Byoh

[Letrii]

If the LFM says BYOH, is it bad if I don't heal anyone on my cleric?

[Sequell]

I would say so...it is sort of your easiest ability as a cleric imo...up to you though if you don't WANT to heal.

If you think about it, it is like an Arcane that says BYOH - Bring Your Own Haste...

Poor form to ignore your best spells to assist the party IMO.

[Lissyl]

I would say no...but it would be in much better taste to heal those who actively help you also. You'll be a more memorable player for the things you didn't HAVE to do that you did anyway...than for the things that are expected.

Just my opinion.

[ORIGINALBAG0]

If the LFM says BYOH, is it bad if I don't heal anyone on my cleric?

If the LFM says BYOH, you are forbidden from healing anyone on your cleric. All SP must go to blade barriers and holy auras. Blind all of the mobs and complain that they don't kite properly.

[Arnhelm]

It doesn't really matter. After all, it's always the Cleric's fault.

:rolleyes:

[dkyle]

BYOH means be preparred to heal yourself.

It doesn't mean refuse to assist the party to the best of your abilities.

Chances are (but no guarantees), there are melee who are better at DPS, and arcanes that are better at CC, than you are. Keeping them healed is preferable to forcing them to waste time healing themselves. A Barbarian chain-chugging CSW pots obviously isn't helping the group as much as he could be if you'd just send him a heal.

Now, if you're truly the most effective member of the party, feel free to solo the quest while they tag along. If you're actually doing this, they shouldn't need heals anyway. This is not exactly a rare position to be in, for a veteran Divine.

[Paleus]

BYOH means be preparred to heal yourself.

It doesn't mean refuse to assist the party to the best of your abilities.

^This. When you join a BYOH group on a cleric you are not obligated to heal people as they should be self-sufficient. That said, if you have spare sp (highly probable in these runs as people aren't usually darwin cases) then you can help the party cut down on consumable costs by tossing heals where helpful. On top of that, dont be the cleric that joins the group, refuses to heal others while duking it out with misadventure for last place in kills. As long as you aren't that person, then you should be fine healing as much or as little as you judge needed. Its about maximizing your contributions to ensure party success, and that can mean using your sp for a heal just as much as a greater command, divine power, blade barrier, etc

[Sjiggie]

It depends on the party and if you know the people in it.

For example recently I lvl'd a double tr with a guildie of mine that was going through a cleric life. I didn't depend on his healing. We would split up and get the quest done in the fastest time we could.

However if you join a random BYOH group pugs will probably expect you to heal them.

[licho]

If the LFM says BYOH, is it bad if I don't heal anyone on my cleric?

Define bad?
Its legal, the BYOH could be mean literally. Nobody should expect you to notice their red bar.

In the same time, there are moments when single cast of mass cure for 100hp is more effective than choking serious pots by 3 melee. Then again, there is many players who choose non optimal way, since its funny. So choice is yours.



However if you join a random BYOH group pugs will probably expect you to heal them.

Wait... so whats the point of putting this latters into lfm text? Is it anything more than "whoaho only pros/tr/vets/docs" showoff mark?
or it is nasty trap for clerics, who try to avoid "im lemming, nead healbot hire with better AI and metamagic"

[knightgf]

If the LFM says BYOH, is it bad if I don't heal anyone on my cleric?

Here's a counter-question for you:

"If the LFM says BYOH, is it bad if I don't haste anyone on my sorcerer?"

[ExK444]

It's a good gesture, and sometimes, even in a BYOH group, healing your party is just the most effective thing you can do.

[Sleepsalot]

And all this time I thought BYOH meant Bring your own Ham...... Dang it all... LoL ""joking""

[Letrii]

Here's a counter-question for you:

"If the LFM says BYOH, is it bad if I don't haste anyone on my sorcerer?"

I would say no, since haste isn't required for quest, as healing is. To me, I never expect anyone to buff, unless required for quest such as resists for non-disarmable traps. Any buffs received are a bonus.

[TheRealest]

I would say so...it is sort of your easiest ability as a cleric imo...up to you though if you don't WANT to heal.

If you think about it, it is like an Arcane that says BYOH - Bring Your Own Haste...

Poor form to ignore your best spells to assist the party IMO.

Why? If an lfm said sharing techniques on how to make peanut butter and jelly sandwiches while doing shroud, i'd expect people to abide by the lfm and give hints and tips on how to make a good sandwiche. If you dont like preset rules, or cant do what the lfm says to an extent, dont join. That being said, spot healing in an emergency for an ally that gets in way too deep is a good favor, and you may get one in return, who knows?

Basically where you gotta draw the line is tossing a heal if they're in dire need and holding people's hands by pouring a bucket of cure potions over their heads.

