Tier 3 Lit 2 max damage?

[2x4]

Was in a quest and somone with Lit2 Tier 3 thought max damage was below 600.

I have seen 600+ lightining strikes often. In fact just hit with this (Combat): You hit Ogre for 614 points of electric damage.

I have seen much higher strikes. Does anyone know the max? has anyone hit the max?

[Fourfingers]

Might want to clarify - base damage - no modifiers due to caster bonuses.

I've actually seen around 1200 purple damage from a lightning strike - makes me wonder if I got a ss of it or not.

[KingOfCheese]

The damage is 100d10.

But the dice might be weighted--so not sure what the likely number is. In theory this could be 1000 damage--but with 100 rolls, the odds of that are astronomically small (near impossible). With 100 rolls, the distribution will be fairly tight around the average.

Personally, I typically see high 500s to low 600s.

Of course, if the enemy is lightning sensitive (naturally or air savant curse), you can see huge numbers--well into the 1000s.

[DrNuegebauer]

Personally, I typically see high 500s to low 600s.


Agreed. Seems all the strikes are in that range.

held mobs get 900+

[Junts]

About the highest I've seen without some kind of boost is about 640. In effect, the range is 550-650 though I'd say the mean is about 590.

[2x4]

Just got this strike so in the range of what you guys are saying. (Combat): You hit Skeleton for 638 points of electric damage.

To clarify this is the lightning strike on the green steel Lit2 weapon (crafted to tier 3)

[Gkar]

The damage is 100d10.

But the dice might be weighted--so not sure what the likely number is. In theory this could be 1000 damage--but with 100 rolls, the odds of that are astronomically small (near impossible). With 100 rolls, the distribution will be fairly tight around the average.

Personally, I typically see high 500s to low 600s.

Of course, if the enemy is lightning sensitive (naturally or air savant curse), you can see huge numbers--well into the 1000s.

That was just someone's guess, I don't think Turbine ever said that. And the dice are definately loaded as they cluster around 600 except on crits. I've never seen something below 400 or above 800 (except for crits/resistance/vulnerability)

I'd be more inclined to say its 20d10 +500 or something along those lines.

[2x4]

Just got this hit (Combat): You hit Ghast for 655 points of electric damage.

Highest so far

[zpfpzps]

deleted

[2x4]

New high (Combat): You hit Hobgoblin Cleric for 669 points of electric damage.

[Sparky21]

so if the most natural damage is 667 or more...if a mob is both held and weak vs lightning, it can do 2000+ damage in theory (not that it would matter on most enemies...usually when it procs they were gonna die anyway from base weapon damage lol.

i read somewhere that the max is 630, and thats the highest ive personally seen from a non-held, non weak vs lightning mob

[Natashaelle]

i read somewhere that the max is 630, and thats the highest ive personally seen from a non-held, non weak vs lightning mob

I sometimes proc 650-660 (never seen any 750 shown in that screeny above)

...

Of course if held mobs can be hit for ~900, held mobs with lightning vulnerability could be hit for about ~1800 --- I must admit to never having tested Lit II with any lightning-enhancement gear (which I believe does increase damage from this sort of item but I could be wrong) nor in the hands of an air savant (which might not) nor with maxed out wands & scolls enhancements and any potential etc... :)

[Shade]

Well for max dmg:

go to epic deeps. unwater combat = 200% lightning dmg.
take along a good air savant and dark monk.
Have sorc him hold some fish, then do his +15% weakness curse
Have a monk do his +10% weakness curse..
Think there additive.. so:
225% ls dmg.

Assumming max is 700:\
Non held: 1575
Held:
2363 LS =)

I think i got a SS of one doing 1250 laying around somewhere from epic deeps, pre u9.

[2x4]

New high damage in WW Elite (Combat): You hit Kobold Warrior for 650 points of electric damage.

[pal_sch]

That was just someone's guess, I don't think Turbine ever said that. And the dice are definately loaded as they cluster around 600 except on crits. I've never seen something below 400 or above 800 (except for crits/resistance/vulnerability)If it were 100d10 you probably wouldn't.

