Turbine: why is swearing a bannable offence?

[mattysixEU]

since the chat filter is on from the start, a player HAS to take it of and fully realises what they are doing, so why do you make swearing bannable?

not arguing, just want an answer.

[Impaqt]

since the chat filter is on from the start, a player HAS to take it of and fully realises what they are doing, so why do you make swearing bannable?

not arguing, just want an answer.


Because word and text filters are not "Permission"

This is a Private game. The only answer you need is.

"Because thats the way turbine runs the game"

[Delt]

Because it is.

[insaneuou]

Ethics, Morals!

[Rauven]

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=3875529&postcount=66

Your answer.



The profanity filter is not there to allow people to swear with impunity. The filter is there to help assist people who want to keep profanity out of their game experience. Just because a word is filtered does not mean the person swearing does not need to follow the community guidelines. Cursing in-game can result in disciplinary action, even if caught by the profanity filter. This has been the case all along, and is not new.

[danotmano1998]

Simply because Turbine says so, and it's their playground.

I would venture to guess that they don't want their game kid-unfriendly as it would decrease the possible player base.

[Arnhelm]

There are whole famlilies who play DDO together. Turning off the filter is quite simple for an inquisitive youngster.

[Chai]

since the chat filter is on from the start, a player HAS to take it of and fully realises what they are doing, so why do you make swearing bannable?

not arguing, just want an answer.

Ive seen this excuse used in every MMO ive played.


Because word and text filters are not "Permission"

This is a Private game. The only answer you need is.

"Because thats the way turbine runs the game"

This is the answer.

Its not a matter of "dont turn the chat filter off if you dont like it" and if you think it is, its a matter of one mere technicality anyhow. Harassment is an offense and the difference is the person has to ask you to refrain from doing it once before its considered harassment. usually the arguements in general chat are as follows: Person swears. Person2 asks them to refrain. Person tells them to turn the chat filter on if they dont like it, then continues to swear. Person disappears for a few days.

What I find alot of MMO producers dont like is people who walk the fine line between perfectly fine and ban-able offense. Make that line more vague and people tend to error more on the side of caution, because they know that whats funny to some is offending to others.

[BOgre]

the chat filter disable is there so that friends can say the odd '****' or 'sh**' in a party. I doubt anyone would get banned for that. But if you spam general chat with 'VATIC*** VATIC*** VATIC*** VATIC*** VATIC*** VATIC*** VATIC*** VATIC*** ' well, you can expect some measures to be taken.

[Bodic]

http://realmillenniumgroup.homestead.com/files/esrb_teen_logo_150.jpg

and the filter works but not in tells, if it is in tells it can be taken as unwarrented, but used in a chat you must remove the block thus it is not abke to be used against you.

[Galeria]

Honestly, people already swear up a storm in voice chat. Do you really need to be able to type in your swear words too?

It's like second hand smoke. You might enjoy swearing but those around you don't need to have their playing experience ruined.

I would definitely not allow my kids to play if swearing were allowed in typing chat and as it is, they can't listen to voice chat unless they are playing with people we know.

[Uska]

for one thing the filter is to senstive and filters words that arent profane for another a mature person doesnt need to and shouldnt use profanity slipping in voice chat is one thing but you have actualy think out what you type so there is no slip there.

[Arnhelm]

Ok, I'm going to turn this around a bit.

Why do you WANT to use profanity in open chat?

[steelblueskies]

I like "because this is now wow", as a secondary answer.
Helps prevent something common over there in city areas and some other zones. It's also logical as an answer to why the filter eats item links like scepter of spell *********** VI.

Find a former wow player and ask them about barrens chat. We don't need or want that here.

[Gkar]

and the filter works but not in tells, if it is in tells it can be taken as unwarrented, but used in a chat you must remove the block thus it is not abke to be used against you.

If you read the moderator quote above you will see you are incorrect. Many people have been banned for swearing in party or general chat.

Most people turn off the filter because it filters in game words, like spell pen and even some quest names so it isn't very usuable.

[Memnir]

To paraphrase every parent every where...
Because I .[Turbine]. said so.


That's really about it. Turbine wishes language to be clean on their servers, and since it's their game that takes place on their property - that's their right. The existence of the filter is just one more degree of enforcing that wish. In fact, the filter should be a clue that Turbine does not want that kind of language being tossed about at all.

[Dawnsfire]

Part of it is because the filter couldn't possibly be programmed to cover every swear word in every language used by every Turbine customer. It requires actual human judgement to decide what is really objectionable. It just helps to filter some of the most common ones.

For example: There is a sword type in the game that some people might object to in RL but it really has nothing at all to do with the wedlock status of a fellow's father. So should the filter cover that? I hope it wouldn't but I leave the filter off because of stuff like that.

Or you can just accept the common answer (it is at least as valid) given here: It is Turbine's sandbox and they make the rules.

[Missing_Minds]

The question explains his sudden need for a 3 day break.

[Galeria]

Lol!

[SaneDitto]

'Cause Turbine says, and it's Turbine's playground we're having fun in. Filter's just there to censor out any nasty stuff pouring out before the culprit gets caught.

[Singular]

Swearing should not be a bana-ble offense unless the swear-er is stalking whom s/he is talking to.

[teh_meh]

Some people play this game with their grandparents or younger children and don't want them exposed to little wankers running around with potty mouths.

The fact that this doesn't even occur to some people demonstrates the lack of parenting they themselves had.

[flaggson]

The fact that this doesn't even occur to some people demonstrates the lack of parenting they themselves had.

+1 for this ... so true


and to answer the OP because Turbine says so...

Obviously if this is even a question that needs to be asked... someone needs to be the moral moderator

[justagame]

IMHO:

Turning off the chat filter ensures that the occasional off-color word (or innocent word like spell pen...) from friends doesn't get blocked. It's not there to give people permission to act any way they want. People who want to harass and bombard players with profane insults, only to smugly remark "turn on your chat filter if you don't like it" simply don't belong in the community.

[twigzz]

Some people play this game with their grandparents or younger children and don't want them exposed to little wankers running around with potty mouths.

The fact that this doesn't even occur to some people demonstrates the lack of parenting they themselves had.

QFT! My 7 year old will report your butt quick! :D


I kid. My boy only plays with me but he knows how to report.

[madmaxhunter]

Swearing should not be a bana-ble offense unless the swear-er is stalking whom s/he is talking to.

I think necroing threads should be a bannable offense. ;)

[teh_meh]

I think necroing threads should be a bannable offense. ;)

I wish people would search out and necro more original-topic threads instead of us seeing 27 new threads, all about the same thing.

[Memnir]

I think necroing threads should be a bannable offense. ;)
I guess it just takes some folks a year plus to think of a good response. :D

[Rip-V-Winkle]

I think necroing threads should be a bannable offense. ;)

Well I have heard of people got infractions for necroing a topic.
Which is Sad since Turbine lacks the Good feature of Forum pruning.
If they would implement that.
Would solve the issue.

[Auralana7214]

I guess Common Decency is not so common anymore...:rolleyes:

[7-day_Trial_Monkey]

Well I have heard of people got infractions for necroing a topic.
Which is Sad since Turbine lacks the Good feature of Forum pruning.
If they would implement that.
Would solve the issue.

Being able to search a topic and read the past discussions is very useful. If you truly have something new to add to the discussion, post a new thread and link to the old one.

And don't swear.

[vegabond1969]

QFT! My 7 year old will report your butt quick! :D


I kid. My boy only plays with me but he knows how to report.

My 9 yo old plays with her mother and I and she does know how to report and /addignore. I made sure those were two of the first things I taught her :p



Being able to search a topic and read the past discussions is very useful. If you truly have something new to add to the discussion, post a new thread and link to the old one.

And don't swear.

And start another topic for those who search for information to trip over with only a few post added? If a topic is relevant to someone and is a year or more old, than it must still be relevant and reply worthy.

[DethTrip]

The answer is in my signature.

[Synsuous]

It can actually be difficult to type with the chat filter on. For example, I tried to type 'Con' and 'bite' and both were filtered.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Because too many people will just continue to do inappropriate things, no matter how much you try to reason with them... or explain to them what is considered proper and socially accepted, in a mixed culture gaming environment....


... that the only way to get them to follow the rules is to have a punishment painful enough to them that they will adjust their actions accordingly.

[lugoman]

It really doesnt make sense. If you curse and all anybody sees is ****, how is that offensive? I could understand *#&! being offensive but not ****.

If a tree curses in the forest and no one is around to hear it, will it still get banned?

[Todesnymphe]

[QUOTE=lugoman;4636651If a tree curses in the forest and no one is around to hear it, will it still get banned?[/QUOTE]

Yes, banned into a lit fireplace.

[susiedupfer]

I guess Common Decency is not so common anymore...:rolleyes:

Neither is common sense.

[FrancisP.Fancypants]

Swearing should not be a bana-ble offense unless the swear-er is stalking whom s/he is talking to.

Do you use creative punctuation when you swear in chat?

