Greensteel - no thanks?

[tekkentroop]

Forgive me the controversial title, I mostly want to talk about GS weapons here.

I have been playing for about half a year now and dont have that much gametime, so I dont have a lot of larges to make double-shard greensteel. But with cannith crafting, I somehow feel that the necessity of having greensteel weapons has declined. Of course, green steel accessories with their stacking hp and sp are still top-notch and Ill try to make them for any higher level char, but at the moment, if somebody is low on larges, I think its smarter not to make any double-shard weapons (and single shard weapons arent really worth it except maybe triple pos) and spend all larges on accessories. I wonder if its even worth making the blanks..

The reasons:
-Its easy to reach useful levels in cannith crafting (35-40) and powergamers have already hit the cap and can craft greater banes
-holy banes are cheap to craft (about 25-30k plat for essences at going rates, also need some cheaper collectables)
-a silver weapon is the most expensive crafting ingredient, but still goes for less than a single large devil scale, far less if its not a khopesh

Do you still make dual-shard weapons? Do you think its still good to make two of them for every char? My bard certainly wont get any GS weapons in the near future...

[Dragavon]

Well, yes and no.

If you have a character with high enough crafting skill then yes, you can make weapons that are better than GS.

Getting that crafting skill requires a significant effort, and I think that for a player with limited playtime making GS weapons is easier than getting top crafted weapons.

And if you plan to TR, then nothing will ever beat taking GS weapons out of your reincarnation cache at lvl 12.

[lethargos]

I think crafting will eventually reduce amount of MinII's. I dont see it affecting other Gs crafting that much. You just cant make most of Gs effects in cannith crafting.

[Micron]

Not planning to replace any of my GS weapons with any crafted weapon anytime soon.

Love my min IIs. They're min level 12 (as already pointed out). I can smack just about anything in the game with them with good results and don't have to carry around an arsenal of stuff for every occasion. They're keen and allow some builds to save a feat. They give me Stoneskin.

Can you cannith craft a rad II, an essential dual shard weapon for rogues? An earth grab weapon? Can you put +2 stat or +4 AC on cannith crafted weapons?

In other words: GS - yes thanks. And yes, dual shard items are very much worth crafting. :)

[karnokvolrath]

This comes down to what you want, what you need, and what you want for "toys".

Would i ever make a min2 again? NO. I mostly play THF's anyway so the epic antique greataxe already did this for me, but now i wouldnt do it for any charicter build. For some they are still viable, they will basically become the "cheep version to break DR, i find that funny, but hey, it is what it is.

Lit2, yes...i <3 lightning strike.

I think you may start to see an increase in triple fire/triple water weapons now that ING are free from min2 greensteel.

OH look a mummy *breaks out new "toy"*

Fire Memphits? Got just the thing for them :D

[PrincessK]

I love both methods of crafting. Options are good.

[grodon9999]

Well, yes and no.

If you have a character with high enough crafting skill then yes, you can make weapons that are better than GS.

Getting that crafting skill requires a significant effort, and I think that for a player with limited playtime making GS weapons is easier than getting top crafted weapons.

And if you plan to TR, then nothing will ever beat taking GS weapons out of your reincarnation cache at lvl 12.

Being able to craft holy bane weapons takes a fraction of the time needed to grind the larges needed for a tier III, you can't even compare the two.

I dont' see much reason to craft Mineral IIs anymore, lightnings on the other hand . . .

[English_Warrior]

While cannith crafting does have the ability to produce some great items, it certainly isn't going to replace Greensteel.

1) You can't craft anything close to a Lit 2 or Rad II for trash killing.
2) Silver Holy of GEOB are great, but Min II are still going to be ahead on some elite difficulty bosses.
3) Cannith crafting is WAY more grindy than greensteel (especially after about level 50).
4) GS are always min level 11/12...good crafted items can have very high (often ridiculous) min levels.
5) You can't craft many top tier guards/exceptional stats/clickies with cannith crafting.

[dkyle]

2) Holy of GEOB are great, but Min II are still going to be ahead on some elite difficulty bosses.

