Why did I wanted a crafting system

[raveman1000]

After reading a lot of posts on this forum, I can say that a lot of people are disappointed in the crafting system as it was created. In this post I want to put forward what I was expecting from crafting according to different point of view and what changes need to be made to meet my needs.

For a completionist wannabe (I’m aiming toward this): Crafting what you didn’t have time to make GS. Actual crafting partially meets my needs.

Having to go through all classes means having a wide array of equipments and weapons. Of course I would like to have GS for all my needs but in order to reach completionist, you can’t spend that much time at level 20 grinding for the ingredients you need to craft dozens of items/weapons you would need to equip 11 classes. I found that crafting can help me quite a lot here. I can make nice DR breaker weapons for any of the style I want to play (khopesh, rapier, maul, falchion, staff, etc…). I can also easily craft a casting enhancement item for any of my caster/healer. The only downside is the ML that is higher than random loot. It’s hard to craft an item that can compete against +1 “elemental” of “pure good” ML 5, the crafted item being ML 6 I believe. Plus you can add an icy burst on the random ML 5 but not on crafted item.

Suggested change to meet my need: lower the ML of bound to account items to match randomly generated loot. Once the unbound crafting gets out, make sure the ML is HIGHER than randomly generated loot. Optionally allow Risia crafting on top of Cannith crafted items. Another cool thing would be to get some crafting bonuses for some past life. For example, wizard past life could give a passive 5% success rate boost on arcane crafting.

[raveman1000]

For a powergamer: Crafting a unique item that you can’t find ingame. Actual crafting partially meet my needs.

At level 20 the only thing you’re looking at is improving your loot to get always more powerful. Crafting can help a little bit with the nice DR breakers you can craft: +4 holy silver of EOB or +4 holy cold iron of COG are both good examples. Given that those can be found ingame in random loot, the only thing you gain is the time it would have taken you to find them in a chest or on the AH. On the other hand, we’ll eventually be able to craft +5 holy silver of GEOB and the demon version thanks to the +12 potential shard, both of which can’t be found ingame because of a ML higher than 20. This option will let powergamer make great weapons and items that can be better than GS in some situations, GS being better in most cases.

Suggested change to meet my need: Make a shard of superior potential that would cost an insane amount of resource and would require the highest possible crafting level in order to put a second suffix or prefix on an item/weapon. Raise the potential shard to something higher than +12. Those changes would allow to make incredibly powerful weapons that could match GS. Given the time it takes to level to those high crafting level, I don’t think it would be too unbalanced as long as it remains BTA.

[raveman1000]

For a Newb… we were all one at some point :) : Crafting something to help you level up until you can make GS. Actual crafting doesn’t help at all.

Because of the whole ML issue, a newb is much better served by looting and buying on AH instead of crafting. Even if the newb had enough ingredients to level his crafting and make what he wanted, randomly droped items would still be better.

Suggested change to meet my need: lower the ML of bound to account items to match randomly generated loot (or even be lower). Once the unbound crafting gets out, make sure the ML is HIGHER than randomly generated loot. Optionally allow Risia crafting on top of Cannith crafted items.

[raveman1000]

For a business owner… aka Turbine: Make money by selling stuff on the DDO store and implement a system that drains money out of the system. Actual crafting meet their needs.

By including DDO bought success booster and crafting xp potions, I’m sure turbine will make some more money. Also, having shard be BTA forces people to get a shared bank to move their stuff around. People probably would like more inventory, bag and bank space to store all the crafted loot and the ingredients needed to make them…more money for them. This system is also great at regulating the money that flows in and out of the game. Nowadays a lot of people are deconstructing items instead of vendoring them, meaning that there’s less money ingame. Also people are buying more stuff on the AH since we want to acquire a lot of items to deconstruct them… so more money is flowing out of the game due to the “infamous” AH cut . So I think the system patches a problem that was in the game before: there was no way to spend those plats besides paying millions for an item you could farm yourself.

Would the change I suggested change the Turbine cashflow? ..... more to come

[raveman1000]

I invite you now to tell us what you expected from crafting and what needs to be done to meet your needs.

