Arcane Tank

[Darknark]

EDIT: If you are reading this you should know THIS POST IS OLD. ie: out of date / not entirely correct ... etc

This build is somewhat of a large work in progress.
I am planning on TRing my human sorc soon, and have been examining builds.
I am aware that this build would have seriously reduced epic viability, and would work far better after a second *or more* TR so that it could 'max' a second skill. This build is more of a 'theory' build and I am just looking to get an idea of what is needed for a viable tank sorc. My final build would try to incorporate more abilities outside of tanking.
I would like the communities thoughts on this build. (Specifically I would like help with my intimidate breakdown, as I have absolutely no clue there)
Earth sav for leveling, air or water at endgame.

My reasoning for the skill point allocation is that the build could (theoretically) hold agro against similarly geared sorcs using both dots. Allowing much higher dps than if a FvS were tanking with one dot. The two fighter levels are for: Shield mastery feats (20% DR) and were suggested to me by a similar build.
The skill point allocation of this build hinges upon intimidate applying to spells. Thus allowing the build To hold agro even with one dot active (if needing to conserve sp):


Intimidate

A successful use of the intimidate skill now sets a player's threat with a monster equal to the highest threat opponent, plus a small buffer based on a player's size-modified intimidate skill. The player gains a +50% threat multiplier to all attacks (melee, ranged, and spells) for a short period after successful intimidation. Intimidate now has a 15 second cooldown, but players will no longer automatically lose the monster's aggro after six seconds.
When using a shield, intimidate will get a longer lasting and more effective threat multiplier applied.






Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.8.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Arcane Tank
Level 20 True Neutral Warforged Male
(2 Fighter \ 18 Sorcerer)
Hit Points: 316
Spell Points: 1613
BAB: 11\11\16\21
Fortitude: 17
Reflex: 5
Will: 9

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(34 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 8 8
Dexterity 8 8
Constitution 20 27
Intelligence 10 12
Wisdom 6 6
Charisma 16 18

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 3
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 3
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance -1 -1
Bluff 3 4
Concentration 5 9
Diplomacy 3 4
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle 3 4
Heal -2 -2
Hide -1 -1
Intimidate 7 28
Jump -1 -1
Listen -2 -2
Move Silently -1 -1
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 0 1
Search 0 1
Spot -2 -2
Swim -1 -1
Tumble n/a n/a
Use Magic Device 5 11

Level 1 (Fighter)
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Sorcerer
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Shield Mastery
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 2 (Sorcerer)


Level 3 (Sorcerer)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell


Level 4 (Sorcerer)


Level 5 (Sorcerer)


Level 6 (Sorcerer)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Focus: Conjuration


Level 7 (Sorcerer)


Level 8 (Sorcerer)


Level 9 (Sorcerer)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell


Level 10 (Sorcerer)


Level 11 (Sorcerer)


Level 12 (Sorcerer)
Feat: (Selected) Heighten Spell


Level 13 (Sorcerer)


Level 14 (Sorcerer)


Level 15 (Sorcerer)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Spell


Level 16 (Sorcerer)


Level 17 (Sorcerer)


Level 18 (Sorcerer)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 19 (Sorcerer)


Level 20 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Shield Mastery


Note: It uses 17 enhancement points for this. ofc willing to sacrifice hp for more points if absolutely necessary.

Hp Breakdown (I'm sure I missed something)
20 Heroic Vit
72 sorc hp
20 fighter hp
280 con bonus - 20base +2 tome +5 level ups +3except, +6, +2 racial enhance
44 toughness feats
40 toughness WF enhancements
10 toughness Fighter
30 Gfl
20 minos (toughness, can be slotted elsewhere)
45 shroud
10 Dragon
-------------
591

40 Yugo pot
20 rage
20 shipbuff
--------------
671 - with normal buffs.
10 sfl
----------
681 - with sup. False life
+40 - epic abishai set (5pc, +3 con. +1 con (change the +6 to +7 con in con boost)
+10 Pirate trinket
+20 - large guild augment slot.
+20 - +3 con tome and litany OR +4 con tome.
---------------------------------
771 - potential.