[dkyle]

Wait... so whats the point of putting this latters into lfm text? Is it anything more than "whoaho only pros/tr/vets/docs" showoff mark?
or it is nasty trap for clerics, who try to avoid "im lemming, nead healbot hire with better AI and metamagic"

It says: "we're not waiting for a healer, so be ready"

If a healer-class does join, it's only natural to expect them to use their abilities to their greatest potential. That's not to say that everyone is obligated to fulfill all expectations at all times. If the healer refuses to heal, the group should be fine.

If, suppose, someone put "bring a haste clicky" in an LFM, that doesn't mean casters shouldn't cast haste. Their haste is better, and more beneficial to the party than a clicky. But if they really don't want to, the group should be fine without.

[Bodic]

It is never a cleric/fvs job to babysit, but if you are in melee its just as easy to drop a mass as it is to drop a single target cure. The RS burst is aoe and sorta free to cast you might well use it.

I would not top them off ever, but an occasional heal is good quicker is better as they say.

In a Byoh with a rogue that doesnt care about a chest lock that you want loot is it his/her responsibility to open it for you?
or a trap disabled?
Is the bard required to song buff you?

The answer is no, but it would be nice if they did.
apply that to heals.

[Lavek]

throwing a heal while your party member is swarmed with mobs and pots probably just wont cut it then...but he heals between the fights and helps in getting it done - yes

being someones babysitter just because the person thinks he doesnt have to get pots/own form of healing cuz he "wont get hit" - no

[Letrii]

My healer is only lvl 4, so no mass heals if that matters.

[TheRealest]

throwing a heal while your party member is swarmed with mobs and pots probably just wont cut it then...but he heals between the fights and helps in getting it done - yes

being someones babysitter just because the person thinks he doesnt have to get pots/own form of healing cuz "healer will take care of him" - no


fixed for ya ;)

[Sleepsalot]

Well in that case I am sure healing others can be a pain. I have a level 5 FvS and have no real problem healing others at times but when they run off not much one can do...If I was in your place I wouldn't get over worried about it at all.. Any toon I have I keep plenty of heal Pots on them...

Sleeps


My healer is only lvl 4, so no mass heals if that matters.

[Sjiggie]

Define bad?
Its legal, the BYOH could be mean literally. Nobody should expect you to notice their red bar.

In the same time, there are moments when single cast of mass cure for 100hp is more effective than choking serious pots by 3 melee. Then again, there is many players who choose non optimal way, since its funny. So choice is yours.



Wait... so whats the point of putting this latters into lfm text? Is it anything more than "whoaho only pros/tr/vets/docs" showoff mark?
or it is nasty trap for clerics, who try to avoid "im lemming, nead healbot hire with better AI and metamagic"
I never said that when a BYOH group is up and a cleric joins people can rush in and never worry about their own hp cause a cleric is there to babysit them. I just simply stated even in a BYOH group people can expect that you toss them the occasional heal.

Even if I join a byoh group with my silver flame pots does that mean I will sit at the shrine chucking heal pots when the cleric can easily top me off before he shrines. No I expect will expect a heal and I will frown upon a cleric who would refuse to do that.

Does that mean when I zerg off and are in mid combat I expect the cleric to babysit my hp? No I'll take care of my own red bar.

I'm just stating that there will be situations where people would expect a cleric to heal them. Does that mean that BYOH means nothing and I expect a nannybot? Not at all I never said that and will never expect that from a BYOH group.

[IBCROOTBEER]

If the LFM says BYOH, is it bad if I don't heal anyone on my cleric?

Nope ... I did it all the time on my TR when leveling my FvS ... if LFM says BYOH, you've got your own covered... time to zerg :)

[AndyD47]

Nope ... I did it all the time on my TR when leveling my FvS ... if LFM says BYOH, you've got your own covered... time to zerg :)

All of this.

BYOH doesn't mean bring-your-own-heals-unless-we-get-a-cleric-in-which-case-let-that-goon-heal-or-its-all-his/her-fault.

Just because you get a divine to show up doesn't mean you get to flip the script,that's just false advertising.

[Battery]

BYOH means be preparred to heal yourself.

It doesn't mean refuse to assist the party to the best of your abilities.

Chances are (but no guarantees), there are melee who are better at DPS, and arcanes that are better at CC, than you are. Keeping them healed is preferable to forcing them to waste time healing themselves. A Barbarian chain-chugging CSW pots obviously isn't helping the group as much as he could be if you'd just send him a heal.