Why would you make a Holy of GEOB when you could make a Holy Burst Silver of GEOB for very little extra cost, especially compared to the insane cost of the grind to level enough for GEOB?

That is much, much better than MinII vs. Devil bosses, no matter the difficulty (unless you will actually benefit from the Keen, of course).

MinII is very nice vs. the Demon Queen, but are you really going to make a whole dual-shard just to gain a little damage against her?


3) Cannith crafting is WAY more grindy than greensteel (especially after about level 50).

Yes, but you only need level 35 in Arcane and Divine to match or beat a MinII vs. Devil Bosses via a +4 Holy Silver of EOB. That is very easy to do, much easier than Shroud grinding for even a single shard GS. And the grind is once per account per server, not once per item.


4) GS are always min level 11/12...good crafted items can have very high (often ridiculous) min levels.

Yes, but a LitII equals or exceeds MinII in level 12 content. Not much cause for a Devil Boss beater until level 16 or so, and a +4 Holy Silver EOB is ML 15.

[Emizand]

if you plan to TR, then nothing will ever beat taking GS weapons out of your reincarnation cache at lvl 12.


This

[articwarrior]

Imo the only thing that may go away is min II because there are several types of metals and then you could put holy and GEOB on it (even if it is ML 20 (they're gonna fix that)) so... let's compare then

a +5 Holy Silver Greataxe of Greater Evil Outsider Bane*

to

Min II Greataxe (holy, acid, acid)

HSGEOB = 5+1d12+1d6+3d6+4 on average 29.5 damage

Min II = 5+3d6+1d6+1d6+(2d10*.1)+(2d10*.1)+1d4 on average 25.6 damage

*This does not include criticals

[Dragavon]

Being able to craft holy bane weapons takes a fraction of the time needed to grind the larges needed for a tier III, you can't even compare the two.

I dont' see much reason to craft Mineral IIs anymore, lightnings on the other hand . . .

That entirely depends. For a veteran player with many lvl 20's loaded with plat then yes, it is easy to buy essences/deconstructables and get a decent crafting skill.

But I dare say that for a new player working his way into high levels it will be easier to get ingreds for a min II than get high enough levels in crafting and obtaining a silver blank to make a crafted weapon that is better than a min II.

FYI, my main dualwields +5 holy burst silver greater bane khopeshes now ;)

I still use the min II's and radiance peshes too :cool:

[Gkar]

My Lit II destroys most content starting at L12.

How many holy/GB weapons do you need to destroy the same variety of content?
What are their MLs?

Yes, end game vs devils a holy/GLOB is a nice toy that beats out a MinII, but a Min II and a LitII are utility weapons usable on pretty much any enemy from mid level right through endgame.

Also a RadII is and will always be the toy of choice for rogues.

[dkyle]

That entirely depends. For a veteran player with many lvl 20's loaded with plat then yes, it is easy to buy essences/deconstructables and get a decent crafting skill.

But I dare say that for a new player working his way into high levels it will be easier to get ingreds for a min II than get high enough levels in crafting and obtaining a silver blank to make a crafted weapon that is better than a min II.

Level 35 in Arcane and Divine is not hard to get, even for a new player. I barely spent any plat at all on essences getting there; it was all essences from chests/end-rewards and deconstructions.

And a single Shroud run can be expected to provide enough plat-worth of ingredients to buy a silver blank of anything but Handwraps (which are besides the point in comparing to GS).

A +4 Holy Silver of EOB strikes me as hugely easier to get, for a new player, than a MinII.

[Dragavon]

Level 35 in Arcane and Divine is not hard to get, even for a new player. I barely spent any plat at all on essences getting there; it was all essences from chests/end-rewards and deconstructions.

And a single Shroud run can be expected to provide enough plat-worth of ingredients to buy a silver blank of anything but Handwraps (which are besides the point in comparing to GS).

A +4 Holy Silver of EOB strikes me as hugely easier to get, for a new player, than a MinII.

A silver blank in a good weapon type costs several 100k on the AH on Ghallanda. You do not get that from one Shroud run.

I do not agree on anything you say here tbh.

