Ooops, I died. Recalling for ship buffs...

[Galeria]

Really? Really?

I'm starting to see people do this more and if it's a trend, let's nip it in the bud.

You just died. (Ding! -10%) And now you want us to wait while to travel back to your ship, smack the training dummy, get 100 buffs and come back to cause as another (Ding!) reentry penalty?

I don't think "ship buffs" are a legitimate reason to keep a party waiting before a quest starts. But I'll wait. But wasting the party's time when the quest is in progress as well as costing XP is so incredibly self-centered, I can't believe people think this is OK.

If I have the star and you recall without discussing it with the party, expect to be dismissed.

[Cam_Neely]

they did you a favor, as you can only remove party members when they are not in the instance. Count yourself lucky, they could have stayed in :)

[Memnir]

That's just silly.

[SaneDitto]

Seriously? People are thinking they can't survive a quest without ship buffs?

How did we ever get through the days before airships? :rolleyes:

[Sweyn]

Just boot him from the party. There's no reason to come to the forums to cry about it. It's not like it's a prevalent issue.

[elraido]

I agree. If I am the last one getting into a group, I normally teleport to where the quest is ASAP. While the buffs can be a nice perk, they don't make the build. I hate waiting, so I don't like to make people wait for something so trivial.

[somenewnoob]

That is pretty bad. I don't have a problem waiting a sec before the quest starts for people to get buffs .....keeps em alive longer........but leaving the quest to go get buffs after dying is pretty bad form IMO. Xp hit, not to mention your quest mates have to wait around for your sorry butt.

[Milfeulle]

they did you a favor, as you can only remove party members when they are not in the instance. Count yourself lucky, they could have stayed in :)

lol so true.

[Schmoe]

Oops, I booted you from the party.

[Roburn]

I agree. If I am the last one getting into a group, I normally teleport to where the quest is ASAP. While the buffs can be a nice perk, they don't make the build. I hate waiting, so I don't like to make people wait for something so trivial.

QFT - Thankfully I have only seen it once where someone died and recalled to get their ship buffs back. The leader of the group did indeed dismis that person & rightly so.

[Galeria]

Just boot him from the party. There's no reason to come to the forums to cry about it. It's not like it's a prevalent issue.

LOL, sorry not crying. I forgot to put PSA: You Do Not Need Ship Buffs to Finish a Quest as my title.

Cause it's a PSA, really..

[somenewnoob]

Nooooo Psa!!!! Nooooooo!!!!

[MrWizard]

Really? Really?

I'm starting to see people do this more and if it's a trend, let's nip it in the bud.

You just died. (Ding! -10%) And now you want us to wait while to travel back to your ship, smack the training dummy, get 100 buffs and come back to cause as another (Ding!) reentry penalty?

I don't think "ship buffs" are a legitimate reason to keep a party waiting before a quest starts. But I'll wait. But wasting the party's time when the quest is in progress as well as costing XP is so incredibly self-centered, I can't believe people think this is OK.

If I have the star and you recall without discussing it with the party, expect to be dismissed.


yea lame...I wonder if there was someone in the party that could buff them so they would not have to recall?

oh, forgot, casters and clerics don't buff anymore...

I'd drop em...

then finish the last minute or two of the dungeon and call out myself..

[Kale_Hagan]

Yeah, no kidding. My SOP is to run to quest entrance ASAP, then look around to see how much time I have. If I have enough, I'll go get ship buffs.

In practical terms, this means I only grab ship buffs for raids, and then only when I'm waiting for the party to fill. And even then normally only when doing Epics.

If you NEED ship buffs to complete the quest you shouldn't be doing something so far above your capability :)

[somenewnoob]

That really says a lot about self sufficiency when you NEED ship buffs. Doesn't anybody carry around pots and have greater resist cloaks anymore? Sheesh. I die......A LOT.......and anything I need I have on me every quest I run, so if I die and lose ship buffs I am ok.

[holfrar]

If this happened to me, i would not boot them, i would complete, loot, then let them re-enter.

Or if there was a fair bit of the quest left, be nice and polite and get them to let you know when they are close to getting back....then boot them :).

oh and of course /squelch.

