pvp exploit

[Veriden]

Melees beware, sorc savant3 of ice does not need line of sight and can go through the walls in pvp areas so they can hide behind the wall at the back of the lobster and cast ice prison on you with out needing line of sight. This needs attention for it's a broken mechanic exploit being used for griefing.

[Quarterling]

Oh well.

[Nysrock]

Oh well.

This

[Dunklerlindwurm]

There is PvP in this Game?

[Kmnh]

The spell doesn't require line of sight. That's not an exploit.

[Veriden]

The spell doesn't require line of sight. That's not an exploit.

If you knew how dnd works, ALL spells need line of sight.

[kernal42]

If you knew how dnd works, ALL spells need line of sight.

This is verifiably false.

-Kernal

[heyytoi]

Melees beware, sorc savant3 of ice does not need line of sight and can go through the walls in pvp areas so they can hide behind the wall at the back of the lobster and cast ice prison on you with out needing line of sight. This needs attention for it's a broken mechanic exploit being used for griefing.

Same thing with song of capering.

[Bladedge]

Shouldnt this go into the PVP section of the forums where this post can be avoided.


There is PvP in this Game?

Yep when one player disagrees with another then we have PvP :)

[Vordax]

If you knew how dnd works, ALL spells need line of sight.

Really? How about teleport?

Vordax

[Beld]

Really? How about teleport?

Vordax

Or was that the old rule :D

[Memnir]

/shrug

[Veriden]

This is verifiably false.

-Kernal

Then by all means, name one aside from Teleport and its like spells of transportation. Preferably one that is in this game.

As for teleport and it's like spells if you haven't been to the location you're trying to get to theres a chance to teleport yourself into a wall.

And why I put it here instead of pvp forum is because it does not apply to soley pvp, but to quests and the like. Fact of the matter any "target" spell needs line of sight to function properly as this game lacks scrying devices that players can cast through, taking advantage of this flaw in design is indeed an exploit.

[kernal42]

Then by all means, name one aside from Teleport and its like spells of transportation. Preferably one that is in this game.


The false statement you made did not exclude Teleport, so that is a valid spell to use to demonstrate the invalidity of the statement.

There are, of course, others.

Scrying does not require line of sight (obviously; it would be useless otherwise).
Nightmare does not require line of sight.

There are even offensive spells implemented in DDO that do not require line of sight. For example:
Circle of Death and Wail of the Banshee both can affect targets that you do not have line-of-sight to.

Cheers,
Kernal

[Auran82]

If you knew how dnd works, ALL spells need line of sight.

Your face doesn't.

Thankfully.

[Dburg]

1) Unless the spell specifically says "....as long as the target has less then total concealment or total cover..." you can cast it.

2) You don't have to ATTEND a place to use Teleportation. You just need a clear mental image. So even a story about how it looks and descriptive information works.

3) Summon Monster I-IX, Symbol of Pain, most non-touch (ranged touch, etc.,) spells can be used un-sighted.

4) Errata-d out

5) Your DM's are pretty boring and un-adventurous to let you not use pointless spells through pointless walls

[kernal42]

4) So a blind wizard may not use any of it's spells? It has no Line of Sight.


Line-of-Sight is not the same as "able to see."

-Kernal

[weddingly]

there's just so many exploits in DDO pvp its pretty abysmal.
(exploits in pvp can be fun)

i dont really mind. the devs have other priorities. i hope one day they fix pvp but afaik, in every rpg pvp online ive tried, it takes ages to get pvp exploits fixed and balance right. enjoy while you can :)

[Flavilandile]

The only Fix needed in PvP is to fix PVP out of DDO. *grins*

Remember : PVP is an afterthought here, it's not a core part of the game, so why bother ?

If the spell is LOS, then there's a wall that not blocking... there's lots of that in quests too... And I'm not even starting on the Kilometer range Earthgrab from the Earth Elementals that hasn't been fixed for years.

If the Spell is not LOS it's WAI.

/shrug.

[Ivan_Milic]

With so much pve content ur doin pvp?

[Lissyl]

Wait...someone does something in pvp that seems 'cheesy' at best...and this comes as a SURPRISE to someone?

The entire population of pvp is BASED on looking for that 'key exploit'. Good lord, that's why so many of us despise it.

[mournbladereigns]

The PVP forum is that way >>

Lol PVP LOL

[weewoo0]

he's only mentioning it because it is a spell that is written and acts as if it should have a need for line of sight. AFAIK there are no direct damage spells in this game that are target-based that can be cast w/o line of sight. (well only if you don't count heal as direct damage)

[Lissyl]

he's only mentioning it because it is a spell that is written and acts as if it should have a need for line of sight. AFAIK there are no direct damage spells in this game that are target-based that can be cast w/o line of sight. (well only if you don't count heal as direct damage)


Not to nitpick (or perhaps we have different understandings of 'direct damage'), but one prominent example comes to mind -- firewall.

