About Acrobatic

[pelaaja]

So, i've been thinking of doing an acrobatic, using both monk and Rogue. Question is, what kind of build?

I have a few ideas here. I just need a little advice on them:

13 rogue / 7 monk
12 rogue / 7 monk / 1 fighter
17 rogue / 3 monk
12 rogue / 6 monk / 2 fighter
12 monk / 7 rogue / 1 fighter
13 monk / 7 rogue

Can you explain pros and cons of these?

Also, i'd start almost all of these builds with this kind of setup:


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.8.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 4 Lawful Good Human Male
(1 Monk \ 3 Rogue)
Hit Points: 70
Spell Points: 0
BAB: 2\2
Fortitude: 5
Reflex: 7
Will: 4

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 4)
Strength 16 17
Dexterity 14 15
Constitution 14 14
Intelligence 14 14
Wisdom 12 12
Charisma 8 8

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 4)
Balance 5 7
Bluff 3 5
Concentration 4 6
Diplomacy 3 5
Disable Device 6 9
Haggle -1 -1
Heal 1 1
Hide 6 7
Intimidate -1 -1
Jump 3 3
Listen 1 1
Move Silently 6 8
Open Lock 6 7
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 2 2
Search 6 9
Spot 5 8
Swim 3 3
Tumble 3 3
Use Magic Device 3 6

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Human Bonus) Two Handed Fighting


Level 2 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Dodge


Level 3 (Rogue)


Level 4 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Human Versatility II
Enhancement: Rogue Item Defense I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
Enhancement: Improved Move Silently I
Enhancement: Improved Hide I

Skills concentrates into Concentration, DD, Open Lock, Search, Spot, Hide, Move Silently and UMD. Bluff and/or Diplomacy if i have enough Skill points into them.

Some changes in enhancements could be done, still. Like Versatility II away, and put Skill Boost I & Haste Boost I.

Dodge (Ninja Spy Requirement) feat can be changed into something better like Weapon Focus: Bludgeon, Nimble Hands, Stealthy or another Toughness. Maybe even Cleave/CE (Shintao Monk Req.)

[hethyba]

Mine is an 8rog/6monk at the moment (going for 13rog/7monk) and I have a blast with it -- it's my highest level character. I went light path instead of dark path. Cleave used to have wonky timing, but it's great now. You might consider halfling for the sneak attack bonuses which synergize very nicely with this build.

Off the top of my head, I'd drop any of the options that are 12 rogue instead of 13. Rogue 12 gives you nothing. Rogue 13 gives you another bump to your sneak damage and a special rogue feat. Why go 12 if not going for 13? An option that you are missing is 13rog/6monk/1fighter which is a fairly popular version. Monk 7 is nice but 6 is enough if you really want the fighter level.

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=158960

For an 84 page thread on this exact type of build.

[elujin]

i enjoy my wf 13/6/1 rog fighter monk

mebey you could go 13/6/1 rog monk fighter

fighter would add an outher feat and so good enchantments

for feats thf line imp:crit blunt PA thoughness (multiple if you can spare them)
cleave , quickdraw stunning blow dodge(for ninja) i got hamstring on mine just for funs :D

and i would max str and con over wis

[pelaaja]

Mine is an 8rog/6monk at the moment (going for 13rog/7monk) and I have a blast with it -- it's my highest level character. I went light path instead of dark path. Cleave used to have wonky timing, but it's great now. You might consider halfling for the sneak attack bonuses which synergize very nicely with this build.

Off the top of my head, I'd drop any of the options that are 12 rogue instead of 13. Rogue 12 gives you nothing. Rogue 13 gives you another bump to your sneak damage and a special rogue feat. Why go 12 if not going for 13? An option that you are missing is 13rog/6monk/1fighter which is a fairly popular version. Monk 7 is nice but 6 is enough if you really want the fighter level.

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=158960

For an 84 page thread on this exact type of build.
First of all, 7 monk because of self-healing. 12 rogue is enough to get the Rogue Acrobatic II. So I probably go like you did: 13 rogue/7 monk. Though are skills/feats/race good enough? Human would be good because of skill points and extra feat. Though i think of Halfling, too, with Dwarf.