[Galeria]

I'm not anti-ship buffs, I just think some people are getting way too dependent on them. And it seems the higher level the quest, the more likely people are to want to re-buffs, which kinda heads off the noob-didn't-know-any-better excuse.

Usually before I even join an LFM, I look at who's already in the party and where they are... if everyone is at the quest I head straight there. If people are scattered and some are still on ships, I'll stop by the ship for buffs first.

If I'm the last one accepted, I go straight to the quest. \

[MasterOfWorlds]

I agree, people dying is a big problem in DDO and needs to be nipped in the bud!!!

[cptcruch]

Just finish the quest? Or like others said "boot" them!!!!

Then /squelch (name) because you'll forever be spammed with messages....

[Roburn]

Doesn't anybody carry around pots and have greater resist cloaks anymore?

It seems to be a rare thing these days. I like those people who brag as to how many million plat, Greensteel and Epic items they have but can't chug a remove curse pot etc...

[Mrmorphling]

It happened to me in an Epic quest lol, the poor fella entered, we started and after few mins he said "oops i forgot ship buff, brb as xp isn't an issue"; and before we could tell him to stop joking he recalled...

[jackabat]

I kind of blame ship buffs here. The +1 to arbitrary stat ones don't actually give a character that much greater power, but all the 30 point energy resists drastically increase a low-level character's survivability, letting them pretty much stand in elite traps. Lightning-bolt casting shamans go from deadly to laughable. Fireballs kind of sting a bit. Et cetera and so on.

And newer players have a much harder time finagling all the nice energy resist items themselves. I mean, it's possible, and sure they should do it. But ship buffs are a lot easier and cheaper to get. Like, ridiculously easier.

I've found telling other puggers that the quest is really, really easy and they shouldn't have much trouble can convince them to avoid the ship. But that's just me. :)

[DoctorWhofan]

That is pretty bad. I don't have a problem waiting a sec before the quest starts for people to get buffs .....keeps em alive longer........but leaving the quest to go get buffs after dying is pretty bad form IMO. Xp hit, not to mention your quest mates have to wait around for your sorry butt.

I dunno why he left. It is obvious the ship buffs were useless on him anyways.

[somenewnoob]

I dunno why he left. It is obvious the ship buffs were useless on him anyways.

lol exactly!! They didn't prevent him from dying the first time!!

[Battlehawke]

Unless there has benn a good old fashioned party whipe, and there was a mandatory recall, this would be a very bad move, and to do it w/o saying anything to the group would be immediate grounds for a "boot".

[Cauthey]

I was in a VON raid recently, and one particular participant was insistent upon leaving and redoing his ship buffs.

Granted, it was a loot run, and XP was not really going to be a factor, but I was still really bothered that the person was so keen redoing buffs. And, the person recommended this for others.

Really? Is it really necessary? Another +1 to your skills and damage isn't going to make or break a quest.

I tried to voice that this person relied too heavily upon ship buffs. I was then the victim of a tirade stating how they were so great it was worth both the wait and effort.

Eugh! :mad:

[Uska]

I would say kick them

[jackabat]

Really? Is it really necessary? Another +1 to your skills and damage isn't going to make or break a quest.


Again, 30 points of all energy resistance is almost certainly what they were after. And if I remember anything about VON, that's a useful buff, and possibly higher resistance than a group caster could give them. If they were one of those guilds without energy shrines, yeah, that'd be ridiculous.

I'm not saying it's not a bad use of (other people's) time. Just that they probably didn't recall for +1 to hit. ;)

[DoctorWhofan]

Again, 30 points of all energy resistance is almost certainly what they were after. And if I remember anything about VON, that's a useful buff, and possibly higher resistance than a group caster could give them. If they were one of those guilds without energy shrines, yeah, that'd be ridiculous.

I'm not saying it's not a bad use of (other people's) time. Just that they probably didn't recall for +1 to hit. ;)

Guess what? Most clerics (and some Wizzys/sorcs and FvS...even Paladins) carry the spell resist energy. Not an excuse. And if they were the above class, shame on them. One of them should have been carrying it. It's one of the m ost important buffs in the game.

I personally hate ship buffs. It promotes laziness in some people and causes my questing time to go down because I have to wait for people. When people used House P buffs, they would stand by the guy who gave them out, and when the party was full, got them and hurried over to the quest.