Now, if you're truly the most effective member of the party, feel free to solo the quest while they tag along. If you're actually doing this, they shouldn't need heals anyway. This is not exactly a rare position to be in, for a veteran Divine.

spot on

[Orratti]

Byoh means bring your own healing simple as that. If you join on a cleric you may heal but it isn't your responsibility to do so. Occasionally should someone run out of pots, wands, or scrolls it would be good of you to cover them for the quest so they won't cost everyone 10% xp when they die but still that would be your choice. All I would expect from you in my group is to be willing to raise those who die and to keep yourself healed.

[edit] The number of times I've put up a byoh lfm and had someone join who later on once having a cleric join starts asking for heals pretty much set the rules in stone for me. Yes I see his free blue bar sitting there but I'm still chugging my pots. You better be ready to do the same.

[Narmolanya]

I always put BYOH in almost every LFM I put up. When I write it I don't expect heals from anyone even the classes that can heal. I write it to express that mindset to other who may join. It's more than were starting without a cleric, it means be able to take care of yourself no matter what.

That being said players always seem to help each other out. Bards, pallys, rangers, FvS, clerics, and anyone else with UMD has throw emergency heals on others in these groups. Clerics are just another class that can do that, even if they can do it best.

[likuei]

Gonna have to say, leave them to healing themselves. Some people use BYOH to con Clr/FvS into joining groups, with those classes thinking they were going to actually have fun playing instead of being a nanny.

Here is a test:

1. If you see the BYOH LFM, go anon and try to join.
2. If they let you join and see that you are a cleric and the first thing that is said "Cool,
we have a Clr/FvS", drop group and see how many tells you get asking you to come
back.
3. Tell them you want to enjoy your game also, and want the party to heal themselves
so you can get better at casting. See how long they hesitate before they say ok.

It is amazing that a group all the sudden becomes super uber zergers when a Clr/FvS joins.I have had to add lots of people to my friends list because of the not so nice comments and language that people use when they think that someone else is going to foot the bill for their fun.

[DoctorWhofan]

If the LFM says BYOH, is it bad if I don't heal anyone on my cleric?

Been there done that. :D

[PNellesen]

If the LFM says BYOH, is it bad if I don't heal anyone on my cleric?

eh, if I'm in a byoh on my cleric, I still try to keep people who are in range alive, but I don't feel bad if someone doesn't get back to me and they die. after all, it's implicit in the lfm that you'll be able to handle your own heals if necessary. That said, I'm a cleric, all they have to do is stay within 10 feet and they get healed for free from my burst or aura (in almost all content where a cleric makes a difference, at least.)

So... Not "bad", but maybe misguided ;)

[Standal]

My healer is only lvl 4, so no mass heals if that matters.

At level 4, all members of all parties should be bringing their own heals. You just don't have enough mana to provide all the healing that might be needed. Plus potions are comparable to your cure spells.

At higher levels, BYOH usually means that we aren't waiting for a cleric/fvs and that the leader can self-heal through the quest if the rest of the party also self-heals. If I join a party like that on my FVS I expect to heal, but not have to really focus one red bars all the time.

[Orratti]

I never said that when a BYOH group is up and a cleric joins people can rush in and never worry about their own hp cause a cleric is there to babysit them. I just simply stated even in a BYOH group people can expect that you toss them the occasional heal.

Even if I join a byoh group with my silver flame pots does that mean I will sit at the shrine chucking heal pots when the cleric can easily top me off before he shrines. No I expect will expect a heal and I will frown upon a cleric who would refuse to do that.

Does that mean when I zerg off and are in mid combat I expect the cleric to babysit my hp? No I'll take care of my own red bar.

I'm just stating that there will be situations where people would expect a cleric to heal them. Does that mean that BYOH means nothing and I expect a nannybot? Not at all I never said that and will never expect that from a BYOH group.

There needs to be a different type of lfm other than byoh for runs that have this type of attitude toward having a divine class in a byoh run. BYOH by definition means BRING YOUR OWN HEALING. Maybe if that isn't really exactly what you mean when you put up your lfm you should create another type of shortened version that really covers you real meaning. BSYOH bring some of your own healing. HTCO help the cleric out. Whatever you come up with is fine but you're definitely misusing byoh in your lfms.

Perhaps it is I that needs to create another type of shortened version of an lfm that covers MY real meaning. I think I'll use CYOA.

[IBCROOTBEER]

BYOH means be preparred to heal yourself.

It doesn't mean refuse to assist the party to the best of your abilities.

Chances are (but no guarantees), there are melee who are better at DPS, and arcanes that are better at CC, than you are. Keeping them healed is preferable to forcing them to waste time healing themselves. A Barbarian chain-chugging CSW pots obviously isn't helping the group as much as he could be if you'd just send him a heal.

Now, if you're truly the most effective member of the party, feel free to solo the quest while they tag along. If you're actually doing this, they shouldn't need heals anyway. This is not exactly a rare position to be in, for a veteran Divine.