I've seen the link, but it didn't please me.

[hethyba]

Honestly, you get 3 bonus monk feats, 2 special rogue feats, and evasion for free -- what do you really need the human bonus feat for? And you're a rogue -- you're already swimming in skillpoints. With sensible level progression and not wasting points spending double on cross class skills if you don't need to, you can handily max out concentration, search, disable, UMD, spot, open locks, and still have plenty leftover for fun things like stupid amounts of tumble.

Also, wholeness of body may be nice, but I still don't have it yet at level 14 and I'm not crying without it. Don't think you HAVE to go for monk 7 just for that.

[elujin]

Honestly, you get 3 bonus monk feats, 2 special rogue feats, and evasion for free -- what do you really need the human bonus feat for? And you're a rogue -- you're already swimming in skillpoints. With sensible level progression and not wasting points spending double on cross class skills if you don't need to, you can handily max out concentration, search, disable, UMD, spot, open locks, and still have plenty leftover for fun things like stupid amounts of tumble.

Also, wholeness of body may be nice, but I still don't have it yet at level 14 and I'm not crying without it. Don't think you HAVE to go for monk 7 just for that.

stupid amounts of tumble is a must on an acrobat ;)

i would go halfling dwarf horc or wf if you want to use stunning horc wf or dwarf pay off and horc wf thf bonuses work well too

[pelaaja]

stupid amounts of tumble is a must on an acrobat ;)

i would go halfling dwarf horc or wf if you want to use stunning horc wf or dwarf pay off and horc wf thf bonuses work well too

Ah, forgot WF THF add-ons. THank for noticing! Probably will go for 13 rogue/6 monk/1 fighter if i do WF then.

[Dirichlet]

Assuming 7 non-Rogue levels, a non-Human with 12 Int gets to max either Diplo or Bluff after all the other essential stuff (with about 15 points in Jump and OL, and about 20 in Conc - max tumble of course), while a Human with 12 Int gets to max both (or possibly take Intim). 14 Int on a Human is overkill. Just make sure you don't put points in to cross class skills where possible. In other words ignore trap skills during Monk levels, and ignore Conc during Rogue levels.

[voodoogroves]

13 rogue is more sneak attack and another rogue feat; it's well worth it. You usually aren't getting enough from the other class to get rid of that one rogue level. Most acrobats will have minimally 13 rogue levels.

20 rogue works just fine. You dip other classes swapping your rogue feats, rogue sneak and skills plus delay Acrobat 2 for the other capabilities. Most common dips:


Monk
1 - WIS to AC, feat, stances
2 - additional feat, animal path, +1 WIS enhancement
3 - light/dark finishers
6 - Ninja Spy 1, +1 WIS enhancement
7 - Wholeness of Body

Fighter
1 - feat, trip/stun enhancemet
2 - feat, +1 STR enhancement
6 - Kensai 1 for additional trip/stun boosts

Barbarian
1 - rage, fast movement boost
2 - dr 1/-
6 - frenzied berserker 1
7 - Barb toughness 3 enhancement, 2nd DR enhancement (giving dr 4/- if you take both)


If you were dead set on dipping monk, i'd suggest one of the following
17 rogue / 3 monk - Light finishers
13 rogue / 7 monk - Ninja Spy
13 rogue / 6 monk / 1 fighter - Ninja spy
13 rogue / 6 fighter / 1 monk - stunner/tripper

[pelaaja]

Here'd be WF Acrobatic. Though i'm not sure about when to take those monk levels...


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.9.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 Lawful Good Warforged Male
(7 Monk \ 13 Rogue)
Hit Points: 296
Spell Points: 0
BAB: 14\14\19\24
Fortitude: 13
Reflex: 16
Will: 10

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 16 20
Dexterity 14 17
Constitution 16 18
Intelligence 14 14
Wisdom 10 12
Charisma 6 6

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 6 29
Bluff -2 -2
Concentration 3 27
Diplomacy 2 20
Disable Device 6 18
Haggle -2 -2
Heal 0 1
Hide 6 24
Intimidate -2 -2
Jump 3 11
Listen 0 1
Move Silently 6 21
Open Lock 6 19
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 2 2
Search 6 18
Spot 4 22
Swim 3 5
Tumble 6 21
Use Magic Device 2 21

