Feedback: Fighter 101 (Work in Progress)

[FordyTwo]

Greetings! We've got another Work-in-Progress 101 guide to share, and this time it's the TWF 101 template for our Fighter 101 guide.

Some important notes:



We've got the same "Important Abilities," "Secondary Abilities," etc sections as Sorcerer 101, but for this feedback session we want to hone the provided template.
This is a 28 point newbie build.
Currently, the suggested Ability Point Buy includes a 6 CHA. Do you feel like that's not a good idea? Let us know, and please feel free to include suggestions.
The Enhancement section isn't a full load-out. Our goal here is to give some useful suggestions that will lead a newbie into useful enhancement lines later on -- without having to tell them, and overload their brain-matter.

Edit:

Overhauled the Feats section and added the Feats Explanation section after TheDjinnFor made that great post.

Thanks goes to Cam_Neely, bobbryan2, coolpenguin410, Asketes, LeLoric, TheDjinnFor, and Ralmeth! :)
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Template: Two Weapon Dwarf Fighter

This template can be used as a guide to building a stout-and-strong dual-wielding dwarf fighter. Feel free to follow it however much or little you like; everyone has their own DDO play style!

Ability Point Buy

• Strength --------16
• Dexterity -------16
• Constitution ---16
• Intelligence ----10
• Wisdom --------8
• Charisma -------6

• Ability Point Buy: At level 4, put 1 Ability Point into DEX. Then, at every fourth level beyond that, put all Ability Points into Strength (STR).

Skills

This fighter build won't have a massive pile of skill points to work with because of the Intelligence (INT) score. Don't worry; this two-weapon fighter (TWF) build is more about feats.

At character creation, invest a few skill points into Balance, Jump, and at least one rank of Tumble. Concentrate on maintaining a high Balance skill, but only train 10 ranks of Jump – spells can temporarily raise this skill in party situations, where it really matters.

Feats

Tip! Dwarfs have an innate bonus when using *gasp* dwarf axes. Because these are slashing weapons, this feat list focuses on improving capability with slashing. Prioritize dwarf axes (if you want) for a leg-up on your opponents.

• (1) Toughness
• (1) Two Weapon Fighting
• (2) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
• (3) Shield Mastery
• (4) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
Remember: At level 4, put an ability point into DEX to meet the requirements for Improved Two Weapon Fighting at level 6.
• (6) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
• (6) Stunning Blow
• (8) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
• (9) Power Attack
• (10) Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
• (12) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
• (12) Toughness
• (14) Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
• (15) Toughness
• (16) Superior Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
• (18) Quick Draw
• (18) Toughness
• (20) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting

Feat Explanation

Below are good utility feats. Toughness – largely considered an essential feat for any class -- boosts your Hit Points (HP) and unlocks additional HP-boosting enhancements. Quick Draw allows faster swapping of weapons and armor, but it also reduces the delay between special boost abilities (see Enhancements, below). Shield Mastery can be a useful feat to turtle up with when the going gets rough, especially at lower levels.

• Toughness (Level 1 & 14)
• Shield Mastery (Level 18)
• Quick Draw (Level 18)

These feats enhance fighting ability when holding a weapon in each hand; you'll be more accurate and swing more often during combat.

• Two Weapon Fighting (Level 1)
• Improved Two Weapon Fighting (Level 6)
• Greater Two Weapon Fighting (Level 12)

These feats help you deal more damage! Power Attack trades accuracy for damage (don't worry, you'll hit plenty with the above feats added) and Improved Critical doubles the chance of getting a critical hit.

• Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons (Level 8)
• Power Attack (Level 9)

A fighter is a master of weapons, and these feats improve both your accuracy and damage potential with slashing weapons, such as short swords and axes. Moreover, these feats enable the Kensei Prestige Enhancement class (see Enhancements, below), a powerful class-boost for the two weapon fighter.

• Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons (Level 2)
• Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons (Level 4)
• Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons (Level 10)
• Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons (Level 12)
• Superior Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons (Level 16)

Stunning Blow, Sunder and Trip are used during combat and have specific uses. A master fighter uses all the tools at their disposal. Note that some of the tougher boss creatures in DDO resist these active abilities, no matter how good a character is at using them.

• Stunning Blow (Level 6)
• Sunder (Fighter class feat)
• Trip (Fighter class Feat)

Enhancements

Because enhancements can be changed in-game for a small fee, feel free to experiment with your choices.

For example, this dwarf two-weapon fighter has a -1 to Will Saves because of his 8 Wisdom – so I always grab the Dwarf: Spell Defense enhancement to counter-act this weakness. Additionally, grabbing any "Toughness" enhancements is highly recommended.

Sample two-weapon dwarf fighter enhancements:

• Dwarf: Spell Defense
• Fighter Strategy (Stunning Blow) I
• Fighter Toughness
• Fighter Haste Boost I
• Fighter Strength I
• Fighter Critical Accuracy
• Dwarven Constitution
• Racial Toughness I

Remember, enhancements aren't permanent choices, so experiment and find out what works best for you!

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[ZeroTakenaka]

Isn't resilience trade half damage for like +5 to saves? I wouldn't take it.

[Cyr]

I think these 101 guides would be dramatically improved if explanations were put in to expand upon thoughts in a more advanced manner. Just because we are dealing with new players here we don't have to assume that they can not understand something that might be important later...in this case dex score of 16 improved to 17 assumes no +1 tome will be available. This would be a perfect place to explain how tomes apply to feat pre-reqs.

As for the feats get rid of...
slicing blow
improved sunder
resilence as this is a really poor feat choice

And the 6 charisma is tied to a non-intim build so good choice.

[Cam_Neely]

solid. Might want to put in a comment about dwarven axes (and axes in general) being useful for a dwarf.

Is the plan to updated the ingame pre programed paths soon? They are very ****ty and a bad experience for most new players.
*EDIT* see here to discuss this more http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=322846

[bobbryan2]

Cleave on a TWF build? Nah.
Resiliance? Nah.
Slicing Blow is a stretch.

Three more tougnesses would be exceedingly more useful for this build. Not that there are not better choices... just putting it in perspective.

But I'm just iffy in general about making a TWF for newbies. Already you're left with the choice of depending on a tome or wasting strength points on dex. This build would be much better off with keeping only a 15 dex and using a +2 tome... but then it wouldn't be newbie friendly anymore.

I'd just as soon put a newbie guide as a THF fighter.

6 charisma is fine. You can make fine builds with more... but it's not necessary.

You completely ignore intimidate. Especially on a newbie build this may be a mistake. They're not going to have greensteel and other great DPS gear to always be able to hold aggro when they need to. A moderate intimidate score might alleviate some of those issues. But then you run into the problem of skill points... which is mainly a problem because of the TWF aspect of the build.

[bobbryan2]

I think these 101 guides would be dramatically improved if explanations were put in to expand upon thoughts in a more advanced manner. Just because we are dealing with new players here we don't have to assume that they can not understand something that might be important later...in this case dex score of 16 improved to 17 assumes no +1 tome will be available. This would be a perfect place to explain how tomes apply to feat pre-reqs.

As for the feats get rid of...
slicing blow
improved sunder
resilence as this is a really poor feat choice

And the 6 charisma is tied to a non-intim build so good choice.

I would actually leave the improved sunder in on some newbie builds. The DC is pretty workable, especially with dwarven tactics (which this build should take), and lowering AC on tougher enemies will be more helpful to players that may not have immediate access to destruction/improved destruction weaponry.

Not to mention.. if he ever pulls some marilith chain, the DC just gets fun.

[Junts]

Cleave on a TWF build? Nah.
Resiliance? Nah.
Slicing Blow is a stretch.

Three more tougnesses would be exceedingly more useful for this build. Not that there are not better choices... just putting it in perspective.

But I'm just iffy in general about making a TWF for newbies. Already you're left with the choice of depending on a tome or wasting strength points on dex. This build would be much better off with keeping only a 15 dex and using a +2 tome... but then it wouldn't be newbie friendly anymore.

I'd just as soon put a newbie guide as a THF fighter.

6 charisma is fine. You can make fine builds with more... but it's not necessary.

You completely ignore intimidate. Especially on a newbie build this may be a mistake. They're not going to have greensteel and other great DPS gear to always be able to hold aggro when they need to. A moderate intimidate score might alleviate some of those issues. But then you run into the problem of skill points... which is mainly a problem because of the TWF aspect of the build.

I'd drop these for shield mastery and possibly khopesh - the damage reduction from a shield could be pretty useful to a new player at least stiuationally, for surviving and running away, and if they were a human build instead they could have a 2nd skill point for intimidate to have that option too.

[FordyTwo]

I'll add in a mention of dwarf axes, as that's a very good suggestion!

