PVP Heat Death

[dieselphiend]

I just got hit for 1800 hp's in the pvp pit by 'Heat Death'. It even bypassed my Pale Lavender Ioun Stone. What gives?

Thanks devs for completely and totally ruining pvp just for the sake of making epics harder. Whats the big deal anyhow? Why do you take it so personally when people figure out how to make something easy? Nerf caster DC's and change the entire game? IMO epics should be easy for people that put the grind in. Now melee's are totally screwed in pvp, as any old noob caster (sorc, fvs, cleric) can come in and pwn eveyone. All the gear in the game with multiple past life feats, completionist, etc, and a melee would still be toast verses a caster.

You guys just fail to realize that the ddo community will adapt to your changes and epics will be just as easy as they were before if not more so.

[Windex69]

http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt257/gelxs980/angry_baby.jpg

[CrosisBlackwing]

This thread has reminded me of the "Perfect" PvP toon.
WF Fire Savant III 18 Sorc/2Monk

Con: 20+5 Lvls+7 Item+2 Tome+2 Racial+2 Ex+2 Rage+2 Yugo+2 Ship+2 Stance= 46 Con

Heat Death DC 10+18(Sorc)+18(Con)=DC 46 for 2000 Fire Damage
Sure, the Barbarians Survive, but were they a problem anyway?

[Crimsonplayer]

This thread has reminded me of the "Perfect" PvP toon.
WF Fire Savant III 18 Sorc/2Monk

Con: 20+5 Lvls+7 Item+2 Tome+2 Racial+2 Ex+2 Rage+2 Yugo+2 Ship+2 Stance= 46 Con

Heat Death DC 10+18(Sorc)+18(Con)=DC 46 for 2000 Fire Damage
Sure, the Barbarians Survive, but were they a problem anyway?

That's why you dance! Duh ;) Barb's cant get away from it.

[Quarterling]

I guess you are the melee version of h4x00r1f1c? Or however you spelled that guy's name... :D

[BLAKROC]

I just got hit for 1800 hp's in the pvp pit by 'Heat Death'. It even bypassed my Purple Ioun Stone. What gives?

Thanks devs for completely and totally ruining pvp just for the sake of making epics harder. Whats the big deal anyhow? Why do you take it so personally when people figure out how to make something easy? Nerf caster DC's and change the entire game? IMO epics should be easy for people that put the grind in. Now melee's are totally screwed in pvp, as any old noob caster (sorc, fvs, cleric) can come in and pwn eveyone. All the gear in the game with multiple past life feats, completionist, etc, and a melee would still be toast verses a caster.

You guys just fail to realize that the ddo community will adapt to your changes and epics will be just as easy as they were before if not more so.

only 1800 hmmmmmm mebbe i missed a step in the respec. :eek:

[elujin]

yeah nevermind epics who cares about that we all know pvp is the real endgame ;)

[protokon]

I gotta agree with diesel. There are some pretty cheesy tactics that could easily be fixed with minimal effort to balance PvP a tiny bit better. the past life magic missles thing is also something that is pretty stupid down there.

[Vordax]

I just got hit for 1800 hp's in the pvp pit by 'Heat Death'. It even bypassed my Purple Ioun Stone. What gives?

Great they finally fixed PVP, just needed one more nail in the coffin!

Vordax

[Lummy]

You can use GS weapon with Fire absorp x3 + Firegreave Boots + FireShield !

[Quarterling]

I gotta agree with diesel. There are some pretty cheesy tactics that could easily be fixed with minimal effort to balance PvP a tiny bit better. the past life magic missles thing is also something that is pretty stupid down there.

I don't think Turbine is looking to balance PvP. Read the new Power Word: Kill description. Take a look at this from the Release Notes (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Release_Notes_Update_9_Official).

In PvP, players will get a Fortitude save, and only face death if under 100 hit points.

Oh no, this isn't balanced because my caster can no longer be uber in the pit and my life has no meaning now. Also, I'm far too cheap and lazy to buy or grind khyber dragonshards.

I would say remove PvP from the game, but then we wouldn't get all these funny threads that are fun to read to pass the time. http://forums.ddo.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

[cdbd3rd]

....
I would say remove PvP from the game, .... http://forums.ddo.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

Excellent suggestion.

:)

[Yajerman01]

I just got hit for 1800 hp's in the pvp pit by 'Heat Death'. It even bypassed my Purple Ioun Stone. What gives?

Thanks devs for completely and totally ruining pvp just for the sake of making epics harder. Whats the big deal anyhow? Why do you take it so personally when people figure out how to make something easy? Nerf caster DC's and change the entire game? IMO epics should be easy for people that put the grind in. Now melee's are totally screwed in pvp, as any old noob caster (sorc, fvs, cleric) can come in and pwn eveyone. All the gear in the game with multiple past life feats, completionist, etc, and a melee would still be toast verses a caster.