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting


Level 2 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness


Level 3 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 4 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 5 (Rogue)


Level 6 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Dodge


Level 7 (Rogue)


Level 8 (Monk)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Deflect Arrows


Level 9 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Inevitable Dominion: Fists of Darkness


Level 10 (Rogue)


Level 11 (Rogue)


Level 12 (Monk)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons


Level 13 (Rogue)


Level 14 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion


Level 15 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Cleave


Level 16 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Mobility


Level 17 (Rogue)


Level 18 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting


Level 19 (Rogue)


Level 20 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Opportunist
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost III
Enhancement: Rogue Item Defense I
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortoise I
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortoise II
Enhancement: All-Consuming Flame
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Monk Ninja Spy I
Enhancement: Adept of Flame
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking I
Enhancement: Rogue Thief-Acrobat I
Enhancement: Rogue Thief-Acrobat II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II
Enhancement: Improved Balance I
Enhancement: Improved Balance II
Enhancement: Improved Jump I
Enhancement: Improved Jump II
Enhancement: Improved Tumble I
Enhancement: Improved Tumble II
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity II
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity III
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom I
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom II
Enhancement: Warforged Constitution I
Enhancement: Warforged Constitution II
Enhancement: Warforged Healer's Friend I
Enhancement: Warforged Power Attack I
Enhancement: Warforged Power Attack II
Enhancement: Warforged Great Weapon Aptitude I
Enhancement: Warforged Great Weapon Aptitude II




A bit asking about enhancements, too: any changes needed to to?


13 rogue is more sneak attack and another rogue feat; it's well worth it. You usually aren't getting enough from the other class to get rid of that one rogue level. Most acrobats will have minimally 13 rogue levels.

20 rogue works just fine. You dip other classes swapping your rogue feats, rogue sneak and skills plus delay Acrobat 2 for the other capabilities. Most common dips:


Monk
1 - WIS to AC, feat, stances
2 - additional feat, animal path, +1 WIS enhancement
3 - light/dark finishers
6 - Ninja Spy 1, +1 WIS enhancement
7 - Wholeness of Body

Fighter
1 - feat, trip/stun enhancemet
2 - feat, +1 STR enhancement
6 - Kensai 1 for additional trip/stun boosts

Barbarian
1 - rage, fast movement boost
etc. more CON, STR


If you were dead set on dipping monk, i'd suggest one of the following
17 rogue / 3 monk - Light finishers
13 rogue / 7 monk - Ninja Spy
13 rogue / 6 monk / 1 fighter - Ninja spy
13 rogue / 6 fighter / 1 monk - stunner/tripper
Nice little guide of Acrobatics. +1 for this.


Just make sure you don't put points in to cross class skills where possible. In other words ignore trap skills during Monk levels, and ignore Conc during Rogue levels.
Ah, so that's maxing the skills wile multi-classing... :P DIdn't know lol

[elujin]

i would take one rog then go for the monk levels to 6 atleast for ninja then 1 more for wholness or later after acro 1 or 2

but in the end it doesn't realy matter .
just make sure you can max your skills :)

using wraps early on .

[hethyba]

Personally I took my first two levels as rogue, then started alternating between rogue and monk levels, so I don't spend all my later levels paying double for concentration, or have to pay double during monk levels to keep rogue skills up. Being one level behind on rogue skills is fine during monk levels. I'll take my last monk level next level at 15. This way means no PrEs until later on (acro 1 at level 10) but it's much more skill point efficient if you can be patient.

[elujin]

Personally I took my first two levels as rogue, then started alternating between rogue and monk levels, so I don't spend all my later levels paying double for concentration, or have to pay double during monk levels to keep rogue skills up. Being one level behind on rogue skills is fine during monk levels. I'll take my last monk level next level at 15. This way means no PrEs until later on (acro 1 at level 10) but it's much more skill point efficient if you can be patient.

true but i am kinda lazy that way :)

[pelaaja]

i would take one rog then go for the monk levels to 6 atleast for ninja then 1 more for wholness or later after acro 1 or 2

but in the end it doesn't realy matter .
just make sure you can max your skills :)

using wraps early on .