When we first began discussing Fighter 101, the topic of what fighter type to make into a template was discussed at length. We didn't want to do Intimitank or AC because of the investment required on loot drops, etc. So, it came down to THF and TWF -- but a THF felt more like a Barbarian 101 template (barbarian SMASH!).

No matter what type of fighter we go with (AC, THF, TWF, etc) there's going to be a deficiency somewhere. Newbie players don't start with 32pt builds, tomes, or pretty much any other leg-up that intermediate or veteran players have -- and that's okay. We just want them to have a straight-forward idea of how (and where) to begin their DDO experience.

So, TWF was our choice because A) dual-wielding is fun, B) low-to-no Intimidate means less tactics juggling early-on and C) we didn't want to steal barbarian mojo later on in Barbarian 101.

As for the feat discussions -- I'm all for changing up the template's feats, but we need suggestions on what to replace them with. We've got two instances of Toughness on that list, and admittedly we could add more. Thoughts?

Keep the suggestions coming! I can't get to all of them at once, but I promise to look over each post. :)

[red_cardinal]

The only way you can help newbies to feel comfortable playing this game is to finally revise and FIX all CLASS PATHS! And that does mean that for every class all PrEs are fully implemented so that the chosen path actually matches the description. These 101 documents aren't a good start IMHO - they are more an intro to multiclassing and/or custom character creation.

[coolpenguin410]

TWF and intim on the same build isn't very newbie friendly. It takes a good familiarity with the game to know when to use that. If the guide was an AC build it'd be another story, but I suspect this guide aims at a pure DPS/utility build rather than intim.

I agree to leave off Cleave, Resilence and Slicing Blow. Even with it's recent upgrade of doing Con damge, Slicing Blow doesn't offer much. The other two don't do well on many builds at all.

Might I suggest moving around some feats to free up more "level" feats to take things like the save bonus feats? An additional toughness is not a bad choice.

Consider Combat Expertise if only for Improved Trip. Likely this will be a Kensai build that benefits from having a lot of tactical feats. Plus it gives the player something to do if they get bored just holding down their attack button.

[Cam_Neely]

No matter what type of fighter we go with (AC, THF, TWF, etc) there's going to be a deficiency somewhere. Newbie players don't start with 32pt builds, tomes, or pretty much any other leg-up that intermediate or veteran players have -- and that's okay. We just want them to have a straight-forward idea of how (and where) to begin their DDO experience.

I agree with this. No need to put in details about tomes ect, as this is just a very basic vanilla post. There are many other sources that explain tomes, and other details should the new player want to learn them. Keep this as basic as possible imo as a good one first shot for people. No need to overly complicate it.

GO BRUINS!

[Asketes]

Feat Suggestions:

Cleave NEVER belongs on a TWF unless they are barb b/c it's a prerequisite for frenzied berzerker.
Reason: Cleave ONLY affects the main hand, so it has no synergy with twf.

Resiliance not advisable, take an extra toughness feat.
Reason: If i recall correctly, this cannot be active WITH power attack.

Improved sunder Not advisable, take an extra toughness feat.
Reason: People have an easy enough time hitting things already.

Slicing Blow Not advisable, take an extra toughness feat.
Reason: The cooldown for this, as well as the mediocre at best damage isn't worth the feat slot.

Oversized Two Weapon fighting Not advisable, take an extra toughness feat.
Reason: "Neat" at low levels, but definitely NOT needed past level 12. You are a fighter, your high strength and feats allow you to have a solid ATK bonus already..

[FordyTwo]

The only way you can help newbies to feel comfortable playing this game is to finally revise and FIX all CLASS PATHS! And that does mean that for every class all PrEs are fully implemented so that the chosen path actually matches the description. These 101 documents aren't a good start IMHO - they are more an intro to multiclassing and/or custom character creation.

This particular thread is for the web content feedback on our upcoming Fighter 101 guide. For feedback and suggestions concerning in-game systems, please see Gameplay & Systems feedback (http://forums.ddo.com/forumdisplay.php?f=180).

[Junts]

I'll add in a mention of dwarf axes, as that's a very good suggestion!

When we first began discussing Fighter 101, the topic of what fighter type to make into a template was discussed at length. We didn't want to do Intimitank or AC because of the investment required on loot drops, etc. So, it came down to THF and TWF -- but a THF felt more like a Barbarian 101 template (barbarian SMASH!).

No matter what type of fighter we go with (AC, THF, TWF, etc) there's going to be a deficiency somewhere. Newbie players don't start with 32pt builds, tomes, or pretty much any other leg-up that intermediate or veteran players have -- and that's okay. We just want them to have a straight-forward idea of how (and where) to begin their DDO experience.

So, TWF was our choice because A) dual-wielding is fun, B) low-to-no Intimidate means less tactics juggling early-on and C) we didn't want to steal barbarian mojo later on in Barbarian 101.

As for the feat discussions -- I'm all for changing up the template's feats, but we need suggestions on what to replace them with. We've got two instances of Toughness on that list, and admittedly we could add more. Thoughts?

Keep the suggestions coming! I can't get to all of them at once, but I promise to look over each post. :)

I'd fit in shield mastery at lower levels.

two-weapon fighting really sucks before improved twf and its still sometimes shaky prior to greater twf. For a new player with a good dex (like this for twf), its still possible to get a moderately useful armor class in the lv 3-9 range. There are probably situations where a new player, whos weapons wont be so good and may have hit issues etc, will want to use a shield for better defense. the shield mastery feat could support that, and still be situationally useful at higher levels when the fighter needs to survive with a mob on him while the party's dealing with some other problem (psuedo-tanking).

Quick Draw is a very popular feat with Kensei players because it cuts down on the animation delay of both haste boost and power surge. I would include this feat at some point, as most players who use it regard it as an improvement, albeit a small one. Its impact on weapon swaps etc is not noticable, buthow quickly you can resume attacking after activating a boost is.

I would put shield mastery at like level 3 and move stunning blow up a little bit - I dont think the feat is very strong prior to lv 7-9 because most monsters will die in 1-2-3 hits (even non-crit hits) and stunning them doesn't noticably speed up your time spent killing them. Also, prior to those levels finding a weapon of stunning x is very difficult, because the lowest level items tend to not have any useful effects at all (similar to how you often have to be looting ml 6 items before +1 flaming ml 2 will spawn in your chest at all). These players wont have ship buffs or good twink str gear, so without access to a weapon of stunning their stunning blow is gonna be unexceptional at best. Putting it off until they've had some time to learn the economy is probably a good idea.

[Asketes]

As for the feat discussions -- I'm all for changing up the template's feats, but we need suggestions on what to replace them with. We've got two instances of Toughness on that list, and admittedly we could add more. Thoughts?

Keep the suggestions coming! I can't get to all of them at once, but I promise to look over each post. :)


A fighter not going for Improved Trip will EASILY have 4 or 5 toughness feats.


This is expected and heavily bolsters the fighter's hit points so they can survive brutal enemy attacks.

[TheDjinnFor]

• Ability Point Buy: At level 4, put 1 Ability Point into DEX. Then, at every fourth level beyond that, put all Ability Points into Strength (STR).

Mentioning that a +1 dexterity Tome can also work toward qualifying for TWF is a good idea, even if most newbies can't hit it off the boat.


Feats

Sunder/Improved Sunder is a notoriously hard to hit feat where it counts (epic, high AC purple names). Resilience is just pointless thanks to the gigantic DPS loss; might as well take another toughness. Oversized Two Weapon Fighting could probably be dropped, fighters just don't have to-hit issues.

Quick Draw is missing; might as well take that since fighters are a haste-boosty/weapon-switchy class. Shield Mastery is a nice utility feat when you have 18 feats; 20% damage reduction when blocking with a Tower Shield, why not? You might not be a pure tank but I still throw on a Shield every once in a while; e.g. if the Horoth tank goes down and he starts chasing after me, I'll block in a corner instead of fruitlessly attempting to kite him. Finally, sap is not a bad feat; good for epics at least since it's a no-save, long duration stun. Just don't hit the thing you've stunned and you're set.

I'd also suggest grouping the feats together with a short explanation for why to take them.

