Some more crafting suggestions

[Algulcz]

There are already plenty other threads about crafting with feedback and suggestions, but I think more is better then less. So here are so of my own thoughts.

1) crafting is still way too grindy, number of deconstructions needed to level up is insane
suggestion: increase xp gain per crafting recipe or decrease xp needed to level up and/or increase deconstruction yield

2) there are far too many limitations(prefix/suffix conflicts, item slot conflicts)
suggestion: get rid of prefix/suffix, item could then hold 2x suffix or 2x prefix(any 2 effects basically) and/or change shard so they can fit into more item slots(like seeker is now for weapons only, make it so it can fit into more slots).

3) ml of bound item is too high
suggestion: lower ml of crafted items, best would be bound=-2, unboud=same as random

4) getting proper blank is still too hard, since I first tried crafting on lama i have been watching auction for proper items, in case of weapon that's material, guild slot and 3D model. I haven't seen one with all 3(and i have never seen one with all 3 and prefix+sufix that i want).
suggestion: allow deconstruction of materials, something like: silver wpn=>silver shard...10x silver shard=> silver ingot...silver ingot+wpn = silver wpn
and item+astral diamond = item with tiny guild slot, item+2x astral diamond = item with small guild slot...
i don't think that material and guild slot should be free, some grind involved is fine, but it needs to be grind with specific goal, waiting to loot proper item or spot it on ah is just...well I'm not sure what to call it but it's definitely not ok.

As I see it, whole crafting system is supposed to give us something useful for slots we don't have something better right now, and there is almost always something better that we just didn't looted yet. But if crafting something useful takes more time than farming quests for that specific loot..then crafting becomes pointless. This crafting looks very promising and has lots of potential, it just need some polishing. So please don't leave it like this. Make it better.

[Feithlin]

1) crafting is still way too grindy, number of deconstructions needed to level up is insane
suggestion: increase xp gain per crafting recipe or decrease xp needed to level up and/or increase deconstruction yield


It's still only on beta, so I suppose they will adjust to get the 'right' progression speed when they will see how it goes after some months of normal gameplay. Lama was probably not very indicative since it was only during a few days and most were using TP boosters instead of running. It's probably still a bit early to evaluate the effort (be it in time, money or TP) what's needed to reach level 50.

IMO, leveling should cost less but creating an item should cost more. This could be done by increasing both xp and shards needed to create an item. This way, you could imagine to level up the enchanting skill of different characters while making the creation of strong items not too easy.
I also think there should be some consideration for the total ML when crafting an item. Basically, this would make it easier for a new player to craft a pg weapon, while keeping the legendary +4 holy burst of geob hard to do. I think there's a problem that it's so hard to level up but then so easy to do all the items when you have reached this level.



2) there are far too many limitations(prefix/suffix conflicts, item slot conflicts)
suggestion: get rid of prefix/suffix, item could then hold 2x suffix or 2x prefix(any 2 effects basically) and/or change shard so they can fit into more item slots(like seeker is now for weapons only, make it so it can fit into more slots).


I don't agree here. Prefixes and suffixes are part of item design. If you have to make choices between some powers and/or slots, it's fine. About association between powers and slots, perhaps some unusual combinations will be opened by using some special ingredients in the future. It would be nice if it were possible, but it should require some specific items, obtained from questing.



3) ml of bound item is too high
suggestion: lower ml of crafted items, best would be bound=-2, unboud=same as random


Agreed. There's no reason to change ML of crafted in comparison to random ones. The fact that you can do anything you want (at least within what's possible :)) is already equilibrated by the fact that you need to increase your crafting skills.
The adjustment could be: -2 for BTC, -1 for BTA and +0 for unbound. However, I think they're reluctant to give unbound crafting atm because it would greatly alterate the overall economy.



4) getting proper blank is still too hard, since I first tried crafting on lama i have been watching auction for proper items, in case of weapon that's material, guild slot and 3D model. I haven't seen one with all 3(and i have never seen one with all 3 and prefix+sufix that i want).
suggestion: allow deconstruction of materials, something like: silver wpn=>silver shard...10x silver shard=> silver ingot...silver ingot+wpn = silver wpn
and item+astral diamond = item with tiny guild slot, item+2x astral diamond = item with small guild slot...
i don't think that material and guild slot should be free, some grind involved is fine, but it needs to be grind with specific goal, waiting to loot proper item or spot it on ah is just...well I'm not sure what to call it but it's definitely not ok.


