2 Paladin TWF Build ideas

[fyzikx]

Paladin 18/Fighter 2
34pt Build Horc

Strength:18
Dexterity:15(+2 tome for iTWF and up)
Con:14
Intel:6
Wis:8
Char:14(+4 tome[it's possible!] to qualify for DM3)

Feats(in any order): Toughness, Power Attack, Extend Spell, TWF, iTWF, gTWF, iCrit:Slashing, Khopesh feat, [insert feat here]

Build 2:
Paladin 20
34pt Build Human

Strength:16
Dexterity:15
Con:14
Intel:6
Wis:8
Char:16

Feats(in this order): Toughness, Khop prof, TWF, Power Attack, iCrit:slashing, iTWF, gTWF, extend spell

Questions:-what should i take for my 9th feat?
-should i even take a 2nd fighter level? Because dropping divine sacrifice 3 might be a terribad idea...maybe a monk level?
-it might just be me...but i always feel inclined to take toughness, but then again you are getting more DPS when you are alive, should i even take toughness?
-are scimitars better for a Paladin than a khopesh?
-I dont' get how ppl get their AC so dang high with a paladin....am i missing something?
-Oh yeah and the saves, what's up with ppl telling me Paladins should have high saves?

[CanuckWisdom]

Its not that paladins 'should' have high saves. Its that they DO, so long as their charisma modifier is sufficient (because its added to saves).

[t0r012]

stuff in red

Paladin 18/Fighter 2
34pt Build Horc

Strength:18
Dexterity:15(+2 tome for iTWF and up)
Con:14
Intel:6
Wis:8
Char:14(+4 tome[it's possible!] to qualify for DM3)

Feats(in any order): Toughness, Power Attack, Extend Spell, TWF, iTWF, gTWF, iCrit:Slashing, Khopesh feat, [insert feat here]

Build 2:
Paladin 20
34pt Build Human

Strength:16
Dexterity:15
Con:14
Intel:8
Wis:8
Char:16

Feats(in this order): Toughness, Khop prof, TWF, Power Attack, iCrit:slashing, iTWF, gTWF, extend spell

Questions:-what should i take for my 9th feat?
-should i even take a 2nd fighter level? No, you shouldn;t even take a 1st, IMO
Because dropping divine sacrifice 3 might be a terribad idea...maybe a monk level? DSII is nice
-it might just be me...but i always feel inclined to take toughness, but then again you are getting more DPS when you are alive, should i even take toughness? yes , for sure , pally toughness and racial toughnesses require it
-are scimitars better for a Paladin than a khopesh? nope
-I dont' get how ppl get their AC so dang high with a paladin....am i missing something? monk splash or S&B with aura and defender stance.
-Oh yeah and the saves, what's up with ppl telling me Paladins should have high saves? pallies get a bonus to all of their saves based on their charisma modifier at level 2, with a pally you should have a very high charisma.

[eulogy098]

Questions:-what should i take for my 9th feat?
-should i even take a 2nd fighter level? Because dropping divine sacrifice 3 might be a terribad idea...maybe a monk level?
-it might just be me...but i always feel inclined to take toughness, but then again you are getting more DPS when you are alive, should i even take toughness?
-are scimitars better for a Paladin than a khopesh?
-I dont' get how ppl get their AC so dang high with a paladin....am i missing something?
-Oh yeah and the saves, what's up with ppl telling me Paladins should have high saves?

Answers:-

-Rank 1 of Divine Sacrifice is all you really need. Further ranks don't do anything for your critical profile and the ap-per-damage-increase of rank 2 and 3 is not very efficient at all compared to rank 1. I don't recommend rank 2 and 3 for anyone.

- Fighter levels? nah. Paladin capstone is arguably the best melee in the game. Not only does it add a buttload of DPS but it also makes it so that paladins are the only class in the game that can use a handfull of epic weapons as DR breakers (such as esos and echaosblade). Capstone is very much worth it. I'd drop extend if you insist on the khopesh build. If you go thf drop khopesh. Now you no longer need those fighter levels at all. Definitely don't need the extra feats if you go human.

But, if your going to splash at all, make it monk, not fighter. Fighter benefits defender builds. not dps. Monk gets you evasion AND two more feats. far more efficient. But i still feel that pure is better. capstone is just that good.