These feats enhance your ability to fight with a weapon in each hand, making you more accurate and increasing the number of hits you get.
Two Weapon Fighting (Level 1)
Improved Two Weapon Fighting (Level 6)
Greater Two Weapon Fighting (Level 12)

These feats help you deal damage! Power attack trades accuracy for damage, and Improved Critical doubles your chances for getting a critical hit.
Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons (Level 8)
Power Attack (Level 9)

A fighter is a master of weapons, and these feats improve both your accuracy and damage potential. They also help you qualify for the Kensei Prestige Enhancement Class (see Enhancements, below), which further hones your skills.
Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons (Level 2)
Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons (Level 4)
Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons (Level 10)
Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons (Level 12)
Superior Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons (Level 18)

These active feats must be used during combat. They all have a niche use, and a master fighter is one that uses all of the tools at his or her disposal. If you don't feel up to the task of managing and using all of these special abilities, or you don't like the sound of some of their effects, you can replace any of them except stunning blow with Toughness feats for added durability. Stunning blow is just too good to pass up!
Stunning Blow
Slicing Blow
Sap
Cleave

Finally, these feats are good utility feats. Toughness boosts your HP and unlocks additional HP-boosting enhancements, while quickdraw helps you switch weapons and armor faster as well as decrease the delay between your special boost abilities. Shield Mastery can be a useful feat to turtle up with when the going gets rough.
Toughness (Level 1)
Shield Mastery
Quick Draw


Enhancements

You might as well mention the Kensai Prestige Enhancement. Now, they can be changed around pretty easy but in my opinion if you're going to mention the number ranks (I or II or III) you should recommend the minimum. For haste boost, it's all four. If you're not going to recommend ranks, then that's fine; simply listing good enhancements is okay, as well as a short description of why.

Something like...

These enhancements give you a temporary boost to your combat prowess. Haste Boost is an invaluable ability that provides a huge increase to your attack speed. Attack Boost III is required for the Kensei Prestige Enhancement.
• Fighter Haste Boost IV
• Fighter Attack Boost III

As an axe-wielding dwarf, these enhancements boost your accuracy and damage. Take at least one rank, or more if you want.
• Dwarven Axe Attack I
• Dwarven Axe Damage I

The Kensei fighter hones his or her skills in a specific weapon type, and in your case that's Dwarven Waraxes. Critical Accuracy III is required to qualify for this prestige enhancement.
• Fighter Critical Accuracy III
• Fighter Kensei III
• Kensei Dwarven Axe Mastery III
• Fighter Dwarven Axe Specialization II

These enhancements provide a small boost to your ability scores and health. They're the recommended minimums; you can get even more if you want.
• Fighter Strength II
• Dwarven Constitution I
• Fighter Toughness II
• Racial Toughness II

To help boost your active feats, you can take these enhancements to make it harder to resist your Stunning Blow, Trip and Sunder attacks.
• Fighter Strategy (Stunning Blow) I
• Fighter Strategy (Trip) I
• Dwarven Tactics I

Finally, the Fighter capstone is a great enhancement that gives you a 10% chance to strike a second time with your weapon.
• Fighter Weapon Alacrity

[stainer]

snip

That is a pretty awesome write up, TheDjinnFor.

IMHO 1 toughness is enough. My TWF Dwarf Ftr Dreckler only has one toughness and does fine.

Quick Draw is an awesome feat to have.

@FordyTwo

You might offer options for some of "extra" feats, like "toughness OR stunning blow" and give examples or info on why someone would pick one way or another.

[bobbryan2]

Consider Combat Expertise if only for Improved Trip. Likely this will be a Kensai build that benefits from having a lot of tactical feats. Plus it gives the player something to do if they get bored just holding down their attack button.

I thought about that, and even liked the suggestion... but again, that works better with a THF build. With less of a dex investment, you can pick up more tactic feats, more intim, some charisma, and actually have some good useful tactics. It's very hard to fit 11 (or 13 for a newb) INT on a TWF fighter.

So... I can understand the exclusion of improved trip on this build.

[danotmano1998]

I'll add in a mention of dwarf axes, as that's a very good suggestion!

When we first began discussing Fighter 101, the topic of what fighter type to make into a template was discussed at length. We didn't want to do Intimitank or AC because of the investment required on loot drops, etc. So, it came down to THF and TWF -- but a THF felt more like a Barbarian 101 template (barbarian SMASH!).

No matter what type of fighter we go with (AC, THF, TWF, etc) there's going to be a deficiency somewhere. Newbie players don't start with 32pt builds, tomes, or pretty much any other leg-up that intermediate or veteran players have -- and that's okay. We just want them to have a straight-forward idea of how (and where) to begin their DDO experience.

So, TWF was our choice because A) dual-wielding is fun, B) low-to-no Intimidate means less tactics juggling early-on and C) we didn't want to steal barbarian mojo later on in Barbarian 101.

As for the feat discussions -- I'm all for changing up the template's feats, but we need suggestions on what to replace them with. We've got two instances of Toughness on that list, and admittedly we could add more. Thoughts?

Keep the suggestions coming! I can't get to all of them at once, but I promise to look over each post. :)



What you have is a very good place for new people to start, IMO. Discussing tomes and other prestige options probably isn't going to fit into what you are trying to do here.

Only thing I could recommend, (and this is for all the 101 guides) is to put in a link near the bottom with the associated prestige choices for easy reference.

[bobbryan2]

I second quick draw.

Or is it third?

Much better than resiliance.

[FordyTwo]

Would you guys say Quick Draw over Bullheaded? It's only a minor amount of extra Will Save boost, so I can see the argument.

[eonfreon]

Looks pretty good.

I just have to question the choice of Bow Strength. Especially at level 14. At that level even adding your Str score won't amount to a lot of damage before it;s time to switch to melee weapon as the Mob closes.

And Bows are not really great at drawing individual Mobs into a fight anyway. It takes a bit of skill to do so, without alerting every other Mob around and defeating the purpose anyway. Even if you do have that skill or you just want to pull the Mobs in a specific direction, you can do that with a bow anyway. The Bow Strength Feat won't add enough damage at a bow's low rate of fire at such a high level as 14 to make much difference.

Now if you guys fix Bow ROF, then that would be a good start. Otherwise a Dwarf is really better off just using a Returning Throwing Axe when he wants to "plink" someone from a distance.


Would you guys say Quick Draw over Bullheaded? It's only a minor amount of extra Will Save boost, so I can see the argument.

Yes, definently Quickdraw over Bullheaded.

[FrozenNova]

Given that it's already a dwarf, with sizable hp boosts, I don't think additional toughness is at all a priority. Moreover, it's just a case of determining what is quite determinedly useless in terms of what it brings to the build. (Looking at you, bow strength).
I'd be tempted to throw quickdraw and sap in there somewhere - both are helpful and add respectively more convenience and utility without much sacrifice.

There's nothing wrong with having intimidate. It is convenient when dealing with piles of trash, or an enemy that won't give up its obsession with the cowardly wizard. There's little chance this build will reach intim dc's suitable for tanking, so I don't think spending feats on it would be worthwhile.

[rest]

Quickdraw > bullhead any day of the week!

[Cyr]

Would you guys say Quick Draw over Bullheaded? It's only a minor amount of extra Will Save boost, so I can see the argument.

Oh yeah.

Bullheaded is not worthwhile on the build you are writting up where most will save effects are basically nullified by prot from evil and freedom of movement.

Quickdraw is a very good feat for a fighter and we are talking a twf here so khopesh should certainly make an appearance as a strong suggestion at least. Toughness mutliple times on a pure fighter is hardly unheard of either.

Oh and bow strength is def. not on my list of preferred feats for this build. Throwers should suffice for the few times you want to use ranged with a melee centric build and if anything you would take the feat for those (str to hit). Bow's main asset was dr bypass against DQ, but crafting let's people make appropriate throwers for that now...nor is that really going to be a new player concern as that is a little bit of twink for level 20 epic runs before she drops back to the platform (all 10-45 seconds of it).

[Asketes]

Would you guys say Quick Draw over Bullheaded? It's only a minor amount of extra Will Save boost, so I can see the argument.

yes

[Junts]

Would you guys say Quick Draw over Bullheaded? It's only a minor amount of extra Will Save boost, so I can see the argument.

I generally dislike save-boost feats in general (besides divine grace), and I definitely think QD is better than bullheaded despite not being a big quickdraw fan.

Most people building 'dps' fighters consider quickdraw an essential feat: it basically saves you 2-3 attack hooks per time you use a boost while actually swinging. Usually, activating a boost costs you 4-5 attacks. With quickdraw, the number is about half that.

[bobbryan2]

Would you guys say Quick Draw over Bullheaded? It's only a minor amount of extra Will Save boost, so I can see the argument.

Bullheaded on a non-intim build?

Why would you not simply do iron will?

Makes no sense.

[LeLoric]

Would you guys say Quick Draw over Bullheaded? It's only a minor amount of extra Will Save boost, so I can see the argument.

For a very new player guide I would actually consider Iron will especially in early game. Fighter will saves are notoriously bad and most new players don't play with people who know where to cast fom or protection from evil. Getting held in early game can often mean death. New players cant afford heroism pots and don't have girds to boost saves either.

Note: I would never recommend this for an experienced end game build but for the intent of this guide I would probably rate it over quick draw because of the lack of defensive abilities and a newer player isn't going to be as concerned about getting faster action boosts off as they are about why do I get held/commanded then killed so much.

