Your AA role

[Abilbo]

There are lot of AA haters out there. Many of them in the Ranger class, but I thought that I would point out a very good way to play that helps the party out without having people getting upset with you.

You are not the primary DPS. Yes Manyshot is a beautiful thing, but lets face it, the melee classes with their uber upgraded weapons, and DPS potential will out damage you most of the time. When your MS is up, you get some very nice burst damage, combined with slayer arrows, and a bosses health can drop significantly. But the way that I see my role as an AA Ranger is to add to the party's damage, while not causing the healer to have to stop healing what ever the boss is trying to pound into the ground.

Get yourself a Paralyzing Bow. If you have High Dex, and you should as a ranger, with the right feats/enhancements you won't miss much of the time. I have been in many parties where I simply shift from one target to the next, until i see the little green aura surround my target, indicating that they are paralyzed and TAB to the next one. A held/paralyzed target takes much more damage than ones running around chasing the casters.

When I am required to melee, I do much the same. Wield a paralyzer in each hand. You swing fast enough, and hit often enough that you can move from target to target, keeping a large crowd of mobs CC'd.

If your content to stand back and shoot things in the face, and have fun doing it, accept the simple fact that you will not be doing the most damage, nor would you want to be. If you pull aggro away from the Melee tank, who probably has a good deal more health than you, and the gear to mitigate some of the damage, you will leave a stain on the ground, and annoy the party.

Also, just because the final boss fight starts, and your MS is up, doesn't mean that you have to click it right away, and start the show. Plink away, let the Tank ge the aggro, and then cut loose, if you wait a few seconds before you cut in, either the tank will have the aggro, or the crazy sorc will be doing his best to pull it away, and your still safe, because the boss isn't running over to you.

I have a ELF AA Ranger, TR'd so level 5 again, whose name is "Runbackwards Andpewpew". Strangely enough nobody ever asks me if im a tempest build, but I have received alot of compliments from players about how I played my character. Maybe not so much about how I built it (AA Haters), but I have fun playing the game, and in the end, isn't that the point?

[NaturalHazard]

care to break down your advice with level breaks? paralyzers seem not to work well in certain higher level content, unless its something like a time blade.

Also not every AA is a ranger, quite a few are not, do you have some advice that would apply to them?

[ZeroTakenaka]

Agreed. My AA is lvl 20 and not planning on TRing soon. Just recently made the lit II bow for him. I still keep my paralyzer. On runs like ritual sacrifice, people are astounded at how many mobs I can keep paralyzed with my bow before they even get to them. All that's left is for them to kill them.


care to break down your advice with level breaks? paralyzers seem not to work well in certain higher level content, unless its something like a time blade.

Paralyzers work decently while in VAle but after that I use a DPS bow/melee combination.

[Jendrak]

The best thing an AA can do is NOT be a one trick pony.

Ranger AA: put the bow down once in a while and use you TWF

Bard AA: buff, sing, shoot, repeat


Basically just make sure you bring somethign else to the table besides just many shot.

[xberto]

AA might not be primary DPS but the dynamics and versatility of their DPS usually goes unacknowledged my the number crunchers.
depending on you build, I think the AA role is DPS. Be it with you paralyzers or whatever weapon you wanna use, killing is the ultimate goal. Your not going to hit like a barb but the barb isn't going to take the archers out otop the towers or clean out a roomair hallway as fast as you manyshot. I enjoy taking out enemies before the the melees even get to swing. Well played AAs rule killcount, for what it's worth

[Talon_Moonshadow]

I agree.

A paralysing bow is one of the best ways an archer can help in a party. Paralyse as many targets as possible....and do not worry about kill count.

For melee, I like a paralyser as an off-hand weapon. But a squishy Rgr might want to use one in his primary hand. (as well)

be careful about Manyshot when you have a tank holding agro.....even long after the tank has been beating on the boss, you may draw agro off of him.

Most raids lke VoD and ToD are not DPS races. It is far more important to "not" pull boss agro, then to do as much DPS as possible. I would recommend actually 'not" using Manyshot/slayer arrows in those. At least not until the boss is almost down.
Steady constant damage there is fine, and should not see the archer getting agro. (although if the main tank dies, watch out! :eek: )

For VoD, I find an archer to be really nice at bringing Sulu back to his corner when he teleports away...
That is when I hit Manyshot on him...and he wastes no time coming right back to where we want him. (hopefully you are sturdy enough to handle his agro till the main tank re-acquires it.)

I actually tend to go against common advice. (like that is news to anyone. :rolleyes: )
and do not use Manyshot every chance I get.

The way I see it, is most fights do not need max DPS. Most things die real quick. In fact, on my melee toons, I have trouble getting kills because someone else is always faster than me and kills everything before I even get a dice roll.
So IMO, Manyshot is not needed at all.
And I save it as my "oh ****!" button. to be used when something needs to die right now! Or when I need to unload on an army and take agro off the party.
I always want to make sure I have it available and not on timer, for when I really need it.
(to clarify, I usually melee if it seems safe to do so...unless I'm just being lazy, or there are to many Hezrous blocking my view. And switch to ranged/Manyshot when appropriate.)

[Abilbo]

The only ranger spell worth a dang is the FOM which other classes can also cast. Focus on your STR/DEX/CON and you will do ok. Getting a decent CON is hard with an ELF, but there is nothing that says you have to start with 20 DEX and I didn't go that route. As DEX does not mean damage, i found that starting with 16-17 pts will work just fine. All you need to cast your highest level Ranger spells is wisdom 14? I think, easily acchieved with a Wisdom item.

The biggest mobs that I had a problem paralyzing were ones that were healer classes. Mob Clerics and what not, as they have high saves. Most everything else seems to be able to be paralyzed, but when your counting on the Roll of a Die to make or break you, depends on how good Lady Luck likes you that day.

And while I agree that when Manyshot is down, you will do probably do more damage as a lower/mid range level AA if you are going to switch to TWF, I also know, that before I TR'd, I was still better off staying back from the boss, if the boss did any kind of AOE damage, and it didn't matter if it were spells or a melee swing.

As far as leveling goes, my first 6 levels I mainly just used a 2H weapon. The damage on them outweighs what i could do with a bow, and trying to find decent/good weapons for main/offhand just became a hassle. I got shock greatsword with puregood, tossed a Icyburst on it, and just ran around chopping mobs. As you start to level, and mobs start to level, this doesn't work as well, because as an AA you spend what points you can, from your enhancements, into the AA tree, not into melee chance to hit/damage. The only Uber weapon I have is a Tier2 GS Longbow, which someday, if I ever get enough mats, I will make into the LIT II bow.