-AC , by splashing monk and having Wisdom. This nets paladins a big potential armor class. not worth it imo, you have to sacrifice a ton of item slots in order to get end-game worthy ac, and even then your still hit in epics. Nuts to AC i say.

-Saves: paladins have outstanding saves because their Charisma score adds to their saves along with their standard modifiers (dex con and wis). So your reflex save is Dex modifier + Cha Modifier, rather then other classes whom only get their Dex Modifier. Paladin saves are beastly.


------other note: I don't really recommend half orcs as paladins. The large of the Half-Orc benefits are via enhancements. Paladins have extremely tight APs, picking up all of the worth-while paladin enhancements AND half-orc enhancements just doesn't really work very well.

[Alkot]

- Fighter levels? nah. Paladin capstone is arguably the best melee in the game. Not only does it add a buttload of DPS but it also makes it so that paladins are the only class in the game that can use a handfull of epic weapons as DR breakers (such as esos and echaosblade). Capstone is very much worth it. I'd drop extend if you insist on the khopesh build. If you go thf drop khopesh. Now you no longer need those fighter levels at all. Definitely don't need the extra feats if you go human.

How do you go about using a chaosblade on a pally?

[Alternative]

How do you go about using a chaosblade on a pally?

1. Get umd up to 30
2. Double click on (epic)Chaosblade
3. Profit :D

Rogue splash particularly allows to achieve standing 30 UMD without gear swapping. Nothing wrong with splashed paladins especially nowadays when awesome boss beaters can be crafted fairly easily, but 2ftr is rather bad comparing to 2mnk or 2rog. Also OP, wish you luck getting a +4 tome of your choice :)

[Kinerd]

Fighter splash also allows Haste Boost, which can make it a net DPS gain for TWF builds. Of course, you could do the same with Rogue and get Evasion instead of a couple bonus feats.

[FrozenNova]

Fighter splash also allows Haste Boost, which can make it a net DPS gain for TWF builds. Of course, you could do the same with Rogue and get Evasion instead of a couple bonus feats.

Or you take monk and do both.
If you're taking extend spell and a henceforth unknown feat, you don't need a fighter splash. Go pure, or splash for evasion.

[Kinerd]

Or you take monk and do both.
If you're taking extend spell and a henceforth unknown feat, you don't need a fighter splash. Go pure, or splash for evasion.Monk doesn't offer Haste Boost, more's the pity.

[Artos_Fabril]

How do you go about using a chaosblade on a pally?

My preference would be:
11 ranks
8 cha bonus (18 Cha (base+tomes), 6 item, 2 feat (enhancements))
6 triple air SP +cha skills GS
2 Good Luck
3 T3 Epic Spyglass or eBig Top or anything with "persuasion"

[Alkot]

My preference would be:
11 ranks
8 cha bonus (18 Cha (base+tomes), 6 item, 2 feat (enhancements))
6 triple air SP +cha skills GS
2 Good Luck
3 T3 Epic Spyglass or eBig Top or anything with "persuasion"

Still a neg but that seems relatively possible although some odd gearing to hit 30.

[fyzikx]

thx for the help everyone, but it was my understanding that TWF paladins were better than THF paladins, thats why they are both geared towards it. Double cirt sacrifices and smites on main and offhand animations is beastly if you get the timing right.

What is the difference between 16str at creation and 18str, is the difference a huge change to DPS? Because if not, then i think WF may be the better choice

[Enoach]

You are correct when a Smite is a Double Strike on Two Weapon Fighting it can be a significant boost to DPS.

Both TWF and THF builds usually do not stress AC while working in these modes.

One difference between both is the expense associated with needing two weapons vs one weapon.

What is the difference between starting with 16 and 18 Strength. If geared exactly the same and same point distribution it will amount to a difference of 1 To-Hit (5% on anything requiring more then a roll of 2 to hit). However, depending on if you use TWF or THF it can be a loss of 1(TWF) or 2-3(THF) points of Damage per hit.

THF Doubles the strength Modifier for Power Attack and THF adds 1.5 of the Strength modifier to its damage.

Another piece to consider - TWF against DR which is not being broken will lose ground against THF not breaking DR.