[TheDjinnFor]

Note: I would never recommend this for an experienced end game build but for the intent of this guide I would probably rate it over quick draw because of the lack of defensive abilities and a newer player isn't going to be as concerned about getting faster action boosts off as they are about why do I get held/commanded then killed so much.

Well said.

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

Great effort FordyTwo!

Bow Strength is impossible on a fighter without taking weapon focus ranged and point blank shot feats. A good bet along the same lines would be to take the improved crit ranged feat.

[FordyTwo]

I've updated the template. Thanks to everyone for all the great feedback! Newbie fighters the world over will benefit from our powers combined. (I'll form the head, Abashiiiii!)

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

Before people ask, I figure I'd post a THF build along the same lines that you've written this guide. Past level 14, the feats are really about flavor. Feats/enhancements are pretty much up for debate and personal taste.

This Kensei III build gives a good mix of high hit points, high damage and dwarven racial benefits. Its a good solid beginner build as is, that can be tweaked by long time players to suit their playstyle as well. (For example, many veterans go halforc to take advantage of all the strength/damage candy)


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.8.2
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 Lawful Good Dwarf Male
(20 Fighter)
Hit Points: 466
Spell Points: 0
BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
Fortitude: 18
Reflex: 9
Will: 6

Starting
Abilities Base Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1)
Strength 18
Dexterity 14
Constitution 18
Intelligence 8
Wisdom 8
Charisma 6

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

Level 1 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Feat: (Automatic) Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Dwarven Stability
Feat: (Automatic) Dwarven Stonecutting
Feat: (Automatic) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Dwarven Waraxe
Feat: (Automatic) Giant Evasion
Feat: (Automatic) Heavy Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability
Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency (ALL)
Feat: (Automatic) Medium Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Orc and Goblin Bonus
Feat: (Automatic) Poison Save Bonus
Feat: (Automatic) Shield Proficiency (General)
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak
Feat: (Automatic) Spell Save Bonus
Feat: (Automatic) Sunder
Feat: (Automatic) Tower Shield Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Trip
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I


Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I


Level 3 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I


Level 4 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost II
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Attack I
Enhancement: Dwarven Spell Defense I


Level 5 (Fighter)
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II


Level 6 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Stunning Blow
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei I


Level 7 (Fighter)
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Kensei Greataxe Mastery I
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Stunning Blow) I


Level 8 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage II


Level 9 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Trip) I
Enhancement: Fighter Greataxe Specialization I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II


Level 10 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Cleave
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Attack II


Level 11 (Fighter)
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution II


Level 12 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Handed Fighting
Feat: (Selected) Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Kensei Greataxe Mastery II
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei II


Level 13 (Fighter)
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost III
Enhancement: Dwarven Tactics I


Level 14 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Great Cleave
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy III


Level 15 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost III
Enhancement: Dwarven Spell Defense II


Level 16 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Superior Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II


Level 17 (Fighter)
Enhancement: Dwarven Spell Defense III


Level 18 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Quick Draw
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei III
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III


Level 19 (Fighter)
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness III


Level 20 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Weapon Alacrity
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Stunning Blow) II
Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense I

[game5551]

Reading through, improved trip would be nice, but without any tomes that means starting with a 13 int - yikes!

I was thinking that THF would be more new player friendly, then read this:


When we first began discussing Fighter 101, the topic of what fighter type to make into a template was discussed at length. We didn't want to do Intimitank or AC because of the investment required on loot drops, etc. So, it came down to THF and TWF -- but a THF felt more like a Barbarian 101 template (barbarian SMASH!). [...]
It makes so much sense now :)

I love the write up; I hope shield, quick draw, and sap/iron will get worked in. It does need some more explanatory write up though. I was going to type a bit per feat, but you TheDjinnFor combined it and very nicely, succinctly typed it up. +1 to you!

A bit on when to start using power attack, and to use a shield/axe combo at least until you get to the market place would be good, as well as a little on tactics. I'll type something up in a few hours when I have time if no one beats me to it...

[game5551]

• (15) Improved Trip


I dont think that works in this build...

[Ralmeth]

Looks mostly good though I have a few suggestions:

1) Toughness isn't a Fighter bonus feat so you can't take it at level 14.
2) Improved trip has a prerequisite of combat expertise, so you won't be able to take this feat.
3) Your guide states that shield mastery is helpful at lower levels, but then you take shield mastery and improved shield mastery at levels 18 and 20? I would think shield mastery at level 3 would be better in place of iron will. Iron will for only +2 to your will saves isn't that great. Improved shield mastery at only +5% damage reduction isn't great either, unless your spending a lot of time in S&B mode as a tank. On a TWF build I wouldn't bother with it.
4) For the extra feats, I would rearrange things and take more toughness as your level 15 and 18 feats. DDO is about DPS and Hit points, so more toughness will definately help a build that's about DPS and has no ability to self-heal.
5) Perhaps at level 20 take oversize TWF for a better to hit in epics.

Here's a revised list that I would recommend:
• (1) Toughness
• (1) Two Weapon Fighting
• (2) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
• (3) Shield Mastery
• (4) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
Remember: At level 4, put an ability point into DEX to meet the requirements for Improved Two Weapon Fighting at level 6.
• (6) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
• (6) Stunning Blow
• (8) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
• (9) Power Attack
• (10) Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
• (12) Greater Two Weapon Fighting (use the Fighter bonus feat for this)
• (12) Toughness
• (14) Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
• (15) Toughness
• (16) Superior Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
• (18) Quick Draw
• (18) Toughness
• (20) Oversize Two Weapon Fighting (for better to hit in epics)

Hope that helps

[Alektronic]

I'll add in a mention of dwarf axes, as that's a very good suggestion!

When we first began discussing Fighter 101, the topic of what fighter type to make into a template was discussed at length. We didn't want to do Intimitank or AC because of the investment required on loot drops, etc. So, it came down to THF and TWF -- but a THF felt more like a Barbarian 101 template (barbarian SMASH!).

...


I dunno if it's too late for this suggestion, but wouldn't ranger 101 be a better place to put a TWF? Especially with the aversion to ranged builds, I can't imagine what else you'd offer to NKOTB for a ranger 101 template.

On the more constructive side, have you considered making a dwarven strategist SB/THF offtank build for a template? It's quite more tactical than the THF barb, in both build and playstyle. I just threw this build together to illustrate:


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.9.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)
Dwarven Strategist
Level 20 Neutral Good Dwarf Male
(20 Fighter)
Hit Points: 326
Spell Points: 0
BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
Fortitude: 14
Reflex: 7
Will: 5
Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(28 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 16 21
Dexterity 12 12
Constitution 15 15
Intelligence 13 13
Wisdom 8 8
Charisma 10 10
Starting
Base Skills
Skills (Level 1)
Balance 3
Bluff 0
Concentration 2
Diplomacy 0
Disable Device n/a
Haggle 0
Heal -1
Hide 1
Intimidate 4
Jump 3
Listen -1
Move Silently 1
Open Lock n/a
Perform n/a
Repair 1
Search 1
Spot -1
Swim 3
Tumble 2
Use Magic Device 1

Level 1 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Handed Fighting

Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Shield Mastery

Level 3 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons

Level 4 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons

Level 5 (Fighter)

Level 6 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Handed Fighting
Feat: (Selected) Stunning Blow

Level 7 (Fighter)

Level 8 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons

Level 9 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack

Level 10 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons

Level 11 (Fighter)

Level 12 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Handed Fighting
Feat: (Selected) Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons

Level 13 (Fighter)

Level 14 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Combat Expertise

Level 15 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness

Level 16 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Trip

Level 17 (Fighter)

Level 18 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Superior Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Feat: (Selected) Toughness

Level 19 (Fighter)

Level 20 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Sap



EDIT: This build, I think, caters to the "fighter". It doesn't have the raw power of the barbarian. It builds AC in a way that should be viable to midlevels with little investment, and useful end-game with the right loot. It also offers the classic combat strategy feats that are fun and different than the hack-and-slash styles of THF (barb 101) and TWF (ranger 101 hopefully =p). Sure, the build above can be tweaked more, but just wanted to demonstrate that this kind of build should viable/class-specific/newbie-friendly.

EDIT2: Skill raises in balance, intim, and UMD.

[Scraap]

If you intend it to be a generalist all-around-er for introducing new players to multiple styles, I might suggest dropping iron will for shield bash at 3.

SB provides a 20% offhand while wearing a shield during those levels when that'll get you by AC wise. TWF provides a 40% offhand chance, granted, however, it's still at a -4 / -4 to-hit penalty, which in a d20 system translates to a -20% penalty to both on it's own, so that pretty much breaks even.

