Serious PvPness

[Razifain]

Ok so last couple days I've been bored and entered the lobster for some pvp...this is my first lvl 20 toon so he's not all decked out with insane gear and uber stats. So I see this other level 20 in there, the only other level 20...he's not attacking me, just repeat-killing anyone under lvl 10. Although I find it amusing (and sometimes fun to watch) attacking people who have no chance gets boring after the first 3 to 5 kills.

My toon is just a dungeon crawler, I never really even considered pvp till recently...i mean my guy has 300hp buffed. Dunno how good that is as a lvl 20 PM wizard, but I tend to not die in dungeons and half-soloed harry so I don't complain...

So I go to leave the brawl area after watching for a bit and when i hit the ladder he attacks me while my back is turned, before i can hop off and turn to attack back...i'm dead. While I recover he runs and jumps back on the ledge and waits. When I hop back down and get back in my corner a lvl 14 attacks me, right when i cast the spell that kills him that guy from before hops off the ledge and kills me...now i REALLY don't take any of it personal, i could care less how many times you kill me or call me a noob, hell i'll even wear a shirt that says DDO-NOOB RIGHT HERE! But later when I killed him during a 1 on 1, he got upset and said he's putting a hit out on me and starts bringing his guildies and friends into it...naturally not much I can do so i just shrug and leave the arena.

Next day, while in the brawler area I made a couple friends by killing them...granted it was somewhat a cheap way (irresistable dance followed by a barrage of whatever i could cast before it wore off) but it worked and they laughed and now they don't attack me. So a ranger attacks me and kills me while fighting a cleric (and if you haven't fought a cleric while on a necromancer, that's a pain...). I come back and fight the cleric but the ranger kills me again while I'm fighting the cleric...

Take 3 : I hop down and move to my corner and just toast the lvl 20 ranger in 2 shots. I get a tell saying "your dead" and next thing I know he's got his friends in there attacking me. At this point I'm getting the impression that PvP brawls are less about skill and more about who you know. Now don't get me wrong, I actually ENJOYED playing like this...seriously, taking on 2 or 3 at a time made me feel pretty **** leet.

Now it was fun till the guy got upset that I was killing him and his friends as much as they were killing me...that's when the /tell's started..."you're a noob" and accusing me of ledge hopping while he's surrounded by his friends xD. My response, I popped in a dvd irl and watched a movie while leaving my character on the ledge...I come back 2 hours later and they are STILL sitting there whispering me saying i'm afraid to come down.

At this point i really thought they'd have given up within 30mins...so I had this O.o look on my face when I got back.

As I said earlier, THIS was truly fun and amusing. Anyone else have a similar story? =D

[littlewing]

losers...

they're everywhere.

[Zerenety]

Similar? oh yeh! When on lowbie toons killing lowbies, they often get upset and brings their cap toons.
Often melee characters tend to be like this. One place where the advantage of ranged combat dominates their abilities :P

What I notice aswell, is that some get really mad when poked at. I use my pew pew bow 2-3 times, and suddenly everything is a deathmatch.
"Your a noob for attacking without asking!" Usually I just wait for my multi-shots on ledge and tease the **** out of them ^^


But, that ofc means that I lower myself to their level. But it's so fun..
I just squelch them if they get to annoying, and use the /laugh and /poke :)

[weddingly]

pvp is the most fun amusing and amazing hilarity you can have in DnD - both in DDO and neverwinter nights. its a chance to let ur ego rip, become the most rotten person u cud ever be, and generally wail on anybody and anything just for fun. it's also the most high level intellectually stimulating exercise cos u r hunting humans. dont take anything seriously, go out have fun, learn some funthings, gwork out how they did it and go back and kill them.

i only wish ddo has a more polished pvp system but its not bad for what they are doing - look at the brawlers in pit and arena - they r having fun anyway :)

u know whats one of the most amusing thing about pvp? -- the majority of pve players scoffing at how bad it is :D it isn't. its way more fun than pve for me :)

[Lyzern]

I was of the opinion that PvP shouldn't be removed because people didn't like it (In another thread) but after seeing what I see and reading what I'm reading, to hell with PvP, just remove it, I'm honestly sick of people who use PvP to brag, rage and QQ. Go play an FPS, real skill right there. (quakelive rocks)

[sirdanile]

What i've always found enjoyable is having roughly 8 spellcasters on you at the same time, really stresses your twitch skills.

Course then the one time I get my guildies to go do the capture the flag or deathmatch official pvp it always winds up with them dieing a lot to me, and then they get all moody for a bit.

