Epic Item Review: Part 4, Inspired Quaters and Dreaming Darkness

[xandariant]

I posteed Sirgog about it and he sugested I should write something since he is lookig after other stuff - Sands Items now, so here is some thoughts:

For now Inspired Quaters and Dreaming Darkness is only about making quite easy XP. Items form it are just low or normal. Only special item in there are Gloves of Titan's Grip.
Rest of them supressed and unsupressed arent very good. Maybe Death's Touch can be considered a good items but it goes away with Abbot Staff.

Making those items needs buying 2 adventure packs. That is why those should be worth it. For now they arent even close to that.
For the start I would consider making them epic items after upgrade (lvl20).
Since those quests arent epic but they need a lot of farming i would say for upgrade an item there should be a need like maybe 5 epic dungeon tokens or 3 epic raid tokens and all (4x6) essences that were needed untill now.

I would say - MAKE THOSE ITEMS WORTH buying GETTING 2 PACKS (and 3rd pack for epic tokens).

Light and Darkness (unsupressed)
Now:
+5 Large Shield (dmg:1d8 SB:8, DR:7, SF:5%) Superior Stability, Protection +4, Resistance +4, DR 3/-, Adamantine, Mithral, DR 5/Epic, Bashing

Comment:
It could be a really nice shild oriented for warriors that will fo with nautral alighment, for now even among epic items we still miss shilds with good dmg that will be oriented for bashing feats that can be taken by fighters.
Protection +4, Resistance +4 arent need. If you are defender of siberis or you aren't true neutral get another shild. For this should be DR breaking shild. There is not even one untill now.

Proposition:
+8 Large Shield (dmg:3d8 SB:10, DR:9, SF:5%) Superior Stability, DR 5/-, Adamantine, Mithral, DR 8/Epic, Bashing, Riposte, Superior Parrying, Exceptional Dexterity +2, Righteousness, Empty Blue Augumant Slot, Empty Red Augumant Slot


Gloves of Titan's Grip (unsupressed)
Titan's Grip (CL:18, 3/1 rest), Strength +6, Improved Reconstruction IX, Major Repair Lore, Repair Systems

Comment:
This is supposed to be an melee item, so thy wo de need reconstruction? Only to make it unsure who really should use it? Also we need 7str so we dont need to swich them with Epic Brawling Gloves all the time only to use that str clicky.

Proposition:
Titan's Grip (CL:18, 3/1 rest), Strength +7, Repair Systems, Exceptional Strength +2, Empty Green Augumant Slot


Dream Edge (unsupressed)
Now:
+5 Kama, Maiming, Aligned, Bodyfeeder, <Random Effect>, Lesser Vampirism

Comment:
Most monks use only wraps. Wraps give nice bonuses with ToD rings. We need something in blance for those who who would consider using kamas insted.

Proposition:
(Base dmg 3d6) +6 Kama, Maiming, Aligned, Metaline, Bodyfeeder, <Random Effect>, Vampirism, Empty Red Augumant Slot, (maybe also Vorpal)


Death's Touch (unsupressed)
Now:
+5 Sickle (Base dmg: 1d6, 19-20/x2), Negative Energy Spike, Lesser Vampirism, Improved Nullification IX, Greater Void Lore, Taint of Evil, Unholy Burst, Greater Necromancy Focus

Comment:
Most common only for the Greater Necromancy Focus on one handed item. But it is a good item. It still needs some improvments.

Proposition:
+6 Sickle (Base dmg: 2d6, 19-20/x2), Negative Energy Spike, Vampirism, Superior Nullification IX, Superior Void Lore, Taint of Evil, Unholy Burst, Greater Necromancy Focus, Empty Voilet Augumant Slot (maybe also Power store and dropping something else, game need another items with power store)


Quorforged Docent of Battle (unsupressed)
Now:
+5 Docent, Reinforced Plating +2, Constitution +6, Will Save -2, Superior False Life, Toughness

Comment:
This docent have its good sides but its far from being a realy great and I see this as best doncet for all wargorge melee's. They just dont het any love lately especialy with all half-orcs in there lately, that can use all diffrent kinds of armors. WF are limited ony to few docents that are in there.

Proposition:
+6 Docent, Reinforced Plating +3, Constitution +7, Will Save -2, Superior False Life, Toughness, Exceptional Constitution +2, Repair Systems, Empty Blue Augumant Slot, Empty Colorless Augumant Slot, (maybe Empty Green Augumant Slot instead of Colorless)


Regalia of the Phoenix (unsupressed)/[b] (also as Docent of the Phoenix - make it possible to craft it on Stone of Change: Regalia of the Phoenix + Craftable Docent = Docent of the Phoenix)
Now:
Superior Inferno IX (CL:1, 3/3 rest), Combustion IX, Feather Falling, Greater Evocation Focus, Major Fire Lore

Comment:
I don't see ppl that use it altely, probaly because it dont give much lately.