Naw, i rather splash a bit. Probably Acro I at lvl 8-10 and Wholeness of Body after that.

And i won't use handwraps :P Shocking Burst Quarterstaff is the way to go

[Geonis]

I have capped a Rog 13/Mnk 7 Halfling, and it was a blast. That being said, on TRing, I chose HOrc, and am planning to end up Rog 13/Barb 7, and currently at 15 (Rog 9/Barb 6), I am having even more fun.

Edit - You can take a peek here (http://my.ddo.com/character/khyber/whackin/).

[SetofBs]

Personally I took my first two levels as rogue, then started alternating between rogue and monk levels, so I don't spend all my later levels paying double for concentration, or have to pay double during monk levels to keep rogue skills up. Being one level behind on rogue skills is fine during monk levels. I'll take my last monk level next level at 15. This way means no PrEs until later on (acro 1 at level 10) but it's much more skill point efficient if you can be patient.

I did something similar. I am planning for a 13/6/1 and did 1/1/1 to start. Then I did 3 rogue, 1 monk, 2 rogue levels so I get Acro 1 at level 9 (so 6/2/1 at that point). Then I plan to do 2 monk, 1 rogue, 2 monk to get ninja spy at 14 (now 7/6/1) then finish out all rogue and get Acro 2 at 19. That way I never have more than 2 monk in a row and don't finish with monk so my skills will be pretty good. The main downside is I have to pay double for concentration at the end but its better that than not having ninja spy or having the opposite problem of paying double for rogue skills.

[Carpone]

Aside from the Epic Staff of Nat Gann, there aren't any good weapons to support an Acrobat II build at end game. Crafting may eventually allow you to create Finesse of Greater Bane staves.

If you're going to take Monk levels, then I think you have to go with Faithful Hound for the additional to-hit,as your BAB is going to be horrible. Light side is better than dark side for only 7 levels of monk, for the light side finishers. Fighter is probably better than monk, since you get additional hit and Haste Boosts.

This kind of build screams Halfling over other races. The SA enhancements go a long way to shore up your terrible to-hit.

[AMDarkwolf]

Aside from the Epic Staff of Nat Gann, there aren't any good weapons to support an Acrobat II build at end game. Crafting may eventually allow you to create Finesse of Greater Bane staves.

If you're going to take Monk levels, then I think you have to go with Faithful Hound for the additional to-hit,as your BAB is going to be horrible. Light side is better than dark side for only 7 levels of monk, for the light side finishers. Fighter is probably better than monk, since you get additional hit and Haste Boosts.

This kind of build screams Halfling over other races. The SA enhancements go a long way to shore up your terrible to-hit.

hahaha.,



hahahahaha....



K. :P


(Epic souleater, dreamspitter, shadowstaff, rhals mights(MANY types) - Ya, not many, but the few we have OWN!)


Maybe you mean 'not many staves for gimped dex based acrobats that dumped str' then sure, ya. 2 total (Natt ganns and breeze)


My to-hit on my monklobat is sitting around +56-60 when buffed. Malicia is one of the very very few bosses(on epic) i 'NEED' gh to hit. My to-hit is fine thanks:P

Light side better? No. the choice is about the same, light gives u a few finishers and fol(which synergy VERY will with the monster heal amp u can get) but dark has 25% incorperality which stacks with blur/displace + clouds + blind for a less than 1/4 chance to take a hit. Ever. Before AC.

And imo it screems human. Not halfling. But a decent monklobat can come from ANY race. Even helvs can prob make a decent build.

Wish some people would learn a bit before they try to give advice.

[voodoogroves]

Aside from the Epic Staff of Nat Gann, there aren't any good weapons to support an Acrobat II build at end game. Crafting may eventually allow you to create Finesse of Greater Bane staves.

If you're going to take Monk levels, then I think you have to go with Faithful Hound for the additional to-hit,as your BAB is going to be horrible. Light side is better than dark side for only 7 levels of monk, for the light side finishers. Fighter is probably better than monk, since you get additional hit and Haste Boosts.