[Singular]

Swearing doesn't hurt you. It's not going to force you to throw out your morals. You aren't going to become an evil person if you hear someone swear. You'll probably forget about that person within the hour.

[BitkaCK2]

Because a sandbox is not a reason or excuse for potty mouth... unless you're a cat.... in which case you're prolly not playing DDO as much as stepping on keyboards and shedding. Besides for a cat human cuss words and #$%^&*( prolly don't look all that different. I would add more but post #5 by Rauven (http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=3924065&postcount=5) covered it. Anything more is either QQ or trying to impose your opinion on someone else's sensibilities.

You can shake your fist at the sky proclaiming your right and freedom to cuss at will, but ultimately it's Turbine's sandbox and every time you log in you agree to play by their rules.

bitkaCK2

[goodspeed]

usually the only time someone gets banned for cussn is when some dude calls the wahhmbulance when another pvper sends em a tell saying how great of a time they had with some member of their family. Or something else after they've baited them through open chat or emote.

Then they do the report and grin as the other pvp guy is put in time out. Not that anyone would ever do something like that.....

[notte.oscura]

which question is it in the first place??

isn't it a basic rule of respect to avoid behaviour that could disturb other people?

it is really common sense, even before turbine enforcement of rules... i'm amazed

[TekkenDevil]

Ok, I'm going to turn this around a bit.

Why do you WANT to use profanity in open chat?

Because some mature people out there use light swear words in their every day communication.
Christianity and "American Family Values" aren't the only, nor the proper view on life.

Sorry if that offends you. And it doesn't matter what Turbine wants. There's a functioning profanity filter. If you don't like it, turn it on.
Any other argument is a bunch of politically correct semantics.

All I can say to most people in this thread is:
Grow up.

(This coming from a person who got banned from in-game chat once, because I swore while playing with my group of friends, with one random person joining in from the LFM getting offended.)

[Gkar]

since the chat filter is on from the start, a player HAS to take it of and fully realises what they are doing, so why do you make swearing bannable?

not arguing, just want an answer.

You have to turn the chat filter OFF if you want to play this game in a usable way (considering several item names, abilities, and quest names are on the banned list of words)




http://realmillenniumgroup.homestead.com/files/esrb_teen_logo_150.jpg

and the filter works but not in tells, if it is in tells it can be taken as unwarrented, but used in a chat you must remove the block thus it is not abke to be used against you.

Incorrect, as demonstrated by the dev post above.

[Uska]

Because some mature people out there use light swear words in their every day communication.
Christianity and "American Family Values" aren't the only, nor the proper view on life.

Sorry if that offends you. And it doesn't matter what Turbine wants. There's a functioning profanity filter. If you don't like it, turn it on.
Any other argument is a bunch of politically correct semantics.

All I can say to most people in this thread is:
Grow up.

(This coming from a person who got banned from in-game chat once, because I swore while playing with my group of friends, with one random person joining in from the LFM getting offended.)

Most work places are likely to fire you for such speech at least
any place I have worked but then everyone I work with is educated and your wrong it does matter what turbine wants its their game and they make the rules and they say no cursing part of growing is knowing that you have to obey rules even ones you don't like.

[Hambo]

Part of it is because the filter couldn't possibly be programmed to cover every swear word in every language used by every Turbine customer. It requires actual human judgement to decide what is really objectionable. It just helps to filter some of the most common ones.

For example: There is a sword type in the game that some people might object to in RL but it really has nothing at all to do with the wedlock status of a fellow's father. So should the filter cover that? I hope it wouldn't but I leave the filter off because of stuff like that.

Or you can just accept the common answer (it is at least as valid) given here: It is Turbine's sandbox and they make the rules.

Another part is that the filter is a very simple program, operating strictly from a list of words... Hence the specific sword type mentioned above as well as a certain caster buff.

There have been instances of words filtered because a part of the word matched the filter.

If the program had been written using a context-based algorythm it would be more accurate but probably take much longer to filter all the text chat windows and probably be the biggest cause of lag in the game. :D

[edit] If a word being filtered makes no sense, keep in mind that it also filters out 'offensive' words from pther languages as well.

[350zguy]

I find word filters, silly and very 1980s.

Yeah, the word <insert word> is bad. In and of itself. It has "powers" mystical powers to harm people, just by its utterance.

I find swear word filters, like any other superstition. That somehow the word itself has the power, and not the context it is in.

I can berate, belittle, and be a HUGE jerk. Never saying a single swear word...

Oh noes the internet and our social system will collapse because I used a black listed word!

People who can't handle swear words have a small mind.

All that said, I just hope they blacklist a common dictionary word. Just for fun... Like uh... "ignorance". Just add it to the filter, and enforce it. Give out 3 day suspensions for anyone who says it.

It's just as silly as any other "word" filter. Ignorance is a dirty word...

Nice necro BTW.

[Hambo]

It really doesnt make sense. If you curse and all anybody sees is ****, how is that offensive? I could understand *#&! being offensive but not ****.

If a tree curses in the forest and no one is around to hear it, will it still get banned?

Try it and report back to us... :D

[Dysmetria]

And it doesn't matter what Turbine wants. There's a functioning profanity filter. If you don't like it, turn it on.
Any other argument is a bunch of politically correct semantics.

All I can say to most people in this thread is:
Grow up.

(This coming from a person who got banned from in-game chat once, because I swore while playing with my group of friends, with one random person joining in from the LFM getting offended.)Clearly it does matter what Turbine wants, that is why they banned you.

I don't understand this obsession with the filter. The filter really has nothing to do with it. Anyone can still report you whether they have it on or not, and the dev will review what you actually typed and take the appropriate action from there.

If anyone needs to grow up it seems clear it is those people who are desperately trying to justify their reasons for breaking the rules they agreed to follow. Apparently they haven't even learned to control their language when typing yet, and I can only guess how much less control they have when they are speaking out loud.

[Buggss]

Funny thing is there's at least 2 places in the game an npc specifically uses the word bas%&*d as a directed insult, not just to describe a sword variety.

Isn't that the same?

Should Turbine ban themselves?

[Uska]

Funny thing is there's at least 2 places in the game an npc specifically uses the word bas%&*d as a directed insult, not just to describe a sword variety.

Isn't that the same?

Should Turbine ban themselves?

doubt anyone is banned for that word unless they are using it as an insult toward another player and inustling a player is a possible cause for a ban anyways whether you curse or not.

[Hobgoblin]

doubt anyone is banned for that word unless they are using it as an insult toward another player and inustling a player is a possible cause for a ban anyways whether you curse or not.

i may be skirting the line here - but i was banned for that.

someone asked the difference between bastard swords and kopeshs and all said was the kopeshes did more damage

i was reported - got a 3 day ban. i appealed it and got unbanned after about a day. so it does happen

hob

[XiaNYdE]

Not that i care one way or the other if you can or cannot swear in chat, but to say it's to protect minors is an absolute joke, my kids hear more profanities in the average tv show these days then they would read or hear in a DDO chat and have any of you stepped into a school recently?? anyone with kids knows exactly what i mean.
Not to mention most of the words i have seen used in chat are listed in the oxford dictionary, add to that what is cursing in one country, is perfectly acceptable in another. (an example; here in Australia i can call my best mate a c*** and he will think nothing of it, the word changes with context and tone, raise your voice and say it to someone you don't know in a pub ....well one of you is going to bleed)

I myself received a warning over a year ago for something i deemed perfectly acceptable to say, even have said it to customers in my store to make a point, never once had anyone tell me off for it until DDO (needless to say it won't be said here again lol)

So for the sake of peace our language is filtered 1950's style, but it definitely ain't for the kids, because they will more then likely curse you under the table and they always have, i'd wager anyone of you swore more in your youth then you do as an adult. In my opinion it is as i suggested the peacekeeper, the little grey line of morality that is forever blurred between peoples and nations, just doing it's job keeping us civil to one another, and that's not a bad thing :)

[ZapperGhandi]

Because some mature people out there use light swear words in their every day communication.
Christianity and "American Family Values" aren't the only, nor the proper view on life.

Sorry if that offends you. And it doesn't matter what Turbine wants. There's a functioning profanity filter. If you don't like it, turn it on.
Any other argument is a bunch of politically correct semantics.

All I can say to most people in this thread is:
Grow up.

(This coming from a person who got banned from in-game chat once, because I swore while playing with my group of friends, with one random person joining in from the LFM getting offended.)

@TekkenDevil, Thank you for the first sane post in the thread.

What words you(plural) use matters less than how you use them. What matters is the meaning you are trying to communicate.

By blindly censoring words because they are "bad" you are not preventing harrassment, you have only managed to create an arbitrary rule that serves no purpose.

[notte.oscura]

Because some mature people out there use light swear words in their every day communication.
Christianity and "American Family Values" aren't the only, nor the proper view on life.

Sorry if that offends you. And it doesn't matter what Turbine wants. There's a functioning profanity filter. If you don't like it, turn it on.
Any other argument is a bunch of politically correct semantics.

All I can say to most people in this thread is:
Grow up.

