First Greensteel Item?

[Deanarth]

So I just flagged myself for The Shroud and did the Altar of Fercundity (that spelled right?) trial. So now it looks like I get to start the Greensteel crafting process. I started researching first and am just a tad bit overwhelmed by it all, so I figured a good place to start to ask what's a good first Greensteel item to craft? Seems it would be a weapon, but not sure.

My character is a 16th elven fighter Kensai that specializes in scimitars. Any suggestions would be appreciated. I'd also mention I've heard of Lit II and Min II, but I actually don't know what that means (is it even greensteel crafting?). Thanks!

[Sarisa]

tihocan's planner (http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~delallea/ddo/shroud/) is the easiest way to learn what you can do with Greensteel. You select the accessory or weapon type, then build up to the Shroud part 5 altar. That will give you the full list of options available to you.

You can then select which particular properties, and it'll automatically de-select anything that is incompatible with that choice. Then, you just select your desired properties until you can't select anything else. Finally, click the "How do I craft this item" link at the bottom to get the recipes.

A common choice for a first weapon is a "Lightning II". Choose Lightning Strike in the specials part of the damage section. Then you can either do Holy, Shocking Blast, and Shocking Burst; or Shock, Good Burst, and Shocking Blast. There are other options, but they aren't typically recommended by most DPS experts.

A Lightning II weapon is an excellent trash mob killer, and also is one of the best weapons to use when fighting raid bosses, aside from Queen Lailat and the Black Abbot (who are immune to lightning) on normal difficulty.

For hard/elite difficulty, most recommend a Mineral II weapon. Note that if you ever plan on using the "Cannith Crafting" system, you can make weapons (+4 Holy Silver X of Greater Lawful Outsider Bane for devil bosses) that match or even exceed a Mineral II weapon's power.

If you still want to make a Mineral II, you would choose Mineral II in the Misc section, then Holy, Acid Burst, and Acid Blast. Again, there are other options but most people don't use them.

Finally, don't neglect an HP item. The Greensteel HP properties stack, so you can make an item that gives you an additional 45 HP. It's commonly done on a Mineral II helmet, which also gives you Heavy Fortification (and can replace your Minos). For that, start with Heavy Fortification in the Misc section, then you basically have no other choices.

[Deanarth]

I'm working on cannith crafting as well (iirc I'm at 34/26/24) so I have a little ways to go still to get a weapon of the caliber (plus the silver scimitar I haven't had the fortune to see on the AH for cheap yet).

But based on what you're saying, just to make sure I understand.
+4 Holy Silver Scimitar of Greater Lawful Outsider Bane. Which should be 1d6+4 +2d6 holy + 3d6 greater bane (with another +3 att/damage for the greater bane. And this is actually better than Greensteel? Just looking at the mats for the Lit II weapon from that link, looks like alot of farming (not even sure where to get most of that stuff). I have some of the mats for the blank, so looks like a place to start at least.

[PNellesen]

It's commonly done on a Mineral II helmet, which also gives you Heavy Fortification (and can replace your Minos). For that, start with Heavy Fortification in the Misc section, then you basically have no other choices.

On this same topic, I've been pondering what GS HP item to craft for my Ranger, and had considered a helmet, but didn't want to lose the 20HP from Toughness on his Minos. I'm leaning heavily towards bracers (already have a Min II weapon) and making it single-shard instead of dual-shard. Any drawbacks to this?

[Tembyr]

A weapon always seems a good choice to craft first and I did so for other characters, but for my less sturdy melee (drow TWF paladin) I chose to go with an HP item first. A dead melee does no damage even with the most powerful weapon. As you are an elf and have taken a hit to constitution this might also apply to you.

[stille_nacht]

id say the planner http://perfectweb.org/ddo/crafting/base_crafting.php is easier, simply because you can input what end ability you want if you are newer to crafting, but they are both good.

id suggest lit II (select aspect of lightning II for the bonus effects), which is a +5 holy/shocking burst/ shockblast+acidblast scimitar, extra effect- ~2% chance, on-hit, ~650 lightning damage.

this will do more vs. normal pit fiends and almost all trash. min II is better vs. hard/elite pit fiends, eLailat, and constructs immune to lightning

[Phemt81]

Mandatory in these realms for melee toons:

http://perfectweb.org/ddo/crafting/base_crafting.php?base=41&tier1=12&tier2=79&tier3=187&tier4=192&bonus1=6&bonus2=33&altC=0

The cookie cutter for all but monks/warforged:

http://perfectweb.org/ddo/crafting/base_crafting.php?base=15&tier1=71&tier2=143&tier3=179&tier4=0&bonus1=19&bonus2=48&altC=0

Hope you find these useful :)

[Deanarth]

On this same topic, I've been pondering what GS HP item to craft for my Ranger, and had considered a helmet, but didn't want to lose the 20HP from Toughness on his Minos. I'm leaning heavily towards bracers (already have a Min II weapon) and making it single-shard instead of dual-shard. Any drawbacks to this?

