My take on PUGS as of late.

[Beer_Dude]

Rather than hijacking the other threads I figured I'd start my own.

I've been in the process of Tr ing all 17 of my toons two at a time. The last few TRs I either ran solo or duo with my RL buddy Rick or one or two of the other friends I have on here until I was high enough to hit Vale, then I'd start pugging. The two toons I'm TR ing now are Sierra Nevada (level 17) Disavowed (level 13). When Sierra hit level 8 I decided I would start pugging again.

Here's what I found. If I join an LFM I'm usually in for a mediocre group at best. It seems like the people putting up the LFMs these days know just enough to prove how stupid they really are. Example. Disavowed is on his second life as a wiz rogue and had a 54 disable at level 12. LFM up for Von 3 speed run on hard. I had solo'd hard already but needed the XP and wanted the company (I know no big deal to solo it). Leader is an AA I hit join she sends tell I'm sorry but I need a trap person. My reply. Look at the build there isn't a rogue out there with a higher disable at this level. She reluctantly accepts.

During the quest we get to hear about her brag to the male members (who of course are in heat because they're running with a female who will talk to them) of the party about how popular she is and how many people are asking her to run Shroud instead of the Von run she's in as if we should feel privelaged to run with her. I take down the traps and try to explain to her why a wiz rougue has a higher disable than a rogue. She can't own up to being wrong and says most wiz rogues can't do that it's only because I'm a TR that I can. Later she gets blinded and begs for a remove blindness from the cleric. I tell her that's what pots are for. She says no that's what blindness ward goggles are for. My reply. They don't seem to be working too well right now do they? I tell her. You should always carry pots at this level. You should have enough money to afford them even if you're new at this level. Which leads to how she's not new and knows the game very well as she's been playing for many months.

It seems like almost every pug I join on any toon is the same thing. Leader of a different PUG (Shroud). "We better wait for a barbarian or fighter or we're not going to be able to do this". Me. Dude it's only Shroud on normal and casters/healers now do as much damage as melees in here with DOTs. Just take the 1st 12 we'll be fine. No we don't have any fighters or barbarians we'll fail. OK your group let's just sit here forever until we fill. I'll go get a beer while we wait. Of course we fill and funny enough both fighters perma decon after portal 3 in pt 1. We finish Harry in 1 round anyway. Needless to say I made it known we couldn't finish w/o a fighter or barb :). So the leader (a healer) and her RL B/F (a pally) rage quit going into part 5. We smoke it as well. But we needed fighters and barbs. Monks, rangers, rogues, bards, casters, etc. just wouldn't cut it. Go figure.

On the flip side more than 90% of the time I PUG I put up the LFM. It always say quest XYZ speed run newbies welcome if you don't know quest have sound I'll teach it to you. Two things I've noticed. 1. Mostly vets join LOL. 2. The one or two newbies that join instantly speak up and say "I'm one of those newbies and I'd love it if you'd show me how to do this quest". Runs go off without a hitch and the newbie learns something.

The difference IMO is what I stated above. Those that have been on here 4-6 months know just enough to think they know it all, but most of them don't know squat. The very new people are total spounges and want any help, advice, and info you're willing to give them. I think the key is to have the newbie player that doesn't know the quest have sound. The only time this backfired on me was in Madstone elite. Sorc didn't have sound but said he new quest. Not only did he not have sound. He didn't have haste, charm, rage, fog, web, firewall, DDoor, or any other spells that dish out damage. In fact he went the entire quest w/o casting a single spell. He never shrined and ended the quest with the only lost mana from the 7 deaths he had as a result from when he kept getting lost.

I'm tired of selling myself to some 6 month tard player with the star as I wait for him to My DDO me for a VON 3 run on normal when I could solo it anyway. By the time the quest is over me and the one other vet (if I'm lucky enough to join a run with another vet in the group) have done 95% of the work including healing and raising when we're not even on toons built for that. So my take on pugs. I'm loving them when it's my star or a person who I know has the star and they put up an LFM explaining what's expected. When I reluctantly join a strangers LFM I make sure I'm in a good mood and have an open mind.

As for the 4-6 month players that don't fall into this category. Props to you for taking the time to learn the game and continuing to learn instead of acting like you know it all because you've capped a toon.

[Galeria]

Kudos to you for inviting new players to run with you. If more people did that, the game would be better for everyone.

:-)

[Mithran]

People coming here from other games haven't realized how flexible this Character Creation system is.

[Milfeulle]

Pugging is too dangerous these days, I don't mind newbie pike a run or two to learn the quest, but there's a bunch of people who refuse to learn.
All they do is "share plz" "which house" "we running on h/e?" "ding ding ding".

[camels]

one of these days i hope to see you rip a noob in half.

/sigh

one of these days...........

[Beer_Dude]

Kudos to you for inviting new players to run with you. If more people did that, the game would be better for everyone.

:-)

I found that if they have sound it's only slowing me up at most 5 minutes as I stop to explain map, puzzles etc. What I find in exchange is that if we're doing the quest multiple times I get that time back and then some as I don't have to do everything and can assign the newbie to do something and they seem to always be eager to try their new found skill.

Crucible is a perfect example of that. I will take all the new people on the swim on a normal run that don't know how to do it. Evasion or not, healer caster, I don't care you're going. You can do the swim dead or alive either way you still do it the same way. I'll get the stones from those that die and res them at the horn. If they didn't die then they know the safe and correct way to do it. If they did die they're with me and they see how I do it and do it at the same time. There's only 2 places on that swim that you even have to make a reflex save. Heck someone may even know a path with zero reflex saves. After 5 years of playing cutting it down to 2 saves is the best I can do.