[cdemeritt]

This system is good in my opinion... my only disappointment in it is that, at least at the moment, you can only craft certain effects to certain items.... I don't know why someone would want a Underwater action Bastard sword of swimming +15, but being able to craft one would be good if that's what you want.

I've always been bothered by how there are some item slots that have 5/6 effects I really want, and that there are some item slots that are ho-hum effects at best (at least until very high levels)... Every toon/class I've rolled has been like this. I was hoping the crafting system would change this, but so far no.

Example: My capped fighter has a open cloak slot (has a couple options for future, but nothing spectacular yet), I would like to craft a Deathblock cloak of heavy fortification... (a very common robe/outfit) but cannot at this time. still holding out hope that there will be some changes in the future release that allows my to make said cloak. (even if it costs devil scales)

[Flavilandile]

/kobold voice on

Crafting ? Really ? Really...

/kobold voice off.

No way it is near a real crafting system.

For that you'd have to be able to get raw ressources out of the landscape ( wood from trees, stones/ore from cliffs, sand from beaches, random loot out of dead mob depending on what they were carrying, and so on )

Then you'd have to be able to transform the raw ressources into usable material for crafting ( planks and other things from wood, glass from sand, metal from ore, whatever you found on the bodies that was not magical into crafting material [say the club the troll carries around into wood things] )

From the crafting material then you get to create non magical items.

That's the easy part. And everybody should be able to do it.

Now in D&D rules there's a few feats that are linked to making magical items, but they are not really applicable to crafting in an MMO. The best bet is to make it available to anybody with magical ability, and limit what he can craft to that magical ability. ( Arcane for elemental thingies for exemple, and Divine for Holy/True Law/Pure Good stuff )
But that will make all the non spellcaster unhappy ( well I know in DDO the point is moot, everybody has several characters but anyway you have to consider the thing).
So you have to come up with a solution for everybody to do the crafting.
So the next best bet is to make something with a crafting level and ability that is not correlated to the character level and his own character abilities... that's what has been implemented... poorly.

Why poorly ?

Because it assumes that everything crafted is magical by default, it bypass completely the non magical part of the crafting. ( ok, everybody what a +5 whatever of GEOB, but that doesn't mean that everybody wants to craft one )
Because it assumes that crafting is just recycling ( deconstructing loot to get essence to make shards to make the new items )
Because it assumes that people will spend time leveling characters... come on be serious... Everybody is going to spend the time for 1 character to level that will craft for all the roster.
Because it wastes a lot of time in fluffy things like animations on the various altars... seriously, if you craft like me,
I do that while eating dinner or browsing the web, because it's such a timewaster.
Because it doesn't give the full list of what is possible and what is not possible. ( come on, for example, if a Seeker +6 is available on a named trinket, it should be craftable eventually as a very high level recipe, with a fair chance of failure, any named, unnamed item should be craftable eventually. )
Because it adds yet another fully unrelated set of collectable and things to craft to an already cluttered and totally messy pseudo-crafting system. ( Greensteel, Lordsmarch, Sentinels, Dreamforge, Epic, ... )

Anyway, I know I wont get a real full fledged crafting in DDO, the already existings systems ( and with the forthcoming xoriat one it won't help ) are there and building a real full fledged crafting system would means that they'd have to throw all that through the window. ( because they would mostly be redundant )

[Vellrad]

I'm dissapointed by this crafting thing.
I don't need to have all effects in 1 uber item.
I want to make a goddamned consumables.

[Ungood]

I think the jacking up of the ML for crafted items was a mistake, now it can't be used to outfit your alts as a viable alternative to dropped loot, which is what I was hoping it would be.

*Sad Panda*

[FrancisP.Fancypants]

No way it is near a real crafting system.

For that you'd have to be able to get raw ressources out of the landscape ( wood from trees, stones/ore from cliffs, sand from beaches, random loot out of dead mob depending on what they were carrying, and so on )

Then you'd have to be able to transform the raw ressources into usable material for crafting ( planks and other things from wood, glass from sand, metal from ore, whatever you found on the bodies that was not magical into crafting material [say the club the troll carries around into wood things] )


So the current crafting business isn't enough of a time waster, eh? ;)

I've said it before- in the time it would take to craft something worthwhile, chances are I can find one running quests (which also has the added bonus of XP and is way more fun). Maybe it'll change down the road and I can make something more useful than what I can pull, or I just might wind up needing something basic in an unusual slot, but until then I'm just gonna sit on my essences.

