Are you REALLY reaching your target audience?

[Llewndyn]

Hi, Llewndyn here, fresh from piking my way through another shroud run. Do you ever wonder why you take the time out of your day to put specifics into LFGs and end up getting the exact opposite of what you ask for? Looking for a BYOH group and getting all 10 con drow casters with the eternal CLW wand from Catacombs? Got me in your group? How did such misfortune fall upon you? Well, I don't really have a solution, but I CAN take you on a sneak peek behind the scenes of your common moron to maybe explain what is going through their skulls when they join your group. Observe:

1. PLZ know quest - Knowing what house it's in counts right?

2. BYOH - hirelings count. If there aren't enough spots for you to bring Maloren to Bastion of Power, then that's not really your problem now is it?

3. Don't be a moron - a favorite LFM on Ghallanda at least. If I'm really a moron would I bother reading that? How many people look at that and say to themselves; "Oh, I'm a moron, so this group is not for me"?

4. Zerg - Zerg means different things to different players. To some, it means moving fast, not picking up chests, and finishing in the most efficient way possible with as little time/ resources used as possible. Then there's the other 94% that hit the Join button....

5. Know your way - Everyone knows their way if you have blue dots to guide you!

6. Anyone but Llewndyn - That's not funny, either as a LFM or as the guild MotD (seriously, I took my con belt off!)

7. P2P - This means Person 2 Person, Pickled 2 Pears, Plow 2 purloin, or ANYTHING else but Pay 2 Play. Hit the group and find out what this ambiguous term means! Even better if you are the sole healer or a needed character for said quest

8. Leaving in 2 minutes - 2 minutes AFTER you finish ship buffing, deconstructing, crafting your 11 Tier 3 GS items... please, take your time

9. No crafting - This means everyone except those of you who REALLY need to, then it's alright and even wanted

10. Must have boots/Intimidate/Be able to Hate tank/ *insert skill here* - FF boots are still boots, so no reason to bother clarifying, and having more than 10 in the skill needed TOTALLY qualifies you to call yourself the hate tank/ intimitank...

11. Please send tell - That is for the unwashed masses. You are Dreadkiller678, high half orc bard/wizard/monk! They OBVIOUSLY mean other people... hit the LFM repeatedly. If they decline you they obviously misclicked, so keep trying it....

12. Must know way. Must be TRed. Must have green mohawk. Must kamas - This is bigotry, pure and simple. Join on your halfling female bald-headed 1st life dual shield wielding rogue, then get all agro when you get declined and jump on the forums for some passive aggresive nerd ra-

Well, you get the picture. What's the solution? How do you vet and make sure you have a good group (outside of declining me, which I must admit is usually a good first step)? Inquiring minds want to know...

[jwdaniels]

9 times out of 10, lfms like this are posted by bad players - If they think that you 100% must have class/race x or must use strategy y in order to complete a quest satisfactorily, they probably shouldn't be leading a group in that quest.

Don't start pugs if you're that concerned over needing to vet every applicant that signs up.

[Tirisha]

I always expect the opposite from what is asked of a Pug. This is a safe way to retain your sanity, but can also be a tool to manipulating pugs into doing exactly what you want. If you don't want that Barbarian to Tank Sully in TOD, just ask him too! If you need him to tank because he is the only WF in the party, ask somebody else and ignore him completely, he will later not allow the "tank" to gain a single swing in before attempting with all his might to take aggro.

These rules can apply to lfms. If you want pugs to Zerg, put things like, 'taking our time to enjoy the quest' in the lfm. If you want a 50 minute shroud completion in which it is completely safe to AFK between fights for a maximum of 10 minutes too eat, catch a nap, a cold drink or entertain a guest; put Zerg in your lfm. It's simple really. Manipulating pugs is easy, give it a go:p.

[Jay203]

9 times out of 10, lfms like this are posted by bad players - If they think that you 100% must have class/race x or must use strategy y in order to complete a quest satisfactorily, they probably shouldn't be leading a group in that quest.

Don't start pugs if you're that concerned over needing to vet every applicant that signs up.

but i need specific ppl to do the optionals in Tears of Dhakaan :(:(:(

[Lissyl]

3. Don't be a moron - a favorite LFM on Ghallanda at least. If I'm really a moron would I bother reading that? How many people look at that and say to themselves; "Oh, I'm a moron, so this group is not for me"?

I've always wondered about the mental capacity of anyone posting that in an LFM. To me it reads "Please, don't be even remotely unsure of what's going on, because I, the party poster, AM a moron and I don't think the quest needs two of us!"

[mournbladereigns]

Two ways. First solo moar.

Second, put THATS A 50 DKP MINUS!!!! in all your lfms.

http://youtu.be/HtvIYRrgZ04

[ShadowFlash]

Join on your halfling female bald-headed 1st life dual shield wielding rogue

On the other hand, that would be cool if we could dual-wield shields :p

[issiana]

any pug i put up i NEVER expect to get the no death bonus. that way i'm never upset when i get the opposite to the lfm requests and things go south.

Best lfm to date... "(XX quest here) comic relief needed ~ are you the clown i seek?"

[Raithe]

How do you vet and make sure you have a good group (outside of declining me, which I must admit is usually a good first step)? Inquiring minds want to know...

