Crafting Changes in Update 10.1

[KyrzaBladedancer]

There is a large and growing gulf between new casual players and veteran power gamers. Just read the forums - it's full of stories of people getting turned down for groups because they looked too weak on MyDDO. Or how they were let in but treated badly after. If you are running anything other than a (boring to me) cookie cutter build, you have to have the gear to make up for it or you are out of luck. Certainly not always, but a few bad experiences make a much larger impression in the human mind than many neutral ones.

It is not a Lack of gear that tends to make me cringe as someone who leads Epics and High end Raids often, It is the lack of gear cohesion, People wearing 3 strength item, people who have no GFL or HF with only 200 hp, people who have, quite literally, **** weapons in their hands. Every time, not almost every, EVERY time I don't screen for a ToD or an Epic, I get people that I have to carry (sometimes in my backpack) through the quest. All most of us veterans and power gamers are asking for is to show us the same common courtesy we extend to you. Come prepared! If you don't know what you need or what a good point to be at gear or stat wise, ask! Most of us won't bite your nuts off, in fact some will go beyond what you ask and maybe send you a DR breaker for Shroud or ToD that we don't need anymore.

DDO is not like other games where once the top people on the server get all the gear they need out of a lower tier raid they stop doing it, there is always a group doing nearly every raid in the game with most people only looking for a single item and are happy to pass you an item that is **** to us but a significant upgrade for you. Don't try and join a ToD or an Epic with your fresh of the boat 20, grab some Shrouds, a few Reavers, some VoD and maybe a Hound or 2. Pick up some Dragontouched out of Reavers Refuge. THEN go and join a ToD to try and get your rings and upgrade them. Gearing a new character is a process, one that most people who try and join the highest end content try and bypass and it bites them in the butt.

And if you think it is just the Casual people getting declined from group, my cleric was declined yesterday from a eDQ2 because I was not "specced for healing or DPS." She is geared Almost completely in Epic and Abbot/ToD gear. Asking nicely why you got declined will get you helpful answers nearly every time, Don't respond to these replies with anything but courtesy and thanks. Doing this puts you in a higher standing with them and next time you apply to them send them a tell first saying hey I took your suggestions and made some changes they will be much more likely to accept you the second time around.

wow longer than I expected so /end wall o text

/EDIT

Crafting should be a viable way to fill in holes in equipment, whether weapons or jewelry, and while not there yet It does look like that is what they are trying to do with it, even though it doesn't seem like it right now.

[Tirisha]

Casual gamers are more than welcome. A great portion of our efforts have been with them in mind. Their voice is typically not heard on these forums and I think that's one of the reasons the veteran players can get so upset when we do something that is directed towards casual players. We often see posts to the effect of "but we're ALL asking for x and then you go ahead and do y - you're not listening". We care equally about both categories of players and wouldn't be here otherwise.

Crafting was intended to be one of the ways that non-raiders (note that this doesn't just mean 'casual') could acquire very good gear over time. In my opinion, gear is the weakest area of the game right now. I don't believe players should be forced to raid in order to be able to advance in the game.

This^ Turbine has made a number of unpopular *to vets* changes to cater to the casual players.

They removed the traditional dice from tool tip description and replaced it with a range of numbers, for casual players who don't understand dice.

They made Trolls Vulnerable to Fire and Acid so newer players would know that fire and acid stop troll regeneration.

They added a jet stream to Coal Chamber, for the casual player who might fall down.

They removed the locked doors blocking the shrines in Tear.

post U9 epics are laughable too vets compared to pre U9 and much less intimidating to casual players.

Most content they release is lower than cap content which caters to casual players.

In fact from a veteran players perspective *if you consider 2 years vet status* they very much cater to casual players in general.

[PsiGuy]

From my perspective there is NO reason for unbound shards. If you want them to be there (and I really don't see the need) then make them something that drops. Either as an item that can combine with a shard to "unbind" it OR as a completed unbound shard. Sure those unbound shards of perform +5 are going to be vendor trash, then again so are the gloves and rings right?

That unbound shard of Holy burst though... well that is something I can either use myself or sell for some good coin, much like the Ring of Spell Storing or Bloodstone is.


^^ This, minus the fact I do see the point to unbound shards.

Make em drop, the really good ones at the same rate as portable holes, +1 tomes, (+2 for the bursts), and the like.

The reason the economy got a good soaking, is that the power gamers saw a way to make money off of selling to desperate noobs. Take that away, put severe limits on unbound crafting, but let every unbound shard drop. Making it prohibitively expensive for all players is not the answer. Adding some randomness as well as opportunity for all is.

[bigolbear]

*Applause* Thank you!

btw, as a casual gamer, I was all up and excited because I could craft a decent lvl 6 rapier without paying up the nose for it in the AH. Holy Burst, Pure Good, Greater Banes? Hadn't even crossed my mind...

What this person said.

You see the 'casual gamer' doesnt raid, doesnt play around in amrath much and certainly doesnt do epics unless they reach a point of desperation and want 20 tokens so they can 'play through the game again'.

When your playing at that level you simply dont need +5 silver holy banes and whatnot.

My suggestions to make the game more casual player friendly:

Lower the dificulty on recipies for the folowing:
Heavy fort items.
hit point items.
stat point items.
skill point items.

And to get casual players into raids, epics etc and eventualy lead casual players to non casual players:
allow making boss beaters to be reasonably easy: a +1 holy silver weapon is quite easy to make and this is good enough.

To give some 'end game' use to the crafting system allow the manufacture of epic quality items - but make these recipies require things like epic tokens, LDS, soul gems etc. Items that are powerful enough to compare to epic items absolutely should require dificult to obtain materials. There is also a good option to allow 'off slot items' at increased cost such as 'gloves of wisdom +6' and to allow multiple pre and postfixes again at masively increased dificulty to mimic the abilitys we find on epic items.

[GeneralDiomedes]

So please make Cantith Crafting, even of the very best shards, accessible to casual players. Don't require items that come from a single adventure pack, or require favor not reasonably attainable through free packs. People will buy the packs, and be happy to do so, if the game is fun and they feel welcome.



I'm a casual player, but I'm a VIP .. surely you mean F2P?

[Cyr]

Casual gamers are more than welcome. A great portion of our efforts have been with them in mind. Their voice is typically not heard on these forums and I think that's one of the reasons the veteran players can get so upset when we do something that is directed towards casual players. We often see posts to the effect of "but we're ALL asking for x and then you go ahead and do y - you're not listening". We care equally about both categories of players and wouldn't be here otherwise.