[dkyle]

A silver blank in a good weapon type costs several 100k on the AH on Ghallanda. You do not get that from one Shroud run.

I do not agree on anything you say here tbh.

Suppose Shroud ingredients run about 400k for Scale, 200k for stone, 100k for Shrap, 50k for the others. That gives 141k expected per run, which is reasonable for at least a Greatsword on the Khyber AH from what I've seen. Another run and you've got a Falchion or Khopesh. That's two out of the expected 18 Shroud completions for a MinII.

And as for grind of 35 levels of Arcane/Divine vs grind for a MinII... based on my experience, the Cannith crafting was so much easier and shorter than the grind for a dual-shard GS that I'm having trouble understanding where you're coming from. It wasn't even comparable. And then factor in all the other weapons I've gotten out of it for almost free...

[Boegvar]

You dont need to spend much time to be able to craft a weapon that does well hitting devils, a +4 Holy Silver of (G/E)ob will do fine if you have the ic feat. Crafting such a weapon cost not as much time, as getting the components of a min2 weapon, and you can craft it before you reach the shroud, so there wont be an excuse not to have a harry beater once you are flagged for shroud. If you need a weapon for the demon queen, just craft a holy silver of eob.
There wont be many weapons that can be compared to lit2, so lit2 is worth crafting. You dont need min2 at level 12, lit2 will be ok.

I bought 2 silver khopeshes in the ah and spent no more than 5K plat each, maybe im lucky, but just check it regularly there will be many cheap weapons.

[QuantumFX]

Favorite Single shard weapons:

Triple Earth - Prople seem to think that, since the changes to helplessness, that this weapon has, somehow, become “useless”. They couldn’t be more wrong. Yes, you lose autocrits, but you gain helplessness damage on constructs, and undead. And it’s absolutely rediculous damage on a demon.
Triple Positive - With the one exception of the doomsphere in Ghosts of Perdition, you don’t need any other undead weapons.


Favorite Dual shard weapons:

Lightning II - Great general purpose mob beater. The only reason to craft over this is for mobs with a special DR and stuff that is *really* hard to hit.
Radiance II - Great damage *and* damage mitigation on a single weapon? Yes, please!

[Doganpc]

Don't think you can craft the equivalent to a concordant opposition item either... Besides, Shroud runs are one of the best for crafting materials so why not do both?

Dogan
Probably missed the previous person who posted this.

[LordPiglet]

GS is superior for TR's, slot consolidation and extra effects.

That said, I have 2 silver kopeshes I'll eventually strip to base and add holy burst glob

[CassandraR]

A silver blank isn't necessarily going to cost hundreds of thousands of plat. I found a nice silver Falchion for my THF paladin for about 1200 plat.

[cforce]

Personally, I'll probably never craft another GS weapon.

If you've got the time to invest, top tier GS options can't be replicated by Cannith crafting.

If you're like me, and have 10 alts, with only ~30-40 Shrouds *ever* across all of them, Cannith crafting offers very good options for outfitting *many* characters with close-to-greensteel-damage equivalents, for less of time investment than crafting 2 dual-shard GS weapons.

[grodon9999]

Getting that crafting skill requires a significant effort, and I think that for a player with limited playtime making GS weapons is easier than getting top crafted weapons.


In two days I was able to craft better devil-beaters than mineral IIs. It is WAY LESS WORK to get your crafting pimped than to grind the larges for a single GS item. it's not even close.

[Krago]

In two days I was able to craft better devil-beaters than mineral IIs. It is WAY LESS WORK to get your crafting pimped than to grind the larges for a single GS item. it's not even close.

Two days of gameplay? Meaning 48 hours logged onto DDO? Or two days, Monday-Tuesday?