Proposition:
Superior Inferno IX (CL:1, 3/3 rest), Combustion IX, Superior Combustion VII, Feather Falling, Greater Evocation Focus, Major Fire Lore, Superior Fire Resistance, Empty Blue Augumant Slot, Empty Colorless Augumant Slot


[b]Rahl's Might (unsupressed)
Now:
+5 Quarterstaff (Base dmg: 1d10, 20/x3, Slash, Pierce, Bludgeon), Strength +6, Improved Destruction, Deception, <<Hidden Effect: Increases all threat by 15%>>, Axiomatic Burst/Bleed,Puncturing/Force Burst

Comment:
This item is no longer impresive. It is still nice but i need a bit more. It should be 2nd best after epic Souleater, and very nice for all those Thief-Acrobats.

Proposition:
+8 Quarterstaff (Base dmg: 1d10, 20/x3, Slash, Pierce, Bludgeon), Strength +7, Improved Destruction, Incite +15%, Unbalancing, Good Luck +2, Empty Red Augumant Slot,
One of: Axiomatic Burst/ Bleed,Puncturing/ Force Burst/ Shocking Burs/ Impact, Maiming


Terror (unsupressed)
Now:
(dmg 2d6) +5 Great Sword, Fearsome, Nightmares, Intimidate +15, Deception, Phantasmal Killer (CL:18, 3/3 rest)

Comment:
This sword is a nice wepone. Its crystal, kind of vorpal and works good but not at lvl 18.
Its good to go hunt lover quests but i think it needs epic bust up.

Proposition:
(dmg 3d8) +8 Great Sword, Imroved Fearsome (better DC), Nightmares, Intimidate +20, Deception, Summon monster VIII - Orthon (3/3 rest), Doublestrike 6%, Empty Red Augumant Slot, Empty Colorless Augumant Slot.

[Qezuzu]

The quests aren't epic. The quests are very easy. They're easier than Shroud and easier than Epics. The loot is BtA, you do not get timered, and you can level to 20 while running it.

I mostly see L&D on Casters that want DR. DR 8/epic is almost as good as what Monks, FvS, and Barbs get, and a blue slot means it could be slotted to have no ASF. Too high for a single item.

Dream Edge is a Kama. Kamas suck. Same problem that epic daggers have.

There should never be a one handed weapon with power store. That would totally render the Staff of the Petitioner obsolete. Death's Touch is an easy source for Gtr Necro Focus. Fine as is.

I don't really see any problem with the Dream loot. The Gloves are great, the Sickle is a nice source of +2 Necro, the Regalia is a boost to Meteor Swarm, L&D provides good AC and saves for TN characters... even Terror is good on Rusties and Oozes. I'm just not seeing the point of reworking this loot. More important to hit real epics first. Or Titan loot, or half of the ToD sets.

[oradafu]

I thought the way the Gloves of Titan's Grip were designed, it was aimed at WF casters and healers that needed an quick boost to do some melee on mobs. For example, when something needed to be held than beaten down with a Dreamspitter. It also had the dual use of being useful for melees for a quick bump in STR. I think giving the gloves a +7 when unsurpressed would be nice, however I don't think it needs the exceptional +2 STR since it would boost STR to +15 on one item.

As for the Rahl's Staves, the one thing I'd like to see (and this is for all named staves) is that the higher stat between STR or DEX will determine the to-hit. Since the ability to do this is now available, there should be no real reason to prevent Dex-based Acrobats from using their Dex to hit stuff with staves.

[brucelee82]

It might be nice if down the road (waaaay down the road) you could run these quests on epic and upgrade them again to what you are suggesting. I think most of them are good as they are because you can get them fairly easy in a group and if you ever TR you will be running these quests a lot. Though Terror probably needs an upgrade currently to make it more than a rust/ooze beater.

[Esserbe]

I remember a thread in the past that suggested a reverse change - to lower the minimum level of the items to 14 or 16 instead, where they might find better use for a TR character and more use for first life and newer characters getting them for the first time.

[Jaid314]

rahl's might should drop incite +15% instead of deception if you make this epic.

the number of people using rahl's might that *want* aggro is nearly zero. the number of people using rahl's might who could get considerable benefit from deception is nearly 100% of the people who use it.

that said, unless these quests go up in difficulty, i disagree with making the gear epic. the quests are not hard. most of them are farmed, repeatedly, in speed runs, by people who are not capped, to get exp. the quests already serve a purpose. they're good exp and fast loot at high levels... the fact that the gear is not amazing is only a problem if you don't recognise that the gear is easy to get.