[Missing_Minds]

For me, crafting in this game and what I wanted.

The ability to put any normally randomly generated ability to be applied to any weapon, armor, or item as I so saw fit.

I did not expect to see vampirism, blood rage, etc. as possibilities. Special abilities from named items should have remained out of the tables.

if I wanted to make a cha belt, I could. Cha bracers? again yes. A cha sword? no. Shatter on armor or a ring? No.

[Hafeal]

Well, having played around with the system a bit, but only having reached the teens in my crafting levels, I will conditionally say that the crafting system seems to hit the sweet spot of boredom and uselessness.

1) Casual gamers - do you want plat (selling items) or a near endless grind to actually get to a crafting level that makes the grind for the time worth something? Also known as "Oh, who wants to quest anyway?" Seriously, if you are casual, pass. Well, really, you need to otherwise you'll never get real xp.

2) Regular gamer - yeah, you hurt the most. You can see what you want to make and, if you concentrate, can actually get it done over months or a year. *sigh* Do you really want to commit your entertainment time to do that though? As a dynamic MMO, of which one of its major selling point is its combat system, you'd rather be talking to your friends and wacking kobolds. I mean a crafting 'party' is so Tupperware - you don't need to go online to do it.

3) Power gamers - ok, you can craft whatever you want with your already capped crafter. But really, why bother? Besides novelty or helping, ooops, it's all bound, do you really need it? You already know the game in and out and can complete end content and epics in your sleep. In any event, you have what you want, you have plenty of plat and you'll just buy it if you don't. Given your heavy play time, chances are you'll pull what you can craft anyway and the real stuff of value to you can't be crafted.

It just seems to me, that the crafting system has no good intended audience. In an attempt to make all the people happy, it just misses. I feel that system ended up being something other than what was intended or what Fernando stated it was going to be. My only guess is that at some point you'll buy all your major crafting stuff from the DDO Store to do your shortcuts - just like every itune game app seemingly. :(

[salmag]

For my characters, I really wanted Crafting Feats to be added...

I know this disappoints the melees that feel they deserve to have the ability to make something magical :rolleyes:, but I digress...

Some changes I would have liked to see:

We should be able to make consumables. I am really disappointed with the whole "not being able to make potions, wands, scrolls" thing.

Special abilities, as Missing_Minds stated, should ONLY be in the loot tables.

Stat increases and skill increases should NEVER be tied to weapons (only to armor/items). And this is where Greensteel is flawed and becomes overpowered.

I should be more simple and not so time-consuming... A +3 anarchic long sword of vermin bane should be deconstructed to a (craftable) +3 longsword, or a masterwork anarchic longsword or a masterwork longsword of vermin bane; then, other affects could be placed on it. The stripped affects would be converted into materials.

Materials should only have one version, not "lesser" or "greater" versions. Just increase the amount/number of "said" material involved in crafting the item. The higher the level, the more materials needed.

just my 2cps.

[Raoull]

For at least one purpose, crafting is king.

Superior Brilliance V items do not drop. You only see Brilliance up to lvl 3 as a random item. Divine Punishment, a hugely important new spell, is a lvl 5 light spell.

I think tons of divines will grind their divine crafting levels up to the low 20s for this purpose, and then stop. That's my plan anyway. As a side effect, I'll be able to craft a few other useful things... and I might even do that. Might not though.... I'm a bit soured after I couldn't deconstruct a returning silver shuriken I bought off of the AH...

[PNellesen]

I invite you now to tell us what you expected from crafting and what needs to be done to meet your needs.

I expected to be able to take a randomly generated item (weapon, gear, etc.) and add a desired prefix, suffix, or +X to it, without losing any attribute, prefix, or suffix the item previously possessed. AFAIK that is not possible.

I would have no problems with the current system (as I understand it; I haven't played with it much at all) if they kept everything the same, but allowed the purchase/creation of some kind of ingredient that would allow for adding to an item without starting with a "blank" item.