Crafting was intended to be one of the ways that non-raiders (note that this doesn't just mean 'casual') could acquire very good gear over time. In my opinion, gear is the weakest area of the game right now. I don't believe players should be forced to raid in order to be able to advance in the game.

I believe that players that avoid the hardest content in the game should not have the same gear as those who run the harder content. That to me seems logical as challenge not grind should be rewarded primarily. There are plenty of ways to combine epic crafting with cannith crafting to accomplish the goal of making the crafting system provide top end gear. The idea that people should merely bypass the harder content though and get great gear is silly. Thankfully cannith crafting does not accomplish that right now though.

As for forcing players to raid to advance in the game. There has been no such restriction in the game prior to this point so I don't see what the concern here is. Plenty of people make it to max level without touching a raid and TR without touching a raid. If they want awesome gear though they really should be running the hardest content be it epic quests or raids.

Note, there is TONS of room and logic for making part of cannith crafting to be for great fill in gear for new and casual players. Really the insane levels for crafting decent to good equipment (but really not great) equipment is the impediment for casual/new players to use the crafting system in this regard and get good use out of it. Merely adjusting the crafting level and fixing the ML of lots of different useful and standard random loot modifiers this goal would be reached.

[Arnhelm]

I don't believe players should be forced to raid in order to be able to advance in the game.
As someone who's playstyle is neither casual gamer nor raid-machine...

Thank you.

[BlargneyTheSecond]

I would agree to that to an extent. I am a casual player for sure... I play maybe 10 hours a week, Some weeks it might be 40 but others 5 it's all over the map.

I am also a F2P player. I have spent probably $200 on TP though and I used to have a subscription. In essence I am probably exactly the kind of player they want to keep. If the game wasn't F2P I wouldn't be here really and in the end I am probably spending almost as much or maybe slightly more on the game that if I had a subscription but I like having the ability to just turn the tap off and not spend more $ if I don't want to. Granted that hasn't happened, LOL.

For me crafting has been a bit of a bugaboo. The very first thing it did was suck everything worth buying out of the eonomy. The AH is bare and what does go in there has had it's price doubled or better. The market... well anything ANYONE pawns goes PDQ. I have literally gone through all the vendors in all 4 instances and found less than a dozen items at times.

The end result is that if I start a new toon and don't have gear to hand him he's not going to be able to aquire it unless he gets lucky and finds it. This is a serious downer.

The answer .. take my highest level toon and make him my crafter. He finds the best loot to deconstruct anyway so we start leveling him. I am in the mid 20's in Elemental and Divine and just shy of 30 in Arcane. He has been able to craft a set of +2 Acid handwraps for my 5th level monk as well as a robe of +2 Nat armour and invulnerability. I crafted that literally the day before crafting died, and I was just able to manage it.

So I looked at it at the time and though OK well it sucked wasting all that playing time to get my level up but I can at least now make some gear for my low level guys.

From my perspective there is NO reason for unbound shards. If you want them to be there (and I really don't see the need) then make them something that drops. Either as an item that can combine with a shard to "unbind" it OR as a completed unbound shard. Sure those unbound shards of perform +5 are going to be vendor trash, then again so are the gloves and rings right?

That unbound shard of Holy burst though... well that is something I can either use myself or sell for some good coin, much like the Ring of Spell Storing or Bloodstone is.

In essence what you need to do is make unbound crafting either VERY difficult, VERY rare or VERY expensive. Preferably all 3.

I know I am sure that you have a vision of Players setting up shops and selling that gear to the lowbies but really the last thing anyone who did the grind, grind, grind to get that crafting level is going to want to do is sit around and make +1 flaming shortswords for 500 plat. It's just not going to happen, the very few who do will basically be the guys working their way to the top of the rung.

The end game scenario here doesn't really have an option but the, once again, increasing of monster difficulty. In the end the game will ONLY be about DPS. Years ago it wasn't but even now it's very difficult to have a non-twink build get into a raid or epic, especially within a PUG.

Please don't drive me away I enjoy the game but if it's not accessible / fun then I won't be here.
Jeez, I don't think there's a single thing you said in this post that isn't true for me as well.

[MadFloyd]

Not sure why but that statement worries me. I hope you're not planning on over-compensating by flooding the place. I still think the original random loot way of gaining items was one of DDO's strongest and most endearing qualities which makes it stand out from the rest along with its combat system.

What I meant by this is that in days of old, when there was less content in the game, players were expected to re-run dungeons a fair amount (notice how I didn't say 'ad nauseum' :-)) and loot availability in game was balanced for this. Today, more players play content on one difficulty and move on and miss out on some of the good gear.

[LucidLTS]

I'm a casual player, but I'm a VIP .. surely you mean F2P?

What I really meant was "All reasonably motivated casual players, be they VIP, Premium, or F2P", but that was a bit of a mouthful. When I say "reasonably motivated" I mean no handouts, but nothing that can't be eaten in reasonable sized bites, and without access to a special fork. A casual VIP might have full access to Necro 1-4, but might have trouble getting through them all on elite.



All most of us veterans and power gamers are asking for is to show us the same common courtesy we extend to you. Come prepared!

Exactly! That's why the casual gamer needs Canith Crafting - I know the characters I like to play are not at the maximum efficiency stat and feat wise. I know my (player not character) skills are nowhere near power gamer. Right now, my gear isn't great either. Sure I farmed Relics of a Sovereign Past for the heavy fort necklace. And I haunted the AH for days to get a robe of the Magi. But I've got a long way to go and I know it.

Canith Crafting could give me a path to decent gear so when I send you a tell saying "Hey, I've never done this raid (or hard quest), do you have room for me" I feel I have a chance to contribute. I've done the backpack ride, it's humiliating. No amount of free XP, Favor, or gear is worth that.

I've PUGed with players like you and I'm deeply grateful for your patience and insight. I try to behave that way for newer players (yes, there are some newer than me). I am eager to meet you half way and Canith Crafting seems integral to that effort. It's not a replacement for reading the forums and wiki, asking advice, and grinding quests. It supplements them.



And thanks to MadFloyd and Dirac for the encouragement, you guys made my day :)

[Lifeblood]

What I meant by this is that in days of old, when there was less content in the game, players were expected to re-run dungeons a fair amount (notice how I didn't say 'ad nauseum' :-)) and loot availability in game was balanced for this. Today, more players play content on one difficulty and move on and miss out on some of the good gear.

So your going to make that good gear available in more quests?
To me that ruins something

I am of a mind that if you want it go get it...

Planer Gird...great item drops in one quest..the quest is a pain if you don't know your way and brutal if your a completely new player/grp...half of the reward was beating that quest until it cried Uncle and gave you one so you wouldn't come back

Bloodstone/Greaves drop in 2/1 chests not an easy grind but worth the effort for that added dps/protection

I am sure these are extreme examples but I hope you get my point

Don't take something that is worth the effort to grind for and make it something you can find just because you made it off of korthos

people choose to not run content for many reasons..if they really want something make it worth having

If i won the lottery every time i bought a ticket..eventually i would stop buying tickets

[dragonofsteel2]

What I meant by this is that in days of old, when there was less content in the game, players were expected to re-run dungeons a fair amount (notice how I didn't say 'ad nauseum' :-)) and loot availability in game was balanced for this. Today, more players play content on one difficulty and move on and miss out on some of the good gear.

You mean the stupid mindless grind times might be coming to a end.. This I would love to see. Reality all proves you can do the samething over and over, making kind of like a job not a game to me. The fun part about the game is challanging yourselfs. Not running the same epics or quest over and over again.

[Gremmlynn]

I believe that players that avoid the hardest content in the game should not have the same gear as those who run the harder content. That to me seems logical as challenge not grind should be rewarded primarily. There are plenty of ways to combine epic crafting with cannith crafting to accomplish the goal of making the crafting system provide top end gear. The idea that people should merely bypass the harder content though and get great gear is silly. Thankfully cannith crafting does not accomplish that right now though.

As for forcing players to raid to advance in the game. There has been no such restriction in the game prior to this point so I don't see what the concern here is. Plenty of people make it to max level without touching a raid and TR without touching a raid. If they want awesome gear though they really should be running the hardest content be it epic quests or raids.

Note, there is TONS of room and logic for making part of cannith crafting to be for great fill in gear for new and casual players. Really the insane levels for crafting decent to good equipment (but really not great) equipment is the impediment for casual/new players to use the crafting system in this regard and get good use out of it. Merely adjusting the crafting level and fixing the ML of lots of different useful and standard random loot modifiers this goal would be reached.While I have no problem with not being able to craft a named item, I see nothing wrong with anyone being able to craft an unnamed item with the same, or even situationally better, functionality. it still gives those with the better gaming skills their trophy, but without giving those that don't a reason to play something else.

Personally I think it is a mistake to tie being a great crafter to being a great quester. I also see no problem with making crafting a huge mind-boggleing simple grind fest. This may not do much to keep the raid grinders playing, but that's what raids are for. But I tell you give someone a niche, no matter how boring, that they can excel at in a game in which they are otherwise mediocre at and they will fill it.

So if crafting is boring and raids are fun, go raid. Because there are plenty who will make your twink for you if crafting is easy and raids are hard.

[dragonofsteel2]

What I really meant was "All reasonably motivated casual players, be they VIP, Premium, or F2P", but that was a bit of a mouthful. When I say "reasonably motivated" I mean no handouts, but nothing that can't be eaten in reasonable sized bites, and without access to a special fork. A casual VIP might have full access to Necro 1-4, but might have trouble getting through them all on elite.




Exactly! That's why the casual gamer needs Canith Crafting - I know the characters I like to play are not at the maximum efficiency stat and feat wise. I know my (player not character) skills are nowhere near power gamer. Right now, my gear isn't great either. Sure I farmed Relics of a Sovereign Past for the heavy fort necklace. And I haunted the AH for days to get a robe of the Magi. But I've got a long way to go and I know it.

Canith Crafting could give me a path to decent gear so when I send you a tell saying "Hey, I've never done this raid (or hard quest), do you have room for me" I feel I have a chance to contribute. I've done the backpack ride, it's humiliating. No amount of free XP, Favor, or gear is worth that.

I've PUGed with players like you and I'm deeply grateful for your patience and insight. I try to behave that way for newer players (yes, there are some newer than me). I am eager to meet you half way and Canith Crafting seems integral to that effort. It's not a replacement for reading the forums and wiki, asking advice, and grinding quests. It supplements them.



And thanks to MadFloyd and Dirac for the encouragement, you guys made my day :)

I find hard to beleive casual players will gain much benifit out crafting, unless u make super easy to craft unbound shards. Though we will see. The funny part is the TR system that Turbine started cause people to not want new players in there parties. Reality is I have so much time to get stuff done and if take a new player ups the time it takes to do the quest. So gets really annoying when I place zerging lfm and have new players hitting it.

The problem was create by Turbine creating a Tr system that takes more xp, wanting to sell more xp pots and anything that goes with leveling. Though as you have showed above it easier to blame the idiot treating you badly within the system. (In my belief they would sold more and had better relationship between new and old players with xp cost being the same as the first lvl through.) Because this would have intice more to TR. The power gamers that stayed with Turbine to this point were not going to leave and creating a system that was to easy for the majority would have generated more revenue. In fact some of these power gamers would just get 2 maybe 3 maybe 4 comptionist.

It just numbers you have 10k people doing something compared to 100 the 10k tend to make you lot more $. I would ratherr have 1k to 2k comptionist by now instead just handiful each server. 1 person buying 10 to 15 xp per life compare to 20 peeps buying 5 to 10 hmmm. Now do I have the tools to run the numbers on my idea, nope. Though talking to peeps I tell now if it was easier to do there would been alot more people doing it.

Though back to real point, Turbne causes more anguish between new players and vet's by making this TR system a insane grind to get anywere. This point I do not want to deal with extra hour helping new players learn quest. Trust me sometimes its worse then that. A quest that takes me 5 to 10 min to solo, has tooken me over 1 hour with pugs. I know all the groups and people not like this, but when takes ton xp to get what you want, then couple mishaps like this don't want to group with new players at all. Though if was just 1.9million xp, helping peeps out would not make feel like it was going to take insane amount of time to complete.

[Nyvn]

I find hard to beleive casual players will gain much benifit out crafting, unless u make super easy to craft unbound shards. Though we will see. The funny part is the TR system that Turbine started cause people to not want new players in there parties. Reality is I have so much time to get stuff done and if take a new player ups the time it takes to do the quest. So gets really annoying when I place zerging lfm and have new players hitting it.