Guess this depends on your build and level ... but I'm not sure about too many melee that can kill things faster than a cleric or FvS with Blade Barriers ... once past level 12, the cleric or FvS will have an easier time killing than almost any other class :)

[casters may be the exclusion to this rule due to their AoE spells also; however, they need to be pretty self sufficient to beat out the cleric and FvS running ahead with BB's]

[emptysands]

If the LFM says BYOH, is it bad if I don't heal anyone on my cleric?

Many BYOH groups are going to be Vet/TR LFMs - lack of a healer is not a show stopper and groups will generally just go regardless of the party mix.

If you join a BYOH LFM and don't wish to heal - I guess that is fair enough. However if you can contribute more by actually healing the non self healing dps and the quest completes faster, then that is a good thing.

[JollySwagMan]

As long as you're willing to contribute otherwise when players actually Bring Their Own Healing :).

I don't put up BYOH groups so much as 'all welcome, just bring some potions!' This helps avoid language confusion over what BYOH actually means, and often nets a few capable newbies and friendly vets in each group. I'm happy to share a stack of potions, or provide tips on minimising the danger from a particular attack/spell/trap, and learn some things myself :)

I guess I'm not so fussed about others topping themselves off or using curse potions - provided they are not endangering the party by playing foolishly! On the other hand when playing a Cleric in random groups it helps to expect this a fair bit, especially parties joined from a blind tell ;). I'd like to think that the 'all welcome' part discourages unfriendly players.

Team play in BYOH type groups can be varied. One of my favourite type of 'efficient' groups is where a quest is completed quickly by 3 pairs of players using solid teamwork. Soloing quests can be fun, but I join/put up an LFM to run with other players!

[leadhead]

If the LFM says BYOH, is it bad if I don't heal anyone on my cleric?


Dont take this the wrong way, but screw all of that stuff. Once you are in, you do whatever your character is capable of doing which is necessary to get the party to the end of the quest/raid.

All of these BS classifications and roles pontificated to death on this board serve nothing but to prevent your party from succeeding.

[Tinco]

BYOH is about expectation. When I join such a group then I know that I could do it without divine healing, either by potting, wands, scrolls or whatever. If I get a divine caster in those quests who thinks he's a special flower and refuses to spend any sp on healing others I'll put him on my 'friend' list. That's not byoh, that's just ********.

[moops]

I run BYOH all the time, mostly in groups with no healer whatsover--and if someone gets in trouble Ill certainly try to hit them with a Heal scrolls, cuz sometimes stuff just happens.

However if they are just not being a team player and playing badly I wont.

[MrTops]

BYOH is about expectation.

That's how I read it.

I see the BYOH groups meaning don't join unless you're prepared to run without a divine caster because we're not waiting around for one.

If a join a BYOH group with a divine caster, of course I'll heal folk. But, as is oft quoted on the forums, 'you can't heal stupid'.

[KillEveryone]

If you do, great, if you don't, it doesn't matter.

The LFM said BYOH.

I'll put those up a lot but I don't babysit others. They need to bring pots, wands or scrolls and stay alive. If I think about healing, I'll hit them up with a dose of red goodness but I'm not going to watch the bars like I would if I joined a party as a healer.

BYOH is bring your own heals. If someone joins and didn't bring their own, it is their fault.

[gloopygloop]

If the LFM says BYOH, is it bad if I don't heal anyone on my cleric?

If I am in a BYOH party, I kind of expect that everyone will probably still at least throw out an occasional heal to other party members IF they can AND IF if it will help get the quest finished faster AND IF it's convenient.

I've gone into BYOH runs on my Fighter and I can get my health back with the zillion cure pots that I carry, but it will take a while. If you want me to pike and chug during part of the quest while I get HP back, that's cool. I'll still be keeping up with whoever is up front - I just won't be getting into any of the action.

Once my HP are up to the point that I can actually participate in the fighting again, then I'll participate in the fighting again. If I happen to pick up a hjeal from someone else, then I can do that faster.

Either way is fine with me. :)

[Sleepsalot]

Still a level 4 Cleric at best has Cure Moderate wounds that's what 15-25 hp max heal???

[arkonas]

if they say byoh and you join it means no its not required of you to heal anyone but yourself. now is it a bonus to toss them one or 2 every once a while sure why not. it makes people laugh. when i tred my fvs and i didnt want to be a babysitter i wrote byoh

My stipulation was if your near me i do mass heals and hug me if you needed it but if you go off on your own well i think you figured that out already. i didnt want to be a nannybot. just do my thing kill stuff and healed if you kept up with me. im not a zerger or elitist but there are days where you just want to get it done and dont want to hold hands


So when you break it down no one can get mad at you if you choose not to heal since the group was byoh. there are still people out there that actually read lfms and still do it unless they just happen to be near your mass or bursts

[innersphere1]

Laugh at your party leader when he dies

[Crystalizer]

"byoh" should mean being self sufficient but not closed mind, when group gathers why not some mass cure, i guess this is what is mostly expected

[tdocxxericxx]

BYOH means be self sufficient. That said it is always a good idea to do whatever you can to help the party.

