eToken trade in for eShard/seals

[stille_nacht]

simple proposition:

100 tokens- shard of your choice
75 tokens- seal of your choice.

i dont think anyone will argue that this is a "low" price or easy button (is it? i can raise it even more, perhaps limit to raid tokens...).
just think there should be some sort of thing to combat really bad luck.

EDIT: shade's idea :]


Easy enough to solve the naysayers "never ran the hard content, or "equip all my gimped alts cuz im an awesome farmer but suck at epic questing on X char" idea:

Require 20 epic completions on the character for the related quest/raid the shard drops in. And set the shards/seals to BTC.

Then youd have a system that essentially works the same as the current raid 20x end reward.. Only for epic, at a 5x higher cost. (or well 2.5x higher cost if you only run von5/EA, but yea they are hard enough for that to be fair)

I think i have a suggestion with a similar more expanded idea floating around somewhere.. Mine includes scrolls too, as at least for the desert ones tend to be the craziest part for some unlucky players (30 reds for a marilith? bit much)

EDIT: perhaps the amount could be variable, unsure how you would determine that fairly though.

[Rubiconn]

Dungeon tokens can be xchanged for raid tokens 1:1 so it doesnt matter which one you make it.

I would rather see the drop rate increase than make a way to grind them out.

[The_Brave2]

Some items are really rare because they need to be really rare. for 100 tokens I cant get a free shard? Farm the easy to farm epics untill you get what you want. I have a similar sugestion to this Here (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=332502) where I propose a similar idea, but not with seal/shards, with scrolls.

Imo, doing something like this for seal/shards would make all my toons have eSoS and redscale, because I can easily farm out 100 tokens by running the easily farmable epics each day. Especially since I can swap tokens inbetween toons.

Increasing the cost isnt going to fix it either, there would be more debate of Casual Vs. Powergamer.

[peng]

How about trade a seal/shard and 50 epic tokens for another seal/shard from the same quest/quest chain? That way you still have to farm the correct content, but you can still compensate for bad luck,

[The_Brave2]

How about trade a seal/shard and 50 epic tokens for another seal/shard from the same quest/quest chain? That way you still have to farm the correct content, but you can still compensate for bad luck,

Shard of the necklace of the azure prophesy and 50 tokens for a SoS shard? no.

[Shade]

Easy enough to solve the naysayers "never ran the hard content, or "equip all my gimped alts cuz im an awesome farmer but suck at epic questing on X char" idea:

Require 20 epic completions on the character for the related quest/raid the shard drops in. And set the shards/seals to BTC.

Then youd have a system that essentially works the same as the current raid 20x end reward.. Only for epic, at a 5x higher cost. (or well 2.5x higher cost if you only run von5/EA, but yea they are hard enough for that to be fair)

I think i have a suggestion with a similar more expanded idea floating around somewhere.. Mine includes scrolls too, as at least for the desert ones tend to be the craziest part for some unlucky players (30 reds for a marilith? bit much)

[The_Brave2]

Easy enough to solve the naysayers "never ran the hard content, or "equip all my gimped alts cuz im an awesome farmer but suck at epic questing on X char" idea:

Require 20 epic completions on the character for the related quest/raid the shard drops in. And set the shards/seals to BTC.

Then youd have a system that essentially works the same as the current raid 20x end reward.. Only for epic, at a 5x higher cost. (or well 2.5x higher cost if you only run von5/EA, but yea they are hard enough for that to be fair)

I think i have a suggestion with a similar more expanded idea floating around somewhere.. Mine includes scrolls too, as at least for the desert ones tend to be the craziest part for some unlucky players (30 reds for a marilith? bit much)

I Still argue that it would make it too easy to get some choice items. agian, eSoS being a huge one, 20 completions of e6 gets you the base item, it should take longer to get the epic item than the base.

Epic completions brings up an issue, what about something like eItD? only 20 days would be required to get the shard you need. More powerfull Epic items should be harder to get, and something like not finding the item you want on your 20th reward would just anger people even more.

In your idea, would all shards/seals be BTC or looted ones would be BTC also?

BTC looted shards/seals seems like a bad idea, I like being able to help my other toons.

[stille_nacht]

i decided that in light of particular weapons (eSoS, eMarilith Chain, eRing of SS), that the token requirements should be doubled, so there. Just imagine a high enough amount, add shade's pre req. done.

[Egeus]

Shard of the necklace of the azure prophesy and 50 tokens for a SoS shard? no.

Why not? You're just as (un)likely to get that Shard as any other.

Now, there is some danger that this would lead to people looting stuff they didn't need, rather than putting it up for roll, especially with multiple characters. That's hardish to correct for, but there are still options:

a) make the conversion recipe something you can only use every, say, 30 days (on an account-wise basis)
b) make the conversion recipe take (in addition to tokens) a type of item that only gets offered as an Epic-only 20th reward, and is particular to the quest series.

I would think that either of these should keep people for stockpiling more than a handful of shards/seals. Honestly, after seeing Hellfire Crossbow seals drop in run after run after run and never seeing an Envenomed Cloak Seal... I would love an opportunity to trade in some "trash".

[Horkrux]

I do like shades idea.