The problem was create by Turbine creating a Tr system that takes more xp, wanting to sell more xp pots and anything that goes with leveling. Though as you have showed above it easier to blame the idiot treating you badly within the system. (In my belief they would sold more and had better relationship between new and old players with xp cost being the same as the first lvl through.) Because this would have intice more to TR. The power gamers that stayed with Turbine to this point were not going to leave and creating a system that was to easy for the majority would have generated more revenue. In fact some of these power gamers would just get 2 maybe 3 maybe 4 comptionist.

It just numbers you have 10k people doing something compared to 100 the 10k tend to make you lot more $. I would ratherr have 1k to 2k comptionist by now instead just handiful each server. 1 person buying 10 to 15 xp per life compare to 20 peeps buying 5 to 10 hmmm. Now do I have the tools to run the numbers on my idea, nope. Though talking to peeps I tell now if it was easier to do there would been alot more people doing it.

Though back to real point, Turbne causes more anguish between new players and vet's by making this TR system a insane grind to get anywere. This point I do not want to deal with extra hour helping new players learn quest. Trust me sometimes its worse then that. A quest that takes me 5 to 10 min to solo, has tooken me over 1 hour with pugs. I know all the groups and people not like this, but when takes ton xp to get what you want, then couple mishaps like this don't want to group with new players at all. Though if was just 1.9million xp, helping peeps out would not make feel like it was going to take insane amount of time to complete.

Also if it was easier to TR people would be doing it more often, and buying more Hearts from the store.

[jakedamus]

DD is a great game if it wasn't I would play another. The developers have done an exception job of creating a varied and vast world that is fun to play in. But I will am weary of sudden changes and unorganization such as the crafting shutdown.

The crafting shutdown was unorganized there was no solid plan. React first think later.
(It is obvious 'they' didn't have a plan if you read madfloyds post. Either they had no plan and madfloyd is listening to the community in order to formulate one or they have a plan and madfloyd's post is only a PR campaign to give the illusion the community is being consulted - either option is not particularly inspiring.)

What I know as a long time MMOGer is that when 'they' (the devs, the ones in control, turbine, whatever) start making unorganized changes without first warning the subscribers the game is in trouble. I say this while I recall the horror of SWG. These kind of moves show a break down in the system often from someone above the devs. A willingness to implement sudden change of a system already live is a bad sign in my opinion. This crafting shutdown will probably work out fine it is not this I am worried about it is the willingness to implement sudden shutdowns.

If the subscribers are not respected or if unorganized sudden changes are made which retcon or drastically nerf a character's progress subscribers will leave. Vast amounts of time, the most valuable of all commodities, is spent creating and leveling our characters - make that redundant and resentment is inevitable. I am not saying this is happening with the crafting lockout. I am only saying Turbine has shown it is prepared to make sudden changes which worries me.

DDO is a great game but it is not the only one available. I will not mention its name but there is a huge MMO in the pipes which has been anticipated for a few years now. When that game is released DDO better have their shizznit together or there will be a mass exodus.

[Gremmlynn]

I find hard to beleive casual players will gain much benifit out crafting, unless u make super easy to craft unbound shards. Though we will see. The funny part is the TR system that Turbine started cause people to not want new players in there parties. Reality is I have so much time to get stuff done and if take a new player ups the time it takes to do the quest. So gets really annoying when I place zerging lfm and have new players hitting it.

The problem was create by Turbine creating a Tr system that takes more xp, wanting to sell more xp pots and anything that goes with leveling. Though as you have showed above it easier to blame the idiot treating you badly within the system. (In my belief they would sold more and had better relationship between new and old players with xp cost being the same as the first lvl through.) Because this would have intice more to TR. The power gamers that stayed with Turbine to this point were not going to leave and creating a system that was to easy for the majority would have generated more revenue. In fact some of these power gamers would just get 2 maybe 3 maybe 4 comptionist.

It just numbers you have 10k people doing something compared to 100 the 10k tend to make you lot more $. I would ratherr have 1k to 2k comptionist by now instead just handiful each server. 1 person buying 10 to 15 xp per life compare to 20 peeps buying 5 to 10 hmmm. Now do I have the tools to run the numbers on my idea, nope. Though talking to peeps I tell now if it was easier to do there would been alot more people doing it.

Though back to real point, Turbne causes more anguish between new players and vet's by making this TR system a insane grind to get anywere. This point I do not want to deal with extra hour helping new players learn quest. Trust me sometimes its worse then that. A quest that takes me 5 to 10 min to solo, has tooken me over 1 hour with pugs. I know all the groups and people not like this, but when takes ton xp to get what you want, then couple mishaps like this don't want to group with new players at all. Though if was just 1.9million xp, helping peeps out would not make feel like it was going to take insane amount of time to complete.No. As long as TRing is seen as something to get past rather than something to do it wont matter how many xp are required, as it will still be zerged. The only difference would be in how long it takes to zerg it and get on with the next life, or the next completionist.

[GeneralDiomedes]

What I really meant was "All reasonably motivated casual players, be they VIP, Premium, or F2P", but that was a bit of a mouthful. When I say "reasonably motivated" I mean no handouts, but nothing that can't be eaten in reasonable sized bites, and without access to a special fork. A casual VIP might have full access to Necro 1-4, but might have trouble getting through them all on elite.

As a casual VIP, the only thing that really is beyond my reach is extreme repetition. Time is the factor here, not any particular quest or chest or difficulty level. So I kind of disagree with your premise of a "special fork". I think the best thing for a "casual" is a some kind of effective gear tiers that can be reached without an extreme time investment. Which they have done. I have no illusions of crafting a holy/GEOB any time soon.

And to cater to the F2P players which can't get enough favor or do all the quest packs, sure, limit the quest specific shard requirements. But that has absolutely nothing to do with casual. I actually support favor and quest rewards because it encourages people to run a greater variety of quests, and always have because I think DDO has a rich tapestry of quests that are mostly neglected.

[sirgog]

I find hard to beleive casual players will gain much benifit out crafting, unless u make super easy to craft unbound shards. Though we will see. The funny part is the TR system that Turbine started cause people to not want new players in there parties. Reality is I have so much time to get stuff done and if take a new player ups the time it takes to do the quest. So gets really annoying when I place zerging lfm and have new players hitting it.