So we stopped that.

Basically if it's your cup of tea, great! You have something to do to kill time!

Also what i've noticed is that usually theres an uneasy truce between capped characters in the pit, and that 1v1s are usually respected... but you never know! :D

Long story short... Fun to kill time, don't get worked up over it, and OP; You're learning :D

[Lissyl]

pvp is the most fun amusing and amazing hilarity you can have in DnD - both in DDO and neverwinter nights. its a chance to let ur ego rip, become the most rotten person u cud ever be, and generally wail on anybody and anything just for fun. it's also the most high level intellectually stimulating exercise cos u r hunting humans. dont take anything seriously, go out have fun, learn some funthings, gwork out how they did it and go back and kill them.

i only wish ddo has a more polished pvp system but its not bad for what they are doing - look at the brawlers in pit and arena - they r having fun anyway :)

u know whats one of the most amusing thing about pvp? -- the majority of pve players scoffing at how bad it is :D it isn't. its way more fun than pve for me :)

...I have trouble matching anything as 'high level intellectually stimulating' when followed by 'cos u r hunting humans'.

Neither have I met a pvp 'enthusiast' who wasn't always complaining about every single loss. Every loss is lag, every win is 'pure skill'. They remind me of 'that one friend' back in grade school in the 80's who blamed every loss on 'the controller' and every win on 'pure skill'.

[Ivan_Milic]

I tried pvp too.
With my lvl 10,lvl17 1 tr wiz challenged me and I accepted,almost killed him then he run away,was waiting for him,he comes back kills me.
Then I respawn(I think it was in place called pit where we were fighting) hes on top of some platform,sees me kills me again,then again,I didnt know how to get out of there fast,cuz he was killin me in few sec I hit alt f4.
Pvp has nothing to do with skill.

[weddingly]

...I have trouble matching anything as 'high level intellectually stimulating' when followed by 'cos u r hunting humans'.

Neither have I met a pvp 'enthusiast' who wasn't always complaining about every single loss. Every loss is lag, every win is 'pure skill'. They remind me of 'that one friend' back in grade school in the 80's who blamed every loss on 'the controller' and every win on 'pure skill'.

possibly you havent played in a situation of better balanced DnD pvp with more veteran pvp players. if you do set up such pvp (and DDO is still far away from that), what evolves as more and more veterans emerge is pretty much mutual respect. for myself and many other players in nwn pvp, we did find it very exhilarating and an intellectually challenging exercise - and no, we did not find every loss was due to lag.

i'm not saying you will find the same satisfaction as ourselves, but it wouldn't be correct to say that the whole of pvp is bad for everyone. it isn't. for me, DDO pvp is only a very very tiny segment of online pvp in dnd as a whole.

[Lissyl]

possibly you havent played in a situation of better balanced DnD pvp with more veteran pvp players. if you do set up such pvp (and DDO is still far away from that), what evolves as more and more veterans emerge is pretty much mutual respect. for myself and many other players in nwn pvp, we did find it very exhilarating and an intellectually challenging exercise - and no, we did not find every loss was due to lag.

i'm not saying you will find the same satisfaction as ourselves, but it wouldn't be correct to say that the whole of pvp is bad for everyone. it isn't. for me, DDO pvp is only a very very tiny segment of online pvp in dnd as a whole.

From Conan, to DDO, to WoW, to Rift, to (insert every other MMO I've played)...the pvp players are the same. I've spoken to some pvp players ~in forums~ who seemed like genuinely good people (PastorB of WoW in particular comes to mind) and extoll the virtues of pvp...but I've never met a one of them in-game. Now, as TERA prepares for launch, you can see the exact same things happening with their forumbase in regards to pvpers, balance, and all that jazz. The vitriol of a pvp community drives more people away from a game than anything I've ever seen, including poor content. I've seen the bad it can do. I've never seen ~one shred~ of good come from pvp though. That's my experience; I'm not saying it isn't possible, or that I despise the very concept of pvp (although I can come awfully darn close to it at times). But when something is so bad, for so long...eventually you stop giving it 'another chance'.