Yea, stacking with the Minos would be nice, but do they stack?

Also. What are shards? Don't remember reading about those.

[Sarisa]

Shards of Power are one of the items that drop in the Shroud, and are required for crafting. The basics of Greensteel crafting are:

Create your item blank from a Shavarath Signet Stone and the Vale quest ingredients (Petals, Funk, and the like). You will need to buy Power Cells from the NPC beside the altar in Meridia. For some weapon types, you may also need to purchase a Splintered Horn from the auction house (they drop in the Shroud only), and use that INSTEAD of a Power Cell in the final step of creating the weapon. Both planners make it clear when you use a Horn instead of a Power Cell.
Inside the Shroud, at each of the altars, you will combine 4 ingredients with a power cell (they are different cells from the Meridia ones, and each cell is unique to each altar), and create a crafted ingredient. You will end up making an essence (material or ethereal), a gem (escalation), and an essence (positive, earth, fire, negative, etc).
You then combine the three crafted ingredients with an appropriate Shard of Power, which are bound items that drop in the Shroud. Then you combine the powered up Shard with your item, and it'll apply the stats based on the three crafted ingredients you used.
You repeat steps 2 and 3 at each of the altars in the Shroud.
For some tier 3 aspects, they are powerful enough that you charge up two Supreme Shards of Power, and combine the two shards together before applying it to your item. This doubles the ingredient cost.


Each complete "single shard" item will require:
1 Signet Stone
12 Vale quest ingredients, the exact quantity of each depends on the specific item you create
4 Energy Cells OR 3 Energy Cells and either a Medium or Large Splintered Horn.

1 Shard of Power
12 Small Shroud ingredients, the exact quantity of each depends on what specific aspects you want on your item
5 Low Energy Cells, which drop in the Shroud and can be bought from the skeleton after part 3 (the puzzles).

1 Shard of Great Power
12 Medium Shroud ingredients, again how many of each depends on what you are making.
5 Medium Energy Cells, which drop either charged or uncharged, or are bought uncharged in part 3. To charge them, you put the empty cell and a weapon with a total modifier (located in the upper right corner of the weapon's description) of +6 or higher into the second tier (part 3) altar in the Shroud and it'll consume the item to charge the cell.

1 Shard of Supreme Power
12 Large Shroud ingredients
5 Large Energy Cells, which drop uncharged, or are bought uncharged in part 3. To charge these cells, you need to use a weapon with a total modifier of +8 or higher in the third tier (after completion in part 5) altar.

For the more powerful items, like Lightning II, Mineral II, Radiance II weapons, and Mineral II (heavy fortification) and Concordant Opposition accessories, you need to make a dual shard item. Thus you would need

Another 1 Shard of Supreme Power
Another 12 Large Shroud ingredients
Another 5 Large Energy Cells.

This is one of the reasons that large ingredients become a bottleneck. You only have a 50% chance of getting a large ingredient after part 4, and you have a guaranteed large (unless you get a Large Splintered Horn instead) after part 5.

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Greensteel HP bonuses stack with almost everything. The only things they don't stack with are the same bonus on Greensteel, and the elemental energy Sovereign Rune in Dragontouched armour.

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A popular single shard 45 HP item I see is triple Earth, +45 HP, +6 CON skills (Concentration), Earthgrab Guard, Stoneskin clickie. Another option is Crushing Wave Guard, 45 HP, +6 STR skills, Panacea clickie. Yet another option is +45 HP, +6 DEX skills, Air Guard, Haste clickie.

If you plan on running a lot of epics, I would probably go with a dual shard MinII helm, then slot Toughness into a Green epic augment. The u9 Thaark Bracers are a temporary stopgap item for Toughness. If not, then there really is no problem with sticking with Minos.

Just note that the bracer slot is not always ideal for a melee, or even an archer. Bracers of the Glacier (for the Fire Shield: Cold trigger) or Levik's Bracers (for the 20% Healing Amp) are popular non-epic items. The epic Claw set, and the epic Abishai set are also very popular options for the bracer slot.

--

Both planners are good. I like tihocan's (umontreal) best when I want to see what is available, and to have a full view of what options I have. jjflanigan's (perfectweb) is best when you know you want, say a Triple Positive, and can just go and select those aspects fast.

[Deanarth]

If you plan on running a lot of epics, I would probably go with a dual shard MinII helm, then slot Toughness into a Green epic augment. The u9 Thaark Bracers are a temporary stopgap item for Toughness. If not, then there really is no problem with sticking with Minos.