[Matuse]

Mindsunder items are fine. Any tweaking they need is minimal.

Suppressed Mindsunder loot should be min level 16. That's the min level to enter the pack, and it's kind of lame that you can acquire items that you can't wear.

Dream edge needs some of the lamer bonus mods removed, so the odds of getting a decent one improve slightly.
Unsuppressed Habiliment needs something better than Nimbleness...nobody cares about that. Mithril would be a good mod. Turn it light for evaders.
Unsuppressed Terror is an embarrasement with the Intim bonus and fear effect at the same time. Want to make it interesting? Give it greater ooze bane instead.

[Psyker]

I like the idea I saw about making these items 16, but other than that I see no reason to make these items better than they are, maybe change the requirement to unsupress the items to 2 or 3 of each essence, as right now it does require a lot of grinding for a fairly minimal addition. They are very good for BTA loot that is easy to get. These quests are not epic or even a Raid, the loot needs to reflect that (like it currently does).

[countfitz]

I agree with the above posts, instead of changing the items to "epic" for such EASY quests, how about lower the ML to the level character that could easily solo the quests, say 16. 14 would also work. When I consider, for example

Terror vs. Insanity, they are pretty much equal in terms of use, strength, and fun/awesomeness thematically, but one is ML 14 the other 18?

Gloves of Titans Grip and, say a ML 16 pair of gloves from Crystal Cove, same... Actually, Levik's Bracers are even better to show the problem, an ML 12 item (bracers) that give strength AND healing amp, vs. just strength (with double that in a 1 min clicky, but still...) and the diff is 6 levels?

So the real problem is ML. By the time you can finally use them, your competing against Amarath belts, rings and necklaces, against Green Steel, etc.

Best example, from PERSONAL experience. I was grinding for Terror daily, and every three days doing a Shrould run. I finished my Lit II before I got Terror. By then it was pointless (except Terror is bound to account, so I could pass it to a level 18 that doesn't have green steel I guess... But I'd probably just pass green steel ingredients to that toon at level 16 instead...)

So, does all this need fixing? Yes. But it needs lower ML, NOT making it epic. The quests are just too easy for that.

[Lost_Leader]

I don't see any need to change anything in these packs. They are easily farm-able, decent items. Very easy to upgrade. It will take you literally one evening of game time to farm the item you want and upgrade it. Maybe a week, if you are a casual gamer.

Sorry OP, but, in my opinion, this is no where near the caliber or the necessity of what sirgog is doing.

Oh, and they aren't epic.

[lethargos]

I have to question the OP about the seriousness of his proposals. Like it has been noted before, those packs have nothing tovwith Epics.

[sirgog]

The quests aren't epic. The quests are very easy. They're easier than Shroud and easier than Epics. The loot is BtA, you do not get timered, and you can level to 20 while running it.

I mostly see L&D on Casters that want DR. DR 8/epic is almost as good as what Monks, FvS, and Barbs get, and a blue slot means it could be slotted to have no ASF. Too high for a single item.

Dream Edge is a Kama. Kamas suck. Same problem that epic daggers have.

There should never be a one handed weapon with power store. That would totally render the Staff of the Petitioner obsolete. Death's Touch is an easy source for Gtr Necro Focus. Fine as is.

I don't really see any problem with the Dream loot. The Gloves are great, the Sickle is a nice source of +2 Necro, the Regalia is a boost to Meteor Swarm, L&D provides good AC and saves for TN characters... even Terror is good on Rusties and Oozes. I'm just not seeing the point of reworking this loot. More important to hit real epics first. Or Titan loot, or half of the ToD sets.

I largely agree with this.

Few of the Mindsunder items are even close to best-in-slot, although most are good for fresh 20s to use until they get better stuff.

Terror is the only one that stands out as awful, but even it is very strong when you run lower level content with it.

The only changes I'd support are a small upgrade to base damage on the worst weapons, a possible lowering of the min level to 16 (as you can easily beat Mindsunder, even on Elite, with a group of 16th level toons), and adding new sources of Ioun Stones somewhere. It's a tad silly that these endgame relevant items drop in lowbie Harbor quests, and not in, say, Elite In The Flesh (thematically appropriate) or something difficult (one of the Drow-based Epics would be a sensible place to have the Archmagi/Spell Pen 9 Ioun stone drop, and/or the Spell Absorb one).

If it wouldn't screw over the TR levelling curve, I'd suggest that these chains have their level dropped to 16 (Mindsunder 17, Dreaming Dark 19), as the quests are all of similar difficulty to the Vale walkups.

[Jitty]

agree with most of the posts above. The items that drop in these packs are pretty good overall. They aren't epic quests either in difficulty or length. Some minor tweeks may be good but there are items in other packs that need the attention a lot more.

