Please confirm multiple bugs, charging beasts

[MrWizard]

Uploaded a short video with just some of the inconsistencies I have found regarding minotaur charges. I am fairly sure this would also be seen in any other creature that charges too.

Please confirm with any other mobs that charge.

Short Video here: Blocking versus Angog the Champion in Von1, epic.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKXzwcsumNY

suggested to get a high res version, and stop/rewind. I slowed up the attacks.

The video shows the following..
(I have 39 DR blocking, 25% shield resistance when with shield blocking or not, many shots with stoneskin for 10dr, when with shield 6 from stalwart DR when not blocking.

1) Each charge gives Angog two attacks, not one.
2) In almost all cases a charge results in a knock backwards, even if all misses.
3) A miss almost always results in a save versus knockdown, however it may be due to one of the two hits landing.

4) I had stoneskin on, and it seems to list it as 'lawful damage reduction"
5) Both attacks completely ignored all types of active blocking DR.
6) It did pay attention to stalwart passive dr of 6, and I suppose stoneskin.

7) it did not appear that my 25% shield 'damage resistance' was useful either.
8) Wearing a shield brings up text that says 'D N T' at the end of it.....???

9) some of angog's attacks, the second one, attempted to land stunning blow.
10) his charge is piercing damage...so is his second attack. His normal attacks are slash.


so.....this seems really messed up.... Thought shield block helped a charge...it is actually completely useless and a complete waste to even do it since you get the knockdown roll anyway, even if he misses you, and no active DR at all..


please confirm with any other mobs that charge.


It would seem likely this works the same with the demon queen since I shield block when I talk to her and she knocks me down even though missing me....on casual. On higher difficulties I have not tested to see if she ignores dr when attacking during charge.

[puget]

I can only say, even on 'normal' slayer area mobs (gianthold anyone?) even when the minotaurs are several feet away from me when they charge, I get knocked down. The one that really irks me is when they can just stand in one spot, paw the ground, then, without even moving forward or backward, they just turn and knock me down while I am standing nose to nose fighting them.

Can't jump over them, even if you CAN jump over their charge, you get knocked down. Can't move out of their path even if you DO move out of their path, you are knocked down.

I have never don VoN, but being your mino is apparently a raid boss? I can only imagine he is doing way worse to you than 'normal' minotaurs.

[MrWizard]

I can only say, even on 'normal' slayer area mobs (gianthold anyone?) even when the minotaurs are several feet away from me when they charge, I get knocked down. The one that really irks me is when they can just stand in one spot, paw the ground, then, without even moving forward or backward, they just turn and knock me down while I am standing nose to nose fighting them.

Can't jump over them, even if you CAN jump over their charge, you get knocked down. Can't move out of their path even if you DO move out of their path, you are knocked down.

I have never don VoN, but being your mino is apparently a raid boss? I can only imagine he is doing way worse to you than 'normal' minotaurs.


I wanted to test it on a mob I knew could easily hit me and do enough damage to get through my DR, so I picked the epic von 1 quest, and red named angog for it...

jumping ovber them should work too.

[Rumbaar]

Hmmm, animations not matching actual attacks?

Like non THF not hitting 80% but the animation shows they are swinging.

A lot of things do not add up though, on and above that. Good video, all my rep is gone for today.

[Maitland]

just my experance..in epic von1,when they charge,the only time i get knocked down is when i am in the middle of a jump..but while fighting or moving i almost always get the evade message..i dunno man..

[MrWizard]

Hmmm, animations not matching actual attacks?

Like non THF not hitting 80% but the animation shows they are swinging.

A lot of things do not add up though, on and above that. Good video, all my rep is gone for today.

his normal attacks are slash, charge is pierce....in those double attacks they were both pierce.

one is like the knockdown and damage, the other seems to reinforce the knockdown, cause damage, and provide another attack like stunning blow....stun with a pierce weapon.????

[MrWizard]

just my experance..in epic von1,when they charge,the only time i get knocked down is when i am in the middle of a jump..but while fighting or moving i almost always get the evade message..i dunno man..

but if missed why knockdown roll? why get knocked back?

[Maitland]

i do get the knocked back thing as well,he kinda pushes me a few feet..i have never noticed the damage type though...i just kinda thought,even though he didnt knock me down,the force of his charge just...kinda...pushes me.

