DDO remembers 1980 RPGs

[rodrigocaruso]

With the HUGE non-mapped areas this game reminds me of some low resources RPGs. Pretty unpolished for a game expecting constant payment. I've got a disconnection in a quest and I would NEVER return to where team is because of this. I think this is a unfinished game. Got not loot and stood for several minutes just to get some XP still being useless to team. This is not a good experience RPG.

In a 12 raid team is nearly impossible to organize and inform team without some old-fashioned directions, and a lot of time spent stopping to combine where to go and seek who is where and confirming that no one is missing. We spend more time organizing than actually doing something important. Every time team pass trough a portal or a corner things get weird and the fear of loosing someone appear.

Game experience just got screwed by laziness to draw a little 2D map in a full 3D game, impressive...

This game get more and more unpolished as levels go by. Maybe turbine thinks in earning money and convincing people to stop playing with great polished low level quests and just confusing some unpolished quests with challenge creation to not do their job in high level quests. No mapping would be OK as a challenge in a solo game, but in a 12 player instance is just poor judgement.

Well, just my opinion.

[ArkoHighStar]

this is an instance based game, if you want large public outdoor areas, there are plenty of games that fit that bill.This is not a failure of DDO, but a feature that sets it apart.

[Vordax]

this is an instance based game, if you want large public outdoor areas, there are plenty of games that fit that bill.This is not a failure of DDO, but a feature that sets it apart.

Reading between the lines, I think he is whining about the map in Tempest Spine, its always sucked, and probably will not be fixed. Currently the map engine doesn't support a 3d rendering, only 2d and when you have "mini-instances" within other instances the map doesn't work right.

Vordax

[Elegorne]

Ummmm....errrrrr.....trying reallllly hard...but....what?!?!?

[madmaxhunter]

Reading between the lines, I think he is whining about the map in Tempest Spine, its always sucked, and probably will not be fixed. Currently the map engine doesn't support a 3d rendering, only 2d and when you have "mini-instances" within other instances the map doesn't work right.

Vordax

That was my take on it also. Yeah, it bites. Adapt and overcome.

[rjbutchko]

Yeah, definately sounds like Tem. Spine. Run it a few times and you learn it ut it definitely IS a little frustrating at first. There are other quests where the map is useless as well. Deeps comes to mind immediately. Then there is always Wiz King, whose map is useless to first timers for other reasons (floor overlap) but with time and repetition (and we all know this is a game of repetition) it gets easier.

Personally, as much as more usable mini maps would be nice, I think I would rather see that energy put into more new content.

[MaxwellEdison]

Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

[TheDjinnFor]

Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

Yes, items.

[DoctorWhofan]

Reading between the lines, I think he is whining about the map in Tempest Spine, its always sucked, and probably will not be fixed. Currently the map engine doesn't support a 3d rendering, only 2d and when you have "mini-instances" within other instances the map doesn't work right.

Vordax

Did someone say Tempest's Spine???? :p

Probably the worst offender of the map issue, and that has killed more new players than any one kind of mob out there.

EDIT: if it is Tempest's Spine, let me know. IF you are on a server I have a toon at the correct level, I would be happy to run it with you.

as for Raids, I have never taken more than 15minutes to fill a raid...and that was at off peak times.

[Qindark]

Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

What?!?!

[Delt]

Oww, my brain hurts.


Reading between the lines, I think he is whining about the map in Tempest Spine, its always sucked, and probably will not be fixed. Currently the map engine doesn't support a 3d rendering, only 2d and when you have "mini-instances" within other instances the map doesn't work right.

Vordax

Yes, I gathered TS too. Probably got lost, got berated then rage quit. Given his communication skills, it all seems like it probably would have been pretty awesome to see in person.

On the issue of maps, it is pretty lazy. Hell, even Ultima Online manages mapping better than DDO.

[oganos]

Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

Am I missing a joke here? Cause those look like English words, but...