Mithran I totally agree with you it just sucks that people can't open their minds and look at it as just numbers.

Milf I agree with you if it comes down to a pug I'm joining as I stated above me and whatever other vet is in their end up carrying stones and doing most of the work.

John that's already happened and you were there for it. Drunken raid night and The Beergirl was so drunk she hit the alter to part 5 early. Noob started cussing at her and calling her an idiot in text. Me you and everyone else in their ripped his head off as we explained to him that it's DRUNKEN raid runs for a reason. Speaking of which. New LFM is about to go up.

[augie]

I think the potion thing is my biggest, longest-lasting gripe. Why people can’t spare 5 or 6 inventory spots for stacks of poison/curse/disease/restore/blind pots is beyond me. And if it were up to me, I’d remove those same potions from the guild vendors just so that the self-only usage is gone from the game.

Along the same lines, they should create some one-time-only quest on Korthos where you have to hot-bar a quest-provided potion to use on an NPC to finish a quest so people understand how to use them on others. Maybe spot em another Starter Siberys Spirit Cake (one that doesn't cost a ******** 5 TP) for their troubles.

[Rydin_Dirtay]

Along the same lines, they should create some one-time-only quest on Korthos where you have to hot-bar a quest-provided potion to use on an NPC to finish a quest so people understand how to use them on others. Maybe spot em another Starter Siberys Spirit Cake (one that doesn't cost a ******** 5 TP) for their troubles.


Now that would be a GREAT idea. It would get people used to using hotbars, too.

[Blank_Zero]

I spent almost 6 months trying to cap Smrti the first time. She's not my first ever toon, but was my first "serious toon".

I learned a lot through soloing. Most pugs don't seem to get that if you have a bit of skill and some curatives, you can solo 95% of non-raid content, and about 50% of the raids depending on your class. Grouping is supposed to mean easier completions/socialization, not "let me drag these other 5 through slower than I could have soloed this".

My biggest thing is that most players REFUSE to read the forums. I ask people if they do, and I get told "I don't need them. I'm fine." It's ridiculous to me. But then again, I'm a socialite lol.

[taurean430]

Had the pleasure of running with you on my underequipped bard through Tor. It was fun, like always.

Know what I like to see the most? People actually making sure they are in song range long enough for me to give them bonuses to hit and damage/displacement/blur/etc... It becoming rare these days. And that's disappointing to a guy who rolled up a toon with the intent of boosting everyone around them.

Pugging that toon to lvl 18 has been tough. I still am learning things about the game, but the lack of actual game knowledge out there is back to being staggering. Or leading far and away in kills on a bard that is welding +1 weapons. That scares me some.

I'm still working on a number of my builds. Many of them have TR's to go. I'll keep an eye out for your runs.

[Beer_Dude]

My biggest thing is that most players REFUSE to read the forums. I ask people if they do, and I get told "I don't need them. I'm fine." It's ridiculous to me. But then again, I'm a socialite lol.

I always try to refer people to the forums for info. Just like you not too many will do so. It makes me furious. Those that know me know what I really wanted to say but I don't want to catch a profanity infraction.

[Aurora_nyx]

I've had a pretty interesting time pugging my new cleric this past week. I've managed to add a few special people to my list. Had a squishy fighter challenge me to a pvp match because I said I wouldn't heal stupid. And of course there was this bard who ended up farming von 3 with us... I finally got to run with Hordo! (It was an absolute blast, and he gave me piking tips)

As for the pugs themselves.. I've noticed the braggy 14-20 yo boys who know EVERYTHING and are the most uber awesum thing evar...who are cool and insult me in group chat because I'm female then hit on me in tells (they occupy most spots on my squelch list) New people who are glad for any help you can offer them. Female players who actually admit to being female because there's another girl talking. And I've even met a few who are on my friends list now because we had an awesome time running whatever it was. I also met one person who said my bloodplate armor was out of style...I am still coming to terms with being unfashionable

[Beer_Dude]

Had the pleasure of running with you on my underequipped bard through Tor. It was fun, like always.

Know what I like to see the most? People actually making sure they are in song range long enough for me to give them bonuses to hit and damage/displacement/blur/etc... It becoming rare these days. And that's disappointing to a guy who rolled up a toon with the intent of boosting everyone around them.

Pugging that toon to lvl 18 has been tough. I still am learning things about the game, but the lack of actual game knowledge out there is back to being staggering. Or leading far and away in kills on a bard that is welding +1 weapons. That scares me some.

I'm still working on a number of my builds. Many of them have TR's to go. I'll keep an eye out for your runs.

Hit me up Sierra Nevada is heading to the Vale this week. Rick & I were just talking about how Disavowed and his toon are almost caught up level wise to his other toon and Sierra so we need to change our focus for a bit. It's always fun having you along and it will give us more of a reason to get back on those toons.

[Beer_Dude]

I've had a pretty interesting time pugging my new cleric this past week. I've managed to add a few special people to my list. Had a squishy fighter challenge me to a pvp match because I said I wouldn't heal stupid. And of course there was this bard who ended up farming von 3 with us... I finally got to run with Hordo! (It was an absolute blast, and he gave me piking tips)

As for the pugs themselves.. I've noticed the braggy 14-20 yo boys who know EVERYTHING and are the most uber awesum thing evar...who are cool and insult me in group chat because I'm female then hit on me in tells (they occupy most spots on my squelch list) New people who are glad for any help you can offer them. Female players who actually admit to being female because there's another girl talking. And I've even met a few who are on my friends list now because we had an awesome time running whatever it was. I also met one person who said my bloodplate armor was out of style...I am still coming to terms with being unfashionable

For making me laugh about the Bloodplate thing.