I have decided NOT to have ship buffs on my Airship. At least the resistance ones. My guildwill not be the ones holding a party back, nor will they be the ones not self sufficant (or carrying the spell)

[Mercureal]

Guess what? Most clerics (and some Wizzys/sorcs and FvS...even Paladins) carry the spell resist energy. Not an excuse.

And rangers. And UMD characters with wands. Yeah, no excuse whatsoever...

[EllisDee37]

Guess what? Most clerics (and some Wizzys/sorcs and FvS...even Paladins) carry the spell resist energy. Not an excuse. And if they were the above class, shame on them. One of them should have been carrying it. It's one of the m ost important buffs in the game.As I understand it, you cannot get 30 points resists until you (or a party member) are level 11, with the sole exception being ship buffs.

I am a new player, and even I was really bothered (though remained silent about it) last week pugging a level 5 elite where everyone was denigrating the content for being insultingly easy while at the same time saying how of course you have to have 30 resists for it. (I think it was the house k one that ends with a fire elemental, not taming the flames but the level 5 one.)

The first time I ran that quest on elite at level it was with a former guildmate and we knew it would be a hard-fought challenge and indeed it was. We were forced to come up with tactics, we did, and finally succeeded. This whole ship buff resist thing really leaves me feeling cold. Having 30 resists below level 11 makes a mockery of half the content.

[jackabat]

Guess what? Most clerics (and some Wizzys/sorcs and FvS...even Paladins) carry the spell resist energy. Not an excuse. And if they were the above class, shame on them. One of them should have been carrying it. It's one of the m ost important buffs in the game.


I'm not exactly trying to excuse them, it's still stupid of them. I just think everyone's being a little hard on the noob for trying to keep themself alive in the best way they know how.

And before the caster hits level 11, it's 10 to 20 points less effective than the ship buff. Which can be enough to keep them alive, for spells with lots of repeated chunks of damage--scorching ray, firewall, lightning traps, accidental lava bath.

Yes, it's a lazy crutch, a waste of your time, and rude. Not gonna argue against that. It's just all the more responsible options for handling energy damage take more time, money, and player skill. New players aren't, in general, awash in any of those.

[PNellesen]

yea lame...I wonder if there was someone in the party that could buff them so they would not have to recall?


This reminds me of a recent quest I did on my Ranger - I had gotten a few buffs from our ship before joining (no resists) and while doing so the leader asks if anyone wanted an invite to his ship for all their buffs. I declined, then met up with them when we all gathered inside. Being new to the quest, I typed in party chat "Resists?" - meaning "What resists would we need" since, you know, I'm a Ranger and cast my own resists. The leader got EXTREMELY upset with me, berating me for not taking advantage of his ship, and that I should have brought pots with me to give to the casters in exchange, etc., etc. One of the other party members finally got a word in edgewise and said "He's a Ranger, he can cast his own resists" which calmed the leader down (guy was really good leader other than that outburst), but yeah, people forget that there ARE "non-spellcaster" classes out there who can do a lot of their own (and other people's) buffs without needing a ship ;)

[uhgungawa]

How Did We Ever Get Through The Days Before Airships? :rolleyes:

get Off My Lawn Boy !!!!!!! ;)

[badkhan]

I kind of blame ship buffs here. The +1 to arbitrary stat ones don't actually give a character that much greater power, but all the 30 point energy resists drastically increase a low-level character's survivability, letting them pretty much stand in elite traps. Lightning-bolt casting shamans go from deadly to laughable. Fireballs kind of sting a bit. Et cetera and so on.

And newer players have a much harder time finagling all the nice energy resist items themselves. I mean, it's possible, and sure they should do it. But ship buffs are a lot easier and cheaper to get. Like, ridiculously easier.


Agreed.

[arkonas]

if you are selfish enough to leave a quest because you need ship buffs or forgot potions or need your house p j buffs. then you will get the boot from me. only time i will ever accept a reentry in my quests if for some odd reason we wiped that will be the only time. if you leave it because it was easier to catch up to us or you got lost your getting booted and blacklisted.