I would prefer some special ingredients obtained from quest chains or some specific chains rather than more grind. We could also imagine a reward when finishing wilderness area objectives.
The good point of the actual system, even it's somewhat frustrating, is that it still makes random loot valuable.

[Algulcz]

It's still only on beta, so I suppose they will adjust to get the 'right' progression speed when they will see how it goes after some months of normal gameplay.
I hope they will.


IMO, leveling should cost less but creating an item should cost more....
I agree completely. But have no idea how it should work.


I don't agree here....
Some limitations are fine and necessary, but I believe that right now it's too limiting. Like my example:seeker only on weapons/shield. IMO that's beyond useless. And I really hope they will not make lev 75+ recipes same as <75 but for different slots.


I would prefer some special ingredients obtained from quest chains or some specific chains rather than more grind....
My suggestion was just something from top of my head. As long it's possible to create perfect blank i don't mind if I need to grind quest for specific reward or grid something else. Anything is better that just hoping that I will loot it someday.

[daydrmrzzz]

I love the new crafting system, but would like to see the following improvements:
Crafting hall:
1) The hall needs a door! A big black hole for a doorway is tacky.
2) In the central circle, around the fountain, add npc merchants that sell masterwork versions of the clothing, jewelry (including trinkets), weapons, armor, and shields. The minimum price of a masterwork item (Per the DMG) is 300 GP, if you make them craftable already, you can have the list price of the items being 50 Plat + the cost of the base weapon or armor. This would bring in more of the flavor of the 3.5 PnP crafting system. You could also have vendors selling metal ingots to add to the items to make them silver, cold iron, adamantine, etc. Disjoining would then only be needed on something you wanted to preserve guild slots or eldritch enchantments on.


Shard recipes:
1) I like the idea of being able to use Astral diamonds for guild slots, and the ability to convert a masterwork item to silver, adamantine etc.
2) Make a shard for "Mighty composite" to duplicate the PnP versions of mighty composite bows (bows built to strength). These should only be able to be applied to composite bows and be treated as a material. You could have various versions with +1, +2, etc to determine the amount of your strength bonus you can apply to damage.
3) The ability to craft wands. The shards should be separated into Divine and Arcane versions, with separate shards for each level of spell with a max of 3rd level spells (per 3.5 rules). The actual addition of the spell would be during item creation, with every scroll added during creation adding 5 charges, You could even make them rechargable by adding more scrolls later. If the wand becomes just a craftable wand of x lvl arcane or x lvl Divine when the charges are used up, you could change a wand of fireballs to a wand of lightning bolts by using up the fireball charges and putting lightning bolt scrolls in it. In whicjh case the prefix would change from wand of fireballs to wand of lightning bolts. If you put scrolls of your own crafting, you could make the spells higher level versions of the spells (affecting th ML). Wands should have a max of 50 charges.
4) The ability to craft magic staffs with charges similar to wands. The Shards should be similar to the wand shards above (but listed as staff shards) with a max of 6th level spells, and should require a higher level crafting skill to make, and have a max of 30 charges.
5) The ability to craft scrolls. Make the scribe scroll feat available to any caster (wizards still get it free at 1st lvl), sell Divine and Arcane scroll parchment along with spell inscription materials. When you have the scroll parchment selected and you click on the inscribe scroll feat, it brings up a list of your known spells and asks you which spell and what caster level you wish to inscribe it as (this would affect the ML). You can have Scroll parchment of the appropriate level spell as well as the spell inscription materials of the spell level both required to increase the cost of higher level scrolls. The scrolls should be BtC or (at most) BtA to prevent abuse, but could be then used to craft wands and staffs.
6) The ability to make spell "clickies". There would be both Arcane and Divine versions of the "x lvl Arcane/Divine Daily use" suffix with x being separate levels of spell. When creating the item, you would add 1 scroll of the appropriate spell for each daily charge (max 5 charges, max 5th lvl spells). These couldn't be changed after creation and the item name would have a suffix "Of (spell name), like current random generated items.
7) Expand the equipment slots available that shards can be placed in. For example, Str + shards should be able to go in bracers, as well as the current belt, ring, gloves, natural armor should be able to in amulets, etc. Or you could require double the number of shards to place a prefix or suffix on an item that normally doesn't carry that ability. For example a shard of Str +1 currently only goes on gloves, rings, and belts. It would take 1 shard to put it on one of those items but 2 shards to put it on an amulet or trinket or helm, etc.

I think these changes would greatly increase the value of the crafting system and bring it closer in line with the D&D 3.5 rules.