[icepick320]

Imo the only thing that may go away is min II because there are several types of metals and then you could put holy and GEOB on it (even if it is ML 20 (they're gonna fix that)) so... let's compare then

a +5 Holy Silver Greataxe of Greater Evil Outsider Bane*

to

Min II Greataxe (holy, acid, acid)

HSGEOB = 5+1d12+1d6+3d6+4 on average 29.5 damage

Min II = 5+3d6+1d6+1d6+(2d10*.1)+(2d10*.1)+1d4 on average 25.6 damage

*This does not include criticals
Min2 5+3d6+2d6+1d6+1d6+1d4=25 u cant get .6 damige a hit
+5HSGEOB 9+3d6+3d6+2d6=31 damige a hit

Min2 crits 15+9d6+6d6+3d6+3d6+3d4=84 averige damige on crits
+5HSGEOB 27+9d6+9d6+6d6=98 averige damige on crits

Min2 84*0.05=4.2, if u add keen its 8.4.
+5HSGEOB 98*0.05=4.9

Min2 25+8.4=34.4 base damige a hit including crits
+5HSGEOB 31+4.9=35.9 damige a hit including crits

the +5HSGEOB wep deals 1.5 more damige a hit but has no stone skin clicke. If u made it holy burst and had the improved critical slashing weapon feat itd be 6-7 more damige hit. But the min2 can break more DR and the +5HSGEOB wep would only be better vs EO.

[dkyle]

Min2 5+3d6+2d6+1d6+1d6+1d4=25 u cant get .6 damige a hit
+5HSGEOB 9+3d6+3d6+2d6=31 damige a hit

Min2 crits 15+9d6+6d6+3d6+3d6+3d4=84 averige damige on crits
+5HSGEOB 27+9d6+9d6+6d6=98 averige damige on crits

Min2 84*0.05=4.2, if u add keen its 8.4.
+5HSGEOB 98*0.05=4.9

Min2 25+8.4=34.4 base damige a hit including crits
+5HSGEOB 31+4.9=35.9 damige a hit including crits

the +5HSGEOB wep deals 1.5 more damige a hit but has no stone skin clicke. If u made it holy burst and had the improved critical slashing weapon feat itd be 6-7 more damige hit. But the min2 can break more DR and the +5HSGEOB wep would only be better vs EO.

Lot of problems with those numbers. You appear to have an extra d6 for MinII, and a non-GS Greataxe is 1d12 base, not 3d6. Your crit numbers are multiplying things that don't get multiplied on crits (like holy damage, and bane damage).

And then, the only useful comparison is vs. Devil bosses, where the Acid damage won't apply. And why assume no imp. crit? Few characters that care enough about melee to craft dual-shard GS weapons won't have Imp. Crit, and those that really don't have it, obviously would want a MinII. And if you don't assume imp. crit, you can't have a meaningful comparison without incorporating a character's total base damage. With imp. crit, base damage cancels out.

[grodon9999]

Two days of gameplay? Meaning 48 hours logged onto DDO? Or two days, Monday-Tuesday?

Two evenings, you only need level 27 Divine.

To get to the point of make the +4 Holyburst Silver of GLOB took me abut 2 weeks and 2-3 million plat. Still WAY LESS TIME than grinding out a Mineral II.

[samho]

Imo the only thing that may go away is min II because there are several types of metals and then you could put holy and GEOB on it (even if it is ML 20 (they're gonna fix that)) so... let's compare then

a +5 Holy Silver Greataxe of Greater Evil Outsider Bane*

to

Min II Greataxe (holy, acid, acid)

HSGEOB = 5+1d12+1d6+3d6+4 on average 29.5 damage

Min II = 5+3d6+1d6+1d6+(2d10*.1)+(2d10*.1)+1d4 on average 25.6 damage

*This does not include criticals

Since when devil start taking acid damage? [EDIT] They do, just have resistance ... :)

And I would like to point out any crafter will make (and use) Holy Burst long before they are able to make GEoB.

And dev already stats that they won't change the ML 20 stuff (unless they decide to raise the level cap).

[kernal42]

Yes and no.

Cannith crafting at level ~35 entirely surpasses MinII weapons (except against DQ), such that MinII is, for most players, no longer worth crafting.
Cannith crafting lets you make near-ideal weapons for specific purposes. A LitII greensteel is very nearly the ideal weapon for almost every circumstance, and is therefore still a very strong choice (also ML 12!).

