To all Annoying chest Blessers...

[Kokanee]

Last Weekend I was yelled by a Chest Blesser in a shroud Run!

Sadly it was mentioned in party chat before.
But I was distracted and unfortunately opened the chest before the said "Blesser" could get to the chest.

Yes, I know it can boost the loot in +1 for everyone.
But why some people get so worked up about it?

Is it really worth the trouble?

I mean Seriously?

A great way to waste feats imo....

/rant off

[karl_k0ch]

Is this "I won't tell you how to spend your feats and you won't tell me how to loot."?

Jokes aside, which trouble actually?
Waiting half a minute? Remembering that people can do certain stuff? Being considerate?

I agree, being yelled at is totally uncool.

To quote a chest blesser with whom I grouped recently: "It's all Turbines fault. They should have made the animation way shorter."

Edit: Oh, and yes. To me it's worth the trouble and I cringe everytime I forget that there is a chest blesser in the party. Especially when I announced it via voice chat 10 seconds ago. Yes, that actually happened (on Saturday, farming Vol. Hello Rabid and Goldy*)

*Names shortened for anonymization.

[Khanyth]

Clearly, someone has never pulled some good loot from a blessed chest.

My loot was so good, I married her.


<bah-dah-boom-ching>




Thank you... thank you..... I'll be here all week. Tip your waitress and try the veal!!!

[redraider]

I don't wait for chests to be blessed. I dont wait for traps to be disabled.

EVER! almost... See below

If you want to to do it, fine. Don't ask me to play your way (unless it was in the LFM then I'll be courteous as I joined you)

[Jaid314]

To quote a chest blesser with whom I grouped recently: "It's all Turbines fault. They should have made the animation way shorter."

also the cooldown. from what i hear, you have to wait 10 seconds or something like that between chests... i can't imagine it's needed for balance reasons.

but anyways, if someone is willing to improve the loot i'm getting, and gets annoyed when i make their feats useless, well, that's to be expected. i imagine someone who spent a lot of feats getting the ability wants to be able to use it, in exactly the same way that someone who spent a lot of feats to be an effective tank will get annoyed if some idiot decides to turn on all their aggro-increasing abilities just so that they can show how big their e-peen is when fighting sully, or just like a bard gets annoyed when people spread out and each attack a separate fascinated mob, or just like casters get annoyed when melees refuse to fight in the persistent AOE spells they lay down (be it damage or CC), or how melees get annoyed when someone decides to pull aggro and kite things all over the place, or healers get annoyed when they meet a WF that has absolutely no healer's friend whatsoever, etc.

yelling isn't particularly cool, but then again neither is deliberately taking away from someone else's usefulness. i've found that i've never been yelled at by a chest blesser for not opening the chest before they can bless it, just like i've never been yelled at for not pulling boss aggro when i wasn't supposed to, just like i've never been yelled at for fighting in the persistent AOEs other people throw down, just like i've never been yelled at for focusing all attacks on a single fascinated mob, just like i've never been yelled at for having healer's friend. treat other people right, and in general they'll treat you right. problem solved.

unless it was explicitly a fast/no buffs/zerg shroud run, i see no problems with letting the guy bless the chests. true, it may not be the most useful way to spend the feats, but once they're spent, deliberately making sure they actually can't be used is just being a jerk for the sake of being a jerk.

[karl_k0ch]

OP, I am actually glad that you did not address the non-annoying blessers. :)

Oh, and Jaid314: +1.

[Ovrad]

I was once screamed at and insulted because I said that there was little lag in a raid... Because of course, that angers the lag god and he'll strike down your party in retribution, yup that's how it works.

[Aelithia]

Oh, yes. It's bad enough that I've spent (almost wasted, even in my eyes) three feats on the ability. Making it take a second or two seems fine, including a decreased cool-down. Just kicking the chest as the animation would work, and let one move on before the PUGs open the next chest.

As for the 'annoying chest blessers'... +1 to **** is still ****, agreed, but it still hurts when I start the animation and see the party members open the chest before the animation is even half-way done.

[sephiroth1084]

Oh, yes. It's bad enough that I've wasted, even in my eyes, three feats on the ability.
Fixed that for ya. :p

[Tuney]

It isn't so bad when you are in a group where you know you are in a race to bless the chest first so you can use your DM. BUT what really hurts is you tell them up front befor the quest starts or even in the quest that you possess said Dragon marks and they say they will let you use it to bless chests. You explain to them if they never seen someone use it befor. First time you just kindly remind them (or I do) but if they do it several times... it starts to get annoying. Like the same level of annoying when a bard fasinatines a huge mob that the party can not handle and someone drops a weak AoE to wake them all up.

[SaisMatters]

I bless this thread.

[Kaeldur]

also the cooldown. from what i hear, you have to wait 10 seconds or something like that between chests... i can't imagine it's needed for balance reasons.

but anyways, if someone is willing to improve the loot i'm getting, and gets annoyed when i make their feats useless, well, that's to be expected. i imagine someone who spent a lot of feats getting the ability wants to be able to use it, in exactly the same way that someone who spent a lot of feats to be an effective tank will get annoyed if some idiot decides to turn on all their aggro-increasing abilities just so that they can show how big their e-peen is when fighting sully, or just like a bard gets annoyed when people spread out and each attack a separate fascinated mob, or just like casters get annoyed when melees refuse to fight in the persistent AOE spells they lay down (be it damage or CC), or how melees get annoyed when someone decides to pull aggro and kite things all over the place, or healers get annoyed when they meet a WF that has absolutely no healer's friend whatsoever, etc.

yelling isn't particularly cool, but then again neither is deliberately taking away from someone else's usefulness. i've found that i've never been yelled at by a chest blesser for not opening the chest before they can bless it, just like i've never been yelled at for not pulling boss aggro when i wasn't supposed to, just like i've never been yelled at for fighting in the persistent AOEs other people throw down, just like i've never been yelled at for focusing all attacks on a single fascinated mob, just like i've never been yelled at for having healer's friend. treat other people right, and in general they'll treat you right. problem solved.

unless it was explicitly a fast/no buffs/zerg shroud run, i see no problems with letting the guy bless the chests. true, it may not be the most useful way to spend the feats, but once they're spent, deliberately making sure they actually can't be used is just being a jerk for the sake of being a jerk.

^ this
+1

[karl_k0ch]

I bless this thread.

Too late. It's already open.

[dragons1ayer74]

Would be nice if you could bless opened chests and it effected loot that had not yet been taken then people that could not wait 5 seconds for it to open could just open it and move along and those that wanted to wait could...everyone wins.

[Lost_Leader]

I avoid the "I boost chests" lfms more than I avoid any other type. Unless I am in the mood to watch/listen to someone melt down. Everytime I have run with these folks who have burned feats, someone always opens the chest too early. It is almost always innocent, just auto-piloting "oops" opened the chest. And every run I have been in the "blessed" explodes over voice chat.

Had a funny shroud run where a different person forgot each time and 5 chests were opened. The chest blesser couldnt even breath at the end of it.

On a personal view, I can't think of many worse ways to waste feats than to take these things. I have seen favored souls and clerics on my server with "I boost chests" lfms. How the heck do you drop three useful feats on such feat starved classes for a tiny increase in vendor fodder? Maybe, maybe on a fighter, could I see it. But not really.

[Nandos]

OP it doesn't matter how many 20s you have. Or how good you think you are. You got yelled at, because you were playing like an unskilled noob, who just couldn't wait the 10 seconds it took to benefit the party/raid.

I have a midlevel bard with this ability and could type an essay explaining how frustrating these abilities are when dealing with other players, but I won't. It took my guildies about a month to get used to them. I've never yelled though, it is just a computer game after all.

[yhelm123]

I find (as a chest blesser) that you just write-off the first chest as "practice". Opening a chest is a reflex... one that most of us do without even thinking (many times even before the Rogue can yell "TRAP!"). Yelling isn't going to help. You just remind them you can get them a bonus if they want it.

You can't get worked up about it. And if you are with a group that keeps forgetting then just don't try to use it anymore. Take the loot you're given, and try again in the next group. This is, after all, played for fun, right? Not going to lose sleep over a missed +1 upgrade to yet another shield pull ;)

[Kokanee]

You got yelled at, because you were playing like an unskilled noob.

Since you are saying that its ok to yell at unskilled noobs.

And you are spending 3 Bard Feats (out of 7/8) on DM of Finding.

Go look at the mirror and Yell at yourself Sir. :cool:


I mean Seriously...

[AtomicMew]

OP it doesn't matter how many 20s you have. Or how good you think you are. You got yelled at, because you were playing like an unskilled noob, who just couldn't wait the 10 seconds it took to benefit the party/raid.
First off, that's a lie, it often takes much longer to bless the chest, especially with repeated failures and the fact that you're rarely the first one there. Secondly, from a power-gaming perspective, there's almost zero reason to take these feats. They do not even increase the chance for named loot.

That, combined with the opportunity cost of however long it takes for you to bless the chest, and the opportunity cost of contributing much less in battle, it's pretty obvious that they are NOT profitable. You are far better off using those feats to make your toon intrinsically better, rather than making the entire raid/quest take longer, just for, on average, a few extra plat.

[Gkar]

Since we've been told in the past that a chest is considered "opened" again by each new player I've always worked on the assumption that if I open before a blesser it only hurts me and not those who wait. Until a dev says otherwise I'll continue to believe that and ignore any screaming people.

[karl_k0ch]

They do not even increase the chance for named loot.

Do they increase the chance for better renown rewards? If yes, that's would be interesting for a power gamer as well.

[fuzzy1guy]

Who in the world could have ever seen this comming!

Oh wait. I did. lol http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?p=3287855#post3287855


And the term is LOOTHOOKER™. not chest blesser. rofl

[Kalari]

My opinion is people take the damned game far to seriously. Really your really going to get upset because someone opened a chest before you got to do your stuff? No I do not believe its the same as someone unfascinating my bard's mobs since especially in epics can turn a bad situation worst, same for the tank analogy. Sorry but even trying to line those same situations makes me think the person typing it never raided (sorry just my opinion on that.)

So you decided to spend your time with an ohh ahh look what I can do feat, it may even come across as "the nice thing to do." But many ive seen just want to show off so people can call them generous for helping loot, and seriously many of us (not all but many) don't even care about loot even more now that I just use it to crunch for crafting essences. So if I get melted down on for opening a chest by one of these generous beings I am going to give it back to them just as good.

The only male that was ever allowed to yell at me was my daddy and he didn't play ddo.. Keep your tirades to yourself its only a freaking game and your +1 loot isn't going to be the end of the world if it doesnt happen.

[SardaofChaos]

First off, that's a lie, it often takes much longer to bless the chest, especially with repeated failures and the fact that you're rarely the first one there. Secondly, from a power-gaming perspective, there's almost zero reason to take these feats. They do not even increase the chance for named loot.

That, combined with the opportunity cost of however long it takes for you to bless the chest, and the opportunity cost of contributing much less in battle, it's pretty obvious that they are NOT profitable. You are far better off using those feats to make your toon intrinsically better, rather than making the entire raid/quest take longer, just for, on average, a few extra plat.

So, I could have 66 more health, or I could have a much increased chance of pulling greensteel ingredients and give the same to everyone else in the party. As well as the extra plat pulled in from using it on every other chest when soloing things or doing stuff with people I know.

I think I'll take the extra gs and plat.

Sure, if you've got this on something that barely has any feats to take in the first place, you might not be doing so well. But there aren't that many builds that can truly be labeled "feat-starved". There're just a lot of builds that aren't uber-maxed-solo-everything-gods.

[Jaid314]

My opinion is people take the damned game far to seriously. Really your really going to get upset because someone opened a chest before you got to do your stuff? No I do not believe its the same as someone unfascinating my bard's mobs since especially in epics can turn a bad situation worst, same for the tank analogy. Sorry but even trying to line those same situations makes me think the person typing it never raided (sorry just my opinion on that.)

So you decided to spend your time with an ohh ahh look what I can do feat, it may even come across as "the nice thing to do." But many ive seen just want to show off so people can call them generous for helping loot, and seriously many of us (not all but many) don't even care about loot even more now that I just use it to crunch for crafting essences. So if I get melted down on for opening a chest by one of these generous beings I am going to give it back to them just as good.

The only male that was ever allowed to yell at me was my daddy and he didn't play ddo.. Keep your tirades to yourself its only a freaking game and your +1 loot isn't going to be the end of the world if it doesnt happen.

if you don't care about the loot so much, then don't open the **** chest. if you do like getting loot, i fail to see how you can be upset about getting more loot. if you use the loot to get essences, then it should be even better, because not only is there a miniscule chance you'll pull your dream weapon/armor/accessory/whatever, but every single thing that gets boosted by one level has a better chance of giving you more essences. (and if you don't, everything that gets boosted is worth more plat when you sell it)

and while they may not be on the same scale as the tank or fascinated mob version, the simple fact is, you're still just being a jerk for the sake of being a jerk. it may not be as bad if i spit in your face rather than punch you in the head, but that doesn't mean it's appropriate for me to spit in your face so long as i don't punch you in the head.

[Kalari]

if you don't care about the loot so much, then don't open the **** chest. if you do like getting loot, i fail to see how you can be upset about getting more loot. if you use the loot to get essences, then it should be even better, because not only is there a miniscule chance you'll pull your dream weapon/armor/accessory/whatever, but every single thing that gets boosted by one level has a better chance of giving you more essences. (and if you don't, everything that gets boosted is worth more plat when you sell it)

and while they may not be on the same scale as the tank or fascinated mob version, the simple fact is, you're still just being a jerk for the sake of being a jerk. it may not be as bad if i spit in your face rather than punch you in the head, but that doesn't mean it's appropriate for me to spit in your face so long as i don't punch you in the head.

Are you kidding me? so you condone someone melting down over voice over loot in a game? okay buddy you have your fun and I will stick to people who actually have fun and dont treat the game and little oops like they are the same as getting spit in the face. This whole convo is crazy if anyone is that personally upset over an open chest then I definitely wont run with them period and if they yell at me hell yeah they will get it right back.

[Narmolanya]

I have run in a few pugs with the chest blessers and to honest I always seem to get the same junk loot regardless. Just seems like a waste of time to me but I will not open the chest early if they want to bless it, just not something I would waste feats on myself.

[Jaid314]

Are you kidding me? so you condone someone melting down over voice over loot in a game? okay buddy you have your fun and I will stick to people who actually have fun and dont treat the game and little oops like they are the same as getting spit in the face. This whole convo is crazy if anyone is that personally upset over an open chest then I definitely wont run with them period and if they yell at me hell yeah they will get it right back.

i condone someone being upset when you decide to be a jerk to them. the precise nature of the offensive thing you decide to do just because you want to be a jerk is irrelevant. don't be a jerk, and you usually won't get yelled at for being a jerk.

don't complain that people don't appreciate it when you treat them like garbage, and i won't point out that it is perfectly reasonable for them to be upset when you treat them like garbage.

that is a person on the other end of the voice chat. not a robot. not a piece of property. not a minion for you to rule over so that you can be buffed into some sort of uber nigh-deific being. they deserve to have their fun too, and treating them with courtesy and respect is neither wrong nor foolish.

[Kalari]

i condone someone being upset when you decide to be a jerk to them. the precise nature of the offensive thing you decide to do just because you want to be a jerk is irrelevant. don't be a jerk, and you usually won't get yelled at for being a jerk.

don't complain that people don't appreciate it when you treat them like garbage, and i won't point out that it is perfectly reasonable for them to be upset when you treat them like garbage.

that is a person on the other end of the voice chat. not a robot. not a piece of property. not a minion for you to rule over so that you can be buffed into some sort of uber nigh-deific being. they deserve to have their fun too, and treating them with courtesy and respect is neither wrong nor foolish.