(This coming from a person who got banned from in-game chat once, because I swore while playing with my group of friends, with one random person joining in from the LFM getting offended.)
This vision is completely unacceptable from my own point of view.

It is not a problem of values or way of life.
We are in the context of a multiplayer online game. I have the language filter off and I don't take any offense if I hear swearing. Not even if someone swears at me directly with insulting intent (I think I shouldn't have to explain this).
But fortunately I am able to understand that I am in a public context, and as such some other people *might* get offended for something like that. So I don't swear.

If you are in a *closed* context with your "friends" (such as a party with people you know well, maybe your guild, etc), you could swear all you feel like is appropriate.
If you are in a *public* context, you should think of other people too.

Maybe it was a problem of values in the end, in the sense that you don't know the value of respect of other people.
I guess who still has to grow up...

[Mathermune]

****

that is all.

No, wait, don't ban me bro!

[munificence]

Could someone explain why "con" is filtered? Anytime I tell people "con is not a dump stat" it looks like "**** is not a dump stat." I'm not cursing at anyone, and it makes me so mad I could **** with **** like ****ing ****.

I don't understand that one at all.

[TekkenDevil]

I heard somewhere con is an offensive word in some other language. Don't know if it's true or not. Either way the filter is ridiculous.

[phillymiket]

I heard somewhere con is an offensive word in some other language. Don't know if it's true or not. Either way the filter is ridiculous.

Con/conasse/connard (cohn)/(con-ASS)/(con-ARD)

This is often used as <edit - another word for donkey> in French, though it is also sometimes translated as a milder “idiot.”
.

[munificence]

Con/conasse/connard (cohn)/(con-ASS)/(con-ARD)

This is often used as <edit - another word for donkey> in French, though it is also sometimes translated as a milder “idiot.”
.

So the .1% of French people that play this game might get offended that a word in another language sounds a little bit like a mild expletive in their native tongue warrants filtering?

[Hambo]

So the .1% of French people that play this game might get offended that a word in another language sounds a little bit like a mild expletive in their native tongue warrants filtering?

Well, keep in mind that the French government tried to ban all languages but french on the internet in France in the 90's, and have mostly succeeded... :rolleyes:

[ZapperGhandi]

I don't live in the states but I have to ask if these type of over-reactions(my point of view) are common in USA?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tp5bjzAwdAc

Is it due to the same culture to fixate on the use of some words that leads to the "swearing is a bannable offence"?

Could someone living in USA please enlighten me on this topic, I just don't understand it.

[Synsuous]

I don't live in the states but I have to ask if these type of over-reactions(my point of view) are common in USA?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tp5bjzAwdAc

Is it due to the same culture to fixate on the use of some words that leads to the "swearing is a bannable offence"?

Could someone living in USA please enlighten me on this topic, I just don't understand it.

I live in the US. I belong to the middle class. In my environment, cursing is not the norm and is generally frowned upon. If you walk up to a stranger and say, 'How the f* are you?', you will get a strange look to say the least. Or if you are in any sizable mixed party (social event) and you pepper your dialog with curse words, you will get a distasteful look from some people and many people will chose not to engage with you.

That is with a group consisting mostly of strangers which is what I would consider DDO chat to be. Now, in a group of my close friends (depending, of course, upon the friends), I could curse to my hearts content and no one would even blink. But that is a select group of people, not the population as a whole. In my social structure (once again, white middle-class), cursing is considered less than desirable behavior.

[DocBenway]

I only found out last night when describing the helpless state and extra damage to the training dummy after it is beaten down for the first time in an instance of a guildship, that dummy is filtered. They laughed a bit then figured out what word the autocensor was butchering.

I even tried training idiot but that was filtered too. :p

It would be better with the type of autoreplace that Bethesda's old forums used to have. Funfun discussions about then vice president Impressive Appendage Cheney.

[Untitled]

Because pants are optional, manners are not! :)

[ZapperGhandi]

Because pants are optional, manners are not! :)

If I understand you correctly you include swear words or "profanity" into manners?
So for it to be percieved as bad manners it doesn't matter how you use said words - just using them on their own is bad enough?

So in the video example above, from the 911 operators point of view, all he heard was someone being rude to him and was then unable to continue with the call because he couldn't hear past the "rudeness" (even though those words were not directed at him)?

If that is so then it does sound rather limiting and in the 911 case dangerous. =/

[Synsuous]

If I understand you correctly you include swear words or "profanity" into manners?
So for it to be percieved as bad manners it doesn't matter how you use said words - just using them on their own is bad enough?

So in the video example above, from the 911 operators point of view, all he heard was someone being rude to him and was then unable to continue with the call because he couldn't hear past the "rudeness" (even though those words were not directed at him)?

If that is so then it does sound rather limiting and in the 911 case dangerous. =/

The 911 operator in question was probably severely reprimanded, if they didn't lose their job. That was simply unprofessional, given their job. However, in almost any other circumstance, if a person swears to or at you and you refuse to help/deal with them, that would be considered entirely acceptable.

[DDOisFree]

Ok so please explain the following -

I have an LFM up for a group im making. Someone in the game doesn't like something about my LFM and feels the need to PM me to start whining about it and descends to calling me a noob over my LFM (case today being that my LFM was still up after the party filled). Someone wouldn't stop PMing and being insultive towards me while I was doing the quest simply because the LFM was up, so I ended the conversation with 'Quit being a whiney *female dog*' and squelched the person.

Whahey, I end up being reported and warned for harrassment. I suppose its ok to run around in online game calling ramdom players noobs via PM, but oh noes, calling someone a female dog in response = harrassment!

[Phemt81]

since the chat filter is on from the start, a player HAS to take it of and fully realises what they are doing, so why do you make swearing bannable?

not arguing, just want an answer.

No reason.

This game and forum got so much rules that you can find at least one that contradict another. One day the moderator wake up on the wrong side of the bed, and you are out.

No coherence, no justifications, just like all other websites.

Happy hunting.

[Dysmetria]

No reason.

This game and forum got so much rules that you can find at least one that contradict another. One day the moderator wake up on the wrong side of the bed, and you are out.

No coherence, no justifications, just like all other websites.

Happy hunting.There is a perfectly good reason, and someone earlier in this thread quoted a dev giving it.

The filter is there as an added measure of protection against those that choose to break the rules.

The filter is not there to allow or encourage people to break those rules.

[susiedupfer]

That the use of expletives indicates a low intelligence and limited vocabulary.

[Missing_Minds]

Ok so please explain the following -

I have an LFM up for a group im making. Someone in the game doesn't like something about my LFM and feels the need to PM me to start whining about it and descends to calling me a noob over my LFM (case today being that my LFM was still up after the party filled). Someone wouldn't stop PMing and being insultive towards me while I was doing the quest simply because the LFM was up, so I ended the conversation with 'Quit being a whiney *female dog*' and squelched the person.

Whahey, I end up being reported and warned for harrassment. I suppose its ok to run around in online game calling ramdom players noobs via PM, but oh noes, calling someone a female dog in response = harrassment!

Simple. You were being harrased and did not feel the need to submit a harrassment ticket.
You did not /squelch the offender either.

Then when you broke the rules yourself, putting yourself on their level, they instantly reported you.

You allowed yourself to be trolled, flamed, and then roasted.
Next time, report, /squelch, and continue on with your fun. Do NOT drop to their level. Once you do, you are in the wrong as much as they are.

[Ague]

Profanity, personally, doesn't bother me, but I sure wish the squelch list was bigger. There's more ppl out there that annoy with spam, CAPS, and other nonsense other than swearing that should require an unlimited squelch list.

Oh, and swearing's bad, m'kay....

[Phemt81]

The filter is not there to allow or encourage people to break those rules.

Except YOU CAN'T break those rules if i am not arbitrarily deciding to turn it off...

Thanks for reading.

[Dimbo]

That the use of expletives indicates a low intelligence and limited vocabulary.

+1 Sir.

Also I would Add it is Simply Lazy Communication.

[Phemt81]

That the use of expletives indicates a low intelligence and limited vocabulary.

This, of course.

[Tshober]

+1 Sir.

Also I would Add it is Simply Lazy Communication.

And to the above I would add that it's simply not polite or appropriate.

Honestly, I don't understand how people can get upset about this. If you are a customer in someone's place of business (say a coffee shop, for example) and they put up a sign that asks to please not pee on the floor, and you proceed to pee on the floor, they have every right to kick you out and never allow you back in again. You are a customer in Turbine's place of business. The TOS that you agreed to makes that perfectly clear. It is no diffferent. The owner of a business can set whatever rules they want to keep you from driving away other customers. And that is the root reason profanity is not allowed. It is to keep you from driving away other customers. No smoking, appropriate attire, appropriate language, no solicitations, no peeing on the floor, all of these are perfectly legitimate rules that a business owner can put in place to keep you from driving away his desired customers. If you don't like his rules, you are welcome to not enter his place of business and try to find another place of business that allows your desired behaviors. Or you can suck it up, be an adult, and abide by his rules while you are in his place of business.

