Crafted metal handwraps bugged?

[Shadowspawned]

Tonight I finally got around to re-crafting my +1 holy burst silver threaded handwraps into a set of +3 holy silver threaded LEOBs, but after taking them on a test run of Sins of Attrition, I noticed that they were no longer breaking DR on Cenodoxus. Is there something I'm missing here, or has the new crafting system wrecked my impossibly hard to get handwraps?


edit: as I reported farther down in the thread, the holy portion of the crafted wraps does not appear to be breaking DR/good, although the holy damage is occuring as expected. These things are buggier than an ant farm; monk players, you have been warned.

[Angelus_dead]

I noticed that they were no longer breaking DR on Cenodoxus. Is there something I'm missing here, or has the new crafting system wrecked my impossibly hard to get handwraps?
Cenodoxus has some other kind of DR than a regular devil. Try out a Metalline Dagger of Pure Good and see what happens...

[Shadowspawned]

Cenodoxus has some other kind of DR than a regular devil. Try out a Metalline Dagger of Pure Good and see what happens...

I was hoping that might be the case, but I couldn't find his DR listed anywhere. Thanks, AD.

[Tunst]

they were holy burst and silver to begin with
now holy silver and leob.
both are silver
both are good.


all i can say is test stuff out.
try cold iron, byeshk, etc.

[Backley]

I was hoping that might be the case, but I couldn't find his DR listed anywhere. Thanks, AD.

Check your combat log. DR type is now listed there.

[Kaytis]

Min IIs do not break his dr. I have tried a lot of different weapons and found nothing that gets by it.

[Backley]

Check your combat log. DR type is now listed there.

Note that if it doesn't list the DR type, it is DR/- and cannot be bypassed.

[Shadowspawned]

they were holy burst and silver to begin with
now holy silver and leob.
both are silver
both are good.


all i can say is test stuff out.
try cold iron, byeshk, etc.

I was thinking that I'd used the holy burst silver threaded wraps to break his DR before, but I was clearly mis-remembering. I'll just take the new wraps on a Shroud run tomorrow to make sure they're working as advertised. Thanks, all.

[Marten]

Tonight I finally got around to re-crafting my +1 holy burst silver threaded handwraps into a set of +3 holy silver threaded LEOBs, but after taking them on a test run of Sins of Attrition, I noticed that they were no longer breaking DR on Cenodoxus. Is there something I'm missing here, or has the new crafting system wrecked my impossibly hard to get handwraps?

I just want to repost this as it seems that many monks have not been following my testing on crafted handwraps, so please keep this in mind as you craft handwraps currently.


There has to be some code for handwraps that is completely separate from all other weapons coding.

There have been issues in the past, force rituals, stacking frost and icy burst, epic wraps get changed in testing from +5 to +6 but the damage did not change.

Now with this crafting system you could take the + off any item except wraps and so far all wraps I have made the + enhancement shards are not WAI while all the other weapons I have added the + enhancement shards to are WAI.

So, just a fyi to all the monks out there on this issue and a nudge to the Dev team in charge of new items... please stop forgetting that wraps are not changed by the same code/switch that all other weapons seem to be changed by.

Thank you.


Handwraps work in a completely different way than normal weapons. That being said, work was done to allow them to work like normal weapons for crafting and festival recipe effects. If you experience an effect that does not work on handwraps in crafting please submit a bug.


I have submitted bug reports on both issues, this new one shown in pic 1 (no + to hit or damage on crafted items) and the one with the Epic wraps (only adding +5 to damage when it should be +6) many months ago shown in pic 2.

I know that things take time to fix, but the Epic Ring of the Buccaneer was fixed while I have not even seen an acknowledgement that there is an issue with the Epic Wraps and that leads me to fear that these crafted wraps are going to be over looked as well.

Pic 1
http://img851.imageshack.us/img851/3830/plustocraftedwrapsnwai.jpg

Pic2
http://img816.imageshack.us/img816/2103/screenshot00264.jpg

I hope that these get added to the "to do" list or at least "known issues" although that list usually means there is no hope.

Again, I thank you for your hard work.



These officially made it to the "to do" list and both problems have been identified. Thanks for reporting these.

So, depending on if the fixes are retro active or not, you may have to re-docon the wraps and make them again... and you are currently not getting your plus to hit or dmg.

As to the silver, I do not have a pair of silver wraps to have tested with so I hope they are WAI.

By the way, I forget if the silver items drop out of DA on hard or elite... can you remind me.?

