Feedback: Sorcerer 101 (Work in Progress)

[FordyTwo]

Hello all!

We took the community feedback from Melee 101 and went back to the drawing board on newbie class guides for DDO. The result is creating class-specific 101 guides instead of "style-encompassing" 101 guides. Another part of making these new 101 class guides is that we'd love to have your feedback early!

The purpose of this thread is to have a constructive discussion on a preview of the ability scores, feats and skills suggested in Sorcerer 101. Please feel free to give your tips, tricks or suggestions on how you feel the guide could be improved -- but remember, this is a "101" guide for newbie players who might be feeling lost.

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Edited: Added feedback from Schmoe, karl_k0ch, DemonMage, and Cauthey. Thanks! :)

Sorcerer 101 (Work in Progress)

==Every New Sorcerer Should Know …==

• A sorcerer's Charisma (CHA) score directly affects the strength of their spells, the Difficulty Check (DC) an enemy target must overcome, and the maximum amount of available Spell Points (SP).

• There is no single "best" race option for a sorcerer; it all comes down to personal preference. Humans are a solid choice for their level 1 feat bonus, and for the bonus CHA from Human Adaptability, an Enhancement. Conversely, warforged are popular because they can self-heal using sorcerer repair spells, and benefit from a higher Constitution (CON) -- but warforged also have lower CHA. Drow have higher innate CHA, but lower innate CON, making them strong-yet-more-fragile sorcerers.

• Train 1 rank (not ".5" -- 1.0) into the Tumble skill at character creation. In DDO, a player cannot use Tumble without training, and tumbling away from ranged attacks is a useful skill to have.

==Ability Scores==

• STR - More often than not, Strength (STR) isn't useful for sorcerers -- who fight with spells, not by swinging weapons. However, STR does affect how much loot a character can carry before becoming encumbered (i.e. slower movement); consider 10 STR if this concerns you.

• DEX - Dexterity (DEX) improves Armor Class (AC), which helps defend against physical/weapon attacks, and Reflex Saves, one of three basic Saving Throws used to avoid many spells and traps. Note: investing into DEX for a boost to AC is generally a fruitless pursuit for sorcerers.

• CON - Every character in DDO should have a solid Constitution (CON) score. A higher CON translates into more Hit Points, and a higher Fortitude Save, which results in some bonus to spell defense. It's recommended new players have 14 CON; if you feel particularly confident in being able to avoid all dangers, forever, try 12 CON.

• INT - As with all classes, Intelligence (INT) affects a sorcerer's available skill points. With a high INT, more skills can be raised, but it's generally recommended to boost Intelligence no higher than 12 unless you really feel like more skill points are important to your character build.

• WIS - A sorcerer's Spot skill and Will Save tie directly into Wisdom (WIS). While a high WIS isn't useless, few sorcerers have a score higher than 12 because Will Save can be increased by taking the Force of Personality feat.

• CHA - A sorcerer's Charisma (CHA) is their bread-and-butter score. A higher Charisma allows more max Spell Point totals and nastier DCs for the spells you cast. The great majority of sorcerers start with 18 or 20 Charisma. (20 is only available to drow and 16 is the maximum available to warforged.)

==Feats==

Often times, new players are eager to jump into DDO right away, and that's perfectly understandable. However, an essential component of successful adventuring in DDO is planning out a character's feats. At max level (20) a sorcerer will have 7 Feats total. (Note: humans have 8.) Because there are only 7 (or 8) feats to work with, feat planning doesn't take long!

Here's an example feat selection that's perfect for a new player who wants a human sorcerer good at offensive spell casting (i.e. damage-dealing evocation spells) -- otherwise known as an Evocation Sorcerer:

• Level 1) Toughness - Increases Hit Points (HP) at first level and provides additional HP for each new level, allows a player to take the Racial Toughness Enhancement.

• Level 1) Empower Spell - While this metamagic feat is active, spells do 50% more damage but consume 15 additional Spell Points (SP).

• Level 3) Maximize Spell - While this metamagic feat is active, damage spells deal double damage but consume 25 additional SP.

• Level 6) Spell Focus: Evocation - Your spells of one school of magic (Evocation) are harder to resist and break through enemy spell defenses more easily.

• Level 9) Heighten Spell - While this metamagic feat is active your spells are raised to the highest spell level your character can cast, making them more difficult to resist but increasing their spell point cost.

• Level 12) Greater Spell Focus - Your spells of one school of magic are even harder to resist; this stacks with the bonus from Spell Focus.

• Level 15) Spell Penetration - Adds +2 to your caster level check for defeating spell resistance, making it easier to attack tougher opponents.

• Level 18) Greater Spell Penetration - Adds +2 to your caster level check for defeating spell resistance, further improving the ease with which your spells strike tougher opponents (in addition to the Spell Penetration feat).


If some of the above feats aren't to your liking, consider replacing them with any of these sorcerer-friendly feats:

• Extend Spell - With this metamagic feat active, spells with durations last twice as long but consume 10 additional SP

• Force of Personality - Add your CHA modifier to your Will Saves instead of your WIS modifier, making it tougher for several spell-types to harm your sorcerer.

• Enlarge Spell - With this metamagic feat active, spells have twice the range but consume 10 additional SP.

• Quicken Spell - With this metamagic feat active, spells cast twice as fast and cannot be interrupted by enemy attacks, but consume 10 additional SP.

• Mental Toughness - Increases your maximum available SP. Note that sorcerers already have the highest pool of SP in DDO.

• Improved Mental Toughness – Further increases your maximum available SP.

==Skills==

Planning out skills selection can be useful as well, but getting the basics of a standard sorcerer aren't too difficult.