Once you get to the AA status, use your Acid imbue, as it will do the most damage. Everytime you hit with it, it does its 1D6 acid, and adds refreshes the 1D6 Acid DOT that already on the mob, so even if your next shot misses, you will still see the Acid DOT tick.

There is no "One" bow to try and get for mid range AA's. The Silver Bow is nice. But at level 8, I have a +2 Shockingburst Longbow of Puregood, that i put Icyburst on it. Each time the bow hits, I do the Longbow damage, shock damage, frost damage, good damage, acid damage, and on a crit an extra burst of shock and frost. IMHO that beats the Silver Bow hands down.

I also carry many bows of "Greater ****** Bane". Having an Abberration Bane bow came in really handy with the 12 quests, where there were alot of beholders. A banishing bow is nice for anything that can be banished, as the standard DPS is higher, even if you don't get a "vorpal" shot.

The Returning Arrows are a nice feature, and not just for the returning feature. Since a +5 bow does not stack with a +5 arrow, you can use a "lesser" +1 bow of whatever, if it has good prefixes and suffix's, and use the higher arrows to make up for the +1 Bow.

I have never tried to play an AA that wasn't a ranger, so not sure what advice i would give that would be beneficial, other than... If you are having fun doing it, continue doing it, and find people you can have fun with.

[-Nismu-]

best part of AA bard.
- no one really cares what you do as long you sing and cast necessery buffs. (well unless you pull agro and keep running away from melees.) and no one expects you to be top DD

I have to say i love virtuoso AA specially. specially once you get capering song. It is just awesome to stop tougher mobs on their place or if you need mob to stop so melee can catch them. And bards have lots of tricks to keep enemy from getting too close.

Also bards get umd to use fire arrow wands to make bunch of fire arrows (unless you are too lazy and just use AA arrows)

agh now i want to start new AA bard on my main server >,< hard to make decent one on 28 point build

[CanuckWisdom]

I find using a bow seems at time very effective and other times just gimp.

I see lots of writing on here about making ranged attacks better, and I understand but at the same time its important to remember the potential advantages.

Compared to some styles, ranged fighting might be more about active play. Improved precise shot is the biggest potential here, where if you can manage to line up two or more enemies per hit you can do damage almost like a AOE nuke. But it takes a lot of activity to pull that off continuously.

Like the OP said, you can easily debuff multiple targets and keep them that way. I carry improved destruction and cursespewing as well as paralyzing. But the other advantage here, in terms of DPS, is that you dont need to either chase after monsters or run to the next one. Bows may attack slower, but they are firing off at enemies more consistently.

I play a kensai AA, and I decided I would take rogue levels as well, so right now I'm 12 fighter, 3 rogue and 1 wizard. I do about the same damage as THF, maybe a bit less per hit (when no sneak) and attack a little slower (besides multishot). What really makes my damage effective is action boosts. Power surge, in combination with (separate timer) haste boost 4 or rogue damage boost 2 (required for assassin 1) really helps out and all three have individual use counters (each can be used 8 times now).

Another thing I like about being an elf, as opposed to ranger AA, is because of my wiz lvl I can use all wizard scrolls and wands once I hit the ML (without UMD checks) including wands of flame arrow. 50 charges of 50 flaming arrows per wand. Blur, falselife and all that other nonsense.

I have extend from wizard class feat and therefore 2 min duration lvl 1 spells. Jump, expeditious retreat, grease can be useful if your pulling (a fireball wand on the grease is fun too), feather fall potentially saves an item slot, detect secret doors etc.

Im thinking about making a GS earthgrab or freezing encasement bow to do sort of what the OP suggested with crowd control over dps.

[Helexax]

The only ranger spell worth a dang is the FOM which other classes can also cast.

I disagree, while certainly not on the level of a divine a ranger can and should toss out a few heals when things get rough. A ranger can also pass out resist spells, barkskin a tank, or my favorite ~ rams might, which adds 3 damage to all of your attacks, not huge, but 3 damage every-single-attack adds up.

[jackel_inognito]

But at level 8, I have a +2 Shockingburst Longbow of Puregood, that i put Icyburst on it. Each time the bow hits, I do the Longbow damage, shock damage, frost damage, good damage, acid damage, and on a crit an extra burst of shock and frost. IMHO that beats the Silver Bow hands down.

.


what do you mean you put icyburst on it? how did u get both icyburst and shockingburst on it? is that some kind of crafting thing? cause im very new to crafting so im not sure

[Failedlegend]

Personally I think the power of an AA is underrated all anyone every sees is the non-manyshot slowness but the Manyshot time is a huge burst far beyond a melee and it really balances out. Clarification: Not saying that an AA matches Melee DPS (except in cases where IPS gets a lucky line up to play with) I'm just saying the difference is smaller than people claim

I really don't get everyone's insistence to "Put down the bow' why? all your feats have gone into boosting your ranged combat so your melee combat is gonna suck even compared to non-Manyshot Bow Damage...unless of course you took melee feats in which case your gimping your ranged stuff which lessens the greatness of Manyshot.

Regardless I came up with a solution to make that non-manyshot time alot more productive (and its even better at doing the status effect stuff the OP was talking about)

Note: Anyone thinking of starting a ranged toon in the near future should wait for U11 alot of changes are coming including the ranged pass, the much awaited repeater fix, Mech 3, DWS2 and even a new class so it's best to wait until that bomb is dropped because it will probably change the way we build ranged toons...hopefully for the better.

Anyways here's my ranged build it's an Elven Kensai2/Mech1/AA

Mech 1 for Int bonus to Repeater damage (and some decent SA) Kensai 2 for favored weapon repeater (since you'll be using your repeater most of the time) and power surge for bows while manyshotting (of course other stuff like titan's grip will here) than 1 wizard+elf for AA

This build will primarily use repeaters but switch to bow when manyshot is available while simultaneously activating power surge & your strongest Imbue from AA

The superior rate of fire of RXBows helps to offset the decreased speed of the bow while off manyshot and the triple shot (soon to be a triple hit burst) really helps to get those status effects out. My GS picks would be a Lit2 Bow and a Rad2 RXBow.

Note: Build requires +2 Int tome before lvl 8 for skills to work and a +1 Dex tome lvl 14...both of which are easy to obtain by those levels.