Tossing a heal or two is a good idea. But you shouldnt have to babysit.

[oldkraft]

BYOH-playing is, at the core,
WOW, not DDO.
The very expression did not exist in this game jargon before p2p
- and the invasion of 'I-me-mine'--players.
90% of it is actually hireling-use or the rarer dualbox-method and not any glorious heroicly expensive 'selfhealing'.
Anyway its a way to face a challenge, as good as any other ways at that...

But when it is combined with 'ZERG', which is not always clear in an lfm ???

yes entering - on BYOH-basis and with no room for hireling - a totally messed up instance where nothing is killed, every mob splintered and running around in strange places, where even sniffing a withered flower creates red alert .....
... thats not straight BYOH .-... most often more like fu very much.
But I know pple (multi-TR's ...) who stage such stuff with no bad intentions
Our Varr on Cannith is an honorable example - way remains cleared and you are actually healed if possible.
if you ever make it to where he is - but he has horrible 'collegues'.

Take it or leave it then - depends on how well you know the quest, but you have absolutely no obligations to save, heal or bring to shrine, anyone there - if anyone from upfront scorn you while you close-death-experience your way through their leftover mob-litter. If that is your choice.

[blade_of_will]

When I see a BYOH I read it as "hey, would be nice to have people to quest with, but be able to take care of your self and dont expect me or anyone else to do it for you." so... even if you are a divine, healing should not be your priority and your party should not expect it to be. That said, if someone dies when you could easily have saved them and saved 10% xp, or if you wipe/fail the quest because you decided you didnt want to heal, the party is probably going to get just as mad as they would at that arcane who decided to melee the entire dungeon or the fighter who didnt build any hp and run in blindly attacking the first thing he comes in contact with. You ARE expected to contribute to the party, and if you stubbornly dont heal when its clearly needed.. maybe you need to find better people to group with, easier quests, or a class that doesnt have support as a main role.

[Lithic]

I always run BYOH groups (though I actually put "bring your own heals" so there's no confusion).

On more than one occasion, I have had a cleric join such a group and complain that he wasn't able to heal us enough. One time, the guy actually dropped group because we didn't need his nannybot services.

[Miahoo]

Is it bad if I don't kill mobs with my ftr/barb? Is it bad if I dont do songs with my bard? is it bad if I dont use firewa- eh- spells with my wiz? is it bad if I dont do traps with my rog?

Anyone has his duty. Sure, Dont be a nanybot, dont heal stupid, demand people to be able to take care themselves. But also heal them in and between fights when you can.

Be a teammate!

p.s. I also heal with my rog using heal scrolls to keep the tank/people alive.

[SirShen]

OMG iv been getting it wrong all this time, i thought BYOH was Bring Your Own Halfing. (Joke)


I would still heal even if it said bring your own healing and i was on my cleric or FvS.

[Kriogen]

If the LFM says BYOH, is it bad if I don't heal anyone on my cleric?
Atleast heal yourself so you don't drop dead :p

I read BYOH as "we'll be busy slaying monsters not babysitting you".

[Paleus]

OMG iv been getting it wrong all this time, i thought BYOH was Bring Your Own Halfing. (Joke)

Here I thought it was Bring Your Own Handwraps. I guess I should stop declining the non-monks that click my LFMs.

[Miahoo]

OMG iv been getting it wrong all this time, i thought BYOH was Bring Your Own Halfing. (Joke)

Once on one of my byoh LFMs, someone apply and post: "Buying hirelings and omw!"

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Yes.

But you should only have to do it when it is convienant or in emergencies.

People who join a BYOH run, should be able to take care of any minor boo boos they get along the way. And should not require a baby-sitter.

(of course.....I think that about everyone in any group....)

[Phidius]

BYOH means "bring your own heals".

Not "contribute the best you can", or "looking for a healer but I'm too lazy to change the classes".

If you join an lfm (or put up an lfm) with BYOH and expect someone else to heal you, you're a moron.

Having said that, I run BYOH all the time, and I heal others. But if someone consistently grabs aggro with 5% if their health, they're on their own.

I'll throw them all the raises they want, though :D

[Thrudh]

If the LFM says BYOH, is it bad if I don't heal anyone on my cleric?