DR:
20/- Dod
20%

w/o Skyvault shield
18 (+5 with divine power clickies)
-----------------------------------
38 (43 w/dp) + 20%
-----------------------------------
44 (49) +20% w/ above and epic shield of scorpion


Feats:
-Toughness
-Shield master (+15% blocking DR)
-Maximize
-SF conj (earth sav while leveling)
-Quicken
-Heighten -for leveling, if converting to 'pure tank' could be dropped for another feat. Given that my endgame dc's will be terrible, this is more of a 'pure damage' tank build (yea, I lose the 30% capstone, hence my need for anathema and intimidate to insure that I can hold agro [potentially with one Dot])
-Empower
-Toughness
-Imp. shield master (+5% blocking DR)

Ability to hold agro - high via the use of Dot's, sla's, and intimidate (15 second cool down, 12 second buff of 100% agro boost. (If the release notes and wiki are correct) +25% agro via anathema ring.

Relating to SP: ~2400-2700. + Torc and dual conc opp's for sp back while tanking. - To stretch the SP bar

Intimidate Breakdown (work in progress) I know that I am missing a lot of stuff here.
23 ranks
7 Cha bonus (16, +2tome, +6 item)
20 Epic Brawn's Spirits, when Genasi's proposed changes occur.

[Luckness]

If Fighter is just for feats, 2 Monk offers better saves and evasion. It does require finding a use for both feats... I suggest 2x Toughness. You are already taking two Toughness feats, so your feat layout remains identical.

[Darknark]

If Fighter is just for feats, 2 Monk offers better saves and evasion. It does require finding a use for both feats... I suggest 2x Toughness. You are already taking two Toughness feats, so your feat layout remains identical.

Yes, this was considered, but without a reflex save to back it up, evasion is less useful.

My main reason for not going monk was that I didn't have access to it. Also, fighter adds 22hp (essentially one more toughness feat).

Dropping the extra toughness could be good, if I wanted to improve epic viability. Dropping some con levelups in favor of cha boosts would also help the build outside of tanking.

[EpiKagEMO]

These are my opinions:
Fire savant increases skill to intimidate. should try that one out instead of ice and lightning. though, alot of monsters are immune to fire, etc. But your DCs wont even go through, so why bother using lightning and ice? Unless of course, you are using polar ray :3 You might as well blast things to death instead of tanking, no?

I also see that for most arcane tanks ie. Tukaw, that balance sill is a problem when you are knocked down. you cannot quickly jump back up to repair yourself.

[Darknark]

These are my opinions:
Fire savant increases skill to intimidate. should try that one out instead of ice and lightning. though, alot of monsters are immune to fire, etc. But your DCs wont even go through, so why bother using lightning and ice? Unless of course, you are using polar ray :3 You might as well blast things to death instead of tanking, no?

I also see that for most arcane tanks ie. Tukaw, that balance sill is a problem when you are knocked down. you cannot quickly jump back up to repair yourself.


DoT's. The only thing you ever need for boss fights. You will pull agro with them quite easily. Also, ALL conventional tanks (not counting FvS, because they are widely considered 'unconventional' ) are also healed by a divine/arcane (this just has the bonus of being able to heal himself and hold agro against a doting sorc) so your 'knock down' argument doesn't stand up.

Fire sav is pretty useless at tanking imo, the negative 9 CL you get to your cold dot is 9 damage * 3 * 2.5 * 2.25 or 151.9 damage a tic. Not counting crits. That means going either fire or earth and using dots is a loss of around 75dps. With melees spending ages to get their 4damage per hit from Eclaw, I can safely say that there is no way I'd take a negative 75dps for a +X to intimidate.

Regarding DC's

I am aware that this build would have seriously reduced epic viability, and would work far better after a second *or more* TR so that it could 'max' a second skill. This build is more of a 'theory' build and I am just looking to get an idea of what is needed for a viable tank sorc. My final build would try to incorporate more abilities outside of tanking.

I just want to get the requirements for tanking down, and then tweak the rest to fit normal play.

[krisz93]

You should definitely check out Spellshield in my signature for an other variety.

[Sloth4]

This is going to be incredibly disjointed, bear with me.

I have been running a sorc tank for a little while now and there are a couple issues with your proposed build.

You need to decide what you are really trying to with this build, there are very few places where a dedicated tank is required and building a tank to be able to do most of these and building a tank to be able to take care of elite horoth are vastly different ball games.