[Dysmetria]

Except YOU CAN'T break those rules if i am not arbitrarily deciding to turn it off...

Thanks for reading.I'm not quite sure what you are getting at...

Whether the profanity is garbled by their filter or their filter is off, anyone can report it. The dev will then review what was actually said and take the appropriate action.

Really the filter has nothing to do with it.

[OzmarDDO]

Swearing doesn't hurt you. It's not going to force you to throw out your morals. You aren't going to become an evil person if you hear someone swear. You'll probably forget about that person within the hour.

Second-hand swearing is like second-hand smoke. It is a corrosive influence. Ask any parent.

Really, is it so hard to restrain yourself and keep a civil tongue?

-Ozmar the Puritan :)

[Galeria]

I glanced at this thread and thought it said:

Turbine: why is swinging a banana offensive?

My mind went in several directions at once, both pro and con banana swinging...

[Synsuous]

Well, I guess it depends on a) what kind of a banana you are swinging, b) who you are swinging it at and c) if they find you attractive. :p

[Missing_Minds]

And is it actually a banana or a cursed plantain?

[Postumus]

I glanced at this thread and thought it said:

Turbine: why is swinging a banana offensive?



The answer is simple: this is why. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyx6JDQCslE&oref#t=2m11s)

[teh_meh]

Last night, 2 tweeners were smak talking each other in general about how the other's father must have raped the other when they were kids. They were swearing and being specific about sexual acts.

I despise reporting people but I reported this pair. Which squelches them as well.

How much do you want to bet that, at some point in the future, one of these twits comes to the forums and recycles the tired old forum topic "It's rude not to respond to my join request"

dear Twit,

I didn't accept or decline you cause I didn't get it because I squelched you 2 years ago when you were acting like a degenerate in the harbor.

[DDOisFree]

Its so funny reading how many people here hate seeing profanities used in a game where we have bastard swords and spell penetration, yet neither of those words can be written in chat as this is a ban able offense.

Probably more than half of the people who play this game and also including ones responding in this thread scream profanities through their microphones while they are in a group, and no one else in the group seems to bother in slightest bit, however typing the words out instead is totally unnaceptable!

And I have no idea what kind of a make belief fairy world so many people think they live in as well - swearing exists EVERYWHERE in real life, including your children's schools who seem to be the top reason behind your irrational defence of 'zomg swearing is just bad because teacher says so'. I don't understand how people who are so sensitive to seeing certain words simply written our can even stand playing an online game. Plus the last I checked, this game is rated teen which indicates a 12+ rating. This rating is given when games include, or may include the use of swear words, there is no rational justification to swearing being a ban able offense in a game with this rating.

[Synsuous]

Its so funny reading how many people here hate seeing profanities used in a game where we have bastard swords and spell penetration, yet neither of those words can be written in chat as this is a ban able offense.

Probably more than half of the people who play this game and also including ones responding in this thread scream profanities through their microphones while they are in a group, and no one else in the group seems to bother in slightest bit, however typing the words out instead is totally unnaceptable!

And I have no idea what kind of a make belief fairy world so many people think they live in as well - swearing exists EVERYWHERE in real life, including your children's schools who seem to be the top reason behind your irrational defence of 'zomg swearing is just bad because teacher says so'. I don't understand how people who are so sensitive to seeing certain words simply written our can even stand playing an online game. Plus the last I checked, this game is rated teen which indicates a 12+ rating. This rating is given when games include, or may include the use of swear words, there is no rational justification to swearing being a ban able offense in a game with this rating.

If I came into the shop where you flip burgers and said, 'Give me a f* cheeseburger, now, you POS!', you might not appreciate cursing as much as you seem to now.

[Phemt81]

I'm not quite sure what you are getting at...

Whether the profanity is garbled by their filter or their filter is off, anyone can report it. The dev will then review what was actually said and take the appropriate action.

Really the filter has nothing to do with it.

***** has joined the party.

You gonna report this?

If my point is still not clear i really don't know how to explain myself better in english, sorry.


Turbine: why is swinging a banana offensive?

Cause of this (sneak peak at turbine's office :D ) :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYBw_o_2nG0

[Dribble]

After playing Secret World lately (no language monitoring), I appreciate a "clean" environment. When you let people run free with cussing, it really creates a negative overall vibe in chat.

I don't let my employees swear at work, either. /shrug

[DDOisFree]

If I came into the shop where you flip burgers and said, 'Give me a f* cheeseburger, now, you POS!', you might not appreciate cursing as much as you seem to now.

I never said that I appreciate cursing, I strongly defend that people shouldnt be banned from a game that they have paid for if they do curse.

If you had already paid for a burger prior to cursing anyone, they wouldnt take your burger away from you, get the point?

The context of the words also has a huge bearing on their use, simply saying 'Oh F* I have to go' for example is not insultive in anyway to another person. If on the other hand I called you an ignorant chimp, this could be just as insultive as swearing, however those words are not not considered curse words.

[Synsuous]

Actually, I think if you had paid for the burger and then started cursing, they would probably kick you out. If they were nice, they *might* give you the money for your burger (if you hadn't already received it), but I wouldn't count on it.

If you called me an ignorant chimp, I might take offense at it *if* it had been a very bad day, but in most cases, I would simply shrug it off. Personally, you could curse to your hearts content and I would not care (although I might find it annoying). However, I have a co-worker who actually blanches if I say a curse word (outside of work, of course). And it is a male (in case some people think only women are offended by curse words).

[DDOisFree]

How is swearing while employed even comparable to anyway to swearing in a game? DDO isnt work, its a freaking game that people have bought and play. There are lots of games out there where swearing doesnt even get looked at by the mods, I know that AoC is such a game where people are allowed to use swear words as long as they arent harrassing other players.

People do understand the differrence between swearing and harrassment right, or does that need to be explained as well?


If they were nice, they *might* give you the money for your burger (if you hadn't already received it), but I wouldn't count on it.

Are you serious or thinking correctly? If you actually paid for a burger and you then didnt recieve that burger nor your money back regardless of what was done, that would be nothing but a case of theft by the restaurant. Very few places would actually kick customers out if they swear as the managment wouldnt want to lose any paying customer no matter what that customer might say to their staff.

[Synsuous]

Are you serious or thinking correctly? If you actually paid for a burger and you then didnt recieve that burger nor your money back regardless of what was done, that would be nothing but a case of theft by the restaurant. Very few places would actually kick customers out if they swear as the managment wouldnt want to lose any paying customer no matter what that customer might say to their staff.

Every restaurant I have ever been in has a sign stating 'We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone'. If you were cursing and they kicked you out without the burger you had paid for, would you have a -right- to get your money back? Of course you would! Would you get it at -that- particular moment? Maybe, maybe not. If you are cursing, you are most likely doing it loudly enough that others can hear you. Therefore, from the restaurant manager's point of view, you are causing a disturbance. Their first priority will be to get you outside the store. If you become reasonable at that point, they might say, 'Wait here, I will get your money'. If you don't, they will probably say, 'Leave now or I will call the cops'. And you are wrong about them caring about 1 customer. They are going to be much more concerned about the repeat business of all the other well-behaved customers who might not return because of your outburst. They are going to want to deal with you so all of those other people have a good time and return. They are not going to be concerned about the happiness and return business of someone who has already proven to be undesirable.

And saying this is only a game, doesn't excuse anyone's behavior. Even if you haven't spent a dime on the game, you want to enjoy it. Maybe you are a kid or have kids, or are easily offended or simply don't want to be around the kind of moron who has a vocabulary that consists mostly of curse words; Turbine has decided that you have that right and they will enforce it. Their game, their environment, their rules.

[BitkaCK2]

Hmmm I had a post after this one (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?p=4638565&highlight=bitkack2#post4638565) and now it's gone. Anyone know why/how? I had put my 2c comments in red in a quote... if someone deletes the post I quoted does that erase my reply? Just seems kinda weird... anyway thanks.

bitkaCK2

[Dribble]

How is swearing while employed even comparable to anyway to swearing in a game? DDO isnt work, its a freaking game that people have bought and play. There are lots of games out there where swearing doesnt even get looked at by the mods, I know that AoC is such a game where people are allowed to use swear words as long as they arent harrassing other players.

So go play the other game(s) if it's such a big issue for you. It's Turbine's rules. Just like it's my rules at work. You aren't playing in a vaccum with just yourself or your buddies, you are playing in a social environment.

[blkcat1028]

Because manners are a non optional social convention...

http://i1201.photobucket.com/albums/bb343/nazgul748/Sheldon_smile.png

[ZapperGhandi]

If I came into the shop where you flip burgers and said, 'Give me a f* cheeseburger, now, you POS!', you might not appreciate cursing as much as you seem to now.

No.

In your example you are verbally attacking him, aiming those words AT him and making a derogatory remark about his person.
That is a personal attack, nothing more nothing less.

Instead
If you had said "F* I'd love a cheesburger right now, could you make me one?"
Then you would still have used a "swear" word but without making a personal attack.