That part about the Green epic augment. I have an understanding of everything at this point (thank you all!) aside from that specific item. I'm not sure what Augments are.

[Sarisa]

That part about the Green epic augment. I have an understanding of everything at this point (thank you all!) aside from that specific item. I'm not sure what Augments are.

Most epic items have augment slots. They're coloured, and each colour accepts certain types of enhancements. The 'Toughness' ability can go into the green, blue, or violet slots in epic items. I wouldn't worry about that for a good while. Work on your Greensteel first, and get some raid experience.

That particular part of the reply was mainly for PNellesen's question.

[Matuse]

That part about the Green epic augment. I have an understanding of everything at this point (thank you all!) aside from that specific item. I'm not sure what Augments are.

All (I think) epic armors have a Blue Slot, and several accessory items have green slots (which will accept blue epic augments).

One of the options for a blue is Toughness, which is identical to what the Minos Legens provides.

If/When the Crystal Cove event comes back, you could get the tier3 epic cavalry plate, or one of the easier phiarlan armors and epic that up for the blue slot.

[Deanarth]

So I crafted the Blank for my first greensteel item (+5 Greensteel Scimitar). Now taking donations for second part :)

But the question I have is, if I apply a Force Ritual to it, then add Holy to it, does it lose the Force Ritual effect? Thanks.

[Matuse]

Shroud upgrades to GS blanks have no interaction of any kind with stone of change recipes.

[pal_sch]

But based on what you're saying, just to make sure I understand.
+4 Holy Silver Scimitar of Greater Lawful Outsider Bane. Which should be 1d6+4 +2d6 holy + 3d6 greater bane (with another +3 att/damage for the greater bane. And this is actually better than Greensteel? Just looking at the mats for the Lit II weapon from that link, looks like alot of farming (not even sure where to get most of that stuff). I have some of the mats for the blank, so looks like a place to start at least.Just to clear this up;

The Holy Silver of Outsider Bane weapons are used to break the good + silver damage resistance that pit fiends have. These are the final bosses of several common raids, including the Shroud itself.

Previously the MinII was the best for this particular task, so characters running Shroud lots were encouraged to make one early. The LitII does more overall damage than the MinII, but doesn't break DR.

Now though the HSOB weapons can outdamage then MinII against the pit fiends on Hard and Elite (when the immunities to their secondary effects and DR breaking matters) so you can go straight to a LitII for use against everything else. The HSOB weapons aren't any use against anything that isn't an outsider (or, for the greaters, a lawful/chaotic outsider) so greensteel is still better in every other situation.

[Dragavon]

On this same topic, I've been pondering what GS HP item to craft for my Ranger, and had considered a helmet, but didn't want to lose the 20HP from Toughness on his Minos. I'm leaning heavily towards bracers (already have a Min II weapon) and making it single-shard instead of dual-shard. Any drawbacks to this?

Minos is pants. Dump it.

Get the bracers from the Harbinger chain.

Make helmet :cool:

You will never ever regret making a min II item with 45HP, heavy fort, +5 prot and 2X stoneskin.

I prefer to make it on cloaks tho.

[Sarisa]

I prefer to make it on cloaks tho.

If you ever plan on running a lot of epics, it's hard to justify making a Greensteel cloak anymore. The Mabar event cloak and the Chrono Epic Envenomed Cloak, and to a lesser extent the Epic Cloak of the Silver Concord are hard to pass up.

[MartinusWyllt]

Be prepared for your double-imbued tier 3 effect to take in the neighborhood of 30 shrouds to be able to complete. This is why I like the recommendation to start with an accessory as the tier 1 & 2 effects are immediately useful.

In getting your 5 large devil scales you'll accumulate enough smalls and mediums for further item crafting.

I like the goggles slot. There are apparently item slots you may want to use for down the line raid-acquired gear, but for me I know it will take months if not a year or so to actually get those end-game items. Meanwhile cleaned GS stuff will work just fine and will be useful early in the next life.

[Doomcrew]

On this same topic, I've been pondering what GS HP item to craft for my Ranger, and had considered a helmet, but didn't want to lose the 20HP from Toughness on his Minos. I'm leaning heavily towards bracers (already have a Min II weapon) and making it single-shard instead of dual-shard. Any drawbacks to this?

You've probably got a little time before you can make your GS hp item, take the
time to research your "dream" gear at end game.

Try to foresee what gear you'll be chasing for and use that to decide on a slot for
your GS hp item. It isn't always going to be the same for everyone. Take into account
if you are P2P and what packs you have looking forward to Epic Gear set ups.

Cheers, check your GS recipes twice before the crunch and have fun.

[Kinerd]

Just to clear this up;

The Holy Silver of Outsider Bane weapons are used to break the good + silver damage resistance that pit fiends have. These are the final bosses of several common raids, including the Shroud itself.