Here's a little story pal that happened to a group in a raid with one of your "blessed chest people" IN a shroud most people run for speed and efficiency but there are a few of us who are still laid back about it. A few of my friends got into a shroud that was running smoothly and while I trust they were not the ones opening the chest someone else did twice and had a so called generous loot puller go nuts. Sometimes things like that happens it does not give anyone the right to go off period and I dont care what you think of a person who simply opens a chest, you can call them a jerk or whatever its a game and when you get to the point where your feats are more important then peoples fun then your a person I hope to never run with. Its loot there will be more if you play if your so bent out of shape over something like this Id hate to see how a person like this functions in reality you know where bad stuff really does matter. :rolleyes:

[karnokvolrath]

If you are lucky enough to get a chest blesser in your group you need to wait.

The other 11 people in the raid want the +1 chest even if you dont, your being rude and basically saying, "My 12 seconds is more important then your loot".

Not to mention that its a somewhat higher level quest so there is chances at +2 tomes.

Im just going to flat out say it, the OP is in the wrong IMO.

[theboatman]

Since we've been told in the past that a chest is considered "opened" again by each new player I've always worked on the assumption that if I open before a blesser it only hurts me and not those who wait. Until a dev says otherwise I'll continue to believe that and ignore any screaming people.

Nope, incorrect. Once a chest has been popped by anyone at all, it can no longer be effected by the House Tharashk Greater Dragonmark of Finding.

[Gkar]

Who in the world could have ever seen this comming!

Oh wait. I did. lol http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?p=3287855#post3287855


And the term is LOOTHOOKER™. not chest blesser. rofl

Yup, you saw it coming alright. There was much wisdom in that thread.


oy, this was a mistake.

Making it for self only, not a bad idea. For party...its only going to cause headaches

[Gkar]

Nope, incorrect. Once a chest has been popped by anyone at all, it can no longer be effected by the House Tharashk Greater Dragonmark of Finding.

Evidence please.

[Ryiah]

So, I could have 66 more health, or I could have a much increased chance of pulling greensteel ingredients and give the same to everyone else in the party. As well as the extra plat pulled in from using it on every other chest when soloing things or doing stuff with people I know.

I want some citations from the developers that what you're saying is correct. Because last I knew, it only increased the level of randomly generated loot. While that might increase the amount of platinum/gold you're pulling, I don't believe it applies to materials like those used in making green steel.

Oh and this entire discussion is why I've more or less ceased grouping with people I don't know.

[AtomicMew]

I think I'll take the extra gs and plat.
Do you have proof that it increases the chance of GS mats? I searched, but couldn't find anything about it.


Sure, if you've got this on something that barely has any feats to take in the first place, you might not be doing so well. But there aren't that many builds that can truly be labeled "feat-starved". There're just a lot of builds that aren't uber-maxed-solo-everything-gods.
Post your build. I'm guessing it's a bard/fighter mix?

[theboatman]

Evidence: I carried the dragonmarks on my SS bard for a long time, since it was just my shroud farmer, and I had the charisma to support it.

There are three possible animations when using the feat.

1. Swirling Red/Purple/Pink Light coming up from the chest, similar to the Radiant Servant burst. Translation: Success!

2. Swirling Sparlky, but no other animation. Translation: no success.

3. Shield Symbol appears above the chest, similar to the one that shows when you absorb a special type attack while blocking. Translation: chest cannot be influenced.

You will see the third animation on all raid warded chests, chests that contain keys and no other loot, and chests that have been opened. Anyone with a current dragonmarked character can confirm the above, or see http://ddowiki.com/page/Dragonmark_of_Finding for more information.

Just because each player 'opens' a chest individually doesnt mean that it continues to be unopened after the first player; the same way that a quest is 'opened' by each player, but after the first opens and enters it is no longer 'unopened.'

[theboatman]

I want some citations from the developers that what you're saying is correct. Because last I knew, it only increased the level of randomly generated loot. While that might increase the amount of platinum/gold you're pulling, I don't believe it applies to materials like those used in making green steel.

Oh and this entire discussion is why I've more or less ceased grouping with people I don't know.

The Greater Dragonmark of Finding does not increase the chances of shroud ingredients.

[theboatman]

Do you have proof that it increases the chance of GS mats? I searched, but couldn't find anything about it.


Post your build. I'm guessing it's a bard/fighter mix?

Nope, pure human charisma based spellsinger. Current feats are Toughness, Emp. Heal, Extend, Maximize, Heighten, Spell Focus: Enchant, Greater Focus: Enchant, Spell Penetration. It's very easy to drop three of those feats on a Haggle-Bard that only heals shrouds for ingredients.

[phillymiket]

Yelling is bad.
No reason.
Usually, it's an accident when someone opens.

If someone is doing it on purpose then squelch.

I have mixed feelings about the feats.
I'd never take them myself, first of all.

If the quest drops tomes, for example, I'm very, very happy to have a blesser. The time it takes to have someone bless is less then the extra time it would take to run the quest one level of difficulty higher. If someone is so impatient that they spoil the added chance of 11 other people pulling a tome then that's pretty selfish IMO. Please, DO NOT open the chest on TOD with a blesser in the party until it is blessed.

When the quest has just vendor trash, when the dragon-marked person is running back to shrines to re-set the marks, when it takes more time then running another quest then get off it please.

[theboatman]

Yelling is bad.
No reason.
Usually, it's an accident when someone opens.

If someone is doing it on purpose then squelch.

I have mixed feelings about the feats.
I'd never take them myself, first of all.

If the quest drops tomes, for example, I'm very, very happy to have a blesser. The time it takes to have someone bless is less then the extra time it would take to run the quest one level of difficulty higher. If someone is so impatient that they spoil the added chance of 11 other people pulling a tome then that's pretty selfish IMO. Please, DO NOT open the chest on TOD with a blesser in the party until it is blessed.

When the quest has just vendor trash, when the dragon-marked person is running back to shrines to re-set the marks, when it takes more time then running another quest then get off it please.

This is the issue with the marks, exactly.

Some people use loot gems, others dont. But the increase of chest level is real, particularly when stacked with a gem and bonus weekend. It comes down to efficiency; some of the community of players would rather just farm more than wait for a gimmicky mechanic, even if shown proof that it works.

Tomes are the big thing that it influences, as it does work on the Vod and Hox chests. But there was a screenshot of a pair of +5 metal/pg handwraps, min20, that someone pulled after the chest was blessed. Is it possible with the mark, yes. Is it probable, no, not even with the mark. Some people are just in too much of a hurry to be bothered.

The core issue is that neither side has the right to impose their playstyle upon the other. The best solution I had when I was marked on my bard was to start my own group, and indicate that marks would be in use. Similar to a zerger that joined a 'new-player friendly' lfm and got upset that the pace was too slow, someone that was frustrated they had to wait to loot had no one to blame but themself. I had enough people more than happy to get a near constant +1 on their chests to run pretty much anything.

[Kokanee]

If you are lucky enough to get a chest blesser in your group you need to wait.
I Feel Very Lucky! When I get a chest blesser in my groups that Does Not yell at me or anyone else for having accidentally ruined the +1 change on trash loot.


The other 11 people in the raid want the +1 chest even if you dont, your being rude and basically saying, "My 12 seconds is more important then your loot".
Following your rationale: "My +1 increase on trash loot is more important then your 2.4 or more minutes" (yes 12 chests = more chances of failed blessings)


Not to mention that its a somewhat higher level quest so there is chances at +2 tomes.
The "Blessing" only works for randomly generated loot. So no better chance of tomes, GS mats, or any other special ingredients. I would love to see any evidence proving me wrong.

[Bargol]

I have ony seen a "chest blesser" on two ocasions (once in shroud and once on vale runs).

Honestly they are wasted feats and only boost vendor trash. They don't work on raid chests or shroud materials....so why would other players care if they get a few copper more when vendoring?

[Xionanx]

Whats sad is that when I first came back to the game recently, someone was telling me not to loot so they could "bless" a chest and I thought to myself.. "OMG, another one of those ******** wackos who thinks you can hug a chest for better loot!":rolleyes:

Anyway... Turbine should have simply made it an innate ability that only works if your the first person to OPEN the chest. You open the chest, the ability triggers, and you and everyone after you gets better loot.

[theboatman]

I Fell Very Lucky! When I get a chest blesser in my groups that Does Not yell at me or anyone else for having accidentally ruined the +1 change on trash loot.


Following your rationale: "My +1 increase on trash loot is more important then your 2.4 or more minutes" (yes 12 chests = more chances of failed blessings)


The "Blessing" only works for randomly generated loot. So no better chance of tomes, GS mats, or any other special ingredients. I would love to see any evidence proving me wrong.

So if you knew that a holy bursting silver khopesh (or whatever weapon you want, really) of greater evil outside bane was your 'trash loot' rolled by the system, would you want the chest blesser to go to every length possible to make sure the chest was high enough level to allow it to appear?

Thats exactly how tomes work within the chests.

A comparison of examples:
Anecdotal named raid loot-normal/hard/etc. While there may not be any advantage for running the raid on elite vs normal, there is no possible way that the loot will be any better on normal than elite.

Dragonmark Blessed chests. While there may not be an advantage of waiting for the chest to be blessed, there can be no advantage if the chest is not blessed.

Dragonmark Chest mechanics. While there may be players that are uneducated to the mechanics of the dragonmark of finding, education on the topic will not prevent the dismissal of the mechanic by players that have the knowledge, but just don't care.

[theboatman]

I have ony seen a "chest blesser" on two ocasions (once in shroud and once on vale runs).

Honestly they are wasted feats and only boost vendor trash. They don't work on raid chests or shroud materials....so why would other players care if they get a few copper more when vendoring?

One players vendor trash is another players Holy Burst/metal property/of Greater bane.

[theboatman]

Whats sad is that when I first came back to the game recently, someone was telling me not to loot so they could "bless" a chest and I thought to myself.. "OMG, another one of those ******** wackos who thinks you can hug a chest for better loot!":rolleyes:

Anyway... Turbine should have simply made it an innate ability that only works if your the first person to OPEN the chest. You open the chest, the ability triggers, and you and everyone after you gets better loot.

Actually, the best way would be as someone stated earlier: anyone looting after the chest is successfully marked would recieve the benefit; how dare Turbine force players to be social in an online game :P

[Deanarth]

Whats sad is that when I first came back to the game recently, someone was telling me not to loot so they could "bless" a chest and I thought to myself.. "OMG, another one of those ******** wackos who thinks you can hug a chest for better loot!":rolleyes:

Anyway... Turbine should have simply made it an innate ability that only works if your the first person to OPEN the chest. You open the chest, the ability triggers, and you and everyone after you gets better loot.

I find this humorous. I also recently came back, and had someone say the could bless the chest in Tempest Spine. When they actually started an animation of some form, had to ask what it was. Thought it was an interesting new mechanic.

[taurean430]

I think a more amicable solution would be to simply state via lfm that the chests will be 'blessed' and such. Personally, I've found it to be a rather annoying and time consuming mechanic in certain quests. If I were aware before I joined an lfm for shroud that this was going on, I'd simply pick another group that moves faster.

The yelling chest blesser who wastes even more time in a speed run being indignant at high, profanity laden, volume is simply out of place. Not the 11 other people trying to get the raid done without standing around. I've seen numerous instances so far of people joining speed runs and freaking out at the part one, and soon to follow chests. In a speed run.

I look at it much the same as when I am leveling my TR's. If I am running quests fast, I state that in my lfm. If I join a slower run to interact with newer players than myself, I work within the boundaries of their speed and skill of play. It strikes me as inconsiderate for someone to join speed runs and expect everyone to come to a halt for this. Just as inconsiderate as me joining a quest and running at a normal pace for me far ahead of the rest of the group.

One of my guildies just recently was venting to us about getting yelled at for unknowingly opening a chest before it was 'blessed' First question I asked him was if it was in the lfm. It wasn't, so it was no foul. He would have waited out of courtesy anyway for the absolute zero chance of increased crafting mats in the shroud. But why should he, I, or anyone else in a speed run?

[Vyrn]

OP it doesn't matter how many 20s you have. Or how good you think you are. You got yelled at, because you were playing like an unskilled noob, who just couldn't wait the 10 seconds it took to benefit the party/raid.

I have a midlevel bard with this ability and could type an essay explaining how frustrating these abilities are when dealing with other players, but I won't. It took my guildies about a month to get used to them. I've never yelled though, it is just a computer game after all.

So wasting 3 feats isnt playing like an unskilled noob?

I have a cleric who hates this ability and could type an essay how frustrating these abilities are when dealing with other players, but I wont. It took my server about a few hours to get used to hating them. Ive never yelled though, it is just a computer game after all.

:D. In all seriousness, dont pug if you even have an ounce of doubt something can go wrong, because it will.

[Bargol]

One players vendor trash is another players Holy Burst/metal property/of Greater bane.

If you think your going to pull something like that out of most chests your sadly mistaken. There are only a few chests in the game that an item like that could come out of....rest gives vendor trash.

I think turbine only added this as a joke for the people who used to diplo chests (which of course didn't work).

[cdbd3rd]

I bless this thread.


Too late. It's already open.


*chuckled*

:)

[Gawdzilla]

Any time any toon other than potentially a bard tells me it can bless chests I puke in my mouth a little. There is a fvs in my guild that can and I have no idea what feats he possibly could justify giving up to bless chests but he is the first healer out of mana and dead every raid we run.

[Seph1roth5]

I have a 14 bard/6 fighter with the dragonmark and it is pretty annoying when someone deliberately opens chests because they don't want to wait. I don't start yelling or anything but after having told people I could bless, and usually having 2-3 more-excited people reminding everyone, someone still opens it, I'm more "or you could just open the chest really fast, that's another way to go."

It may not look like it's doing much, but it does help. I noticed my shroud loot always sells for ~40% more on my bard (or in a party with a blesser) than any other time. It's not going to make unique items drop or guarantee metalline of pure good or anything.

And supposedly it can push a quest that might not drop +2/+3 tomes on normal/hard into dropping them, I'm not 100% sure. The main point is it's usually only 1, MAYBE 2 people in the party that don't want the dragonmark used so much that they want to argue how much it sucks and they open chests asap. Maybe a few others don't think it's too useful, but don't mind waiting. Everyone else is usually alllll for it though.

It's even more ridiculous to rush it in the shroud when so many people have to rest, buffs need to be passed out, etc. It's not like you're in a timed 15 min quest or anything.

As for it being a waste of feats, well, yeah I'd love 66 more HP lol, but my bard does pretty well. I think he has ~440 hp at 20. So with greensteel and ship buffs I can break 500. The only time I really felt squishy was in epic chronoscope, but I think if I had remembered to pop some fire shield scrolls I would've died much less. Even then, people didn't mind because I had songs and could throw in healing.

Anyway, I think it makes you look pretty bad when 11 people are waiting for a chest to get zapped and you run up and open it, then let everyone know it was on purpose by telling everyone how much the dragonmark sucks and isn't worth it. Probably the same kind of jerk that doesn't want to spend an extra minute maybe throughout certain quest breaking stuff/killing enemies for ransack/conquest, in quests where it'll be a good chunk of xp.

[Tuney]

When I had the 3 marks, I was a bard. I played as a Healer/CC type but most of the time I was acting as a backup for eather because the group had to have a wizard/sorc and a Cleric/Favor soul. So it allowed me to slightly more relaxed in my primary build.

Most of the time the best way to bless chests is if you are able to, bless them durring a fight if they don't need you durring the whole segement of the blessing. Also , while it does have a short range , it does not require Line of Sight so you can bless that chest behind a wall or other obsticale. There will be times where you simply can not bless the chest because the quest it self won't let you (Offering of Blood Epic) or it is just that kind of chest. My personal favorite method is find a way to slow the group down from getting the chest so you CAN bless it for a bard there is only one way really and that is GREASE!

The only time someone with the dragonmark of finding can truly be upset is if the whole group/raid agreed befor the start of the quest to let you do it. My self , I let them open it after I tried once and I had an extreamly low fail rate so I never saw the 'fizzle' unless I unequiped my Spellsinger ring by accident hehe. Even in Speed shrouds , I took it as a badge of honor that I was able to bless 5 chests! (One in part 1 and 2, 2 in part 3 and both chests in part 5.) And I didn't slow the raid down because I made sure to do my puzzle(or at least get out if Couldn't solve it quickly and Knock allowed me to slip out easily) and run my water.