[Gennesuke]

Hi they drop on normal and hard.

[Shadowspawned]

By the way, I forget if the silver items drop out of DA on hard or elite... can you remind me.?

They drop on Normal and Hard DA only, IIRC. Thanks for the info, Marten.

[Feithlin]

By the way, I forget if the silver items drop out of DA on hard or elite... can you remind me.?

I read they only droped on norm and hard, not on elite, but I can't give any guarantee as I never got any ^^.

[ImFour20]

By the way, I forget if the silver items drop out of DA on hard or elite... can you remind me.?

only on hard(and i hear normal)

[Soleran]

Yeah while they fix certain bugs with monk wraps lets see more silver wraps in general, you would think monks were trying to cheat with silver handwraps they are so rare.

[Junts]

Cenodoxus has some other kind of DR than a regular devil. Try out a Metalline Dagger of Pure Good and see what happens...

Now that you can see drs, I went and tested

Cenodoxus has the normal dr 15/silver and good, in that if you don't use a weapo nwith both of those traits, you will never encounter the fact that..

he's a barbarian, and has 10/- dr as well

[Shadowspawned]

After further testing, I still can't say whether or not the silver portion of the handraps is WAI, but it hardly matters, as the Holy portion is not breaking DR/good.

http://my.ddo.com/shadowspawned/wp-content/blogs.dir/152364/files/my-gallery/screenshot00011.jpg

http://my.ddo.com/shadowspawned/wp-content/blogs.dir/152364/files/my-gallery/screenshot00009.jpg

[Angelus_dead]

he's a barbarian, and has 10/- dr as well
I had previously considered him to be a Barbarian.. but doesn't he have a lawful alignment? Perhaps a type of Monk.

[Marten]

After further testing, I still can't say whether or not the silver portion of the handraps is WAI, but it hardly matters, as the Holy portion is not breaking DR/good.

http://my.ddo.com/shadowspawned/wp-content/blogs.dir/152364/files/my-gallery/screenshot00011.jpg

http://my.ddo.com/shadowspawned/wp-content/blogs.dir/152364/files/my-gallery/screenshot00009.jpg

Make sure to pug report it and at the bottom of the report attach the .jpg file.

Use "Other" as you bug type and entitle it Crafted Handwraps. Need to have as many reports as we can get turned in so they can get this resolved. Posting it here is not enough, so please report it.

And thanks for the info on what setting to try and get them.


Yeah while they fix certain bugs with monk wraps lets see more silver wraps in general, you would think monks were trying to cheat with silver handwraps they are so rare.

The main reason I can think of that they are so rare, is DR breaking is the main difference setting Light monks apart from Dark. If they were easy to get and Darks could craft silver holy of greater bane at will then Light monks would lose that small part that makes us special.

Since I am a light monk with Holyburst ring, that may be why I never saw this bug while testing in Lamannia.

[Gulnar13]

So, you're telling me that not only the handwraps from DA are probabily the item with the lowest droprate in the game, but that they're also BUGGED?!

[Shadowspawned]

So, you're telling me that not only the handwraps from DA are probabily the item with the lowest droprate in the game, but that they're also BUGGED?!

No, I'm telling you that when those handwraps are re-made using the new crafting system, they become bugged, so if you're lucky enough to pull a set just leave them as is.

And yes, I already bug reported this, with screenshot.

[redspecter23]

You can see on the details section of your inventory screen when you equip crafted wraps that none of your effects are being added for DR purposes. So certain undead get their DR/magic to apply where it was practically a useless form of DR previously. In addition your crafted abilities don't show up in your examination of yourself where they would normally list "holy" "+1", etc. I'd imagine that on silver threaded wraps that the silver part is functioning properly as it's part of the wraps and not crafted on, so regular devils and orthons should have their DR broken while silver + good bosses would not. It could be a very difficult bug to see if you use silver wraps and have a holy ring crafted.

[Soleran]

The main reason I can think of that they are so rare, is DR breaking is the main difference setting Light monks apart from Dark. If they were easy to get and Darks could craft silver holy of greater bane at will then Light monks would lose that small part that makes us special.


That isn't the only thing that makes a shintao monk different with the all the other abilities granted, the silver is a small part. It certainly doesn't warrant the rarity of silver wraps for one pre for end game content against what 5 different mobs?

If that were the case they better take out all boss beater crafting recipes or with all those min2 crafted weapons it wouldn't be fair.

So we know vampirism doesn't work on wraps and so far banes aren't working?