Cheers,
Kernal

[tekkentroop]

thanks all for the constructive answers.

what I learned out of the answers:

-mid lvl crafting (35-40) allows for weapons that make getting a min II obsolete by being almost as good and a lot easier to acquire. If you already have a min II, its still very good since it has a low min lvl for TR, is better against trash and you dont need many weapon sets.

-high level crafting outclasses min II against devil and demon raid bosses - but you need 2 different sets (cold iron and silver). Its questionable if making a demon beater is worth the trouble, but its still cheaper than a min II.

-Lit II and Rad II are still better general trash beaters than crafted weapons.


my personal conclusion as casual player with 17 shroud completions:

I wont bother making any tier III double-shard greensteel weapons anytime soon, and will spend all my larges on greensteel accessories for my two main chars. Ill make holy silver banes and try to upgrade them as my crafting level gets better.

Before cannith crafting, GS weapons were practically necessary in endgame content because they outclassed more available weapons (metalline of pure good, which has become worthless now). This is not the case anymore.

[Dragavon]

Not at all a bad conclusion ;)

[Ungood]

Well, I have no idea about anyone else, but I started to run Shroud to get the essences to work on my Crafting Levels (12 boxes a run is sweet!) and by the time I could make a Holy EOB, I had made 2 MinII's, a Double Pos (still need the Shard for a trip pos) for an alt, and 2 other GS accessories.

[kernal42]

-mid lvl crafting (35-40) allows for weapons that make getting a min II obsolete by being almost as good and a lot easier to acquire. If you already have a min II, its still very good since it has a low min lvl for TR, is better against trash and you dont need many weapon sets.


Not quite (exact numbers depend on weapon type):
A +4 holy silver of LOB weapon (crafting level <35) is better against devil bosses than a MinII by a few damage/hit.
A +4 holy cold iron of COB weapon (crafting level <35) is worse against the demon queen than a MinII by a few damage/hit.

IMO, Cannith weapons make MinII obsolete by being better against almost all enemies with difficult (two-type) DR.

-Kernal

[NeoVidGITP]

But I dare say that for a new player working his way into high levels it will be easier to get ingreds for a min II than get high enough levels in crafting and obtaining a silver blank to make a crafted weapon that is better than a min II.


Getting to the crafting level it takes to make Holy Bane weapons took my crafter about 3 hours dedicated to crafting, with less than 300 items deconned, with all of those items being ones that would have been worth less than 1500 plat if they were sold.

The silver blank is the hard part, I admit.

[Dragavon]

Well, I have no idea about anyone else, but I started to run Shroud to get the essences to work on my Crafting Levels (12 boxes a run is sweet!) and by the time I could make a Holy EOB, I had made 2 MinII's, a Double Pos (still need the Shard for a trip pos) for an alt, and 2 other GS accessories.

Which is what I have been saying all along here. The other vets underestimate the effort needed to get crafting levels for a new player :D

[Feithlin]

Personally, I'll probably never craft another GS weapon.

If you've got the time to invest, top tier GS options can't be replicated by Cannith crafting.

If you're like me, and have 10 alts, with only ~30-40 Shrouds *ever* across all of them, Cannith crafting offers very good options for outfitting *many* characters with close-to-greensteel-damage equivalents, for less of time investment than crafting 2 dual-shard GS weapons.

This. The great thing about crafting is it allows to equip multiple characters without requiring an awful grinding for all of them. This allows to focus only on some specific items, which only exist on GS variants: +45 hp, +150 sp, +4 insight ac, and even more from dual shards: con opp, radiance, lightning strike, etc.
Cannith craft only gave some alternatives, and for this it's great. However, on my tank for example, I will still do a Min II khopesh for the insight bonus to ac. PPL always give the example of holy (burst) of (greater) eob, but that's only a very limited part of both cannith craft and gs (as it intends to replace min II).
Cannith crafting also gives some unique improvements, like battle skill or the possibility to slot a skill anywhere, etc. They complement each other well, they're not mutually exclusives.