This kind of build screams Halfling over other races. The SA enhancements go a long way to shore up your terrible to-hit.

Was this an assumption around dex-based builds? I think most actual acrobats see that dex-to-damage as gravy and build STR-based.

Epic Souleater is pretty nifty. Rad2 is pretty nifty.


What makes the to-hit bad? Figure 40-ish STR and a 16 base BAB ... that's not the makings of a terrible to-hit.

[SetofBs]

Fighter is probably better than monk, since you get additional hit and Haste Boosts.

This kind of build screams Halfling over other races. The SA enhancements go a long way to shore up your terrible to-hit.

Fighter is an attractive option, but not necessarily better than monk. Monk will give you less to hit, but the damage bonus from Kensai is mitigated by monk ki strikes. Monk also gives more AC, faster movement, 2nd tier stances, animal path, and more skill points.

I do agree that halfling is a strong choice (I am playing a halfling, with 6 planned monk levels). But I do think Horc makes a strong choice, as can Helf, human, dwarf, WF. It all depends on the direction you want to go and what you value in your build.

[Carpone]

h
(Epic souleater, dreamspitter, shadowstaff, rhals mights(MANY types) - Ya, not many, but the few we have OWN!)


Maybe you mean 'not many staves for gimped dex based acrobats that dumped str' then sure, ya. 2 total (Natt ganns and breeze)
STR or DEX, doesn't matter. Epic Souleater, Rahl's Might and Staff of Shadow are ****. Unsuppressed Dreamspitter doesn't break Shavrath boss DR.


Light side better? No. the choice is about the same, light gives u a few finishers and fol(which synergy VERY will with the monster heal amp u can get) but dark has 25% incorperality which stacks with blur/displace + clouds + blind for a less than 1/4 chance to take a hit. Ever. Before AC.
Building a character with 13 levels of rogue to tank is an epic failure. You never, ever want to tank with that much SA damage. So yes, dark path is terrible because you never want to tank.


And imo it screems human. Not halfling. But a decent monklobat can come from ANY race. Even helvs can prob make a decent build.
Human for what? 30% heal amp? The extra feat? Sure, those are nice reasons, but it doesn't "scream" human.


Wish some people would learn a bit before they try to give advice.
Sure wish people would take their own advice.

[AMDarkwolf]

STR or DEX, doesn't matter. Epic Souleater, Rahl's Might and Staff of Shadow are ****. Unsuppressed Dreamspitter doesn't break Shavrath boss DR.


Building a character with 13 levels of rogue to tank is an epic failure. You never, ever want to tank with that much SA damage. So yes, dark path is terrible because you never want to tank.


Human for what? 30% heal amp? The extra feat? Sure, those are nice reasons, but it doesn't "scream" human.


Sure wish people would take their own advice.

They are what? Sure maybe if u compare a greensteel greataxe in the hands of a barb to a greensteel stick in the hands of said bard.. DUH! We not talking about anything other than acrobats. In our hands they rock. we attack VERY fast(Sheesh u even TRY this pre before u come here spurting advice?)

Human.. screems to me for the amp, extra feat, 'general aptitude' with all. This is me. To others, they find each race has their own 'reason'. Again, you come here with no idea what your trying to argue, yet argue away u do. Sad. This point of yours doesn't even DESERVE note yet you listed it.

And ... i tank. Just. Fine. And. I. Get. my. SA. Damage. Can you say that about anyone else? My build has over 40% hategen, and I can keep those sneaks going just dandy with deception(Rhals) and unbalancing strike. I keep the agro too. Also, on NON red/purple names, I don't need either. I just intim, poof they hit me for piddlesticks dmg(even on elite/epic) and they blind. GUESS WHAT PROFESSOR, BLIND MOBS TAKE SNEAK ATTACK DAMAGE, and look, i'm still tanking :P

All i can say at this point, is please go make a good 13/6/1-13/7 monklobat, and if u didn't 'REALLY' screw up, you will see what I'm talking about. Your flavor of advice will change a lot after that. STOP mashing that reply/quote button sir, go try first. THEN come back. GOOD BOY!