One addendum I will note though, is that if you've a light offhand weapon, like a dagger, that penalty goes down to -2/-2, or 10% loss per, and as you move up in levels, both stats and to-hit bonus items mitigates negatives like that considerably.

On the purely positive side, I'll note that that 6 cha was a good choice. Intim builds pretty much require being right at the front these days. Not something you want to force on someone just learning a quest.

(Oh, and not to be overly pedantic, but it's Dwarven. Dwarveeeen! *froths at the mouth* :p)

[Asketes]

NEW UPDATES:

Feats:

Improved trip: You have this in the feat list, but you don't have the prerequisite Combat Expertise or the 13 int for it.

Iron Will: Your basic fighter layout (the one you are creating, for new players) is not designed to have high saves. Focus on DPS and Hitpoints.

Shield Mastery: I doubt most will be using this to it's full advantage. Telling someone to use a feat then get rid of it later doesn't seem plausible to me.. It gives the wrong idea that shields are useful.

FEEDBACK:

Overall, the guide is improving. Nicely done FordyTwo

[pasterqb]

Here's a revised list that I would recommend:
• (1) Toughness
• (1) Two Weapon Fighting
• (2) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
• (3) Shield Mastery
• (4) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
Remember: At level 4, put an ability point into DEX to meet the requirements for Improved Two Weapon Fighting at level 6.
• (6) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
• (6) Stunning Blow
• (8) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
• (9) Power Attack
• (10) Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
• (12) Greater Two Weapon Fighting (use the Fighter bonus feat for this)
• (12) Toughness
• (14) Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
• (15) Toughness
• (16) Superior Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
• (18) Quick Draw
• (18) Toughness
• (20) Oversize Two Weapon Fighting (for better to hit in epics)

Hope that helps

This /signed

Although personally i would swap out Shield Mastery for another toughness but mainly because i prefer having permanent or mostly permanent benefit from feats instead of getting benefit 1% or 10% of the time.

[eonfreon]

Fordytwo,
I noticed you have Improved Trip at level 15. Now, I am actually a fan of this Feat, but unless something's changed don't you need Combat Expertise to qualify for it?

[shad0wguns]

my recommendation for a fighter build is this
start with max strength that you can get
15 DEX minimum because u can use a +2 tome to make it 17 so u can get your feats
rets of your points go to CON because HP matters
for feats take the feats that u need for the kensaii prestige as soon as u can if u dont hav any up that u need take a toughness all be warned at level 18 u get a class feat and u can not take toughness so the level 16 feat take toughness and level 18 class feat take superior weapon focus slashing.

please note if u dont go dwarf i recommend human or half elf because u can get 1 more STR with this also half elf u get the rouge feat for half elf giving u sneak attack damage wich helps if u dont hav aggro also i would recommend takeing a exotic weapon feat (i prefer khopesh but others might say dwarven axes) because u hav enough feats and u will do more damage using one of these weapons (make sure u take oversized TWF)
again this is my opinion and it works very well for me

[shad0wguns]

this is if u care
STR 42
DEX 22, because of madstone boots and i came across a +3 dex tome
CON 30
INT 8
WIS 8
CHA 8
i hav greater might of the abishai set on and +1 and +2 EXC STR
1 TR

[eonfreon]

for feats take the feats that u need for the kensaii prestige as soon as u can if u dont hav any up that u need take a toughness all be warned at level 18 u get a class feat and u can not take toughness so the level 16 feat take toughness and level 18 class feat take superior weapon focus slashing.


You actually have that backwards. At level 16 you get a class feat, which can't be toughness.

[kevroar-eu]

In the template it says that all of the slashing feats can be used on shortswords on axes.
perhaps change to longswords and axes to clarify the difference.

[sirgog]

I quite like this guide. It's not min-maxxed, but it will produce a character that is 100% viable at all levels.

I'd echo the suggestions to drop the shield feats, possibly in favor of more Toughness feats and/or Oversized Two Weapon Fighting.

OTWF is particularly important with mediocre gear, no past lives and minimal access to tomes - a fighter with no raid loot, a +2 Holy Silver dwarven axe in the main hand, a +3 Metalline of Pure Good one in the offhand is not going to hit Arraetrikos on a 2 with their first attack in a bardless group at level 17, and a freshly-20 Fighter with a +4 Holy Burst dwarven axe in each hand and only 1 or 2 pieces of raid loot is not going to hit epic Malicia on a 2 even if she's Destructed and in an Acid Fog. (In the latter case, they probably aren't even hitting on a 10 with their first attack unless they have a lot of buffs you can't rely on having in 6-person groups).


Gearwise, I'd advise the following:

1) Always carry a blunt weapon (or two), even if you aren't specced for them at all. Skeletons are very hard to damage without blunt weapons.
2) Don't be afraid to use a two-handed weapon, or one weapon and a shield, at lower level. Two-weapon fighting lets you attack very fast, but your attacks aren't very accurate.
3) If you find monsters hard to hit, drink a Heroism potion, or group with a bard. Heroism potions and bard hireling contracts are both available in House Kundarak.
4) Always wear the best +Strength item you can get your hands upon.
5) As a Fighter, you can wear heavy plate armor if you want. You don't have to - if you come across some awesome lighter armor (such as the Marilith Chain), you can wear that too. At low level, however, fullplate is fantastic.

[Nysrock]

Couple of things I noticed.

No mention was made of what alignment to take. While this is personal preference I would think Neutral Good would be the most newbie friendly. That way they can use Pure Good weapons and either Anarchic or Axiomatic.

Also, it should be mentioned that for the first couple of levels or so they would be better off using THF or going Axe & Shield. The reasoning behind this is when your just starting out your to-hit bonus really isn't that high. Adding a second weapon would make it that much worse at first. At the least they should keep a 2-hander ready in case they find they can't hit something.

And I didn't notice (though might be there) a mention of how they could use a light weapon in their off-hand to have a lesser penalty when they do go TWF.

[karl_k0ch]

I really like the idea of this thread, I also liked it for the sorcerer one.

It is really a thing where the players/forum users see the "powered by our fans" stuff. It's nice to see how such a thing comes together with the help of the community.

However, a new player who reads any of the 101s, will not see that the official guide he reads is actually a community-powered work. It would be pretty neat if the guide would have a tag like "This official guide was created with the help of the DDO Community (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=317886)", where the link goes to the corresponding discussion thread (such as this one).

I'm not pressing on proper citations of everyone who voiced his opinion to a state of the certain 101, but it would be nice if the Community's dedication to help new players would be reflected in the final document.



3) If you find monsters hard to hit, drink a Heroism potion, or group with a bard. Heroism potions and bard hireling contracts are both available in House Kundarak.

Does house K have non-guild vendors which are selling these items? If not, the Marketplace and/or House J might be a better idea to turn to.

[Dendrix]

I would suggest the following feat layout

(1) Toughness
F(1) Shield Mastery
F(2) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
(3) Iron Will
F(4) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
Remember: At level 4, put an ability point into DEX to meet the requirements for Improved Two Weapon Fighting at level 6.
(6) Two Weapon Fighting
F(6) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
F(8) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
(9) Power Attack
F(10) Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
(12) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
F(12) Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
F(14) Stunning Blow
(15) Toughness
F(16) Superior Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
F(18) Quick Draw
(18) Toughness
F(20) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting

Start with using sword+shield wearing the best armour that you can use, ideally adamantine for the Damage Reduction. The Shield Mastery feat gives you additional damage reduction when using a shield.

At 6th level swap to using two weapons. At this level you can afford the minus' to your to hit from using two weapons, before this point you will miss too much, especially if you are using a non light weapon in the off hand (-4 to hit with both weapons).

At 9th level when you gain Power Attack you should have this on most of the time, it's a massive increase to your effective damage.

Using Power Attack give you -5 to hit, using 2 non-light weapons gives you -4 to hit. If you find you are missing a lot (more than 40% then you should either switching power attack off or swapping to sword and shield.

At 6th, 12th and 18th level you should be gaioning the Kensai prestige class at level 1, 2 and 3 respectivly from spending your enhancements. Respend your enhancements using the show unavailable checkbox to enable you to be able to see and select the required pre-requisits.

[The_Phenx]

[QUOTE]-------------------------------------------------------

Template: Two Weapon Dwarf Fighter

This template can be used as a guide to building a stout-and-strong dual-wielding dwarf fighter. Feel free to follow it however much or little you like; everyone has their own DDO play style!

Ability Point Buy

• Strength --------16
• Dexterity -------16
• Constitution ---16
• Intelligence ----10
• Wisdom --------8
• Charisma -------6

• Ability Point Buy: At level 4, put 1 Ability Point into DEX. Then, at every fourth level beyond that, put all Ability Points into Strength (STR).

I would put in this spot how tomes count toward feat prerequisites. And that they should TRY to acquire a +1 dex tome. Which is a fairly easy thing to do, and then they can put that level up stat point into strength.