Anywho, an alternative perspective, even one I personally disagree with, is always a good thing. Thanks. :)

[DoctorWhofan]

From Conan, to DDO, to WoW, to Rift, to (insert every other MMO I've played)...the pvp players are the same. I've spoken to some pvp players ~in forums~ who seemed like genuinely good people (PastorB of WoW in particular comes to mind) and extoll the virtues of pvp...but I've never met a one of them in-game. Now, as TERA prepares for launch, you can see the exact same things happening with their forumbase in regards to pvpers, balance, and all that jazz. The vitriol of a pvp community drives more people away from a game than anything I've ever seen, including poor content. I've seen the bad it can do. I've never seen ~one shred~ of good come from pvp though. That's my experience; I'm not saying it isn't possible, or that I despise the very concept of pvp (although I can come awfully darn close to it at times). But when something is so bad, for so long...eventually you stop giving it 'another chance'.

Anywho, an alternative perspective, even one I personally disagree with, is always a good thing. Thanks. :)


I agree, almost thesmae experiance

[karnokvolrath]

One time...at band camp..

[weddingly]

From Conan, to DDO, to WoW, to Rift, to (insert every other MMO I've played)...the pvp players are the same. I've spoken to some pvp players ~in forums~ who seemed like genuinely good people (PastorB of WoW in particular comes to mind) and extoll the virtues of pvp...but I've never met a one of them in-game. Now, as TERA prepares for launch, you can see the exact same things happening with their forumbase in regards to pvpers, balance, and all that jazz. The vitriol of a pvp community drives more people away from a game than anything I've ever seen, including poor content. I've seen the bad it can do. I've never seen ~one shred~ of good come from pvp though. That's my experience; I'm not saying it isn't possible, or that I despise the very concept of pvp (although I can come awfully darn close to it at times). But when something is so bad, for so long...eventually you stop giving it 'another chance'.

Anywho, an alternative perspective, even one I personally disagree with, is always a good thing. Thanks. :)

conan, wow, rift and other non-dnd multiplayer games lack what dnd has -- a very deep rooted comnbat/rpg system which the players (no matter whether they r right or wrong) have a deep belief in and a deep connection to in an rp fashion. everyone esle, barring any mmos based on another deep combat/rpg system, is basically a skill-tree upgrade system a la diablo 1. it's pretty limited and linear in what u can do in rp and pvp.

you see, when you die in pvp in a dnd styled system, you can be guaranteed of finding multiple ways to imrpove yourchances of surviving next time and getting even. whereas with other systems, there may be only a few things u can do: click faster, get more SP or HP etc - and often you do not even know if ythe maths u r using is right. dnd lets you sneak, adjust your stats, probe for weaknesses in the opponents AC (eg: does he havin mobility or improved init), adjust when and where you choose to confront him (as a rogue backstabbing in a group or as pesky AA) and when you win you have the satisfaction of knowing you found his weak spot. and you will also know it to be mathematically correct.

and yes your opponent may rant but hey - its pvp. don't expect it to be candy and roses.

and yes i have seen quite a few communities in pvp built up. but u do need to play for a long time and understand how the system works - or else yea, you will die fast and people will laugh. it's not for every1 but many pvpers come from pve after they are bored killing monsters.

[Hambo]

You ever notice how the "Uber" PvPers like to hang out in the PvP tavern the lowest level Alts use?

There are other (and better) pits in the Phoenix and the tavern closest to Delara's in House J. (I forget the name offhand).

If I were to make any changes to the PvP system it would be to establish level limits in each location... Say level 1-5 for the Lobster, 5-10 for the Phoenix, etc. This would give the lowbies a chance to enjoy PvP rather than being "pwned" by an Alt 10-15 levels higher...

As far as the higher level Alts "testing their skills" on lowbie alts?

I can only wonder... :confused::rolleyes::D

[FrancisP.Fancypants]

PvP in this game seems like inviting a bunch of folks over for some wine and conversation, and then a few people slip into the kitchen and raid the pantry and the liquor cabinet.

They were well behaved five minutes ago, but then all the social graces disappeared and now there's a bunch of angry, rowdy people yelling and throwing fine china everywhere.

[PLUGintoTHEpowerLINE]

PvP in this game seems like inviting a bunch of folks over for some wine and conversation, and then a few people slip into the kitchen and raid the pantry and the liquor cabinet.

They were well behaved five minutes ago, but then all the social graces disappeared and now there's a bunch of angry, rowdy people yelling and throwing fine china everywhere.

this. I have to share rep before I give it to Lord Fancypants again :)

[DoctorWhofan]

this. I have to share rep before I give it to Lord Fancypants again :)

Did it for ya!