It's not ~required~ to be targetted, but it is capable of being targetted. At that point (once you target the mob) you can jump up in the air, turn 90+ degrees to the side, and then cast it. The mob is out of sight, but the firewall is layed in a direction that equals your direct left to your direct right. That's how you lay long firewalls on specific targets, like down corridors and whatnot.

[theboatman]

I can still cast Implosion while under the effect of Blindness, does that count?

[Ertay]

Melees beware, sorc savant3 of ice does not need line of sight and can go through the walls in pvp areas so they can hide behind the wall at the back of the lobster and cast ice prison on you with out needing line of sight. This needs attention for it's a broken mechanic exploit being used for griefing.

OP, you may not know this, but I think it is commonly agreed in this forums that you are supposed to keep your pvp related matters to the pvp forum where we can safely ignore it.

[Lyzern]

People do PvP in this game? The other day I went on my sorcerer Lv. 3 and killed a Lv. 9 Ranger in 3 shots, I don't understand how people can even play PvP here with this kinda stuff.

Disclaimer: I'm not complaining or even bragging about it, just stating that it's imbalanced and PvE is much, MUCH, MUCHHHHHHHH more fun imo.

[DoctorWhofan]

sorry. I don't understand the problem. There is one?

[darkrune]

If you knew how dnd works, ALL spells need line of sight.

Save you some hassle in the future if you can remember this little thing:

DDO does not equal D&D! Period. Not the same game, mechanics, or rules.

Another one to save you more hassles:

PvP < PvE

And one last thought, all conjuration spells in D&D do not require line of sight, otherwise AOE spells would be limited. Toss a fireball in a room, guy hiding behind the door is out of your line of sight yet still gets burned.

And that's the rest of the story. G'day.

[My2Cents]

If a spell is not working as written it should be bug-reported.

Pvp - if it was removed from DDO today I know I would not miss it.

[Zaodon]

Let me sum up this thread in pictures.

OP:
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c53/RPGamerd00d/panic.gif
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c53/RPGamerd00d/crysmall.gif
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c53/RPGamerd00d/dramaticprairiedog.gif

Responses:
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c53/RPGamerd00d/facepalm.jpg
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c53/RPGamerd00d/failed_2-1.jpg

The End:
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c53/RPGamerd00d/SnackFight.gif

[Lavek]

Melees beware, sorc savant3 of ice does not need line of sight and can go through the walls in pvp areas so they can hide behind the wall at the back of the lobster and cast ice prison on you with out needing line of sight. This needs attention for it's a broken mechanic exploit being used for griefing.

Icy prisons beware, sorc savant3 of ice does not need line of sight and can cast you through the walls in pvp areas so they can hide behind the wall at the back of the lobster and cast you on melees for griefing without needing line of sight. This needs attention, you are broken and will be hit by the devs.

[Lithic]

Really? How about teleport?

Vordax

You need line of sight to the target of your spell (you), not the target of your end location. ;)

[Rubiconn]

Couple of things:
I cast firewalls through doors all the time, sure part of it is on my side but the part that is doing the killing is on the other side behind a closed door, sleet storm does the same thing.

Second its only an exploit if you dont have a toon that can use it. If you dont like the sorcs using it on your melee roll up a sorc and use it on others. Then it becomes a tactic hehe.

Since PVP doesnt exist in DnD and should exist in DDO perhaps the walls in the PVP areas dont really exist and they are virtual. Since they dont really exist, they cant block and offer no hindrance for spell casting.

[weddingly]

i dont think we should knock down pvp or pvpers

pvp is a legitimate and extremely fun part of online rpgs
and no, it isn't just about discovering/using exploits. there's quite a great deal of strategic and tactical thinking that goes into building and playing your character. and its true, hunting humans is probably one of the most fun things you can do.

but.. good pvp is much harder to build than pve due to the need to remove exploits + balancing.
so if pve is enough to keep the coffers profitable, then maybe pvp can be put to one side for now.

[Uska]

If you knew how dnd works, ALL spells need line of sight.

No they don't and big deal anyways it's pvp who really cares.........:confused:

[Uska]

Then by all means, name one aside from Teleport and its like spells of transportation. Preferably one that is in this game.

As for teleport and it's like spells if you haven't been to the location you're trying to get to theres a chance to teleport yourself into a wall.

And why I put it here instead of pvp forum is because it does not apply to soley pvp, but to quests and the like. Fact of the matter any "target" spell needs line of sight to function properly as this game lacks scrying devices that players can cast through, taking advantage of this flaw in design is indeed an exploit.

This ddo stop trying to bring all the dnd rules in many of them are just unworkable here

[Hendrik]

No they don't and big deal anyways it's pvp who really cares.........:confused:

This ^

[LoveNeverFails]

Let me sum up this thread in pictures.