• (3) Iron Will

Should never be taken as a feat. Not getting held/charmed is nice, but this is a pretty pointless feat and has no real value. I suggest putting oversize two weapon fighting in its place. Hitting as a fighter is top priority. And in low levels and end game +2 extra can make a LOT of difference.


Enhancements

Because enhancements can be changed in-game for a small fee, feel free to experiment with your choices.

For example, this dwarf two-weapon fighter has a -1 to Will Saves because of his 8 Wisdom – so I always grab the Dwarf: Spell Defense enhancement to counter-act this weakness. Additionally, grabbing any "Toughness" enhancements is highly recommended.

You should also mention that the dwarf should ALWAYS take dwarven ax attack and damage enhancements. Not to do so is silly :).

Thats all I got... good job on this one guys.

[stainer]

I am not sure if you did this with the Sorc 101 build, but you might put a link to this thread once you get the Fighter 101 up on the Compendium. That way new players can look at the discussion that has went on to get to the end result. It will be informative to see how others would make adjustments.

[KillEveryone]

Ability Point Buy

At character creation, invest a few skill points into Balance, Jump, and at least one rank of Tumble. Concentrate on maintaining a high Balance skill, but only train 10 ranks of Jump – spells can temporarily raise this skill in party situations, where it really matters.

Skills - Intimidate is also a good one if they can fit it in. I'd say that would be more important unless you solo a lot and need to be able to jump to spots but I don't think 10 jump would help if you are soloing all the content. Intimidate would be better because once the player becomes more informed and comfortable playing with their class, the'll probably start to look for hate gear and it would be better to be able to use the skill on a first life with all their gear rather than have to LR or TR to get that skill.

Otherwise, what you wrote is good.

----------------------------------------

Sky Blue

For a first TWF build, this is pretty good. Dwarven axes are going to be a bit expensive though.

It should probably be mentioned what the penalties for TWF are. Many new players have a hard time hitting TWF because they are trying to use oversized weapons in the off hand. It should also be mentioned that if they are still having trouble hitting while TWF with a correct weapon in the off hand, they should probably just whip out a THF weapon or use a sword and shield since AC is easy to get early, until they get their BAB up a little higher to hit more often while TWF.

[FordyTwo]

I really like the idea of this thread, I also liked it for the sorcerer one.

It is really a thing where the players/forum users see the "powered by our fans" stuff. It's nice to see how such a thing comes together with the help of the community.

However, a new player who reads any of the 101s, will not see that the official guide he reads is actually a community-powered work. It would be pretty neat if the guide would have a tag like "This official guide was created with the help of the DDO Community (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=317886)", where the link goes to the corresponding discussion thread (such as this one).



I am not sure if you did this with the Sorc 101 build, but you might put a link to this thread once you get the Fighter 101 up on the Compendium. That way new players can look at the discussion that has went on to get to the end result. It will be informative to see how others would make adjustments.

Love both of these ideas, and so it will come to pass. :)

[RudeIota]

I dunno if it's too late for this suggestion, but wouldn't ranger 101 be a better place to put a TWF? Especially with the aversion to ranged builds, I can't imagine what else you'd offer to NKOTB for a ranger 101 template.

While TWF is something Rangers are very good at, it is THE class to use for ranged weapons. The proof of that is in the Ranger capstone.

When the time comes, they will likely do an Arcane Archer guide (or Deepwood Sniper since Eladrin confirmed it was being worked on before U9 hit). This is especially likely since they are focusing on making unique guides for each class.. You can only do so much with Melee and they have Fighters and Barbarians already covered.

[FordyTwo]

I've updated the template again! :)

If anyone has recommendations for AC fighter guides, let us know with a link in this thread. We'll be giving some love to any particularly good AC guides in Fighter 101, as it's no easy task to put one together. Even though the 101 guide is meant to be simple and straight-forward, we don't want to leave a new player looking for AC information in the cold.

[QuantumFX]

Stunning Blow, Sunder and Trip are used during combat and have specific uses. A master fighter uses all the tools at their disposal. Note that some of the tougher boss creatures in DDO resist these active abilities, no matter how good a character is at using them.

You should *really* consider making an article on setting up your user interface and making hotkeys for active abilities. And then link it to this part of the article. One of the things I constantly see with new players is that they don’t use stuff like Trip and Sunder because they simply don’t know how it works. It will also come back to help you for your future articles.

Also:
Dwarfs should be Dwarves.
Dwarf Axe should be Dwarven Axe.

[stainer]

I've updated the template again! :)

If anyone has recommendations for AC fighter guides, let us know with a link in this thread. We'll be giving some love to any particularly good AC guides in Fighter 101, as it's no easy task to put one together. Even though the 101 guide is meant to be simple and straight-forward, we don't want to leave a new player looking for AC information in the cold.

Since an AC build is so gear dependent, do you think a 201 guide or even :eek: a graduate level 701 guide is more appropriate?!!??! :)

[Lerl]

I like the guide. I do have a question about LW-GG's character, though. If this is for newbs, they pretty much are going with a 28 point build. Your build is 32 points. What is your reasoning for this?

[Zargarx]

Guide is getting pretty good for the intended audience.
My comments :
Although this guide goes to lvl 20, the first few levels are critical for a newer player. Have leveled up way too many builds, often pugging with new players.
As a two weapon fighter build, I think shield should be excluded with at most a passing remarAlthough shield would be somewhat better, I find it dilutes this build and takes away a key early feat spot. k.
Also two weapon fighting feat should be at level 1 with toughness. Comment to use a handaxe in alt hand until get oversized twf feat. That feat should also be early in the build, but not as early as iron will. Yes this a near useless feat at high levels but until get there I think it quite a good feat for newer players running fighters. It is quite frustrating failing will save after will save.Mention it can be swapped out for toughness when don't need it anymore at high levels.
I think this gives an improved experience for newer players .

[FordyTwo]

Since an AC build is so gear dependent, do you think a 201 guide or even :eek: a graduate level 701 guide is more appropriate?!!??! :)

Cordovan and I chatted about this and agreed it's better to just wait. Thanks for the input!


You should *really* consider making an article on setting up your user interface and making hotkeys for active abilities. And then link it to this part of the article. One of the things I constantly see with new players is that they don’t use stuff like Trip and Sunder because they simply don’t know how it works. It will also come back to help you for your future articles.

Also:
Dwarfs should be Dwarves.
Dwarf Axe should be Dwarven Axe.

I agree with the UI tutorial comment, and the improper use of Dwarf has been corrected. Man, how embarrassing is that? (Thanks, as well!)

[aristarchus1000]

Obviously based on the thread, this has gone through a number of revisions, but I really like the final one. It's a solid dps build that could probably hate-tank as needed. It is really great that you are doing this for Fighter, because the class has so many feats that it can be hard for new player to pick, and they invariably end up picking something bad.

Leveling tips like using Sword and Shield in early levels if they can keep AC high enough, or THF weapon (even though they have TWF feats) until mid levels or so would be great.

I also /sign that we use this template to replace at least one of the paths. Fighters are a common choice for new players, and it some ways one of the more complicated classes to build due to the multiple feats.

[stainer]

Cordovan and I chatted about this and agreed it's better to just wait. Thanks for the input!



Hopefully I didn't discourage you. Building for AC and balancing survivability and damage potential is so difficult. You are doing a good thing here.

[jillie]

Hopefully I didn't discourage you. Building for AC and balancing survivability and damage potential is so difficult. You are doing a good thing here.

/signed

I have a capped Dwarf Kensai fighter, and a guide like this would perhaps have allowed me to eschew one of the LRs I put the toon through as I gained experience with it. An excellent job, and an illustration of just how awesomesauce the community can be when not busy teasiing Stainer!

[FordyTwo]

Hopefully I didn't discourage you. Building for AC and balancing survivability and damage potential is so difficult. You are doing a good thing here.

Creating an AC guide is definitely on our to-do list, but for Fighter 101 it feels like too much info at once.

[bobbryan2]

Creating an AC guide is definitely on our to-do list, but for Fighter 101 it feels like too much info at once.

I wouldn't put it in Fighter 101... but I'd like to say that AC isn't advanced at all at low levels. I mean, what do you really have to cover? What stacks and what doesn't, a few examples of where to get each type, and things like max dex bonus on armor.

What's hard about AC is keeping it viable after the first 10 levels. And all that needs is a bit of a disclaimer. So don't get too shy about doing it... Hard to do and hard to write a guide about are two different things.

[sephiroth1084]

For a very new player guide I would actually consider Iron will especially in early game. Fighter will saves are notoriously bad and most new players don't play with people who know where to cast fom or protection from evil. Getting held in early game can often mean death. New players cant afford heroism pots and don't have girds to boost saves either.