Here are some solid skills to keep maxed out while leveling a sorcerer:

• Concentration – An incredibly useful skill for sorcerers! In DDO, sorcerers rely on Concentration when spell casting and taking damage from enemy attacks. When a sorcerer is damaged while casting, a Concentration check occurs – failure results in their SP being wasted while the spell fizzles out. A higher Concentration skill improves chances to succeed, so keep Concentration maxed out at all levels.

• Diplomacy – Also a very handy skill. Have you enraged a nasty enemy with your Magic Missiles or stumbled onto a deadly, sneaking foe? When used, Diplomacy may cause that enemy to decide to go after another member in your party. Crisis averted!

• Use Magic Device (UMD) – This skill allows a sorcerer the use of equipment designed for another race, or even moral alignment. UMD also allows the use of scrolls and wands normally wielded by divine classes such as clerics and paladins, opening up opportunities for a sorcerer to self-heal with divine scrolls and wands.

• Balance – Characters get knocked down by many types of attacks – both physical and magical – in DDO. With Balance, a character regains their footing more quickly after a knockdown. Avoiding a knockdown requires either decent STR or DEX, and because a sorcerer doesn’t typically invest in either STR or DEX scores, the faster recovery-time offered by Balance is invaluable.

Here are a couple optional skills that, depending on personal play style, can be useful:

• Bluff – With Bluff, a character may convince some non-player characters (NPCs) to give extra information on a quest or do something specific. Bluff also works like Diplomacy in convincing monsters to attack someone else, and unlike Diplomacy it can be used while playing solo; however, Bluff only works on one target at a time (compared to Diplomacy, which can affect multiple creatures at once.) With a sorcerer's high CHA only a few skill ranks are really needed.

• Haggle - Improve the price of items sold to NPCs and lower the cost of items bought from NPCs.

• Spot - See hidden enemies before they appear and begin attacking. A few points in Spot may make the difference between not seeing hidden enemies and seeing most of them.

[Schmoe]

You should mention that dwarves and half-orcs make poor sorcerers because of the CHA penalty.

[karl_k0ch]

Great idea to call it WiP and allow the community to participate. :)

I like the 14 Con - 12 Con statement.


At max level (20) a character will have 7 Feats total.
Level 20 Pure Sorcerer, that is. Splashing Fighter or Monk will give more of that.

Maybe mention that a sorcerer's UMD score will greatly benefit from their high Charisma.


Spot - See hidden enemies before they appear and begin attacking. A few points in Spot may make the difference between not seeing hidden enemies and seeing most of them.

Iirc, the Spot DCs are rather high - a rogue with maxed Spot noticed a difference with and without Tharne's goggles, if I recall the anecdote correctly. (Edit: Note that I am not referring to Trap DCs here, but to spotting hidden mobs DCs.)

[DemonMage]

While reflex saves are nice and all, a high dexterity on a sorcerer is seldom very useful, you generally don't have the points to raise it. And while mentioning that dex has an effect on Armor Class is fine, it should probably be noted that raising AC on a sorcerer is not really viable.

Also do not recommend Eschew Materials, period. Using a feat slot to save on the cheap vendor bought components (it won't even save on the more expensive ones) is not something you should be suggesting as a viable choice. You mention Force of Personality earlier, but don't mention it here, that would be a way better option than Eschew. Or than either Mental Toughness feats. Sorcerer SP is rarely a problem, especially later on.

Other than that, it looks a lot better than the melee one from what I remember.

[Cauthey]

While you're right about Strength not being useful in spell casting, it might be worthwhile to add a consideration about not COMPLETELY dump-statting it. I have a guildie that regrets not putting a couple of points into Strength just to minimize encumberance issues. When you're really piling up the loot in your pack, Sorcerer's that need to be light on their feet to avoid melee can get slowed down with a heavy backpack.

[DemonMage]

You may also wish to note that Spell Focus Evocation or Conjuration is required for the Sorcerer's Savant PrE lines, so that swapping that out for something else, even if it appears a lackluster feat at first, isn't a good idea.

[Schmoe]

On a more thorough review, I think this is a pretty solid start. I agree with everything DemonMage said:

1. Eschew Materials is not worth a feat and should not be recommended
2. Force of Personality is a good option that deserves mention in feat choices
3. If you discuss the Mental Toughness feats, you should mention that sorcerers get the most spell points in the game and rarely need to spend feats on Mental Toughness.
4. You can suggest bumping Dexterity for the Reflex saves, but make sure to say that pursuing AC is something that most sorcerers can't do and new players shouldn't bump Dex with AC in mind.

[Danmor]

Are you planning on gear suggestions as well? Because the double sp from items thing still causes a lot of confusion with newbies.
Especially if you start splashing other classes. Maybe mention something like that? As well as pointing out that in general deep multiclassing on casters is not the best idea.

[Cam_Neely]

If turbine is willing to lay out a build in a 101 post, why are the premade builds in DDO [not good]? I think this is one of the biggest turn offs to new players. Its one of the first things they see when entering the game, and almost with fail, its a very bad build that causes players to either reroll, or look for a new game.




• Train 1 rank (not ".5" -- 1.0) into the Tumble skill at character creation. In DDO, a player cannot use Tumble without training, and tumbling away from ranged attacks is a useful skill to have.



This should really be in the basic 101 posting, its not Sorcerer specific

[Shade]

Iirc, the Spot DCs are rather high - a rogue with maxed Spot noticed a difference with and without Tharne's goggles, if I recall the anecdote correctly.

They are for traps, not spotting hidden enemies - which is what youd want as a sorcerer, being you cannot even target a hidden enemy to say kill him wiht fod anymore.

Any good build that has some spare skill points should be putting them in spot.

