20th end rewards on saturated lootlists

[Havok.cry]

So I ran my 20th Demon Queen last night, got my end reward and found out that it had not one single item i wanted for my character... have to run another 20 for what I want... this seems like a bit much. As I understand it the 20th run reward was added in to make it so you had a hope of actually acquiring the gear you wanted before you die of old age. Looking at the amount of raidloot that can drop and running some statistical numbers I am losing hope that I will get the items I want on my 40th run or even my 60th. I know other raids suffer from this as well as DQ. I know I am not the only one to suffer from this, so I am adding my voice to those calling for an improvement to the system.

Please Turbine, make the loot generated for the 20th rewards either:

1-Filterable before generated so a player selects various modifiers like tank, dps, caster, healer, stealther, archer, thf, twf, class, or pre, and then receives choices that he/she might actually be able to use in his current life.

2-Generated by class if that option is clicked in the options menu

3-12-15 choices instead of 8... maybe even more

4-all the raidloot from that raid as options

[Drekisen]

I'd like it if they would do something new with the 20th completion list as well.......as it stands now tho, if I don't really particularly like running a certain raid.......I'll only do it casually.

Out of all the characters I have capped, and it's quite a few, I think I only have like maybe 2-3 raids total between them that I actually went to a 20th with....besides The Shroud of course. :D

[Krago]

So I ran my 20th Demon Queen last night, got my end reward and found out that it had not one single item i wanted for my character... have to run another 20 for what I want... this seems like a bit much. As I understand it the 20th run reward was added in to make it so you had a hope of actually acquiring the gear you wanted before you die of old age. Looking at the amount of raidloot that can drop and running some statistical numbers I am losing hope that I will get the items I want on my 40th run or even my 60th. I know other raids suffer from this as well as DQ. I know I am not the only one to suffer from this, so I am adding my voice to those calling for an improvement to the system.

Please Turbine, make the loot generated for the 20th rewards either:

1-Filterable before generated so a player selects various modifiers like tank, dps, caster, healer, stealther, archer, thf, twf, class, or pre, and then receives choices that he/she might actually be able to use in his current life.

2-Generated by class if that option is clicked in the options menu

3-12-15 choices instead of 8... maybe even more

4-all the raidloot from that raid as options

There is an option already that filters end rewards based on class. Most Divines remove this as they tire of seeing the Improved Devotion shields.

But Im sure this option only affects random generated loot and not named items.

[Drekisen]

There is an option already that filters end rewards based on class. Most Divines remove this as they tire of seeing the Improved Devotion shields.

But Im sure this option only affects random generated loot and not named items.

Yeah that option has no effect on 20th raid lists.

[AMDarkwolf]

Its much worse than it was. Before one of the recent updates the list was longer and almost always had a few tomes to pick too. Now i see 6-7 choices max, and usually none of the items are even good for my char.

IDK what turbine decided to do to them, but now 20ths(a LOT of them, i think before I tred atma I finished 40 runs on all raids) were just renown or 'whatever npc'ed for the most'

[DaSawks]

The 20th RAID completion needs to have a static reward. Why run the RAID 20 times then? The Shroud has the essence of cleansing. I am running Reavers 20x for the napkin and DQ for the Torc.

/signed.

[Drekisen]

4-all the raidloot from that raid as options

I have suggested this option many many times and it would be completely fair with the addition of one limitation.

It's one time only for the current life you are on.

You can still get any piece of gear from the warded chest, but you only get one full list and it's on your 20th.

After that, no more, until you TR.

This guarantees you will at least get one item you really want by your 20th run.

I know I would be 10x more prone to do a raid if this was the case, and it's more doable now that the TR system is in place.

[svinja]

I have suggested this option many many times and it would be completely fair with the addition of one limitation.

It's one time only for the current life you are on.

You can still get any piece of gear from the warded chest, but you only get one full list and it's on your 20th.

After that, no more, until you TR.

This guarantees you will at least get one item you really want by your 20th run.

I know I would be 10x more prone to do a raid if this was the case, and it's more doable now that the TR system is in place.

I don't really see the point of this limitation.

[rest]

My cleric ran DQ 60 times before he finally got a torc. He has almost every other piece of raid loot from that god forsaken raid.

[bebeosita]

The 20th RAID completion needs to have a static reward. Why run the RAID 20 times then? The Shroud has the essence of cleansing. I am running Reavers 20x for the napkin and DQ for the Torc.

/signed.


/signed too

im in the same dilema atm farming and farming and no luck with rewards in quest like tod .(need few more to adq)

[Drekisen]

I don't really see the point of this limitation.

I think it would be a huge upgrade compared to how it is now. You can literally go 60-100 or more runs before getting the exact item you want currently...with this system, yeah you only get the list once, but it's absolutely guaranteed you will get it by the 20th.


Something that good has to be a limited time offer.

Plus you would still be able to get the items from the warded chest infinitely if you were looking for more than one piece.

[Bladedge]

I also would like all the raid items on 20th completion list.
Other games give you tokens and let you purchase from a list of all the items once you collected enough tokens in DDO similar system minus the tokens and yet we can't even be given a full list.

Gets disappointing and depressing after running the raid so many times to have the item you looking for never show up. This where I juts log off and play something for a very long while especially if its the 40th or 60th on multiple characters.

[Kinerd]

I think the best possible solution is to allow the player to set an option:

EITHER

An x% chance at whatever item in the chest

OR

A y * x number of tokens in the chest, where y is some universal number between 0 and 1 (for instance, 0.75) and it requires 100 tokens to purchase whatever item.

This way, people can choose better overall chances or clearly defined incremental progress. Ideally the tokens could be passed in the chest just like items.

[zavozod]

After your 20th completion u get a "token". You take this token to RAID BOSS npc to turn in for your pic of Raid loot from that raid. One of everything is available to pick from. Same goes for epics. Shards,seals,scrolls,tomes etc.

[Zildoran]

I don't agree on the scrolls, but for everything else yes.

[Flavilandile]

Once upon a time, fixed loot lists on completion ( be it raid 20th or standard quest chain completion ) made some people unhappy... they fixed that by 'replacing' the fixed list by a semi fixed list :
- you have a chance that some of the raid/quest fixed items appear on the list.
- you have vendor trash replacing some of the raid/quest item in the list.

That was long ago, and that was because everybody was Farming Threnal like there was no tomorrow for a Retribution and the Full Plate.

Personnally I'd like to go back to that fixed list ( containing all the quest/raid loot ) without any vendor trash in it.
That would allow people to get what they want from the quests without having to farm them numerous time.
And for the 20th raid completion that would allow people to get the item they want if they didn't get it from the chest. ( and if they want more they can always keep farming the raid )

[GotSomeQuestions]

I ran the numbers to see what the odds were to even see a Torc on your 20th DQ completion: about 50% (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?p=3967518). That means about one in four players will not see a Torc on their 20th OR 40th completion (although there's about a 1% chance to pull the item in the chest, too). Not very encouraging, if it wasn't the best caster item in the game, I'm not sure I'd keep farming for it.

[KillEveryone]

If a raid has more named stuff than what will fit on the end reward list, I'd like to see the 40th completion list all the stuff that didn't get put on the 20th completion. Any other slots left on the list can be random named stuff.

For the 60th it would be random again and the 80th it would be anything that didn't appear on the 60th with left over slots be random named stuff.

If you are looking for two pieces of loot and it didn't drop in the chest, you would eventually get what you are looking for before 100 runs.

I don't mind running the quest but after a point, I'd like to be able to get my loot.

[somenewnoob]

I really think the 20th should have EVERY piece of raid loot for the raid available for selection. (Oh I'm ready for your easy button flames! Lets go!! lol)

I am a casual player and when I get to my 20th ADQ......if those mother ******* bracers aren't in there......RAGEQUIT!! lol

[Gkar]

As I understand it the 20th run reward was added in to make it so you had a hope of actually acquiring the gear you wanted before you die of old age.

Actually no. When the new system was announced people who were good at stats proved that you ended up with slighly less loot than the old 2 guarenteed drops/raid that was given previously and the 20th list was put in as a correcting mechanism.


That said I've always argued that either a bigger list to choose from or a 100% list on the first 20th would be good approaches to increase the fun factor.