The problem was create by Turbine creating a Tr system that takes more xp, wanting to sell more xp pots and anything that goes with leveling. Though as you have showed above it easier to blame the idiot treating you badly within the system. (In my belief they would sold more and had better relationship between new and old players with xp cost being the same as the first lvl through.) Because this would have intice more to TR. The power gamers that stayed with Turbine to this point were not going to leave and creating a system that was to easy for the majority would have generated more revenue. In fact some of these power gamers would just get 2 maybe 3 maybe 4 comptionist.

It just numbers you have 10k people doing something compared to 100 the 10k tend to make you lot more $. I would ratherr have 1k to 2k comptionist by now instead just handiful each server. 1 person buying 10 to 15 xp per life compare to 20 peeps buying 5 to 10 hmmm. Now do I have the tools to run the numbers on my idea, nope. Though talking to peeps I tell now if it was easier to do there would been alot more people doing it.

Though back to real point, Turbne causes more anguish between new players and vet's by making this TR system a insane grind to get anywere. This point I do not want to deal with extra hour helping new players learn quest. Trust me sometimes its worse then that. A quest that takes me 5 to 10 min to solo, has tooken me over 1 hour with pugs. I know all the groups and people not like this, but when takes ton xp to get what you want, then couple mishaps like this don't want to group with new players at all. Though if was just 1.9million xp, helping peeps out would not make feel like it was going to take insane amount of time to complete.

/this.

On a 32 point life I'm friendly to casual players and newbies.

On a 36 pointer, I'm a total and utter jerk to them.

[dragonofsteel2]

/this.

On a 32 point life I'm friendly to casual players and newbies.

On a 36 pointer, I'm a total and utter jerk to them.

Lol yes that is it p.. I helped a lot more when I had just 1.9million xp to get, then 4.3 million like now. Having more time made me more likely to help new players. I guess you miss the point, it not the xp that makes them a jerk.. It the system that makes the jerks more noticable since the nicer players dont feel like dealing with the lose of time helping new players. Guess what leaving more of the jerks and idiots to the population of new players.

Not saying you change when doing a 32 point build from a 36 point build.

THough I know my attiude about pugging peeps change majorly. I hate losing time because of the large grind it is. Little bit here and there no biggie, but what new players cost you sometimes no way. Yes I have Tr a bunch, so this comes from my experience. I stop pugging almost totally since the new TR system. With the massive amount of xp needed to get the TR's I am trying to get done, I dont have the time to waste with new players. Though before when I ran new toon up wiating for end game quest and raids, I would help newer players all the time. Is xping really hard to do? Not at all, after running the same quest for 1,000 + times really not fun anymore either.

The only real reason I am doing TR's is wiating for more end game things to do.

[noinfo]

So your going to make that good gear available in more quests?
To me that ruins something

I am of a mind that if you want it go get it...

Planer Gird...great item drops in one quest..the quest is a pain if you don't know your way and brutal if your a completely new player/grp...half of the reward was beating that quest until it cried Uncle and gave you one so you wouldn't come back

Bloodstone/Greaves drop in 2/1 chests not an easy grind but worth the effort for that added dps/protection



The point I believe he is actually making is that you do not have to run these things over and over again because while they are certainly a challenge at level (and get you xp) going and running these things on your capped whatever is a joke and boring (and lets face it people farm on their most powerful toons because they want to do it fast). Making it something that you can achieve by running content that is fun and then crafting it still requires grind but grind you can achieve while doing other things.

The 2 items you listed are items still useful at end game, if you have not achieved them by end game either by purchasing or farming on the way, I personally would rather be able to craft useful gear (though unlikely to be this type) and provide materials that I aquire running actual content I enjoy running such as Amarath or Raids. These items will not necessarily lose value do to crafting because devs have made the crafting effects available on different items (and no GH clikies anyway or seeker on body items).

[Solmage]

Casual gamers are more than welcome. A great portion of our efforts have been with them in mind. Their voice is typically not heard on these forums and I think that's one of the reasons the veteran players can get so upset when we do something that is directed towards casual players. We often see posts to the effect of "but we're ALL asking for x and then you go ahead and do y - you're not listening". We care equally about both categories of players and wouldn't be here otherwise.

Crafting was intended to be one of the ways that non-raiders (note that this doesn't just mean 'casual') could acquire very good gear over time. In my opinion, gear is the weakest area of the game right now. I don't believe players should be forced to raid in order to be able to advance in the game.

Considering how much you guys have catered to the casual gamers, over the dead bodies of your loyal long-time-paying "power gamers" protests, I personally find it highly insulting that someone implies you only cater to the power gamers.

If anything, I venture that what little concessions you still make for power gamers are based just on this sense of loyalty (the basic desire to not fully kick them in the face after all the long years) rather than any real financial reasons.

However, I suggest you take a look at STO and it's retention rates to see how well it works to just cater to the casual gamer. You can start playing and have yourself fully equipped in the best gear from 0 in 2 months... if you're not very hardcore, faster otherwise, and then.. what.. exactly. Maybe you can get another 3 months out of the pvp, if you're good at it, but then that's hardcore player territory to be any good at that.

But just for lulz, maybe you should compile a list of the top 10 things power gamers want, and the top 10 casual players want, could be interesting, and fun. We can then see which gets filled.. :)

Now, this quote is dangerous: " I don't believe players should be forced to raid in order to be able to advance in the game." - they already can do this, it's called epics. But what you really mean is, "casual players will be allowed to be nearly as powerful as those who run epics and raids, without having to run them", isn't it? Then why will the power gamers run anything at all? Just for the story? See STO above for how well that works.

Currently a +5 holyburst [special DR metal] of Greater Bane [add slot for lulz] is superior to most raid and epic loot, although not all. Still, why, the eff, will I spend the effort to get the epic or raid loot when I can just churn out that stuff for all my characters anytime I want to? The answer is I didn't. Number of greensteel weapons I have crafted since crafting came out: 0. Number of characters who could have benefited: 2-3. Number of large scales just lying around my inventory? Oh about 20 or so, and the same number of stones and such. Why spend larges to create something equivalent and in many cases weaker than something freely available. Is the epic sos worth getting for me now, even though it IS better than a crafted greataxe, by sizeable chunk? Nope. The margin isn't large enough, vs effort spent. Those chars of mine who already have one, keep it, the rest, who cares, they'll get their greater banes.

Anyway, just my 2 coppers that came more like 2 plat, sorry for the rant, and I hope I didn't offend anyone.