See the difference?
It doesn't matter what words you use, it is how you use them.

[blkcat1028]

No.

In your example you are verbally attacking him, aiming those words AT him and making a derogatory remark about his person.
That is a personal attack, nothing more nothing less.

Instead
If you had said "F* I'd love a cheesburger right now, could you make me one?"
Then you would still have used a "swear" word but without making a personal attack.

See the difference?
It doesn't matter what words you use, it is how you use them.

If you go back through this thread and read everyone's responses, you'll see that the majority of posters disagree with you on this.

Society mandates that certain words are not appropriate in certain settings. More importantly, in this case, Turbine has mandated the same thing.

When you log in, you agree to Turbines rules, live with it. It amazes me that this is such a sore subject for some. It's as if you can't effectively express yourself without resorting to inappropriate language... reminds me of grade school.

[Singular]

Second-hand swearing is like second-hand smoke. It is a corrosive influence. Ask any parent.

Really, is it so hard to restrain yourself and keep a civil tongue?

-Ozmar the Puritan :)

Oh, so people who hear swears will get cancer. My bad! I'll only swear with filters on then :)

Actually, I have never heard my father swear - not a single time. That's kind of amazing and I respect him for it. My mom, on the other hand...

[Hobgoblin]

Oh, so people who hear swears will get cancer. My bad! I'll only swear with filters on then :)

Actually, I have never heard my father swear - not a single time. That's kind of amazing and I respect him for it. My mom, on the other hand...

hey man - not really bothered, but there are a lot of cancer survivors that dont appreciate you making jokes about it.

kk? please?

[Musouka]

Oh, so people who hear swears will get cancer. My bad! I'll only swear with filters on then :)

Actually, I have never heard my father swear - not a single time. That's kind of amazing and I respect him for it. My mom, on the other hand...

Smoking doesn't cause cancer. It increases the risk of cancer, but is not the direct cause of cancer. Bad response to the analogy.

[Meetch1972]

... then you might expect something extra in your burger when you get it. Hence I wouldn't offend them until after it was handed over. :D

I live with the profanity filter on, only so I know when something I'm saying is not understood by others with the filter on.

"Just grabbing a CON buff and beating up the dummy with a <linked>+2 Bastard sword of Spell penetration, then picking up some disco balls on the way ..."

What the @#$%?

[Uska]

No.

In your example you are verbally attacking him, aiming those words AT him and making a derogatory remark about his person.
That is a personal attack, nothing more nothing less.

Instead
If you had said "F* I'd love a cheesburger right now, could you make me one?"
Then you would still have used a "swear" word but without making a personal attack.

See the difference?
It doesn't matter what words you use, it is how you use them.



When I was the manager of a burger joint I would have tossed you out in either case. It does matter what words you use sometimes to some people

[Uska]

Ok so please explain the following -

I have an LFM up for a group im making. Someone in the game doesn't like something about my LFM and feels the need to PM me to start whining about it and descends to calling me a noob over my LFM (case today being that my LFM was still up after the party filled). Someone wouldn't stop PMing and being insultive towards me while I was doing the quest simply because the LFM was up, so I ended the conversation with 'Quit being a whiney *female dog*' and squelched the person.

Whahey, I end up being reported and warned for harrassment. I suppose its ok to run around in online game calling ramdom players noobs via PM, but oh noes, calling someone a female dog in response = harrassment!


Two wrongs dont make a right you shouldnt have called them that and just reported them for harrassment.

[Uska]

Except YOU CAN'T break those rules if i am not arbitrarily deciding to turn it off...

Thanks for reading.

Read the EULA

[adamkatt]

I find word filters, silly and very 1980s.

Yeah, the word <insert word> is bad. In and of itself. It has "powers" mystical powers to harm people, just by its utterance.

I find swear word filters, like any other superstition. That somehow the word itself has the power, and not the context it is in.

I can berate, belittle, and be a HUGE jerk. Never saying a single swear word...

Oh noes the internet and our social system will collapse because I used a black listed word!

People who can't handle swear words have a small mind.

All that said, I just hope they blacklist a common dictionary word. Just for fun... Like uh... "ignorance". Just add it to the filter, and enforce it. Give out 3 day suspensions for anyone who says it.

It's just as silly as any other "word" filter. Ignorance is a dirty word...

Nice necro BTW.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to 350zguy again. D@mn*t!

[Alrik_Fassbauer]

When I was new to gaming forums, I couldn't understand why someone would be banned for swearing.

Everyone does it at one point.

At court, for example, people swear "by God", for example, while laying their hands on the Bible.

I needed quite some time until I understood that there are actually 2 types of swearing.

(English isn't my first language, by the way.)

[Beethoven]

Its so funny reading how many people here hate seeing profanities used in a game where we have bastard swords and spell penetration, yet neither of those words can be written in chat as this is a ban able offense.

Turbine probably assumes their average player has an actual intelligence and is capable making sense of individual words when strung together as phrases or sentences, whereas the chat is not capable of identifying context.

Lets be real, no one gets banned for using bastard sword or spell penetration, or even the occasional use of a swear word, far fetched and widely exaggerated examples not withstanding. It's usually only when a behavior reaches an extreme were the companies' other customers stop using the entertainment they paid for to report he offender that (s)he gets into trouble.


And I have no idea what kind of a make belief fairy world so many people think they live in as well - swearing exists EVERYWHERE in real life including your children's schools who seem to be the top reason behind your irrational defence

Violence exists everywhere, even (and including) at kid's schools. You are making a good argument that you should be allowed to swear at a burger joint, but people who feel bothered by it also should be allowed to beat you until you stop. Your problem seems to be that we, as a society, have outgrown this kind of vigilante justice and instead decided to have common rules and those who decide to not follow those rules are removed from our society (whether by being put in jail or evicted from whatever environment).

So, basically in this make belief fairy world (aka modern society) the principle is the same: a kid gets unruly at school to the extend other students report him/her, there may be consequences (including suspension). The same kid acts obnoxious on a game to the extreme other people take offense, there may be consequences as well (which can also include suspension).

[Expalphalog]

Are you serious or thinking correctly? If you actually paid for a burger and you then didnt recieve that burger nor your money back regardless of what was done, that would be nothing but a case of theft by the restaurant. Very few places would actually kick customers out if they swear as the managment wouldnt want to lose any paying customer no matter what that customer might say to their staff.

If you are disturbing the peace then you are actually the one in violation of the law, not the restaurant. If you acted in real life the way some of these kids act in game, you would spend a whole lot of nights in a holding cell and pay out more in fines than your income would support.

And you're wrong about the last part too. Most places absolutely do kick customers out. Might they lose a paying customer? Yes. But if they don't kick you out, they're going to lose twenty. Every person in the joint who has kids with them, who have objections to the behavior, or who simply want to patronize establishments with strong moral code, will leave and never return. I've bounced around as a retail manager for the better part of two decades now and not one single store I've worked at has not had a "You have the right to refuse service" clause. I rarely ever had to throw anyone out (and only had to call the police twice) but in every case, corporate backed my decision one hundred percent.


Look, I understand your frustration. I curse like a sailor. My wife tries not to, but I've been a bad influence there. :p I will even allow my children to swear at home because I agree that the entire concept of 'bad words' is antiquated and silly. But I have the discipline to control my tongue in public - we live in a civilization. The root word there is "civil" and if you're incapable of being civil towards another human being, then life will be very hard for you.

One day the social convention may change. In 50 or 100 years there may no longer be any taboo words in the English language, and on that day I will proudly let my ****'s flow around strangers, but until then, it ain't gonna kill me to be polite.

[gordgray]

There are whole famlilies who play DDO together. Turning off the filter is quite simple for an inquisitive youngster.

I am one of those people I turned mine off( I don't mind )my son was looking at my screen one day and a person was being very rude and did use every curse word that thy could b4 thy were blocked and kept it up for 15 min.

It was uncalled for he could of sent tells to the person who he was fighting with.

I don't see any thing bad if some one slips something in but to keep gonging on and on well that is why I think that terbine keeps it.

[gordgray]

That the use of expletives indicates a low intelligence and limited vocabulary.

I was told the same +1 rep

[cdbd3rd]

That the use of expletives indicates a low intelligence and limited vocabulary.

[Hesitant reply purely tongue-in-cheek.]

That excuse is used by folks who are just embarrassed that they don't know as many of the good 'power' words as the other guy. :p

I am tempted to link in a good old George Carlin routine, but him explaining the universal usage of the F-bomb wouldn't go over well with the Powers... /Sneaks a glance at SauronCube's Everwatchful Eye hovering overhead. :o

/Whispers, "It's easy to Google it for those so inclined." :cool:


Actually, on topic:
Profanity is situational. Sitting in your living room watching sports with your buddies = cuss word free-for-all.
Sitting in a restaurant where other families are trying to enjoy their evening out = not so much so.
Same for in game. With yur buddies, do as ya please. In a mixed group, respect the others' wish to enjoy their time.

[Chai]

For all the rules lawyers in attendance today...