If you have built this with the intention of tanking horoth ( with the shield mastery and DR) you do not have the required total HP to be able to do it safely, while 650 will probably be fine on hard but on elite you will be to reliant on luck to be a reliable tank.

If the goal is not to tank Horoth then you don't need to splash levels as every other boss in this game with the exception of maybe epic chrono can be safely tanked as a straight 20 sorc WF.

Even then for a boss like epic chrono evasion with a high reflex save would be much more useful than having a shield and the primary tank killing abilities are spells with a reflex save.

If you splashed 2 levels of monk you would be able to pick up 2 additional toughness feats as well as evasion, which you are capable of getting into the low 40s with a bit of effort raid buffed and high 30s self buffed. This allows you to do things like solo evon fire platform, walk through most epic traps without issue and vastly reduces damage from a lot of bosses spell damage.

Best savant choice for this build is air primarily due to knockdown immunity and wind dance, both offer a lot more flexibility in what you can offer as a tank.

Torq and conc opp will not give you enough SP to effectively tank for any length of time, even a quick kill like suulomades in TOD will require at least 4 or more pots to keep up the required damage output to keep threat, caster tanking with pure spells is incredibly mana inefficient and will require large amounts of pots.

Threat-wise you wont keep aggro versus any full 20 sorc who uses anything beyond his 2 dots and even then its likely they will pull aggro due to the additional 2 sorc levels. You will easily keep aggro against bad melee but decent melee will also give you a run for your money this mainly applies at the beginning of a fight as casters are slow to build up their dps unlike melee who are very front loaded.

Your intimidate is to low to be reliable and anything unreliable is the bane of tanking. If you cant reliably do something 99% of the time then it causes problems. Tanking is about reducing chance to the bare minimum.

An arcane tanks power comes from being a true self healing tank, you can tank any boss except horoth without requiring a healer. You will never have even half decent DCs, your nuking will be weak on any mob with evasion.
If anything you fulfill a support role in raids.

[Darknark]

This is going to be incredibly disjointed, bear with me.

I have been running a sorc tank for a little while now and there are a couple issues with your proposed build.

You need to decide what you are really trying to with this build, there are very few places where a dedicated tank is required and building a tank to be able to do most of these and building a tank to be able to take care of elite horoth are vastly different ball games.

If you have built this with the intention of tanking horoth ( with the shield mastery and DR) you do not have the required total HP to be able to do it safely, while 650 will probably be fine on hard but on elite you will be to reliant on luck to be a reliable tank.- Not really sure what my intent was, pretty much just messing around and trying to get a general idea of what is needed for an arcane to tank.

If the goal is not to tank Horoth then you don't need to splash levels as every other boss in this game with the exception of maybe epic chrono can be safely tanked as a straight 20 sorc WF.

Even then for a boss like epic chrono evasion with a high reflex save would be much more useful than having a shield and the primary tank killing abilities are spells with a reflex save.

If you splashed 2 levels of monk you would be able to pick up 2 additional toughness feats as well as evasion, which you are capable of getting into the low 40s with a bit of effort raid buffed and high 30s self buffed. This allows you to do things like solo evon fire platform, walk through most epic traps without issue and vastly reduces damage from a lot of bosses spell damage. - Unfortunately the reason for not taking monk was that I didn't have it, but I''m thinking of dropping one of the fighter levels and only taking shield mastery (15% instead of 20%).

Best savant choice for this build is air primarily due to knockdown immunity and wind dance, both offer a lot more flexibility in what you can offer as a tank.

Torq and conc opp will not give you enough SP to effectively tank for any length of time, even a quick kill like suulomades in TOD will require at least 4 or more pots to keep up the required damage output to keep threat, caster tanking with pure spells is incredibly mana inefficient and will require large amounts of pots. - Can't argue with this, but it would significantly extend the time that I could tank for, and the purpose of the intim dots were to allow other casters to max dot damage for a much faster kill without the worry of taking agro. EDIT: After getting a torc and dual conc-opps I must say that I no longer agree with you at all on this point. I tanked VOD at 16 on a variant of this build twice (one toughness, all levelups into Cha), both times someone displaced me after asking them not to. They also dropped a fog spell on sully so that I had miss chance from him too. So I was getting 50% less sp back from trash, and 20% less from sully, I was forced to use one single pot. The incoming damage isn't high enough to worry about (with 30+DR/-), in that case were I not displaced I would have had effectively infinite SP. Held aggro from pugs who didn't understand "wait 10 seconds so I can get a lead on agro" by equipping a ring of lies for 15% more threat gen.