OP:
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c53/RPGamerd00d/panic.gif
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c53/RPGamerd00d/crysmall.gif
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c53/RPGamerd00d/dramaticprairiedog.gif

Responses:
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c53/RPGamerd00d/facepalm.jpg
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c53/RPGamerd00d/failed_2-1.jpg

The End:
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c53/RPGamerd00d/SnackFight.gif

this deserved to be reposted as a quote. It is precisely how i feel.

Had you mentioned this in say a PvE instance, perchance you'd get some better replies. but people can't see past the PvP.

Which is useless in this game. Go into a dungeon, do the same, then com back and whine.

http://s3.the-nri.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/apu-nahasapeemapetilon-simpsons.jpg

[Gkar]

Melees beware, sorc savant3 of ice does not need line of sight and can go through the walls in pvp areas so they can hide behind the wall at the back of the lobster and cast ice prison on you with out needing line of sight. This needs attention for it's a broken mechanic exploit being used for griefing.

DH also works through walls and its known to be WAI.

As far as we know it's not an exploit, that's how it works.

It's also not griefing since Turbine has clearly said in the past the only thing in PvP that is considered griefing is permanent duration CC without killing people. If you kill, its not griefing.

Sorry you are upset about getting owned in a part of the game that doesn't really matter.

[Rauven]

This

That

[adamkatt]

Melees beware, sorc savant3 of ice does not need line of sight and can go through the walls in pvp areas so they can hide behind the wall at the back of the lobster and cast ice prison on you with out needing line of sight. This needs attention for it's a broken mechanic exploit being used for griefing.

Dont come to gen ddo hoping for support for pvp. We dont care!!

Ddo needs to bring back kobald island and send all the pvpers there, never to escape!

PS thanks for the neg rep!!! You rock!

[cdbd3rd]

This ^


That

Indeed.

:cool:

[MartinusWyllt]

This ^

'n


That

with Rusty

[Dispel]

This is WAI and works fine. If you don't have the Reflex to save on the hold, or the resists/protection/HP to save on the damage, then don't fight any Water Savants.. UMD Fire Shield and make the save you'll take like no damage.

[Dragavon]

Melees beware, sorc savant3 of ice does not need line of sight and can go through the walls in pvp areas so they can hide behind the wall at the back of the lobster and cast ice prison on you with out needing line of sight. This needs attention for it's a broken mechanic exploit being used for griefing.

I dont care in any way whatsoever :D

[Gkar]

If you knew how dnd works, ALL spells need line of sight.

Incorrect. But even if you were right, do you really want to go by the book for spells? That means ranged spells would need to make a touch attack much of time. Oh wait, we don't even have a touch AC implimented in game. Most healing spells would also be touch range only. Damage spells would hit friend and foe alike. You could not stand on top of a friendly player and swing with them, you would have to be 5ft apart.

Seriously, attacking someone's D&D knowledge in this case is just sad.

[kernal42]

Incorrect. But even if you were right, do you really want to go by the book for spells? That means ranged spells would need to make a touch attack much of time. Oh wait, we don't even have a touch AC implimented in game. Most healing spells would also be touch range only. Damage spells would hit friend and foe alike. You could not stand on top of a friendly player and swing with them, you would have to be 5ft apart.

Seriously, attacking someone's D&D knowledge in this case is just sad.

That's not entirely fair. All the changes you list are deliberate changes made so that the system works in a video game format. Requiring line-of-sight for many spells (ie finger of death) has, equally deliberately, remained, and because it is still a good design choice.

Probably requiring line of sight for the savant abilities is still the correct design decision.
However, the motivation for this must be in persuit of "good game design," not "because SRD said so."

Cheers,
Kernal

[hityawithastick]

Cold savants are widely acknowledged as the best single-target DPS casters in the game. Don't fight them.

[karnokvolrath]

THis thread is very confuzing to me...whats pvp?

[Trillea]

THis thread is very confuzing to me...whats pvp?

Currently, it's a testbed for new abilities. Someone conveniently found out for us that you do not need line-of-sight for the new ice savant ability! Thank you, OP! :p

[sirdanile]

Ignoring the whole pvp part, can you icy prison enemies through barriers or doors in quests? If yes then with the type of spell it is I do see an issue that needs fixing.

[BlackyLigar]

The false statement you made did not exclude Teleport, so that is a valid spell to use to demonstrate the invalidity of the statement.

There are, of course, others.

Scrying does not require line of sight (obviously; it would be useless otherwise).
Nightmare does not require line of sight.

There are even offensive spells implemented in DDO that do not require line of sight. For example:
Circle of Death and Wail of the Banshee both can affect targets that you do not have line-of-sight to.

Cheers,
Kernal

last time i checked teleport was self cast only. umm if u dont have line of sight to yourself..... get blindness immunity?

cod wotb what's next on your list? delayed blast fb? rly now rattling of the proximity effects is not nearly a valid answer.