[MrkGrismer]

Am I missing a joke here? Cause those look like English words, but...

Google is your friend: http://www.google.com/search?q=%22Has+anyone+really+been+far+even+as+dec ided+to+use+even+go+want+to+do+look+more+like%3F%2 2&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a


In regards to the map issue. Yes; the mini-map in ddo is the absolute 'suckiest' I have ever encountered. Most of the time it is barely better than no map at all, and sometimes worse.

[Schmoe]

Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

Yes, items.

Edit: Doh, ninjaed!

[Missing_Minds]

Reading between the lines, I think he is whining about the map in Tempest Spine, its always sucked, and probably will not be fixed. Currently the map engine doesn't support a 3d rendering, only 2d and when you have "mini-instances" within other instances the map doesn't work right.

Vordax

right up till he said 12 man, I was thinking the pit myself.

[gogetta101]

So this game is an unpolished game because you ran Tempest Spine and was with a noobish pug who perhaps didnt know the raid..?

[brian14]

I am not sure that's what OP meant, but have to agree that maps in DDO often leave much to be desired. DDO has some (not a lot, but some) dungeons which are true three-dimensional mazes, as opposed to just several horizontal levels stacked on top of each other. The Pit and Chamber of Coalescence are obvious examples; I am not sure about Tempest Spine as I only ran it twice and just followed others' lead. In these dungeons you get hopelessly lost if you do not have good spacial imagination, or a three-dimensional map. DDO does not provide you such map, so people with poor spacial imagination (like me) find these dungeons incredibly frustrating. Chamber of Coalescence is not a problem for me any more, but only because I painstakingly drew a diagram of all shafts and connecting tunnels, and now refer to it.

There are other quests where the map is useless as well. Deeps comes to mind immediately.
Do you mean "Into the Deep?" If yes, I agree, although the issue here is different. "Into the Deep" map shows the entire underwater complex. When you are inside any structure it still just shows the "outdoors" -- there are no maps for individual buildings at all. So here it is not "useless 2-D projection of a 3-D maze" -- it is no map at all.

I think here devs reused the code for outdoor areas, where once you enter a cave or tomb (usually with a rare encounter inside) no separate map for it is provided. Difference is, these caves or tombs are usually[1] small enough that you do not need a map.

[1]Usually. Once I got lost in Wildman Cave in Ataraxia and had to recall. And couple times I missed some side passages in Sorrowdusk caves.

[Missing_Minds]

Game experience just got screwed by laziness to draw a little 2D map in a full 3D game, impressive...

I keep on thinking back to this and his 1980s comment... and I finally realized what was nibbling in the back of my head.

Easy button. Back in those days, you had to make your own freaking maps. I'm guessing the OP never had to make his own map before, let alone table top.

[Vordax]

]Usually. Once I got lost in Wildman Cave in Ataraxia and had to recall. And couple times I missed some side passages in Sorrowdusk caves.

My wife has no spatial awareness either.. she could get lost in the Haverdasher.

Vordax

[Delt]

I keep on thinking back to this and his 1980s comment... and I finally realized what was nibbling in the back of my head.

Easy button. Back in those days, you had to make your own freaking maps. I'm guessing the OP never had to make his own map before, let alone table top.

I don't even remember games that required maps back then (and to be honest, a lot of that stuff came with awesome manuals/etc ..."turn to page 222, word 15"...lol). Maybe in the late 80's early 90's, with Might & Magic and some of the SSI stuff (go go Buck Rogers!).

[azrael4h]

I keep on thinking back to this and his 1980s comment... and I finally realized what was nibbling in the back of my head.

Easy button. Back in those days, you had to make your own freaking maps. I'm guessing the OP never had to make his own map before, let alone table top.

Just think if he ran into some spinners. ;) Bet we'd REALLY hear it then.

[Funny_looking_mole]

Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

You’ve got to be kidding me. I’ve been further even more decided to use even go need to do look more as anyone can. Can you really be far even as decided half as much to use go wish for that? My guess is that when one really been far even as decided once to use even go want, it is then that he has really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like. It’s just common sense.