Elven 12Fighter/7Rogue/1Wizard (Kensai2/AA/Mech1)


Level Order:

Rogue 1-7, Wizard 8, Fighter 9-20


Stats (assuming 32pt w/ Basic, Easy to obtain boosts):

Str 14+6(Item) +1(Tome) +3(Fighter) +8(Power Surge) = 32
Dex 18+6(Item) +2(Tome) +2(Elf) +2(Rogue) +2 = 30
Con 12+6(Item) +2(Tome) = 20
Int 16+6(Item) +1(Tome) +5(Lvls) = 28

Feats

With the fighter feats the regular feats and the wiz feat you end up with 15 feats.

1 PBS
3 WF: Ranged
6 Precise Shot
8 Mental Toughness
9 Rapid Shot, Manyshot
10 Rapid Reload
12 WS:Ranged, Bow Strength
14 IPS
15 IC:Ranged
16 GWF: Ranged
18 Quick Draw, Toughness
20 GWS: Ranged

Note: Quickdraw. Rapid Reload & Toughness can be swapped around based on you personal preference.

Skills:
Fighter/Wizard Levels: UMD,Disable Device, Search
Rogue Lvls: UMD, Disable Device, Search, OL, Spot,& w/e

Note: Any leftover points from tomes/leveling put in Spot

This is how I have my hotbar set since quivers are bugged and you cant use the hotbar to swap em


Xbow - Main Bolt Stack - Secondary Bolt Stack - A few other less used xbows/bolts

Bow- Main Arrow Stack- Power Surge - Manyshot - Secondary - Imbue Arrow

Skill Prog/Enhancements



Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Diplomacy (+4)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Haggle (+4)
Skill: Hide (+4)
Skill: Jump (+3)
Skill: Move Silently (+4)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)


Level 2 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 3 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 4 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 5 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 6 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 7 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 8 (Wizard)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 9 (Fighter)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 10 (Fighter)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 11 (Fighter)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 12 (Fighter)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 13 (Fighter)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 14 (Fighter)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 15 (Fighter)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 16 (Fighter)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 17 (Fighter)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 18 (Fighter)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 19 (Fighter)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 20 (Fighter)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

Enhancement: Fighter Extra Action Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost III
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost IV
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Acid Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Explosive Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Force Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Force Burst Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Slaying Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Terror Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity II
Enhancement: Rogue Acid Trap Lore I
Enhancement: Kensei Repeating Light Crossbow Mastery I
Enhancement: Kensei Repeating Light Crossbow Mastery II
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei I
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei II
Enhancement: Fighter Longbow Specialization I
Enhancement: Fighter Repeating Light Crossbow Specialization I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +2 Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +3 Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +4 Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +5 Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer I
Enhancement: Rogue Mechanic I
Enhancement: Improved Disable Device I
Enhancement: Improved Disable Device II
Enhancement: Improved Open Lock I
Enhancement: Improved Open Lock II
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength III
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I

[Abilbo]

what do you mean you put icyburst on it? how did u get both icyburst and shockingburst on it? is that some kind of crafting thing? cause im very new to crafting so im not sure

Icybursting a weapon is something you can do with the recipes from the winter games, but if your going to do it, I think you better do it quick as the games expire in a day or so. It adds 1D6 Frost damage to every hit of your weapon and then on a Critical it does damage based on the Crit Multiplier of your weapon, and for long bows that is X3.

So if my morphine riddled brain is adding this correctly, for a Icyburst/Shockingburst Longbow of Pure Good, using Acid imbued arrows, which is what you will normally use until you can use Slayers, here is what your damage should be.

1D8 +# ( The number will be based on your bow or arrows higher number, IE a +1 bow or +4 bow)
1D6 Shock
1D6 Frost
1D6 Good
1D6 Acid Imbue
1D6 Acid DOT
2D10 Icyburst
2D10 Shocking Burst.

The first line of 1D8 +3 is a bit vague, but i don't know how to explain in all the modifiers of damage that add into what your base weapons damage is going to be. That 1D8 is affected by things like your STR modifier, as well as your Rams Might that does stack with your STR pots or gear you might be wearing.

If you are using your slayer arrows, unless you roll a 20 you will see no bonus to your damage, and if you do, you see 500 pop up, and you know what you rolled.

[xberto]

Note: Anyone thinking of starting a ranged toon in the near future should wait for U11 alot of changes are coming including the ranged pass,

Seems a fun build there Fl. So what is the ranged pass?




The way I see it, is most fights do not need max DPS. Most things die real quick. In fact, on my melee toons, I have trouble getting kills because someone else is always faster than me and kills everything before I even get a dice roll.
So IMO, Manyshot is not needed at all.
And I save it as my "oh ****!" button. to be used when something needs to die right now! Or when I need to unload on an army and take agro off the party.
I always want to make sure I have it available and not on timer, for when I really need it.

Yea well, too each his own... but if we are discussing the AA role and possibly what the party would expect of us, hoarding manyshots doesnt seem like fulfilling our role. There is no sense in letting anything live a second longer than it needs too. It's a little like a caster finishing Shroud part 4 with mana when its going to take a second round...
Now yea there may be some strategic reasons you might want to save manyshot for a time, or perhaps its just too leisure of a quest, but in the end its about killing everything fast so people aren't dying or using unnecessary resources.

[Failedlegend]

Seems a fun build there Fl. So what is the ranged pass?


Not much has been said about it beyond the fix for repeaters but we do know their planning on rebalancing ranged combat similar to how they rebalanced spellcasting except instead of balancing the spells to have a bigger variety off useful spells their balancing ranged combat so its mote competitive with melee combat (no hint at all on plans of how this is gonna happen) and since we know little to nothing about how or what these changes are going to be I recommnend against starting a new ranged build unter after U11 comes to be as it might change ALOT. Especially with Mech3 and DWS2 (plus a rework of DWS1) Coming. Not to mention a new class

[xberto]

cool. yea i knew about some of the ranged fixes, especially the repeaters.. just the term "ranged pass" was throwing me off. I wanst sure if it was a feat or something. I gambling with TRing my rougue for ranger past lives... I hope the mech 3 is good :)

[barecm]

Suggestion for dealing with melee folks who get upset about you drawing agro when you use many shot. First I tell them to have intimidate so they dont have to chase kited monsters. Usually that shuts them up. As a second, more party friendly answer, invest in both bluff and diplomacy. Both work pretty well now. Also, get a Wretched Twilight from the Abott. -15% ranged hate.

[Failedlegend]

Also, get a Wretched Twilight from the Abott. -15% ranged hate.

Yeah I love that one especially since most cloaks blow anyway

[Maxelcat]

multishot with in 30ft, grab agro, swap to TWF and stand on the DPS toon swinging.

or

have your DPS stand in front of you and start swinging, multishot and drag them into the blender.

and any ranged DPS done before melee is good DPS.

