once used, they go away and leave only their effect, just like any other consumable equipment.

Thank you for summarizing the current state of the game. I'm sure no one knew that before your post[/sarcasm]

The whole point of this thread is that there is a reasonable argument to be made that they *should* persist.


The effect of the tome's consumption is what you're seeking to keep through TR. That effect is a character flag unlocking stat boosts from learning (via the tome!)...should raid flagging carry over on a TR? how about favor? What about all the other things that are "permanent" from something you worked hard for in the game?

If it took 20+ raids to even have a chance at flagging for a quest, then I'd say that flagging should probably carry over to the next life.
If it took dozens (or more) of Epic raids to get that favor, then I'd say that it probably should carry over to the next life.

[wootvenu]

$$$ and $$$ and $$$.

[Cyr]

I just find it highly amusing that xp pots now last through TR's, but tomes still do not.

[Rodasch]

Thank you for summarizing the current state of the game. I'm sure no one knew that before your post[/sarcasm]

My having to summarize the current state of the game in response to your post makes your sarcastic comment ironic.



The whole point of this thread is that there is a reasonable argument to be made that they *should* persist.

Perhaps, but that reasonable argument was not presented in any of your posts, which was the point of my replies (even summed up neatly at the end of one). I have seen one person come close to making a reasonable suggestion regarding tomes persisting, and I commented as such about them.




If it took 20+ raids to even have a chance at flagging for a quest, then I'd say that flagging should probably carry over to the next life.
If it took dozens (or more) of Epic raids to get that favor, then I'd say that it probably should carry over to the next life.

Really? That's what you'd say? I'd probably say "this flagging and favor system sucks and I"m going to play something else", that's what I'd say, if your hypothetical were the case.

I still don't think you are realizing how small of an actual difference there is between a +2 and a +4 tome on the actual mechanics of the character. It might mean spending build points slightly differently, but I bet you'd never notice the difference if your +4 tomes were all really +2 tomes and the stats on your character sheet just displayed a wrong number to keep you fooled.

[Rodasch]

I just find it highly amusing that xp pots now last through TR's, but tomes still do not.

The really big question is why in the world a level 20 character is drinking an xp potion for that to be necessary?

Then again, maybe they rushed all the way to 20 just to TR again instantly...but then at that point, I think a tome isn't even on their radar for that life in the first place.