Using Wolfram Alpha to get the statistics (http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=100d10) for the rolls and roughly approximating things as a normal distribution (http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=normal+distribution%2C+mean+550%2C+sd+28.72%2C+ v+825) (assumes continuous variables but enough for vague speculation) you get a 99th percentile value of ~617 damage, so would only see higher than that 1% of the time. While 1000 would be possible, it would be insanely rare. The vast, vast majority of hits would be between 500 and 600. You would see a 600 or better 1 time in 24 (http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=600+or+higher+on+100d10), 650 or better 1 time in 3998 (http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=700+or+higher+on+100d10) and 700 or higher 1 time in 14,881,235 (http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=700+or+higher+on+100d10). A full 1000 strike would happen one time in 10^100, or 1 with 100 zeros after it. Same numbers going down the other side of the distribution.

[zpfpzps]

deleted

[Shade]

If it were 100d10 you probably wouldn't.

Using Wolfram Alpha to get the statistics (http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=100d10) for the rolls and roughly approximating things as a normal distribution (http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=normal+distribution%2C+mean+550%2C+sd+28.72%2C+ v+825) (assumes continuous variables but enough for vague speculation) you get a 99th percentile value of ~617 damage, so would only see higher than that 1% of the time. While 1000 would be possible, it would be insanely rare. The vast, vast majority of hits would be between 500 and 600. You would see a 600 or better 1 time in 24 (http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=600+or+higher+on+100d10), 650 or better 1 time in 3998 (http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=700+or+higher+on+100d10) and 700 or higher 1 time in 14,881,235 (http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=700+or+higher+on+100d10). A full 1000 strike would happen one time in 10^100, or 1 with 100 zeros after it. Same numbers going down the other side of the distribution.

1 person may not, but the entire community would.

Since no one has EVER reported doing under 500, or over 700 (vs standard 100% vuln, 0 resist).. The 10d100 idea is wrong. Community results trump your basic pobability math.

Plus ddo has never worked like that for anything. Any and all very wide dmg ranges from pnp, get tighted up in ddo as a rule... Nothing has such a huge variance.

[2x4]

Sorry about post saying 650 was max it was 669 before actually.

What I have been seeing over the last couple days are hits in high 500's an mid 600's.

The 600+ hits don't seem to be rare. It is looking like 580 to 620 is common.

Just got this hit (Combat): You hit Hobgoblin Slayer for 613 points of electric damage.
(Tangleroot on elite) (I'm favour farming something I neglected to do and am catching up on)

I'll try and post the 600+'s as they happen to see the frequency.

[2x4]

Just got this hit (Combat): You hit Worg for 628 points of electric damage.

[2x4]

Now this hit (Combat): You hit Hobgoblin Patrol Leader for 581 points of electric damage.

[2x4]

And now this hit (Combat): You hit Hobgoblin Slayer for 625 points of electric damage.

See what I mean about the range?

This is very typical.

I'll stop posting, live, as the pattern is coming through in these posts

[pal_sch]

1 person may not, but the entire community would.

Since no one has EVER reported doing under 500, or over 700 (vs standard 100% vuln, 0 resist).. The 10d100 idea is wrong. Community results trump your basic pobability math.

Plus ddo has never worked like that for anything. Any and all very wide dmg ranges from pnp, get tighted up in ddo as a rule... Nothing has such a huge variance.My whole point was that with such a large amount of dice (100d10) you wouldn't expect to see much outside a very tight bunching. I wouldn't actually expect the community to notice anything under 400 or over 700. Either of those would be a one in 14,000,000+ event. You would then have to have it be an unmodified strike - so no weaknesses or resistances - that the player notices and then reports. People are used to seeing higher or lower hits against held/vulnerable or resistant targets so I wouldn't be surprised if the outliers get ignored.