Pretty much 8 wisdom, cross class ranks and a item will spot every enemy in the game. Generally don't even need the best item for your leve either, just a close one.

On the guide:
The first/recommended build is poor becauses it calls itself a good nuke build, yet then adds feats that have no effect on nukning (spell penetration, which are decent feats - but best put on a build more focused in enchantment or necromancy)
I'd recommend changing them to:
1) Evocation focus, Toughnes (being lvl1 spells cost 4SP and your SP pool is small, it is just incredibly ineffective to use max/emp at this lvl, so might as well take advantage of the extra DC early on.. Even on my triple tr sorc with full twink gear and tons of sp I took max/emp and found putting either on was always a bad idea at this lvl. For a new player , it would only be worse.
3) Maximize
6) Extend - If as a sorc you can at least cast extended haste/resists/displace/rage/etc.. No matter how poorly you casts, you will be a valuable party member, so this - even after the nerf - is a CRITICAL feat for any new sorcerer. New players simply won't have the SP/experience needed to keep a party fully buffed an entire quest without it.
9) Empower
12) Heighten
15) Greater spell focus
18) Quicken or Spell focus enchantment (held mobs take 50% extra damage from spells)

Stats:
As other have said, dex = dump stat.. Because 1) Theres simply not enough points to get it at a nice lvl. 2) You can survive nasty reflex save spells by using defensive buffs such as fireshield/jump/gh instead of reflex.

Strength - Need to note that every character should have SOME strength, even a pure caster sorcerer. As it effects too many things to dump:
Carrying capacity - a major concern for anyone who wants to pick up any loot. 8 str just doesn't cut it and really slows you down.
Not getting helpless - A common low lvl debuff is ray of enfeeblement, which does 1d6+5 str dmg.. So 8 str + say 1/2 from an item youd have at low lvl, is not enough to prevent you instantly becoming helpless. (especially common in tangleroot)
Getting tripped - again tons of enemies at low lvl trip (again especially tangleroot, but even as early as the waterworks has some wolves with improved trip)

So I'd recommend a minimum of 10 str, and say 12 str would be nice to have.

[FordyTwo]

This should really be in the basic 101 posting, its not Sorcerer specific

Good call! Done (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Character_Stats_101). :)

Edited: I've updated the guide, and will be looking over it again based on additional feedback.

[Cam_Neely]

If turbine is willing to lay out a build in a 101 post, why are the premade builds in DDO [not good]?

not sure why **** (yes it was 4x asterisks in the post) needed to be replaced with '[not good]'. 'not good' does not come close to describing my first premade build.

Thanks 42. I think that the [insert class] 101s should be specific to the build while the general 101s should have these all encompassing details. Makes it easier and cleaner to read.

[GotSomeQuestions]

While the "14 Constitution" recommendation is great, I would suggest changing it to "at least 14 Constitution." No reason to discourage people from putting a 16, or even an 18 in such an important stat. Sorcerers (and Wizards) only gain a base of 4 hit points per level, that is the lowest in the game. But with a high Con, you can compensate for that.

Also, one of the important choices a player will have to make when starting their first sorcerer is choosing their two 1st level spells. I would briefly address this. You don't have to discuss the pros and cons of specific spells, but a really basic suggestion like "make sure to take at least one spell that can do damage to enemies" couldn't hurt.

[Asketes]

starting to look really good Fordytwo!

+1


I would honestly say that for this guide, it should advocate a 16 starting con, it still allows some extra build points as well instead of maxing con. (14 for drow)

[stainer]

It might also be helpful to point out getting a nice UMD skill score is achievable due to high charisma sorcs have.

[Wizzly_Bear]

My brief 2cp on a "101" sorcerer (I'm at work or I'd elaborate more).

6 build points in con, 16 in cha (maxed), 4 in int (2 if human or drow), rest in wisdom (will saves) and/or strength (carrying and trip/web prevention).

Skills: concentration, balance, umd

Feats: toughness, max, empower, quicken
If non-nuke: spell pen, greater spell pen, enlarge
If nuke: spell focus and greater spel focus evocation

Leftover feats: any from above; also, extend, spell foci necromancy, spell foci enchantment

Spells: focus on spells that are most useful for repeated castings (nukes, AoEs, displacement, recon. Fill holes with situationals like knock.

[bobbryan2]

This was actually a pretty good guide. It'll get them through the first few levels, and all the vets won't have to 'fix' the characters at 20 for them. Much better than the melee one. Good job!

On the Constitution, I'd mention that it's used for DCs of some of the powerful spell like abilities at high levels. Just so they know it will help their casting. Also... anything to convince newbies to take a little more con is helpful.

[FrozenNova]

Definitely throw in a mandatory 11 ranks to UMD - that's a major advantage sorcerors have over wizards for new players. It's possibly to achieve workable UMD on a wizard, but far from the simplicity a 40 cha will grant.

[Ytteri]

Spell focus conjuration is a viable alternative to evocation as it also meets the pre-requisites for the savant lines, and a heightened web is a very good CC spell. Earth savants especially should take conjuration instead as most acid spells seem to be conjuration.

[nat_1]

• WIS - A sorcerer's Spot skill and Will Save tie directly into Wisdom (WIS). While a high WIS isn't useless, few sorcerers have a score higher than 12 because Will Save can be increased by taking the Force of Personality feat.


Wouldn't you dump Wis if you were taking FoP? This makes it sound like you would take 12 Wis then FoP.

IMO Warforged need some credit for their immunities since they can shore up the likely dismal saves on a 28 pt non-twinked Sorc. The immunities make it easier to take the route of "1. Casting stat 2. Con 3. Whatever."

[jkm]

Please note that Strength is a dangerous thing to dump on halflings due to their carrying capacity penalty. A 6 str halfling sorc might be medium encumbered with just their spell components.