Yes, it's bad... You shouldn't have to spend a lot of your SP on healing, and you shouldn't have to babysit anyone in a BYOH group, but of course you should throw a cure spell now and then to someone who is low on health.

[TheDjinnFor]

Now, if you're truly the most effective member of the party, feel free to solo the quest while they tag along. If you're actually doing this, they shouldn't need heals anyway.

^this

Byoh means (at least for me) that I'm not waiting 30 minutes for a nannybot to join our party; I'd rather start now and fill now and finish it in twenty minutes with some resource usage then start in thirty minutes and complete it in fifteen. I'm willing to use resources to ensure a quicker overall run; if a divine is in the party, however, chances are we'll complete faster if they toss me a heal every once in a while rather than them having me chain-chugging pots and not killing things. So a divine who doesn't heal doesn't really belong in a byoh group, from my perspective.

[Pomdude]

I always thought BYOH meant "Bring your own Hireling" as you will need someone to converse with as the rest of the group zerg off and die.

:)

[PNellesen]

On more than one occasion, I have had a cleric join such a group and complain that he wasn't able to heal us enough. One time, the guy actually dropped group because we didn't need his nannybot services.

:eek: My head just exploded...

I can guarantee you, if I join a BYOH group, I will NOT complain if the group doesn't need me to nannybot them. I will instead try to kill-steal from them with every offensive spell on my list ;)

[Phidius]

...
Now, if you're truly the most effective member of the party, feel free to solo the quest while they tag along. If you're actually doing this, they shouldn't need heals anyway. This is not exactly a rare position to be in, for a veteran Divine.

In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is.

Which is why it is often easier to carry soulstones than to keep them up.

In a BYOH group, the onus is on you to avoid being in that state.

[TheDjinnFor]

I always thought BYOH meant "Bring your own Hireling" as you will need someone to converse with as the rest of the group zerg off and die.

:)

Someone asked me how they could 'bring their own healing' to a reavers fate. I linked them 100 Cure Serious Wounds potions. They apparently thought byoh meant to bring a hireling healer lol.

[grodon9999]

Does this thread serve any purpose other than for veterans to feel smug about noobs who haven't learned our tricks yet?

[jaegarnel]

Does this thread serve any purpose other than for veterans to feel smug about noobs who haven't learned our tricks yet?

Considering that it was started by a lvl 4 cleric who was asking for clarification on what his role in a byoh group is, I'd say yes.

Personally, I haven't ever joined a BYOH PUG, despite carrying dozens of CSW pots and a CSW wand, because I'm not sure if that would be enough. I also associate the term with zerg, and I've found that as a new player I didn't enjoy zerging, especially in quests I'm running for the first time.

I think a thread making clear what people's expectations in a BYOH group are is very useful.

[Thrudh]

Considering that it was started by a lvl 4 cleric who was asking for clarification on what his role in a byoh group is, I'd say yes.

I think a thread making clear what people's expectations in a BYOH group are is very useful.

This.

BYOH means you better bring some potions, because we might be heading out without a healer... It doesn't mean if a cleric does join, he or she will never heal anybody.

I can heal myself, and haste myself, but if I'm in a group with a cleric who never heals, or a wizard who never hastes, I notice and consider them bad players.

[Orratti]

So I suppose in the end the consesus is yes. You should heal but no one should expect you to. Everyone in a byoh group should be ready to keep themselves up on their own but covering them in a battle when near death or throwing a cure or heal on them to get back most of their hps afterward only makes sense to do since you are more capable of getting the job done quicker and getting the group moving again than they are.

That would be the consensus. Still in a byoh group it is the responsibility of the individuals in the group to keep themselves up so if you want to spend your blue bar throwing soundburst, searing light, cometfall, destruction, mass inflict wounds spells and keep just enough left to make sure that you yourself don't drop dead that is also your perogative.

[Letrii]

Thanks for all the input.

[MrInformative]

I think it depends if you are trying to make new friends or roleplaying a jerk?

[somenewnoob]

On my cleric I would never not heal people, even if it was a byoh lfm. On any toon I use whatever abilities they have to help the group succeed, on a cleric, healing is a big part of that.

But if somebody yelled at me after they died, I would say "It said BYOH!! The H does not stand for Heineken!" lol

[Gooch]

i never understood the point of this. Even on my sorc with very low hp, in order to heal myself i need to chub a ton of pots. It takes forever and it costs $. I can't imagine how long it would take to self heal as a barb or the like. Why would anyone choose to run a party like that rather than have the healer heal?....or wait for a healer if you don't have one.

[Phidius]

...or wait for a healer if you don't have one.

I hate waiting.

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTL39FLDi6FHnQrBgZZUS_dsvqvEoEJm cixnsiTfjcjKlceTqrz

BYOH isn't for everyone - if you need a "healer", don't join. It's not rocket science.