[redspecter23]

I've tried construct bane and undead bane and in both cases the bane damage seemed to be working fine. Unfortunately the anarchic wraps of construct bane that I made specifically to help beat on the boss in Von 3 have left me a bit disappointed as they don't break his DR currently :(

[redspecter23]

The main reason I can think of that they are so rare, is DR breaking is the main difference setting Light monks apart from Dark. If they were easy to get and Darks could craft silver holy of greater bane at will then Light monks would lose that small part that makes us special.

A classic design mistake is thinking that rarity and game balance are related. Just because an item is rare doesn't make it balanced. Either you have the "overpowered" item and you're overpowered or you don't have it and you're not. There is not middle ground. If the item is truly just so good that it's overpowered it will get the nerf regardless of how many are in existence in the game.

Now I'm not saying silver wraps are overpowered at all but what I think won't change how Turbine distributes certain types of loot. I think it should appear in random loot tables with a similar drop rate to any silver weapon.

[Marten]

That isn't the only thing that makes a shintao monk different with the all the other abilities granted, the silver is a small part. It certainly doesn't warrant the rarity of silver wraps for one pre for end game content against what 5 different mobs?

If that were the case they better take out all boss beater crafting recipes or with all those min2 crafted weapons it wouldn't be fair.

So we know vampirism doesn't work on wraps and so far banes aren't working?

I didn't say it was the only thing that set them apart from our Dark brothers, I said it was the main thing.

Yours is an apples vs oranges comparison. I am not talking about DR breakers of other class or my DPS vs other classes.

Tier 3 Light monks having silver is what sets them apart from other monks the same as TOD is for Dark. The silver on my hands, with the holyburst of my ring is what allows me to use any wraps I want and still break most DRs where as Dark monks have have to give up a little DPS to find wraps to help them break DR. This ability is what allows shintao monks to make up the DPS difference of TOD. So, saying silver is only a small part is like saying TOD is a small part of being Dark... but we don't see wraps that I can go looking for that give me a TOD like ability (Epic Wraps of Endless Light can be used by Dark too), so why should silver wraps be common? They shouldn't.


A classic design mistake is thinking that rarity and game balance are related. Just because an item is rare doesn't make it balanced. Either you have the "overpowered" item and you're overpowered or you don't have it and you're not. There is not middle ground. If the item is truly just so good that it's overpowered it will get the nerf regardless of how many are in existence in the game.

Now I'm not saying silver wraps are overpowered at all but what I think won't change how Turbine distributes certain types of loot. I think it should appear in random loot tables with a similar drop rate to any silver weapon.

Silver wraps as it relates to crafting now, may make them OP, why do you think the Epic Wraps of Endless light do not have a Epic Red slot like all other Epic weapons... because if Darks could put silver there then the balance between the two pres would be gone again... I was a light monk even when being light was laughed at. I don't think we should be headed back in that direction.

[Therigar]

I must be stupid.

I looked at the screen shot and did not notice that the handwraps were Silver Threaded in the item examination window. They do show as silver, adamantine, etc in the inventory window but that is obviously because the character is a light monk and able to bypass the metals (see both inventory pics, one w and one w/o the handwraps equipped).

So, I can't see that there is any bug since the handwraps are not metal to start with.

The only part that seems bugged is the +4 weapon bonus and this seems to be a known issue with handwraps and the new crafting system. Something to do with the system not recognizing handwraps as bludgeoning weapons.

The earlier picture showing the problem with wraps seems to indicate that the underlying problem pre-dates the crafting system as the bonus added to wraps never took place.

That is the same error that shows here. Once stripped to craftable (no +) the wraps don't gain the bonus when it is added on (the +4).

We'd have to see a combat log to know if the holy and bane effects proc during a fight or whether they are also broken.

But, the problem is NOT with a silver threaded wrap being bugged -- or a metal wrap of any type -- since the wraps themselves are not a metal type to start with.

[Marten]

I must be stupid.

I looked at the screen shot and did not notice that the handwraps were Silver Threaded in the item examination window. They do show as silver, adamantine, etc in the inventory window but that is obviously because the character is a light monk and able to bypass the metals (see both inventory pics, one w and one w/o the handwraps equipped).

So, I can't see that there is any bug since the handwraps are not metal to start with.

The only part that seems bugged is the +4 weapon bonus and this seems to be a known issue with handwraps and the new crafting system. Something to do with the system not recognizing handwraps as bludgeoning weapons.