A halfling sorc with dragonmarks is a safe choice for a new player nuker build (without access to warforge). It is unoptimized at higher levels because the DMs drain other more important feats, however it is a verrrry cheap build to play (since most new players have no money). This allows them to learn if they can handle wands/heal scrolls by themselves with a bigger margin of error.

Another point that I'd make is that most sorcs carry a complete loadout of defensive spells (known or scrolled) and very few offensive spells. The number of level 9-14 Arcanes who do not have displacement is abysmally high. And, in my experience, their relative survival rate suffers as a result (we call most puggee arcanes/rogues "Chunk, Chunk, Dings").

[Qezuzu]

• There is no single "best" race option for a sorcerer; it all comes down to personal preference. Humans are a solid choice for their level 1 feat bonus, and for the bonus CHA from Human Adaptability, an Enhancement. Conversely, warforged are popular because they can self-heal using sorcerer repair spells, and benefit from a higher Constitution (CON) -- but warforged also have lower CHA. Drow have higher innate CHA, but lower innate CON, making them strong-yet-more-fragile sorcerers. Half Elf and Humans also get Healing Amp enhancements, which is a great mix with a Sorcerer's high CHA and thus UMD. UMD'ed Cure and Heal effects, heightened with healing amp (and scroll mastery? Does this affect divine scrolls?) are a great alternative to WF characters, who must sacrifice 2 CHA (3 CHA compared to humans, 4 to Drow) and spell slots for repair spells.

• STR - More often than not, Strength (STR) isn't useful for sorcerers -- who fight with spells, not by swinging weapons. However, STR does affect how much loot a character can carry before becoming encumbered (i.e. slower movement); consider 10 STR if this concerns you. Low STR also means you can be easily be rendered helpless from enemy spells that lower STR. Even though it isn't a primary stat for Sorcerers, it is a good idea to invest some gear into raising your STR.

• DEX - Dexterity (DEX) improves Armor Class (AC), which helps defend against physical/weapon attacks, and Reflex Saves, one of three basic Saving Throws used to avoid many spells and traps. Note: investing into DEX for a boost to AC is generally a fruitless pursuit for sorcerers. Newbie sorcerers simply cannot get a meaningul reflex or AC by putting points into DEX.

• CON - Every character in DDO should have a solid Constitution (CON) score. A higher CON translates into more Hit Points, and a higher Fortitude Save, which results in some bonus to spell defense. It's recommended new players have a minimum of 14 CON; if you feel particularly confident in being able to avoid all dangers, forever, try 12 CON. HP is the most important thing your character can have. Be sure to invest in gear that will raise it, like items that increase your CON, "False Life" items, and other, rarer effects like Toughness.

• INT - As with all classes, Intelligence (INT) affects a sorcerer's available skill points. With a high INT, more skills can be raised, but it's generally recommended to boost Intelligence no higher than 12 unless you really feel like more skill points are important to your character build. Humans get a bonus skill point each level.

• WIS - A sorcerer's Spot skill and Will Save tie directly into Wisdom (WIS). While a high WIS isn't useless, few sorcerers have a score higher than 12 because Will Save can be increased by taking the Force of Personality feat. Wisdom is pretty much useless for a Sorcerer.

• Level 1) Toughness - Increases Hit Points (HP) at first level and provides additional HP for each new level, allows a player to take the Racial Toughness Enhancement. Toughness grants 22 HP when capped, and the racial toughnesses mean that a human will get 42 to 52, and a WF will get 62. Toughness is not optional for casters.

• Level 6) Spell Focus: Evocation - Your spells of one school of magic (Evocation) are harder to resist and break through enemy spell defenses more easily. Take this if you want to take a Savant Prestige line, and focus on a Sorcerer who is more capable of dealing damage. Spell Focus: Enchantment and Spell Focus: Necromancy allows your sorcerer to be better at disabling your opponent with mental compulsions, or outright killing them, respectively.

• Enlarge Spell - With this metamagic feat active, spells have twice the range but consume 10 additional SP. Many spells are already enlarged. This is primarily useful for short range spells, like Dance and Cone-style spells. Be sure that enlarge is right for you (contact your nearest Archmage if your spells remain enlarged for more than 4 hours).

• Quicken Spell - With this metamagic feat active, spells cast twice as fast and cannot be interrupted by enemy attacks, but consume 10 additional SP. (Sorcerers already have faster spell casing than other caster classes).

• Mental Toughness - Increases your maximum available SP. Note that sorcerers already have the highest pool of SP in DDO. Sorcerers should not take this feat.

• Improved Mental Toughness – Further increases your maximum available SP. Ditto

• Use Magic Device (UMD) – This skill allows a sorcerer the use of equipment designed for another race, or even moral alignment. UMD also allows the use of scrolls and wands normally wielded by divine classes such as clerics and paladins, opening up opportunities for a sorcerer to self-heal with divine scrolls and wands. A Sorcerer's high CHA score means that they are very adept with UMD and can use very useful scrolls like Heal and Raise Dead. A must have for any Sorcerer.

Additions in Red

[THOTHdha]

Looks pretty good in general! Only one thing that seems kind of off to me:



• Use Magic Device (UMD) – This skill allows a sorcerer the use of equipment designed for another race, or even moral alignment. UMD also allows the use of scrolls and wands normally wielded by divine classes such as clerics and paladins, opening up opportunities for a sorcerer to self-heal with divine scrolls and wands.


While this is absolutely true, given the target audience it might be worth while to mention that getting real use out of UMD requires a heavy investment in time collecting gear. Max cross-class ranks in UMD would be 11, with a 38 CHA that's another +14. 25 is still a long ways from the 'no-fail Heal' goal of 39.