Turbine cant provide a venue that supports and encourages harassment. Verbal harassment laws in the US are not strictly defined as one specific action, but more defined by someone asking another person to refrain from doing something that offends them, and that person refusing to do so, and continuing. At that point it can be construed as harassment legally.

So what does Turbine (and most other MMO companies) do about it? They make it part of their policy to enforce against any of the common reasons people will get offended - and foul language is one of those reasons.

From a personal standpoint it seems like it should fall under the category of "grow a thicker skin" before you get on the internet and start posting in forums or playing multi-player games. As a business decision however, its a smart decision to curtail as many of these situations as possible before they get blown out of proportion.

One issue that arises from this is that people will use the rule as a retaliation tactic. If someone gets told off with swearing included, that can be reported out of spite and the company will usually act on it according to their policies.

[myliftkk]

IMO Americans are over sensitive to all things involving language while being often willfully blind to context. I traveled in Eastern Europe shortly after Communism fell and it was completely normal to hear gangster rap playing out of shops in their downtown shopping districts, no one the least bit offended. Many of my non-American friends are utterly perplexed by the puritanical fits we get ourselves in over stuff like this.

I spent my college years in a very physical union shop job where swearing wouldn't get you fired, but it sure did a lot to release the tension that built up during the shift between everyone. Often, it was the most effective way to get the point across to stop someone from doing something that had clearly negative consequences on the shift. That was a freedom that's clearly missed in the corporate world. But, context was king, and everyone was working towards the same goal.

Now, living in the large scale corporate world for over a decade I can say I'd take the company full of swearing fighters over the back-stabbing double-dealing of corporate rogues, er co-workers/managers/execs, any day of the week. Even most fighters know to clean their language up in the right context, but once a corporate rogue, always a corporate rogue, and if you want to stay ahead of them, INT ain't a dump stat. Public politeness is often a crude mask papering over much more nefarious behavior.

DDO for the most part is a goal-focused experience, and on EE or E, an intense one at that. If someone swears in pursuit of that goal, I've got no issue with it, provided it's not harassment, which is clearly not the same and should be reported irrespective of the language particulars. If someone's swearing just to be swearing, it's not much different than reading/typing t.s. elliot over the comms, which is clearly not to point of why we're in DDO in the first place (so head on over to chat roulette), but is annoying nonetheless. I'd probably never report a pug leader over it, since I joined the group in the first place, and I could always just bow out. It's not really any different from deciding to play or not play in a pick-up game on a public basketball court my tax dollars already paid for depending on who's on the court. I don't demand that certain people leave first, or that they contort themselves to entirely my expected cultural experience. If they're so distracting from the goal I don't wish to play with them, I just choose not to, and our lives proceed perfectly fine without much intersection.

I've generally no interest in policing people's language. Let the ex-Soviets do that, which they seem to be quite good at lately, whether it's in service of the motherland, or to save the children.

[Mathermune]

Classic free speech vs. individual rights debate.

Swearing should be allowed. Abuse of other players, swearing or no, shouldn't be.

It's a game at the end of the day.

Boobs, psychological torture (phantasmal killer) murder, assault, thievery, assassination, bastard swords, religious intolerance and genocide is all tolerated and indeed rewarded with loot if you live your lives by the rules of this game. Just don't swear while you sally forth against that evil, bastard sword wielding monster.

As the philosopher Broflovski once said. "Horrific, deplorable violence is okay, as long as people don't say any naughty words!"

Tidy lasses and pints up the wazoo, here i come!

[Dysmetria]

Classic free speech vs. individual rights debate.

Swearing should be allowed. Abuse of other players, swearing or no, shouldn't be.

It's a game at the end of the day.It is a game, not real life, therefore there is no freedom of speech. Eberron doesn't have a constitution, but DDO does have a EULA. Our individual rights are what Turbine says they are, and we agreed to play by their rules and limitations.

[Mathermune]

It is a game, not real life, therefore there is no freedom of speech. Eberron doesn't have a constitution, but DDO does have a EULA. Our individual rights are what Turbine says they are, and we agreed to play by their rules and limitations.

Does not change my opinion that swearing should be allowed, I comply but disagree. Unless it's in the EULA that I'm not allowed to disagree with things either?

Hey! Maybe they should change the EULA to make complaining about bugs against the EULA too. Then they'd have a perfectly working game and as an added benefit no-one would feel the need to swear when describing their game experience.

[Beethoven]

IMO Americans are over sensitive to all things involving language while being often willfully blind to context. I traveled in Eastern Europe shortly after Communism fell and it was completely normal to hear gangster rap playing out of shops in their downtown shopping districts, no one the least bit offended.

Did you just travel through or actually spend some time there? I am asking because I got a vastly different impression from Eastern Europe when I was there; people didn't run around swearing like sailors, but were actually very polite, respectful and extremely considerate around children.

I was almost wondering when someone will try turn the thread into an us vs them, but it really has nothing to do with it. Heated discussions like these (really regardless the topic) is more an internet thing were people tend to express themselves more freely publicly and around strangers than they usually would. It has nothing to do with Communism either. Most places in the Western world will have the same standards were a behavior (or language) perfectly fine in a shop full of mechanics, wouldn't be considered acceptable at a family park.


Classic free speech vs. individual rights debate.

Free speech was never meant to restrict (other) individual rights. You can disagree with the policy and it's fine, but at the end of the day it boils down to a very simple principle: You are going to someone elses home (Turbine's property). The person asks you to be mindful of your language since there are also children around. Now there are some people calling the person (Turbine) out as being communist and infringing upon their first amendments right? You'd come to my house and keep doing stuff even after I specifically asked you not to, I'd also throw you out. And I am neither American or Communist.

[Synsuous]

Boobs, psychological torture....



Boobs? This game has boobs? I am -so- leaving! :p

[Mathermune]

Boobs? This game has boobs? I am -so- leaving! :p

In retrospect perhaps a mistake leading off with that one?

[myliftkk]

Did you just travel through or actually spend some time there? I am asking because I got a vastly different impression from Eastern Europe when I was there; people didn't run around swearing like sailors, but were actually very polite, respectful and extremely considerate around children.

I was almost wondering when someone will try turn the thread into an us vs them, but it really has nothing to do with it. Heated discussions like these (really regardless the topic) is more an internet thing were people tend to express themselves more freely publicly and around strangers than they usually would. It has nothing to do with Communism either. Most places in the Western world will have the same standards were a behavior (or language) perfectly fine in a shop full of mechanics, wouldn't be considered acceptable at a family park.



Free speech was never meant to restrict (other) individual rights. You can disagree with the policy and it's fine, but at the end of the day it boils down to a very simple principle: You are going to someone elses home (Turbine's property). The person asks you to be mindful of your language since there are also children around. Now there are some people calling the person (Turbine) out as being communist and infringing upon their first amendments right? You'd come to my house and keep doing stuff even after I specifically asked you not to, I'd also throw you out. And I am neither American or Communist.
Spent real time, but not an inordinately huge amount, but also have a large number of personal friends from overseas. I didn't infer they cursed in English, though quite of few of my generation, early 20s at the time, did teach me a number of the local euphemisms they had for various curse words of our language. My point was that the English language was just that, English, and when removed from the context of the US, was pretty much regarded as just words without the weight. Lyrics that if heard blasting from a radio over here at the time would have earned distasteful looks had no emotive effect on them. Of course, people use them here exactly because they are emotively charged, but a lot of that power is because people erect barriers around them that has the net effect of keeping them charged.

I've no real issue with Turbine's ToS, they're free to issue whatever rules they please. I won't, nor does the ToS require me, conversely to stand like a tennis line judge watching for words to hit in or out. I'm there to play the game only, and so long as the verbal/typed behavior does not convey a clear nefarious agenda, I let it be.

On the flip side of the customer experience, not all businesses have the luxury of just shoving off customers they might not personally invite over to dinner (most businesses wouldn't survive their birth if that was a requirement for service). With social media tools, a motivated, savvy, and irate customer can punch a good-sized hole in a lot of small businesses. The goal always is to keep most, if not all customers happy, regardless of the TOS you have posted on the wall.

[Beethoven]

.... Lyrics that if heard blasting from a radio over here at the time would have earned distasteful looks had no emotive effect on them. Of course, people use them here exactly because they are emotively charged,...

I get what you are saying, it sort of goes on a tangent though and into the bit were cursing in a language which isn't your first feels less real. Also, there is the thing to consider were ESL speakers often only know enough English to get some of it, but are not entrenched in the language (and/or culture) deep enough to understand the implications.

For instance, back in the day when Frank Zappa's Bobby Brown came out it became fairly popular with the youths in Austria and lots of kids starting singing it. For the most part they knew enough English to get quite some of it, but lacked an understanding of the language to really get the implications (for those not familiar with Bobby Brown here is a link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vthh4Gm81n4)).