[Emili]

For my characters, I really wanted Crafting Feats to be added...

I know this disappoints the melees that feel they deserve to have the ability to make something magical :rolleyes:, but I digress...

Some changes I would have liked to see:

We should be able to make consumables. I am really disappointed with the whole "not being able to make potions, wands, scrolls" thing.

Special abilities, as Missing_Minds stated, should ONLY be in the loot tables.

Stat increases and skill increases should NEVER be tied to weapons (only to armor/items). And this is where Greensteel is flawed and becomes overpowered.

I should be more simple and not so time-consuming... A +3 anarchic long sword of vermin bane should be deconstructed to a (craftable) +3 longsword, or a masterwork anarchic longsword or a masterwork longsword of vermin bane; then, other affects could be placed on it. The stripped affects would be converted into materials.

Materials should only have one version, not "lesser" or "greater" versions. Just increase the amount/number of "said" material involved in crafting the item. The higher the level, the more materials needed.

just my 2cps.
They could still had added feat or skill to any character by way of artisan skills ... i.e. a melee could train sword smithing to ultimately masterwork items to be magic'd by an arcane or divine. This is how it is done in DnD. Master craftsmen are not something your DM should just hand over to you to make that belt or that armour in any campaign and prices reflect income... the base pricing of items in all campaigns become inflated with higher magic and pure devalue of the currency.

[Vellrad]

I just tried this crafting thing, fact that all items are btc is making whole thing pointless- you have to spend long hours and lots of plats to get level needed for crafting the only item you need. If items were bta, you could just make 1 character for crafting for whole account, like with banking characters, and just spend that 10-20 hours to get decent crafting level, and equip all your toons with some gear.

Edit: I just realized that only items and some shards are btc, most shards are bta. Still, bugs like getting btc shard instead of bta can be very annoying.

[salmag]

They could still had added feat or skill to any character by way of artisan skills ... i.e. a melee could train sword smithing to ultimately masterwork items to be magic'd by an arcane or divine. This is how it is done in DnD. Master craftsmen are not something your DM should just hand over to you to make that belt or that armour in any campaign and prices reflect income... the base pricing of items in all campaigns become inflated with higher magic and pure devalue of the currency.



I agree.

[Aelonwy]

1. Ability to craft useful armor with attractive appearance. (Hit and Miss, I have the appearances I want but the ML increase makes less useful.)

2. Ability to craft useful accessories (clothing and jewelry) that have the same abilities as random loot but perhaps in unconventional slots, ie heavy fort on bracers or con on cloak. (Hit and Miss, I have the random loot abilities but not the flexibility of slots.)

3A. Ability to craft useful weapons. (Mostly Hit but also some Miss, there are some useful applications but the increase to ML definitely affects the overall utility of the weapon such that by the time you can equip the item it may no longer be useful to the level of the quest series for which you wanted it. For the most part you're way better off scouring the AH for the perfect weapon or doing loot runs for named wpns.)

3B. Specifically wanted to craft a Greater Aberration Bane returning throwing wpn for killing rusties at a distance, and a Greater OOze Bane glass Greatclub. (Hit and Miss I just learned that due to a bug you can only craft returning throwing weapons from random generated ones that already have some enchantment like deception or elemenatl damage. However, the current crafting system requires a random loot gen item of proper base material as a crafting blank so no random glass weapons.)

4. I wanted the ability to name my crafted items. (Total Miss but it was just wishful thinking anyway. My greater Ooze Bane Glass Great club would have been named Destruct-O-Muck!)

[brian14]

For a business owner… aka Turbine: Make money by selling stuff on the DDO store and implement a system that drains money out of the system.
I recall that after certain anniversary event not long ago... had something to do with pirates... and dowsing... an awful lot of PLAYERS were asking for a system that drains money out of the system. Phrase "we need plat sink!" was tossed around a lot.

Looks like they got what they wanted.

[brian14]

if I wanted to make a cha belt, I could. Cha bracers? again yes. A cha sword? no. Shatter on armor or a ring? No.
You do realize that you CAN make a cha sword now? A greensteel one.

And it is not so insane -- I plan to make one for my bard.