[theboatman]

If you think your going to pull something like that out of most chests your sadly mistaken. There are only a few chests in the game that an item like that could come out of....rest gives vendor trash.

I think turbine only added this as a joke for the people who used to diplo chests (which of course didn't work).

Well, the point is that the dragonmark gives chests the potential to drop nice items that may not otherwise. I'm not saying the odds are anywhere near good for an item who's prefix/suffix/metal property to align, let alone be on a useful weapon. But those weapons that do exist (Like a Vorpal Silver Kama of Righteousness my guildie bought the other day) do come from somewhere. From the feedback and my personal experience, I realize many people don't care to wait for the marks, yet I still often see people with loot gems going. Instead of arguing how 'bad' a feat chain it is, or about ettiquite that 'should or should not be followed', constructive ideas on how to fix the marks might get better results.

[TimoteoDeLani]

As someone who has a blesser (that is only used in groups I know well) I think the mechanics are bad. My suggestions would be:

1. There is a single chance to upgrade any chest per blesser. Trying over and over and over is no fun. I suppose I could enforce this myself, but the chance to get +2 tomes in the Vale wilderness is just too tempting ...

2. The upgrade attempt is made if someone with the GDM of Finding is the first to open the chest (GMDF becomes a passive feat). When they open it a message appears in party chat and an animation appears over the chest. That would make people feel good about blessers and let them go first. Something like "<name> has given you a +1 loot boost on this chest - maybe you should let them open the next one too".

3. It would require a chance to the chest loot mechanics, but make it so anyone opening the chest after a blesser opens gets the upgraded loot. Currently all the chest loot is rolled when the chest is opened - this change would require DDO remembering:

a. who was in the instance when the chest was first opened;
b. who has already looted (so it doesn't re-roll for them).

This would also allow multiple blessers to have a chance to upgrade the chest, but the one who failed wouldn't get upgraded loot.

My guild has spent a long time working on our blesser character - they need to fulfill multiple roles. They end up being a trapsmith, blesser, crowd control and reasonable DPS.

Rogue 8/Fighter 12, taken as R1/F6/R5/F6/R2.
Mechanic I
Kensei II (repeating light crossbow)
High dex (to hit things)
High Int (for skill points and extra damage as Mechanic)
High Cha (for chest upgrades)
Rapid reload, rapid shot, Improved precise shot, Improved critical (ranged), Greater weapon specialisation (ranged)
A range of repeaters - paralysing (incredible crowd control with imp. precise shot), banishing, smiting, disrupting, wounding of puncturing.

My highest-level blesser (our initial test case who was built wrongly - Mechanic II, just about to get Kensei I) does about 35HP damage per crit (17-20) before any additional bonuses, 3 shots per reload. Add seeker, inspire courage and damage boost and you're hitting about 70HP per crit. If you've got the target helpless (e.g. con damage) you're up to about 100HP per crit. That's decent ranged damage for someone who is intended to be a support character.

[taurean430]

I have a 14 bard/6 fighter with the dragonmark and it is pretty annoying when someone deliberately opens chests because they don't want to wait. I don't start yelling or anything but after having told people I could bless, and usually having 2-3 more-excited people reminding everyone, someone still opens it, I'm more "or you could just open the chest really fast, that's another way to go."

It may not look like it's doing much, but it does help. I noticed my shroud loot always sells for ~40% more on my bard (or in a party with a blesser) than any other time. It's not going to make unique items drop or guarantee metalline of pure good or anything.

And supposedly it can push a quest that might not drop +2/+3 tomes on normal/hard into dropping them, I'm not 100% sure. The main point is it's usually only 1, MAYBE 2 people in the party that don't want the dragonmark used so much that they want to argue how much it sucks and they open chests asap. Maybe a few others don't think it's too useful, but don't mind waiting. Everyone else is usually alllll for it though.

It's even more ridiculous to rush it in the shroud when so many people have to rest, buffs need to be passed out, etc. It's not like you're in a timed 15 min quest or anything.

As for it being a waste of feats, well, yeah I'd love 66 more HP lol, but my bard does pretty well. I think he has ~440 hp at 20. So with greensteel and ship buffs I can break 500. The only time I really felt squishy was in epic chronoscope, but I think if I had remembered to pop some fire shield scrolls I would've died much less. Even then, people didn't mind because I had songs and could throw in healing.

Anyway, I think it makes you look pretty bad when 11 people are waiting for a chest to get zapped and you run up and open it, then let everyone know it was on purpose by telling everyone how much the dragonmark sucks and isn't worth it. Probably the same kind of jerk that doesn't want to spend an extra minute maybe throughout certain quest breaking stuff/killing enemies for ransack/conquest, in quests where it'll be a good chunk of xp.

In a speed run of the shroud, which is stated in the lfm, resting typically takes place following part 3 then again in part 4 following the boss fight any run I've done to date. You also buff on the run. In a speed run, this ability is time consuming. Which is the polar opposite of the purpose people joined the run for.

My suggestion is to state in your lfm's that you bless chests. That way you have more players in your runs that agree with that playstyle. I haven't met a single person in this game who opens chests in the manner you describe. Nor have I seen people opening chests to spite someone with this ability. The fact remains however that this ability increases randomly generated vendor trash. Doesn't work on crafting mats, tomes, raid loot, special named items.

This ability imo doesn't belong in speed runs. All it does is create conflict.

[theboatman]

It would require a chance to the chest loot mechanics, but make it so anyone opening the chest after a blesser opens gets the upgraded loot. Currently all the chest loot is rolled when the chest is opened - this change would require DDO remembering:

a. who was in the instance when the chest was first opened;
b. who has already looted (so it doesn't re-roll for them).


But DDO already remembers if you have a penalty to the chest when you loot it, open or not. Only the initial potential of the chest (ie its level) is determined when opened, each players bonus (from gems) or penalty (from being ransacked/close to stripped) is applied when they loot. I would wager that you cannot mark an open chest to prevent some sort of abuse, but there has to be a better way than currently implemented.

[Kalari]

In a speed run of the shroud, which is stated in the lfm, resting typically takes place following part 3 then again in part 4 following the boss fight any run I've done to date. You also buff on the run. In a speed run, this ability is time consuming. Which is the polar opposite of the purpose people joined the run for.

My suggestion is to state in your lfm's that you bless chests. That way you have more players in your runs that agree with that playstyle. I haven't met a single person in this game who opens chests in the manner you describe. Nor have I seen people opening chests to spite someone with this ability. The fact remains however that this ability increases randomly generated vendor trash. Doesn't work on crafting mats, tomes, raid loot, special named items.

This ability imo doesn't belong in speed runs. All it does is create conflict.

Each time we had issues with a chest blesser it was either on a speed run or one where it was only stated after the fact (Not in LFM) that there was one in the party. And the way the people reacted to a chest opener made my young son look like an angel during one of his tantrums. You would think it wasn't a grown person behind the pixels the way they acted and its sad. And I am sorry I agree with the op to the extent that if a person has to get to the point of yelling about it that these feats are useless. Its not about taking from 11 others if they are all of like mind but many times they are not and if someone joins my lfm and tries to make the group bow to their loot whim they will find themselves without a group. Your fun does not always equal other peoples and its a two way street on rudeness.

Ive yet to see chest blessers coming with stories of being yelled at yet plenty of stories and seen for myself blessers go nuts over a chest opening even if it was done by accident so I base my bias on that.

[theboatman]

The fact remains however that this ability increases randomly generated vendor trash. Doesn't work on crafting mats, tomes, raid loot, special named items.

The Dragonmark does in fact work on tomes, as it can increase the level of a chest that would otherwise not contain a tome, in order to allow it's presence.

[Slap_Happy]

I bless this thread.

I allready read the thread before you had a chance to bless it

[Ystradmynach]

Who in the world could have ever seen this comming!

Oh wait. I did. lol http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?p=3287855#post3287855


And the term is LOOTHOOKER™. not chest blesser. rofl

The had me cracking up so much that I made a character on Khyber called Lootharlot (they won't allow the name Loothooker).

[BitkaCK2]

snip
My personal favorite method is find a way to slow the group down from getting the chest so you CAN bless it for a bard there is only one way really and that is GREASE!

Congratulations, you have won the thread! +1 for you.

bitkaCK2

[theboatman]

Each time we had issues with a chest blesser it was either on a speed run or one where it was only stated after the fact (Not in LFM) that there was one in the party. And the way the people reacted to a chest opener made my young son look like an angel during one of his tantrums. You would think it wasn't a grown person behind the pixels the way they acted and its sad. And I am sorry I agree with the op to the extent that if a person has to get to the point of yelling about it that these feats are useless. Its not about taking from 11 others if they are all of like mind but many times they are not and if someone joins my lfm and tries to make the group bow to their loot whim they will find themselves without a group. Your fun does not always equal other peoples and its a two way street on rudeness.

Ive yet to see chest blessers coming with stories of being yelled at yet plenty of stories and seen for myself blessers go nuts over a chest opening even if it was done by accident so I base my bias on that.

I can say that several times in raids/parties that I formed containing mark information in the lfm I was griefed by players that did so out of spite. It is very similar to those that join 'team player' groups that want to zerg through and will raise the dungeon alert as high as possible before leaving, because they didn't get their way.

But if you are not the player that has the star, you have to take the high road. Sure, offer your services, but don't complain if no one takes you up on your offer; you can always back out if it isn't too your liking. And you can always sneak in successes where you might, and be happy that you forced your loot bonus on those that didn't want it, without wasting any of their time. (Shroud in particular, if you notice the raid all flocking to the ingredients chest first, try to hit the red one. You can also dragonmark the Chests in part 5 through the barrier while the Lieutenants are still up!)

[Hendrik]

Evidence please.

Umm, the big bright sparkly shield that pops up on an opened chest evidence enough?

[Hendrik]

I have ony seen a "chest blesser" on two ocasions (once in shroud and once on vale runs).

Honestly they are wasted feats and only boost vendor trash. They don't work on raid chests or shroud materials....so why would other players care if they get a few copper more when vendoring?

So much mis-information and all based on TWO instances, wow!

1. It DOES work on Raid Chests.
2. It DOES work on Epic Chests.

However, it DOES NOT grant better chance at Named Loot. So, Mojoing a Epic/Raid Chest will not grant better chances at Raid loot or Seals/Shards, but it will up the chances for everything else.

For example, with Mojo, a HARD HoX will put your loot/chest level in range to loot +3 Chests. Other wise you would have to do Elite.

And since we now have deconstruction, that 'trash loot' is rather valuable.

There are only a handful of chests in game, totally, where the Mark will not work.

[Gkar]

Umm, the big bright sparkly shield that pops up on an opened chest evidence enough?

Someone else in this thread who said they have the mark said that they do get success after an initial open. So no, not enough without a SS.

[Tuney]

I've never gotten a 'success' on an open chest ever. And I've tried , I have always gotten the 'shield icon' which means OBJECTION!

[theboatman]

So much mis-information and all based on TWO instances, wow!


1. It DOES work on Raid Chests. It certainly does not work on warded raid chests like those found in VoN or DQ; the random loot chests can be marked.



However, it DOES NOT grant better chance at Named Loot. So, Mojoing a Epic/Raid Chest will not grant better chances at Raid loot or Seals/Shards, but it will up the chances for everything else. This is correct.


For example, with Mojo, a HARD HoX will put your loot/chest level in range to loot +3 Chests. Other wise you would have to do Elite.. This is incorrect. Perhaps you don't completely understand the mechanics, but +3 Tomes have a chance to drop on Hard without being Marked. They just have a higher chance, in theory, to drop in a hard or elite run if the chest if marked.

[theboatman]

Someone else in this thread who said they have the mark said that they do get success after an initial open. So no, not enough without a SS.

I'm curious as to which poster made this comment about success after the initial open?

[Jaid314]

i routinely waste substantially more time than it takes to buff a chest in my daily activities. odds are good that i spend more time per day sitting around trying to decide what i want to have for lunch than i would spend if i always ran with a person who can bless chests.

like i said, i don't agree that the person should have yelled. on the other hand, if people are deliberately going out of their way to make sure that person doesn't get to use their ability, well, those people are being jerks. period. it isn't going to kill you to wait a few seconds so that you can get better loot (which, even if you deconstruct, will tend to result in more essences). and while they probably shouldn't have yelled, well, if you start attacking a person, expect them to fight back sooner or later. don't start nothing, and there won't be nothing.

there is furthermore no need to come here on the forums and make a post about how you think these people are all annoying, and completely gimped and a waste of a party slot, and throw a fit about it to everyone else. assuming you actually had someone who did not contribute even a tiny bit to the quest, odds are good that running the chest with 5 people and that person would go faster than running with 6 people and doing it at a difficulty 1 higher. from the perspective of getting loot (and adjusting loot tables can definitely be a big deal for certain random drops), those feats aren't half bad. and getting several uses of knock per rest has it's upsides too.

if it was a speed run, fine. but quite frankly, no, the vast majority of shroud runs are not speed runs, or at least none of the ones i've seen listed lately made any claim to be. if you want a speed run, put it in the LFM. if you are in any other shroud run, you have no business assuming that everyone else in the raid doesn't want their +1 loot table. i mean, if you had a vote and 11 people all agreed they didn't want more loot, fine. i very much doubt that was done, though.

and whether you're yelled at or not, it still doesn't justify that you keep deciding to screw everyone else out of better loot. if i was to get the impression you were deliberately doing that in my groups, i'd kick you. not because it's a crippling flaw, but simply because i don't want to group with people who go around griefing others. if you don't care about loot, skip the chest. if you do care about the loot, then let it get buffed. if you claim to not care about the loot, and then loot the chest deliberately so that you don't have to wait, then you are obviously lying in regards to not caring about the loot, because if you didn't care about the loot you wouldn't be in such a rush to loot it.

[Xandrel]

Waste of time and feats

Loot it and move on

[mystafyi]

The feats are useless. vendor trash just get deconstructed now. If it effected named items... THEN i would care.

[Jaid314]

The feats are useless. vendor trash just get deconstructed now. If it effected named items... THEN i would care.

again, higher level loot has a better chance of higher level of ability, which means more essences.

[Seph1roth5]

Ah sorry I wasn't talking about speed runs, which I think are ridiculous anyway. But I definitely wouldn't join any speed/zerg run and ask people to wait for me to bless.

[Tuney]

I would just like to note , at one point in time. The Dragon marks did not work on warded and epic chests. But some change a while back , It might have been just graphical but I wasn't getting the 'shield' icon but the 'restoration' effect for success. But they might have changed it back to not working on Warded an epic chests.

[Hendrik]

It certainly does not work on warded raid chests like those found in VoN or DQ; the random loot chests can be marked.

This is correct.
This is incorrect. Perhaps you don't completely understand the mechanics, but +3 Tomes have a chance to drop on Hard without being Marked. They just have a higher chance, in theory, to drop in a hard or elite run if the chest if marked.

So, successful Mojo on those chests is just an illusion? Hallucination? Have you even used the Mark on them? You get successful animation on eDQ and eVoN chests and not on the small ones.


Lol, dude I have done so much work with loot, chests, and the like, I do know what I am talking about. I spent MONTHS tracking loot and documenting it. Who found the bug(s) with the loot tables and Ransack?

But hey, I do appreciate the laughs you have provided. Thank you.

[Kokanee]

Sadly it was mentioned in party chat before. But I was distracted and unfortunately opened the chest before the said "Blesser" could get to the chest.



like i said, i don't agree that the person should have yelled.

At least we agree on something. :cool:

I don't care if anyone wants to bless the chests. I personally don't care to wait a few seconds. Now it is the Blesser's job to manage the blessing. I have seen a few good Blessers around. A good Blesser should be able do it quickly and seamlessly. Like how a good rogue should do with traps.

Having said that. If anyone ask me if they should wast...(cough).. spend feats on this I will advice against it.
You can get much better loot by having better character and running more quests quickly and successfully even at harder difficulties. This same character would certainly be more useful in general. Take a Bard for example if you spend 3 Feats on this you would certainly cripple the already feat starved class. For a bard not even the 1st and 2nd Dragon Marks are useful.