[Rakian_Knight]

I haven't had a chance to mess with the new cannith crafting due to computer issues right before the update released however, just from what I've read, I will only be making Greensteel items that aren't weapons if for nothing else the skins will be different.

[EllisDee37]

But I dare say that for a new player working his way into high levels it will be easier to get ingreds for a min II than get high enough levels in crafting and obtaining a silver blank to make a crafted weapon that is better than a min II.I am an actual new player. I found it remarkably easy to level Cannith crafting up to the mid 30s, though I admit through impatience I've probably spent ~200k on buying essences (or loot to decon) from the ah as well as blanks for weapons. I've also crafted a bunch of useful gear -- blindness ward goggles of battle skill with a guild augment slot for extra sp is a personal favorite -- but the primary purpose has been for dr breakers.

My toons are level 16 thf, 12 twf, 11 s&b (the crafter) and 5 cleric. I already have the following weapons thanks to Cannith crafting:

+3 Holy Cold Iron Greatsword of Chaotic Outsider Bane
+4 Holy Silver Greatsword of Lawful Outsider Bane

+2 Holy Cold Iron Bastard Sword of Chaotic Outsider Bane
+3 Holy Silver Bastard Sword

Two +2 Holy Cold Iron Khopeshes of Chaotic Outsider Bane
One silver khopesh blank

I also have completely outfitted them all with Mauls/Warhammers that are adamantine for constructs and flametouched for undead, as well as vicious of everbright for ooze and rust monsters.

All this for 200k (at least 100k of which was spent purely because of impatience) on a first-lifer. The majority of my essences have come from deconning loot from quests I would have been running anyway. (I'm considering dropping ~100k for a second silver khopesh blank, though I'd really rather hold out for a cheaper one.)

As I understand it, without Cannith crafting I would be looking for four Min2s to replace my holy and cold iron weapons. (A falchion, two khopeshes and, er, a bastard sword?) Would grinding those four weapons really have been easier for me?

EDIT: For context, between all four characters I have a total of ~280k platinum right now.

[articwarrior]

Since when devil start taking acid damage? [EDIT] They do, just have resistance ... :)

And I would like to point out any crafter will make (and use) Holy Burst long before they are able to make GEoB.

And dev already stats that they won't change the ML 20 stuff (unless they decide to raise the level cap).

not all do, who said I was speaking about devils there are many other evil outsiders

[Jaid314]

Which is what I have been saying all along here. The other vets underestimate the effort needed to get crafting levels for a new player :D

well, let's think this through:

suppose one large devil scale can be quickly sold for 300k (on sarlona, this is true). suppose that it's around 500 plat to quickly buy most greater essences (again, on sarlona this is true).

that means for one devil scale you can get 600 greater essences (which, itself, is equivalent to 3,000 lesser essences). a min II requires 5 of those large devil scales (3,000 greaters). plus some stones, arrowheads, etc.

anyone who wants to claim it's faster to farm shroud for the materials to make a tier 3 greensteel is clueless. if you actually start deconstructing those ingredients (or even just sell your first few large shroud ingredients, or some of your greensteel blank ingredients) you will have enough to easily get up to level 31, at which point you can start attempting to make holy silver of LEOB. at level 32, you can start attempting to make holy cold iron of CEOB. this is not a difficult skill level to reach. unless you are utterly clueless, it is not going to be remotely close to the amount of time required to make a mineral II weapon.

mineral II is not totally useless, certainly, but it's vastly overpriced in the new reality.

[MsEricka]

Cannith crafting will never replace greensteel, only compliment it.

Try crafting an ML11 item that has 45HP, +5 protection, heavy fortification and +6 to CON skills. Heck forget the con skills, just try and match the other three effects. Heck just try and match two of those and keep the item ML11.

[Ungood]

Which is what I have been saying all along here. The other vets underestimate the effort needed to get crafting levels for a new player :D

My Personal feeling on crafting, is that it is not for the new player, at all. Beyond the sheer grind of wealth that is takes to get to any worthwhile rank, there is this whole system of what can be put on what and what happens when you do it, which can daunt anyone just trying to have some fun.