[Fallout]

Best thing I ever did on my AA was tr him into a wiz.

[FuzzyDuck81]

Generally I view my archers as support more than dps - ok, the "burn it down" manyshot is seriously nice, and if you get lucky with the slayer arrows you can take stuff down in a hurry, but generally the dps is below most melee - thats fine, you can still make a valuable contribution.. people just need to adjust expectations somewhat.

Outside of manyshot, dps role for archers is mostly situational, where there's enemies you really dont want to be dealing with in melee... sorjek or pale fire while their blue shields are active spring to mind, ditto those marilith harryhausen rejects - one of the only real, consistent dps advantages archers have is the ability to bypass the majority of DR types without worrying about hunting down special combinations, since both weapon & ammo count.

A few of my tactics... a lot of it pretty obvious but there are many people who dont seem to think of them:
Turret, not kiter - draw enemies to you then fire point-blank..other melees in the party will grab aggro quickly enough away from you, or pump diplo/bluff too to dump it away faster. If you do need to kite a bit.. kite them TOWARDS the rest of the melees.. if you pull stuff far away, annoying the melees who cant reach them, you deserve to have to deal with it yourself.

Debuffing - (imp)cursespewing, (imp)shattermantle, wounding of puncturing, weakening of enfeebling, paralysing... they can all make life a lot easier for other party members... in high level stuff especially, eg. amrath, switching out to an improved shatermantle bow then using tab to switch between enemies to "tag" multiple ones quickly will be a huge help to casters in your party, especially if they dont yet have all the top spell penetration stuff.

Tactical targeting - with precise shot (turn off IPS) whatever you have in your targeting window is what'll get hurt, regardless of other enemies in the way.. useful in stuff like sleeping dust & shrieking mines where you want to avoid hurting things that are hostile to you, also a good way to pull caster aggro (many AAs will have evasion to help resist spells) without also pulling aggro from other enemies too.

Tactical placement - hold back a little, let others get aggro, then with IPS active target the enemy at the far side.. then start shooting - each individual shot still likely wont have high damage, but when you're hitting 5 enemies with the same arrow, then naturally your total dps is 5x higher than it was, however, since you let others get aggro 1st & the damage is spread out rather than on a single target you can generally use that without pulling aggro off others & accidentally kiting (as you'll likely be moving around a lot to ensure best placement using this technique). Plus.. as much as your dps generally isnt good, with manyshot & seeing multiple slaying arrows hitting all those things at once you'll get a nice warm glow... at least until you realise that warmth is the blood seeping out of you from 5 orthons turning on you at once ;)

[NaturalHazard]

The only ranger spell worth a dang is the FOM which other classes can also cast. .

Ahem rams might? also i cant hit myself for 160hp+ with a cure serious.

[Dawnsfire]

cool. yea i knew about some of the ranged fixes, especially the repeaters.. just the term "ranged pass" was throwing me off. I wanst sure if it was a feat or something. I gambling with TRing my rougue for ranger past lives... I hope the mech 3 is good :)

There was no 'ranged pass'. They are trying to improve x-bows for the Artificer though and that may speed rapid shot up a bit in the end.


Once I figure out what's going on, you shouldn't be, if you have rapid shot and rapid reload.

Unrelated to this quote - a couple of people have said in this thread that U11 was the ranged pass - it's not. We've done a couple of tweaks to ranged combat in U11, but the major systems attention is slated for a future release.

[furbyoats]

here

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=289591

amazing build, amazing damage all around.

[Failedlegend]

Switching to melee on a ranged toon has always been pointless and just lead to wasted feats but now that having PBS causes your weapons damage to double when at close range theres even LESS reason to bother with melee now.

[Abilbo]

Switching to melee on a ranged toon has always been pointless and just lead to wasted feats but now that having PBS causes your weapons damage to double when at close range theres even LESS reason to bother with melee now.

Since when does PBS double your damage? PBS adds +1 to hit and +1 to damage when the target is within 30 Feet.

[Dawnsfire]

Since when does PBS double your damage? PBS adds +1 to hit and +1 to damage when the target is within 30 Feet.

It's coming in U11:


Does your mechanic really not have Rapid Reload?

Yes, if you have *no feats*, it is indeed true that crossbows are really bad.

Do you have Point Blank Shot? We did a significant buff to the damage that does as well. Ranged weapons within point blank shot range double the number of dice in their base damage within point blank shot range now, so a 1d10 19-20/x2 weapon becomes 2d10 19-20/x2. The description hasn't been updated yet in the build you guys have.

[Abilbo]

Ahem rams might? also i cant hit myself for 160hp+ with a cure serious.

I want to know what rangers your hangin out with that are healing for 160 HP's with their cure serious.

Since many people have commented on my original post, ill refine my statement on ranger spells.

Ram's Might is handy, but its a self buff and doesn't help the party.
Resists/protects are nice, but with the addition of ship buffs, and cleric/wizard mass protects, you won't use them much, yes, you will still use them some.
Barkskin at lower levels is nice to raise the AC of builds trying to get hit, but at later levels of the game, since everything hits you, its so-so.
The baby heals are nice, and for the most part, thats what they are. It saves you the time and invnetory space of having to carry heal kits, but the cast time, and recast timer on them is slow, you CAN NOT combat heal as a ranger and be effective.
NONE of the stat spells are worth taking because they don't stack with bonus from your gear.
NONE of the holds/snares are good, because they are all resisted at higher level, and then ones that don't get resisted don't do enough damage to make it worth casting.
FOM is nice, because it allows you to avoid many effects that would otherwise slow you down, even at the highest levels of the game.

IMHO the Rangers spells, give them the option to solo slayer areas more effectivly than a fighter who forgets to bring along a cleric hireling.

This is not to say that I have never used my heals to revive/save a party member who was just about dead, I have.
This is not to say that I wasn't able to cast resists/protects on someone stupid enough to get themselves killed, and lost their ship buffs, I have.

But being added to a party, and having people find out that your an AA, and having them say, "oh look the Barkskin/FOM clickie is here" really shows the true opinion of what people think about ranger spells.

[krackythehoodedone]

I think the most balanced AA build about today is the HelvesAngel.

Ok it requires a lot of work to finish and i dont think anyone has yet

But serious burst Archery coupled with awesome melee DPS (Scim or Kop).

To the OP. Parylzers are Killer weapons from 11th level (when you get IPS)

Until the monsters get growed up saves.

At endgame & Epic they are next to useless.

Maybe an Imp Pary Bow will surface? I see it on some of the Re-worked Epics

However the underlying tactic is not, just be a bit more inventive with the Weapon.