I could see some usefulness on this if the blessing could change the faith on warded/epic chests then that would be a different story. But it is not! Period.

Oh Here is an idea:

Turbine should create a line of Enhancements for Blessers too:
Tier I Super Speed Blessing - You have a strong passion to improve you loot and have been given the use of a super speed to guide you to nearest unblessed chest.
Tier II Atomic Fly Blessing - You are now master in blessing arts, whenever theres an unblessed chest you can fly to them to get job done quickly.
Tier II Telekinetic Blessing - You are now master supreme in the art of Blessing chests, you can use this ability to Teleport all unblessed chests to you so you can Bless then conveniently fast.

If you like to spend Feats on blessing might as well go and blow some AP to improve your blessing abilities even further.

[Aries1040]

I personally would never take the feats and hardly open a chest before giant hold but even if I did the problem is even on a higher loot table you can still get trash that's not worth deconstructing if it was always better loot then the quest gave out then heck yeah but it's to random to waste the time with but feel free to open and loot any chests I leave behind :-p

[Gkar]

Yea. Ok.

Why not use the Mark yourself to find out.

Need a SS for that too?

:rolleyes:

I wouldn't waste 3 feats on it.

[Havok.cry]

Lol bards are not feat starved they sing, and then they pike;) Blessing gives em all something to do. Wasted on anything else tho, imho. Hagglebots everywhere can benefit from blessing chests lol. Also piking chesthookers should not be yelling at anyone for anything... read the piking guide.. you should be trying to go unnoticed:P

[WaltzInBlack]

Lol bards are not feat starved they sing, and then they pike;) Blessing gives em all something to do. Wasted on anything else tho, imho. Hagglebots everywhere can benefit from blessing chests lol. Also piking chesthookers should not be yelling at anyone for anything... read the piking guide.. you should be trying to go unnoticed:P

This :)

[BitkaCK2]

Wow seriously? 5 pages already? I'm having pvp forum flashbacks.

I declared thread winner on page 4 (http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=3827585&postcount=63)

If you have a hard-on to bless the chest before opening Grease it. Bless it from max range. If they open first you lose the game. You bless first you win the game. Simple. No harm, no foul, no hair off a halfling's backside. Unless, of course, losing the game will induce a profanity soaked, venom filled tirade of less than flattering diminutives. If it does I strongly suggest anger management courses.

Really children, *tsk* *tsk*,
bitkaCK2

[zwiebelring]

Last Weekend I was yelled by a Chest Blesser in a shroud Run!

Sadly it was mentioned in party chat before.
But I was distracted and unfortunately opened the chest before the said "Blesser" could get to the chest.

Yes, I know it can boost the loot die in +1 for everyone.
But why some people get so worked up about it?

Is it really worth the trouble?

I mean Seriously?

A great way to waste feats imo....

/rant off
This is not a waste fo feats in my opinion but it is a unnecessary timesink in a Shroud, the one quest everybody wants to finish as soon as possible. Chest Blessers should use it while soloing.

You run Shroud every 3 days as soon as you are flagged so nobody can tell me he/she has not enough money already, the chest blessers seem to upgrade darts and ammunition only in any way. I hate it as well.

The Mark of Finding is a good solo thing otherwise it generates loss of time.

You were distracted and didn't pay attention, the reaction was unjustified and stupid. I hope you reported the person. Nothing more annoying than a person who gets drygasms when looting +5 darts.....

[Miahoo]

I really cant understand people who jump on a chest, specially when told not to.

You see it in low levels when the chest is trapped, killing the opener and the others who gather him, and you can even see it in high levels when people get DCed and the inconsiderate guy open the chest (happened to me in Ritual Sacrifices, someone got DCed right after the end fight, and someone else opened the chest, althought we screamed not to open it).

In Cannith, when doing the shroud, we usually wait 10 seconds for people to come to the shrine, so we can be sure no one got DCed from the lag. In that time the blesser can do his job (althiought I've yet had the chance to run with one).

[NaturalHazard]

;)If you bless your chest does that make it bigger?

[lhidda]

Last Weekend I was yelled by a Chest Blesser in a shroud Run!

Sadly it was mentioned in party chat before.
But I was distracted and unfortunately opened the chest before the said "Blesser" could get to the chest.

Yes, I know it can boost the loot die in +1 for everyone.
But why some people get so worked up about it?

Is it really worth the trouble?

I mean Seriously?

A great way to waste feats imo....

/rant off
chest blessing makes a 20 mins shroud to a 40 mins shroud.
In fact u can run two shrouds getting more loot within same time. The loot which can be made +1 is mostly vendor/deconstruction trash. So after all I dont see a much reason to charm chests.

[NUDS]

I shadowhump chests, does that count?

[theboatman]

So, successful Mojo on those chests is just an illusion? Hallucination? Have you even used the Mark on them? You get successful animation on eDQ and eVoN chests and not on the small ones.


Lol, dude I have done so much work with loot, chests, and the like, I do know what I am talking about. I spent MONTHS tracking loot and documenting it. Who found the bug(s) with the loot tables and Ransack?

But hey, I do appreciate the laughs you have provided. Thank you.

Yes, as I stated earlier in the thread, I ran for a while with a spellsinger bard with the marks. If my information is old and outdated, that is one thing, but I havent seen a mark used since update 8.1 (crystal cove). But your stance on the issue does nothing to clean up this thread for those posters looking for real information; if my knowledge base is incomplete or outdated, correct me, but I really don't need the condecending attitude or the self-lauding about past deeds when something simpler will suffice.

For example: you slammed my post, yet failed to clarify to those following the thread that Tomes do in fact drop from Subterraine raids on Hard, with or without the dragonmark (my assertion). You may disagree with my position, but without support to your position all it does is detract from the information.

Just the same as all the posters that come here to add their two cents: 'not worth my time'.

Yes, I understand that the dragonmarks are not popular. I understand popularity in the game very well: I play a ac/hate tank; many people consider that a waste of a character slot as well. But playing this game/posting on these forums is a complete waste of time, so no one should play, by that logic.

Making a blanket 'those are bad' instead of 'I dont like those' indicates a superiority complex, one of the key issues with the in game community of this game right now. Which leads all the way back to the OP and the issues in his post. If you don't feel the marks are worth three feat slots on your character, you are permitted that opinion, but you are not permitted to reduce the enjoyment of others that feel differently.

'I don't see a reason to' is not the same as 'there is no reason to'; just the same as 'my time is valuable' is vastly different from 'my time is more valuable than yours'

[theboatman]

chest blessing makes a 20 mins shroud to a 40 mins shroud.
In fact u can run two shrouds getting more loot within same time. The loot which can be made +1 is mostly vendor/deconstruction trash. So after all I dont see a much reason to charm chests.

The problem with your theory is that Shroud has a raid lockout timer. So either you are not completing, losing out on large ingredients, or you have multiple characters. Some players have time for neither, and prefer one 25 minute shroud with +1 loot for their character; they very much see a reason to charm chests.

[Gkar]

The problem with your theory is that Shroud has a raid lockout timer. So either you are not completing, losing out on large ingredients, or you have multiple characters. Some players have time for neither, and prefer one 25 minute shroud with +1 loot for their character; they very much see a reason to charm chests.

Those players don't pay my sub so I see no reason why a poor mechanic choice by Turbine should slow me down.

[ceiswyn]

Those players don't pay my sub so I see no reason why a poor mechanic choice by Turbine should slow me down.

And you don't pay those players' subs, so they probably see no reason why a poor mechanic choice by Turbine should leave them out of pocket.

Can't you just compromise on this? I mean, all the chests in the Shroud come in pairs, so for example the party could agree to loot the left-hand chest while the blesser deals with the right-hand one. Those who want +1 loot may not get as much blessing as they like, the party may get slowed down a little, but ultimately nobody has to give up anything entirely, whether that be time or loot.

Or you could just go around selfishly imposing your choice on the rest of the raid group. Nobody can stop you. But if that's the attitude you're going to take to other people's wishes, I'd really rather you played solo.

[Gennesuke]

Those players don't pay my sub so I see no reason why a poor mechanic choice by Turbine should slow me down.

Rofl man, no offence take it easy.

To all folks blaming blessing, I am sorry for your bad experience about it. I have a blesser, its now 16 cleric /2 monk. I do shroud and my bless show with GH takes max. 3 minutes (bards can do it even faster, for them there is nearly no fail factor). I am able to bless 4x per rest and as bonus I have 6xknock. And I do not feel I wasted 3 feat slots at all. This multiclass combo has nice feat space.

After bless I have seen astral diamonds at devil assault and tomes at vale zone.

[Miahoo]

;)If you bless your chest does that make it bigger?

Hmmmm... do u wanna check it out? ;)

[Starp]

Does it matter what the last mechanic on the chest was before opening?

For example, at the end of the Delera's chain, I think its called "Thrall of the Necromancer", there are two locked chests and one unlocked chest. To bless the locked chests correctly, do you have to bless them and then unlock them; or, must you unlock them and then bless them? Or does it matter at all, that is, both methods are acceptable?

Does anyone know?

[Eistander]

I almost think that the set of dragonmarks were put in as a last-minute thing, but also as a joke (I mean, way back when it was nearly sacrilege for someone to open the chest before the person with the highest diplomacy would use said skill).

Not getting into it very far, but to summarize an already short statement, I think it started as an inside joke and made its way into the game. Not for me, but that's just me.

[Razcar]

There's only one proper way to "bless" chests, and that is with DDoor. You have to time it exactly right though, just when people are running up to the chest to click it, for maximum effect.

On a little more serious note, I wouldn't be so much concerned about the extra time you have to wait at the chest so people can pull +4 Ghost Touch shields instead of +3. I'm more troubled having someone in my raid group that has wasted three important feats on something meaningless, especially if it is harder content and/or they have an important role. I would react the same if they'd bragged about having taken e.g. Snake Blooded, Power Critical and Athletic.

[Starp]

There's only one proper way to "bless" chests, and that is with DDoor. You have to time it exactly right though, just when people are running up to the chest to click it, for maximum effect.

LOL. Go, go, helpful Arcane caster! :)

[RumbIe]

While I feel bad that feats have been wasted, and I mean wasted, I sometimes pop open a chest on a "blessed" group, but not on purpose. Sometimes you run a quest so much that you just auto pilot the run. Some times I've joined a run late, entered and saw that they just opened a chest, but not before I came in so I can still loot but if it's not one that has named loot and is not directly on my way I don't even waste my time to go loot it. Heck, on some of my characters I've gotten blown off the top on a TS run and not bothered running back up for the two chests which of course is foolish because you can get some good items for that level, but if I'm on a mad exp dash it's not worth my time.

The way I look at it is that it's vendor trash and at this stage I don't care about a +1 to it. If someone says they have the DM I feel bad for them in such poor decision making skills :) and I try and remember. For some quests it's easier to remember than others. Like if there's a shrine next to a chest I always shrine first before looting. Blesser or not. Just instinct now. So they should have ample time.

They would make this DM more useful and respected if there was a slight chance that on a successful bless there was a chance for increase in named loot dropping. Even if it was a small chance then I think people would get some value out of it and people would be more inclined to wait.

[cptcruch]

Sadly I don't feel like reading 5 pages of this stuff but did read the 1st page.......isn't this useless in raids so since you were in a shroud does it really matter?

[cdemeritt]

Why, I believe so many don't wait....

Echos many others.....

We just had a +2 loot weekend, and with the DDO Store "Deals" I had a loot gem going, giving a +3 to my loot....


And still had lousy pulls in shroud chests including several min lvl 13 items....

And pulled great items such as holy/silver on a no bonus run....

a +1 to loot just isn't that special, to most capped toons.

[Vanquishedfo]

The issue isnt about the loot from what I see. Its about common civility to each other, and how sorely lacking it is on DDO, which imo is one of the worse MMO communities Ive had the displeasure to be a part of.

To those who Zerg in any fashion and think its thier right because its all about gain per time, play solo already. You are only being less then what you could be every time you ignore those you play with for the sake of your own amusement. If you want to ignore folks dont be on a team with them its that easy. SOLO everything and you can play as fast as you want and ignore the parts of a dungeon you loathe, and grab that loot you hate so much and be on your way.

The worst thing about DDO is how the vocal minority of zergers pushes thier speed is king attitude on the whole and kills any real chance of DDO ever being more then a niche in the MMO market.

[Thaxlsillyia]

Last Weekend I was yelled by a Chest Blesser in a shroud Run!

Sadly it was mentioned in party chat before.
But I was distracted and unfortunately opened the chest before the said "Blesser" could get to the chest.

Yes, I know it can boost the loot die in +1 for everyone.
But why some people get so worked up about it?

Is it really worth the trouble?

I mean Seriously?

A great way to waste feats imo....

/rant off

what is worse are ppl who enter a raid just for the sole purpose of chest mojoing. they throw a few buffs at the start and do nothing till then end. thanks for the 10 extra essences i guess :)

[Cyr]

Jeez, it's not about the wait. It is about having someone in your party with 3 junk feats so they can pull +5 vendor trash instead of +4.

[sparty55]

Last Weekend I was yelled by a Chest Blesser in a shroud Run!

Sadly it was mentioned in party chat before.
But I was distracted and unfortunately opened the chest before the said "Blesser" could get to the chest.

Yes, I know it can boost the loot die in +1 for everyone.
But why some people get so worked up about it?

Is it really worth the trouble?

I mean Seriously?

A great way to waste feats imo....


/rant off

Agreed. For some reason I have seen this ridiculous phenomenon when running the shroud over the last few months. That's over a minute of my life I cannot get back when they mojo every bleeping chest in that raid.... I also got yelled at and called names for forgetting and opening the chest prior. Well excuuuuuse meeeeee master noob.....

[theboatman]

Jeez, it's not about the wait. It is about having someone in your party with 3 junk feats so they can pull +5 vendor trash instead of +4.

Yep, I hate those dps that use junk weapons like Dwarven Axes or Rapiers or Scimitars instead of Khopeshes. Or those dps that bring junk MinII weapons into a normal raid like a shroud run, instead of LitII which are mathematically superior. While we are at it, Defender builds are junk, we should scrap them too. Just make the casters drink more pots keeping the high hp beef up, we can always farm more plat to buy them. And don't get me started on rogues, and their wasting skill points on things like search or disable, when a perfectly good wizard can splash 2 levels to get evasion and all the traps as well...

Your quote still comes down to a 'my time is more valuable than yours' attitude. I'm sure your time is valuable; everyones is. But if you don't have time to play the game, well, don't play the game...

[danotmano1998]

Ok, I had to ask and I didn't see this in the looong thread..

What is a chest blesser?
I've often prayed over a particular chest and crossed my fingers for good luck, but never actually blessed one.

[Cyr]

Your quote still comes down to a 'my time is more valuable than yours' attitude. I'm sure your time is valuable; everyones is. But if you don't have time to play the game, well, don't play the game...

If it was all about the time then I probably would not have started off my quote with "Jeez, it's not about the wait."

[Darkrok]

The time it takes for the blesser to get to the chest, bless it, open it, and tell us we're allowed to get on with the raid (multiplied by all the chests in the quest) is worth more to me than the loot bonus. If you're going to do this put it in the LFM so I can skip your raid. I don't play DDO to watch half orcs sit on their knees while I twiddle my thumbs.

I had a group that was listed as a zerg in the LFM where the guy wanted us to do that (in Tears of D). Not only did he want to do it (and whine and scream over voice every time a chest was looted without his blessing) but he didn't zerg as the LFM was listed either. Took him about 30 seconds to a minute to catch up to every chest.

It's a +1 loot bonus. If you're there and you can hit it, great. If not, it's no big deal.

[Darkrok]

The issue isnt about the loot from what I see. Its about common civility to each other, and how sorely lacking it is on DDO, which imo is one of the worse MMO communities Ive had the displeasure to be a part of.

To those who Zerg in any fashion and think its thier right because its all about gain per time, play solo already. You are only being less then what you could be every time you ignore those you play with for the sake of your own amusement. If you want to ignore folks dont be on a team with them its that easy. SOLO everything and you can play as fast as you want and ignore the parts of a dungeon you loathe, and grab that loot you hate so much and be on your way.