Note: I would never recommend this for an experienced end game build but for the intent of this guide I would probably rate it over quick draw because of the lack of defensive abilities and a newer player isn't going to be as concerned about getting faster action boosts off as they are about why do I get held/commanded then killed so much.
I'd even go so far as to suggest dropping the Int by 2, raising Wis by 2, and replacing a couple of the borederline feats (like Toughness 3) with Iron Will and Bullheaded or Luck of Heroes, particularly if they could be squeezed in early on. Failing Will saves really sucks, and is something fighters have to really worry about, especially early in the game before immunity buffs and items become more prevalent. As weak as they may in our current endgame, they still wouldn't be entirely wasted either. On, say, a half-orc, such advice probably would be fairly pointless, but with the dwarf bonus to saves vs. spells and the AP to advance that, investing in weak saves can actually work out on a fighter.

[sephiroth1084]

Creating an AC guide is definitely on our to-do list, but for Fighter 101 it feels like too much info at once.
Good call, though not just because ti would have been too much info, but also because an AC guide is not 101 material.

There should be one, and it should be comprehensive, but it should also come with caveats and warnings that the path is fraught with difficulties, snags, and is largely unrewarding at the end anyway.

Also, such a guide could probably be split into two categories (heavily armored AC and light/no armored AC characters) that discuss the options available to a few different types of characters who are all on the path to attaining AC, rather than replicating such discussions for each individual class that may be able to achieve significant AC.

[Astraghal]

Assuming that these guides are aimed at the newer or more casual player, I like the idea of a new player friendly Fighter that takes full advantage of the maximum potential of the class. This led me to thinking about which feats the quintessential Fighter should have to build upon. Feats which would allow the new player the flexibility to develop each of the class's strengths according to their own preference.

The feats I was considering in no particular order are:

Toughness
Power Attack
Combat Expertise
Stunning Blow
Improved Trip
Sap
Quickdraw
Improved Critical
Two-Handed Fighting
Improved Two-Handed Fighting
Greater Two-Handed Fighting
Weapon Focus
Weapon Specialization
Greater Weapon Focus
Greater Weapon Specialization
Superior Weapon Focus

I don't think Two-Weapon Fighting is particularly new player friendly, so I stuck with Two-Handed Fighting. The Dexterity requirements for Two-Weapon Fighting are prohibitively high for a new player, assuming they are building their First 28-point build character and it's also probably not a good idea to include tomes.

I was thinking that Dwarf and Human are the two more new player friendly Races to choose from. Dwarves have high Hit Point potential and get combat bonuses with axes, while Humans are flexible and get a bonus feat. The Dwarven racial enhancements to axes synchronizes well with Two-Handed Fighting and Greataxes. The extra feat can allow a Human the flexibility to boost one of their Skills or Saves, take an Exotic Weapon Proficiency (not recommended for new players), or another Toughess Feat.

Whichever race you choose, it would be interesting to see how a basic Fighter template build would perform in the game. Whether the DC's on tactical feats would be high enough to work reliably, whether it could achieve a useful AC, be able to do reasonable DPS or have a high enough Intimidate to be effective later on in the game. I like the idea of a Fighter build that can highlight all of the potential of the class, without too much micro-management, that any new player can easily pick up and just have fun playing.

Using the 28-point build Dwarven Fighter as an example, you could start off with Abilities something like:

Strength: 16
Dexterity: 14
Constitution: 16
Intelligence: 12
Wisdom: 10
Charisma: 6

If you were to put any of the Ability increases into anything but Strength, maybe put one into Intelligence to qualify for Combat Expertise and Improved Trip. Ideally you could use a +1 Tome of Clear Thought to get to 13 Intelligence, but we can't assume the new player will have access to any tomes before level 20. Aside from that, with 12 Intelligence you could maximize the Intimidate, Balance and Jump Skills or put a single rank in Tumble to unlock it. It would probably be better to stick with even ending Abilities, as a +6 Enhancement item is likely the best a new player will see for a while, even at level 20.

Those are my thoughts so far.

Edit: Go Neutral Good so you can use Anarchic, Axiomatic and Pure Good weapons.

[Kmnh]

Two-weapon fighting doesn't work well in the early game, unless you are willing to drink heroism, rage and haste potions before every fight. You might need to drink more haste ones during the longer ones. That's not a newbie-friendly tactic. Taking -4 to hit for a 40% chance to proc an off-hand attack is really bad.

Add a "if you are missing a lot, use a two-hander" line or something like that.

Two-weapon fighting is a good choice past level 11, when Kensei II and your feats help you beat the to-hit penalty. You can buy 10 one-handed weapons for the price of a good greataxe/greatsword/falchion.

At endgame, making a pair of litII khopeshes is quite a grind, but it is better than the von6 lottery. I've seen people with 100+ completions and no esos shard. (please, don't let the newbies craft litII dwarven axes. They are a very costly mistake.)

[sirgog]

Creating an AC guide is definitely on our to-do list, but for Fighter 101 it feels like too much info at once.

To be honest, I'd suggest setting Eladrin onto the AC system and giving it a major overhaul (spellpass level overhaul). Once that's done, THEN write the AC guide.

Unless future endgame content includes monsters with low To-Hit and extreme melee damage (think an Epic trash mob with +45 to-hit that does 120 damage and swings twice per second), AC will remain something casual players should avoid shooting for.

A DPS character that's missing 3 key items (let's say they want to wear Tharne's Goggles, Bloodstone and the Epic Charged Gauntlets, but have none of them) can still perform pretty well at endgame. But a 'pajamas' AC build that's missing the Chattering Ring, Shroud Insight +4 weapon and Icy Raiments just does not function at all - that 11 missing AC might be the difference between Horoth hitting them 20% of the time and 75% of the time.

DPS performance scales smoothly with gear. AC's effectiveness, on the other hand, is non-existent until a quite high baseline is reached (Exhausted Elite Horoth* hits a 73 AC on a 2, so there is no difference between an 8 AC and a 73 AC in this situation). Then every point of AC is a significant jump. Epic mob To-Hit is even higher - if my testing is accurate, Angog the Champion in eVON1 hits an 88 AC on a 2 when Exhausted, and doesn't reliably miss a 90 AC tank unless the minotaur has got pretty much every reasonably manageable debuff applied (Stength Sapping, Waves of Exhaustion, 10 points of Str damage which isn't easy to stack on Epic, Ray of Enfeeblement)

This makes AC very unforgiving for new players. AC characters hit a brick wall around level 14 or 15 where their AC in readily available gear (+4 or better mith FP, +4 or better mith TS) stops holding up and they can only improve with raid loot that is just not really accessible prior to 20 in most cases.



* I don't expect Fighter 101 readers to be toe-to-toe with Elite Horoth, he's just a boss whose exact To-Hit is known and that I have committed to memory. Maybe normal Suulomades (in VoD) is a better choice of boss, I think he's +56 to hit but I'm not sure. If that is the case, an AC of 58 is equivalent to an AC of 8.

[Ralmeth]

One minor edit, under the feat explanation you'll want to change the following. Currently, it is shown as:


Toughness (Level 1 & 14)
Shield Mastery (Level 18)
Quick Draw (Level 18)


With the new feat progression, you'll want to update to:


Toughness (Level 1, 12, 15, 18)
Shield Mastery (Level 3)
Quick Draw (Level 18)

[Astraghal]

Assuming that these guides are aimed at the newer or more casual player, I like the idea of a new player friendly Fighter that takes full advantage of the maximum potential of the class. This led me to thinking about which feats the quintessential Fighter should have to build upon. Feats which would allow the new player the flexibility to develop each of the class's strengths according to their own preference.

The feats I was considering in no particular order are:

Toughness
Power Attack
Combat Expertise
Stunning Blow
Improved Trip
Sap
Quickdraw
Improved Critical
Two-Handed Fighting
Improved Two-Handed Fighting
Greater Two-Handed Fighting
Weapon Focus
Weapon Specialization
Greater Weapon Focus
Greater Weapon Specialization
Superior Weapon Focus

I don't think Two-Weapon Fighting is particularly new player friendly, so I stuck with Two-Handed Fighting. The Dexterity requirements for Two-Weapon Fighting are prohibitively high for a new player, assuming they are building their First 28-point build character and it's also probably not a good idea to include tomes.

I was thinking that Dwarf and Human are the two more new player friendly Races to choose from. Dwarves have high Hit Point potential and get combat bonuses with axes, while Humans are flexible and get a bonus feat. The Dwarven racial enhancements to axes synchronizes well with Two-Handed Fighting and Greataxes. The extra feat can allow a Human the flexibility to boost one of their Skills or Saves, take an Exotic Weapon Proficiency (not recommended for new players), or another Toughess Feat.