Granted, you can get your CHA higher than that once you start to gear up, and you can definitely get gear that will put your UMD up to that goal, but none of the items for that are of the type that you can just walk to the Auction House and buy. With just a skill and stat investment rather than grinding for named items new players can only really get just short of Cure Critical Wounds and Restoration.

New players might find it frustrating to read about how UMD lets them heal themselves, and then find that even using the most basic cure wands they rarely succeed. And also that the skill will not become reliable 100% of the time until they gain several levels or work on finding rare items.

[Aashrym]

guide



I would recommend adding more information on the difference between spell penetration and save DC's on all of the class guides them might choose offensive casting. I run into enough players who don't understand how those two items work often enough that it stands out as a common misconception to me.

Mental toughness and improved mental toughness would not be on my feat selection. Not much point with high SP and SLA's available by the time those feats even start to impact SP.

I would mention savant spells impacted per PRE type if you can fit that in, and the prereq's, or a link to prereq's. A handy list would be easier to work with than fishing through the enhancements in the compendium.

I gave you a +1 for requesting and acknowledging feedback, including some recognition for the posters.

[karl_k0ch]

They are for traps, not spotting hidden enemies - which is what youd want as a sorcerer, being you cannot even target a hidden enemy to say kill him wiht fod anymore.


The anecdote which I was referring to was explicity referring to hidden enemies. I wasn't talking about traps at all.

[Cahira]

Re: Max and Empower

When the new spell pass came out in U9, I did a spreadsheet figuring average damage per spell point spent for each damage spell that a wizard or sorceror gets.

Some simplifications were made:

1. Damage is only figured against a standard opponent (not an opponent who is resistant or who is esp. vulnerable to the damage type).
2. AoE effects are figured for number of ticks of the spell on 1 opponent...and assumes that 1 opponent will be in the area of damage for the entire time of the spell.
3. Saves for half damage or zero damage were not considered.
4. A caster level of 20 was used for any spell that varies damage by level.

After I figured average damage per spell point (both pre-U9 and pos-U9), then I figured in what Max and Empower would do to the costs.

What I found from this is as follows:

In a strictly speaking damage per spell point sense (not assuming that you need to do massive damage to overcome regen), the following spells are worthwhile when using metamagics.

Spells which actually have a higher damage per spell point spent when using metas:

--Cloudkill (break even on Empower, higher damage/sp with Max or both Max/Emp)
--Acid Fog (higher damage/sp regardless of metas)
--Incendiary cloud (higher damage/sp regardless of metas)
--Meteor Swarm (higher damage/sp regardless of metas)

Spells that break even with Max on (all these have a lower damage/sp with Emp or both Max/Emp on):

--Ice Storm
--Wall of Fire
--Death Aura
--Negative Energy Burst
--Chain Lightning
--Otiluke's Freezing Sphere
--Disintegrate
--Delayed Blast Fireball
--Sunburst

Based on these findings, Maximize should not be taken until you can cast level 4 spells (sorc level 8), and Empower should not be taken until you can cast level 5 spells (Sorc level 10)...unless you want to get Max at lvl 6 to prep for lvl 8 and get Emp at lvl 9 to prep for lvl 10.

You don't have enough SP at low levels to waste casting 1 Maxed Magic Missile for double damage when you could instead cast Magic Missile 7 times for 1 fewer SP.

[fuzzy1guy]

nm

[Junts]

Wouldn't you dump Wis if you were taking FoP? This makes it sound like you would take 12 Wis then FoP.

IMO Warforged need some credit for their immunities since they can shore up the likely dismal saves on a 36 pt epic-geared Sorc. The immunities make it easier to take the route of "1. Casting stat 2. Con 3. Whatever."

I edited that slightly for you. A few points in dex/wisdom does not fix the save problems of sorcerors.

That's what immunity buffs, fireshield, etc are for.

[Crazyfruit]

This is much better than the first draft of a melee guide I saw earlier :)


• STR - More often than not, Strength (STR) isn't useful for sorcerers -- who fight with spells, not by swinging weapons. However, STR does affect how much loot a character can carry before becoming encumbered (i.e. slower movement); consider 10 STR if this concerns you.

I'd change this to:


• STR - More often than not, Strength (STR) isn't useful for sorcerers -- who fight with spells, not by swinging weapons. However, weapons something something useful if you're trying to conserve spell points. STR also affects how much loot a character can carry before becoming encumbered (i.e. slower movement) or helpless from enemy attacks; consider at least 10 STR if this concerns you.

On a related note, I started a sorcerer with 13 str and he was barely able to take his collectible & ingredients bags out of the True Reincarnation cache. Eep! ^^

[FordyTwo]

Thanks for the continued feedback everyone! I'll be working on a new draft based on suggestions here, and you can expect to see similar threads on other class 101 guides in the future.

[Montrose]

• Quicken Spell - With this metamagic feat active, spells cast twice as fast and cannot be interrupted by enemy attacks, but consume 10 additional SP.



Something to the effect of:

Quicken is particularly useful to Warforged sorcerors as it makes their self-healing ability uninterruptable and instantenous. Consider quicken more strongly if you are a Warforged.

[seobanio]

My Responses in Red.




• A sorcerer's Charisma (CHA) score directly affects the strength of their spells, the Difficulty Check (DC) an enemy target must overcome, and the maximum amount of available Spell Points (SP).

How does Charisma impact spell strength independent of DC? (Hint: the answer is: it doesn't)

• There is no single "best" race option for a sorcerer; it all comes down to personal preference. Humans are a solid choice for their level 1 feat bonus, and for the bonus CHA from Human Adaptability, an Enhancement. Conversely, warforged are popular because they can self-heal using sorcerer repair spells, and benefit from a higher Constitution (CON) -- but warforged also have lower CHA. Drow have higher innate CHA, but lower innate CON, making them strong-yet-more-fragile sorcerers.