[kazeikan]

Dual-boxing is the greatest thing ever. Now I won't have to pug ever from 1-20, except when I desire company. I remember many of times posting lfm's hoping for one competent person that would help me hold window whether for stk, deleras, ww, shadow crypt or sorrowdusk. Now this is never a problem. For all you serious tr's, dual-boxing is a great investment.

[scottmike0]

im probably one of the noobs who never carry potions of any kind correct me if im wrong. xD
tipically if i wanted a heal i would paitronize a cleric to heal me. and yes i bet i spell that pat word wrong. :P


__________________
i hate typing in grammer so i only do it when im typing a paper or something severly important.
DDo is a game for fun not for boring people who always type grammerly :P

[Mackem]

Those that have been on here 4-6 months know just enough to think they know it all, but most of them don't know squat.

I've been here for almost 2 years and STILL dont know squat.

You have to run quest more than a few times to know it well, you have to run a class/build to a cap and play it there for "some" time to "really" know how it works.

And there are so many quests/classes/builds in DDO that every time you run your new char/TR/whatever to a cap again, you would still come across stuff which is new to you.

[camels]

I am still coming to terms with being unfashionable

everybody knows looking cool is the ONLY thing that matters in DDO.
:)

[Blank_Zero]

I've had a pretty interesting time pugging my new cleric this past week. I've managed to add a few special people to my list. Had a squishy fighter challenge me to a pvp match because I said I wouldn't heal stupid. And of course there was this bard who ended up farming von 3 with us... I finally got to run with Hordo! (It was an absolute blast, and he gave me piking tips)

As for the pugs themselves.. I've noticed the braggy 14-20 yo boys who know EVERYTHING and are the most uber awesum thing evar...who are cool and insult me in group chat because I'm female then hit on me in tells (they occupy most spots on my squelch list) New people who are glad for any help you can offer them. Female players who actually admit to being female because there's another girl talking. And I've even met a few who are on my friends list now because we had an awesome time running whatever it was. I also met one person who said my bloodplate armor was out of style...I am still coming to terms with being unfashionable

Awww, but I thought you liked getting hit on? :D

[jcoffey]

While you have a lot of options for characters what DDO doesn't have is viability for those multi-classed options.
Use Arcane Archer Rangers for example,there is a reason you don't see many of them end game because if you don't make a certain spec end/high level will make you the red headed step child.

I understand redundancy is part of any MMO but my gosh DDO is one of the worst,imo of course.

[Aurora_nyx]

Awww, but I thought you liked getting hit on? :D

I'm fussy about who gets to hit on me :p




everybody knows looking cool is the ONLY thing that matters in DDO.

lol... I have to look good... It is a requirement

[Blank_Zero]

I'm fussy about who gets to hit on me :p

That is fair :)

[mournbladereigns]

I'd still rather run with a chick than a crusty old dude:)

[Nysrock]

Different server but I feel your pain.

Running a fast Framework the other day. We weren't going for max xp just a completion. Everything was going smoothly when, after we kill the boss, we try to find out who had the wand to stone the 1 minotaur needed to complete. We finally find out the cleric has it yet he keeps saying he never got it. 25 minutes later we finally convince him to re-log and, lo and behold, as soon as he disconnects the wand drops from his grubby little hands.

So if any of the newbies out there actually read the forums here is an important tip....If you don't know the quest DO NOT talk to any NPCs, pick up any objects, pull any levers or do anything else that might cause the quest to fail. Just ask and I am sure someone will explain it to you in detail.

[Miahoo]

Nice stories Eric, +1 :)

DDO is like real life:
- As a newborn baby u're listening to the olders and learn anything you can.
- Then you grow up a little into a teenager screwing everything in your way.
- Finally you grow up more, learning from your mistakes and willing to listen again to the more experience people.

[Mithran]

It's probably a function of it being the summer months, but some of the play quality has gotten ridiculous. I join a pug for Monastery (I'm the fifth to join) on my Ranger 16/Paladin 2 and a capped Ranger joins. Four go into the circuit for traps/scorpions and I go to solo the doors and the Ranger follows me. Fedaykin is a TR'd character, but even so, she's not capped.

Well, if you're following me, you'd better be able to take care of yourself. I go through the pairs of Wizard/Clerics with their pet scorpions and notice that she isn't healing herself as we make our way between encounters. No wands on a Ranger? Really? Well, it didn't take long for her to eventually run out of health.

This character is in Dragontouched Robes, and he/she still doesn't realize that Rangers can use CSW wands? It's not unusual for me to outkill another character (even two levels higher than me), or even to have higher Saves (that's what my girls are usually built for), but the Shamequit was Fast.

[Nysrock]

It's probably a function of it being the summer months, but some of the play quality has gotten ridiculous. I join a pug for Monastery (I'm the fifth to join) on my Ranger 16/Paladin 2 and a capped Ranger joins. Four go into the circuit for traps/scorpions and I go to solo the doors and the Ranger follows me. Fedaykin is a TR'd character, but even so, she's not capped.

Well, if you're following me, you'd better be able to take care of yourself. I go through the pairs of Wizard/Clerics with their pet scorpions and notice that she isn't healing herself as we make our way between encounters. No wands on a Ranger? Really? Well, it didn't take long for her to eventually run out of health.