Also, to have said: I have no personal problem with cursing. It's me and a bunch of friends being social and play while having a beer (or many) adult content language happens. The same time I am not going to act all insulted if someone joins a group and asks for us/me to tone it down because he has his speakers on and his kids are in the same room. Similarly, I like to err on the side of caution and restrain myself when with people I don't know (pugs, general chat, etc.) and I don't really think a little bit consideration in how we act so we all can have fun playing a game together is too much to ask.

[Synsuous]

In retrospect perhaps a mistake leading off with that one?

No, you should always be up front with your boobs. :p

[Cetus]

Its too bad that we live in such a PC world today that people playing a video game can be punished for using language that is deemed offensive by others. What a terrible knee jerk society.

If you're offended by foul language, either bring this to the persons attention and/or use your profanity filter and/or adjust your future grouping decisions. Be your own person for once and handle it like an individual.

If you try to penalize folks by banning their leisure time in this video game just for speaking freely, then you aren't any better and I hope you stay offended.

[Singular]

hey man - not really bothered, but there are a lot of cancer survivors that dont appreciate you making jokes about it.

kk? please?

Hey, very sorry. I'm one of them.

[Singular]

Smoking doesn't cause cancer. It increases the risk of cancer, but is not the direct cause of cancer. Bad response to the analogy.

You're a bit of a literalist, hey?

[Singular]

[Hesitant reply purely tongue-in-cheek.]

That excuse is used by folks who are just embarrassed that they don't know as many of the good 'power' words as the other guy. :p

I am tempted to link in a good old George Carlin routine, but him explaining the universal usage of the F-bomb wouldn't go over well with the Powers... /Sneaks a glance at SauronCube's Everwatchful Eye hovering overhead. :o

/Whispers, "It's easy to Google it for those so inclined." :cool:


Actually, on topic:
Profanity is situational. Sitting in your living room watching sports with your buddies = cuss word free-for-all.
Sitting in a restaurant where other families are trying to enjoy their evening out = not so much so.
Same for in game. With yur buddies, do as ya please. In a mixed group, respect the others' wish to enjoy their time.

What I find fascinating about the discussion is the power that words have over other's biologies because of their encultured understanding of language.

[Galeria]

It all comes back to: Turbine is a business.

To create an environment that encourages the maximum number of people to play, swearing is officially not allowed.

People still swear, quite colorfully and often. Loudly, over their microphones and in-game chat. While it is against the rules, it's certainly not enforced very often.

Knowing it is against the rules, you take your chances if you like to group with random unknown people and swear. Plenty of people do it all the time. Then they make someone mad and get their hand slapped.

It's pretty much the same as anywhere else- I can't think of many places that encourage foul language. I can't think of any customer-facing businesses (movies, restaurants, stores) where foul language is tolerated from employees or patrons. It's just bad business.

Which again, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I've heard people swearing just about everywhere. People don't care if they aren't supposed to. But the fact is that if you are asked to leave because of it, that is well within the rights of any establishment to do so.

If you can't stand the idea of playing without swearing, then just play with people you know. Or tell people upfront about it so they can opt out of the group if it offends them. Then swear til you are blue in the face. No one will ban you. Pretty simple.

[Kiel]

It can go farther than just cursing you can get "marks" for basically calling anyone names involving complexion, body weight, job status etc even if cursing isnt involved.You have to go about it like most on the forums in a very roundabout im smarter than you kinda way.

Prolly more those are just the marks ive been charged with lol. Ugh i almost posted who gave me the marks but i can get marked for those too /whew

[DnD3]

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=3875529&postcount=66

Your answer.

+1, I just love it when there's one or two useful posts in a thread, everyone read said posts, yet for some reason they basically keep repeating the same thing they already read in a previous post in a different way hehe.

[Uma-Quixote]

It's pretty simple......

Does indiscriminate swearing ABSOLUTELY improve everyone's gaming environment?

Answer: No



Does indiscriminate swearing POTENTIALLY damage someone's gaming environment?

Answer: Yes

That is sufficient in our PC, non-offensive, litigiously paranoid business culture to ensure that a company like Turbine will always attempt to go the safest route.


Which is why in our guild we have a ventrillo account where we can say whatever we ******* well like.

[Alrik_Fassbauer]

That the use of expletives indicates a low intelligence and limited vocabulary.

It can be used to create in others the view of that.

According to the saying : "It is easier for a wise man to play a stupid person than vice versa."

[Loriac]

Its Turbine's game, and if they want to enforce a no swearing policy, thats up to them and whilst I'm playing the game I'm ok with conforming to the rules set.

However, from a purely personal perspective, I do see this type of thing as a very nasty and pernicious PC way of trying to control other peoples' thought.

For those in this thread saying that intelligent people swear less, thats simply untrue. You many want to believe it, but it doesn't make it so. Generally speaking, in our society, the most fearful people are the ones that watch what they say. This ranges from corporate workplaces to social gatherings in 'polite' company. I suspect that this is where the idea that the US is less tolerant of swearing comes from; PC was pretty much invented there, along with the idea that causing 'offence' is somehow a terrible thing.

Part of the issue is that children do play the game (though I'm not sure how allowable that is, based on the fact that in a lot of countries DDO would have a minimum age classification as I understand it). Again, speaking purely personally, I prefer not to group with children in game, just as I never seek out their company in real life. Because we never know who is playing a given character however, the ban on swearing is understandable. My preference would be a game that wasn't open to children at all, however thats not DDO and so some rules unfortunately have to be in place to reflect the reality of the situation.

[Expalphalog]

Its too bad that we live in such a PC world today that people playing a video game can be punished for using language that is deemed offensive by others. What a terrible knee jerk society.

If you're offended by foul language, either bring this to the persons attention and/or use your profanity filter and/or adjust your future grouping decisions. Be your own person for once and handle it like an individual.


How is this "knee jerk?" How is this related to our "PC world today?" In the not too distant past, you could be arrested for cursing, spitting, or otherwise being rude in public. Things are more open today, not less.

And exactly how is abiding by the rules and regulations that we all individually agreed to not "being your own person?" I'm quite curious as to how you can possibly justify this position.

[Cetus]

How is this "knee jerk?" How is this related to our "PC world today?" In the not too distant past, you could be arrested for cursing, spitting, or otherwise being rude in public. Things are more open today, not less.

And exactly how is abiding by the rules and regulations that we all individually agreed to not "being your own person?" I'm quite curious as to how you can possibly justify this position.

You don't find a person immediately smashing the report button at the sound of profanity a knee-jerk reaction? I've seen several people get BANNED. That is, relieved of their access to a dumb GAME because they used language that someone else viewed as offensive. Thats knee-jerk, and I've seen it.

You made a point about the harsh ramifications of cursing in the past, yet I do not see how this relates to my statement. You can extend that logic to any unjust or overly cruel punishment for things in the past, which today are more tolerated. And does that, in turn, mean that we should be hesitant to perform these very actions today just because they were less accepted in the past?

Too many people in society are being torn down for OFFENDING other people. Guess what, you have the right to be offended. First amendment allows us to be verbal pricks if we choose to be, its your decision whether or not you want to put up with it. Nobody is force-feeding it into your eardrums.

Use Rush Limbaugh as an example of a recent case where a speaker said something "offensive" and these selfish pricks almost caused him to lose his job if he didn't APOLOGIZE for offending. Now, I am NOT a fan of Rush, but I can never condone someone getting FIRED for speaking their mind. Jon Lovitz was another example of an entertainer that made a rape joke while doing a gig at a comedy venue, and people blew that up because it was OFFENSIVE.

Thats the PC world I'm talking about, and its absolutely disgusting how eager we are to just throw our first amendment right out the window. This game is no different, people should not be blatantly BANNED for using language and speaking their minds.

[Zachski]

You are not guaranteed Freedom of Speech on the internet, especially in a video game. The internet is not the USA.

Furthermore, freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from the consequences of speech. The consequences of abusing speech in a video game and potentially driving away customers is a forced vacation from the game.

Too many times I have seen people cry about their freedom of speech being violated by someone else exercising their own freedom of speech, or in cases where freedom of speech does not actually apply (say, on a forum or an MMO)

Often times, these people are saying abusive, hateful things, then end up crying "Freedom of Speech" when they get called out on it.

And I hate to say it, but of all the business practices out there, maintaining a low-swearing environment in a service they offer is a reasonable, non-corrupt one. When their services are being abused, then they take their services away from the one abusing them. That's reality.

(That being said, I also agree that people have the right to be offended. However, that doesn't really apply here.)

[Expalphalog]

You made a point about the harsh ramifications of cursing in the past, yet I do not see how this relates to my statement. You can extend that logic to any unjust or overly cruel punishment for things in the past, which today are more tolerated. And does that, in turn, mean that we should be hesitant to perform these very actions today just because they were less accepted in the past?

You're the one who implied that our "PC world today" was to blame. I proved through evidence that it was not to blame. Any other extrapolation of the data I provided is just straw man. I made no claim other than 'being offended by cursing is not a product of modern society.'