Threat-wise you wont keep aggro versus any full 20 sorc who uses anything beyond his 2 dots and even then its likely they will pull aggro due to the additional 2 sorc levels. You will easily keep aggro against bad melee but decent melee will also give you a run for your money this mainly applies at the beginning of a fight as casters are slow to build up their dps unlike melee who are very front loaded. - With intim, it *should* hold agro *agian, intim was IP and was just 'assumed' that I would hit the levels, just don't have a breakdown yet.

Your intimidate is to low to be reliable and anything unreliable is the bane of tanking. If you cant reliably do something 99% of the time then it causes problems. Tanking is about reducing chance to the bare minimum. - Yes, the Intim is still In progress, for the purposes layed out, I was 'assuming' it would hit reliable levels.

An arcane tanks power comes from being a true self healing tank, you can tank any boss except horoth without requiring a healer. You will never have even half decent DCs, your nuking will be weak on any mob with evasion.- Can't argue with this, dedicated tanks often are support, but as said in the op this is not final, just examining a possibility atm.
If anything you fulfill a support role in raids.

Thanks for the input, still trying to get an idea of what I can sacrifice for more survivability. But the way it looks currently is now a 19/1 sorc/fighter that follows a more conventional sorc build, with the addition of shield mastery (and *perhaps* intimidate, but it would only be helpful in high dps parties)

[Kennyburns]

Agord it's probably KennyBurns next life!!!
It's more of an all around build then just "Tank Tank Tank!!!" because I don't wanna do just One thing.
I wanna be able to fulfill many rolls in a group
This is my version of your build that is DC built that still can hit ~650HP
Has more DPS because of 1 more sorc lvl, all I lose is 1 toughness(5hp how you have your feats set up)
-5 Con(Lvl ups)
When i gain 1 more lvl 9 and 8 spell and 125 Sp(Irresistible Dance and Wail)
+5 Cha(Lvl ups)


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.12.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 True Neutral Warforged Male
(1 Fighter \ 19 Sorcerer)
Hit Points: 298
Spell Points: 1891
BAB: 10\10\15\20
Fortitude: 15
Reflex: 6
Will: 10

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(36 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 8 10
Dexterity 8 10
Constitution 20 25
Intelligence 12 14
Wisdom 6 8
Charisma 16 25

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
+3 Tome of Charisma used at level 11

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 1 11
Bluff 3 8
Concentration 5 30
Diplomacy 3 7
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle 3 12
Heal -2 -1
Hide -1 0
Intimidate 3 7
Jump -1 0
Listen -2 -1
Move Silently -1 0
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 1 2
Search 1 2
Spot -2 -1
Swim -1 0
Tumble 1 8
Use Magic Device 5 18

Level 1 (Fighter)
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Sorcerer
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Wizard
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Shield Mastery
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 2 (Sorcerer)


Level 3 (Sorcerer)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell


Level 4 (Sorcerer)


Level 5 (Sorcerer)


Level 6 (Sorcerer)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Spell


Level 7 (Sorcerer)


Level 8 (Sorcerer)


Level 9 (Sorcerer)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell


Level 10 (Sorcerer)


Level 11 (Sorcerer)


Level 12 (Sorcerer)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Focus: Evocation


Level 13 (Sorcerer)


Level 14 (Sorcerer)


Level 15 (Sorcerer)
Feat: (Selected) Heighten Spell


Level 16 (Sorcerer)


Level 17 (Sorcerer)


Level 18 (Sorcerer)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Shield Mastery


Level 19 (Sorcerer)