Ie A WOP bow for those not immune (killer in sub). Or W/E for Beholder Removal

Imp Destruction/Cursespewing/Shattermantle. All add to this ''support'' role.

Or if your really adventurous make an Ooze Bow. This gives the Oozes a chance to proc everytime the arrow damages a target.

Other Useful GS Bows include Earthgrab and Enervate

Failing that the more traditional massive damage approach with a Lightning 11 Bow and Slayer Arrow.

Will keep you up with Melees as long as you have a few targets to hit

And you have mastered IPS/Tabbing through Targets and managing aggro so as not to upset the rest of the party.

The main place where you fall behind is when their is just a single taget.

And manyshot is gone.

[NaturalHazard]

I want to know what rangers your hangin out with that are healing for 160 HP's with their cure serious.

Since many people have commented on my original post, ill refine my statement on ranger spells.

Ram's Might is handy, but its a self buff and doesn't help the party.
Resists/protects are nice, but with the addition of ship buffs, and cleric/wizard mass protects, you won't use them much, yes, you will still use them some.
Barkskin at lower levels is nice to raise the AC of builds trying to get hit, but at later levels of the game, since everything hits you, its so-so.
The baby heals are nice, and for the most part, thats what they are. It saves you the time and invnetory space of having to carry heal kits, but the cast time, and recast timer on them is slow, you CAN NOT combat heal as a ranger and be effective.
.

my ranger heals for 160 hp + with his cure serious, I know rangers that can hit 200+ and thats with no heal amp gear on. In hard tod today i healed a 700 hp fighter for almost half his red bar. Its called maximize, and superior ardour clickies/pots, and devotion item sloted. Not effective?

I kept myself self healed solo on suulo in hard tod, when the horoth tank went down. I used my own heals to solo elite amarath quests.

Rangers have soloed VOD and even shroud, with their self heals, yes mainly the spells not scrolls, do some research. Rams might is an awesome spell, even if you can only cast it on yourself. Barkskin is useful right up to elite tod, ive used it on myself and had others inclueding those tanking suulo or horoth ask for it and put it to good use.

Ive saved a shroud run twice now where ive been last man standing in part 4 and 5, and he had over 5% of his health left, healing off my blue bar.

Ive had the healer dc in epic DA when he came back only the wizard and I where still alive.


You seriously need to get out of the box more.

[Abilbo]

I posted an idea in another thread, that I think would really benefit the AA build, and that is to allow an AA to chose the option at level 2 to take either Bow STR or a similar feat that made DEX the primary stat modifier for bows. Another way of granting that would be to make the AA PE grant this ability, they could even work it into the builds so that it would be under AAII as many PE's have multiple levels.

I would rather cap my dex, and raise my con as high as I could, to get a better to hit/damage with my bow, if DEX was the hit/damage modifer, get a better AC, get a better Reflex, and suffer a bit more with melee weapons. Currently, being forced to split my stats between STR and DEX, having CON suffer as a 3rd Stat and ignoring wisdom makes for a less than ideal AA.

If U11 is going to make PBS do double damage within 30 feet, then someone explain how even firing at the current speed how my Tier2/3 GS Bow is going to do less damage than my "whatever weapon of pure good" when my character has no feats/enhancements that add to the hit or damage of melee weapons? TWF and the GTWF feats simply grant you the ability to hit with your offhand weapon more accurately.

[NaturalHazard]

? TWF and the GTWF feats simply grant you the ability to hit with your offhand weapon more accurately.

you get the same penalties for off hand as you do for main hand if you have the twf feat. -4 for both hands if the off hand weapon is a medium sized weapon. -2 for both hands if the off hand weapon is light.

also you get the chance to proc off hand attacks.

I copied this from the ddo wiki.

Two Weapon Fighting
◦Usage: Passive
◦Prerequisite: Dexterity 15
Description
Two Weapon Fighting reduces the to-hit penalty when using two weapons at the same time. The penalty for your primary hand lessens by 2 and the one for your off-hand lessens by 6, so it becomes -4 (main hand) / -4 (off-hand) (instead of -6/-10 without this feat). If the off-hand weapon is light, the penalties both decrease by another 2 points, down to -2/-2 (instead of -4/-8 without this feat).

After Update 5, an off-hand attack would have a chance to proc on any main hand attack now, instead of being predetermined on certain attacks. The default chance to proc an off-hand attack is 20%.

Two Weapon Fighting increases the chance to proc an off-hand attack by 20%, bringing the total chance to 40%. Having more TWF feats increases the percentage chance of proccing an off-hand attack by 20% per level, to a max of 80% with Greater Two Weapon Fighting.

This feat also works for unarmed Monks, and has the same effect.

[grodon9999]

I want to know what rangers your hangin out with that are healing for 160 HP's with their cure serious.
.

That's low actually my human can hit for 250ish, more if I get more healing amp

20% human healing amp +30 % Claw set healing amp + 30% ranger devotion + Ador IV pots + Maximize feat = about a 200-250 CSW on a ranger.

[Failedlegend]

I think the most balanced AA build about today is the HelvesAngel.

Ok it requires a lot of work to finish and i dont think anyone has yet

But serious burst Archery coupled with awesome melee DPS (Scim or Kop).

To the OP. Parylzers are Killer weapons from 11th level (when you get IPS)


It stopped being a ranged build right there...its a melee build that takes advantage of the fact that Turbine implemented rangers incorrectly and abuses manyshot.


Since when does PBS double your damage? PBS adds +1 to hit and +1 to damage when the target is within 30 Feet.

As of U11 being in pointblank range will cause your damage dice to double and there's still NO penalty to shooting someone at close range so still NO reason to switch


We did a significant buff to the damage PBS does. Ranged weapons within PBS range double the number of dice in their base damage within PBS range now, so a 1d10 19-20/x2 weapon becomes 2d10 19-20/x2. The description hasn't been updated yet in the build you guys have.

[Glenalth]

I want to know what rangers your hangin out with that are healing for 160 HP's with their cure serious.

A ranger can seriously cure wounds... (http://my.ddo.com/glenalth/wp-content/blogs.dir/11446/files/screenshots/bigheal.jpg)

[grandeibra]

It stopped being a ranged build right there...its a melee build that takes advantage of the fact that Turbine implemented rangers incorrectly and abuses manyshot

so still NO reason to switchAbout ranged build or not, that is about semantics. Imo that is a ranged build since they spent some feats on ranged but can see why you view it more as a melee one

About Turbine implemented it incorrectly. No. Their choice. Just different. Same as sp bar and many many other things that are different than from PnP. You may believe (and I may agree) that implementing it more similar to PnP may have been better ^^

There is always a reason to switch when up close (even after the double base dmge) since pretty much even a decked out ranged-only build will do more damage with melee weapons than with ranged when not
* manyshot
* or >1mob in one line
* or mobs not up close yet

[Glenalth]

I had missed that Point Blank Shot change.