How does one get AC higher:

Gear - Dodge Bonus - Different #'s stack, +2/3 Dragon Touched +3 Chattering Ring, Icy Rainments (no armor used by Monk splash with Wisdom)
Combat Expertise +5
Definsive Stance from PrE +5
Shield (Large base is 2 Tower is 4 add Pluses from there 7 to 9)- Tower being more widely used for its higher AC bonus which user does not have to be proficent with
Adding Alchamal Ritual Bonus +1 to both Shield and Armor
Shield Spell - More then a Magic Missile blocker - Does not stack with Shield for AC bonus
Shield of Faith or Protection Item Max is +5
Barkskin spell +3 to +5 (Max only available Cast from a Ranger)
Paladin Aura of Balwark of Good +1 to +6 (+6 only available from a DoS)
PrE Bonus to MDB can add +1 to Heavy, Medium Armor and Even Tower Shields
Fighter/Dwarven Armor mastery - Add more Dex bonus to restrictive Armor/Shield. This is also available to Helf with Fighter Dil.
Dodge Feat only +1 requires a Base+Tome Dex of 13 to qualify - Generally used by those stressing AC as it can be seen as an expensive AC bonus.
Monk Splash - Wisdom bonus to AC - Requires a no armor/no shield approach to AC. Wisdom and Dex along with Gear become the cornerstone of its AC.



Choasblade UMD 20 for Non-Epic and 30 for Epic
A pure Paladin with capstone can really put this to good use. The benefits vs the -1 to Save/Attack/HP come out with the benefits winning out.

[fyzikx]

I dont know if it's out of date, but is a TWF paladin's to-hit a problem?

[Silverr]

I'd really like to know what to-hit value to aim for.

[Artos_Fabril]

Still a neg but that seems relatively possible although some odd gearing to hit 30.
Well, if you get another 2 points of Cha, you could do it with just a GH. Or you could drop either UMD item or Good Luck item with GH. and hit it at 2-4 lower Cha.

I dont know if it's out of date, but is a TWF paladin's to-hit a problem?
Only where virtually everyone's to-hit is a problem. In eBT or eDA, you might have to turn off PA on the boss, but you're still running Divine Favor for a +5 If you splash fighter or monk, you can free up a feat for OTWF, if you really feel the +2 to-hit is worth it. Being able to break DR with epic weapons is pretty nice, as is the slight advantage of anarchic burst silver of GLOB over Holy Burst Silver of GLOB against devil bosses, if your crafting is insanely high to get them.

[fyzikx]

aha now that i know pure is the way to go...i have the mind boggling decision of choosing which race
34pt build human
16
15
14
8
8
16

36pt build Horc
16
15
14
6
8
16

anyone have advice on which one you'd prefer and why?

[Kinerd]

thx for the help everyone, but it was my understanding that TWF paladins were better than THF paladins, thats why they are both geared towards it. Double cirt sacrifices and smites on main and offhand animations is beastly if you get the timing right.

What is the difference between 16str at creation and 18str, is the difference a huge change to DPS? Because if not, then i think WF may be the better choiceIn terms of damage, +1 Str bonus will be less than 1% of your DPS. In terms of to-hit, it will be 2% or so, but it will be really annoying.

[painkiller3]

aha now that i know pure is the way to go...i have the mind boggling decision of choosing which race

anyone have advice on which one you'd prefer and why?

i took the half-orc for my 34 point pally TR

i had a +2 dex tome and +2 cha tome so i started with

str - 18
dex - 15
con - 14
int - 6
wis - 8
cha - 14

and i took increases at level 4 and 8 to my charisma to make me eligible for Divine Might 3 (because DM4 is at level 20 and i don't know how long i'm going to stay at 20). i've enjoyed it so far, i'm confident that i will be doing decent DPS as we go forward...very happy with it so far...regarding feats i didn't take extend and i took the Barbarian past life one...otherwise my build is very similar to yours

[Artos_Fabril]

aha now that i know pure is the way to go...i have the mind boggling decision of choosing which race
34pt build human
16
15
14
8
8
16

36pt build Horc
16
15
14
6
8
16

anyone have advice on which one you'd prefer and why?
Sorry. confused a second there... 34 or 36 point build? Your HOrc stat line doesn't work with 34 points...

Given those choices, I'd go with human. Extra feat for khopesh, 2 extra skill points per level for balance and UMD