[MrkGrismer]

I keep on thinking back to this and his 1980s comment... and I finally realized what was nibbling in the back of my head.

Easy button. Back in those days, you had to make your own freaking maps. I'm guessing the OP never had to make his own map before, let alone table top.

I remember getting out the graph paper for Bard's Tale...

... and yes, I did not have to buy it specifically for Bard's Tale. Already had it because of PnP :D

[somenewnoob]

You know what really grinds my gears......those caves in the mountains in Adventure of Link! How am I supposed to find my way around without a map! Really!

[wisdomstorment]

Did someone say Tempest's Spine????
EDIT: if it is Tempest's Spine, let me know. IF you are on a server I have a toon at the correct level, I would be happy to run it with you.


Not to derail the OP, but mind if I take you up on that offer in a couple of weeks time (if you have a toon on Khyber) when RL gives me the time to play again? :D

[puget]

You’ve got to be kidding me. I’ve been further even more decided to use even go need to do look more as anyone can. Can you really be far even as decided half as much to use go wish for that? My guess is that when one really been far even as decided once to use even go want, it is then that he has really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like. It’s just common sense.


ROFL, and a +1 to you kind sir.

[Memnir]

Respect the time limit.

[ThePrincipal]

Yes the game is unfiinished as evident in incomplete class and racial pre's, frequent updates every few months, and game mechanics start to fall apart lvl 16+. You only mentioned the map, which is actually WAI. Keep playing it gets worse and better at the same time :)

[arch0njw]

http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj139/Kadinski/wharrgarbl-1.jpg

[boricua_in_cali]

Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?


What?!?!
Right?

Am I missing a joke here? Cause those look like English words, but...
I was thinking maybe a poor babelfish translation or some such..


Google is your friend: http://www.google.com/search?q=%22Has+anyone+really+been+far+even+as+dec ided+to+use+even+go+want+to+do+look+more+like%3F%2 2&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a
.

Oh... thank you, much better, anw might I add, OMG***BBQ. LOL'ling at work.

[boricua_in_cali]

You’ve got to be kidding me. I’ve been further even more decided to use even go need to do look more as anyone can. Can you really be far even as decided half as much to use go wish for that? My guess is that when one really been far even as decided once to use even go want, it is then that he has really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like. It’s just common sense.

OGz, you guys have me busting up at my desk, to the point my co-workers are asking what the hell is so **** funny.

LOLZ LOLZ.

[Fire_Godd]

I ..think.. I ..almost.. understood that.

Yeah. Tempest Spine Maps and a few others get kind of confusing with the seperate tiny instances.

That's the problem?

Solution:

Stick with the group, find better groups, pay attention, learn quest, forget about the map even being there.
Step 2: ??????
Step 3: Profit.

[Missing_Minds]

I don't even remember games that required maps back then (and to be honest, a lot of that stuff came with awesome manuals/etc ..."turn to page 222, word 15"...lol). Maybe in the late 80's early 90's, with Might & Magic and some of the SSI stuff (go go Buck Rogers!).

ARG! I freaking hated that form of copyright protection. "What is word 3 and page 34."

[Battlehawke]

Sound almost real, the way you say it. You have to organize and communicate with people before leading them on a great courageous battle and you might lose some people along the way....

Then it gets a little rough but true. DDO is a great game and if the only thing you have to pick it apart is "fog of war", then that's not so bad. I wouldn't want someone to go play some other lame MMO because it has better maps. Try to enjoy all the other fantastic qualities that DDO has to offer and just try to think of the problems as "lifelike". Someday, Turbine will make this better. They have discussed that it is something that they are looking at.

[arch0njw]

ARG! I freaking hated that form of copyright protection. "What is word 3 and page 34."

Yeah, because it was like we lived in a world without copy machines... code wheels also were very amusing.