The worst thing about DDO is how the vocal minority of zergers pushes thier speed is king attitude on the whole and kills any real chance of DDO ever being more then a niche in the MMO market.

I agree with you partially. If a raid is listed as 'no zerg'ing, blessing chests, taking our time' then to go against that is rude.

If a quest is listed as a zerg then don't whine when people open the chests before you bless them. To whine in that situation is also rude.

People should be allowed to play the way they want to play. The group leader should set the expectations for the run in the LFM and the people that join the group should abide by that. You're right - it's just common courtesy either way.

[Tuney]

Hmm... I'm guessing that most of the people who made builds using the 3 finding feats planned on running them in non pugs where it was a non issue but when they had/felt like Puging complained reguardless. There is a chance they didn't mention it befor hand eather.

You'll run into a few who mention it befor hand and you can agree to it or if they have the means try to slow you do as a game (Also agreed on , When I do my grease I warn them befor hand that i'll try to slow them down! And I have a staff of arcane power so I drop grease + globe!). There are some who are basicly haggle bots who also picked up the 3 feats to ... well make even more cash. That build really would bring very little to the group as that is 5 used feats of 8... and the last 3 are probbly extend , Empower spell and toughness. It could play as a healer/bard , some CC though and lowish DPS depending on weapons.

[Battlehawke]

It's kind of like picking a cleric as your favorite class, and spending your "fun time" chasing idiots who refuse to wait for buffs, and they stay just a step to far ahead of you to get a heal... and then give you rage/a hard time for "letting" them die. Even after you spend tons of your own resources buying, heal, mass cure, and rez scrolls as well as well as mana pots.


Someone decides that ultimately they want to contribute something more to the group and build a "loot buffer" knowing that they will be sacrificing something on their toon, mostly it is the "fun" that they are sacrificing.


...and you want to degrade them.... because they asked you to wait for the one thing that they built their toon for...

The most important thing that I have learned with my three 19+ healers... Is that you can't heal stupidity....


Ps. I've been running IQ quests on Elite ALL weekend with a friend that is a "loot buffet" & everything has been worth keeping or worth 20k....

[theboatman]

Actually, a spellsinger bard, with high charisma, 40 for example. Toughness, Emp. Heal, Extend, Maximize, Heighten, Spell Focus: Enchant, Greater Focus: Enchant, Spell Penetration are the feats I listed earlier. I can drop toughness and still have more than 400hp. I can drop Maximize and still heal/cc epics fine. I can drop Spell Penetration and still Otto's Irresistable the Drow that have high SR. I can drop Extend and just cast rage/haste/displace more often.

A Fighter has even more feat slots that can fit the three in, just not the charisma to pull it off as often.

And to echo the sentiment of some of the posters, joining a zerg lfm and getting upset when they wont let you use your marks is just as bad, if not worse. You can offer your services, and deal with it (or find/start another group, if its a big enough issue) if the party says 'no thanks'.

But making blanket statements about how how bad these feats are and therefore how gimped a build that utilizes them basically says 'I don't respect you as a player/gamer/human enough to let you make your own decisions about your playstyle'

[porq]

Just last night I found myself in a pug shroud with a chest blesser monk, of all classes. The guy just didn't have enough of whatever boosts the success rate, because he was using the shrine to get uses back for another round of failed attempts.
People in that pug had enough of that by part 2 though, a lot of 'oops auto-pilot opened the chest'. Group was a whole mess of fail though, the bad healers, in on hard, a disconnect, two deaths in part 1, buffing to high heaven before each part, and a wipe at part 4...ugh. Chest blesser has always seemed like a giant red flag for a bad group to me. Waste of feats, waste of time.

[Jaid314]

I agree with you partially. If a raid is listed as 'no zerg'ing, blessing chests, taking our time' then to go against that is rude.

If a quest is listed as a zerg then don't whine when people open the chests before you bless them. To whine in that situation is also rude.

People should be allowed to play the way they want to play. The group leader should set the expectations for the run in the LFM and the people that join the group should abide by that. You're right - it's just common courtesy either way.

so... if a quest is not marked as either, is it acceptable or not acceptable to deliberately open the chests specifically so that you can guarantee someone doesn't get to use their ability?

seriously, if you can't stand waiting 20 seconds in a shroud run when you're probably already waiting 20 seconds anyways (just on waiting for people to finish shrining and buffing), then you need to start your own runs and state that it's a speed run, or join a speed run. because the only shroud runs i've ever been on where waiting for the chests to be blessed would have actually slowed things down were speed runs (which, incidentally, were probably also some of the least fun runs i've been in as well, since everyone was so obsessed with running as fast as they can through the raid)

if it's a speed run, then fine, no time should be wasted on blessing the chest. in any other situation, you're already sitting there for that long. waiting by the chests for buffs and chest blessing instead of waiting by the portal is not going to kill you.

[Gkar]

Ps. I've been running IQ quests on Elite ALL weekend with a friend that is a "loot buffet" & everything has been worth keeping or worth 20k....

You know it was already a +2 loot weekend and normally IQ chests turn out 16K+ stuff right?

And isn't the chest max 23? So 19 if IQ +2 for elite +2 for loot weekend..23. Which meant your friend's bonus did nothing. You were experiencing the loot weekend on already rich level chests.

[taurean430]

You know it was already a +2 loot weekend and normally IQ chests turn out 16K+ stuff right?

And isn't the chest max 23? So 19 if IQ +2 for elite +2 for loot weekend..23. Which meant your friend's bonus did nothing. You were experiencing the loot weekend on already rich level chests.

Agreed.

[Jahmin]

And isn't the chest max 23?
Right

So 19 if IQ +2 for elite +2 for loot weekend..23. Which meant your friend's bonus did nothing. You were experiencing the loot weekend on already rich level chests.
Wrong

[Darkrok]

so... if a quest is not marked as either, is it acceptable or not acceptable to deliberately open the chests specifically so that you can guarantee someone doesn't get to use their ability?

Specifically so they can't use their ability? Unacceptable. Simply because they haven't gotten there yet? Completely acceptable. The quest was not marked as either one so people play at their own pace and not fight with each other. This means if I'm half a minute ahead of what you're doing then I'm going to loot and move on. I'll go out of my way to let you use the ability in the case it wasn't marked. I might shrine even if I didn't need it. I won't stare at the chest if you're not even there yet. If you're there and working on the chest then I'll wait. If you're not there...well, get there next time.


if it's a speed run, then fine, no time should be wasted on blessing the chest. in any other situation, you're already sitting there for that long. waiting by the chests for buffs and chest blessing instead of waiting by the portal is not going to kill you.

No, it won't kill me to wait. It won't kill you not to buff the chest. It's not a big deal either way so if the group didn't specify which way to go then whatever happens happens. Neither side should act like a jerk about it but it's also not important enough to have one person wait on it nor is it important enough to have one person interrupt the other while they're doing it.

You mention earlier that it would be rude to deliberately guarantee someone doesn't get to use their ability. I have toons built to run through quests quickly and contribute to fast completions. By making me wait for you to buff the chests you're guaranteeing that I don't get to use my ability to run through the quest quickly and contribute to a fast completion. I would posit that a fast completion is most likely worth more in plat value than the +1 loot since vendor trash is rarely worth anything but completions = larges in the Shroud and rare loot in other quests which could be worth far more than the +1 loot returned. So forcing other people to wait for you is the same as people insisting on popping the chests before you get there. That's why group leaders should always post zerg/speed run or no zerg in their LFM's - it avoids a no-win situation where one party will always be foisting their play style on unwilling participants.

[Kalari]

This whole issue reminds me of Shr Plz back in the day, many could not understand why I was so dead against such a convenient feature till I explained how some people took things to the extremes cussing you out if you didnt share chains that couldn't be shared. Not even typing hello but that phrase and then piking. I went by my personal experiences with the phenomena.

Well the same thing goes for this mind you It is my personal opinion that its not worth the feats nor is it fun to run with builds who think its cool to only function in one role (mainly doing nothing till this feature comes up) I equate them to rogues who only get traps and do not try to fight. This is my right my mind frame and while I do not impose it on others who do not think that way since I rarely pug I do not see my mind set changing on this. The few times my guild allowed ourselves to open up to pugging we came across very temperamental chest blesssers who have soured the experience. Being yelled at over such things as loot is ridiculous and does not help the cause of those who choose these feats. Ediqutte works both ways though and if you join a group where its announced it would be completely rude to open chests just because. I don't join groups I dont mesh with its just not a fun way to enjoy ddo. But if I do put up an lfm which is rare I don't expect to change the way I enjoy the game just because someone built a certain way. If that makes people not want to join my groups thats fine ddo is a big game.

[BoBo2020]

Yes, I know it can boost the loot die in +1 for everyone.
But why some people get so worked up about it?

Is it really worth the trouble?

I mean Seriously?

A great way to waste feats imo....

/rant off

If the party talked about it before the chest was opened, then you were in the wrong.
Is it a big deal? - probably not but...

Last weekend was already a +2 loot weekend. With a store loot gem AND a chest blesser in the party, you would be hitting treasure table 18 on a normal Shroud and treasure table 20 on Elite. On some of the higher level quests (Inspired, Reaver's, Amrath) you could hit the mythical "level 23" chest and the odds of pulling some nice items, tomes, etc. would be significantly better.

If you feel like all non-named loot is junk and chest blessing wastes your time, then why are you opening the chest in the first place.

If you don't want to wait for a blesser, don't loot the chest at all.

Skip it.

You clearly don't need it or care about it so why complain?

If you don't care, don't loot. If it matters at all, wait for the blessing.

[Zaodon]

Whenever I see an LFM which says "have horc chest booster", I mentally translate that into "this group will be filled with drama", and join some other LFM.

:D

[Jaid314]

Specifically so they can't use their ability? Unacceptable. Simply because they haven't gotten there yet? Completely acceptable. The quest was not marked as either one so people play at their own pace and not fight with each other. This means if I'm half a minute ahead of what you're doing then I'm going to loot and move on. I'll go out of my way to let you use the ability in the case it wasn't marked. I might shrine even if I didn't need it. I won't stare at the chest if you're not even there yet. If you're there and working on the chest then I'll wait. If you're not there...well, get there next time.

in a shroud, this will pretty much never be an issue (with the possible exception of at the end of part 4 where the chest blesser may be in time-out and many people could be leaving). there is no point in the shroud where someone would be far behind. sure, don't wait forever for them to show up. but unless you've been using a completely different strategy to everyone else in the group, in most quests (barring a few where you split up), you should be close together. if you're zerging and not killing anything, racking up dungeon alert, and leaving everyone else to deal with the mess you left behind, then maybe you'll get to the chest far ahead of everyone else... but only because you basically screwed everyone else over in the first place.


No, it won't kill me to wait. It won't kill you not to buff the chest. It's not a big deal either way so if the group didn't specify which way to go then whatever happens happens. Neither side should act like a jerk about it but it's also not important enough to have one person wait on it nor is it important enough to have one person interrupt the other while they're doing it.

You mention earlier that it would be rude to deliberately guarantee someone doesn't get to use their ability. I have toons built to run through quests quickly and contribute to fast completions. By making me wait for you to buff the chests you're guaranteeing that I don't get to use my ability to run through the quest quickly and contribute to a fast completion. I would posit that a fast completion is most likely worth more in plat value than the +1 loot since vendor trash is rarely worth anything but completions = larges in the Shroud and rare loot in other quests which could be worth far more than the +1 loot returned. So forcing other people to wait for you is the same as people insisting on popping the chests before you get there. That's why group leaders should always post zerg/speed run or no zerg in their LFM's - it avoids a no-win situation where one party will always be foisting their play style on unwilling participants.
on the contrary, your ability to finish the raid is still perfectly useful. unless it in some way is dependent on you not stopping for anything, it still contributes to a raid. since i am unaware of any DPS boosts that cease to function if you sit still for more than a few seconds and cannot be started again easily later, this shouldn't be a valid point.

a very, very few people focus on speed and efficiency in shroud as far as i can tell. these people set up speed runs. the rest are concerned with completing, as far as i can tell, or at least should be (that is, if they want to do a shroud run at full speed ahead, not stopping for anything, they should do so by setting up a shroud speed run, where it is expected. unless you plan on personally soloing everything, it will do you no good to join a regular shroud run....)

[DougGlyndwyr]

I have run once with a blesser. Nowhere in the LFM or party chat or vox did he mentioned this. At the first chest, a kid opened the chest, as everyone was planning to do anyway. He starts his animation, chest pops. Blesser plum goes off.

Entire party recalls, drops blesser, reups someone else. Good time is had by all.

I would run again, but for crissake, say something beforehand or don't be suprised when someone pops a chest. If you don't say anything, IT'S YOUR DAMNED FAULT, 'KAY?

[Kalari]

in a shroud, this will pretty much never be an issue (with the possible exception of at the end of part 4 where the chest blesser may be in time-out and many people could be leaving). there is no point in the shroud where someone would be far behind. sure, don't wait forever for them to show up. but unless you've been using a completely different strategy to everyone else in the group, in most quests (barring a few where you split up), you should be close together. if you're zerging and not killing anything, racking up dungeon alert, and leaving everyone else to deal with the mess you left behind, then maybe you'll get to the chest far ahead of everyone else... but only because you basically screwed everyone else over in the first place.


on the contrary, your ability to finish the raid is still perfectly useful. unless it in some way is dependent on you not stopping for anything, it still contributes to a raid. since i am unaware of any DPS boosts that cease to function if you sit still for more than a few seconds and cannot be started again easily later, this shouldn't be a valid point.

a very, very few people focus on speed and efficiency in shroud as far as i can tell. these people set up speed runs. the rest are concerned with completing, as far as i can tell, or at least should be (that is, if they want to do a shroud run at full speed ahead, not stopping for anything, they should do so by setting up a shroud speed run, where it is expected. unless you plan on personally soloing everything, it will do you no good to join a regular shroud run....)

Considering the shroud has been around 3 years now and many of us have run it I dont think you understand regular shroud runs. NOw for new players a regular shroud wouldnt and shouldnt be run for speed. But when your racking up 60+ completions on over 15 characters (guilty of this since ive been here for years) and the shroud is still one of the few raids I like yes there is more common to run them fast due to knowledge of how to do said raid and the fact that some of us get more then one shroud done in a sitting. IN fact on fridays my guild tends to do a ton of them due to us having many alts so getting threw them quick means more chances to get our characters threw them.

I don't make such assumptions about everyone playing but your statments that regular shroud players dont go for speed is a bit extreme in my opinion. After a few years running it and a couple alts you to may find yourself running it quicker. Just saying.

[Jaid314]

Considering the shroud has been around 3 years now and many of us have run it I dont think you understand regular shroud runs. NOw for new players a regular shroud wouldnt and shouldnt be run for speed. But when your racking up 60+ completions on over 15 characters (guilty of this since ive been here for years) and the shroud is still one of the few raids I like yes there is more common to run them fast due to knowledge of how to do said raid and the fact that some of us get more then one shroud done in a sitting. IN fact on fridays my guild tends to do a ton of them due to us having many alts so getting threw them quick means more chances to get our characters threw them.