Helps the expanded crit range bows push even further ahead and makes Unwavering Ardency somewhat competitive at close ranges.

[Failedlegend]

There is always a reason to switch when up close (even after the double base dmge) since pretty much even a decked out ranged-only build will do more damage with melee weapons than with ranged when not


IF you waste precious feats on melee for twft,itwf ,gtwf,etc. and if your gonna do that your likely sacrificing something that could help ranged and in that case whyu are you even bother go make a melee since your obviously not part of the ranged club anyway.

For example ANY feat I remove from this build would reduce my ranged effectiveness...well except for toughness but I'm not dropping that

Elven Kensai2/Mech1/AA

Mech 1 for Int bonus to Repeater damage (and some decent SA) Kensai 2 for favored weapon repeater (since you'll be using your repeater most of the time) and power surge for bows while manyshotting (of course other stuff like titan's grip, rage,etc. will help here) than 1 wizard+elf for AA

This build will primarily use repeaters but switch to bow when manyshot is available while simultaneously activating power surge & your strongest Imbue from AA this removes the weakness of the slow firing bow but keeps the awesomeness that is Manyshot.

The superior rate of fire of RXBows helps to offset the decreased speed of the bow while off manyshot and the triple shot (soon to be a triple hit burst) really helps to get those status effects out. My GS picks would be a Lit2 Bow and a Rad2 RXBow.

Note: Build requires +2 Int tome before lvl 8 for skills to work and a +1 Dex tome lvl 14...both of which are easy to obtain by those levels and I wouldn't recommended this as your first character anyways.


Elven 12Fighter/7Rogue/1Wizard (Kensai2/AA/Mech1)


Level Order:

Rogue 1-7, Wizard 8, Fighter 9-20


Stats (assuming 32pt w/ Basic, Easy to obtain boosts):

Str 14+6(Item) +1(Tome) +3(Fighter) +8(Power Surge) = 32
Dex 18+6(Item) +2(Tome) +2(Elf) +2(Rogue) +2 = 30
Con 12+6(Item) +2(Tome) = 20
Int 16+6(Item) +1(Tome) +5(Lvls) = 28

Feats

With the fighter feats the regular feats and the wiz feat you end up with 15 feats.

1 PBS
3 WF: Ranged
6 Precise Shot
8 Mental Toughness
9 Rapid Shot, Manyshot
10 Rapid Reload
12 WS:Ranged, Bow Strength
14 IPS
15 IC:Ranged
16 GWF: Ranged
18 Quick Draw, Toughness
20 GWS: Ranged

Note: Quickdraw. Rapid Reload & Toughness can be swapped around based on you personal preference.

Skills:
Fighter/Wizard Levels: UMD,Disable Device, Search
Rogue Lvls: UMD, Disable Device, Search, OL, Spot,& w/e

Note: Any leftover points from tomes/leveling put in Spot

This is how I have my hotbar set since quivers are bugged and you cant use the hotbar to swap em


Xbow - Main Bolt Stack - Secondary Bolt Stack - A few other less used xbows/bolts

Bow- Main Arrow Stack- Power Surge - Manyshot - Secondary - Imbue Arrow

Skill Prog/Enhancements



Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Diplomacy (+4)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Haggle (+4)
Skill: Hide (+4)
Skill: Jump (+3)
Skill: Move Silently (+4)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)


Level 2 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 3 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 4 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 5 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 6 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 7 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 8 (Wizard)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 9 (Fighter)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 10 (Fighter)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 11 (Fighter)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 12 (Fighter)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 13 (Fighter)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 14 (Fighter)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 15 (Fighter)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 16 (Fighter)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 17 (Fighter)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 18 (Fighter)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 19 (Fighter)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 20 (Fighter)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

Enhancement: Fighter Extra Action Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost III
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost IV
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Acid Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Explosive Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Force Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Force Burst Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Slaying Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Terror Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity II
Enhancement: Rogue Acid Trap Lore I
Enhancement: Kensei Repeating Light Crossbow Mastery I
Enhancement: Kensei Repeating Light Crossbow Mastery II
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei I
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei II
Enhancement: Fighter Longbow Specialization I
Enhancement: Fighter Repeating Light Crossbow Specialization I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +2 Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +3 Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +4 Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +5 Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer I
Enhancement: Rogue Mechanic I
Enhancement: Improved Disable Device I
Enhancement: Improved Disable Device II
Enhancement: Improved Open Lock I
Enhancement: Improved Open Lock II
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength III
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I

[k1ngp1n]

I want to know what rangers your hangin out with that are healing for 160 HP's with their cure serious.


My elf tempest heals herself for 170 on the low side, 200s on the high side, and having a Torc = unlimited SP.

[krackythehoodedone]

OOOOOOOOOOOO.

I didnt see that little double PBS thingy.

Thats within 30ft yes?

So if you lets say happenned to have an Epic Thornlord

And Critted on a silly number

Oh Mr Peevly i'm quite pleased about that

And Rapid shot increasing speed

Ok Ok that is all good

[Glenalth]

OOOOOOOOOOOO.

I didnt see that little double PBS thingy.

Playing with it right now. Some actually decent numbers coming off Unwavering Ardency. It might have a space in my bag again someday.

[NaturalHazard]

I want to know what rangers your hangin out with that are healing for 160 HP's with their cure serious.

Since many people have commented on my original post, ill refine my statement on ranger spells.

Resists/protects are nice, but with the addition of ship buffs, and cleric/wizard mass protects, you won't use them much, yes, you will still use them some.
Barkskin at lower levels is nice to raise the AC of builds trying to get hit, but at later levels of the game, since everything hits you, its so-so.
The baby heals are nice, and for the most part, thats what they are. It saves you the time and invnetory space of having to carry heal kits, but the cast time, and recast timer on them is slow, you CAN NOT combat heal as a ranger and be effective.
NONE of the stat spells are worth taking because they don't stack with bonus from your gear.
IMHO the Rangers spells, give them the option to solo slayer areas more effectivly than a fighter who forgets to bring along a cleric hireling.

This is not to say that I have never used my heals to revive/save a party member who was just about dead, I have.
This is not to say that I wasn't able to cast resists/protects on someone stupid enough to get themselves killed, and lost their ship buffs, I have.