I wouldn't actually expect them to use that method in the back end simply because it would be computationally expensive (generate 100 random numbers and add them up...) so I'd guess they would approximate and likely simplify it somehow. But the numbers do fit the 100d10 distribution rather nicely from what I've seen.

[2x4]

Last 2 hits were 618 and 628 (averaging is 600+) in these samples

[Shade]

My whole point was that with such a large amount of dice (100d10) you wouldn't expect to see much outside a very tight bunching. I wouldn't actually expect the community to notice anything under 400 or over 700. Either of those would be a one in 14,000,000+ event. You would then have to have it be an unmodified strike - so no weaknesses or resistances - that the player notices and then reports. People are used to seeing higher or lower hits against held/vulnerable or resistant targets so I wouldn't be surprised if the outliers get ignored.

I wouldn't actually expect them to use that method in the back end simply because it would be computationally expensive (generate 100 random numbers and add them up...) so I'd guess they would approximate and likely simplify it somehow. But the numbers do fit the 100d10 distribution rather nicely from what I've seen.

you don't have much faith in the community then. Finding and reporting something that is a 1 in 14 million chance happens all the time in ddo.

Ever heard of the epic spell storing ring? think the shard drop rates a bit worse then that, but people get them =)

But yea thats some purposelt skewed number anyways, like i said, no ones shown under 500, not 400 as you say.. If you up the probabity results to 500, that 14 million chance gets a ton easier.

[Junts]

you don't have much faith in the community then. Finding and reporting something that is a 1 in 14 million chance happens all the time in ddo.

Ever heard of the epic spell storing ring? think the shard drop rates a bit worse then that, but people get them =)

But yea thats some purposelt skewed number anyways, like i said, no ones shown under 500, not 400 as you say.. If you up the probabity results to 500, that 14 million chance gets a ton easier.

Actually hes right, because of it being 100 dice, it would be really unlikely to ever see it vary all that much.

A lot of DDO players dont post on the forums, and honestly I would be surprised if the total number of lightning strike procs seen by people posting int this thread were even .01% of 14 million. It doesnt happen -that- often, you can't se every single one in the combat log (because the log is often significantly delayed from the actual event), and a variety of other factors.

I think you might not appreciate just how big a number those odds are.

It probably is a very slightly weighted die, but not nearly as much as other DDO dice. Think about how nonvariable the weighted 20d6 proc on greater shocking blow is - its nearly impossible to even see it go below 90 or over 110, and that's a lot less dice than are likely to be present in whatever lightning strike happens to deal.

People tend not to appreciate how much more consistently close to average something with more dice will be. That's also part of what makes the epic sos great: having 5 separate die rolls, it basically always does 14-20 damage and almost never goes higher or lower in its damage range. The consistency gain is exponential.

[dragonmane]

Does smite evil influence the numbers?

[Shade]

20d6 proc on greater shocking blow is - its nearly impossible to even see it go below 90 or over 110,

meh ye of little faith.

You really don't get it ? Why is it not hard to understand, turbine just makes up descriptions, then writes code to generate numbers in a much more fixes wya that just sorted matches it. Remember spells descriptions? Always used to say 1d6 per lvl, but they were infact always 1d3+3.

Don't have the epic charged gauntlets.. But regular ones aren't 10d6 either. They do exactly 50 to 62 damage. If they were 10d6.. 62 would be impossible. So im sure the same is true for the epic ones, they definetely aren't 20d6.

So no, nothing in ddo with big damage ranges just uses big dice, never has. They always limit the dice for whatever reason, perhaps to improve performanc and make things less random and more fun.

[2x4]

First strike this morning (Combat): You hit Black Widow for 645 points of electric damage.

(Elite Shan-To-Kor)

[2x4]

2nd strike of the day (Combat): You hit Hobgoblin Guard for 641 points of electric damage.

3rd strike (Combat): You hit Hobgoblin Guard for 610 points of electric damage.

4th strike (Combat): You hit Large Earth Elemental for 648 points of electric damage. (so far none under 600)

5th strike (Combat): You hit Hobgoblin Guard for 632 points of electric damage.