[Rumbaar]

one is like the knockdown and damage, the other seems to reinforce the knockdown, cause damage, and provide another attack like stunning blow....stun with a pierce weapon.????Isn't there armor that has spikes that causes piece damage. Not sure how NPC's gear is handled in regards to what we can have.

But yes if displaced or missed, not sure on the check. That seems off. Hopefully a Dev will see this.

[MrWizard]

yea, but to ignore all active dr completely?

I did not test with non-epic...so this may just be part of the epic 'over powering boo boo voo doo' stuff too....

hopefully others will take time and check it out.

[Jay203]

more like why are they trying to screw the shield users by not making the 25% reduction work :<

[MrCow]

1) Each charge gives Angog two attacks, not one.

For whatever reason, this is a Turbine change to Powerful Charge (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/minotaur.htm). In some ways it makes sense being it is an ability that requires a wind-up animation and you get gouged with both minotaur horns.


2) In almost all cases a charge results in a knock backwards, even if all misses.

This is the same behavior that occurs when a giant swings at you. The collision detection and physics DDO uses forces this to occur, regardless if you were physically hit.


3) A miss almost always results in a save versus knockdown, however it may be due to one of the two hits landing.

It is coded as two attack rolls for the horn gouges and a reflex save for being knocked over.


4) I had stoneskin on, and it seems to list it as 'lawful damage reduction"

Probably due to your Tharrak Bracers being on, which has DR 3/Law. The Law bit likely got carried into the Combat Log being a specific bypass (the other 2 forms of DR you have are non-bypass forms).


5) Both attacks completely ignored all types of active blocking DR.
7) it did not appear that my 25% shield 'damage resistance' was useful either.

The minotaur rush is probably coded as a semi-spell attack, much like traps. These ignore shield blocking, and likely physical percentage resistance granted by Shield Mastery.


6) It did pay attention to stalwart passive dr of 6, and I suppose stoneskin.

Just like how physical traps pay attention to DR as well.


9) some of angog's attacks, the second one, attempted to land stunning blow.

Some monsters have special attacks that occur on a critical hit, percentile roll, special animation, or whenever it is off cooldown. Any of these could play a role in this issue.


10) his charge is piercing damage...so is his second attack. His normal attacks are slash.

Cow horns, they poke well. :)


8) Wearing a shield brings up text that says 'D N T' at the end of it.....???
"DNT", while I don't remember what the abbreviation is for, is used by Turbine as a placeholder for text (such as a description, NPC dialogue, quest name they haven't yet named, and so on). They probably forgot to take it out of the Combat Log text for the Improved Shield Mastery [Tower Shield Version] effect description.

[Jay203]

i bet MrCow is in on this :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

[MrWizard]

wow...well...that is both awesome that you explained that and sad that it is coded that way....

makes no sense...but oh well....no blocking ever for charging mobs....bummer....

shield blocking should buffer or stop it...maybe knocked back but stop the knockdown..or like +10 to the save..
the dr should be active...since stoneskin and passive dr is..


sigh.

[MrCow]

wow...well...that is both awesome that you explained that and sad that it is coded that way....

makes no sense...but oh well....no blocking ever for charging mobs....bummer....

Just because something functions in a specific and discernible way doesn't mean it is correct though. A minotaur charge is fully physical and should:

Be subject to percentile physical damage reduction.
Be subject to Active Blocking DR.
Probably have the knockdown negated when shield blocking.
Not be subject to the knockdown when missed.
Use a Strength/Dexterity check to negate knockdown.
Have the "D N T" segment removed from the Shield Mastery Combat Log bit.
Not occur after said minotaur stops a charge and hits you 3 seconds later, yet still results in a "charged attack".

[MrWizard]

Just because something functions in a specific and discernible way doesn't mean it is correct though. A minotaur charge is fully physical and should:

Be subject to percentile physical damage reduction.
Be subject to Active Blocking DR.
Probably have the knockdown negated when shield blocking.
Not be subject to the knockdown when missed.
Use a Strength/Dexterity check to negate knockdown.
Have the "D N T" segment removed from the Shield Mastery Combat Log bit.
Not occur after said minotaur stops a charge and hits you 3 seconds later, yet still results in a "charged attack".



I remember I used to block the demon queen, and in shield block never had to worry about knockdown...at least as far as I remember..but now that is completely taken away and always need to make a roll (and fail a lot...)

This makes those minos really nasty, two hits with 2 side effect attacks, ignores DR, and still affects you if they miss...and you cannot jump over them.

from now on, I run to side and let the guy behind me take the damage.


Ithink they should change this.