This character is in Dragontouched Robes, and he/she still doesn't realize that Rangers can use CSW wands? It's not unusual for me to outkill another character (even two levels higher than me), or even to have higher Saves (that's what my girls are usually built for), but the Shamequit was Fast.

It does seem to be a common trend lately for people in PUGs to carry no CSW wands and/or pots. Beyond just being able to help the cleric out by healing yourself between battles it is always a good idea in case said cleric gets 1 shotted and you have to survive until you can get him to a shrine.

I think too many people are using hirelings and forgetting that players are not their own personal healbot. If you want a healbot then just solo with a hireling and lay off the PUGs.

[jcoffey]

I think a lot of people obviously came from other MMOPG's where each had a role,the clerics healed while the DPS did the DPS,etc.
That is probably why some peeps don't bring healing wands or pots as they shouldn't have too if people are doing thier job/role.
Now common sense tells you to bring pots or wands if you can use them as healing or curing yourself is always a plus or in case of emergency,etc.
But then there are some that just don't get it lol

[Lyzern]

PUGs... The forever doomed way to run dungeons.

People need to understand there's all sorts of different people, not everyone is equal and when you create/join a PUG you MUST understand that it won't run as you want, someone will always cause some trouble and ruin the quest for some reason and it won't change, all you can do is try to help them or laugh at them and just take the penalty like a man, otherwise, you're better off soloing.

[Terebinthia]

I came across a TR in Shroud the other day that I know for a fact has other capped toons who couldn't do a 4 by 4, unlock doors as a rogue (he reluctantly did eventually) and then whined for a poison because they had no pots.

I was just plain embarrassed.

Levelling a FvS again and I'm afraid I'm just booting the "share plz" people.

I don't mind not knowing. I was horribly gimp when I started and only really improved when I met a good player in a PUG who mentored me. I'm an information sponge and a forum junkie and I know for sure there's still lots of the game I don't understand.

But I get incensed with the "won't help myself won't learn carry me through quest plz" crew.

I'm thinking of levelling up my hubby's FTP cleric as far as I can just to prove it can be done at some point.

[NaturalHazard]

What you said about shroud reminds me of a run I had a couple of nights ago. I had seen a shroud lfm up for a long time, I saw that the guy was on his 20th run and **** they dont have bard highlighted so, i would have to make my own lfm, geez not many people interested in running a shroud it seems, so i was expecting it to take forever to fill. We filled in under 2 minutes, i was shocked, apparently this guy had been turning people away in droves and when they saw my lfm they came over, even quite a few people in his group left his to come to mine.

ended up with 4 arcanes and 3 divines and only 1 fighter 1 barberian, I dont really care I just make sure we have 2 divines then take who ever or if we have someone to solo heal not even that. Well the run went pretty fast. We completed in 27 minutes and it prob would of been a lot faster if we didnt stop to loot, shrine and wait for someone who had dced.

And we had a good laugh at that guys lfm, it was still up as we where stepping into part 4:D.

[Feralthyrtiaq]

Got PUG? I've experienced a lot of good and bad in this game. The bad seems common place and we all have to deal with in some form or another. Still love it.

I am a VIP, started this MMO version of D&D in September of 2009. Have played PnP D&D since 1983 and DMd many many campaigns.

After playing for a month my GF started her VIP account. A couple months later we both joined the Mature Adventurers Club. I enjoyed the non-stop group opportunities and fast pace afforded by experienced players in a larger guild. This didn't fit her playstyle. So...she starts her own guild Pandora's Box. Pandora's is now guild level 56. Our ship is purchased and stocked. My GF had to stop playing for financial reasons and transfered guild leadership to me. I very rarely see any guild mates on. I am the only regular player on nearly every nite. There may be 7 or 8 accounts total in PB.

Guild Leader Thaumat Gyre Lvl 3 2nd Life TR Wizard
Main Alts
Mokune Gane 2nd Life TR 2Ftr/6Pal/10Mnk Helf with FVS dille
Returning 2nd Life TR 1Mnk/18Rgu Horc UA Assassin
Ketzerisch Kindjal 16 Rgu Drow Assassin
Koanoak Soaos Lvl 20 Drow Cleric

Other Alts (Mainly created to run with my GF as she figured out the game and what she wanted to play)
Tosane 14 AM Dwarf Wiz
Tuathynn 13 AA Elf Rngr
Thyrtiaq 10 Horc Ftr
Kratchit 9 Virtuoso Helf Bard

1 Mule
Kornbeef 1Ftr/1Wiz/2FVS Horc

I am still an active member in Mature Adventurers Club too.

Xhiron Rhex 2nd Life capped TR Monk
Iquitz Mokune FVS 20

See you in game!

[BluWaterSeaWitch]

I have learned the wonderful world of pugs, most people that know me know I am lost oh about 80% of the time, no really I have gps on my phone and use it because I have a terrible sense of direction. I decided this time I was going to go slower and try and learn the quests (everyone has them memorized and I usually end up running behind) because of that I rarely have them memorized beyond level the marketplace. I have to say I still don’t know most of the quests, but I try and in a pug group that is really all that matters to me.

On my divine it has been slow and painful, I have soloed or ran with a friend, but once I reached high enough I started joining pugs, some have been great and some well …. But then I take everything as a learning experience.

Eric you have taught me shroud puzzles without an in game solver, it may take me 4 times but I do it every time, I just don’t seem to be able to connect with you enough to learn more.