[Orratti]

i never understood the point of this. Even on my sorc with very low hp, in order to heal myself i need to chub a ton of pots. It takes forever and it costs $. I can't imagine how long it would take to self heal as a barb or the like. Why would anyone choose to run a party like that rather than have the healer heal?....or wait for a healer if you don't have one.

I get tired of waiting for a healer. Some don't. If I slap byoh on an lfm sure most of the time a healing class will join, no reason to change the rules afterwards just because they did. That also doesn't mean that just because there is already a healer type in my byoh party you can join up planning on relying on them to keep you up. If you can't take care of yourself out of your own pocket don't join a byoh lfm, simple enough.


I think it depends if you are trying to make new friends or roleplaying a jerk?

If the healers in a byoh lfm have to take care of your healing for you in order to make a new friend who is the jerk?

The only reason I put up my byoh lfm in the 1st place is to have help killing the enemies so I take less equipment damage and use less pots then I would if I were soloing. I didn't put it up there so I could sucker a healer into joining thinking he wouldn't be responsible for keeping the party up and going. Going completely offensive caster saving enough mana to keep himself alive would not only be acceptable but would be just plain great for me. It saves me pots, wands, and scrolls. I see plenty of barbs that join up. Some understand the lfm and have themselves covered some end up riding in the backpack of someone else. The preference is for 5 well equipped experienced soloers that aren't going to have a problem with being self sufficient join up and take care of themsleves while working as a group to complete the quest.

I suppose you could say in those cases that not only is everyone going to be responsible for their own healing, almost always they are all also going to, individually, do everything they can to also keep up the rest of the party. So not only are they bringing their own healing, everyone of them that can usually will also heal others.

[varusso]

If the LFM says BYOH, is it bad if I don't heal anyone on my cleric?

BYOH means exactly that: Bring your own heals. It means *EVERYONE* is expected to take care of themselves, and if they are not up to the task, then they should not be joining that group.

Now that being said, if you, as a white hat, WANT to play healer for the group, that is entirely up to you. Most people who start a BYOH group do so because they dont feel like waiting around for 20 mins for a healer to join, when they could have just run the quest 2-3 times already. But no one in the group should be expecting the white hat to play healer.

Of course, if someone is doing their "job" in the group, and they get a bit overwhelmed, its just good sense and manners to toss them a heal until it is back under control, then let them take care of themselves after that. If for no other reason than to save the death penalty on the XP :D

Basically, if a player cant hack being BYOH, they shouldnt be in a BYOH group. But that doesnt mean we cant still help each other out if it goes south.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

My preffered party makeup is six people of any class who take care of themselves, but also take care of each other...with whatever abilities they have.

Lots of classes have free or cheap heals. But everyone can buy pots.
Lots of classes can find ways to raise others.

Have six ranged guy in the group? Or six Wizards? Clerics? Rogues?

they can all get great synergy because of using the same tactics together.

(but I'm kinda scared of six barbarians. :eek: )

But six good players of any combination can complete any quest. (in fact, just about every quest has been soloed.)

Good players know how to take care of themselves.
But they also know how to take care of other people too.
(and the ones I like gladly do so.)

[Calebro]

So I suppose in the end the consesus is yes. You should heal but no one should expect you to. Everyone in a byoh group should be ready to keep themselves up on their own but covering them in a battle when near death or throwing a cure or heal on them to get back most of their hps afterward only makes sense to do since you are more capable of getting the job done quicker and getting the group moving again than they are.

That would be the consensus. Still in a byoh group it is the responsibility of the individuals in the group to keep themselves up so if you want to spend your blue bar throwing soundburst, searing light, cometfall, destruction, mass inflict wounds spells and keep just enough left to make sure that you yourself don't drop dead that is also your perogative.

This.
A thousand times, this.

If you join a BYOH run on your healer, all it means is that the quest should be extremely easy.
It is not your obligation to watch the red bars, and no one should expect you to, because they should all be watching their own, and they should all be prepared to heal themselves. So *if* you decide to toss a few heals every now and again, you are saving the other players' resources that they would have otherwise used.
That's certainly a nice gesture, but it is by no means required.

Use your mana for Soundburst at low levels, BB/Destruction at higher levels, or whatever your preference happens to be. If someone gets low, toss them a heal if they're close by and save them time and resources. If the group happens to be bunched up and a little short, toss a MCLW and help them out.
You'll get a lot of "thank you"s from the group, while still playing the way that you want to play.

[Rian]

My preffered party makeup is six people of any class who take care of themselves, but also take care of each other...with whatever abilities they have.