I don't make such assumptions about everyone playing but your statments that regular shroud players dont go for speed is a bit extreme in my opinion. After a few years running it and a couple alts you to may find yourself running it quicker. Just saying.

prove it. show me the shroud fast runs. show me anything that demonstrates the majority of players are trying to complete in the absolute shortest amount of time possible.

anecdotal, i suppose, but i don't even see people advertising those "fast/no buffs" shroud runs anymore. they were basically a fad that lasted a little while, then went away as far as i can tell.

now, perhaps it's just that the people angling for speed runs no longer PuG. but then, if you're having problems with yelling at each other and treating each other like garbage in guild runs or in runs of mostly friends... well, you've got bigger problems i suppose.

maybe it's just a sarlona thing, but while nobody wants every shroud run to take 78 minutes like the last one i did (which was an agonizingly painfully slow run and i can only say that i'm glad i didn't have an SP bar for that one), there is at most maybe 1-2 people who run ahead of everyone else in some sort of attempt to magically make it complete faster. if the majority of people were wanting the fastest shroud run possible, i imagine that if you aren't rushing as fast as you can, half the group should be in the next part by the time you get there.

there is of course some small chance that i have just coincidentally happened to completely avoid a ton of speed runs and that i've just so happened to be in all the runs that weren't specifically going for speed, but it seems really improbable. i've probably got over 60 shroud runs between all my characters, actually, and while i don't want 5 minutes of explaining and buffing between each part, i'm still not to the point where i can't stand waiting 10 seconds.

on a side note, if you really have been around 2+ years, i suspect you actually have a lot more than 60 shroud runs, btw, unless you wait a lot longer between runs than is needed. even on one character, assuming it took you 60 days to reach the shroud, and you ran on average twice a week (as opposed to once every 3 days), that would be something like ~190+ shroud runs on a single character... now, i'm not at that point. i've played for about a year, and definitely haven't religiously run shroud twice a week combined between all of my characters over that time (never mind the option of taking D-Door at the end). i would suspect maybe a total of 80ish runs between all my characters (that 78 minute run, for example, was my first one ever on my capped monk apparently), with only one having ever made 20 completions in a single life.

but dude, if you get bored of shroud, stop running it. go farm sins or other amrath quests for your larges. go farm ToD and hope you get some power shards. or devil assault. heck, farm plat and *buy* your shroud ingredients (with the exception of shards of power, obviously) do something else. if you can't stand an extra couple of minutes per run in the shroud, stop working in your play time and go do something fun.

[Kominalito]

if a person has a dragonmark, yes, waiting benefits you, so why wouldnt you do it?

what you DONT wait for is people to actually cast bless and/or diplo. this is ridiculous.

[theboatman]

if a person has a dragonmark, yes, waiting benefits you, so why wouldnt you do it?

what you DONT wait for is people to actually cast bless and/or diplo. this is ridiculous.

It comes down to what people feel is worth their effort. Gianthold Tor is a perfect example, I'm sure anyone can anecdotally give a good reference from that quest: some people loot gold piles, others skip them. I've pulled some nice returning weapons from there (ie paralyzing, destruction, vorpal), but some people don't feel the time they spend is worth their effort.

I have no issue with the above; I take issue when players don't feel its worth their time or effort to behave with civility towards other players.

[fuzzy1guy]

Dangit. The term is loothooker™

I tend to avoid any group that has one listed. It just slows things down so much.

+trash is still trash.

[Kalari]

prove it. show me the shroud fast runs. show me anything that demonstrates the majority of players are trying to complete in the absolute shortest amount of time possible.

anecdotal, i suppose, but i don't even see people advertising those "fast/no buffs" shroud runs anymore. they were basically a fad that lasted a little while, then went away as far as i can tell.

now, perhaps it's just that the people angling for speed runs no longer PuG. but then, if you're having problems with yelling at each other and treating each other like garbage in guild runs or in runs of mostly friends... well, you've got bigger problems i suppose.

maybe it's just a sarlona thing, but while nobody wants every shroud run to take 78 minutes like the last one i did (which was an agonizingly painfully slow run and i can only say that i'm glad i didn't have an SP bar for that one), there is at most maybe 1-2 people who run ahead of everyone else in some sort of attempt to magically make it complete faster. if the majority of people were wanting the fastest shroud run possible, i imagine that if you aren't rushing as fast as you can, half the group should be in the next part by the time you get there.

there is of course some small chance that i have just coincidentally happened to completely avoid a ton of speed runs and that i've just so happened to be in all the runs that weren't specifically going for speed, but it seems really improbable. i've probably got over 60 shroud runs between all my characters, actually, and while i don't want 5 minutes of explaining and buffing between each part, i'm still not to the point where i can't stand waiting 10 seconds.

on a side note, if you really have been around 2+ years, i suspect you actually have a lot more than 60 shroud runs, btw, unless you wait a lot longer between runs than is needed. even on one character, assuming it took you 60 days to reach the shroud, and you ran on average twice a week (as opposed to once every 3 days), that would be something like ~190+ shroud runs on a single character... now, i'm not at that point. i've played for about a year, and definitely haven't religiously run shroud twice a week combined between all of my characters over that time (never mind the option of taking D-Door at the end). i would suspect maybe a total of 80ish runs between all my characters (that 78 minute run, for example, was my first one ever on my capped monk apparently), with only one having ever made 20 completions in a single life.

but dude, if you get bored of shroud, stop running it. go farm sins or other amrath quests for your larges. go farm ToD and hope you get some power shards. or devil assault. heck, farm plat and *buy* your shroud ingredients (with the exception of shards of power, obviously) do something else. if you can't stand an extra couple of minutes per run in the shroud, stop working in your play time and go do something fun.

You would be wrong in my case I am not the average player though Ive been here since 07 didnt start shrouding heavily till about 2 years ago exactly when I joined my permanent guild on Sarlona. On top of that I have currently running 21 alts with 2 Tr's out of the 21 15 alts are shroud ready and able to raid about 2 times a week with my allotment of play time and out of the 15 only 5 have over 60+ runs.

Its not about being bored its about maximizing the time I get due to real life being more important I squeeze a lot of my raiding into 2 nights a week as do my guild which is why we are such a good mesh. I also see many other guilds on my server who do speed runs whether its because they are bored I cannot say but after a few years you do tend to run threw things quicker when you can if thats what your into. So please stop making such broad things without knowing and maybe 3 years from now we will see how you run raids. I go from the perspective of things Ive handled and personally seen Ive never said everyone when I put my perspective but I do use examples of people around me and that I have run with and I would say the majority of people Ive shrouded with in guild and out prefer to go fast so we can get more done in our time frames.

[ceiswyn]

on a side note, if you really have been around 2+ years, i suspect you actually have a lot more than 60 shroud runs

Why on earth would you think that?

I've been around since VoN was the top-level raid, and I have about 60 Shroud runs. Total. That's because for most of that time I was a casual once-a-week player.

Don't forget that not everybody plays obsessively all the time!

[Jaid314]

so, what i'm hearing, is that your guild is really heavily focused on speeding through as fast as possible, every second counts, and so are the people your guild likes to bring along.

unless your guild happens to consist of "most of the people in the game", it isn't strong evidence of how it is for most of the people in the game.

[Bargol]

Jeez, it's not about the wait. It is about having someone in your party with 3 junk feats so they can pull +5 vendor trash instead of +4.

^^^^^ THIS ^^^^^

For some its about the speed, but for many it is about having a one hit wonder in the party with 3 junk feats period.

What you give up is not worth +5 vendor trash as opposed to +4 vendor trash. If they made the feats passive so just having the person in quest/ in party would effect the loot fine, but for many of us its more about the person that died 10 times did so because they didn't have room for toughness on their 12 starting con bard because they needed to max charisma to effect their lootz.

There are few builds that can waste 3 feats and still be effective.

[NaturalHazard]

lol rethought it, and yeah can be annoying in quests with multiple chests. I wish they could speed the animation up or change how it works.

[moops]

Group was a whole mess of fail though, the bad healers, in on hard, a disconnect, two deaths in part 1, buffing to high heaven before each part, and a wipe at part 4...ugh. Chest blesser has always seemed like a giant red flag for a bad group to me. Waste of feats, waste of time.

Yep Red Flag for me as well. I joined a Reaver that advertised it in the LFM, and 7 non piking people died including the cleric who wasted feats on it. I won't join them now.

I run zerg self buff shrouds where most people don't shrine till after part 4--Last week someone wanted to buff the chests and got mad because we wouldn't let him--it was well advertised in the LFM that it was zerg.

In concept, I think its cool for roleplaying--in practice I get the same garbage, only more gems and Darts and Scrolls.

I got a bank full of +3 and +4 tomes that tell me I don't need a loothooker.

[Jahmin]

I got a bank full of +3 and +4 tomes that tell me I don't need a loothooker.

As those are unaffected by the gDM:Finding, your analysis is flawed to say the least :rolleyes:

[SardaofChaos]

As those are unaffected by the gDM:Finding, your analysis is flawed to say the least :rolleyes:

As everyone who said they're not affected are also heavily against the line of feats in the first place, while everyone who supports it even a little has either avoided the topic of tomes or mentioned that it does affect them...

[theboatman]

As everyone who said they're not affected are also heavily against the line of feats in the first place, while everyone who supports it even a little has either avoided the topic of tomes or mentioned that it does affect them...

It's still not a complete comparison, as the majority of +3/+4 tomes are not obtained in chests as loot drop, but from 20th raid completions...perhaps we would see more if the clunky mechanic of the finding mark was somehow streamlined...

[Xandrel]

^^^^^ THIS ^^^^^

For some its about the speed, but for many it is about having a one hit wonder in the party with 3 junk feats period.

What you give up is not worth +5 vendor trash as opposed to +4 vendor trash. If they made the feats passive so just having the person in quest/ in party would effect the loot fine, but for many of us its more about the person that died 10 times did so because they didn't have room for toughness on their 12 starting con bard because they needed to max charisma to effect their lootz.

There are few builds that can waste 3 feats and still be effective.

Very well said....

[theboatman]

Very well said....

Yep, its about a valid a comparison as those who want a max dps build, but can affort to 'waste' build points on con...

Again, just because you consider feats less than ideal, does not give you the right to impose your beliefs upon another player. There are several builds that are completely functional with room for the feats, some have even been listed, but this forum seems to have an issue to turning a blind eye to anything that is less than popular.

[taurean430]

Yep, its about a valid a comparison as those who want a max dps build, but can affort to 'waste' build points on con...

Again, just because you consider feats less than ideal, does not give you the right to impose your beliefs upon another player. There are several builds that are completely functional with room for the feats, some have even been listed, but this forum seems to have an issue to turning a blind eye to anything that is less than popular.

The forum can be a rough place in that respect.

People have the freedom to make a variety of build choices in this game. I'm neutral about the feats when it comes to others. Personally, I wouldn't bother with them on any of my builds.

Personally, I don't have a problem with people who 'bless' chests. That is, until I join a clearly marked lfm for a speed run and have to put up with a player with these feats pitching a fit. They don't belong there imo, as it slows things down and causes unnecessary conflicts.

Incidentally, I don't always join speed runs, as some have tried to attack in my previous statements. I seem to recall a silly long Gianthold Tor I was in over the weekend with Emili. My wiz has made numerous runs with newer players over the weekend for the fun of it. And it is fun when in the mood for it.

However if I join a clearly marked speed run, then that's the expectation. I'm not going to waste time arguing with a chest blesser. I temp squelch and move on. The debate can happen following the run, not during it. Especially when they are pitching a fit filled with expletives. I've got multiple other toons to run through the raid on whatever day. I don't have time for that, and I find that the rest of the party is on the same page.

[Kalari]

Bah wrong quote but he knows who this is addressing.

I think if you had read my whole little post you would have saw that I said from my perspective from people I have run with and guild as have others who post they to run speed runs on my server. But youve got a bee in your bonnet over it I can see you didnt like that I called it a waste of feats which is just my opinion. Or that I have stated I do not wish to play with people who yell for such reasons. We will definitely always disagree about this so I think im done responding to you. I hope your not really as angry as your posting comes across and if you are sorry about that. See thats the beauty about ddo big enough and enough servers where you and I will probably never run together and from what I read and what you read of me that is probably for the best.

[muffinlad]

The good is- In some quests you could take your chance of pulls from +1 tomes to +2, and grab a bit more plat.

The bad is- Slow animation and forgetful teammates make it problematic on fast runs, or even runs where there are many chests and slow down/aggravate other team members.

The Yak is: Someone wasted three feats for a small increase- they crippled their character so you could get better loot, and many folks simply to not care about it.

Seems to me that this can be solved with communication- Let your team know what you expect as the leader.

Then ask everyone to type in (yes TYPE) that they AGREE before the adventure begins, or drop group now.

The 3-4 min you set at the beginning for the ground rules is usually worth the "wait" in gold.

Regs,

muffinweigh

[Bargol]

Yep, its about a valid a comparison as those who want a max dps build, but can affort to 'waste' build points on con...

Again, just because you consider feats less than ideal, does not give you the right to impose your beliefs upon another player. There are several builds that are completely functional with room for the feats, some have even been listed, but this forum seems to have an issue to turning a blind eye to anything that is less than popular.

I am sorry but your comparison to "wasting points in con" doesn't work because you have plenty of points to up con, but most builds don't have feats to waste. Many builds are feat starved in fact.

Its like the wizard who can't insta kill or enchant because he is missing the feats (saw this in the vale). The melee bard who has meek damage because he is missing the melee feats (IQ). The sorc who's damage is subpar because he is missing metamagic feats (refuge).....etc.

The point isn't that these are less then popular, which they are not popular, but that the benefit does not outweight what you give up. Why must you impose your beliefs that these feats are great and the subpar toon which has them on others?

[theboatman]

I am sorry but your comparison to "wasting points in con" doesn't work because you have plenty of points to up con, but most builds don't have feats to waste. Many builds are feat starved in fact.

Its like the wizard who can't insta kill or enchant because he is missing the feats (saw this in the vale). The melee bard who has meek damage because he is missing the melee feats (IQ). The sorc who's damage is subpar because he is missing metamagic feats (refuge).....etc.

The point isn't that these are less then popular, which they are not popular, but that the benefit does not outweight what you give up. Why must you impose your beliefs that these feats are great and the subpar toon which has them on others?

How does it not work? 'Many' builds are point starved. I want a TWF KotC Paladin, but i can't afford the build points. Last I checked I can't afford much con if I put enough points in Str/Dex/Cha in order to prevent being 'subpar'...

And last I checked every build gets more than three feats...just not all of them can afford the dragonmarks. I never at any point said that all builds can utilize them well, in fact without the charisma to support them many builds get lackluster returns from them. That doesn't mean the feats don't work.

I have at no point said the feats are 'great', I simply said they worked. Then I listed an example of a character that I played that functions competently with them.

Every example of 'subpar' could be applied to the same character, without the dragonmarks, to those that lack top end gear.

The problem with your arguement is that every example has outliers, and that effective builds can be made utilizing greater dragonmarks (not just the Finding dragonmarks.) To suggest otherwise is to let your personal bias influence your comments, and leads to misinformation.

I have up to this point tried to be objective about the topic, starting with addressing the issue of 'social politics in shroud/etc', then progressing to attempting to clarify the facts for those that had qustions. At no point did I try to impose any belief, other than the belief that there is some measure of civility left in this game and on these forums. But as this has devolved into unwarranted personal attacks/neg repping instead of a healthy conversation/debate on the several aspects of the original post, I will take my leave now. Thank you all that contriubuted; there is more than enough accurate information donated by several different posters that a curious player, new or old, may learn something.

[fluffybunnywilson]

Yep, its about a valid a comparison as those who want a max dps build, but can affort to 'waste' build points on con...

Again, just because you consider feats less than ideal, does not give you the right to impose your beliefs upon another player.

I haven't seen anyone in this thread say that people shouldn't be allowed to play their gimpy chest blessers. They just don't particularly want the chest blessers in the party with them.

I have seen solid evidence that characters can survive a Shroud just fine wiht 0% fortification. I've done Shroud repeatedly with a Royal Guard Helm instead of my Minos Legens. That doesn't mean that I want to invite people with 0% fortification to my party for a Shroud and it doesn't mean that I approve of running with 0% fortification on a regular basis.

[Razcar]

Actually, a spellsinger bard, with high charisma, 40 for example. Toughness, Emp. Heal, Extend, Maximize, Heighten, Spell Focus: Enchant, Greater Focus: Enchant, Spell Penetration are the feats I listed earlier. I can drop toughness and still have more than 400hp. I can drop Maximize and still heal/cc epics fine. I can drop Spell Penetration and still Otto's Irresistable the Drow that have high SR. I can drop Extend and just cast rage/haste/displace more often.
And for what? For what do you decrease your HP, healing ability, and buff longevity? For increasing your income a couple of percent, in a game where getting filthy rich is about the easiest thing there is.