Cal started “teach me this quest” it was a great tool, harder for me because of the time zone but I did manage to make one, and I would suggest anyone run one if you can.

I was in Dreaming Dark last night with 3 friends the rest pugged, at the end fight the wiz had agro.. Not an issue just run him to a pillar and let the dps have at it when he’s blocked in, but he wouldn’t listen an just ran in circles and more circles .. A fight that should have taken 2 minutes took almost 10..

I read the forums at work most of the time, but how many people really don’t think the forums are a good tool, or even bother to post or read them?

[Battlehawke]

In the Summer there tends to be a lot of new younger players. Not only that, you clearly have a lot of experience. I feel the same way, but you just have to remember that you do have better builds with tweaked out gear that are stocked to the gills. You have done some of these quests hundreds of times. I Bulldoze through those quests, and let everyone in. Sometimes you get a really bad one, you just keep grinding. Don't let it become personal.

[Beer_Dude]

In the Summer there tends to be a lot of new younger players. Not only that, you clearly have a lot of experience. I feel the same way, but you just have to remember that you do have better builds with tweaked out gear that are stocked to the gills. You have done some of these quests hundreds of times. I Bulldoze through those quests, and let everyone in. Sometimes you get a really bad one, you just keep grinding. Don't let it become personal.

I don't take it personal at all. It wasn't personal it's a lack of knowledge on a certain player base that's starting to trend. It was acompliment to the newer players out there more than anything. My pug experience as of late has been grwat when I have the star and put my expectations of someone new to the quest having sound so I can teach them the quest. That way they will know it in the future. My only gripe is the 4-6 month player who thinks he knows everything in the game because they've capped one toon in that 4-6 months. When the fact is they don't know squat. Again this isn't every 4-6 moth player but it sure seems to be the majority of them.

In other words when Mr./Mrs. 4-6 month player has an LFM up for crucible asking for a swimmer and I ask to fill that spot with my non evasion healebot cleric or my 6 dex fighter. Along with the tell asking to fill said spot I let the leader know that I've been playing for 5+ years and can do the swim blindfolded on elite with any of my toons. Said 4-6 month leader should open up his her mind and instead of saying that's impossible justr because you can't do it doesn't mean that those of us who've done it 1000 times can't. Again they know just enough not to know squat.

Again this wan't a gripe but a compliment to the newbies who put their ego in check and want to learn the game. Something the 4-6 month player should learn from the newbies.

This wasn't a slam on you either Battle just clarify my point in case it didn't come accross as intended.

[Eladiun]

Different server but I feel your pain.

Running a fast Framework the other day. We weren't going for max xp just a completion. Everything was going smoothly when, after we kill the boss, we try to find out who had the wand to stone the 1 minotaur needed to complete. We finally find out the cleric has it yet he keeps saying he never got it. 25 minutes later we finally convince him to re-log and, lo and behold, as soon as he disconnects the wand drops from his grubby little hands.

So if any of the newbies out there actually read the forums here is an important tip....If you don't know the quest DO NOT talk to any NPCs, pick up any objects, pull any levers or do anything else that might cause the quest to fail. Just ask and I am sure someone will explain it to you in detail.

I'm having VoN 5 flashbacks and twitching in my chair.

[Beer_Dude]

I have learned the wonderful world of pugs, most people that know me know I am lost oh about 80% of the time, no really I have gps on my phone and use it because I have a terrible sense of direction. I decided this time I was going to go slower and try and learn the quests (everyone has them memorized and I usually end up running behind) because of that I rarely have them memorized beyond level the marketplace. I have to say I still don’t know most of the quests, but I try and in a pug group that is really all that matters to me.

On my divine it has been slow and painful, I have soloed or ran with a friend, but once I reached high enough I started joining pugs, some have been great and some well …. But then I take everything as a learning experience.

Eric you have taught me shroud puzzles without an in game solver, it may take me 4 times but I do it every time, I just don’t seem to be able to connect with you enough to learn more.

Cal started “teach me this quest” it was a great tool, harder for me because of the time zone but I did manage to make one, and I would suggest anyone run one if you can.

I was in Dreaming Dark last night with 3 friends the rest pugged, at the end fight the wiz had agro.. Not an issue just run him to a pillar and let the dps have at it when he’s blocked in, but he wouldn’t listen an just ran in circles and more circles .. A fight that should have taken 2 minutes took almost 10..

I read the forums at work most of the time, but how many people really don’t think the forums are a good tool, or even bother to post or read them?

You probably aren't catching how to do the 3x3's because whenever I'm teaching you it's in the drunken raid runs and we're tanked. So while we have a moment of clarity let's explain it.

Do the 3x3 just like the 4x4. Chase the lights to the bottom just like in the 4x4 if it isn't solved reverse the direction and chase the lights back down again. In other words what was the bottom is now the top and just chase it down again. If it doesn't solve reverse it again and chase the lights down. It will always solve on the 3rd time every time if it didn't do it on the 1st or 2nd try. I can't teach a 5x5 I can only do it in my head. But at least chase down the 5x5 like the 3x3 to the bottom. Most of us that solve it in our heads chase it to the bottom so use get the formula to solve it so you've at least done half the work for us.

Now if it's the circle well that's entirely different. You have to treat it like it's a square buit it's really a circle. :) Those that don't know this is an inside joke so take it for what it's worth if you don't know what we're talking about.

[Beer_Dude]

Nice stories Eric, +1 :)

DDO is like real life:
- As a newborn baby u're listening to the olders and learn anything you can.
- Then you grow up a little into a teenager screwing everything in your way.
- Finally you grow up more, learning from your mistakes and willing to listen again to the more experience people.