I like that you put drow last. I think adding something about how important hit points are, particularly for newer players is warranted. Drow sorcs are not for brand new DDO players imo.

• Train 1 rank (not ".5" -- 1.0) into the Tumble skill at character creation. In DDO, a player cannot use Tumble without training, and tumbling away from ranged attacks is a useful skill to have.

Other useful skills for a sorceror: concentration, umd, and balance. Though probably you shouldn't put points into int on a 28 point build, so perhap skill stuff isn't that relevant.

==Ability Scores==

I think something along the lines of investing most of your points into 2 main stats is what most sorcs do, because from the way the guide sounds you might end up with 2 points in irrelevant stats. Also its good to make it clear that it is usually best to go with an even number when possible. This isn't always true but for new builds its a good rule of thumb. (i.e. 16 cha over 15 or 17)

• STR - More often than not, Strength (STR) isn't useful for sorcerers -- who fight with spells, not by swinging weapons. However, STR does affect how much loot a character can carry before becoming encumbered (i.e. slower movement); consider 10 STR if this concerns you.

putting it this way makes it sound like your toon is going to miss out. I would change it to make it sound like you are going to have to go to the vendor a little more often between questing.

• DEX - Dexterity (DEX) improves Armor Class (AC), which helps defend against physical/weapon attacks, and Reflex Saves, one of three basic Saving Throws used to avoid many spells and traps. Note: investing into DEX for a boost to AC is generally a fruitless pursuit for sorcerers.

I would add something along the lines of: sorcerers rarely invest in dex.

• CON - Every character in DDO should have a solid Constitution (CON) score. A higher CON translates into more Hit Points, and a higher Fortitude Save, which results in some bonus to spell defense. It's recommended new players have 14 CON; if you feel particularly confident in being able to avoid all dangers, forever, try 12 CON.


I like this. the only thing I would do is change the visuals, to highlight con and charisma, so that people who only skim the guide read about con and charisma if nothing else. Putting the stats in same order as on character sheet is a good thing overall, but might mean that the "skimmers" miss out.

• INT - As with all classes, Intelligence (INT) affects a sorcerer's available skill points. With a high INT, more skills can be raised, but it's generally recommended to boost Intelligence no higher than 12 unless you really feel like more skill points are important to your character build.

I would say 10 or 12.

• WIS - A sorcerer's Spot skill and Will Save tie directly into Wisdom (WIS). While a high WIS isn't useless, few sorcerers have a score higher than 12 because Will Save can be increased by taking the Force of Personality feat.

• CHA - A sorcerer's Charisma (CHA) is their bread-and-butter score. A higher Charisma allows more max Spell Point totals and nastier DCs for the spells you cast. The great majority of sorcerers start with 18 or 20 Charisma. (20 is only available to drow and 16 is the maximum available to warforged.)

Warforged is by far the best race for a new player, simply because the ability to self heal is much better than spell dcs when you don't know what you are doing. I would alter the text some to make it seem less like warforged aren't an optimal choice.

==Feats==

Often times, new players are eager to jump into DDO right away, and that's perfectly understandable. However, an essential component of successful adventuring in DDO is planning out a character's feats. At max level (20) a sorcerer will have 7 Feats total. (Note: humans have 8.) Because there are only 7 (or 8) feats to work with, feat planning doesn't take long!

Here's an example feat selection that's perfect for a new player who wants a human sorcerer good at offensive spell casting (i.e. damage-dealing evocation spells) -- otherwise known as an Evocation Sorcerer:

• Level 1) Toughness - Increases Hit Points (HP) at first level and provides additional HP for each new level, allows a player to take the Racial Toughness Enhancement.

• Level 1) Empower Spell - While this metamagic feat is active, spells do 50% more damage but consume 15 additional Spell Points (SP).

• Level 3) Maximize Spell - While this metamagic feat is active, damage spells deal double damage but consume 25 additional SP.

• Level 6) Spell Focus: Evocation - Your spells of one school of magic (Evocation) are harder to resist and break through enemy spell defenses more easily.

• Level 9) Heighten Spell - While this metamagic feat is active your spells are raised to the highest spell level your character can cast, making them more difficult to resist but increasing their spell point cost.

• Level 12) Greater Spell Focus - Your spells of one school of magic are even harder to resist; this stacks with the bonus from Spell Focus.

• Level 15) Spell Penetration - Adds +2 to your caster level check for defeating spell resistance, making it easier to attack tougher opponents.

• Level 18) Greater Spell Penetration - Adds +2 to your caster level check for defeating spell resistance, further improving the ease with which your spells strike tougher opponents (in addition to the Spell Penetration feat).

A warforged sorcerer should take quicken over either Greater spell focus or greater spell pen. I would also favor another toughness for new players over the other greater feat, but that is just me.

If some of the above feats aren't to your liking, consider replacing them with any of these sorcerer-friendly feats:

• Extend Spell - With this metamagic feat active, spells with durations last twice as long but consume 10 additional SP

• Force of Personality - Add your CHA modifier to your Will Saves instead of your WIS modifier, making it tougher for several spell-types to harm your sorcerer.

• Enlarge Spell - With this metamagic feat active, spells have twice the range but consume 10 additional SP.

• Quicken Spell - With this metamagic feat active, spells cast twice as fast and cannot be interrupted by enemy attacks, but consume 10 additional SP.

List this one first and mention it is particularly good for warforged because they can self heal.