But making blanket statements about how how bad these feats are and therefore how gimped a build that utilizes them basically says 'I don't respect you as a player/gamer/human enough to let you make your own decisions about your playstyle'
Yes you can make a blanket statement because it is the truth. The cost of these feats is high, and the return is very, very small. Dragonmarks in general have a very low return on investment, and the Tharashk ones are some of the worst of them all.

I do respect people's rights to build their characters how they want. The thing with the Finding dragonmarks is that they are very "in your face" (pun intended ;) ) - while you wait for the Marked dude to get 50 more plat out of some chests it leaves you plenty of time to wonder which three important feats he skipped for this pointless trick.

[Razcar]

I doubt any devs will find their way here, but the Dragonmarks really need a major revision. Either they will have to be made more powerful, or the cost has to go down.

I [edit] think the cost should be changed to one feat to unlock the Dragonmark, and then you only spend Action Points to increase your Least Mark to Lesser and Greater instead of Feats. Maybe bake in the Lesser and Greater marks into the already existing line for Extra Dragonmark Use.

In PnP D&D it makes sense to charge one feat for each DM since they give power and influence in the game world, but that doesn't apply here. It was a mistake to charge as much for them in DDO as in PnP.


But as this has devolved into unwarranted personal attacks/neg repping...
If you get neg repped for stating your opinion you can report it and the mods will negate the neg rep (double negatives? ;) ).

[Kovalas]

I doubt any devs will find their way here, but the Dragonmarks really need a major revision. Either they will have to be made more powerful, or the cost has to go down.

I then the cost should be changed to one feat to unlock the Dragonmark, and then you only spend Action Points to increase your Least Mark to Lesser and Greater instead of Feats. Maybe bake in the Lesser and Greater marks into the already existing line for Extra Dragonmark Use.

In PnP D&D it makes sense to charge one feat for each DM since they give power and influence in the game world, but that doesn't apply here. It was a mistake to charge as much for them in DDO as in PnP.


If you get neg repped for stating your opinion you can report it and the mods will negate the neg rep (double negatives? ;) ).

Or

Make them stack! so you could make a 'loot group', 5 chest blessers and 1 zerger, zerger completes the dungeon, blessers run behind doing there stuff on the chests, all arrive at end chest, dd back to start, go loot all chests, +10 loot! +3 tomes in Waterworks/Irestone anyone!?! :P

Kov

[BrightAsh]

Not reading through 5 pages of text... but in respons to the blessing of chests and the "i'm not gonna wait 30 seconds just to get a useless blessed chest"

1st: it is not everyones 4-milionst run and some people actually don't have 4500 gazillion plat and do like a +1 on their loot. I myself couldn't care less about loot anymore. But seriously, some people do and it is a team effor.
imho it is simple math:

But basicly where the entire discussion is boiling down to is simple math
30 minutes shroud
30 seconds extra (which is exaggerated, it is more like 20, but for the sake of the argument i will go with 30)
equals: 1.67% of the time you spend... (1.1% on 20 seconds ore more on longer shrouds)

Now was that so hard to wait for?

[moops]

As those are unaffected by the gDM:Finding, your analysis is flawed to say the least :rolleyes:

Ty, I really enjoyed the day I had to wait 22 mins for one of your guildies to come buff a chest ON THE WAY to HOX. And then we failed. TO CLARIFY-a normal HOX takes 15 mins run to end--that 22 mins wasted alot of time, meant that many people could not stick around for a 2nd run. Oh and this was 22 mins after the party was filled and most of the run cleared. So we are all just hanging around the fire reaver chest doing nothing for 22 mins.

There are people in this thread arguing that buffing chests, even warded chests, increases the chance of +3 tomes, a couple using it is their argument as to why it is not a waste. I simply stated that I'm doing just fine getting them running without a loothooker. All of my +4 tomes have come from chests, I have never even seen a +4 tome on my TOD end rewards list across 7 dif alts--2 of these came from 2nd chest in TOD on just Normal.

My guildies/friends did play with the marks--as well as loot gems-- so I did spend some time getting my +5 darts, as well as never saw a +3 or +4 tome drop.

TO JAID314
I find that it's actually fun to run things fast, gets your adrenaline pumping, plus sometimes there are all sorts of neat and fun pranks/contests going on :)

[zwiebelring]

Blessing chests ina Shroud is just unnecessary. You run it frequently, 1 a week, 2 a week, who cares. You have enough money out of it regardless of +1 to loot or not. So, the only valid questions are, does the group want to wait and, should you maybe develop social skills and not yell at people?

Disclaimer:
I do not have gazillions of plat and I am not on my billionst Shroudrun, I did 40 so far and do not wanna wait longer than necessary any more.


Now was that so hard to wait for?
Yes, it was and still is. When you even have the jackpot and those people start yelling and stuff... sorry Sir, I tend to ignore every blesser, use it on solo runs but don't irritate groupmembers.

[fluffybunnywilson]

Not reading through 5 pages of text... but in respons to the blessing of chests and the "i'm not gonna wait 30 seconds just to get a useless blessed chest"

1st: it is not everyones 4-milionst run and some people actually don't have 4500 gazillion plat and do like a +1 on their loot. I myself couldn't care less about loot anymore. But seriously, some people do and it is a team effor.
imho it is simple math:

But basicly where the entire discussion is boiling down to is simple math
30 minutes shroud
30 seconds extra (which is exaggerated, it is more like 20, but for the sake of the argument i will go with 30)
equals: 1.67% of the time you spend... (1.1% on 20 seconds ore more on longer shrouds)

Now was that so hard to wait for?

If you can get to the chest and bless it before I get there, then you are more than welcome to bless the chest. Heck, I'll even shrine first in order to give you an opportunity to bless the chest uninterrupted. But if you can't manage to get to the chest and bless it before I shrine, then you either have no respect for the rest of the party's time or you have some other significant problem.

I'm not really all that zergy, but I want to run around and kill stuff, not sit around and pick my nose while someone fiddles with a chest and figures out which are the 73 most important buffs that they'll need for the next stage of the Shroud.

(And here's a hint for those buffs. You need Fire and Freedom of Movement and Haste. That's all you need. In part 1 all you need is Haste. Go buy some Neutralize Poison potions in the Marketplace.)

[theboatman]

And for what? For what do you decrease your HP, healing ability, and buff longevity? For increasing your income a couple of percent, in a game where getting filthy rich is about the easiest thing there is.


Yes you can make a blanket statement because it is the truth. The cost of these feats is high, and the return is very, very small. Dragonmarks in general have a very low return on investment, and the Tharashk ones are some of the worst of them all.

I do respect people's rights to build their characters how they want. The thing with the Finding dragonmarks is that they are very "in your face" (pun intended ;) ) - while you wait for the Marked dude to get 50 more plat out of some chests it leaves you plenty of time to wonder which three important feats he skipped for this pointless trick.

Well, since some of these posts are back on topic (and i had a good nights sleep) I will start with this one.
The point is that the four feats listed can be dropped while maintaining the effectiveness of the build (I personally would drop Spell Pen instead of Extend; I don't mind recasting short rage/haste, but Displace being a 'short' buff as well tips the scales back to keeping it).

The second point is that you made a correct statement: the cost is high, the return is small. I do not disagree with you, I disagree with those that state: the cost is high, there is no return. While many players don't feel its worth it for 50 more plat, (in fact I don't think any players think it's worth it if that was the only return) those of us that do wait are not doing it for the percentage increase on our loot haul, we are doing it at an increased chance of pulling that once in a lifetime random loot. You may not agree with the point of the feats, and you can certainly not approve of the opportunity cost involved (both feat-wise and time-wise), but making the assertion that the point does not exist is a fallacy.


I doubt any devs will find their way here, but the Dragonmarks really need a major revision. Either they will have to be made more powerful, or the cost has to go down.

I [edit] think the cost should be changed to one feat to unlock the Dragonmark, and then you only spend Action Points to increase your Least Mark to Lesser and Greater instead of Feats. Maybe bake in the Lesser and Greater marks into the already existing line for Extra Dragonmark Use.

In PnP D&D it makes sense to charge one feat for each DM since they give power and influence in the game world, but that doesn't apply here. It was a mistake to charge as much for them in DDO as in PnP.


If you get neg repped for stating your opinion you can report it and the mods will negate the neg rep (double negatives? ;) ).

Yes, this is the kind of discussion I had hoped this thread would evolve into once we got past the social aspect of them; I don't think that anyone in this thread would disagree that the opportunity cost of the Finding marks is higher than anything else impletmented, currently. And I do have experience with other marks, such as the Sentinal; at least I get two more points of Intimidate (that I still have to pay for) and some benefits when I use the Epic Fang as return when I spend feats for the Lesser/Greater.

As far as the neg rep issue: I do understand the mechanics and do report unwarranted rep, every time it rears it's ugly head. But when it starts happening, I compare it to a real life situation of a debate where someone feels they can improve their situation only by throwing a punch. I really have no reason getting involved in fights on a gaming forum, when I could be doing something else more constructive. The sad part is when it happens my only recourse is to 'tattle' on the 'bullies.'


Ty, I really enjoyed the day I had to wait 22 mins for one of your guildies to come buff a chest ON THE WAY to HOX. And then we failed.

There are people in this thread arguing that buffing chests, even warded chests, increases the chance of +3 tomes, a couple using it is their argument as to why it is not a waste. I simply stated that I'm doing just fine getting them running without a loothooker. All of my +4 tomes have come from chests, I have never even seen a +4 tome on my TOD end rewards list across 7 dif alts--2 of these came from 2nd chest in TOD on just Normal.

My guildies/friends did play with the marks--as well as loot gems-- so I did spend some time getting my +5 darts, as well as never saw a +3 or +4 tome drop.

TO JAID314
I find that it's actually fun to run things fast, gets your adrenaline pumping, plus sometimes there are all sorts of neat and fun pranks/contests going on :)

There are 99 ways to fail a HoX before you even start looking at feat choices of the players involved. Adding any corolation that dragonmarks are involved makes for a weak arguement. I could for example state that I have a higher success rate on elite pugs when I run VoD than on normal; more than half of the normal runs fall apart before we even step into the quest, and in those that do complete getting to the quest takes longer than the quest itself. But any sane person would want to look at other factors (ie the biggest one, players) before passing the blame to the dragonmarks.

I understand your position that you do fine without the marks. But you cannot say in the same breath that they are a waste. If they didn't work, I would agree with the assertion. But any benefit, however slight, prevents them from being worthless.

Congratulation on your tomes. I am aware of this happening from multiple guildies; some have happened when there were loot bonuses going on, some have been without global loot increases. The point the tome folks in this thread are trying to make in this thread is that with the dragonmark, your chance at pulling a tome, however small, is increased; and that they feel this small increase is worth their time, particularly when the actions of one player can effect eleven others.

[Ungood]

To all you "Gimpy" Chest Blessers that feel left out or feel that people don't give you the love you deserve. Join my LFM's! Since I have no luck keeping Plat in my bank for some odd reason, I am willing to wait the 20 seconds for you to bless the chests to give me the +1 loot boon.

However, as others have said, if they fixed it. so that it could work AFTER the chest was open to give all the following players the boon, that would work out very nicely as well, that way, those that don't want to wait, don't have to, and those that are willing can reap the rewards, and everyone wins!

[Cyr]

You may not agree with the point of the feats, and you can certainly not approve of the opportunity cost involved (both feat-wise and time-wise), but making the assertion that the point does not exist is a fallacy.
.

I think the point that you are overlooking is that when some people (such as me) say they are junk feats or worthless feats we judge that based upon their effect on the odds of completing content. They do not improve survivability or dps and as such they are essentially the feat equivelent of the haggle skill. Haggle skill is neat, but if someone is dumping their UMD skill to max their haggle skill, on their bard lets say, then yeah it does gimp their toon. In this case the feats are a large investment on the toons most likely to benefit from them and frankly one that inevitably degrades their effectiveness in completing content.

The issue with these feats is that they spend resources that normally improve your effectiveness at completing content in a manner that improves your effectiveness at something else. This is similar to the conversations that occured around crafting and if requiring feats was a good idea. The decision was made that it was a very poor idea in the end. That was a good decision.

A similar decision should be made with dragonmarks (as all of them are lacking in power with this one just being the worst offender when it comes to usefullness in completing content) where they are switched from using up a finite resource that competes with effective in completing content (quests/raids) abilities to one that uses up a new resource...

An effective method of doing this could involve tying dragonmarks to favor instead of feats. Things that really do help in combat (like sentinals +2 intim bonus or more heal halfling dragonmarks) could still require an investment of AP as these are actually competitive with other choices.

[Xandrel]

An effective method of doing this could involve tying dragonmarks to favor instead of feats. Things that really do help in combat (like sentinals +2 intim bonus or more heal halfling dragonmarks) could still require an investment of AP as these are actually competitive with other choices.

Very good idea...

[Jahmin]

Ty, I really enjoyed the day I had to wait 22 mins for one of your guildies to come buff a chest ON THE WAY to HOX. And then we failed.

There are people in this thread arguing that buffing chests, even warded chests, increases the chance of +3 tomes, a couple using it is their argument as to why it is not a waste. I simply stated that I'm doing just fine getting them running without a loothooker. All of my +4 tomes have come from chests, I have never even seen a +4 tome on my TOD end rewards list across 7 dif alts--2 of these came from 2nd chest in TOD on just Normal.

First, it was not 22 minutes; second and far more germane, is that the reason we were waiting was that half the party cleared to the quest WHILE THE GROUP WAS STILL FILLING. So unless you are trying to suggest that we should have half manned it, then we were waiting regardless – in which case, what difference did it make whether we waited before looting for the party to catch up or after? Right, absolutely ZERO since we were waiting regardless :rolleyes: In any event, the group was stated as such so if you joined whose fault is that?

Lots of misinformation in the thread sadly, mostly from the clearly ignorant haters. As the mark does NOT affect raid loot, arguing that you have ‘plenty of +3/4 tomes without it’ clearly demonstrates you are at least ignorant if not one of them. Since it has no bearing whatsoever on the number of +3/4 tomes you have bringing that up as a reason the marks are bad is beyond irrelevant.

Indeed if what you are posting is really what you believe then it is clear you do not understand loot gen in the least. If you want to contribute at least get your facts straight.

[fluffybunnywilson]

Since it has no bearing whatsoever on the number of +3/4 tomes you have bringing that up as a reason the marks are bad is beyond irrelevant.

Thank you for correctly pointing out that the dragonmark has no effect on loot that anyone cares about.

[cdemeritt]

http://i968.photobucket.com/albums/ae165/TomThumb_03/mimic-1.jpg

For those who want to bless the chest, bless this one!

[Jahmin]

Thank you for correctly pointing out that the dragonmark has no effect on loot that anyone cares about.

Then why open any other chest? :rolleyes:

[fluffybunnywilson]

Then why open any other chest? :rolleyes:

So that I can get junk to deconstruct, of course!

[Jaid314]

Thank you for correctly pointing out that the dragonmark has no effect on loot that anyone cares about.

on the contrary, while there is a relatively low chance of pulling, say, a +5 RR holy burst silver/cold iron <weapon> of greater evil/lawful/chaotic outsider bane with a guild augment slot (or a banishing silver/cold iron of greater evil/lawful/chaotic outsider bane for those capped paladins), the chance is there. it is improved when the chest you loot is a higher level, because your chance for seeing a min level 20 item at all is improved.

but hey, if you don't think that's worth anything, then should you ever happen to loot one i'll take that piece of junk off your hands, to avoid cluttering up your inventory. i mean, i know it's a terrible burden and all, but i'm willing to bear that burden if i must.

heck, i'll even take that junky +3 scimitar of shattermantle. since, after all, it's barely even worth opening the chest for many of you, apart from when you want to annoy a chest blesser, apparently...

[danotmano1998]

Last Weekend I was yelled by a Chest Blesser in a shroud Run!

Sadly it was mentioned in party chat before.
But I was distracted and unfortunately opened the chest before the said "Blesser" could get to the chest.

Yes, I know it can boost the loot die in +1 for everyone.
But why some people get so worked up about it?

Is it really worth the trouble?

I mean Seriously?