[Dark_Helmet]

DDO is very different because of its connection to DnD. As long as DnD is around, there will be that link for new people to pick up this game. Many of those will be casual players, some of those may not play video games at all! :eek: It is very important that this game have a way to bring those players into the fold and keep it fun for them.


Sorry, but they killed the DnD cash cow while reaching for the MMO bull.
They have a unique license to attract all of the DnD players since this is the only licensed DnD MMO. Being faithful to that ruleset would give them a larger audience of faithful players.
Yet, they clamored for the MMO player exclusively by sacrificing the PnP rules as they adopt everything that other MMOs currently execute.

Only thing they got was the F2P people - who traditionally are not faithful to a game. They just hop all over the place when they are bored since they have very little investment and several MMOs are similar.

Now that other MMOs are going the F2P way, what makes them unique?

I think they still need to work out their long term bugs (by listening to their feedback on test servers) and make it a cleaner DnD experience.

[maddmatt70]

Casual gamers are more than welcome. A great portion of our efforts have been with them in mind. Their voice is typically not heard on these forums and I think that's one of the reasons the veteran players can get so upset when we do something that is directed towards casual players. We often see posts to the effect of "but we're ALL asking for x and then you go ahead and do y - you're not listening". We care equally about both categories of players and wouldn't be here otherwise.

Crafting was intended to be one of the ways that non-raiders (note that this doesn't just mean 'casual') could acquire very good gear over time. In my opinion, gear is the weakest area of the game right now. I don't believe players should be forced to raid in order to be able to advance in the game.

This is very interesting. Was crafting your only intended solution to this? Do you plan to make 6 person quest named loot more attractive? How about random loot? I remember the old level 14 cap days fairly fondly from the standpoint of people were excited when they looted chests in 6 person quests. There was a whole segment of people that were not into running raids, but would religiously sack those end game chests and complete 6 person quests. They were definitely not casual gamers, but they were not raiders either.

[Habreno]

Agreed. For example, Soul Gems need to be considered ingredients (currently they are not, but will be for next update).

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't Soul Gem Bags for this exact purpose?

[Afyndax]

Casual gamers are more than welcome. A great portion of our efforts have been with them in mind. Their voice is typically not heard on these forums and I think that's one of the reasons the veteran players can get so upset when we do something that is directed towards casual players. We often see posts to the effect of "but we're ALL asking for x and then you go ahead and do y - you're not listening". We care equally about both categories of players and wouldn't be here otherwise.

Crafting was intended to be one of the ways that non-raiders (note that this doesn't just mean 'casual') could acquire very good gear over time. In my opinion, gear is the weakest area of the game right now. I don't believe players should be forced to raid in order to be able to advance in the game.

I am a very new player (about one month). I spent my first real money on the game a few days ago and so I know very little about DDO. But I will tell you with certainty that this dev statement is the most important thing ANY MMO developer needs to know. One of the biggest reasons WOW is WOW is because they found ways to let all player types progress their character at endgame. It doesn´t matter if you only play WOW for 1 hour per week.. you can log in that week and run a heroic dungeon and maybe get a drop, but always get ´tokens´that you can use to buy gear. You ALWAYS feel like your character is getting more powerful. In most games, once you hit cap level, your options are severely limited on how to progress your character.

[BlargneyTheSecond]

I am a very new player (about one month). I spent my first real money on the game a few days ago and so I know very little about DDO. But I will tell you with certainty that this dev statement is the most important thing ANY MMO developer needs to know. One of the biggest reasons WOW is WOW is because they found ways to let all player types progress their character at endgame. It doesn´t matter if you only play WOW for 1 hour per week.. you can log in that week and run a heroic dungeon and maybe get a drop, but always get ´tokens´that you can use to buy gear. You ALWAYS feel like your character is getting more powerful. In most games, once you hit cap level, your options are severely limited on how to progress your character.
I agree.

I deeply enjoyed the introduction of Crystal Cove and Cannith crafting because they are systems that allow me to make progress towards items I want. They meshed so well with my innate motivational scheme that I sank a LOT of time and resources into both. Making progress is fun and satisfying. :)

[Feithlin]

But as a new player, I would consider the new LOB recipe as almost out of reach. I didn't recognize the new ingredient, but I think I heard it's some kind of Shroud collectable. If I could run Shroud I'd just craft greensteel and not need to worry about cannith crafting. (Hypothetically; I mainly want to avoid Shroud because I don't like to raid.)

LOB only requires a medium scale. It's quite easy to get: some shroud runs (you don't even need to finish), some elite DA runs, some Amrath runs. Everywhere there are devils, you can find medium shroud ingredients. And buying a medium scale, even considering the increased cost they will suffer, will still cost you a lot less than a blank silver khopesh.
If you don't have any of these packs, great news: you won't need that weapon ;)

COB is a bit different, and this is my problem, because you need to own devils' packs, while the weapon will be used in another type of content. They should rework it (by requiring invasion tokens as I proposed in another post for example).

Other than that, the recipes who were more affected are very high level, so were inaccessible to casual players in the short term. By the time they are capable to craft them, most will certainly have the ingredients to do almost any shard they like.

Then, the exceptions would be Holy burst or Greater dragon bane shards, because Holy burst requires a SF pot, that you can only get if you have all necro packs (I don't and won't, so I'll just ignore that recipe), and GDB 5 items you only get (or am I wrong) in ToR, which means a horrible grinding, unless they change the drop rate (which would be a bad thing imo, because if they did, there would be no more limitation to be a FvS or a Sorc compared to clerics or wizards; it seems better to reduce the requirement to 1 or 2 of these items).

Soul gems are a great idea: that gives soul gems some use, and for someone who doesn't have a caster, you only need to know one and give him the dragonshards he needs. If you don't any caster, well perhaps you should try to socialize a bit... I can't believe there is not a single caster in your guild. Heck, you could only ask the wizard(s) who join your group into a quest where you will find the right ennemies.

I understand your preoccupation, but look closely, it's not the doom many pretend it is.

[BlargneyTheSecond]

A thought about altering the Cannith system:

1) All shards are reverted to the same costs as before this latest patch.
2) All shards are made bound-to-character on acquire.
3) Add a ritual to make BtC shards BtA. Devs can set that cost to whatever they want. (Perhaps based generically on the + of the shard?)
4) Add another ritual to make BtA shards unbound. Again, that price can be whatever the devs want.

