Call to... change caster damage (NOT NERF)

[R0cksteady]

The damage casters can do now, especially sorcs, is massive, but doesn't feel broken to me, at cap anyway. I would like to see that power stay unchanged, for now.

What I think a lot of the calls for nerfing comes from, is experiences in midlevel quests. It's completely boring leveling a melee character right now, because the most effort you really can put into a quest if there is a sorc in party is trying to take a swing at an enemy before it gets nuked into the stoneage. It just feels like you're piking if a good sorc is in party.

So what I purpose is backloading some of the damage, so that while at end game they still hit as hard, make the damage lower at midlevel (10-18), at least enough so that melees have a role.

[Rodasch]

The damage casters can do now, especially sorcs, is massive, but doesn't feel broken to me, at cap anyway. I would like to see that power stay unchanged, for now.

What I think a lot of the calls for nerfing comes from, is experiences in midlevel quests. It's completely boring leveling a melee character right now, because the most effort you really can put into a quest if there is a sorc in party is trying to take a swing at an enemy before it gets nuked into the stoneage. It just feels like you're piking if a good sorc is in party.

So what I purpose is backloading some of the damage, so that while at end game they still hit as hard, make the damage lower at midlevel (10-18), at least enough so that melees have a role.

I have news for you, that is indeed a "nerf", it's just a nerf to midlevel casters rather than all of them. Your title is misleading.

[dunklezhan]

The damage casters can do now, especially sorcs, is massive, but doesn't feel broken to me, at cap anyway. I would like to see that power stay unchanged, for now.

What I think a lot of the calls for nerfing comes from, is experiences in midlevel quests. It's completely boring leveling a melee character right now, because the most effort you really can put into a quest if there is a sorc in party is trying to take a swing at an enemy before it gets nuked into the stoneage. It just feels like you're piking if a good sorc is in party.

So what I purpose is backloading some of the damage, so that while at end game they still hit as hard, make the damage lower at midlevel (10-18), at least enough so that melees have a role.

I think you may have a point about the mid levels - however the problem with backloading is that it puts early level casters back onto the masters touch + greataxe tactic, which SUCKS. I do not play a caster to swing an axe. Also, it just means the first five or six levels are the same for everyone - melee melee melee with a few buffs thrown in. The last change deliberately frontloaded a lot of spells to fix this (and it worked).

Its a bit hard to see how you could frontload AND backload while smoothing out the mid levels. If a way could be found, I'd be all for it (and I say this as an avid player of my earth savant which arguably starts to lose effectiveness from L12 onwards anyway)

[DoctorWhofan]

I smell soft foamy stuff on this thread.

And, as an arcane caster, I spent the first 6-8 levels hiding behind said melee due to lack of spells/spellpoints/extreme squishiness/ability to kill quickly. THe casters would not be there at mid-level without the melees.

[MartinusWyllt]

... if there is a sorc in party....

This is the part you can fix. Instead of nerfing casters so you feel more important, just don't add them to your group...yes you are calling for nerfing them for a significant portion of the xp curve.

[mobrien316]

Stop trying to nerf my sorcerer.

[bebeosita]

The damage casters can do now, especially sorcs, is massive, but doesn't feel broken to me, at cap anyway. I would like to see that power stay unchanged, for now.

What I think a lot of the calls for nerfing comes from, is experiences in midlevel quests. It's completely boring leveling a melee character right now, because the most effort you really can put into a quest if there is a sorc in party is trying to take a swing at an enemy before it gets nuked into the stoneage. It just feels like you're piking if a good sorc is in party.

So what I purpose is backloading some of the damage, so that while at end game they still hit as hard, make the damage lower at midlevel (10-18), at least enough so that melees have a role.

/signed

[janave]

A good sorcerer will target enemy spellcasters, will try to hold special attack mobs eg: tripping dogs, etc etc. They are fine the way they are. Melees could use more love as of now, but nerfing casters should make noone happy.
The game is not just about damage output and sorcerers have their share of weaknesses. The simplest example is passing a trap on elite with blown up control panel :)

Sorcerers too run out of sp fast if they provide extended buffs and cast a couple of empowered/maximized spells. And then wand time, those are only good for passing time.

[pHo3nix]

I smell soft foamy stuff on this thread.

And, as an arcane caster, I spent the first 6-8 levels hiding behind said melee due to lack of spells/spellpoints/extreme squishiness/ability to kill quickly. THe casters would not be there at mid-level without the melees.

You don't need many spells, just acid blast, maximize and a clickie of superior erosion 3: zerg to red alert, acid blast, and again till the quest is over, never got any problem :) Before lvl 6 (5 for wizard) master touch is your friend, or snowball swarm too :) it's not like you are staying at lvl 1-6 that much time ;)

I think it's fine though, lvling a decent melee is easy too, just need some haste pots ;)

[Kawai]

/signed +++
Why? Meh. I'd like to see casters added back to the party again. Poor things get left out too much now. :(

[Emili]

I smell soft foamy stuff on this thread.

And, as an arcane caster, I spent the first 6-8 levels hiding behind said melee due to lack of spells/spellpoints/extreme squishiness/ability to kill quickly. THe casters would not be there at mid-level without the melees.

Most the arcane I know these days are not hiding. They blow by the first eight levels zurging every quests... do not blink or you're left behind. My wizard hid because she grew up in a pre-mod 3 eberron... but today's arcane run around like world class atheletes on a steroid rush...