But being added to a party, and having people find out that your an AA, and having them say, "oh look the Barkskin/FOM clickie is here" really shows the true opinion of what people think about ranger spells.

hmm lots of people have replied and shown up your theory that rangers can't combate heal, and in fact my rangers 160+ hp are at the low end of the ranger self healing scale.

Well people who think that rangers are just fom, barkskin clickies shows their ignorance and your own because you agree with them.

And you want to give advice to people on how to play a ranger and you didnt even know that solid self healing was possible?

As i repeated before rangers have soloed vod, shroud, with their own self healing.

[NaturalHazard]

Playing with it right now. Some actually decent numbers coming off Unwavering Ardency. It might have a space in my bag again someday.

do you think its worth it, to take on a tempest, for the extra damage when you use manyshot? Be hard to fit it in, but.

[Glenalth]

do you think its worth it, to take on a tempest, for the extra damage when you use manyshot? Be hard to fit it in, but.

Even on a junk bow it's going to be in the neighborhood of 400 damage a manyshot. Probably a better return on investment than improved critical if you plan on getting up close but I haven't touched the math on that one yet.

[NaturalHazard]

Even on a junk bow it's going to be in the neighborhood of 400 damage a manyshot. Probably a better return on investment than improved critical if you plan on getting up close but I haven't touched the math on that one yet.

what gets multiplied by 2, everything?

[Glenalth]

what gets multiplied by 2, everything?

Just the actual die on the bow...

1d8 -> 2d8
2d8 -> 4d8
2d12 -> 4d12

[FuzzyDuck81]

Just the actual die on the bow...

1d8 -> 2d8
2d8 -> 4d8
2d12 -> 4d12

I'm currently making a zen archer... half elf 12monk/6ranger/2fighter using earth stance 3 for the boost to crit multiplier.. with the bow of sinew that should be a x4 or x5 crit (depending on whether 17-18 or 19-20 roll for crit threat) with double base damage in PBS range & DR bypassing, then manyshot & with a bit of luck some slayer arrow procs too... ohh me like.. me like a LOT :D

Just have to work on getting that epic thornlord too once i re-cap her i guess.

[krackythehoodedone]

So would that include the bonus on the Bow

Ie would Epic Thornlord be 2D8 X 2 or 2D8+12 X2 ?

[Glenalth]

So would that include the bonus on the Bow

Ie would Epic Thornlord be 2D8 X 2 or 2D8+12 X2 ?

It just bumps it up to 4d8, everything else is the same as far as I can tell.

[Teharahma]

I want to know what rangers your hangin out with that are healing for 160 HP's with their cure serious.

Since many people have commented on my original post, ill refine my statement on ranger spells.

Ram's Might is handy, but its a self buff and doesn't help the party.
Resists/protects are nice, but with the addition of ship buffs, and cleric/wizard mass protects, you won't use them much, yes, you will still use them some.
Barkskin at lower levels is nice to raise the AC of builds trying to get hit, but at later levels of the game, since everything hits you, its so-so.
The baby heals are nice, and for the most part, thats what they are. It saves you the time and invnetory space of having to carry heal kits, but the cast time, and recast timer on them is slow, you CAN NOT combat heal as a ranger and be effective.
NONE of the stat spells are worth taking because they don't stack with bonus from your gear.
NONE of the holds/snares are good, because they are all resisted at higher level, and then ones that don't get resisted don't do enough damage to make it worth casting.
FOM is nice, because it allows you to avoid many effects that would otherwise slow you down, even at the highest levels of the game.

IMHO the Rangers spells, give them the option to solo slayer areas more effectivly than a fighter who forgets to bring along a cleric hireling.

This is not to say that I have never used my heals to revive/save a party member who was just about dead, I have.
This is not to say that I wasn't able to cast resists/protects on someone stupid enough to get themselves killed, and lost their ship buffs, I have.

But being added to a party, and having people find out that your an AA, and having them say, "oh look the Barkskin/FOM clickie is here" really shows the true opinion of what people think about ranger spells.

You deserve so much neg rep for this.

You have no idea what a ranger can or can not do.
Play the class, then you might get a chance of the big boys lending you their toys..

Sheesh.

[parvo]

There are lot of AA haters out there. Many of them in the Ranger class, but I thought that I would point out a very good way to play that helps the party out without having people getting upset with you.

You are not the primary DPS. Yes Manyshot is a beautiful thing, but lets face it, the melee classes with their uber upgraded weapons, and DPS potential will out damage you most of the time. When your MS is up, you get some very nice burst damage, combined with slayer arrows, and a bosses health can drop significantly. But the way that I see my role as an AA Ranger is to add to the party's damage, while not causing the healer to have to stop healing what ever the boss is trying to pound into the ground.

Get yourself a Paralyzing Bow. If you have High Dex, and you should as a ranger, with the right feats/enhancements you won't miss much of the time. I have been in many parties where I simply shift from one target to the next, until i see the little green aura surround my target, indicating that they are paralyzed and TAB to the next one. A held/paralyzed target takes much more damage than ones running around chasing the casters.

When I am required to melee, I do much the same. Wield a paralyzer in each hand. You swing fast enough, and hit often enough that you can move from target to target, keeping a large crowd of mobs CC'd.

If your content to stand back and shoot things in the face, and have fun doing it, accept the simple fact that you will not be doing the most damage, nor would you want to be. If you pull aggro away from the Melee tank, who probably has a good deal more health than you, and the gear to mitigate some of the damage, you will leave a stain on the ground, and annoy the party.

Also, just because the final boss fight starts, and your MS is up, doesn't mean that you have to click it right away, and start the show. Plink away, let the Tank ge the aggro, and then cut loose, if you wait a few seconds before you cut in, either the tank will have the aggro, or the crazy sorc will be doing his best to pull it away, and your still safe, because the boss isn't running over to you.

I have a ELF AA Ranger, TR'd so level 5 again, whose name is "Runbackwards Andpewpew". Strangely enough nobody ever asks me if im a tempest build, but I have received alot of compliments from players about how I played my character. Maybe not so much about how I built it (AA Haters), but I have fun playing the game, and in the end, isn't that the point?


First of all, god bless you.

Second, what about other useful de-buff bows? Are there any worth having? I don't play in your world, but I've had a crippling repeater of slowburst that seemed effective. The crippling effect work on a large number of creatures, even some that I woudn't expect.

[Therigar]

Well, this thread is interesting. Special recognition to those who pulled info on upcoming changes.

I've just reincarnated from Monk to Fighter with the intent of playing an arcane archer. I am currently L3 and have not put the bow down in any quest. My goal is to never use melee weapons.