I get the best results by accepting the first 5 (or 11) people that hit the LFM. No joke. I admit I've never actually tried to control the quality of the PUG I'm leading, but I do seem to fare much better than PUGs I join that have stipulations.

You have to consider that stipulations may actually reduce your chances of getting experienced, qualified players - who may be turned off by the fact that you seem to need outside help to accomplish whatever you are doing.

If it were me, I'd just put "normal," "hard," or "elite" in the description box, plus maybe an "in progress" or "run 5 of 8."

[Llewndyn]

9 times out of 10, lfms like this are posted by bad players - If they think that you 100% must have class/race x or must use strategy y in order to complete a quest satisfactorily, they probably shouldn't be leading a group in that quest.

Don't start pugs if you're that concerned over needing to vet every applicant that signs up.

I have never put up an LFG for any of these, just boggles the mind that someone would think "Hey don't join my group if you are a terrible player" will get them anywhere...

[Lyzern]

There is no way to avoid bad pugs, no way at all. Whatever you post on your LFM, it won't happen. So, lower your expectations and go there just for kicks.

- Yesterday I tried a new LFM: Lv. X quests for fun and exp (Now the new part), be social

I spent the entire run speaking to myself. With a full party. Oh, and they kept asking if we could do other level quests.

Nice sarcasm btw.

[ceiswyn]

The main problem with PUG announcements, I think, is that they assume that people know whether they're good players.

They don't. They can't (there are a number of interesting experiments in cognitive psychology that demonstrate this). The absolutely rubbish player lacks the insight to know that he is absolutely rubbish. If he had the insight to know he was rubbish, he'd be able to see what he was doing wrong and improve. As it is, he thinks he's great. Click on that LFM!

Now, the people who have that insight develop into pretty good players over time, but some of them remain almost painfully aware of the ways in which they fall short, in which other people are better. They look at the LFM, they think about the standard they're expected to live up to, the mistakes they know they still make; they pass on by.

So if you say you need good players, you'll get a bunch of perpetual n00bs who don't know enough to know they're not good. If you say all are welcome, you'll get a bunch of decent players who are happy not to have to live up to some impossibly demanding standard of excellence.

So the last time I put up an LFM saying 'incompetents welcome, leader half-asleep' I got zerged through STK by a bunch of seasoned pros. And I didn't even have to wake up :) Good times...

[Rusty_Can]

11. Please send tell - That is for the unwashed masses. You are Dreadkiller678, high half orc bard/wizard/monk!

Bah.. this is plain and short-sighted discrimination! Anyone able to mix bard and monk, overcoming alignment restrictions, should be allowed in any party, I say! ;)

[Asmodeus451]

The main problem with PUG announcements, I think, is that they assume that people know whether they're good players.

They don't. They can't (there are a number of interesting experiments in cognitive psychology that demonstrate this). The absolutely rubbish player lacks the insight to know that he is absolutely rubbish. If he had the insight to know he was rubbish, he'd be able to see what he was doing wrong and improve. As it is, he thinks he's great. Click on that LFM!

Now, the people who have that insight develop into pretty good players over time, but some of them remain almost painfully aware of the ways in which they fall short, in which other people are better. They look at the LFM, they think about the standard they're expected to live up to, the mistakes they know they still make; they pass on by.

So if you say you need good players, you'll get a bunch of perpetual n00bs who don't know enough to know they're not good. If you say all are welcome, you'll get a bunch of decent players who are happy not to have to live up to some impossibly demanding standard of excellence.

So the last time I put up an LFM saying 'incompetents welcome, leader half-asleep' I got zerged through STK by a bunch of seasoned pros. And I didn't even have to wake up :) Good times...

^^ this.

i dont consider myself an "uber" player, just a competant one, and any time i see an LFM that says zerging, know the quest, no noobs, or whatever else, i dont join simply because i dont want to have to live up to the expectations of the PL.

i will FREQUENTLY for LFMs with things like "new players welcome" or "join here if you want to learn it" so that those new players who want to improve can, because i still remember when I was new

[Blagrak]

I've always wondered about the mental capacity of anyone posting that in an LFM. To me it reads "Please, don't be even remotely unsure of what's going on, because I, the party poster, AM a moron and I don't think the quest needs two of us!"

:p

Us morons are a jealous folk, and dislike competition for what we deem our hard-earned positions in the group.

[KillEveryone]

9 times out of 10, lfms like this are posted by bad players - If they think that you 100% must have class/race x or must use strategy y in order to complete a quest satisfactorily, they probably shouldn't be leading a group in that quest.

Don't start pugs if you're that concerned over needing to vet every applicant that signs up.

Some of those are legit like BYOH, zerg, or P2P. I'm not going to spend TP on a guest pass for a P2P quest. I tend to run with my own heals while zerging and have started the quest so I like to give a fair warning.

I've put "starting if 5 minutes" for Pikers Fate. I see that a lot for that particular quest.

I've also used "Please send tell" before because I was using a hireling in the last spot. Hireling was used for runes in Tear and Xorian.

Some things on the LFM though can be silly.

[Jahmin]

On the other hand, that would be cool if we could dual-wield shields :p

Indeed, during beta we used to be able :cool: