XXX is overpowered

[arcticwolf666]

/Rant on

Ok, I am so sick and tired of people crying and whining because they think casters are overpowered. Every time someone cries, whines and complains, casters get nerfed. Well...

All other races are seriously overpowered and I demand that those classes get nerfed to the extreme that casters have. Quit complaining, quit your crying and STOP your dang whining and work together.

Cheese and Rice, put on your big boy / girl panties on and play. Next time I will take my caster in a group and just pike to see how far you get.

/Rant off


Now please, quit trying to nerf others because you can't play your toon right

Let the flames BEGIN!!!!

[Gkar]

While I agree the 'nerf everyone but me' isn't helpful to the game...


Next time I will take my caster in a group and just pike to see how far you get.

Considering you can finish pretty much every quest in the game without any particular class in your group, they will do fine.

Sounds like you are doing a bit of crying and whining yourself.

[Lithic]

I totally accept that your 7wiz/3 sorc is not overpowered.

[Raithe]

Now please, quit trying to nerf others because you can't play your toon right


Many of the most vocal advocates of nerfing casters play casters, myself included. It's because we play our casters "right" that makes us think they need nerfed.

Perhaps you are still learning?

[redraider]

Hmmmm... I thought this thread was going to be about something else!

Not about inane whining. :rolleyes:

[Gkar]

1. We should not talk like that.
2. You are correct, but still wrong.
3. I will assume its a g.i.m.p. Build.




Given the name and build, I'd give the benefit of a doubt - that that is one of those Gimp™ builds I've been hearing about.

...in which case, it excels. :)


Oh, you are right, my appologies to the OP, it must be a deliberate gimp build for him to be promoting it in his sig. All he really needs to really perfect it as a gimp though is to add say... a few cleric levels now.

[nat_1]

On topic, in class OP debates I usually just counsel people to wait a few updates. Melee will have their day again.

[Lithic]

Oh, you are right, my appologies to the OP, it must be a deliberate gimp build for him to be promoting it in his sig. All he really needs to really perfect it as a gimp though is to add say... a few cleric levels now.

Doesn't the gimp build require rolling to see what your next class will be at each level up? The chances of reaching lvl 10 with only 2 classes are extremely remote (about 1 in 800000). The chances of having 7 of 10 of those being wizard for firewall access is only 6.25%.

In any case, I stand by my "I totally accept that the OP's sig character is not overpowered". heh.

[arcticwolf666]

Many of the most vocal advocates of nerfing casters play casters, myself included. It's because we play our casters "right" that makes us think they need nerfed.

Perhaps you are still learning?


Nope have the caster figured out. Found out I do not like wizards and getting him back to sorc, slow process but doable.

As for the others, this post was in reference to all the "Gimp the caster" posts. I have found that those cry babies get what they want. I just made this one to make them see that it is pure crying they do all the time. If you actually think I was crying lmao, I did my job ;)

Move along....

[arcticwolf666]

Doesn't the gimp build require rolling to see what your next class will be at each level up? The chances of reaching lvl 10 with only 2 classes are extremely remote (about 1 in 800000). The chances of having 7 of 10 of those being wizard for firewall access is only 6.25%.

In any case, I stand by my "I totally accept that the OP's sig character is not overpowered". heh.


Don't judge the book. Look at all the nerfing they have done. Why doesn't anyone talk about nerfing melee? Tis why this post exists... If you don't like it, quit responding :rolleyes:

[Kakashi67]

Let the flames BEGIN!!!!


Don't judge the book. Look at all the nerfing they have done. Why doesn't anyone talk about nerfing melee? Tis why this post exists... If you don't like it, quit responding :rolleyes:


Can't handle the heat?

If you don't like what Star is writing.... :rolleyes:

And why did you remove your sig? I want to see the g.i.m.p.s. too.

[Gkar]

LMAO, He was pure wizard, I am slowly turning him into a sorc (lesser reincarnate). On hiatus until complete transformation :)=).

Until then......

You are spending $40ish and 4 weeks to LR him over? Wow, in that time you could have started from scratch and capped and used less money on running xp pots 100% of the time

well, whatever turns you on I guess

[Voldomar]

Problem is...

http://dorukakan.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/xxx.jpg

He won't be pleased. At all.

[Viisari]

Don't judge the book. Look at all the nerfing they have done. Why doesn't anyone talk about nerfing melee? Tis why this post exists... If you don't like it, quit responding :rolleyes:

Because unlike casters, melees are not overpowered. They're actually so far behind casters that they're basically useless.

[Valakai]

Yea was just going to say that Triple X was seriously overpowered. I mean he killed all those terrorists and whatnots all through the movie without takin a scratch.
Race: Vin Diesel
Class: XXX
Stats: STR 42
CON 40
DEX 38
INT 10
WIS 10
CHA 32

Yea seems a bit overpowered to me. Can we nerf Vin down a notch.

[Kakashi67]

Yea was just going to say that Triple X was seriously overpowered. I mean he killed all those terrorists and whatnots all through the movie without takin a scratch.
Race: Vin Diesel
Class: XXX
Stats: STR 42
CON 40
DEX 38
INT 10
WIS 10
CHA 32

Yea seems a bit overpowered to me. Can we nerf Vin down a notch.

May as well call him Jean-Claude Van Damme. Or Dolph Lundgren.

[tdocxxericxx]

I agree. XXX is very overpowered. Ever since i started watching it i cant seem to turn it off. :p

Please nerf XXX so it is not so enjoyable to watch. :D

[t0r012]

in red

/Rant on

Ok, I am so sick and tired of people crying and whining because they think casters are overpowered. Every time someone cries, whines and complains, casters get nerfed. Well...

All other races are seriously overpowered and I demand that those classes get nerfed to the extreme that casters have. Quit complaining, quit your crying and STOP your dang whining and work together. They aren't crying , they are trying to make a suggestion to make the game better for everyone.

Cheese and Rice, put on your big boy / girl panties on and play. Next time I will take my caster in a group and just pike to see how far you get. maybe we play a game to play it and not just pike?

/Rant off


Now please, quit trying to nerf others because you can't play your toon right

Let the flames BEGIN!!!!

point is people don't whine and complain they make suggestions that they feel are in the best interest of the game/game balance. You not understanding that is the problem IMO.

[Mellkor]

Yea was just going to say that Triple X was seriously overpowered. I mean he killed all those terrorists and whatnots all through the movie without takin a scratch.
Race: Vin Diesel
Class: XXX
Stats: STR 42
CON 40
DEX 38
INT 10
WIS 10
CHA 32

Yea seems a bit overpowered to me. Can we nerf Vin down a notch.

Fine except for the int. should be more like a 3. :D

[redspecter23]

There is one thing that separates casters from non casters and makes them "feel" overpowered. The ability to do AoE damage, at range, while minimizing the danger to yourself by kiting, jumping and moving around. This was the reason given quite some time ago as to why ranged combat had to be nerfed into oblivion. It was bad for the game to have such effective ranged combat but for some reason it's ok for casters to do what would be overpowering for ranged characters? That's the part that confuses me the most. (I'm not saying I want casters nerfed. I just want to know why rangers can't get a bit more of a boost as well as giving melee a few more specialized options for AoE attacks)

I say blur the lines a bit more. Make AoE rogue traps a bit more effective. Let paladins combine smite and cleave on a longer timer maybe? Give ranged combat the love it deserves. Arcane archers have sp, let them cast actual fireball arrows. Fighters are the master of tactics, let me combo them a bit. Cleave + trip for fun times. Balance it with longer timers or make it use action boosts or whatnot. Give my monk some finishers that expand on the triple fire finisher for some AoE effects. Henshin mystic flinging fireballs sounds like fun to me. While casters should be the masters of AoE, I think the other classes should see a bit more of it.

[Fearlessleader62]

Well I would just like to know one thing for real why is DDO can't just fix one class with out nerfing another.

It cool to fix casters but way does that have me mean nerfing anyone.

Note to DDO don't fix whats not broke and fix what is. I don't know who running the show in DDO land but I think its just a way to sell hearts of wood if not make free reroll at level for each update, since it seems someone always get the shaft, then complain
then it gets fixed
next update someone gets the shaft
rinse wash and repeat

Welcome to DDO

Here in DDO Land some days your the windshield and some days you the bug if you don't like being the bug just wait till the next update don't worry it will change.

This update caster got on top don't worry next update they will get nerfed and it will be someone else.

Makes great sense (NOT)

[Beld]

There is one thing that separates casters from non casters and makes them "feel" overpowered. The ability to do AoE damage, at range, while minimizing the danger to yourself by kiting, jumping and moving around. This was the reason given quite some time ago as to why ranged combat had to be nerfed into oblivion. It was bad for the game to have such effective ranged combat but for some reason it's ok for casters to do what would be overpowering for ranged characters? That's the part that confuses me the most. (I'm not saying I want casters nerfed. I just want to know why rangers can't get a bit more of a boost as well as giving melee a few more specialized options for AoE attacks)

I say blur the lines a bit more. Make AoE rogue traps a bit more effective. Let paladins combine smite and cleave on a longer timer maybe? Give ranged combat the love it deserves. Arcane archers have sp, let them cast actual fireball arrows. Fighters are the master of tactics, let me combo them a bit. Cleave + trip for fun times. Balance it with longer timers or make it use action boosts or whatnot. Give my monk some finishers that expand on the triple fire finisher for some AoE effects. Henshin mystic flinging fireballs sounds like fun to me. While casters should be the masters of AoE, I think the other classes should see a bit more of it.

Casters 'CAN' run out of mana and then they are completely ineffective....ranged characters, especially AA ranged characters 'NEVER' run out of ammo, and even my non AA range type characters, I can carry so many Sturdy arrows as to never run out as well. While I agree that ranged combat could use some love, putting it on par with caster damage because it is 'the same' is not a valid argument.

The pendulum has swung the other way whereas 6 months ago, melee toons ruled, now casters rule, it will swing the other way again, my hope is that eventually, the swings get smaller and everything will come into quasi-balance, but I ain't holding my breath. :D

[redspecter23]

Casters 'CAN' run out of mana and then they are completely ineffective....ranged characters, especially AA ranged characters 'NEVER' run out of ammo, and even my non AA range type characters, I can carry so many Sturdy arrows as to never run out as well. While I agree that ranged combat could use some love, putting it on par with caster damage because it is 'the same' is not a valid argument.

The pendulum has swung the other way whereas 6 months ago, melee toons ruled, now casters rule, it will swing the other way again, my hope is that eventually, the swings get smaller and everything will come into quasi-balance, but I ain't holding my breath. :D

Casters can run out of mana but there are ways (and not necessarily pots) to refill it. You can make a perpetual casting machine if you have the right gear. You can make a caster that essentially doesn't run out of mana in at least a few different ways.

1. Chug pots like mad. You can have infinite SP.
2. Torc, Con/Opp item. If played properly, you can have infinite SP
3. Just plain don't run out before the next shrine. If you have SP left over before you hit the shrine, you essentially had no SP limitation. All the SP you needed was provided.

The suggestion that a mana bar is a balancing factor for casting vs. ranged combat is also not a valid argument. In addition while I wasn't specific about buffing up ranged combat, I did not suggest that there should be no cost for extra power. If you want to shoot a "fireball arrow" you could have it cost sp and therefore you'd have the same limitations on that sort of ranged combat as you have with spellcasting.

[Chai]

Don't judge the book. Look at all the nerfing they have done. Why doesn't anyone talk about nerfing melee? Tis why this post exists... If you don't like it, quit responding :rolleyes:

U5.

And the riots that followed.

Film at 11.

[Raithe]

This update caster got on top don't worry next update they will get nerfed and it will be someone else.


Casters have always been on top. Name a time in DDO where you took 6 pure melee into a quest and it was easier than taking fewer melee and a caster of some type.

I'm sorry, if you actually come up with something it'll be wrong. I don't even have to wait with baited breath.

Now, are there situations where taking 5 casters and a melee is less effective than 6 casters? For certain.

The pendulum in DDO has always been swinging on the caster side of the clock.

[Maelodic]

Casters do more damage at the expense of not being able to swing a giant axe to kill things. Chuck Norris wouldn't be a caster, he's too manly for that.

Melee people will continue to be melee, casters will continue to be casters. It's not like anyone seriously pvps in this game anyway, and having casters on your side just helps you get the quest done faster. An all caster anything probably will go down a lot quicker than a mix though, just sayin.

I don't see why people whine at classes being overpowered since we're all supposed to be working together. If you feel inferior, just get over it. They'll fix ****, for now just enjoy faster experience.

[Viisari]

An all caster anything probably will go down a lot quicker than a mix though, just sayin.


Say hello to the smoothest Epic Devil Assault I've ever ran. (http://koti.mbnet.fi/wink/ddo/herpderp.jpg)

Oh, and l2p

[Artos_Fabril]

Casters do more damage at the expense of not being able to swing a giant axe to kill things.
...Really? Because my wiz swung a carnifex around from 4 until 12, without a single melee level. In fact, if your caster isn't swinging a giant axe around for the first dozen or so levels, you're deliberately handicapping yourself.

The reason level 20 casters aren't swinging giant axes isn't because they can't, it because it's ineffective compared to casting aoes.
[...]having casters on your side just helps you get the quest done faster.
It's harder to get a caster on your side when you bring less to the group than another caster. That's the problem people are talking about. 6 melee groups < 5 melee +1 caster < 6 casters.

You see all caster shroud groups on a daily basis, all caster ToDs are less common but still exist, when's the last time you've seen an all melee Shroud, let alone ToD?

[baddax]

/signed. I personally am against all forms of pornography.

/facepalm. sry just read the thread.
:)

[arcticwolf666]

Well I would just like to know one thing for real why is DDO can't just fix one class with out nerfing another.

It cool to fix casters but way does that have me mean nerfing anyone.

Note to DDO don't fix whats not broke and fix what is. I don't know who running the show in DDO land but I think its just a way to sell hearts of wood if not make free reroll at level for each update, since it seems someone always get the shaft, then complain
then it gets fixed
next update someone gets the shaft
rinse wash and repeat

Welcome to DDO

Here in DDO Land some days your the windshield and some days you the bug if you don't like being the bug just wait till the next update don't worry it will change.

This update caster got on top don't worry next update they will get nerfed and it will be someone else.

Makes great sense (NOT)


Ding ding ding!

[arcticwolf666]

Casters have always been on top. Name a time in DDO where you took 6 pure melee into a quest and it was easier than taking fewer melee and a caster of some type.

I'm sorry, if you actually come up with something it'll be wrong. I don't even have to wait with baited breath.

Now, are there situations where taking 5 casters and a melee is less effective than 6 casters? For certain.

The pendulum in DDO has always been swinging on the caster side of the clock.



Now you see, why does Turbine have to constantly nerf casters instead of fixing melee? Tis not a difficult concept to grasp. It is because of the others, whining about not having the top kill count! I can care less about the stupid kill count, just want the dang quest to be successfully completed. I have seen a lot of melee types that hit pretty darn hard, so melee not being effective is invalid. Sorry, but there has to be fairness. This particular problem has been addressed at multiple levels but Turbine nerfs casters to make it "fair", which it is not. As per the 3.5 rules, the caster is, WAS, following the same build as PnP "which is what this game was supposed to follow". By nerfing a particular class so everyone hits the same, you may as well rid the game of that class and be done with it. Now the avid PVP people can be happy again. (Yes, I hate the PvP and I do not partake).

So, the answer is yes, I have seen a lot of melee that just whomps through enemies, and I have seen casters do the same. Why are the casters the only ones fingered to nerf? That is why I support the nerf everyone program. Don't just some people upset, go for the gold.

[brian14]

Hmmmm... I thought this thread was going to be about something else!

I actually did not, but I had hopes! :)

[Postumus]

Yea was just going to say that Triple X was seriously overpowered. I mean he killed all those terrorists and whatnots all through the movie without takin a scratch.
Race: Vin Diesel
Class: XXX
Stats: STR 42
CON 40
DEX 38
INT 10
WIS 10
CHA 32

Yea seems a bit overpowered to me. Can we nerf Vin down a notch.

Triple X was a nerf.

Rid**** was WAAAY MOAR overpowered than Triple X!

[xtchizobr]

/Rant on

Ok, I am so sick and tired of people crying and whining because they think casters are overpowered. Every time someone cries, whines and complains, casters get nerfed. Well...

All other races are seriously overpowered and I demand that those classes get nerfed to the extreme that casters have. Quit complaining, quit your crying and STOP your dang whining and work together.

Cheese and Rice, put on your big boy / girl panties on and play. Next time I will take my caster in a group and just pike to see how far you get.

/Rant off


Now please, quit trying to nerf others because you can't play your toon right

Let the flames BEGIN!!!!

I'm voting right now for Stamina bar.

[goodspeed]

I think they should beef up monsters so they just slay everything. Make those shaman nuke 3 times harder, and make the warrior's as beefy as a tanking pally. And throw wards and green steel on em to.

While doing this at the same time nerf healers, and cut reconstruct down by three quarters!!

Doing this you can cut the legs out from all classes at once while creating a game that is more suited to those that feel their class has become to easy.

DDO where casual is the 4th circle of hell.

[Adrenas]

I was just thinking earlier today that it seemed pointless to have my sorceror (or my sword and shield paladin) at all because of how much ridiculous damage I was watching THF fighters and barbarians do at no mana cost. I just came back to playing from a long break (according to ddo forums You last visited: 02-24-2006 at 10:12 AM) though so I have little basis for comparison. I'm actually feeling at sort of a loss regarding DPS and class/spell choice. The amount of whining i've seen here has made me really want to keep giving my sorceror a chance to catch up to the barbs and fighters though! Thanks for crying you whiners! This founder is back in the game.

[justplayingthegame]

Fine except for the int. should be more like a 3. :D




YA, and where did the CHAR come from?

[HelvanderSeries6]

Ok..Lets try to look at this realistically in a Fantasy setting. I know it sounds crazy *cough cough* but bare with me a moment.
Who do you think would be more powerful on a battlefield?

A. a dual kopesh wielding Halfling with fighter training
B. a highly experienced Sorcerer
c. a donkey with a +5 mithral full plate
D. all of the above



If your answer was A. a dual kopesh wielding Halfling with fighter training. This is a formidable force but you are not thinking this through to its entirety.

If your answer was B. a highly experienced Sorcerer then you must know that magic would be the most powerful force on the battlefield as even the best weapons and fighters are are enhanced with this but they would not come close in power to a caster of magic. However this not necessarily the right answer either.

If your answer was B. a donkey with a +5 mithral full plate then you are drunk much like myself but this would be the best answer thus far.

If your answer was D. all of the above then you have answered correctly. Even though the Sorcerer is more powerful than the Fighter and they are unbalanced individually true power and balance comes with the skills and tools of experience. The balance is in the plan of attack and the cohesion in the party and being thus, even the donkey with a +5 mithral full plate can be a hero.

just having some fun mates__cheers :D

[arcticwolf666]

Ok..Lets try to look at this realistically in a Fantasy setting. I know it sounds crazy *cough cough* but bare with me a moment.
Who do you think would be more powerful on a battlefield?

A. a dual kopesh wielding Halfling with fighter training
B. a highly experienced Sorcerer
c. a donkey with a +5 mithral full plate
D. all of the above



If your answer was A. a dual kopesh wielding Halfling with fighter training. This is a formidable force but you are not thinking this through to its entirety.

If your answer was B. a highly experienced Sorcerer then you must know that magic would be the most powerful force on the battlefield as even the best weapons and fighters are are enhanced with this but they would not come close in power to a caster of magic. However this not necessarily the right answer either.

If your answer was B. a donkey with a +5 mithral full plate then you are drunk much like myself but this would be the best answer thus far.

If your answer was D. all of the above then you have answered correctly. Even though the Sorcerer is more powerful than the Fighter and they are unbalanced individually true power and balance comes with the skills and tools of experience. The balance is in the plan of attack and the cohesion in the party and being thus, even the donkey with a +5 mithral full plate can be a hero.

just having some fun mates__cheers :D


Best most logical answer so far :)=)

Standing ovation. Finally someone gets it ;P

[grgurius]

Many of the most vocal advocates of nerfing casters play casters, myself included. It's because we play our casters "right" that makes us think they need nerfed.

Perhaps you are still learning?

This.


Casters have always been on top. Name a time in DDO where you took 6 pure melee into a quest and it was easier than taking fewer melee and a caster of some type.

I'm sorry, if you actually come up with something it'll be wrong. I don't even have to wait with baited breath.

Now, are there situations where taking 5 casters and a melee is less effective than 6 casters? For certain.

The pendulum in DDO has always been swinging on the caster side of the clock.

And this.
Nothing more to say.

[Burtle]

U5.

And the riots that followed.

Film at 11.
^-----------^

This, remember when twf tempets where the ******* for melee's and they changed the way they worked from attack speed to chance to proc offhand attacks. How many ppl cried that wasn't a nerf?? hmm... Practically eveysingle twf temepest/kensai did, hell some of the "exploiters" builds either got LR'd to something diff or just waited till 20 and TR to a diff class altogether :cool:
And what about vorpal/disruption/banish/smiting.... didn't that get nerfed just recently... Oh and stun effects, no more auto crits...just double damage... and W.O.P's no more deaths from 0 con... :eek:

just cuz you got a change in a couple of AOE's doesn't mean that caster's got nerfed...

sides'... it's ONLY a game :rolleyes:

*edit* ur kidding s.h.i.z.n.i.t. is censored????

[Oracle_Gil]

umm... sorry to interrupt, but has anybody considered how overpowered UMD is?
still why usually fighters and barbarians dont take it?

[Postumus]

...

You see all caster shroud groups on a daily basis, all caster ToDs are less common but still exist, when's the last time you've seen an all melee Shroud, let alone ToD?

Never once seen an all caster Shroud LFM. I've seen screenshots of an all Pale Master shroud... but then I've seen footage of Bigfoot too.

Most Shroud's I see are 80% melee. I've been in a couple that had no arcane whatsoever.

[Viisari]

umm... sorry to interrupt, but has anybody considered how overpowered UMD is?
still why usually fighters and barbarians dont take it?

Because they need rogue or bard levels and a heavy gear investment, including a greensteel item, to get much use out of it. Most of the stuff you could use UMD can be acquired from items (granted some might be difficult to get), so unless you want heal/reconstruct scrolls there's not much point.

[Viisari]

Never once seen an all caster Shroud LFM. I've seen screenshots of an all Pale Master shroud... but then I've seen footage of Bigfoot too.

Most Shroud's I see are 80% melee. I've been in a couple that had no arcane whatsoever.

The reasons for this are very simple.

Most players have more melee characters than they have casters. And the reasons for this are that most classes are melee classes plus casters are more difficult to play well.

Pug leaders are ignorant or wish to make a safer bet on who they're taking in their raid. Having a bad melee player in your party rarely matters as much as having a bad caster in your party.

I have seen several, and been in several caster only shrouds (well one run did have one monk there because he didn't have a caster). They were much faster than your average shroud too.

[ORIGINALBAG0]

Never once seen an all caster Shroud LFM. I've seen screenshots of an all Pale Master shroud... but then I've seen footage of Bigfoot too.

Most Shroud's I see are 80% melee. I've been in a couple that had no arcane whatsoever.

Personally, I just take the first X-number of people that click the LFM and make sure I have at least one divine and one ranger/arcane. The fact of the matter is that casters are too busy soloing epics to join pug Shrouds... ;)

[Oracle_Gil]

Because they need rogue or bard levels and a heavy gear investment, including a greensteel item, to get much use out of it. Most of the stuff you could use UMD can be acquired from items (granted some might be difficult to get), so unless you want heal/reconstruct scrolls there's not much point.

But wizards do sacrifice two lvls for rog to get to be able to use heal scrolls. Its just not them who are not facing difficulties putting in some points, other builds are too. Even when it is not neccesary for melee builds to maximize, unlike casters who have to for their primary stat to have high DC; else their SP required increases logrithmically.

[ExK444]

Pornography is overpowered. ;)

[joneb1999]

Many of the most vocal advocates of nerfing casters play casters, myself included. It's because we play our casters "right" that makes us think they need nerfed.

Perhaps you are still learning?

Or maybe is it because you have optimised, highly raid / epic specced toons with at least 3 greensteels each and forget what its like to not have that? Really the difference is night and day and less experienced and equipped players should not have to suffer due to uber players.

[Cholera]

Star Currently on life 27 of 34.

Lithic's perseverance is OP, can we get a nerf to that?! Maybe?

[irivan]

in red


point is people don't whine and complain they make suggestions that they feel are in the best interest of the game/game balance. You not understanding that is the problem IMO.

Game balance? This is DDO an offshoot of Dungeons and Dragons and being based on that game, balance has no place.

So thus it is whining.


Wake up and realize what game you are playing, maybe read the rules once in a while, then you might get it.

[EpiKagEMO]

/Rant on

.....Cheese and Rice, put on your big boy / girl panties on and play. Next time I will take my caster in a group and just pike to see how far you get....

im pretty certain that the party can get a completion with a fighter filling your spot.

[arcticwolf666]

im pretty certain that the party can get a completion with a fighter filling your spot.


If that is the case, then why are people complaining about casters? MY whole point is to quit crying because one cannot kill as much as the other. As long as the quest is completed, why is it a bother? I know quests can be done without casters.

Things were much better prior to the release of Free to play! People actually played together instead of the "I am more uber than you" mentality.

[Neverwinterer]

In D&D a lvl20 wizard haves a dozen ways to send a lvl20 warriors to the darkest oblivion.
In our high level campaings, the wizard was the one who sent the enemy Cornugons to the plane of happy halflings.
And yet nobody cared, all of us had our role in the group and the adventures where being completed.

DDO is a cooperative game, not a PvP game. Players in a quest shouldn't worry of nothing else than completion and treasure. I believe (but of course I might be wrong) that if someone is asking for nerfing anything it's because they don't see the game as it is: 2-12 players not competing between themselves, but against the environment.

If I was in the army... Would I ask the General to put weaker bullets in the tanks just because I'm in the navy and "I want my part of the cake"? Would I ask for slower planes because they are faster than me? Would I ask for the infantry to be given stones instead of guns? Answer is no.

If one character is too powerfull and bores you.. don't group him, as no one should group anyone who brings boredom to the party. If it is still impossible, better call for improvements in the weaker classes than nerfing the good ones.

I fact, I can guarantee that the best build with 20 past lifes and the best epic items, is worth nothing in the hands of a bad player. So the really overpowered thing here ¡are the players!. And nobody wants turbine to "nerf" us personally, do we?

[arcticwolf666]

in D&d A Lvl20 Wizard Haves A Dozen Ways To Send A Lvl20 Warriors To The Darkest Oblivion.
In Our High Level Campaings, The Wizard Was The One Who Sent The Enemy Cornugons To The Plane Of Happy Halflings.
And Yet Nobody Cared, All Of Us Had Our Role In The Group And The Adventures Where Being Completed.

Ddo Is A Cooperative Game, Not A Pvp Game. Players In A Quest Shouldn't Worry Of Nothing Else Than Completion And Treasure. I Believe (but Of Course I Might Be Wrong) That If Someone Is Asking For Nerfing anything It's Because They Don't See The Game As It Is: 2-12 Players Not Competing Between Themselves, But Against The Environment.

If I Was In The Army... Would I Ask The General To Put Weaker Bullets In The Tanks Just Because I'm In The Navy And "i Want My Part Of The Cake"? Would I Ask For Slower Planes Because They Are Faster Than Me? Would I Ask For The Infantry To Be Given Stones Instead Of Guns? Answer Is No.

If One Character Is Too Powerfull And Bores You.. Don't Group Him, As No One Should Group Anyone Who Brings Boredom To The Party. If It Is Still Impossible, Better Call For Improvements In The Weaker Classes Than Nerfing The Good Ones.

I Fact, I Can Guarantee That The Best Build With 20 Past Lifes And The Best Epic Items, Is Worth Nothing In The Hands Of A Bad Player. So The Really Overpowered Thing Here ¡are The Players!. And Nobody Wants Turbine To "nerf" Us Personally, Do We?


Qft!

[Burtle]

In D&D a lvl20 wizard haves a dozen ways to send a lvl20 warriors to the darkest oblivion.
In our high level campaings, the wizard was the one who sent the enemy Cornugons to the plane of happy halflings.
And yet nobody cared, all of us had our role in the group and the adventures where being completed.

DDO is a cooperative game, not a PvP game. Players in a quest shouldn't worry of nothing else than completion and treasure. I believe (but of course I might be wrong) that if someone is asking for nerfing anything it's because they don't see the game as it is: 2-12 players not competing between themselves, but against the environment.

If I was in the army... Would I ask the General to put weaker bullets in the tanks just because I'm in the navy and "I want my part of the cake"? Would I ask for slower planes because they are faster than me? Would I ask for the infantry to be given stones instead of guns? Answer is no.

If one character is too powerfull and bores you.. don't group him, as no one should group anyone who brings boredom to the party. If it is still impossible, better call for improvements in the weaker classes than nerfing the good ones.

I fact, I can guarantee that the best build with 20 past lifes and the best epic items, is worth nothing in the hands of a bad player. So the really overpowered thing here ¡are the players!. And nobody wants turbine to "nerf" us personally, do we?

Meh... Nerf em all I say... *looks around for his cup'o Joe* and tell them kids to get off my lawn! :cool:

[Philibusta]

If I was in the army... Would I ask the General to put weaker bullets in the tanks just because I'm in the navy and "I want my part of the cake"?

Then again, if you were in the army...you wouldn't be in the navy. You'd be in...the army. :p

[grgurius]

Then again, if you were in the army...you wouldn't be in the navy. You'd be in...the army. :p

Cmon, don't bring logic into one of these debates, they were doing fine even without it. :D

[redwolf51]

Just a idea,Make every class uber but hand out hit to Xp like pop rocks. That will shut them up. jk maybe?

[rimble]

We talkin' Ice Cube or Vin Diesel?

[gavijal]

Nope, about adult sites ;)

[Machination]

It is human nature to whine. Those that refrain from whining are a step about the rest. Why whine about other people whining?

[ThePrisoner]

/Rant on

Ok, I am so sick and tired of people crying and whining because they think casters are overpowered. Every time someone cries, whines and complains, casters get nerfed. Well...

Let the flames BEGIN!!!!

I couldn't agree more. The nerf everyone but me threads are really sad. And sorry, but if someone has an alt belonging to the class they are requesting to be nerfed, they are clearly not in the majority. (Responding to a different comment in this thread)

Running to a mob only to swing through it's vapor in epics was a bit frustrating for my melees at first, I must admit, but in time I just accepted it as part of the game and came to appreciate the efficiency of it.
It takes a crazy kind of insecurity to want insta-killing nerfed in epics, because you would be, in essence, hurting your whole party, yourself included.

As for DOTS, be glad that boss fights are easier.

As for wings, they are good for soloing.
FVS are good for soloing. Knowing that, I made a FVS.
Seems better to take advantage of a powerful class instead of complaining about them and trying to get them nerfed, doesn't it?
Like, I don't know, put your barb on the shelf for a couple weeks and try something new.

I get excited when I see a class is getting a boost, whether it's from changes in game mechanics or changes to the actual class. I think "how am I going to take advantage of this and make it my own?"

Other people...not so much.

Those people disappoint me.

[arcticwolf666]

I couldn't agree more. The nerf everyone but me threads are really sad. And sorry, but if someone has an alt belonging to the class they are requesting to be nerfed, they are clearly not in the majority. (Responding to a different comment in this thread)

Running to a mob only to swing through it's vapor in epics was a bit frustrating for my melees at first, I must admit, but in time I just accepted it as part of the game and came to appreciate the efficiency of it.
It takes a crazy kind of insecurity to want insta-killing nerfed in epics, because you would be, in essence, hurting your whole party, yourself included.

As for DOTS, be glad that boss fights are easier.

As for wings, they are good for soloing.
FVS are good for soloing. Knowing that, I made a FVS.
Seems better to take advantage of a powerful class instead of complaining about them and trying to get them nerfed, doesn't it?
Like, I don't know, put your barb on the shelf for a couple weeks and try something new.

I get excited when I see a class is getting a boost, whether it's from changes in game mechanics or changes to the actual class. I think "how am I going to take advantage of this and make it my own?"

Other people...not so much.

Those people disappoint me.


Thank you. At least there are a few people who understand and you of course put it in a better way than I did lol.

[CosimoCal]

I spent one year to create and reincanrate 2 melee toons. I had a lot of fun with them.

But now I'd like to run some major epic raids or the new elite shroud.

Often I simply cannot, becasue on the lfg you can find the tag "only caster" . I am out because i am in a small real life friends guild and we rely on pugs or friends to run raids.

the ones who started doing what they liked (melee i.e.) are often FORCED to change their characters to play some contents.

this is an example showing that unbalanced power between classes can hurt.

[Ravoc-DDO]

What class type is the recommended choice to solo endgame content up to epic difficulty?

That's right...

[FengXian]

To the OP: try again when you start seeing "melee only" groups... :rolleyes:

The game should be about coop., but the sad truth is that casters don't really need melees (with a few exceptions...)...casters can dps, heal, tank, rec mana. Not gonna ask to nerf casters, buff melee! :P

[goodspeed]

/signed. I agree whole heartedly. XXX is totally overpowered. Did you see the moves that guy was doing in the air? He was whippn in triple axles gettn head shots effortlessly. The dude even survived death defying stunts!!

Lets nerf vin diesel!!!

[Bunker]

I read in another thread that a players point of view sometimes does not paint a good picture for a reason to nerf a supposive over powered class/race.

Example: If a player runs with an "End Game I have Everything Completionist God Almighty Insta Killer Arcane", and really doen'st run with many others, thier perception of the class over the entire game and player base will be warped.

This happens all too much. A player will come on to the forums, thinking of 1 or maybe 2 particular situations they experienced in game, and shout out words like "overpowered" and "please nerf". They think only of the situation the experienced.

Example: My rogue was in Deleras and I was awesome at disabling all the traps. However I was always on the bottom of the kill counts. Can we boost the power of my rogue please?

There are even really experienced players, that have played and contributed an extreme amount to the game, but thier own personal view to increase the capabilities of thier favorite race/class allows them to speak on all other classes, asking them to be nerfed.

So I agree that the call for nerfs, the outcries of overpowered classes/races gets a little old. And even if the idea stated is long and well thought out, sometimes it is still wrong and coming from a sigular view, best for the writer, and not the masses of readers.

-Bunk

[Antheal]

Henshin mystic flinging fireballs sounds like fun to me.

You misspelled "Hadouken".

[strath]

Remember the days where the Exploiter was the only toon you ever needed & rogues didn't have a capstone?

I think lots of game balance is subjective and situational. Frankly one could easily argue that between Evasion UMD and High Backstab well equipped Rogue Assassins are the way to go.

I think we keep talking about balancing game play but that ignores the real issue . . . Player skill. I think more should be done to nerf skilled players. They prance around manually dodging brutal attacks, and they throw off the balance of a perfectly good mediocre PUG. Perhaps we can mail them lousy keyboards or the old fashioned trackball mouse gummed up with layers of dust. ;)

[countfitz]

Ok, I am so sick and tired of people crying and whining because they think casters are overpowered. Every time someone cries, whines and complains, casters get nerfed.
Let the flames BEGIN!!!!

When was the last time casters were nerfed in favor of melees? Seriously!?!

And if you say "Firewall," that update increased casters OP to almost game breaking proportions.

Or was this a fake troll post and I fell for it?

I'm not sure, it did end "flame on" so...

[Faent]

Ok, I am so sick and tired of people crying and whining because they think casters are overpowered. Every time someone cries, whines and complains, casters get nerfed. Well...

Please list all the nerfs to casters you're talking about.


All other races are seriously overpowered and I demand that those classes get nerfed to the extreme that casters have. Quit complaining, quit your crying and STOP your dang whining and work together.

Wait, so casters have been "nerfed to the extreme"? Please do explain. We need to be enlightened. Obviously you have information I lack. If I can take my melee into eChrono and knock out ten trash mobs in less than two minutes, I'd rather be doing that instead of taking a full two minutes to get it done.

If I could round up a group of fifteen epic mobs and then kill them all on my melee, I'd like to do that. Can you explain how I wouldn't be instantly dead on any melee? (Well, perhaps Shade could do it, but it'd be expensive. The arcane can do it without using any resources.)


Now please, quit trying to nerf others because you can't play your toon right

Teach me how to make my melees rock as much as arcanes, and I'll worship you like a god.

In seriousness, perhaps arcanes aren't overpowered. If not, then melees are underpowered and so casters are *comparatively* overpowered. Anyone who knows anything knows at least this much.

[Antheal]

Nerf my teammates to make me look better in comparison!!11!!!!!1!!!!11!

I don't care that the whole party will end up being a lot worse off as long as I look better in comparison!!!!!11!!!1!!!!1!

Me me me me I'm the best and anyone better than me has to be nerfed because I have to be the best!!!1!!!!1!!111

!!!1!!11!!!!11!!1!1 and some more !!11!11!11!!s for emphasis.

[Psiandron]

Bah, there's still no porn in this thread.

<grumble, grumble...>

[Faent]

Nerf my teammates to make me look better in comparison!!11!!!!!1!!!!11

I don't think anyone has suggested this. If you think they have suggested it, I'd be inclined to think that your reading comprehension isn't all that great.

[strath]

Consider the source: High level D&D arcanes can cast a Wish spell! Mid level divines can raise the dead! High level fighters can swing a sword really well! . . . it's like one class lost a bet.

I don't know that anyone could argue that the game has ever been about balance. Play what is fun, even if that means a bit more or less of a challenge.

Just an addendum . . . compared to table top, melees are about right, casters have been massively nerfed.

[Chai]

I don't think anyone has suggested this. If you think they have suggested it, I'd be inclined to think that your reading comprehension isn't all that great.

Actually, quite a few people have suggested it, and overstated the case while doing so. While many wave the "teamwork" flag around, most of what they suggest when they ask for nerfs wont even solve the balance issue, unless of course, the issue is "my kill count -vs- their kill count".