Level 20 (Sorcerer)
Enhancement: Sorcerer Improved Empowering I
Enhancement: Sorcerer Improved Empowering II
Enhancement: Sorcerer Improved Heightening I
Enhancement: Sorcerer Improved Maximizing I
Enhancement: Sorcerer Improved Maximizing II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Sorcerer Air Savant I
Enhancement: Sorcerer Air Savant II
Enhancement: Sorcerer Air Savant III
Enhancement: Glacial Spellcasting I
Enhancement: Charged Spellcasting I
Enhancement: Charged Spellcasting II
Enhancement: Charged Spellcasting III
Enhancement: Charged Spellcasting IV
Enhancement: Charged Spellcasting V
Enhancement: Charged Spellcasting VI
Enhancement: Deadly Ice I
Enhancement: Deadly Shocks I
Enhancement: Deadly Shocks II
Enhancement: Deadly Shocks III
Enhancement: Deadly Shocks IV
Enhancement: Deadly Shocks V
Enhancement: Deadly Shocks VI
Enhancement: Frost Manipulation I
Enhancement: Frost Manipulation II
Enhancement: Frost Manipulation III
Enhancement: Frost Manipulation IV
Enhancement: Frost Manipulation V
Enhancement: Frost Manipulation VI
Enhancement: Storm Manipulation I
Enhancement: Storm Manipulation II
Enhancement: Storm Manipulation III
Enhancement: Storm Manipulation IV
Enhancement: Storm Manipulation V
Enhancement: Storm Manipulation VI
Enhancement: Storm Manipulation VII
Enhancement: Repair Manipulation I
Enhancement: Repair Manipulation II
Enhancement: Repair Manipulation III
Enhancement: Repair Manipulation IV
Enhancement: Repair Manipulation V
Enhancement: Repair Manipulation VI
Enhancement: Repair Manipulation VII
Enhancement: Sorcerer Energy of the Dragonblooded I
Enhancement: Sorcerer Energy of the Dragonblooded II
Enhancement: Sorcerer Charisma I
Enhancement: Sorcerer Charisma II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Warforged Constitution I
Enhancement: Warforged Constitution II
Enhancement: Warforged Healer's Friend I
Enhancement: Warforged Inscribed Armor I

[Darknark]

Agord it's probably KennyBurns next life!!!


Just a heads up, this post was made before I made Gordy... its a concept post... (ie: really really old brainstorming, so all my responses are not definative) and Ive changed things. Ill get you updated info later.

(And, yes, since I have made and played the build I have found that it does not require pots for anything really as was stated above)

Toughness is 22 hp... how are you getting a loss of 5? (and the con loss is another 60, the fighter level is some hp as well [6hp?]...and you have two less toughness enhances)

The dps boost from the 1 sorc level is minimal, the 5% dr from the fighter is IMO more of a boost than 1 CL (though the spell slots have potential)

IMO, Gordy isn't a just "tank tank tank" build.. slas and polar ray seem to cover standard sorc duties.. though my lack of necro is annoying at times.

Also: eww....you necro'd me with my own thread -.-, ill keep the rest of the conversation to pm.

[CrankVulcan]

I just finished a sorc life and I personally have found it disappointing. It seems that it is impossible to build a sorc that can be highly survivable and also land Insta-death and CC reliably.

Have you taken a look at Wiz PM for tanking? I built one a few lives ago and it was insane. The only problem is the lack of SP for long fights. But then again, who needs a huge SP pool when you have 3 sp procs?

The damage would be less of course but With anethema I was able to hold aggro against any caster not using one...

My first PM was WF and he swapped between DoD and Epic Docent of Night(equating to 24-29 passive DR).

He also had 2 monk levels. I will soon rotate back to PM and I'm not sure if I should take the monk splash again.

Evasion is huge but the capstone is huge too. With insightful reflexes, my reflex save will be in the high 30s even without raid buffs.


The self healing can become an issue as well if your dealing with huge burst damage. Melee damage wasn't a huge problem though. Demon consort bracers, 2 conc ops, Lich False life proc, boon of undeath, docent of defiance, and the Negative energy auras kept me up in amazingly high damage areas.

I soloed VoD without pots at lvl 16. It was time consuming but not really that difficult. At lvl 18(before I had lich form, Docent of Shadows and Epic gear, I tanked Horoth, sully, and a bunch of orthons after a party wipe in ToD. I was doing great and had no problem surviving melee damage. I ended up dying because the Cleric I raised tried to "relieve" me by taking orthon aggro away from me. That didn't end well. I think that if I were level 20, soloing the raid may have been doable. Guess I shouldn't have TR'd so quick.

This just goes to show that with enough gear and HP, a PM tank might work. Not saying it would be better...Just different.

You can get the high HP without Lvl ups into con.

When Legic gets back to PM, he should have around 640hp unbuffed. 640+20rage+40yugo+20ship=720selfbuffed.