I'll be TRing my wizard soon as I've nerve enough to take her out of epic farms and believe me the first eight levels will not last long at all.

[licho]

The damage casters can do now, especially sorcs, is massive, but doesn't feel broken to me, at cap anyway. I would like to see that power stay unchanged, for now.

What I think a lot of the calls for nerfing comes from, is experiences in midlevel quests. It's completely boring leveling a melee character right now, because the most effort you really can put into a quest if there is a sorc in party is trying to take a swing at an enemy before it gets nuked into the stoneage. It just feels like you're piking if a good sorc is in party.

So what I purpose is backloading some of the damage, so that while at end game they still hit as hard, make the damage lower at midlevel (10-18), at least enough so that melees have a role.

All hands on the board, somebody dare to suggested that casters and oh no sorcerers are little more powerful than melees. Cmon boyz, kill him, eat his body, and chew the bones! Do not let them touch our easy buttons!
;-)

So lets begin: If u feel like need hiding behind melees back, more bravery, the said backs blocks your fireballs. A lot of problems can be solved with acid blast, fireball and frost lance.

As for op, i see your point, the amount of dmg wizard can dish is insane, and if he go way of blast its 'faster' so melees can have nothing to do, as long as they are less agressive than said arcane. But in the same time im not sold of the solucion. Lets consider lv3 spells, they gain power till lv 10 and then cap at fireball acidblast 60dmg, frostlance 120 dmg, and ligbolt 150dmg potencial. The first two aoes just do not match at end game. Running with 60dmg base spells in Necro/Vale is not a option. (or maybe it is the option, but we r too fixed to current state).

Also problem can lie not in spells, but in items. Superior clikies increase dmg by 75% with single item which is not even sloted all the time. And getting superior clikie is a easy button. Melees have to fight on every extra dmg from the gear.

But honestly i have no good idea how to make melee vs casters more fair, maybe cap Wail to affect limited number of mobs.

So, that leaves buffing melees, or at least make them more fun. Adding some aoe trips and stuns, maybe some assasinacion based special attacks, some bonus feat for tactical one, make cleve and stun free for all melees. Fix vorpals, make paralyzer DC scale with BAB. Buff the melee.

[totalmir]

It just feels like you're piking if a good sorc is in party.

This is true if you have any double tr'd well built class in your group,and the rest of the party is average or worse.

[AMDarkwolf]

Does anyone remember the days when your caster had to go out, live by his wits, do what he could to help his group, and if things got really, really ugly, toss that ONE sleep spell he had loaded?

ya I forgot those days too.

Point is the more and more they make changes to 'make the key mashing people happy' the more and more the game bends over backwards for a class/build.

Its not (well not really) that the game has gotten harder for melee's, its just, as said above, melee's have little(if anything) to do except 'be the blocker for that big dude over there while I burn him'

Its not that we kill slower, or we die faster, its just that the 'changes' to the game make it stupidly easy for casters.

Next step will be to buff melee's. Then gotta buff the mobs. Then gotta buff healers cuz the mobs do more dmg. Then gotta buff the casters to be able to do comparable dmg again. Then gotta.... do u see whats happening here(And what HAS happened.)

My point is, yes the 'nerf this, nerf that' threads are really silly at this point(really guys?) But at least some of them have merit. DDO has seen some silly powercreep in the past 2 years, that just makes some stuff / builds garbage, which is fine, but not to the extent it is.

I really miss the game we had before epics/true res were around.

[Ryu_109]

I can sort of see your point, casters have alot of power, but so do melee, if you cant keep with the caster... dont... go do another part of the dungeon while he does his bit. when i lvled my melee id say 70% of the time i out killed anyone else in group, i was TR with full raid gear and minII, which could kill most mobs in 2 hits and with haste two hits comes off in no time, in mid lvls most mobs even with max will take more then 1 acid blast or fireball which becomes a serious drain on sp you could put empower on but then your sp goes before your half way to next shrine.

if you nerf mid lvl casters they will spend all there time hasting and raging the melee, and then its no fun for them, as it is at the moment the caster is able to stand at the front along with the fighters ive had levels and capped melee, caster and heal/evoc class and i found melee by far the most fun, hasting myself and thrrowing myself into a goup of mobs with cleave... ahhhhh... nothing like it :)

[DoctorWhofan]

Most the arcane I know these days are not hiding. They blow by the first eight levels zurging every quests... do not blink or you're left behind. My wizard hid because she grew up in a pre-mod 3 eberron... but today's arcane run around like world class atheletes on a steroid rush...

I'll be TRing my wizard soon as I've nerve enough to take her out of epic farms and believe me the first eight levels will not last long at all.


Perhaps there is a problem. I don't zerg. I get all the optionals. And my sorcerer (who is going through my first TR) takes her time to get everything done. There is something wrong with this, not sure what. At end game, casters are supposed to be the top dog, so I am ok with that. But not a low levels. The only reason my caster is taking her time and doing all the optionals is for the xp. (detest zerging, having tried it out several of my zerger friends. I find it dull, but if you like it, go for it!)

Perhaps there is a balance issue that needs to be addressed. I am not screaming the "N" (ok NERF!) word here, for there is other ways to balance a the game and classes than to nerf them.

[~sumptingwong]

Everyone that wants Nerfing on a certain class has probably not played that class, roll up a wiz/sorc and get it to 20, run a few epic, take your screen shot that you indeed capped it, finally make your post and I MIGHT respect your idea

/Not signed