I consider it a grand experiment because I have often argued in favor of being ready to switch to melee. It will be informative to see if I can successfully avoid that while still being of value to the party.

IMO the thread identifies some of the critical aspects for sticking with the ranged weapon. Most important among these are feat selection and gear selection. The right feats enable the character to focus in on ranged combat. The right gear lets the character pick the best tool for the moment.

All in all a very positive thread.

[Failedlegend]

I am currently L3 and have not put the bow down in any quest. My goal is to never use melee weapons.

I consider it a grand experiment because I have often argued in favor of being ready to switch to melee. It will be informative to see if I can successfully avoid that while still being of value to the party.

You'll be pleasently suprised I assure you :)

Do carry a qstaff for box smashing though. Waste of ammo that is.

[krackythehoodedone]

Keep testing Glenalth.

Has someone over their got an Epic Thornlord?

I may as well whizz Zexxi over if not.

Technically base damage for ET is 2D8 +4 (+8)

I can see UA becoming popular. it always should have been better anyhow

[Talon_Moonshadow]

First of all, god bless you.

Second, what about other useful de-buff bows? Are there any worth having? I don't play in your world, but I've had a crippling repeater of slowburst that seemed effective. The crippling effect work on a large number of creatures, even some that I woudn't expect.

We adventure in two different worlds. ;)

In the zerge world, things die to fast IMO, for most debuffs to be really useful (others may disagree)

In the slower "mortal" world, many debuffs may be very useful from ranged, as you could stand back and debuff the whole battlefield.

Problem is, shooting at multiple targets causes multiple agro....may not be what you want.

Cursespewing might be good. The crippling of slowburst sounds good to me.
Shattermantle.

I could see you guys getting use out of just about anything. Partially because you may not have access to something better, but mostly because things die slower and debuffs would be more important I think.

[Therigar]

You'll be pleasently suprised I assure you :)

Do carry a qstaff for box smashing though. Waste of ammo that is.

I'm on my 3d life, have 3 other TRs and a L16 currently active to gather loot. I have a Quivering Quiver waiting for what is essentially unlimited ammo plus the prospect of imbued arrows. Breaking boxes and wasting ammo is the least of my concerns. :)

[Therigar]

In the zerge world, things die to fast IMO, for most debuffs to be really useful (others may disagree)

In the slower "mortal" world, many debuffs may be very useful from ranged, as you could stand back and debuff the whole battlefield.

With the strong emphasis on arcanes, especially Pale Master, the use of Shattermantle seems valuable even for zergers.

Destruction (http://ddowiki.com/page/Destruction_(weapon)) also seems valuable. There are several quests where a key part of the strategy involves marking a target via Destruction and then piling on with all available DPS.

I think that both of these would prove useful whether in a zerg or mortal world.

[Therigar]

You deserve so much neg rep for this.

Why? For having an opinion that is different from yours?

Negative reputation is not a way to show disagreement. Negative rep is a tool to show that the language or way in which the opinion was expressed does not conform to forum guidelines -- without the necessity of reporting the post to moderators.

[Glenalth]

First of all, god bless you.

Second, what about other useful de-buff bows? Are there any worth having? I don't play in your world, but I've had a crippling repeater of slowburst that seemed effective. The crippling effect work on a large number of creatures, even some that I woudn't expect.

When you've got a decent threat range on a repeater, that new Stench (poison based) craftable effect basically duplicates and stacks with Crippling which can be granted from Shimmering Arrowhead. Could even through Improved Slowburst on there for the LoLs.

[Glenalth]

Keep testing Glenalth.

Has someone over their got an Epic Thornlord?

I may as well whizz Zexxi over if not.

Technically base damage for ET is 2D8 +4 (+8)

I can see UA becoming popular. it always should have been better anyhow

My main problem is that my pells keep dieing too quickly. I need to poke around the Devil's Battlefield until I can get that named troll to spawn.

[Glenalth]

It is just the actual dice rolled that are getting doubled. Results fell right in line with expected numbers after 30 or so shots and I spent another 5 minutes slowly peppering this poor troll to make sure the min/max I was seeing was correct.

1d6+5 -> 2d6+5

Played with Unwavering Ardency for 10 minutes or so and numbers were in line with what was expected, but due to the randomness of 4d12 I didn't hit the min/max. I did come within 3 points of the estimated min damage of it being just the die multiplied so I'm happy there.

2d12+5 -> 4d12+5

[krackythehoodedone]

Epic Thornlord?

Should then be getting 2D8 +4 x2 +8 ?

Has anyone checked

[Fenrir_Lorengard]

Leveling up my 20 ranger AA was very, very fun. Bows with special procs were great particularly in mid levels for trash mobs. Terror arrows with a paralyzing bow works wonders at keeping things in place (if another ranger is using an improved cursespewing bow then even better).

However, I knew from the start that bows would stop being effective at end game. So my build never focused only on bows, I tried to make myself a competent melee contributor as much as possible. I did that with max str and all level ups in str. The damage is respectable against favored enemies, and the elf bonus to longswords is decent. So now I basically run around using melee and use the bows while manyshot is on cooldown. I sometimes will use bows as well situationally while approaching enemies, firing off one or two shots before switching to melee when they get in range, or by taking out the caster (and aggroing him in the process) if he is in a hard to reach position for the melee.

It was, all in all, a learning experience. I fully expected to be able to use bows almost as much as melee when I started (even after reading about ranged combat... I expected more open areas and such in this game where ranging would shine), but leveling taught me such wasn't the case (at least not for someone starting with no uber gear - I have no idea how ranging from top gear feels like), and made me adapt. Bows are great tools at your disposal in the right situation.

When I TR (pretty close to it), I will do so in a more melee friendly splash build, while retaining all ranged feats I currently have.

If I had some advice to offer to new players (from a not really vet, but not really starting out player either) who love ranged combat, it would be:

1- Don't be a one trick pony. Check out builds in the forum and go with one of them. Don't be afraid to customize them, but think long and hard on these changes (maybe ask for advice, too).

2- Don't take epic gear into account when making your build. The grind is terrible, you will probably TR before getting whatever it is that you need. You can count with greensteel reliably, though, as that's relatively easy to acquire.

3- Your first character is a learning experience. It's almost inevitable to think that you could have done this or that differently. And you can always TR/LR.

4- You will not be top DPS, period. If that is important for you, you are looking at the wrong class to play.

5- Put away that bow while attacking raid bosses, unless you are MSing.

My ranger was based on Pwesiela's build, which proved to be very solid and new player friendly. Anyone lost in the art of building a ranged ranger could check out that guide for starters.