Sorry there is no other reasons to reenter the quest and make others lose xp because you would not think or your selfish roles were too much

[Kale_Hagan]

I agree, people dying is a big problem in DDO and needs to be nipped in the bud!!!

Perhaps the devs could nerf dying so that when you go below -10 hit points you don't die anymore?

[Cauthey]

Again, 30 points of all energy resistance is almost certainly what they were after. And if I remember anything about VON, that's a useful buff, and possibly higher resistance than a group caster could give them. If they were one of those guilds without energy shrines, yeah, that'd be ridiculous.

I'm not saying it's not a bad use of (other people's) time. Just that they probably didn't recall for +1 to hit. ;)

I could have provided the Resist 30s. :p And, I assure you, the player that I am speaking of was CLEARLY taken by the +1 Bluff/Diplo/Intim/Search/Spot etc. that his character was NOT key for. :p

"Hey, why don't we recall for buffs?" would be acceptable, especially if asking a party of six. But putting on the brakes on an over-leveled loot raid seems to me to be a waste of time. Especially if it's communicated more as an order rather than as a "hey do you guys mind?"-type request.

[voodoogroves]

If I'm playing a non-teleporting character and join a group, I even feel self conscious heading to the airship to take the navigator because I don't want to slow folks down ...


Someone who recalled after dying for ship buffs would get a rather pointed explanation of why that was bad. If they were a jerk, I'd boot them. If they were new and didn't know, I'd tell them to stay outside and we'd complete without them, then run it again probably.

New and foolish can be corrected. Jerk ... not so much.

[moomooprincess]

Sadly, it is becoming more the norm in my opinion.

I don't need them.

I was doing an elite tempest spine in a PUG. One of my rare joining a PUG as I was on a character doing some maintenance, and I knew that character needed SPINE on elite.

I do not have guild buffs. But I was able to wait 10 - 15 minutes while others had to go get them. I was the lowest level yet I am the one that goes back to get the forgotten shards. The others were just too uber to do that.

My favorite is when they die, the almost always say, "There went my ship buffs. Can you buff me?" Where are your 20% potions? Or your clickies? Or your potions of protection? All easily attainable.

[azmodeus1]

never had this happen in a party, but...

i use it all the time after quests. /dreath, spawn point at the twelve, and you're in your ship buffing up faster than a mage with teleport. i do this all the time after every quest, and to even change zones. /death, into airship, and tele to wherever im going.

[morticianjohn]

It almost never comes up so I'm not 100% sure but I think that re entry has changed so that it only penalizes the xp of the individual and not the party.

I'm not saying that it's ok to recall for ship buffs and I probably wouldn't wait up for the person who recalled however, it makes it less of an issue and I personally wouldn't mind. In some cases it's actually faster to recall, buff, and come back than it will be to wait for everyone to clear to the next shrine.

edit: Ok a 10% bonus. NVM it used to show up as a -10% for the party as soon as the person re entered now it shows up as a persistance bonus +10% if no one re enters but it only shows up once the quest is complete which is why I didn't think there was a penalty to the party anymore.

[EllisDee37]

I've never understood why the forums consider reentry to be such a mortal sin. I always check the xp log after someone reenters and I never show a penalty unless it was me who reentered. It only ever happens from a death so the +10% perfect run bonus is already lost anyway.

This pervading attitude on the forums about reentry is really offputting. It seems to be nothing more than elitism for the sake of elitism and nothing else.

[thakorian]

I've never understood why the forums consider reentry to be such a mortal sin. I always check the xp log after someone reenters and I never show a penalty unless it was me who reentered. It only ever happens from a death so the +10% perfect run bonus is already lost anyway.

This pervading attitude on the forums about reentry is really offputting. It seems to be nothing more than elitism for the sake of elitism and nothing else.

Actually, the "no re-entry"- and the "no deaths"-bonus are separate. Both are 10%. Might wanna check the xp log a bit more thorough next time :)

[Blank_Zero]

Oops! My fingers slipped...

[EllisDee37]

nvm

[zebidos]

Just playing devils advocate here, but what if that player had run into various divine or arcane casters that refused to offer a energy resist or protection from elements.

I have run into that ages ago when doing temptest spine, someone didn't have fire resist at the start and they got lambasted for not getting as fire resist buff from the ship first.