A great way to waste feats imo....

/rant off

I just ran with a chest blesser. It took an extra minute to complete the quest. Everyone was happy because they played the way they wanted to.

I think yelling at you and getting worked up over it is over the top, unless you did it a few times in a row. A gentle reminder would have been just fine.

[alcmaeon]

I'm going to the beach now. I am going to bless all the chests that I can!

[Leatherneck]

I am a "former" chest blesser. While I found the concept novel, and the actual blessing of chests fun at the time I must admit that it was a waste of time and a feat, as far as Min/Max goes. But it was fun at times! Especially when I would preposition myself next to a chest just to beat the other players before they opened it.
Or Hasting myself and not my party just to beat them to a chest! Hehe

I used the feat on my haggle bard and it worked okay. Found the character lacking later on in his life though. Anyone just wanting to try it out for fun i'd advise to go for it, but do not plan on it as a viable choice in the long term. By no means yell/scream or get mad at someone for opening the chest before you bless it though, that's just poor form overall.

[HAL]

First, I'd like to know the OP's definition of "yell". If the blesser said "Hey - you were supposed to wait until I blessed the chest." (since they were already told to wait) then I don't define that as "yelling" even if they said it in an excited voice. Then you have some commenters talking about "melt downs" and "ranting" and "swearing" - that is not "yelling" and I don't think most people believe its correct behavior.

But after reading most of the commenters snarky comments about some peoples' choice in making their character, I'm certainly glad that I almost never run with PUGs (and these forums always confirm this choice). All the times when I've been on with my cleric, WF wiz or sorc and turned down invites are specifically because of all the nasty commenters. I wish DDO would have some kind of designation for tolerant people so we could all join PUGs in peace. "Look, this PUG is 3/4 Tolerant People - I have a pretty good chance of a good run with this one, I'll join."

[moops]

[QUOTE=theboatman;3830725]
There are 99 ways to fail a HoX before you even start looking at feat choices of the players involved. Adding any corolation that dragonmarks are involved makes for a weak arguement. I could for example state that I have a higher success rate on elite pugs when I run VoD than on normal; more than half of the normal runs fall apart before we even step into the quest, and in those that do complete getting to the quest takes longer than the quest itself. But any sane person would want to look at other factors (ie the biggest one, players) before passing the blame to the dragonmarks.

I understand your position that you do fine without the marks. But you cannot say in the same breath that they are a waste. If they didn't work, I would agree with the assertion. But any benefit, however slight, prevents them from being worthless.
/QUOTE]

My point about the failed HOX as that we had to wait 22 mins before we even got into the raid--for a chest blesser--it added wasted time--a normal HOX takes 15 mins run to end--that 22 mins, meant that many people could not stick around for a 2nd run. I will go back and clarify this.

If they do work, or are not a waste, why did you get rid of them?

[moops]

First, it was not 22 minutes; second and far more germane, is that the reason we were waiting was that half the party cleared to the quest WHILE THE GROUP WAS STILL FILLING. So unless you are trying to suggest that we should have half manned it, then we were waiting regardless – in which case, what difference did it make whether we waited before looting for the party to catch up or after? Right, absolutely ZERO since we were waiting regardless :rolleyes: In any event, the group was stated as such so if you joined whose fault is that?

Lots of misinformation in the thread sadly, mostly from the clearly ignorant haters. As the mark does NOT affect raid loot, arguing that you have ‘plenty of +3/4 tomes without it’ clearly demonstrates you are at least ignorant if not one of them. Since it has no bearing whatsoever on the number of +3/4 tomes you have bringing that up as a reason the marks are bad is beyond irrelevant.

Indeed if what you are posting is really what you believe then it is clear you do not understand loot gen in the least. If you want to contribute at least get your facts straight.

You are thinking of a different run. I could get 3 people from other guilds to come here and back me up--we all sent tells to each other wondering if we should dump the group--I was the one that kept them from dumping the group, and every minute that ticked by I felt it was my fault for wasting their time--we all were timing it. I joined thinking, How bad can it be? It's been a few months or more since then and I now know better.But because it was advertised, it is the reason why I DID NOT leave the group and talked the others into staying.

Oh and some of the "misinformation" comes from one of the most respected players in the game, who has played since Beta.
But regardless if it is true or not, if people can use it as an argument to why we should wait for someone to buff chests, I can use as an argument that one can get many, many tomes without chest buffers.

[SardaofChaos]

It's still not a complete comparison, as the majority of +3/+4 tomes are not obtained in chests as loot drop, but from 20th raid completions...perhaps we would see more if the clunky mechanic of the finding mark was somehow streamlined...

True, but just because the argument one is tearing down is also flawed doesn't mean it's okay to use flawed reasoning to do so.

[Iriveh]

So if you knew that a holy bursting silver khopesh (or whatever weapon you want, really) of greater evil outside bane was your 'trash loot' rolled by the system, would you want the chest blesser to go to every length possible to make sure the chest was high enough level to allow it to appear?

Thats exactly how tomes work within the chests.



Is there some known guideline that indicates a tome is at a certain chest level? That what it sounds like people are saying? What's the evidence that a tome is at a higher chest level? My experience with DM chests is that they didn't appear to produce better loot than non-DM chests and tome frequency didn't somehow change.

[Truga]

1. The mark pretty much only increases trash loot value. Not bad, but not very good either.

2. Mechanic should be: Dude with the dragonmark inside the quest when it's opened: Chest has better loot. Silly animations and cooldowns and whatnot are silly.

[Carpone]

A feature of U10: mimics eat chest blessers.

[Arlathen]

Had a funny shroud run where a different person forgot each time and 5 chests were opened. The chest blesser couldnt even breath at the end of it.

On an other wise dreary and boring day at work, this comment brought a bit of humour into my life :D

[phillymiket]

;)If you bless your chest does that make it bigger?

http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/2770/chestbless.jpg

[Jahmin]

My point about the failed HOX as that we had to wait 22 mins before we even got into the raid--for a chest blesser--it added wasted time--a normal HOX takes 15 mins run to end--that 22 mins, meant that many people could not stick around for a 2nd run.

I disagree with this recollection

[Jahmin]

You are thinking of a different run. I could get 3 people from other guilds to come here and back me up--we all sent tells to each other wondering if we should dump the group--I was the one that kept them from dumping the group, and every minute that ticked by I felt it was my fault for wasting their time--we all were timing it. I joined thinking, How bad can it be? It's been a few months or more since then and I now know better.But because it was advertised, it is the reason why I DID NOT leave the group and talked the others into staying.
Lots of raids, so I will give you the benefit of the doubt, but I do not think so. Anyway… :rolleyes:


Oh and some of the "misinformation" comes from one of the most respected players in the game, who has played since Beta.
As have many of us.


But regardless if it is true or not, if people can use it as an argument to why we should wait for someone to buff chests, I can use as an argument that one can get many, many tomes without chest buffers.

No. This is where you are confused. A greater chance of random tomes /= a greater chance of raid tomes; ergo, arguing that your great number of raid tomes acquired without a blessing is completely and utterly WRONG since the two have NOTHING to do with each other. I could equally argue that that +loot weekends are pointless since I have an entire library of raid tomes from when there was merely regular loot. I would equally be wrong :eek:

Citing others that are just as mistaken as you is hardly justification to continue repeating their (and your) error, especially after you have been corrected.

[Gkar]

1. The mark pretty much only increases trash loot value. Not bad, but not very good either.

2. Mechanic should be: Dude with the dragonmark inside the quest when it's opened: Chest has better loot. Silly animations and cooldowns and whatnot are silly.

Right on both points.

[Gkar]

on the contrary, while there is a relatively low chance of pulling, say, a +5 RR holy burst silver/cold iron <weapon> of greater evil/lawful/chaotic outsider bane with a guild augment slot (or a banishing silver/cold iron of greater evil/lawful/chaotic outsider bane for those capped paladins), the chance is there. it is improved when the chest you loot is a higher level, because your chance for seeing a min level 20 item at all is improved..

A higher loot level doesn't really increase your chance at something better. As anyone who has run Amarath knows, it tends to give higher value loot than the Vale, but its often less useful stuff since its Vale stuff with extra
"of deception" added to increase your ML and make it less useful. Sure, you can get lucky, but you can also get junkier. A higher ML on balance does nothing for the actual quality of your loot, at best it increases the average trash value by such a small amount that you generally don't notice. (Proof of that is on +1 loot weekends people usually complain that it must not be working because they can't see better loot)

[dragon2fire]

I avoid the "I boost chests" lfms more than I avoid any other type. Unless I am in the mood to watch/listen to someone melt down. Everytime I have run with these folks who have burned feats, someone always opens the chest too early. It is almost always innocent, just auto-piloting "oops" opened the chest. And every run I have been in the "blessed" explodes over voice chat.

Had a funny shroud run where a different person forgot each time and 5 chests were opened. The chest blesser couldnt even breath at the end of it.

On a personal view, I can't think of many worse ways to waste feats than to take these things. I have seen favored souls and clerics on my server with "I boost chests" lfms. How the heck do you drop three useful feats on such feat starved classes for a tiny increase in vendor fodder? Maybe, maybe on a fighter, could I see it. But not really.

My main is a fvs chest blesser. you can very easily as a human handle the feats needed for healing and attack magic and still have the 3 for the dragonmark. Though you cant do everything. I gave up heighten witch weakens my instant death but honestly if your counting on me for that at epics something is messed up.

[fluffybunnywilson]

My main is a fvs chest blesser. you can very easily as a human handle the feats needed for healing and attack magic and still have the 3 for the dragonmark. Though you cant do everything. I gave up heighten witch weakens my instant death but honestly if your counting on me for that at epics something is messed up.

Empower Healing
Quicken
Maximise
Empower
Extend
Toughness
Spell Penetration
SF: Evocation
GSF: Evocation
Venti Spell Penetration
Dragonmark of Tall Finding
Dragonmark of Grande Finding
Dragomark of Venti Finding.

What else did you give up aside from Heighten? There aren't even enough feat slots to take everything you'll want for healing and attack magic without the Dragonmarks of Loot.

[twigzz]

Yeah I LOL everytime I see a sorc or FvS with the finding marks. I would never gimp my toon for a +1 trash loot.


I was also in a Shroud run with a chest buffer the other day. According to him the run he did 3 days before, he buffed the last ingred chests and there were 5 scales in it. He was quick to mention that the only reason there was so many was because he buffed the chest......

[dragon2fire]

Empower Healing
Quicken
Maximise
Empower
Extend
Toughness
Spell Penetration
SF: Evocation
GSF: Evocation
Venti Spell Penetration
Dragonmark of Tall Finding
Dragonmark of Grande Finding
Dragomark of Venti Finding.

What else did you give up aside from Heighten? There aren't even enough feat slots to take everything you'll want for healing and attack magic without the Dragonmarks of Loot.

lets start with i heal that is my main function...second extend is so unnecessary its laughable. here is my feat list. toughness. maximize empower empower healing quicken....and that really is all you need to be a effective healer.

[fluffybunnywilson]

lets start with i heal that is my main function...second extend is so unnecessary its laughable. here is my feat list. toughness. maximize empower empower healing quicken....and that really is all you need to be a effective healer.

Those feats are more than enough to be an effective healer, but you implied that you were effective at both healing and offensive magic. I stand by my mantra that any Cleric or FvS that is only healing is a waste of a character slot.

Also, I have trouble letting go of Extend because short term melee buffs + longer Blade Barriers make me happy. And I have trouble coming to terms with the fact that Blade Barriers don't get extended any more. :)

[dragon2fire]

My divine punishment hits hard. My blade barrierrs could be better but they are not bad. they are solid for anything short of epics.

[Verdex]

Last Weekend I was yelled by a Chest Blesser in a shroud Run!

Sadly it was mentioned in party chat before.
But I was distracted and unfortunately opened the chest before the said "Blesser" could get to the chest.

Yes, I know it can boost the loot in +1 for everyone.
But why some people get so worked up about it?

Is it really worth the trouble?

I mean Seriously?

A great way to waste feats imo....

/rant off

I had that feat for awhile, I choose not to yell just remind again. Other people who were running for loot yelled though. Seems when your farming something for weeks and find a chest blesser suddenly you NEVER FORGET he is in group. People would have me rest to try again if it failed....geez

When i was using that feat in one run of Tor i pulled 3 scales, sandstorm goggles and jorgundals collar (btw if you have a chest blesser it's one best times to use that loot gem you've had sitting in your inventory since lvl 4 when you thought it'd REALLY help and wasted TP

[Verdex]

Oh, yes. It's bad enough that I've spent (almost wasted, even in my eyes) three feats on the ability. Making it take a second or two seems fine, including a decreased cool-down. Just kicking the chest as the animation would work, and let one move on before the PUGs open the next chest.

As for the 'annoying chest blessers'... +1 to **** is still ****, agreed, but it still hurts when I start the animation and see the party members open the chest before the animation is even half-way done.

I can beat that, your praying...they start to open and your typing WAIT STOP I"M BELSSING!!!
it opens then the arrow appears...did it work? it was close...does that count? ahhh

[kernal42]

When i was using that feat in one run of Tor i pulled 3 scales, sandstorm goggles and jorgundals collar

1: Sandstorm glasses drop from ADQ. Maybe you mean Intricate Field Optics?
2: Loost boosting effects do not affect the chance to get named loot. Still.
3: Anecdotal evidence is not evidence.
4: Dragonmarks of finding are still a waste of three feats.

-Kernal

[donfilibuster]

Your offering pleases the Mimic! nom nom nom

[theboatman]

1: Sandstorm glasses drop from ADQ. Maybe you mean Intricate Field Optics?
2: Loost boosting effects do not affect the chance to get named loot. Still.
3: Anecdotal evidence is not evidence.
4: Dragonmarks of finding are still a waste of three feats.

-Kernal

You were doing ok until you inserted personal opinion into part 4.

A better rewrite would be "my personal opinion is that there are better options for the three feat slots that the dragonmarks would occupy, because they dont increase the possibility of named drops" but instead seem to continually try to stifle any discussion on the topic with blanket statements that are not true in every case.

Case in point: Greater Dragonmark of Finding will increase the overall drop percentages of Mnemonics. Nope, its not a tome, and it doesnt have a gold border around it, but there are no vendors selling them anywhere for in game currency.

[Wolja]

I don't wait for chests to be blessed. I dont wait for traps to be disabled.

EVER! almost... See below

If you want to to do it, fine. Don't ask me to play your way (unless it was in the LFM then I'll be courteous as I joined you)

Let me guess you also zerg and waste others time as you sit uselessly dead.

It's amazing how the only way some people will be courteous is if it's a written requirement.

[Fenrisulven6]

The issue isnt about the loot from what I see. Its about common civility to each other, and how sorely lacking it is on DDO, which imo is one of the worse MMO communities Ive had the displeasure to be a part of.

To those who Zerg in any fashion and think its thier right because its all about gain per time, play solo already. You are only being less then what you could be every time you ignore those you play with for the sake of your own amusement. If you want to ignore folks dont be on a team with them its that easy. SOLO everything and you can play as fast as you want and ignore the parts of a dungeon you loathe, and grab that loot you hate so much and be on your way.

The worst thing about DDO is how the vocal minority of zergers pushes thier speed is king attitude on the whole and kills any real chance of DDO ever being more then a niche in the MMO market.

Vanq knocks it out of the park. +1

Isn't it amazing how the people who complain that you're "wasting our time" have no clue that they are wasting everyone else's? If I wanted to group with someone who was going to super-hero the quest, I would have parked my toon at the entrance and spent that 10 mins on something less boring.

[AnubisPrime]

I'd welcome any boost to loot that I can get...

[azrael4h]

Those feats are more than enough to be an effective healer, but you implied that you were effective at both healing and offensive magic. I stand by my mantra that any Cleric or FvS that is only healing is a waste of a character slot.

Also, I have trouble letting go of Extend because short term melee buffs + longer Blade Barriers make me happy. And I have trouble coming to terms with the fact that Blade Barriers don't get extended any more. :)

Extend no longer affects Blade Barriers, or any persistent spell other than buffs.