[BrightAsh]

I really think the 20th should have EVERY piece of raid loot for the raid available for selection. (Oh I'm ready for your easy button flames! Lets go!! lol)


/signed
It is not an easy button, DQ's got a lot of great items. I for one would love the green blade and the Torc to start with. 20 runs guarantees only 1 of those, so i'd have to run it another 20 times... doing 20 runs before getting anything is not an easy button imo

[Neverwinterer]

Totally /signed

All raid named items should be in the 20th completion reward list. Can you imagine a Shroud 20th completion with a 50% drop of the cleansing token? It seems just the same to me.

People may argue that this would break the fun, but I still don't see the fun on repeating some raids every three days... 60 times! that's six months of constant work!!! I could build a house with a hammer and my bare hands in that time! And I am a programmer, know nothing about house building!!! I'm even supposing that the player is finding an appropriate group formed, or that he creates the group and people joins, and we all know it doesn't happen all the time.

Yet if this first option breaks the fun or the economy, make all BtC/BtA loot should appear on the 20th completion list. There is no other way to get them, no trade, no AH. Grinding is fine, grinding is fun, but I believe 2 months of real time investment should be gratified.

Yet if this option makes things "too easy" for some people farming with multiple characters... then make all BtC loot appear in the 20th reward list. There is no other way in the game to get these items. You can't pass them, you can't trade them, you have to loot them. And if someone thinks that 1% repeated a hundred times it's 100%, they are wrong.

If randomness and unrewarding efforts were soooo fun, we would be playing lottery instead of DDO.

It can't hurt anyone. And yet, if any player is disturbed about "how easy it is", hey, these players can pick any other thing... Wow, look at this shiney +1 ghost touch dagger of shattermantle!!! Torc is too easy to get, i'll wait for another 20 completions and get the dagger instead.

Now, speaking more seriously, farming items is an important part of the game. But what happens when farmers gets nothing from their crops... they stop farming and move the big city (and by that, I mean leaving the game). I almost did when the 100 Palumak's chest had inside a bloodstone, but the gem, not the magic item (it was before the name change). And no, never got one in the more than 150 chests I have opened until now.

Sorry for the whining and the long post. I'll make a new char and kill some frustatio... err, I mean Kobolds in waterworks. ;)

[svinja]

I think it would be a huge upgrade compared to how it is now. You can literally go 60-100 or more runs before getting the exact item you want currently...with this system, yeah you only get the list once, but it's absolutely guaranteed you will get it by the 20th.


Something that good has to be a limited time offer.

Plus you would still be able to get the items from the warded chest infinitely if you were looking for more than one piece.

An upper limit of 6 months of doing a raid every 3 days to get 3 (base, not even epic yet) items does not seem excessively short to me. :D

[Havok.cry]

An upper limit of 6 months of doing a raid every 3 days to get 3 (base, not even epic yet) items does not seem excessively short to me. :D

It would be fine.... if they were items useful for you character... honestly I vendor trash all the maralith chains and chaosblades I keep pulling because my WF PM isn't using them, and neither are the 11 other casters that are the only people willing to run DQ repeatedly.... they vendor trash them too cause their tired of 20, 40, 60 and the worst ive heard of is 80 runs with not a single torc/gr4eenblade/demonbracers/staff of arcane power dropping in the chests or in th ened rewards.

[Jahmin]

When the new system was announced people who were good at stats proved that you ended up with slighly less loot than the old 2 guarenteed drops/raid that was given previously and the 20th list was put in as a correcting mechanism.

Significantly less actually :mad:

[charlescrowe]

I ran the numbers to see what the odds were to even see a Torc on your 20th DQ completion: about 50% (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?p=3967518). That means about one in four players will not see a Torc on their 20th OR 40th completion (although there's about a 1% chance to pull the item in the chest, too). Not very encouraging, if it wasn't the best caster item in the game, I'm not sure I'd keep farming for it.

this makes me feel bad that i got both of my torcs on the very first run on both my Cleric and my Favored Soul :| on topic, i'd just rather the drop rates get increased. (if only by 1 or 2 percent.) i kinda like my non-named (read: tomes) in the list.