Previously the MinII was the best for this particular task, so characters running Shroud lots were encouraged to make one early. The LitII does more overall damage than the MinII, but doesn't break DR.

Now though the HSOB weapons can outdamage then MinII against the pit fiends on Hard and Elite (when the immunities to their secondary effects and DR breaking matters) so you can go straight to a LitII for use against everything else. The HSOB weapons aren't any use against anything that isn't an outsider (or, for the greaters, a lawful/chaotic outsider) so greensteel is still better in every other situation.Strictly speaking, a Holy Silver of Greater Bane weapon always beat a Min II, but with random generation it was prohibitively unlikely to acquire, especially so in a worthwhile weapon base. The advent of Cannith Crafting transforms the roulette into a grind instead.

To the original topic, a Raise Dead clicky is an enormously useful item in the 0.1% of situations where it comes in handy. Your job is to DPS, of course, but your dual shard "real" weapon is going to take a loooot of large ingredients to make anyway, you could decide to get something useful (that requires no larges) straight away. You could also eventually turn it into a Triple Positive, the best undead weapon in the game for non-monks.

[Deanarth]

Strictly speaking, a Holy Silver of Greater Bane weapon always beat a Min II, but with random generation it was prohibitively unlikely to acquire, especially so in a worthwhile weapon base. The advent of Cannith Crafting transforms the roulette into a grind instead.

To the original topic, a Raise Dead clicky is an enormously useful item in the 0.1% of situations where it comes in handy. Your job is to DPS, of course, but your dual shard "real" weapon is going to take a loooot of large ingredients to make anyway, you could decide to get something useful (that requires no larges) straight away. You could also eventually turn it into a Triple Positive, the best undead weapon in the game for non-monks.

Yea, Cannith Crafting is a definite grind. I'm sitting on one divine level from making a +4 Holy Silver Scimitar of Evil Outsider Bane, for the Evil Outsider Bane shard (the +4, Holy, and Silver Scimitar up to +8 potential are already crafted and waiting the last piece).

How long would it take to get a Raise Dead clickie? Is that just some small items from The Shroud to make?

[PNellesen]

How long would it take to get a Raise Dead clickie? Is that just some small items from The Shroud to make?

You'd probably be better off farming the Subterrane for Planar Shards and turning them in for Raise Dead clickies instead: http://ddowiki.com/page/Planar_Shard That is, of course, after farming to get your Large Ingredients bag ;)

[Matuse]

You'd probably be better off farming the Subterrane for Planar Shards and turning them in for Raise Dead clickies instead: http://ddowiki.com/page/Planar_Shard That is, of course, after farming to get your Large Ingredients bag

The raise dead click from the shroud can make an effective permanent weapon, and is 1/day of raise dead, again...permanent. It only uses small and medium ingredients (although with the update 9 changes to Greater Disruption, go all the way to Tier3 and it becomes an uber undead beater).

Planar shards should really only be used for large bags. Anything else is wasteful.

[Kmnh]

First one? Make a litII Khopesh. You can get the feat at one of your next levels. Even the unfinished weapon, +5/holy/shocking burst, will be miles ahead of your scimitars. I mean it. The difference is huge.

[pal_sch]

How long would it take to get a Raise Dead clickie? Is that just some small items from The Shroud to make?I'd say focus on building the LitII and it will just happen.

Download this program (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=137347) and keep track of all your ingredients in it. You can then quickly compare various recipes to your current stash. The program also keeps track of your raid timers and various other useful bits and pieces.

I've been grinding for larges for my first LitII and ended up building up a considerable stash of smalls and mediums. I decided to check how far I was from making various second weapons and it turns out I had enough to make a Raise Dead weapon/item already. Just need to run some more vale quests for blank ingredients before my next Shroud...
(although with the update 9 changes to Greater Disruption, go all the way to Tier3 and it becomes an uber undead beater).Yeah, this one still beats the best craftable undead beater (+5 Holy Burst [Silver Blunt] of Undead Bane) against the majority of targets due to disruption. Although if Greater Undead Bane comes out that might change...

[Kinerd]

Yeah, this one still beats the best craftable undead beater (+5 Holy Burst [Silver Blunt] of Undead Bane) against the majority of targets due to disruption. Although if Greater Undead Bane comes out that might change...Triple positive has Holy, Good Burst, and Greater Disruption for 9d6 on-hit. Holy (Burst) of Greater Undead Bane is 4 + 5d6. 4d6 is worth more than 4.

On-threat effects aren't important because most people aren't walking around with Improved Critical: Blunt, even if they were blunt weapons have inferior critical profiles, and it would be an edge for the weapon with Burst and Blast anyway.

And this didn't even count the vorpal factor.