He also will have 44 intelligence(42 if I decide to splash monk), 31 spell pen, and a 43 necro DC.

Planned Feats:

1 Toughness
2 SF: Necro
3 GSF: Necro
4 Insightful reflexes
5 Shield Proficiency
6 Shield Mastery
7 Wiz Past life/Improved Shield Mastery(depending on your priorities)

1 Maximize
2 Empower
3 Heighten
4 Quicken
5 Extend

[PadrePio]

If Fighter is just for feats, 2 Monk offers better saves and evasion. It does require finding a use for both feats... I suggest 2x Toughness. You are already taking two Toughness feats, so your feat layout remains identical.
Fighter gives you Free access to intimidate skill, monk doesn't. Also Fighter gives you shield profiency and access to shield mastery and improved shield mastery as bonus feats, monk doesn't :)

[korsat]

I just finished a sorc life and I personally have found it disappointing. It seems that it is impossible to build a sorc that can be highly survivable and also land Insta-death and CC reliably.

Have you taken a look at Wiz PM for tanking? I built one a few lives ago and it was insane. The only problem is the lack of SP for long fights. But then again, who needs a huge SP pool when you have 3 sp procs?

The damage would be less of course but With anethema I was able to hold aggro against any caster not using one...

My first PM was WF and he swapped between DoD and Epic Docent of Night(equating to 24-29 passive DR).

He also had 2 monk levels. I will soon rotate back to PM and I'm not sure if I should take the monk splash again.

Evasion is huge but the capstone is huge too. With insightful reflexes, my reflex save will be in the high 30s even without raid buffs.


The self healing can become an issue as well if your dealing with huge burst damage. Melee damage wasn't a huge problem though. Demon consort bracers, 2 conc ops, Lich False life proc, boon of undeath, docent of defiance, and the Negative energy auras kept me up in amazingly high damage areas.

I soloed VoD without pots at lvl 16. It was time consuming but not really that difficult. At lvl 18(before I had lich form, Docent of Shadows and Epic gear, I tanked Horoth, sully, and a bunch of orthons after a party wipe in ToD. I was doing great and had no problem surviving melee damage. I ended up dying because the Cleric I raised tried to "relieve" me by taking orthon aggro away from me. That didn't end well. I think that if I were level 20, soloing the raid may have been doable. Guess I shouldn't have TR'd so quick.

This just goes to show that with enough gear and HP, a PM tank might work. Not saying it would be better...Just different.

You can get the high HP without Lvl ups into con.

When Legic gets back to PM, he should have around 640hp unbuffed. 640+20rage+40yugo+20ship=720selfbuffed.

He also will have 44 intelligence(42 if I decide to splash monk), 31 spell pen, and a 43 necro DC.

Planned Feats:

1 Toughness
2 SF: Necro
3 GSF: Necro
4 Insightful reflexes
5 Shield Proficiency
6 Shield Mastery
7 Wiz Past life/Improved Shield Mastery(depending on your priorities)

1 Maximize
2 Empower
3 Heighten
4 Quicken
5 Extend

Sorry but why not dwarf? +2 wisdom over wf, +3 dr when blocking from dwarfs enhancments, +2 saves vs spells(can be +5 with enhancments).
This will work much better than wf if you are undead 99% of the time in quests.

And this is what I'm planning for my next wiz life (dwarf pure 20 wiz pm) and if I find it good also for my last. Thinking about going pure too, capstone(+2 int and lower spell cost) and a bit more sp(also with torc and conc opp) worth it.
Feats would be the same and I'll choose wiz past life instead of improved shield mastery (easy droppable for 5%dr imo)

Wondering if I could be able to solo vod also on a pure wiz on the trap part but I think yes.

[CrankVulcan]

Sorry but why not dwarf? +2 wisdom over wf, +3 dr when blocking from dwarfs enhancments, +2 saves vs spells(can be +5 with enhancments).
This will work much better than wf if you are undead 99% of the time in quests.

WF is only for the DoD....

When the Halloween event comes back around(or when I pull a Shroud of the Abbot) I might concider going human.

Until then the DoD is super nice. Plus Roboliches look cool. <--PRIORITY



Thinking about going pure too, capstone(+2 int and lower spell cost) and a bit more sp(also with torc and conc opp) worth it.