[Dilbon]

Light and Darkness would do well with Aligned added to make it a DR breaker.

[xandariant]

Well the idea is to make those items epic cause they are "almost very good". Difficulty can be scaled and epics can be done. Or you can just add needing more epic tokens to make them (10 if you want), since even if those item can be now unsupressed "easily", they need a lot of that easy work to make them.
There are various ways to do it.
As for items - those should only change on unsupressed items. Base items are very good, and probably could use lvl 16 instead of 18th as suggested.

As for Shield, as an Intimitank (not true neutral unfortunately) i think there is a need for good dmg shield that can break DR, there is no shild like that in there, well most shields are awful. And shield bash is almost useless now.

Shiels users need something as do kama users, cause some ppl really like kamas and aside of Dream Edge that is "so so" at best there is nothing.
Game done give much epic docents for non wizards (Mabbar adn Chrono docents are nice but only caster items) for end game also, this packs have it all to make it worth something. Simply putting it melee WF's need a good docent.

[Dilbon]

You can always craft +4 holy mithral shield of EOB, but I'd rather use L&D if that broke DR.

[transtemporal]

As Qezuzu said, these quests are pretty easy. I personally think the loot that drops out of IQ is just about right for the level. I remember thinking it was pretty uber when it first came out.

If they were ever to make IQ epic, I would expect the epic versions to be only slightly better than the unsurpressed versions.

[xandariant]

As Qezuzu said, these quests are pretty easy. I personally think the loot that drops out of IQ is just about right for the level. I remember thinking it was pretty uber when it first came out.

When they came out, but for now they are mostly useless.
Making those quests epic might take some time, but I would gladly do it. They can just scale Dreaming darkness pack up so it will be difficult, not as easy as it is now cause Inspired Quarters pack is on good or even a bit lower difficulty.
I thought on an easy implementation using Dungeon Epic Tokens or Raid Epic Tokens inspired with the way Turbine added making Red Dragon Scale Armors. It is easy and good way. It costs a effort to make an item too.

Anyway some items like Kamas, Docent are just almost extinct cause there are just no good epic items of those kinds. Also there is no DR breaking shield in entire game and I think it is needed.

[AMDarkwolf]

really... read over your suggestions and I got this 'Lets make easy to get loot the best possible in the game' feeling.

Just ... No.

The items all are 'good' for those who use them/can use them, not over the top, but good.

And for he who said surpassed should be ML 16, i agree, that's about fair for what they are, 18 after u upgrade is fair too.

And terror.. wow.. at the very least, make the 'fearsome' effect(WHAT garbage, really what dev decided this would be desired by ANYONE who would use this weapon, REALLY?) gone, replace it with 'despair' that the mummies do in sands(Despaired mob stands in place unable to make a move, basically helpless without the 'added damage' - Truth is 'despair' is just a 'you are dancing' effect with a different animation)

[Ardalis]

Have to agree with most other posters in thread, IQ items are fine as is with the exception of Terror, the only use anyone has for terror when they can weild it is to beat up rusties and ooze's or farm lower level content to watch pretty phantasmal killer procs. Best first life 2 hander ingame at the moment is sadly 4 levels lower than terror and outshines it at every turn..insanity ftw.

[stille_nacht]

really this should be "my review of endgame (not epic) items" part 1.

IQ is not epic, and its difficulty is almost laughably low. Accordingly, none of the items should be best in slot or a contendor for best in slot. No tweaking really needed, as some of these are nifty, but not must haves, as they should be

[Cardtrick]

Yeah, this is just about the last content that needs a boost.

For such easy quests, there are some really fantastic items out of IQ. Really, everything but Terror is useful for at least some pre-epic-geared character types. Much of it serves as excellent transitional end-game gear. Titan's Grip, Elocator's Habiliment, Rahl's Might, and the Regalia all remain situationally useful even to fully-geared, capped players.

If you run these quests in PUGs at all, you'll find that nearly everyone you run with is looking for something different. That's a mark of really excellent item design.

[Zion_Halcyon]

I'm glad that you were so inspired by Sirgog as to attempt to mimic him, but you sir, are no sirgog.

Leave the Epic eval stuff to him.

[Cyr]

This is NOT an epic pack. Nor is it a difficult pack. I can't say I agree that an overall evaluation of this pack's loot is worthwhile. Terror is the only item that needs looking at in pack and that was said from day one of it's release.

[transtemporal]

When they came out, but for now they are mostly useless.

They are still useful at-level and the difficulty of the quests does not warrant making them epic. If they were to tweak the difficulty of the quests up a notch, then maaaybe that would warrant an upgrade of the items.