[uhgungawa]

Respect the time limit.

Run, my allies.

[Cam_Neely]

I still think there should be a skill Knowledge:Cartography or something of the sort. How many PnP barbs will keep a detailed, scaled map?

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=295443

[Schmoe]

Run, my allies.

Kill the boss, forget the rest.

[MrWizard]

well, you are new it seems and it takes time to get used to any game. Even backgammon.

all games are made to be repeated (ever play chess, checkers, or backgammon, or solitaire?)

You understand more as you go.

Where you are going is hard to tell though, your post kinda skips about and changes direction with little info to help. But I get you are frustrated and expected something else.

it is free.

[FrancisP.Fancypants]

Yeah, because it was like we lived in a world without copy machines... code wheels also were very amusing.

GAHH! Dungeon Hack, freakin Dungeon Hack! My copy didn't even have a code wheel, instead they printed a list of the password combinations and stuck it in the game box.

[bnrilfun]

in the 80's all you needed was some Graph paper and every dungeon in the game could be mapped to a T

Now with zones that mimic real life terrain graph paper mapping is out the window, you just have to live with it. Luckily some very nice people have done great jobs of exloring every square inch of the zone and have posted said to dozen's of websites.

In regards to forming groups/raids, you get good ones you get bad ones when you dont have a full group of friends that know what is going on.

This is part of what makes the game unique IMO.

Take some time, find some people willing to show you the map and the zone. Once you have memorized the zone/path it makes life bearable.

[Pfold]

With the HUGE non-mapped areas this game reminds me of some low resources RPGs.

Here's a tip for 'low resource' mapping: graph paper. Yes, graph paper (the type with little squares all over it) has helped millions of people combat 'low resource' games for decades now. If you feel DDO is such a game then I suggest you trying that.


Pretty unpolished for a game expecting constant payment. I've got a disconnection in a quest and I would NEVER return to where team is because of this.

Sounds like to me you should pony up for either a hardware upgrade or switch to a better isp. You could even switch to f2p (DDO is cool like that) if you are short on money for the upgrades on your end.

I think this is a unfinished game. Got not loot and stood for several minutes just to get some XP still being useless to team. This is not a good experience RPG.

You are absolutely right that it is an 'unfinished' game. I mean, how could it be complete if they keep adding new content every three months? Shame on them :D

In a 12 raid team is nearly impossible to organize and inform team without some old-fashioned directions, and a lot of time spent stopping to combine where to go and seek who is where and confirming that no one is missing. We spend more time organizing than actually doing something important. Every time team pass trough a portal or a corner things get weird and the fear of loosing someone appear.

Unfortunately, a lot of new folks aren't gifted with knowing the content prior to their first time encountering it. Though I'm not sure what you are really complaining about. It seems like you kept getting lost and complained about the map. Someone probably had to go back and get you and then you got upset by having to wait on someone else. Only one word is coming to mind atm and it is.... wait for it.... WINNING!

Game experience just got screwed by laziness to draw a little 2D map in a full 3D game, impressive...

I have to agree with you. I mean those other party members had to wait around for you to reconnect and then come and get you all thewhile probably having to listen or read what you were typing/saying about how aweful the game is. Surely their game experience was ruined.:)

This game get more and more unpolished as levels go by. Maybe turbine thinks in earning money and convincing people to stop playing with great polished low level quests and just confusing some unpolished quests with challenge creation to not do their job in high level quests. No mapping would be OK as a challenge in a solo game, but in a 12 player instance is just poor judgement.

Following eleven other people is really tough. Between 11 blue dots on the map, voice chat, party chat it can get really tough on someone, especially if they cannot standwaiting on others, even if it's to get them :eek:

As far as no mapping being acceptable as being challenging in solo play, I can only guess that it is just too challenging for you when the are 11 other people there? Is the quest really that confusing to you? I only ask because I can save you the time by stating that the quests actually get more difficult as the level range increases.

Well, just my opinion.

lewlz