As for knee-jerk reactions - Yes, some people do overreact. Some people will also claim that they 'did nothing wrong' or will underplay their own actions when faced with the consequences of those actions. Personally, I have never seen anyone banned for a casual or 'exciteable utterance' (to use the words of the Supreme Court) but I have seen them banned for blatant harassment. I'm not saying that it doesn't happen. I've never seen a kangaroo being born either, but clearly it happens all the time. I'm just saying that it isn't a wide-spread enough problem to condemn an entire society for it.

Lastly, First Amendment. Ahh, the good ol' First Amendment. People love to bring that one up in all sorts of conversations. But as much as people like to bring it up, very few seem to have actually read it:


Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.


Turbine is not Congress; therefore the First Amendment has no bearing here. Freedom of Speech, glorious as it is, only applies to the government. There are no laws about private citizens or enterprises prohibiting speech. Just as you have the freedom to curse, swear, and threaten; Turbine has the freedom to ban any account they choose.



Now, all that said, I am a huge proponent of anti-censorship. I believe the FCC should not be allowed to regulate content, Huck Finn has a character with an unfortunate name and always will, and the only 'bad' word is one which does not convey the intended meaning. And one day, should I choose to run an MMO (which I won't), the only banned words will be ones that the user personally adds to a client-side list. But I'm also a proponent of discipline and fair play, and a part of that is playing by the rules we were given and agreed to abide by.

[Dysmetria]

You are not guaranteed Freedom of Speech on the internet, especially in a video game. The internet is not the USA.Even were this not a video game, no nation, including the USA, grants it's citizens an absolute freedom of speech. Most have laws regarding obscenity, libel, slander, inciting crime, copyright infringement, etc.

[Frotz]

If there is no such thing as unacceptable behavior, then Turbine's behavior is acceptable. :)

[Cetus]

You're the one who implied that our "PC world today" was to blame. I proved through evidence that it was not to blame. Any other extrapolation of the data I provided is just straw man. I made no claim other than 'being offended by cursing is not a product of modern society.'

As for knee-jerk reactions - Yes, some people do overreact. Some people will also claim that they 'did nothing wrong' or will underplay their own actions when faced with the consequences of those actions. Personally, I have never seen anyone banned for a casual or 'exciteable utterance' (to use the words of the Supreme Court) but I have seen them banned for blatant harassment. I'm not saying that it doesn't happen. I've never seen a kangaroo being born either, but clearly it happens all the time. I'm just saying that it isn't a wide-spread enough problem to condemn an entire society for it.

Lastly, First Amendment. Ahh, the good ol' First Amendment. People love to bring that one up in all sorts of conversations. But as much as people like to bring it up, very few seem to have actually read it:




Turbine is not Congress; therefore the First Amendment has no bearing here. Freedom of Speech, glorious as it is, only applies to the government. There are no laws about private citizens or enterprises prohibiting speech. Just as you have the freedom to curse, swear, and threaten; Turbine has the freedom to ban any account they choose.



Now, all that said, I am a huge proponent of anti-censorship. I believe the FCC should not be allowed to regulate content, Huck Finn has a character with an unfortunate name and always will, and the only 'bad' word is one which does not convey the intended meaning. And one day, should I choose to run an MMO (which I won't), the only banned words will be ones that the user personally adds to a client-side list. But I'm also a proponent of discipline and fair play, and a part of that is playing by the rules we were given and agreed to abide by.

You provided data? You gave me a statement to the effect of how the past was more restrictive. I'm a biochemist, I can take a picture of a regular days work and I'll show you what data looks like.

However, if you are anti-censorship and think the FCC stinks then we are in agreement. I simply stated my opinion on offense-driven bannings, and am of the opinion that we are an incredibly knee-jerk PC society, with two recent examples provided to support that position. Spelling out a part of the first amendment for me proved nothing, since the context in which I mentioned it was in SOCIETY (re-read my post for clarification), where it IS applicable. Then, I extended those very same sentiments to an analogous situation in this game. I don't see any contradictions, errors, or fallacies in what I wrote.

In other words, I understand Turbine's position. I just don't agree with it.

[Dysmetria]

In other words, I understand Turbine's position. I just don't agree with it.How do you play the game without agreeing to the EULA?

[noinfo]

How do you play the game without agreeing to the EULA?

Its quite easy really, you are not asked to agree with it but to agree to abide by it. Two very very different things.

[Dysmetria]

Its quite easy really, you are not asked to agree with it but to agree to abide by it. Two very very different things.EULA doesn't stand for End User Licence Abidement...


The Agreement is a legal agreement between the individual end user customer (“you”) and Turbine, setting forth the terms and conditions under which Turbine is willing to permit you to remotely access the Server and play the Game.

[noinfo]

EULA doesn't stand for End User Licence Abidement...

Your point?

You AGREE to ABIDE by it, you do NOT have to agree with it at all.

Edit for clarity:

By installing or using the Game Client, you agree to be bound by the terms of this Agreement. (Notice that you do NOT have to agree with it but abide by those terms.)

[Cetus]

How do you play the game without agreeing to the EULA?

Easy, I scroll past the wall of text and hit the agree button.

[Shmuel]

[I][COLOR="Lime"]
I am tempted to link in a good old George Carlin routine, but him explaining the universal usage of the F-bomb wouldn't go over well with the Powers...


No it wouldn't. I had such a link in my now deleted post in this thread (which also admittedly had a short paragraph including all of Mr. Carlin's 7 words in it and a link to a musical sequence from the south park movie). And yes, something happened and something else too. I congratulated someone for being such a good soldier.

now without using profanity to make my point:

\its not that complicated. censorship is bad, no matter who does it. its always bad.

as far as the EULA, i look at it like any other long wall of text someone has me sign in order to "voluntarily" restrict my rights so I can do something, whether that be a game, a government agency, something at my workplace, or whatever. I sign it, and then i forget it even existed and live my life as though it did not.

I'll sign anything. I don't respect that authority so who cares. What I do or don't do is in accordance with my ethics, which I have thought carefully about. Someone else's rules are irrelevant to that.

and yeah, censorship is bad. if i want to yell fire in a crowded theater, its my business. (i also think it may be your business to beat the feces out of me afterwards for doing so, but no official agency's right to)

now if someone got killed in a stampede as a result, perhaps I should be held accountable for that. just like when TV anchors tell their audiences that abortion is murder and murderers deserve to die and then some fanatic goes and starts killing doctors, the TV anchor is held accountable (oh wait, nm).

[Synsuous]

Your point?

You AGREE to ABIDE by it, you do NOT have to agree with it at all.

Edit for clarity:

By installing or using the Game Client, you agree to be bound by the terms of this Agreement. (Notice that you do NOT have to agree with it but abide by those terms.)

Precisely. There are many things in life I don't agree with. That doesn't mean that I don't abide by them. No Pants Tuesday sounds like a lot of fun, but I know better than to show up to work for it. :p

[Quetzacoala]

There are hundreds of ways to insult a person in every aspect of their life without ever having to resort to swear words, oftentimes causing even more hurt in the process of doing so; the only reason swear words are considered to be extremely bad is because people believe them to be worse than other insults.

In fact, oftentimes the more "ordinary" insults cause far more offense than swear words, depending on how the "ordinary" insults and the swear words are used.

[arkonas]

i don't see any issue if your being very rude to someone or send them a hate tell in a game. yes it should be banned.I dont see how many of you can argue turbine at all on this. There was an agreement in the beginning most of you don't read and just click on. After that you choose to act however way you want and think its ok?

It all comes down to are you offending others by your actions? you have to understand not everyone wants to hear our smack talk, our dirty jokes or just cussing in general. They came on to play a game. what i find funny is that so many people get very aggressive in this game as well. You can't justify that action by any means. not sure why its so hard to be respectful of others in this game. When i group with my friends, sure we have a great time just saying whatever we want. When another joins we tone it down. Sure if they don't like it they can squelch us, leave group, ignore it, report. Its their choice.

As for the low intelligence just by swearing? I don't think so. Just because you clean up the swear words and change it around to be "clean" your just as bad as the people who belittle anyone else. Its still negative behavior no matter how you use it clean or not. So a mechanic or a trucker who swears often is dumb? I think its just funny how people think so little not knowing anything. I'm sorry i dont know cars or huge trucks. I would never call either of them stupid because they swear. that is just being ignorant.

Anyways, point is you need to be respectful of others while you play the game. if someone messages you saying something bad about your lfm. Don't send them a tell calling them names. what your doing there is a personal attack.

[arkonas]

There are hundreds of ways to insult a person in every aspect of their life without ever having to resort to swear words, oftentimes causing even more hurt in the process of doing so; the only reason swear words are considered to be extremely bad is because people believe them to be worse than other insults.

In fact, oftentimes the more "ordinary" insults cause far more offense than swear words, depending on how the "ordinary" insults and the swear words are used.

exactly. people think just because they don't swear at you their better then you. They think their way of belittling someone is the perfect way to do it. they don't look like their savages. It doesnt matter how you do it. Whether your cussing or "being smart" way of doing it. its still personal attacks. Im all for smack talk and jokes. I'm not here to ruin another person's gaming experience.