Are there any major flaws with a setup like that?
-blarg

ps - Btw the objective of those changes would be to make the cost of leveling up a character still feasible, but make it more expensive to pass shards to other characters.

[Astarii]

It seems that there are plenty of things to use as ingredients that will not cause problems, I love soul gems. Great way to make them useful, I would also suggest other regular gems, they are some what worthless. No one keeps them, and they are already very assessable. But, they could be regular potions, scrolls, cookies, festival twigs, coal , etc. I'm also not appose to having top end ones be the resurrection cakes. There is a lot to choose from....

I think it would be nice to create better items for lower level toons, In my mind crafting (Plus set combos) is the the stepping stone for your new toon to your green-steel items & Late game set items. However, crafting many of the useful items become to high of a level to even use. (in regards to that i always wanted a low level dual area)

I agree with a previous individual that you would like to always feel your progressing with leveling on crafting. Perhaps there can be a creative way to incorporate this with out breaking anything...perhaps involving a trainer that can be used only X days (maybe every 3?) , like what the sorc & fvs have to do w/ spells. Really this approach slows progression down, witch in turn causes balance. It does not do it through TP nor expensive raid loot or anything else.

[puget]

I have been reading this thread and I want to say thank you to all the higher end players, and the ViP's, as well as the Turbine staff.

Thinking of the F2P, and prem players when you all are giving your input has given me an entirely new outlook and respect on this game, and the community at large, it is not like ANYTHING I have experienced on any other MMO.

ANYWHERE.

I am one of those that has had the desire to group and raid sucked out of me by another won't name game out there, so in reading this thread (well, made it to page 7) and seeing that you concern yourselves with the lowly new players, raid loot, accessibility to similar minded players such as me, well, I just want to give you all hugs.

Just a very profound and earnest thank you to you all........especially the devs, I will give you guys less grief from now on.

[Victorhammer]

Considering how much you guys have catered to the casual gamers, over the dead bodies of your loyal long-time-paying "power gamers" protests, I personally find it highly insulting that someone implies you only cater to the power gamers.

If anything, I venture that what little concessions you still make for power gamers are based just on this sense of loyalty (the basic desire to not fully kick them in the face after all the long years) rather than any real financial reasons.

However, I suggest you take a look at STO and it's retention rates to see how well it works to just cater to the casual gamer. You can start playing and have yourself fully equipped in the best gear from 0 in 2 months... if you're not very hardcore, faster otherwise, and then.. what.. exactly. Maybe you can get another 3 months out of the pvp, if you're good at it, but then that's hardcore player territory to be any good at that.

But just for lulz, maybe you should compile a list of the top 10 things power gamers want, and the top 10 casual players want, could be interesting, and fun. We can then see which gets filled.. :)

Now, this quote is dangerous: " I don't believe players should be forced to raid in order to be able to advance in the game." - they already can do this, it's called epics. But what you really mean is, "casual players will be allowed to be nearly as powerful as those who run epics and raids, without having to run them", isn't it? Then why will the power gamers run anything at all? Just for the story? See STO above for how well that works.

Currently a +5 holyburst [special DR metal] of Greater Bane [add slot for lulz] is superior to most raid and epic loot, although not all. Still, why, the eff, will I spend the effort to get the epic or raid loot when I can just churn out that stuff for all my characters anytime I want to? The answer is I didn't. Number of greensteel weapons I have crafted since crafting came out: 0. Number of characters who could have benefited: 2-3. Number of large scales just lying around my inventory? Oh about 20 or so, and the same number of stones and such. Why spend larges to create something equivalent and in many cases weaker than something freely available. Is the epic sos worth getting for me now, even though it IS better than a crafted greataxe, by sizeable chunk? Nope. The margin isn't large enough, vs effort spent. Those chars of mine who already have one, keep it, the rest, who cares, they'll get their greater banes.

Anyway, just my 2 coppers that came more like 2 plat, sorry for the rant, and I hope I didn't offend anyone.

I believe your rant is misplaced and not even needed in the end. As for who is supporting this game only Turbine can data mine and tell for sure. But I would bet the casual gamer supports more than 1/2 the cost of ddo.
Based upon numbers something like 20,000 power gamers with 50% of them p2p so maybe 10,000 subs and some 200,000+ casual gamers with 10% p2p making some 20,000 paying subs or double the number of power gamers.
Turbine does run a business first, game second and if they could operate this game without the casual gamer then they probably would, like they already do with Asherons Call over the last 20 years or so. So you are not telling Turbine anything they do not already know about running a MMO. They have been doing it probably longer than your have been alive. Your reference to STO is shameful as if you can school Turbine in how to run a MMO.

Second as for Casual gamers becoming as powerful or more powerful than you are guess again. At the rate that my toons are gaining crafting skill combined with the cost of essences it will be nearly 2 more years before I can craft top gear. By then we might have a level 30 cap to the game for the power gamers to tackle. You power gamers will always be far ahead of the casual gamers we just do not play enough to challenge you ever. I can not believe you would even be worried that it might happen. The status of the power gamer will always be above the casual gamer. It is just in your nature to make it happen no matter what. Then again we are not PvP so why the big deal?
This is supposed to be a coperative player game? No? In the nearly 2 years I have been playing my highest toon is level 11 and has never done a quest above 9th level yet. I have only purchased 2 tomes all I could afford. I do not even have 1,000 favor yet. And you are worried that we are going to surpass your status? That is laughable!
ROTFLOL!!!

Us casual gamers have other things to do in life that keep us too busy too challenge your status in this game.
And challenging your status is not even important to us in the first place. This game is not about winning as in being the best.
It is about the adventure D&D has always been about the adventure and having fun doing it.
At least for me it is that way. Most of us do not define fun as being the most powerful player in the game so you need not worry about that at least not with the casual gamer you don't.
Heck I would bet more than 90% of the people that have played this game since it started have never reached 20th level with their toon. So be very afraid of those casual gamers besting you.
Again Turbine can data mine for that info. And they probably have done that already and those results are probably why they decided to build the crafting hall in the first place. Because they need players to stick around longer it funds the game. And eventually it will fund more classes and higher level caps and higher level quests to go with it and weapons. They need more mainstream folks getting to 20th level to justify a higher level cap and higher level content above level 20. If you were smart you would be onboard with this.
Last the casual gamer is not your enemy. This is not a PvP game or not intended to be that way.