[Maugrim101]

Random player : Ooops, I died. Recalling for ship buffs
Me : Star
Me : Star
Me : STAR!
Random player has been dismissed for your group.

Profit.

Joking aside, I've never seen this happen and I've seen all kinds of silly goose antics in PUGs.

[grayham]

/rant on

I echo the sentiments of "whatever did we do before shipbuffs?!"

I have to suppress a shudder of irritation whenever I hear 'brt grabbing buffs', most particularly if we're waiting on the named individual to start. Yes they are useful, and it's no drama if you're stood around waiting for a Raid or small group to fill, but it's just part of the 'getting ready' process that should be done before you group. So what if your buffs only have 37 minutes left?! Which quests, in all seriousness take that long?? Is it acceptable to say

-BRT just buying better gear from the AH
-BRT just buying various pots
-BRT just choosing my enhancements

?

So to my mind it should be done before you click 'join', as others have said.

/rant off

[Uska]

I've never understood why the forums consider reentry to be such a mortal sin. I always check the xp log after someone reenters and I never show a penalty unless it was me who reentered. It only ever happens from a death so the +10% perfect run bonus is already lost anyway.

This pervading attitude on the forums about reentry is really offputting. It seems to be nothing more than elitism for the sake of elitism and nothing else.

its not so much the hit for reentering its the time for them to go and come back aggervates the hell out of me but so does waiting for someone who after joining says let me ship buff especially if we are all iln amarath and they want to run back and buff and as to your example you lose the 10% bonus and the 10% no reentry bonus so you lose 20% where if they stayed you would only lose the 10

[grayham]

I've never understood why the forums consider reentry to be such a mortal sin. I always check the xp log after someone reenters and I never show a penalty unless it was me who reentered. It only ever happens from a death so the +10% perfect run bonus is already lost anyway.

This pervading attitude on the forums about reentry is really offputting. It seems to be nothing more than elitism for the sake of elitism and nothing else.

I think it comes down to the mentality of the group you're playing with. For players not feeling pressured by time then there's no problem, but for groups wanting to move quickly then someone exiting is not helping with the quest, thus making life more difficult, particularly if they're a healer. If the group decide to wait for you then it's holding everyone up and impacting on their time.

(prepares himself for shouts of 'scandal!' and 'fool!' but I don't believe that ship-buffs for 1-2 players in a party will make or break a quest-with 1 or 2 tiny exceptions early on. If you're failing a quest then chances are that your strategy/build/gear/teamwork is the problem, not a few boosted stats.

[Vaayne]

---Other things that bug me aside from re-upping ship buffs-----
1. Oh? We are about to kill the boss? Bio-break everyone!
---No! I don't care that you have to pee, hold it or just go to the bathroom. It Does Not Need A Special Name!

2. *part-way through a chain(any chain)* Person that just entered party, "Hi, can you share the quest?" Other party members, "Sure but we are in a chain, hence the word chain at the LFM. So... It might not work. Did you get it?" Person that just entered party, "Hey send the quest please." "Send Quest." "I don't know where to go please send the quest."

3. A person that asks for EVERYTHING!!!!11!!! Hey does anyone have festival coins they don't want? Does anyone have and mnemonic pots? Do you have a greatsword? Because my level 7 fighter is still using my awesome starter fire-touch great sword.

4. People who have to constantly say "stay a group. wait for john. where is everyone. follow me. go here. go there. do this. don't do this. finish out. don't finish out." I get it you are the leader and we should do everything you say we are all children in your wondrous infinite knowledge. I'm sorry that I learn better by experiencing things in my own way and that it wasn't your way. I hope one day I, a 23 year old on the verge of spontaneous combustion can go up to be just like you. Oh? your twelve? well hows puberty treating you?

[morticianjohn]

Let's say everyone in the party is either lvl 12 or 20 doing coal chamber for ingredients (so no one is getting XP). You've left the shrine and were not planning on going back to it. No one has a raise dead clicky but most are self healing anyway. One guy dies. Rather than have a member of the party run him back to the shrine he recalls out "for ship buffs".

Kick, squelch, blacklist or just continue the quest he's probably saving you time by not making you run him to the shrine?