I love the analogy. You couldn't have explained it better +1 back at you.

[Battlehawke]

No, trust me, I feel your pain. For the first year I only played one toon, a cleric, and all I knew how to do was heal, and then I started rolling other toons, and I had NO CLUE, but, hey, I thought I did. I build pretty good healers, TWFs Rogues and Pallies. With the huge nerf to TWF I started building Sword and Board Intims, but a nice change their too. So, I've been playing with THF just for a change. What I'm starting to learn is that I didn't know much about THF builds even though I've played for six years. I'm really starting to learn a lot about THF builds and really enjoying them. Also, as I get older, and listen to my "know it all children" I learn more that people for the most part are all the same. PUGs have changed dramatically over the years..... We all have a hard time admitting that we don't know something..

[BluWaterSeaWitch]

Beer Dude,

I think your already drinking, I said I always get it, it might take a few tries, but I was saying because of how you taught me I do get it ;) and yes I have heard the circle/square story... we all have had some priceless moments in drunk shroud.. wait not me :)

[Beer_Dude]

Beer Dude,

I think your already drinking, I said I always get it, it might take a few tries, but I was saying because of how you taught me I do get it ;) and yes I have heard the circle/square story... we all have had some priceless moments in drunk shroud.. wait not me :)

I read that wrong. My bad.

[NaturalHazard]

I don't take it personal at all. It wasn't personal it's a lack of knowledge on a certain player base that's starting to trend. It was acompliment to the newer players out there more than anything. My pug experience as of late has been grwat when I have the star and put my expectations of someone new to the quest having sound so I can teach them the quest. That way they will know it in the future. My only gripe is the 4-6 month player who thinks he knows everything in the game because they've capped one toon in that 4-6 months. When the fact is they don't know squat. Again this isn't every 4-6 moth player but it sure seems to be the majority of them.

In other words when Mr./Mrs. 4-6 month player has an LFM up for crucible asking for a swimmer and I ask to fill that spot with my non evasion healebot cleric or my 6 dex fighter. Along with the tell asking to fill said spot I let the leader know that I've been playing for 5+ years and can do the swim blindfolded on elite with any of my toons. Said 4-6 month leader should open up his her mind and instead of saying that's impossible justr because you can't do it doesn't mean that those of us who've done it 1000 times can't. Again they know just enough not to know squat.

Again this wan't a gripe but a compliment to the newbies who put their ego in check and want to learn the game. Something the 4-6 month player should learn from the newbies.

This wasn't a slam on you either Battle just clarify my point in case it didn't come accross as intended.

Are these like the players that tell me I cant do shroud without *tanks* and that a rogue splashed toon cant do traps in sins normal?

[flynnjsw]

Beer Dude,

I think your already drinking, I said I always get it, it might take a few tries, but I was saying because of how you taught me I do get it ;) and yes I have heard the circle/square story... we all have had some priceless moments in drunk shroud.. wait not me :)

No not you, not ever :P

[flynnjsw]

Are these like the players that tell me I cant do shroud without *tanks* and that a rogue splashed toon cant do traps in sins normal?

It's kind of like a Party Leader for a VoD I tried to join on Marn. They MyDDO'd me and because I didn't have any Ardor/Potency items equipped, they gave me the third degree. They eventually said that the reason they were grilling me was because the DPS they had wasn't that great so they were being picky on the healers. I had to walk away at that point. A guildie ended up joining though and amazingly enough...it failed.

[Beer_Dude]

Are these like the players that tell me I cant do shroud without *tanks* and that a rogue splashed toon cant do traps in sins normal?

Those are the ones.

[Zigana]

While you have a lot of options for characters what DDO doesn't have is viability for those multi-classed options.
Use Arcane Archer Rangers for example,there is a reason you don't see many of them end game because if you don't make a certain spec end/high level will make you the red headed step child.


I can't say I agree with you here. There's only one option if you want the most uberest, maxed out, brag about toon--but why does every toon need to be built to be that? Some of my more gimpier toons are the most fun ones to play, and they still get the job done. Having an "oh sh**" moment where you don't know if you'll pull through is much more fun to me than the super smooth runs that have you yawning all the way through.

I just had an argument about this last night over my FVS. Was told that AoV is the only viable option for FVS now. I have 3 FVS toons, 1 of which is absolutely taking the AoV prestige. 1 other one might, haven't totally decided what to do with her yet. And then my WF that is sticking with the Lord Of Bladesesque type build. Maybe the LoB build won't be as uber as it would have been if I had decided to switch it to AoV, but it doesn't make him any less fun to play and he can still hold his own. Variety is the spice of life? It holds true in DDO as well.

[Khybes_Theo]

I can't say I agree with you here. There's only one option if you want the most uberest, maxed out, brag about toon--but why does every toon need to be built to be that? Some of my more gimpier toons are the most fun ones to play, and they still get the job done. Having an "oh sh**" moment where you don't know if you'll pull through is much more fun to me than the super smooth runs that have you yawning all the way through.

I just had an argument about this last night over my FVS. Was told that AoV is the only viable option for FVS now. I have 3 FVS toons, 1 of which is absolutely taking the AoV prestige. 1 other one might, haven't totally decided what to do with her yet. And then my WF that is sticking with the Lord Of Bladesesque type build. Maybe the LoB build won't be as uber as it would have been if I had decided to switch it to AoV, but it doesn't make him any less fun to play and he can still hold his own. Variety is the spice of life? It holds true in DDO as well.