[stille_nacht]

dunno, i never had people come gang up on me o-O, have got plenty of nasty tells when people take personal offense at being killed :/

[Raithe]

From Conan, to DDO, to WoW, to Rift, to (insert every other MMO I've played)...the pvp players are the same. I've spoken to some pvp players ~in forums~ who seemed like genuinely good people (PastorB of WoW in particular comes to mind) and extoll the virtues of pvp...but I've never met a one of them in-game. Now, as TERA prepares for launch, you can see the exact same things happening with their forumbase in regards to pvpers, balance, and all that jazz. The vitriol of a pvp community drives more people away from a game than anything I've ever seen, including poor content. I've seen the bad it can do. I've never seen ~one shred~ of good come from pvp though. That's my experience; I'm not saying it isn't possible, or that I despise the very concept of pvp (although I can come awfully darn close to it at times). But when something is so bad, for so long...eventually you stop giving it 'another chance'.

Anywho, an alternative perspective, even one I personally disagree with, is always a good thing. Thanks. :)

Interesting, because coming from a host of PvP games like Warcraft, Starcraft, Quake III Arena, Unreal Tournement, you name it, I was a little floored at the level of gamesmanship and community that I experienced in my first MMO for a long time... DDO. It wasn't a pleasant surprise.

There are bad apples in every online community. If you are the type of person that takes offense at a few bad apples, especially when your ego or game earnings are at stake, you might take a look at your own state of worminess...

[Krago]

conan, wow, rift and other non-dnd multiplayer games lack what dnd has -- a very deep rooted comnbat/rpg system which the players (no matter whether they r right or wrong) have a deep belief in and a deep connection to in an rp fashion. . .

You must realize how much of an oxymoron PvP is to DnD. Correct, people have deep rooted connections to their charactesr because they took all that time to level , equip, and grow their characters. And on that unlucky roll of 1 and you just failed your save and you died, you are crushed as all that work is gone.

That is why most of the community that were here before PvP was introduced have very little desire to see it prosper because it has no DnD flavor too it, just a showcase of ego. And from the OP's story, some ego is wound too tightly to pixels.

[Raithe]

You must realize how much of an oxymoron PvP is to DnD.


No, DnD started out in its early beginnings as a game called "Chainmail." It was a strategy miniatures war game between 2 to 10 players.



Correct, people have deep rooted connections to their charactesr because they took all that time to level , equip, and grow their characters. And on that unlucky roll of 1 and you just failed your save and you died, you are crushed as all that work is gone.


Please don't confuse player killing with player vs. player game mechanics. D&D has always used characters of nearly equivalent statistics in its battles and it rarely mattered which player (DM or otherwise) was controlling what. Duels between players were fully allowed and "PvP" in RPG tournements was extremely common. Above all, player interaction was always the most important ingredient to the telling of the story.

Please don't pervert the memory of a mostly-dead art form with your MMO-like contortions of the genre.

[Lissyl]

No, DnD started out in its early beginnings as a game called "Chainmail." It was a strategy miniatures war game between 2 to 10 players.



Please don't confuse player killing with player vs. player game mechanics. D&D has always used characters of nearly equivalent statistics in its battles and it rarely mattered which player (DM or otherwise) was controlling what. Duels between players were fully allowed and "PvP" in RPG tournements was extremely common. Above all, player interaction was always the most important ingredient to the telling of the story.

Please don't pervert the memory of a mostly-dead art form with your MMO-like contortions of the genre.

Wait, what? First off -- while the ideas for DnD do date back to the historical gaming genre-->Chainmail/fantasy wargame simulation, it was because they were becoming BORED of them that the changes Dave and Gary first made were, well, made! Furthermore, in the very earliest books, not one mention is made of players versus players (in fact, it was actively discouraged as it destroyed party cohesion). The 'DM as player' is a product of the third generation mindset -- NEVER in First or Second Edition was this mindset prevalent. Many books even referenced '2-6 Players and a Dungeon Master'. There's the PLAYERS Handbook and the DM's handbook; the DM's handbook makes a pointed reference that PLAYERS should not even be allowed to look inside it.

RPG tournaments, I can't speak for those but the few that I've been to had NOTHING of the sort (and any person suggesting such a thing would find a like-minded group only among those who had such prominent (read: idiotic) characters as half-dragons, half-unicorns, demigods (outside of the Immortals Set) and Dwarven Illusionist/Paladin/Thief/Rogue/Bards with a Natural 25 Strength and so forth). Anyone who expects that a 'balanced' duel between a 14th level Thief and a 14th level Wizard could even ~exist~, let alone be 'supported by the rules' has a badly deluded sense of memory regarding the game.

The game was written so that individual DM's could alter, adjust, and adjudicate as needed for their milieu. So while, no doubt, many DM's may have added such silly things as 'party duels'...at no point can the game be said to have endorsed such play.

[sirdanile]

For tabletop pvp is usually a really bad idea if it was incited by out of game events rather than in-game events, and even then in game events leading to pvp can cause out of game mistrust.

But if the story happens to flow that way, say the paladin winds up realizing the rogue stole from his church... well... yeah.

Bringing it back to ddo, pvp pits are just a fun hobby to pass time away in while waiting for a group, the good people never complain about dieing... or at least joke about it.

It is also very twitch skill dependant, surrounding awareness is stressed because ANYONE can haul off and kill you at any time, dodging ray spells and arrows while ducking around corners healing and returning fire, jumping like a crazy melee monkey to reduce the other monkey's chance of actually physically hitting you...

My point is that if you find pvp fun, go have fun and don't pay attention to the people who ***** in the pit.
If you don't enjoy pvp then avoid the pits and such, you're not missing much anyway!

[heyytoi]

Ok so last couple days I've been bored and entered the lobster for some pvp...this is my first lvl 20 toon so he's not all decked out with insane gear and uber stats. So I see this other level 20 in there, the only other level 20...he's not attacking me, just repeat-killing anyone under lvl 10. Although I find it amusing (and sometimes fun to watch) attacking people who have no chance gets boring after the first 3 to 5 kills.

My toon is just a dungeon crawler, I never really even considered pvp till recently...i mean my guy has 300hp buffed. Dunno how good that is as a lvl 20 PM wizard, but I tend to not die in dungeons and half-soloed harry so I don't complain...

So I go to leave the brawl area after watching for a bit and when i hit the ladder he attacks me while my back is turned, before i can hop off and turn to attack back...i'm dead. While I recover he runs and jumps back on the ledge and waits. When I hop back down and get back in my corner a lvl 14 attacks me, right when i cast the spell that kills him that guy from before hops off the ledge and kills me...now i REALLY don't take any of it personal, i could care less how many times you kill me or call me a noob, hell i'll even wear a shirt that says DDO-NOOB RIGHT HERE! But later when I killed him during a 1 on 1, he got upset and said he's putting a hit out on me and starts bringing his guildies and friends into it...naturally not much I can do so i just shrug and leave the arena.

Next day, while in the brawler area I made a couple friends by killing them...granted it was somewhat a cheap way (irresistable dance followed by a barrage of whatever i could cast before it wore off) but it worked and they laughed and now they don't attack me. So a ranger attacks me and kills me while fighting a cleric (and if you haven't fought a cleric while on a necromancer, that's a pain...). I come back and fight the cleric but the ranger kills me again while I'm fighting the cleric...

Take 3 : I hop down and move to my corner and just toast the lvl 20 ranger in 2 shots. I get a tell saying "your dead" and next thing I know he's got his friends in there attacking me. At this point I'm getting the impression that PvP brawls are less about skill and more about who you know. Now don't get me wrong, I actually ENJOYED playing like this...seriously, taking on 2 or 3 at a time made me feel pretty **** leet.

Now it was fun till the guy got upset that I was killing him and his friends as much as they were killing me...that's when the /tell's started..."you're a noob" and accusing me of ledge hopping while he's surrounded by his friends xD. My response, I popped in a dvd irl and watched a movie while leaving my character on the ledge...I come back 2 hours later and they are STILL sitting there whispering me saying i'm afraid to come down.

At this point i really thought they'd have given up within 30mins...so I had this O.o look on my face when I got back.

As I said earlier, THIS was truly fun and amusing. Anyone else have a similar story? =D

This is the main reason why i PvP.

All these wee kids sending me tells, been addicted to there hate for years now...

PvP is awesome!

[Lyzern]

This is the main reason why i PvP.

All these wee kids sending me tells, been addicted to there hate for years now...

PvP is awesome!

I wonder how much neg rep you'll get for that post lmao

[heyytoi]

I wonder how much neg rep you'll get for that post lmao

Probably a billion neg rep.

[Seikojin]

I have seen that for pvping and non pvping. Unfortunately, people have constraints on how you should play. Fortunately, I have seen a lot less of that.

Personally, if I get pwnd in pvp, I try to learn from it. If I fight someone and they do a good job at fighting back, I thank them. If I pwn them, I still thank them for playing.

Trash talk is generally overlooked, but if I am getting wiped, ask info on their build, and they give me flak, then I just leave em alone. It irritates me, but not enough to stress on it.