6th strike (Combat): You hit Hobgoblin Marksman for 655 points of electric damage.

[2x4]

Now finished Shan to Kor and didn't get any strikes under 600.

Next quest 3 hits were 611, 628 and 605. Still no hits under 600.

Proof is in Poison Elite - 5 hits two under 600. One 588 and this one (Combat): You hit Quickfoot Caster for 595 points of electric damage.

[Miahoo]

Actually hes right, because of it being 100 dice, it would be really unlikely to ever see it vary all that much.

He's not.

The point is not to see the BIG 1000 dmg. The point is to see any roll which > 700 or < 500 (no resists/helds, bla bla...). You'll find, statisticly, that u need much much much MUCH less than 100^10 rolls in order to get any of this numbers while rolling 100d10.
just /roll 100d10, I bet u'll see a "> 700 or < 500" number by the 20th try (I wanna say 10, but try and see).

[LookingForABentoBox]

Does smite evil influence the numbers?

I've never tested smite evil on lightning strike, the ability being discussed, but I have tested that it works on lightning burst and lightning blast. However, those are directly tied to critical damage of weapons, and lightning strike seems to be the same for all weapons of all crit abilities, so I'd venture to say it does not influence the numbers.


He's not.

The point is not to see the BIG 1000 dmg. The point is to see any roll which > 700 or < 500 (no resists/helds, bla bla...). You'll find, statisticly, that u need much much much MUCH less than 100^10 rolls in order to get any of this numbers while rolling 100d10.
just /roll 100d10, I bet u'll see a "> 700 or < 500" number by the 20th try (I wanna say 10, but try and see).

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/dice/dice.htm

try it.

Though anecdotally a mean value of 550 seems too low to be accurate, anyway.
edit: unless the dice aren't fair

[Miahoo]

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/dice/dice.htm

try it.

Though anecdotally a mean value of 550 seems too low to be accurate, anyway.
edit: unless the dice aren't fair

Nice stuff.
Out of ~300 clicks, I got plenty of 4xx's but none of > 700 (or < 400).
I do admit, that with some mods (aka 100d10 + 30) it'd result the numbers we know today by the LitII proc.

I guess I failed my statisticly sense.
I take it back until someone will come with more details.

[Aaxeyu]

Nice stuff.
Out of ~300 clicks, I got plenty of 4xx's but none of > 700 (or < 400).
I do admit, that with some mods (aka 100d10 + 30) it'd result the numbers we know today by the LitII proc.

I guess I failed my statisticly sense.
I take it back until someone will come with more details.

Getting a number below 500 is only 1 in 24 on 100d10, while getting a number that is either below 400 or above 700 is 1 in 7,440,000.

With a 2% proc rate that would require 372,000,000 attacks with a LS weapon.
You could look at average attack rates and estimate how many people use LS weapons an how much time they spend swinging them.

[KraahgDaAxe]

(Combat): You hit Hobgoblin Cleric for 951 points of electric damage.

Wasn't purple.

[Kinerd]

(Combat): You hit Hobgoblin Cleric for 951 points of electric damage.

Wasn't purple.But was it held/stunned, weakened to 0 Str, etc.?

[bkasavan]

Just for those arguing about the average, rolled a bunch of 100d10's and am posting the screenshot (["http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/651/100d10.jpg/").

[2x4]

I want to thank all who responded and I just wanted to report the following:


Since the live reports on the hits (from tier 3 LitII GS khopesh) I have been watching all my hits more closely. I am still working through elite quests for favour and I conclude the following:


Lightining hits below 600 are best categorized as uncommon.
Lightning hits above 650 are rare
Lightining hits bewteen 600 and 650 are common and usual
Thanks for the replies and please have as much fun as I do playing DDO

[Shade]

(Combat): You hit Hobgoblin Cleric for 951 points of electric damage.

Wasn't purple.

Helplesss +50 Dmg generally doesn't make for purple numbers. Just things like sorc debuff/monk punch do that.