Hate tanking and Diplomacy

[Nospheratus]

When the changes to the social skills were revealed I recall reading what Eladrin wrote about diplomacy and having the feeling that it would have a passive modifier to the hate generation.

I'm not sure what, but I do feel something has changed. Before U9 I used to hate tank Horroth with S&B only, no intimidate. I have done this a lot of times and I never ever lost agro!

The toon is the same and now it has happened twice already (losing agro), even using intimidate when I can to increase the hate generation for those 6 seconds.

He has no ranks in diplomacy, but with all the equipment and buffs it gets high...
10 CHA
15 Item (cloak of the silver concord)
6 GS Item
4 GH
2 Coin lords 400 favor reward
-------
37 - at least...

Could this be what has an effect on the hate generated? Has anyone else noticed this effect?

[theboatman]

Without more knowledge of the character in use, I will make some assumptions based on the fact that you state you use both a shield and intimidate:

I would hazard a guess that it might somehow involve the known issue "Stalwart Defender is not generating the appropriate amount of hate" http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=1755313&postcount=1

*edit* please also note that if using a weapon and shield when intimidating, the duration goes from 6 seconds to 10, and the threat modifier from 50% to 100%

[Nospheratus]

It's not a stalwart defender, it's a Defender of Siberys. I wonder if it's broken for DoS as well?

[theboatman]

Well, if you are a DoS it's kind of a moot point if you use Divine Righteousness, since it does not stack with the stance (it in fact overrides, since it is a bigger boost.)

Thats the only thing that came to mind off the top of my head, unless the group dynamics of the dps in your tod raids has changed as well.

[Nospheratus]

I don't use divine righteousness.

The bonuses I have when tanking are:
+15% DoS set
+50% DoS stance

I have two item setups for this:
- DT armor with Incite +10% +15% +20% (the +15% may not stack with the DoS set, I'm not sure)
-Cavalry plate for more AC

I have lost agro with either in both runs I did after U9. Before U9 I have never ever (really) lost agro when using that DT armor even when people don't give me more than the time to drag Horroth to a corner.

Hence my assumption that something changed...

Either the stance, the diplomacy skill now has a passive effect(??) or I was really unlucky and in both runs there was someone with a lot of hate increasing equipment/enhancements turned on... I find this last one hard to believe because I have over 30 runs pre-U9...

[theboatman]

Ah, clears a few things up.

First, the hate amp from any gear will not stack with an identical number from another source, so the 15% from the tod set does not stack with the 15% from your dt.

Second, my gut instinct is that the DoS stance bonus is not on the known list, but suffers from the same problems that the Stalwart Defender stance does; many paladins may simply use Divine Righteousness and not notice the problem, I would suggest a detailed bug report.

I can anecdotally state that I had an issue tanking horoth on my Fighter defender right after update nine, (at least that was the first time I lost aggro) but have had much fewer issues with he and Suulo after liberally applying intimidate subsequently. I did notice issues in an elite VoD pug the other day with the Air Sorc and Sally's teleports, but then again he was actively trying to get his attention... :P

[Nospheratus]

Ah, clears a few things up.

First, the hate amp from any gear will not stack with an identical number from another source, so the 15% from the tod set does not stack with the 15% from your dt.

Second, my gut instinct is that the DoS stance bonus is not on the known list, but suffers from the same problems that the Stalwart Defender stance does; many paladins may simply use Divine Righteousness and not notice the problem, I would suggest a detailed bug report.

I can anecdotally state that I had an issue tanking horoth on my Fighter defender right after update nine, (at least that was the first time I lost aggro) but have had much fewer issues with he and Suulo after liberally applying intimidate subsequently. I did notice issues in an elite VoD pug the other day with the Air Sorc and Sally's teleports, but then again he was actively trying to get his attention... :P

I'll try divine righteousness on the next run. Hopefully it will work and avoid these issues. Thanks for the comments! :)