The earlier picture showing the problem with wraps seems to indicate that the underlying problem pre-dates the crafting system as the bonus added to wraps never took place.

That is the same error that shows here. Once stripped to craftable (no +) the wraps don't gain the bonus when it is added on (the +4).

We'd have to see a combat log to know if the holy and bane effects proc during a fight or whether they are also broken.

But, the problem is NOT with a silver threaded wrap being bugged -- or a metal wrap of any type -- since the wraps themselves are not a metal type to start with.

I think you are confusing my post about my testing crafting on Lamannia with the OPs issue of not breaking DR after Deconning his silver wraps.

[Soleran]

I didn't say it was the only
Tier 3 Light monks having silver is what sets them apart from other monks the same as TOD is for Dark. The silver on my hands, with the holyburst of my ring is what allows me to use any wraps I want and still break most DRs where as Dark monks have have to give up a little DPS to find wraps to help them break DR. This ability is what allows shintao monks to make up the DPS difference of TOD. So, saying silver is only a small part is like saying TOD is a small part of being Dark... but we don't see wraps that I can go looking for that give me a TOD like ability (Epic Wraps of Endless Light can be used by Dark too), so why should silver wraps be common? They shouldn't.

You're a veteran now so I'm not going to begin to initiate the differences between dark and light and the shintao light vs dark ninja, it's ridiculous to even say shintao is differentiated soley by silver dr fists.

ToD has nothing to do with ninja
Silver isn't the differentiator for shintao

As a shintao you can be more flexible in wraps choice. Making silver and metalline (with good)so abusrdly rare isn't balanced by any means. If you are staying a light shintao monk simply because of silver dr on fists at this point in the game you're doing it wrong and forgetting your slew of other abilities.

End of the day, silver should be on the random loot tables is all for wraps.

[Therigar]

I think you are confusing my post about my testing crafting on Lamannia with the OPs issue of not breaking DR after Deconning his silver wraps.

Ah, yes that would be the case. :(

[Therigar]

Making silver and metalline (with good)so abusrdly rare isn't balanced by any means.

I'm not certain I agree with this analysis.

Monk is absurdly easy. The lack of silver wraps is not a significant hindrance. It isn't as if you need to solo the bosses where you need to bypass DR. And, the DR isn't so high that you shouldn't be doing decent damage even if you can't bypass it.

By the time you figure in faster attack speeds, full off-hand damage and special attacks a monk is still putting out a lot of damage. And, having played every character class in the game I've moved over to monk as the main or splash class on almost every character because they are so much easier to run.

So, I'm not convinced any balancing is needed. It is a trade off -- exceptionally survivable character with lower damage profiles on some high end content seems like a good deal to me. No need to push it to exceptionally survivable character with comparabel damage profiles on high end content.

But, even that last bit is easily done. Tower of Despair drops rings and they can have Holy Burst. Metalline handwraps are pretty commonplace, even if the other attributes aren't all that fantastic. So, getting past DR isn't really an issue for monks if they really WANT to get past DR.

IMO the complaint about silver/metalline (good) wraps is not valid.

[Shadowspawned]

You can see on the details section of your inventory screen when you equip crafted wraps that none of your effects are being added for DR purposes. So certain undead get their DR/magic to apply where it was practically a useless form of DR previously. In addition your crafted abilities don't show up in your examination of yourself where they would normally list "holy" "+1", etc. I'd imagine that on silver threaded wraps that the silver part is functioning properly as it's part of the wraps and not crafted on, so regular devils and orthons should have their DR broken while silver + good bosses would not. It could be a very difficult bug to see if you use silver wraps and have a holy ring crafted.

I looked more closely and yes, this seems to be the issue exactly. I'm just glad that the silver portion of the wraps still seems to be intact, so I should be able to re-craft them whenever they get around to fixing this. I'd hate to think I'd have to try to farm a second set of these things.

[Therigar]

Played a bit more with crafting this morning and handwraps specifically.

It seems that it doesn't matter at all what you put on wraps -- if it is combat related it does not work.

Buff types of effects seem to work just fine, but anything related to combat and damage seems to be broken.

I think it is all related to the issue of wraps not being considered bludgeoning weapons. But, it could just be Turbine's typically poor programming skills.

[Zildoran]

made some +4 holy of lawful outsider bane handwraps to play with after the update today. The good damage and the bane damage work, but still not breaking DR like they should on devils (tested on Orthons and Bearded Devils in Vale). Putting in a big report in a moment for it.