[Chai]

Consider the source: High level D&D arcanes can cast a Wish spell! Mid level divines can raise the dead! High level fighters can swing a sword really well! . . . it's like one class lost a bet.

I don't know that anyone could argue that the game has ever been about balance. Play what is fun, even if that means a bit more or less of a challenge.

Just an addendum . . . compared to table top, melees are about right, casters have been massively nerfed.

Yeap exactly.

D&D was not intended to be a balanced game due to game mechanics. It was intended to be a game where each player plays a character that plays a specific role in the party, and then the DMs job is to make it forced cooperation, where they all need to work together to succeed.

The issue with MMOs is that theres always that contingent of players who feels they should have just as easy of a time in X1 class doing Y task as they would have on X2 class doing the same Y task. This is how most other MMOs work after all. If I log into WOW and fight the same trash mob in the same zone, chances are I will have roughly the same challenge defeating it on one class as I would the other. In EQ there were a couple of better solo classes, but those classes werent needed on raids for ANYTHING, so if you played a necro for instance, it was because you liked soloing, but you knew full well if you wanted to raid, you either had a guild that would allow your necro into raids, or you pugged a different class.

DDO had to delve away from its D&D roots in order to attract MMO players. There are many examples of this over the years that add up to this game playing more like an MMO and less like a D&D based game. It began with the many complaints that the game was too hard to solo starting all the way back in 2006. Numerous things have been done to please MMO players who are used to soloing their way to max level in small amounts of time, then raiding the same zones once they are off timer. While a good business decision, it certainly moved the game further away from its D&D roots. Forced cooperation went out the window, and was replaced with casual difficulty and dungeon scaling, and the expectation of being able to single handedly complete quests that only groups used to be able to handle in the past.

Along with these adjustments, came the attitude that balance equals each class being capable of defeating the same content on the same difficulty settings. Most of the old school D&D players, who are now the minority opinion, understand that this wont be the case, but those who were exposed to fantasy gaming by MMOs are used to this kind of "similar character capability" balance. Many have spent 10+ years playing games where the ranger class shoots arrows for 150 points of damage, the wizard class shoots magic missiles for 150 points of damage, and the melee class slashes for 150 points of damage. The necro class uses 2 DOTs which tick for 75 each. All of their special moves when timed right cause each class to do ~1700 DPS, to trash mobs that have 100k HP. This is the "balance" many are used to.

Then they play the D&D based game that is DDO. The number of options open to them is sick compared to the vanilla single class same capability games they are used to. They begin to learn system mastery, optimization, min maxing etc. and sooner or later they begin to realize that balance in D&D based games is not achieved through each character having similar capabilities as everyone else who plays the same role. They also realize that gear alone is not the gateway to success. Then they read forum posts about people soloing at level raids complete with screenshots.

At some point, it hits them - they aint in MMO Kansas anymore toto. This isnt WOW and EQ. Toons arent cookie cutter stamped out, and as such they do not have the same capabilities as everyone else with the same class icon. Every paladin in DDO doesnt have purple armor with oversized football pad like shoulder guards and a weapon the size of a Chevy S-10. Every cleric isnt wearing a dress with a wand in one hand and and standing in the back of the group waiting for someone to take damage so they can toss the same heal spell every single other cleric in the game carries. The players who like the differences that D&D based gaming brings to the table celebrate this and continue playing. The ones that do not, and must have their "sameness" balance in order to be happy realize there are MANY other games out there that do...

Oh wait, some actually dont act on this realization. They get on the forums and complain that something is overpowered and it needs to be nerfed. Endeavoring to turn DDO into something that plays more like other MMOs is the name of the game. They dont want to play a powerful _________. They want your __________ to not be as powerful as it is. When providing reasoning for this the issue gets completely overstated. The fact that __________ is sooo powerful, means there will never be a reason to have _____________ in a group or raid ever again. If __________ continues to unbalance the game, tons of players will leave because it makes it not fun to play. Note that this has never happened in D&D or DDO, but the claim has been made multiple times.

Those of us who understand the nature of D&D based games have accepted them for what they are a long time ago. We understand that its the number of options available that separates D&D based gaming from WOW clone based gaming. We also understand that adding this much customization and this many options makes it much harder if not darn near impossible to have balance through similar character capabilities be part of D&D based gaming. Optimizers shattered that reality immediately after the games release, and immediately after the release of new content which creates more options anyhow by gaining understanding of how each new option combines with options that already existed in the game.

Asking for classes or specific options to be nerfed due to being "overpowered" goes against the very reason why many people choose to play a D&D based game, rather than a cookie cutter same capabilities, same class = same look = same effective options game. It also doesnt solve any issues, even if the option that is being claimed to be OP is nerfed. When this happens, it changes the circumstances of combining two or more specific options to be powerful, but not the fact that this can be done - then the optimizers just break open their planners, and calculate what the most powerful combination of options is under the current set of circumstances. It becomes this unending cycle of complaining > nerf > create new OP build, complain again > nerf > create new OP build, complain again etc. There are so many more options in D&D based games compared to most other MMOs, that creating balance through similar character capabilities is not really possible in the scope of the lifetime of a typical MMO.

Bottom line: The number of character options a game has is inversely proportionate to possibility of balance through "sameness" in character capabilities per role played. Having our cake and eating it too is a tall order in a game with as many build options as DDO. There will always be something that is relatively more powerful than other options. How far does this rabbithole go? We could complain about something that is "OP" indefinately for the entire duration we play a specific D&D based game. Or - we can enjoy playing a game that has this many options with the full understanding that there will always be something more powerful than somewthing else.

[flotterjohnny]

sry nvm