How ever if raid completion is 20 completions and you get a chance at the loot it should be doubled or trippled for epics since the timer is way less.

my $0.02

[The_Brave2]

i decided that in light of particular weapons (eSoS, eMarilith Chain, eRing of SS), that the token requirements should be doubled, so there. Just imagine a high enough amount, add shade's pre req. done.

I like the idea of 20 completions of said epic, along with the token requirement, but it should only be for shards.. Seals are easy enough to farm every day and adds some element of a farm to it, without the possibility of, well i'll just wait for my 20th.

[The_Brave2]

Why not? You're just as (un)likely to get that Shard as any other.

Now, there is some danger that this would lead to people looting stuff they didn't need, rather than putting it up for roll, especially with multiple characters. That's hardish to correct for, but there are still options:

a) make the conversion recipe something you can only use every, say, 30 days (on an account-wise basis)
b) make the conversion recipe take (in addition to tokens) a type of item that only gets offered as an Epic-only 20th reward, and is particular to the quest series.

I would think that either of these should keep people for stockpiling more than a handful of shards/seals. Honestly, after seeing Hellfire Crossbow seals drop in run after run after run and never seeing an Envenomed Cloak Seal... I would love an opportunity to trade in some "trash".

If I could trade in 50 tokens + a shard for a eSoS shard, or a shard of the red dragon, or a chaosblade shard all of my toons would have said epics.

Epic gear is 'Epic' for a reason, lets not make it a cake walk to gear up our toons

[Egeus]

Epic gear is 'Epic' for a reason, lets not make it a cake walk to gear up our toons

Getting the shard in the first place, and having 20 epic completions, AND having the tokens to do it is hardly a cakewalk. Just for time alone it's a minimum of 60 days. How long should you have to grind for a single piece of best-of-class gear?

[The_Brave2]

Getting the shard in the first place, and having 20 epic completions, AND having the tokens to do it is hardly a cakewalk. Just for time alone it's a minimum of 60 days. How long should you have to grind for a single piece of best-of-class gear?

My origonal responce was to a suggestion not including a completion timer, so I responded to your suggestion under the same assumption. if you scroll up I say that I like the idea of tokens + completions for shards.

[Egeus]

My origonal responce was to a suggestion not including a completion timer, so I responded to your suggestion under the same assumption. if you scroll up I say that I like the idea of tokens + completions for shards.

TBH I'm not seeing that, even in your linked post. Nothing says eliminating the timer, either in your original post, or your response to peng.

In any event, I don't mean to suggest that mine is the only or even best way, just that there's nothing inherently unbalanced in requiring an existing shard as one component to create another.

[The_Brave2]

TBH I'm not seeing that, even in your linked post. Nothing says eliminating the timer, either in your original post, or your response to peng.

In any event, I don't mean to suggest that mine is the only or even best way, just that there's nothing inherently unbalanced in requiring an existing shard as one component to create another.


How about trade a seal/shard and 50 epic tokens for another seal/shard from the same quest/quest chain? That way you still have to farm the correct content, but you can still compensate for bad luck,

my response to this was that 50 tokens + shard was a bad idea, the suggestion of 20 completions was not along with this suggestion..

I also said:

"I like the idea of 20 completions of said epic, along with the token requirement, but it should only be for shards.. Seals are easy enough to farm every day and adds some element of a farm to it, without the possibility of, well i'll just wait for my 20th."

So yes, I agree with that Idea.

[stille_nacht]

where is the 50 token+ shard thing coming form o-o? never said anything about that...

[haku-ba]

It would appear that this discussion is leading to something along the lines of crafting for epic shards/seals. You get the ingredients (whatever they are) and then you can trade/grind/craft them into the thing you are looking for.

Since this is pretty much the way crystal cove worked and is also along the lines of what Fernando mentioned (if i am recalling correctly), this would seem like a reasonable idea.

So the sticking point comes down to how much of what do you need to get a shard/seal of your choice? I am definitely in favor of being able to 'swap' stuff for shards/seals and even scrolls. Power creep is an issue, so I do also believe the ability to swap for stuff needs to be 'earned'.

I think Shade's idea to make each toon accountable before being able to get an epic shard/seal is good. Personally I have a toon that is not capped that already has a bunch of epic items made and waiting for when he hits 20. That seems silly.

I think BtC should be used for any swaps and that toons must have run the epic content for the item they wish to get the shard/seal of.

As far as number of tokens goes that would be needed, I think that high numbers are best and that really high numbers are better than low numbers of tokens, if that makes sense. I wouldn't consider 200 tokens for a sos shard or 300 for a mari chain shard excessive.

[The_Brave2]

where is the 50 token+ shard thing coming form o-o? never said anything about that...

I have it quoted 3 posts above this one

[stille_nacht]

I have it quoted 3 posts above this one

ah, there it is, missed it whiel skimming

[wootvenu]

If this happens at some point most of em will get all epic items that they need and 'the epics ' will get saturated. Devs need to comeup with something bigger than epics.

[lugoman]

I know you can exchange raid tokens for dungeon tokens. I dont think you can exchange dungeon tokens for raid tokens, if you can they just need to disable it. By requiring raid tokens for shards people couldnt run simple epic quest to get shards.