• Mental Toughness - Increases your maximum available SP. Note that sorcerers already have the highest pool of SP in DDO.

• Improved Mental Toughness – Further increases your maximum available SP.

==Skills==

Planning out skills selection can be useful as well, but getting the basics of a standard sorcerer aren't too difficult.

Here are some solid skills to keep maxed out while leveling a sorcerer:

• Concentration – An incredibly useful skill for sorcerers! In DDO, sorcerers rely on Concentration when spell casting and taking damage from enemy attacks. When a sorcerer is damaged while casting, a Concentration check occurs – failure results in their SP being wasted while the spell fizzles out. A higher Concentration skill improves chances to succeed, so keep Concentration maxed out at all levels.

• Diplomacy – Also a very handy skill. Have you enraged a nasty enemy with your Magic Missiles or stumbled onto a deadly, sneaking foe? When used, Diplomacy may cause that enemy to decide to go after another member in your party. Crisis averted!

• Use Magic Device (UMD) – This skill allows a sorcerer the use of equipment designed for another race, or even moral alignment. UMD also allows the use of scrolls and wands normally wielded by divine classes such as clerics and paladins, opening up opportunities for a sorcerer to self-heal with divine scrolls and wands.

UMD is better than diplomacy, I would place it higher.

• Balance – Characters get knocked down by many types of attacks – both physical and magical – in DDO. With Balance, a character regains their footing more quickly after a knockdown. Avoiding a knockdown requires either decent STR or DEX, and because a sorcerer doesn’t typically invest in either STR or DEX scores, the faster recovery-time offered by Balance is invaluable.

Here are a couple optional skills that, depending on personal play style, can be useful:

• Bluff – With Bluff, a character may convince some non-player characters (NPCs) to give extra information on a quest or do something specific. Bluff also works like Diplomacy in convincing monsters to attack someone else, and unlike Diplomacy it can be used while playing solo; however, Bluff only works on one target at a time (compared to Diplomacy, which can affect multiple creatures at once.) With a sorcerer's high CHA only a few skill ranks are really needed.

• Haggle - Improve the price of items sold to NPCs and lower the cost of items bought from NPCs.

• Spot - See hidden enemies before they appear and begin attacking. A few points in Spot may make the difference between not seeing hidden enemies and seeing most of them.

[seobanio]

You may also wish to note that Spell Focus Evocation or Conjuration is required for the Sorcerer's Savant PrE lines, so that swapping that out for something else, even if it appears a lackluster feat at first, isn't a good idea.

Also I agree with this. I don't think I would get into PrE in a newbie guide, but its probably a good idea to just say that it is required for in game advancements that make your character more powerful.

[seobanio]

6) Extend - If as a sorc you can at least cast extended haste/resists/displace/rage/etc.. No matter how poorly you casts, you will be a valuable party member, so this - even after the nerf - is a CRITICAL feat for any new sorcerer. New players simply won't have the SP/experience needed to keep a party fully buffed an entire quest without it.


LOL... no, do not recommend extend so a sorc can keep barbarians happy.

[Cardtrick]

This is actually quite a solid guide! Admittedly, I haven't read it before now (I was too embarrassed by the Melee 101 guide to read that thread for long, and avoided this one for the same reason), so I'm not sure what it was originally like. But no one (except Shade) would call a sorcerer following this guide gimped.

I might swap the places of Quicken and Greater Spell Pen (certainly for warforged, but probably for anyone else too), so that GSP was a possible swap-in and Quicken was the default . . . but there are good arguments to be made either way.

I would also say that new players should try for CON 16, and maybe drop down to a 14 rather than the 14->12 you currently have, but either way it's nice to see CON recommended as the second-highest stat.

All in all, this is really reasonable. Great job!

[SteeleTrueheart]

Hello all!

We took the community feedback from Melee [Class forums] and went back to the drawing board on [Class forums] for DDO. The result is creating class-specific [Class forums] instead of "style-encompassing" [Class forums] . Another part of making these new 101 class guides is that we'd love to have your feedback early!

Fixed that for you.

On the 101 guide. It looks good. Admittedly I am seeing the revised version.

[sirgog]

Quite a reasonable guide.

I'd add something like the following:


Playing in a group:
You contribute three main things to a group:

1) The ability to damage monsters with spells like Fireball - you are the best class at damaging multiple foes at once. Most of these spells deal elemental damage, and at mid to high levels, you can train as an Elemental Savant to make spells of your favorite element do even more damage.
Make sure that you have at least one (preferably more) good damage dealing spells in your arsenal.
We recommend taking Burning Hands as one of your first-level spells when starting - it will serve you well against the many ice creatures of Korthos Island, the first place your adventures will take you.

If you want to improve these spells, Spell Focus Evocation and Greater Spell Focus Evocation are great feats to take, or if you focus on Acid spells, SF: Conjuration instead. Maximize Spell and Empower Spell are even better, and every Sorc should take both.

2) The ability to neutralize foes with powerful magic - bending the minds of lesser foes so that they fight for you with Charm and Suggestion spells, temporarily preventing monsters from attacking at all with spells like Hypnotism, Hold Person, Otto's Resistable Dance and Web, and even slaying them outright at high level with spells like the fearsome Power Word: Kill. Wizards are better than Sorcerers at crowd control, but you can still do a good job of it.

If you want to improve these spells further, you can look into Spell Focus Enchantement and the Spell Penetration feats. If you find foes still resist your spells too often, you can try weakening your foes' defenses with spells like Crushing Despair and Enervation, but these intermediate and advanced tactics are beyond the scope of a 101 guide.