Not that GS is easy, mind you, but, as far as the crafting system goes, I have found it to be handy to twink my alts, and make some specialized weapons that can be used end game (which I gave to my twinked out alts), and ultimately just give a different grind towards that +6 Con GFL belt I want.

[Jaid314]

My Personal feeling on crafting, is that it is not for the new player, at all. Beyond the sheer grind of wealth that is takes to get to any worthwhile rank, there is this whole system of what can be put on what and what happens when you do it, which can daunt anyone just trying to have some fun.

Not that GS is easy, mind you, but, as far as the crafting system goes, I have found it to be handy to twink my alts, and make some specialized weapons that can be used end game (which I gave to my twinked out alts), and ultimately just give a different grind towards that +6 Con GFL belt I want.

again, this is largely the case only because the new players don't realize the wealth available to them.

grab every collectible, sell the ones worth a lot of plat (and there's still plenty of those). you can make good money selling vials of pure water, deadly feverblanch, etc.

deconstructing is also actually a great way to make money early on, too (and boosts your crafting skills). that acid touch dagger you have? you might sell it for 25 plat, OR you could deconstruct it and get 1-3 lesser essences and 0-1 greater essences (about a 33% chance at a greater). on average, that's probably worth ~250 plat, or maybe even more. you can actually gain money by crafting that way, if money is what you want. if you do this sort of thing consistently, deconstructing and selling the essences of what would otherwise be vendor trash, you'll have some decent crafting skills, and more money. if you keep your essences, you'll be able to get your skills up to decent levels without too much difficulty.

apparently someone disagrees with that (because i got neg rep for saying it earlier), but it's simply the truth. the amount of effort it takes to replace min II with cannith crafting is very low. other greensteel weapons (especially rad II for rogues and lit II for pretty much everyone) are still very worthwhile, but min II is simply too expensive to be worth it on a weapon when you can put a tiny fraction of the amount of effort it takes into cannith crafting and get a weapon that is comparable.

[icepick320]

Lot of problems with those numbers. You appear to have an extra d6 for MinII, and a non-GS Greataxe is 1d12 base, not 3d6. Your crit numbers are multiplying things that don't get multiplied on crits (like holy damage, and bane damage).

And then, the only useful comparison is vs. Devil bosses, where the Acid damage won't apply. And why assume no imp. crit? Few characters that care enough about melee to craft dual-shard GS weapons won't have Imp. Crit, and those that really don't have it, obviously would want a MinII. And if you don't assume imp. crit, you can't have a meaningful comparison without incorporating a character's total base damage. With imp. crit, base damage cancels out.

ahh ya i forgot about the non min2 GA being not 3d6 BD that would lower the numbers and i dont and 2d6 holy 1d6 acid burst 1d6 acid blast 1d4 slicing

[dkyle]

ahh ya i forgot about the non min2 GA being not 3d6 BD that would lower the numbers and i dont and 2d6 holy 1d6 acid burst 1d6 acid blast 1d4 slicing

Acid blast is 1d10 * (crit multiplier - 1) on crits, and 4d6 on vorpal strikes. It does not do 1d6 on all hits.

[Kinerd]

But I dare say that for a new player working his way into high levels it will be easier to get ingreds for a min II than get high enough levels in crafting and obtaining a silver blank to make a crafted weapon that is better than a min II.I think you drastically underestimate how long it takes to amass 24 specific large Shroud ingredients, especially for a new player who might not be able to afford to buy the exact right 24th they need to finish. Even if you run Shroud on every timer and get the exact ingredients you need (or the resources to purchase them), that's 24 * 3 / 1.5 = 48 days, about a month and a half, to get one Min II. Without spending 1 plat on essences or deconstruction fodder, I can already make +4 Holy LO Bane weapons for every single one of my alts, and crafting's only been out for 2 months.

For DR-breakers, there is just no competition.
Beyond the sheer grind of wealth that is takes to get to any worthwhile rank, there is this whole system of what can be put on what and what happens when you do it, which can daunt anyone just trying to have some fun.Compared to the greensteel system, where mistakes cannot be deconstructed in any way, I don't see how the Cannith system can be considered daunting.