[Unsure1]

Crafting Improvements

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well since Crafting is down i tought it would be benificial to channel my energies constructively so that being said here are some ideas:

1."Advanced Crafting Search Tool" - Alot of my time is now spent running from one machine to the next to try and find shards that mesh on one item, so a Slot selector for the Shard creation machine would b nice.

2."Level Appropriate Effects" - I see lots of effects that are nice to put on items, but they are all extremely high in both level req to craft and to wear. i see there is already things like cold touch - icy burst. cold touch for lower lvls and icy burst for higher, how about doing that with more effects like bleeding, Maiming, and so on

3."Item Appropriate Effects" if it can b found on an item in a dungeon i want to be able to craft it into my own items, I recently wasted about 3kp making a spell resist shard only to find out it cant go into a breastplate... Why cant spell resist go into a BP? its a Protective effect it should fit Protective type Gear

4. "Better deconstruction" i found out that i can deconstruct one million +1 shortswords and not get the items to make a +1 Enhancement shard? i wouldnt care if i needed to deconstruct 10 20 or 50 to make one +1 enhancement but if i deconstruct something it should give me the items needed to reconstruct it too (just not on a 1-1 ratio)

5. "Item Upgrading" I would love to be able to take a crafted +1 item and replace the +1 with +2 or +5 depending on the level or replace Cold touch with Icy burst, now i am not saying that this should be without restriction obviously if the craftable potential is reached u will have to make potential shards but this would be AWESOME.

I would like to say that overall i love the crafting system (when its around) and will love to see it back agian

[EllisDee37]

5. "Item Upgrading" I would love to be able to take a crafted +1 item and replace the +1 with +2 or +5 depending on the level or replace Cold touch with Icy burst, now i am not saying that this should be without restriction obviously if the craftable potential is reached u will have to make potential shards but this would be AWESOME.You can already. The shard machines can overwrite existing shards, but that option is turned off by default. Go to Options => Gameplay and toggle the checkbox labeled "Display error messages on shard creation" or something to that effect. Now you can overwrite shards directly without deconstructing the entire item first.

Note that there's a bug in this process where the shard machine adds all the potential together and compares it to the potential of the item, not being smart enough to realize that the shard being replaced shouldn't count. For "clearing" shards, Fire Touch (or any energy touch) is a +0 potential weapon prefix and the lowest level Poison Save is a +0 potential suffix for all non-weapons.

[Afyndax]

i am strongly against any ddo store item being used in crafting, as i am against almost all p2win things.

i am especially against the inclusion of materials like silver flame potions in crafting recipes. The silver flame potion in particular requires all 5 p2p packs run mostly on elite. this is not a fair cost in my opinion :/

My opinion is that this is fine. Having to run P2P packs in order to get crafting materials, especially high end materials is a good idea. Being able to buy the materials directly from the store is a bad idea.

[Backley]

There will be no named equippable items used as ingredients.
Vampirism currently requires this "named equippable item":
Locus of Vol, Equips to Neck (http://ddowiki.com/page/Locus_of_Vol)

[gloopygloop]

You can already. The shard machines can overwrite existing shards, but that option is turned off by default. Go to Options => Gameplay and toggle the checkbox labeled "Display error messages on shard creation" or something to that effect. Now you can overwrite shards directly without deconstructing the entire item first.


What EllisDee37 wrote was correct when it was written, but this appears to have been turned off in update 10.2.

[karl_k0ch]

Vampirism currently requires this "named quippable item":
Locus of Vol, Equips to Neck (http://ddowiki.com/page/Locus_of_Vol)

Booo!

[visibleman]

My GF (lvl 13 char) made a +7 armour min lvl 13. Took it to the Altar of Change to add +1 Dodge bonus. Got the message "this will take the item above its potential" so she had to go increase the armours potential to +8 (wasting a load of essences, grr!) then went back to the Altar and added the +1 Dodge bonus OK.
She then put on the armour ran a couple of quests and logged out.
Today when she logged in, the armour now says it is minimum level 15! ***!

There is definitely a bug here:
Why does the Altar of Change increase the min lvl of Crafted items when it doesn't affect other items??
And if this level increase is intended, why did this change of min lvl not take effect immediately?
And why is there no warning to the user that this will happen?

[BOgre]

Vampirism currently requires this "named equippable item":
Locus of Vol, Equips to Neck (http://ddowiki.com/page/Locus_of_Vol)

confirmed. and VERY boooo. MadFloyd please respond.

[MadFloyd]

Hmm, I'll have to interrogate someone on this. Certainly not a desirable/intended experience. I know we recently fixed a bug that sounds similar to this, but I'll have to check.

Sorry for the frustration. Did you bug report this by any chance?


My GF (lvl 13 char) made a +7 armour min lvl 13. Took it to the Altar of Change to add +1 Dodge bonus. Got the message "this will take the item above its potential" so she had to go increase the armours potential to +8 (wasting a load of essences, grr!) then went back to the Altar and added the +1 Dodge bonus OK.
She then put on the armour ran a couple of quests and logged out.
Today when she logged in, the armour now says it is minimum level 15! ***!

There is definitely a bug here:
Why does the Altar of Change increase the min lvl of Crafted items when it doesn't affect other items??
And if this level increase is intended, why did this change of min lvl not take effect immediately?
And why is there no warning to the user that this will happen?

[BOgre]

can't point to the specific thread now, but the forums have been abuzz about this for quite some time now. visibleman's post isn't the first I've read on this problem.

Now how about chiming in on the named equippable crafting mat?

[Gkar]

Hmm, I'll have to interrogate someone on this. Certainly not a desirable/intended experience. I know we recently fixed a bug that sounds similar to this, but I'll have to check.

Sorry for the frustration. Did you bug report this by any chance?

This experience is not unique. I added force burst to a crafted weapon and it treated the FB as if it used up 1 crafting level.

I didn't bug report it because I've seen it reported dozens of times on the lama forums and I knew it was going to happen. I thought it was a "known issue"

[herdisleah]

Little grumpy. I was crafting, taking items directly from bags and trying to split them from greater to lesser essences, when I got (error): An error has occured. when crafting, and I lost my essences (no essences gained.) Submitted a bug ticket and everything, and then a regular support ticket to hopefully have the person check the item logs and get essences back...No such luck. "This is not a known issue, please submit a bug report. Ticket closed" Yeah. Not so fun. Kinda put a damper on my crafting.