3) Powerful 'buffs' - spells that make you and your party members better. Your buffs will let the party move and act faster (Haste), make allies harder to hit (Blur and Displacement), allow them to shrug off elemental damage (Resist Energy), make them physically tougher (Bull's Strength, Bear's Endurance), or enhance their combat prowess (Heroism). You'll get even better buff spells as you gain levels. We recommend all Sorcerers choose Haste and Resist Energy by level 8 or 9 at the latest.
Some other great buff spells to consider:
Jump
Nightshield (this only helps you, not party members)
Reconstruct (helps Warforged only)

If you want to improve these spells, you will love the Extend Spell feat, which will make these spells last twice as long for only a small increase in spellpoint costs. And remember that if you have an old damage-dealing spell that you no longer use (maybe you stopped using Burning Hands when you upgraded it to Fireball), once per three days you can visit your class trainer and swap an old damage spell for a new buff spell.



Spell suggestions:

Here's a recommended list of spells you can take, in order, as you initially level your Sorcerer. I could be wrong about when you get certain levels of spells.
This list will ensure you can manage damage, buffing and crowd control from levels 1 to 10, and is designed to let you try a whole range of different spells. If you don't like a spell on the list, you can swap it at your trainer (this can only be done once per three days), or use a Dragon's Blood to swap a lot at once (available from the DDO store, or from the hoards of various Dragons you might defeat in game).
This list assumes you are not a Warforged - WF Sorcs will want to take at least one good Repair spell, probably Repair Light Damage instead of Magic Missile, and Repair Critical Damage in place of Phantasmal Killer. (If you aren't Warforged, don't worry too much about taking these spells to repair other Warforged - once you are very high level you might be able to spare a spell slot for this purpose).

Level 1: Take Burning Hands and Magic Missile.
2: Add Expeditious Retreat.
3: Add Charm Person. (This works on Orcs, Kobolds and many other foes - if it stands upright and is smaller than an Ogre, you can usually charm it).
4: Your first level 2 spell! Add Melf's Acid Arrow - this is a damage-over-time spell, which doesn't do much damage each time, but hits your foe four times.
5: Add Resist Energy.
6: Add Fireball. You probably won't use Burning Hands much any more, so visit your trainer and swap it for Jump (which will let you and your party avoid monsters, dodge traps and even take shortcuts sometimes).
7: Add Haste and Blur.
8: Add Phantasmal Killer - your first death spell! Lots of monsters will shake this one off, but it is still very powerful.
9: Add Lightning Bolt and Wall of Fire. Wall of Fire doesn't do much damage, but if you can lure foes into the wall (or prevent them from leaving), they can be hit as many as 14 times by one casting of this spell.
10: Add Cone of Cold if you want to specialize in killing 'trash mobs' as quickly as possible, or Niac's Biting Cold if you want to do consistent damage to powerful boss monsters like Velah the Red Dragon, or Sor'jek Incanni the Storm Giant.

From this level onward, you will have enough experience with the game to pick the rest of your spells yourself.


On stats, I'd state the following:
"Many players recommend starting with the highest possible Charisma, then putting all remaining build points into Constitution, which will give a Human an 18 Charisma, a 16 Constitution and 2 points left that can be spent anywhere."

[laudwic]

The summoning line of spells. Each of these spells gives you the choice of three monsters that follow you, attack for you, and take damage for you. Every attack on a summoned creature is not one on your party plus, with the options in summoning now, you may be able to select something with an additional helpful ability such as web or cold/fire dealing with creatures that take extra damage from those attacks.

One other thought with multi-classing. You should not multi-class too much with a caster. I solo the vast majority of time with a cleric hireling. I am running a Soc 7/Rogue 1. I'm having no problems with locating/disarming traps and locks are no problem. My pure rogue didn't do any better at this level. While folks are going to say this is not the best for synergy as you will want a higher INT stat to get more skill points, I usually get a minimum of 10% more xp because of the secret door location and disarming traps at the loss of a little less spell points. I can open every door and chest. Its actually a pretty fun solo build.

[Cardtrick]

The summoning line of spells. Each of these spells gives you the choice of three monsters that follow you, attack for you, and take damage for you. Every attack on a summoned creature is not one on your party plus, with the options in summoning now, you may be able to select something with an additional helpful ability such as web or cold/fire dealing with creatures that take extra damage from those attacks.

One other thought with multi-classing. You should not multi-class too much with a caster. I solo the vast majority of time with a cleric hireling. I am running a Soc 7/Rogue 1. I'm having no problems with locating/disarming traps and locks are no problem. My pure rogue didn't do any better at this level. While folks are going to say this is not the best for synergy as you will want a higher INT stat to get more skill points, I usually get a minimum of 10% more xp because of the secret door location and disarming traps at the loss of a little less spell points. I can open every door and chest. Its actually a pretty fun solo build.

This is exactly the sort of information that does not belong in this guide. The summoning bit because they're situationally useful at best and generally only a flavor choice, and the multiclass bit because a 101 guide shouldn't be talking about the complexities of multiclassing. Sorcs don't have a lot of multiclass synergy to begin with; there's something to be said for sorcadins or deeper splashes like the Tukaw build, but that's way too complicated to get into in a beginner's guide. No easier way for a beginner to ruin a sorcerer than multiclassing it.

[danotmano1998]

Great thread, solid info!

Much better, thanks for asking for input before posting this one dev's.
While there are a lot of different things that could be ADDED to this, There's nothing in there blatantly wrong or misleading.

I give it 2 enthusiastic thumbs up!
I'd add a UMD component to skills as mentioned above (For self healing and the synergy between UMD and CHA), and stress how nice Repair spells are for Warforged races. Other than that, solid gold.

[boricua_in_cali]

"a really basic suggestion like "make sure to take at least one spell that can do damage to enemies" couldn't hurt."


This, PLEASE, THIS!