Lots of classes have free or cheap heals. But everyone can buy pots.
Lots of classes can find ways to raise others.

Have six ranged guy in the group? Or six Wizards? Clerics? Rogues?

they can all get great synergy because of using the same tactics together.

(but I'm kinda scared of six barbarians. :eek: )

But six good players of any combination can complete any quest. (in fact, just about every quest has been soloed.)

Good players know how to take care of themselves.
But they also know how to take care of other people too.
(and the ones I like gladly do so.)

Was in the car one day with my dad musing the idea of a DPS barbarian being able to use scrolls to fix himself up...now I have to make a completionist wf barbarian lol :D

[luvirini]

Was in the car one day with my dad musing the idea of a DPS barbarian being able to use scrolls to fix himself up...now I have to make a completionist wf barbarian lol :D

The problem is: a heal scroll heals for 110hp*heal amp..

So while on my barbarian/fighter/rogue life of Anilee, she COULD scroll heal at 80%+ success rate, but at 600+ hp and no spell use while raging.. it still takes a long time to selfheal, so while it is possible to do it , it is annoying..

[Rian]

The problem is: a heal scroll heals for 110hp*heal amp..

So while on my barbarian/fighter/rogue life of Anilee, she COULD scroll heal at 80%+ success rate, but at 600+ hp and no spell use while raging.. it still takes a long time to selfheal, so while it is possible to do it , it is annoying..

That's why you wait til AFTER the fight. It's faster and cheaper than pots.
Got funny looks when my 600 or 700 (can't remember, I TR'd him lol) unraged didn't have pots...It's a plat sink to me.
I find more mnemonic pots on my melees than my casters anyways, so I don't mind pestering the cleric and paying them for their time :)

[nolaureltree000]

no, i would never expect a heal from someone else during a BYOH run. even if i got cornered and was approaching death, its not someone else's job to keep me healed up. it was my own dumb fault for biting off more aggro than i could kill or heal myself through. i want that cleric offensive casting so we can zerg even faster, not spending time keeping me topped off.

[Culver.Civello]

If your on a Healer and the quest says BYOH, It means 'Healer Solos quest while rest take up space in backpack'. ^-^

I occasionally will throw some heals in BYOH, but I won't go out of my way to do it.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Was in the car one day with my dad musing the idea of a DPS barbarian being able to use scrolls to fix himself up...now I have to make a completionist wf barbarian lol :D

I've had a Barbarian use a res scroll on me before...that surprised me.
(and was a little embarrasing. :( )

[Rian]

I've had a Barbarian use a res scroll on me before...that surprised me.
(and was a little embarrasing. :( )

LOL, probably scared the scroll into being used.
"If you don't work I'll burn you and show you to your divine scroll buddies!"
or
"If you don't work the Heal scrolls gets it!" ahhh...the fun things you can do with a barbarian

[Meetch1972]

If I join a BYOH, I'm prepared to heal myself when necessary, and if my character's soul stone makes an appearance then it ain't anyone elses fault (except maybe for the occasional griefer).

If there's a divine healer (or someone with repair for this life) who sees me killing stuff and decides things work better if I keep swinging sharp things around, then I'll take those heals and power ahead. Great!

If my toon gets low on HPs and there's no healer to be seen who is supposed to care about keeping him alive, he'll chug pots/whip wands while moving onto the next fight, or if brown smelly stuff hits whirling blades enough to make my character consider growing a tail and running home with said tail firmly stuck between his legs then I will somehow extract him from the fight to restore him back to good condition before returning to the fray.

I NEVER expect a healer to top my hps off (everyone should carry the means to do this!!!), but if the healer wants to, that's fine too. I'm considering having my WF carry around a CLW wand just to bring up the poor unfortunates who find themselves unconscious... of course, UMD is required for this for most classes.

[goodspeed]

If I join one of those I literally do bring my own healer lol. And no I aint taking the time to pull the puppet string and work miracles to make it do it's job. Hard enough getting the **** thing to heal me.

If it's a slayer situation I walk off on my own and let the rest fend for themselves.

[Letrii]

I've never used soundburst and now lvl 5 with 3rd level spells. Is it worth using soundburst?

[Calebro]

I've never used soundburst and now lvl 5 with 3rd level spells. Is it worth using soundburst?

OP says you're a cleric, which means more than likely Wisdom is your primary stat, so the answer is a RESOUNDING yes. Soundburst is one of the best spells you can be casting at the moment. The small amount of damage isn't worthy, no. But the AoE stun effect is amazing.
Slot it. Use it. Love it. And the rest of the party will love it as well.

On my low level divines, Soundburst is almost literally the ONLY spell I ever cast besides opening buffs. And that includes cures, because you don't have any damage to heal if all of your enemies are always stunned.