/Agreed.

I've almost given up on PUGs currently as a lot of the time I am seeing people being too picky about what they will take. I love my stunning/tripping/trapping/raising dead build currently. She is a not built for max dps, max ac, or max hp.... but with her range of abilities she rarely finds a problem in a quest that she cannot solve.
I don't even bother hosting PUGs because of the amount of times you get told as the leader of the party, "That's not how you do XXXX."

This PUG problem only seems to have come up in the last 6 months or so.

[Beer_Dude]

/Agreed.

I've almost given up on PUGs currently as a lot of the time I am seeing people being too picky about what they will take. I love my stunning/tripping/trapping/raising dead build currently. She is a not built for max dps, max ac, or max hp.... but with her range of abilities she rarely finds a problem in a quest that she cannot solve.
I don't even bother hosting PUGs because of the amount of times you get told as the leader of the party, "That's not how you do XXXX."

This PUG problem only seems to have come up in the last 6 months or so.

That's my point. The people being picky are the ones who know just enough to know squat. Tonights Shroud is a perfect example. Dude with the star had a total of 19 runs. We had to pound on him to change his LFM to take the next 6 who joined as he was certain we needed "DPS". I'm like my ranger can buff to 60 str w/ min 2 khopeshes and I'm certain the other rangers and rouges are in a similar situation and casters now with DOTs dish out pretty much the same damage as melees. Bam! The whole group piled on and he changes the LFM. Go figure we fill in less than a minute. Yet before when it was only FTR and Barb we sat around for close to ten minutes waiting to fill.

The only bad thing about that was Smirti showed up when he changed the LFM. :)

[Blank_Zero]

that's My Point. The People Being Picky Are The Ones Who Know Just Enough To Know Squat. Tonights Shroud Is A Perfect Example. Dude With The Star Had A Total Of 19 Runs. We Had To Pound On Him To Change His Lfm To Take The Next 6 Who Joined As He Was Certain We Needed "dps". I'm Like My Ranger Can Buff To 60 Str W/ Min 2 Khopeshes And I'm Certain The Other Rangers And Rouges Are In A Similar Situation And Casters Now With Dots Dish Out Pretty Much The Same Damage As Melees. Bam! The Whole Group Piled On And He Changes The Lfm. Go Figure We Fill In Less Than A Minute. Yet Before When It Was Only Ftr And Barb We Sat Around For Close To Ten Minutes Waiting To Fill.

The Only Bad Thing About That Was Smirti Showed Up When He Changed The Lfm. :)

:d

[Blank_Zero]

double post

[BluWaterSeaWitch]

No not you, not ever :P

I don't know what you are talking about ;)


The only bad thing about that was Smirti showed up :)

Smirti still plays??

[Miahoo]

I love the analogy. You couldn't have explained it better +1 back at you.

Thanks man :)

[Blank_Zero]

Smirti still plays??

Don't make me mail my twigs and coal to you too!

Already sent a bunch to Emili..

[Beer_Dude]

Dont +1 me with this gimp-rep account, do it with your rep-heavy one!

I kid' ;)

Let's just leave it at that's not going to happen. I'm pretty sure you already know why but pm me if not and I'll fill you in.

[BluWaterSeaWitch]

Don't make me mail my twigs and coal to you too!

Already sent a bunch to Emili..

Ha you already sent them to Emili... so I am not scared :)

[fedoc]

Great thread...... hope to get into one o' the Drunken runs some night!!

[Fallout]

I experienced similar things too. One thing I've notice, if people are from well known guilds, or larger guilds, are usually solid players. Its the players from smaller, newer guilds or guilds with bad rep that are a gamble.

[Beer_Dude]

HOX LFM up it reads. HOX on norm Know it! Rangers blocked out with only 5 spots filled. There's the 1st clue. Send tell. Know it how? Collapse method or hunting party method? His reply I'm not sure. Me: Well you're the leader what are you going to direct. Leader: Well we're going to run around the outside killing stuff. OK that's hunting party method which is a waste on norm have fun.

So we again have a 4-6 month player that thinks he knows what's up and demands that other know the quest yet he doesn't even know it himself.

[Beer_Dude]

Great thread...... hope to get into one o' the Drunken runs some night!!

Sign up we have room this week. The thread is up now just ask for a spot in there.

[Miahoo]

HOX LFM up it reads. HOX on norm Know it! Rangers blocked out with only 5 spots filled. There's the 1st clue. Send tell. Know it how? Collapse method or hunting party method? His reply I'm not sure. Me: Well you're the leader what are you going to direct. Leader: Well we're going to run around the outside killing stuff. OK that's hunting party method which is a waste on norm have fun.

So we again have a 4-6 month player that thinks he knows what's up and demands that other know the quest yet he doesn't even know it himself.

Sometimes you do want people to keep going in circles, so they feel like doing something and wont screw up stuff in the middle :)
~True story

[Beer_Dude]

Sometimes you do want people to keep going in circles, so they feel like doing something and wont screw up stuff in the middle :)
~True story

I disagree sir. They can run circles in the middle. No mobs will go in there and kill them. They will feel like they're running in circles but there will be no mobs to kill them. Thus they will be alive to kill XXyzz when it's time. If they run the outside most of those tards will die. The vets will live as they're geared for it. Actually that's how we got into this situation. Newb/noob sees geared out vet do it. Noob/newb thinks that's how it's done. Not! Aussie did this in one of my runs. I told her have at it. Guess what? Some noob will see this and think he can do the same. He'll die along with the other noobs that think that's the way you do it and we'll continue to have wipes in Hound runs that should never happen.