The only bad part about being a PM in tanking situations is the Burst damage from chain lightnings, or DBF/Meteor swarm. I'm going to try a Pure WF wiz PM as soon as I finish a Barb life. I have managed to fit a Ring of the Djinn into my permanent gear. I also have 3 elemental absorption GS weapons made for high elemental damage scenarios(VoN bases, ToD part 2, Echrono, Tor dragons if they ever go EPIC...)

The monk splash adds a HUGE amount of survivability. I guess you have to decide if you want to be mainly a tank or mainly a CC/Instakiller. I'll try the Pure wiz out and see how it compares...



Feats would be the same and I'll choose wiz past life instead of improved shield mastery (easy droppable for 5%dr imo)

Honestly I have considered Shield Mastery vs Improved Shield Mastery and it seems that Melee damage is not the problem on a PM. Of course if you plan to tank ELoB or Hard/Elite Horoth, that extra 5% can mean a lot.




Wondering if I could be able to solo vod also on a pure wiz on the trap part but I think yes.

Yes you surely could. Either heal through traps on normal, or hide in the nook on hard/elite...

[Darknark]

snip .

Heads up: The OP is very old and out of date

I, personally, have never understood the WF palemaster.
From my personal Min/Max perspective it makes no sense.
- It self heals worse than an AM, unless it drops form and loses its DCs.
- It takes extra damage from light (not too much of a deal, but more so now that mobs are being given the ability to stack DP on us)
- It has the same DC's in its primary as an Archmage's primary
- It has the same DC's in everything else as an Archmages secondary... but when do you really need that +X DC to an nth school?
- It cannot receive 'emergency' heals while main tanking things such as higher difficulty Lob and Tod.
- It cannot use silver flame pots to self heal in the water while maintanking Lob.

Note that I am not saying PM is bad, just that I does not fit my personal idea of gameplay and min/max.

@ the % DR

The % DR from shield feats is passive so long as you have a shield in your hand. This gives it a bit of an advantage.

You can use it while kiting/zerging without having to slow down.
It passively boosts your SP regen effeciency the entire time you have a shield on.

Additionally, the DR applies to many effects that other DR may not.
Most sources of physical damage will be reduced (shroud blades, lol, ....some spike traps..etc)


The fighter was for Intimi/sheilds and not having to be lawful.
That was only in theory. In reality I can not seem to get off my lazy rear and do my Barb lives / TR back to an intimi spec.
As far as the selfbuffed intimi break down goes, its still semi incomplete, but even in that state it reaches far above what is needed for everyraid currently in the game.

[CrankVulcan]

Heads up: The OP is very old and out of date

I, personally, have never understood the WF palemaster.
From my personal Min/Max perspective it makes no sense.
- It self heals worse than an AM, unless it drops form and loses its DCs.
- It takes extra damage from light (not too much of a deal, but more so now that mobs are being given the ability to stack DP on us)
- It has the same DC's in its primary as an Archmage's primary
- It has the same DC's in everything else as an Archmages secondary... but when do you really need that +X DC to an nth school?
- It cannot receive 'emergency' heals while main tanking things such as higher difficulty Lob and Tod.
- It cannot use silver flame pots to self heal in the water while maintanking Lob.

Note that I am not saying PM is bad, just that I does not fit my personal idea of gameplay and min/max.

You may be right and I'll have to give it a try anyway. I need another Wiz PL no matter what.

I do admit that being a PM makes me feel a little separate from the rest of a group.

AM loses too much in my opinion. Hp are hard to grab unless you put lvl in Con. The cooldown on reconstruct also hurts on a wizard.

Sorc reconstruct = 3 seconds

Wizard reconstruct = 5 seconds

PM burst = 3.5 seconds

Even tho the Burst is less SP efficient, I'd rather use it then reconstruct.

I suppose that's why Sorc has the best self healing in high burst damage situations....



@ the % DR

The % DR from shield feats is passive so long as you have a shield in your hand. This gives it a bit of an advantage.

You can use it while kiting/zerging without having to slow down.
It passively boosts your SP regen effeciency the entire time you have a shield on.

Additionally, the DR applies to many effects that other DR may not.
Most sources of physical damage will be reduced (shroud blades, lol, ....some spike traps..etc)


Yeah I'm all about Shield Mastery...just not sure about improved... I guess it's a personal build decision.