Whichever race you choose, it would be interesting to see how a basic Fighter template build would perform in the game. Whether the DC's on tactical feats would be high enough to work reliably, whether it could achieve a useful AC, be able to do reasonable DPS or have a high enough Intimidate to be effective later on in the game. I like the idea of a Fighter build that can highlight all of the potential of the class, without too much micro-management, that any new player can easily pick up and just have fun playing.

Using the 28-point build Dwarven Fighter as an example, you could start off with Abilities something like:

Strength: 16
Dexterity: 14
Constitution: 16
Intelligence: 12
Wisdom: 10
Charisma: 6

If you were to put any of the Ability increases into anything but Strength, maybe put one into Intelligence to qualify for Combat Expertise and Improved Trip. Ideally you could use a +1 Tome of Clear Thought to get to 13 Intelligence, but we can't assume the new player will have access to any tomes before level 20. Aside from that, with 12 Intelligence you could maximize the Intimidate, Balance and Jump Skills or put a single rank in Tumble to unlock it. It would probably be better to stick with even ending Abilities, as a +6 Enhancement item is likely the best a new player will see for a while, even at level 20.

Those are my thoughts so far.

Edit: Go Neutral Good so you can use Anarchic, Axiomatic and Pure Good weapons.


Concerning the OP, I'm not sure that Shield Mastery is worth taking on such a pure DPS build. That Fighter is never likely to be using a shield and I would recommend taking another Toughness feat instead.

Fleshing out my idea of what a general purpose Fighter could look like, I've selected feats at levels which would qualify this Fighter for the path of the Kensai or Stalwart Defender when those Prestige Enhancements become available (at levels 6, 12 and 18). This Fighter won't have the same raw DPS and Hit Points as the pure Strength, Constitution and Toughness based Two-Weapon Fighting Fighter, but it allows the new player to experience the full range and versatility of what the Fighter class has to offer and SHOULD™ be solid through to level 20.



Kensai Variant


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.9.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 Neutral Good Dwarf Male
(20 Fighter)
Hit Points: 382
Spell Points: 0
BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
Fortitude: 16
Reflex: 8
Will: 8

Starting Ending
Abilities Base Stats Base Stats
(28 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 16 20
Dexterity 14 14
Constitution 16 16
Intelligence 12 13
Wisdom 10 10
Charisma 6 6

Starting Ending
Base Skills Base Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 4 13
Bluff -2 -2
Concentration 3 4
Diplomacy -2 -2
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle -2 -2
Heal 0 0
Hide 2 2
Intimidate 2 21
Jump 5 28
Listen 0 0
Move Silently 2 2
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 1 1
Search 1 1
Spot 0 0
Swim 3 6
Tumble 3 3
Use Magic Device n/a n/a

Level 1 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Shield Mastery
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 3 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting


Level 4 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons


Level 5 (Fighter)


Level 6 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack


Level 7 (Fighter)


Level 8 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: INT
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 9 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Combat Expertise


Level 10 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 11 (Fighter)


Level 12 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons


Level 13 (Fighter)


Level 14 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Stunning Blow


Level 15 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Trip


Level 16 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Sap


Level 17 (Fighter)


Level 18 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Iron Will
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Superior Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 19 (Fighter)


Level 20 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Quick Draw
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost III
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost III
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost IV
Enhancement: Fighter Weapon Alacrity
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage I
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage II
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution I
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution II
Enhancement: Dwarven Tactics I
Enhancement: Dwarven Tactics II
Enhancement: Kensei Greataxe Mastery I
Enhancement: Kensei Greataxe Mastery II
Enhancement: Kensei Greataxe Mastery III
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy III
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei I
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei II
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei III
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Stunning Blow) I
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Stunning Blow) II
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Trip) I
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Trip) II
Enhancement: Fighter Greataxe Specialization I
Enhancement: Fighter Greataxe Specialization II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness III






Stalwart Defender Variant


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.9.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 Neutral Good Dwarf Male
(20 Fighter)
Hit Points: 382
Spell Points: 0
BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
Fortitude: 16
Reflex: 8
Will: 8

Starting Ending
Abilities Base Stats Base Stats
(28 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 16 20
Dexterity 14 14
Constitution 16 16
Intelligence 12 13
Wisdom 10 10
Charisma 6 6

Starting Ending
Base Skills Base Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 4 13
Bluff -2 -2
Concentration 3 4
Diplomacy -2 -2
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle -2 -2
Heal 0 0
Hide 2 2
Intimidate 2 21
Jump 5 28
Listen 0 0
Move Silently 2 2
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 1 1
Search 1 1
Spot 0 0
Swim 3 6
Tumble 3 3
Use Magic Device n/a n/a

Level 1 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Shield Mastery
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 3 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting


Level 4 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons


Level 5 (Fighter)


Level 6 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack


Level 7 (Fighter)


Level 8 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: INT
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 9 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Combat Expertise


Level 10 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 11 (Fighter)


Level 12 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons


Level 13 (Fighter)


Level 14 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Stunning Blow


Level 15 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Trip


Level 16 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Sap


Level 17 (Fighter)


Level 18 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Iron Will
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Superior Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 19 (Fighter)


Level 20 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Quick Draw
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost III
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost III
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost IV
Enhancement: Fighter Weapon Alacrity
Enhancement: Dwarven Armor Mastery I
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage I
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage II
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution I
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution II
Enhancement: Dwarven Tactics I
Enhancement: Dwarven Tactics II
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Mastery I
Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender I
Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender II
Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender III
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Stunning Blow) I
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Stunning Blow) II
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Trip) I
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Trip) II
Enhancement: Fighter Dwarven Waraxe Specialization I
Enhancement: Fighter Dwarven Waraxe Specialization II
Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense I
Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate I
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness III





These are just basic templates of my take on the vanilla Fighter build, which could be further tweaked in different directions as random loot generator items are replaced with crafted items and raid gear. As the new player progresses, they will eventually be able to aquire +2 tomes for their main Abilities.

Iron Will could be replaced with another Toughness feat, but I've included it to demonstrate an effort to shore up the weakest save on this Fighter. I'm not sure that Sap is a very Fighter oriented feat, but it seems too good to pass up and will give the busy player an extra combat tactic to use against foes.

Maximizing Balance, Intimidate and Jump seemed like the logical path to take with Skills, no need to complicate things here. I'd personally leave Jump around 10 and put the rest in Spot and going for useful UMD would be stretching this 28-point build a bit far.

[Arlathen]

I Haven't read the entire thread, but did read through the OP and it seems fairly solid. A couple of suggestions:

1) Despite the build slant to Slashing, Warhammers should be noted as useful secondary weapons. Firstly, they offer Stunning bonus' that Slashing weapons don't have, and offer a better situational weapon vs. Skeletons.

2) Encourage the use of 'Tactical Feats' further. Kensai Fighters, especially Dwarven ones, offer a degree of melee based crowd control that other melee classes find hard to match when running as a pure class.

i. Recommend taking Dwarf Racial Tactics enhancements to further boost Stunning Blow/Trip/Sunder on top of the Fighter enhancements.

ii. Potentially swap in Sap for one of the miscellaneous Toughness feats.

This helps make a Fighter class based character a much more 'Active' combat participant, and helps increase the fun that can be had instead of just mindless mouse button holding. If a Fighter can Stun a mob, trip the next, Sap a third, then Sunder and smash a fourth mob to bits, he contributes so much more to a party than mindless mash-mash-mash.

My 2p worth :)

[silvermesh]

I would honestly take shield mastery at level1 and wait to take TwF until 3 or 4. Everyone wants to come out the door whipping around two weapons, but even with a light offhand it just plain isn't very effective at low level with no notable attack bonuses(especially on a 28 pointer with 16 STR). shield mastery is a feat the character will be able to take advantage of right out the door because he will start out with a decent little ember longsword and a shield. just make thorough notes about why you want to do this. set them on the right path to get the goggles of insight and the anger set in korthos. with those two things usually you can TwF fairly well in normal content, though without the higher level feats you may be better off just taking advantage of a shield and the glancing blows from the waraxe.

[karl_k0ch]

It has been said already, but it might have been unnoticed.

A fighter is a master of weapons, and these feats improve both your accuracy and damage potential with slashing weapons, such as short swords and axes. Moreover, these feats enable the Kensei Prestige Enhancement class (see Enhancements, below), a powerful class-boost for the two weapon fighter.

The bolded weaponry (short sword) is a piercing weapon. I suggest to change the sentence to "such as Dwarven Axes and Handaxes."
Axes only, because that's what Dwarves get their bonuses for (regardless if Hand-, Great-, or Battle.) and the Handaxe in order to list a light weapon which grants a better to-hit, if needed situationally, at least before OTWF is taken.