[Miahoo]

I disagree sir. They can run circles in the middle.

Man! I'll do it! I wonder if they will really keep running in circles inside, will be so funny :)

Although I sometimes do it just to keep a watch about trash comming inside (When I see no one else paying attention).

[Aurora_nyx]

I experienced similar things too. One thing I've notice, if people are from well known guilds, or larger guilds, are usually solid players. Its the players from smaller, newer guilds or guilds with bad rep that are a gamble.

I've found that it doesn't matter with guilds. The idiot I had challenge me to a pvp match... well known large guild tat I actually have friends in. Squishy caster tr that died 16 times... well known large guild. 15 yo that wouldn't stop insulting/hitting on me... you guessed it.(and I could go on)

Guilds names have nothing to do with the player. I know people like to say oh they're in xxx guild, they will be uber awesome... you can still be an idiot and be in a "good "guild.

[Beer_Dude]

I've found that it doesn't matter with guilds. The idiot I had challenge me to a pvp match... well known large guild tat I actually have friends in. Squishy caster tr that died 16 times... well known large guild. 15 yo that wouldn't stop insulting/hitting on me... you guessed it.(and I could go on)

Guilds names have nothing to do with the player. I know people like to say oh they're in xxx guild, they will be uber awesome... you can still be an idiot and be in a "good "guild.

I couldn't agree more.

[BluWaterSeaWitch]

Guilds names have nothing to do with the player. I know people like to say oh they're in xxx guild, they will be uber awesome... you can still be an idiot and be in a "good "guild.

It cracks me up when its all about the "guild name" I have 2 level 20's in a "well known guild" and all my other 7 in a guild that isn't even 20 yet, but I am the same player, so its funny that someone would make a choice of a player because of the guild name.. heck when our guild hits 20 all we are going to have on the boat is 2 bars, (yes inside joke for anyone that knows the baby guild)

I have taken my new divine all the way to 20, yes I have had a few ship buffs along the way, but I learned I really don't need them. I had a party member argue with me that I "couldn't" do without buffs... are you kidding me?? really?? I made it a point to run elite runs at level and guess what I did just fine..

[Elyanna]

Rather than hijacking the other threads I figured I'd start my own.
*snip*

I found the same issue when I was pugging so I curled up and went either solo or guild runs, even running with my gimpy guild leaders crazy builds, to get me the xp I needed for Cammie's current life. She's sitting at level 18 with almost level 19 rank 2 in the bank awaiting the final rank of level 19 or until 20k from cap before I level her.

I have 2 other characters Flintquick and Saliadar, who are level 18 in their first lives, and will be trying to get to cap so I can TR them and make them more workable characters instead of the slight gimps that they are. I might be looking for some good fun runs and you always seem to bring them so I'll keep and eye peeled for a while and see if you got anything I can help with going.

[Namey]

I've found that it doesn't matter with guilds. The idiot I had challenge me to a pvp match... well known large guild tat I actually have friends in. Squishy caster tr that died 16 times... well known large guild. 15 yo that wouldn't stop insulting/hitting on me... you guessed it.(and I could go on)

This caster TR sounds vaguely familiar, though the one I quested with recently wasn't from a large guild of note. Still the same type.

TR Sorc first refusing some very basic instructions in Threnal ("Please don't fight on top of sleeping Coyle"), then trying to challenge me in to a kill count e-***** fight, following it up with piking through multiple quests at the entrance, failure to keep the quest chain intact even with instructions given by the leader, and finally topping it off with threats of my utter DESTRUCTION if I ever attempt to PvP him.

Overall real class act. :p

[taurean430]

Sometimes you do want people to keep going in circles, so they feel like doing something and wont screw up stuff in the middle :)
~True story

More often than not what you invite with that method is a few melee kiting renders into the middle from the outside in large numbers. It's entertainment, but can really screw up the raid.

[fedoc]

Would but ..... work wouldn't be all that pleased!

[crazycaren]

Hi
I've had more fun when joining/leading with BYOH or "speed run" in the lfm.

[Aurora_nyx]

This caster TR sounds vaguely familiar, though the one I quested with recently wasn't from a large guild of note. Still the same type.

TR Sorc first refusing some very basic instructions in Threnal ("Please don't fight on top of sleeping Coyle"), then trying to challenge me in to a kill count e-***** fight, following it up with piking through multiple quests at the entrance, failure to keep the quest chain intact even with instructions given by the leader, and finally topping it off with threats of my utter DESTRUCTION if I ever attempt to PvP him.

Overall real class act. :p

I really can't remember wiz or sorc... all I do remember is him running into area, ticking everything off before anyone else got there, dieing horribly, then attempting some silly excuse after everyone cleaned up the mess and we rezed him...it was rather funny really

[Blank_Zero]

I really can't remember wiz or sorc... all I do remember is him running into area, ticking everything off before anyone else got there, dieing horribly, then attempting some silly excuse after everyone cleaned up the mess and we rezed him...it was rather funny really

Why did you res him?

[MaxwellEdison]

Why did you res him?


it was rather funny really

And there's your answer.

[Aurora_nyx]

I only did it once... the others kept taking him back to the shrine as he'd say "really sorry guys, idk why I can't cast thru *insert random attack*"

not healing stupid is what got me challenged to the pvp match :p

[Khybes_Theo]

not healing stupid is what got me challenged to the pvp match :p

You can't heal "Stupid". Stupid is a frame of mind.... and no amount of healing can fix that.