You guys just fail to realize that the ddo community will adapt to your changes and epics will be just as easy as they were before if not more so.

LOL, dont feel too bad Diesel, the "new" gank squad is in full effect, they have absurd caster "heat Death" and cleric/fvs have "divine punishment" which i was getting spammed on relentlessly last night

It seems that all the "bad drop casters" can efficiently run out all the decent pvper's, in particular, any meleer's who actually pvped well enough to make a difference in a pvp challenge.

It has made the peverbial bad player into the uberzestbombz.

It is what it is, I will jsut move on and actually get the gear I want on my toon now, rather than lazily waiting for particular groups to post an lfm. That and I guess I will now be forced to make a caster if I want to pvp.

[Truga]

I just got hit for 1800 hp's in the pvp pit by 'Heat Death'.Did someone say popcorn?

[stoopid_cowboy]

/eating popcorn while spamming Divine Punishment

yuda :D

[Yajerman01]

/eating popcorn while spamming Divine Punishment

yuda :D


The only problem I see is that since these spells in effect wipe out melee'rs, even the ones that brought some form of balance back into the pit with decent skillz.

All the fights that have any real "skill value" will be sans melee'rs. You will end up just pvping with yourself because lets face it, even the nubs with no skillz that have these spells will be able to counter the most proficient pvper that utilizes these spells.

Its a sad day for those who enjoyed meleeing against a caster, its a great day fro casters who have obtained these new spells.

Its a sad day in PVP arena all together but a great day for those anti-pvper's

I will see more fo you in PVE now. cheers!

[Forzah]

Pvp is the only area in this game where you face mobs that aren't clueless and the only area where you remotely need some skill.

On a different note: the new cleric spell also absorbs 10 charges of an ioun stone, while it is a lvl 5 spell, what's the deal with that?

[heyytoi]

PvP took a big step down...

It's like mod 3 pvp were you only had 1 spell *chain lighting*

Now its divine punishment and the arcane version of this spell.

This game just got even more boring.

...PvP is not Awesome anymore...


(like Protokon said: it would only take a few changes to make pvp fun again... But magic missile is awesome :))

[stoopid_cowboy]

The only problem I see is that since these spells in effect wipe out melee'rs, even the ones that brought some form of balance back into the pit with decent skillz.


No, the new DoT spells will take out a low HP arcane in just a couple of ticks. Melee's need a few more ticks to die.


Pvp is the only area in this game where you face mobs that aren't clueless and the only area where you remotely need some skill.

On a different note: the new cleric spell also absorbs 10 charges of an ioun stone, while it is a lvl 5 spell, what's the deal with that?

You need "skill" to jump around like an insane rabbit spamming every single hightened/maximized/empowered/ear dwellered spell on your bar while drinking tavern mana drinks?
Don't even get me started on Ioun stones...



...PvP is not Awesome anymore...




Sorry dood, PvP was never awesome. PvE is what makes this game awesome! :D

[Delt]

Agreed, the new spells kinda make pvp more silly than it already was. As usual though, if someone is using cheap tactics, use them yourself too. Melee's are kinda outta luck though.

It would be nice if they peeled off one dev for a pvp patch/improvement. Enough people use it.

PvP is the only hard, dynamic content you'll find in MMO's.

[Chai]

I just got hit for 1800 hp's in the pvp pit by 'Heat Death'. It even bypassed my Purple Ioun Stone. What gives?

Your "it blocks everything" item no longer blocks everything.


Thanks devs for completely and totally ruining pvp just for the sake of making epics harder. Whats the big deal anyhow?

Yes, thank you. Now can we have out general chat back?


You guys just fail to realize that the ddo community will adapt to your changes and epics will be just as easy as they were before if not more so.

Or completely realize that no matter how much they alter this game, PVPers will find the new flavor of the month PVP build and rarely lose, due to lack of PVP balance.

Its not about epics being easy or hard, as they will be so due to skill + gear or lack thereof, depending on the player. Its about not having only 1 option with everything else you can possibly build for being immune.

Melee was always totally screwed in PVP anyhow. This did not just happen with U9.

Neg rep for not liking PVP, what it does to our general chat, and liking the fact that epics are not just about using the same option in most quests. Toss this one on top of the pile of examples which clearly show the rep system fails.

[Yajerman01]

Melee was always totally screwed in PVP anyhow. This did not just happen with U9.

I Disagree. Some melees "had" a chance depending on HP, skill gear and buffs pre U9. Post U9 melees have as much of a chance as being able to light a match on a wet bar of soap.:D

Its all irrelevant though, most people that hate pvp dont even bother with it to begin with. But that doesn't stop them from chiming in and telling us how much they hate it. Moreover, people who talk about pvp who enjoy it are usually condemned for it. This I never understood. So much hate for something that doesnt even effect non-pvpers. That is no different than hating someone blindly for their religious beliefs.

DDO is not pvp oriented and I will concede that but what little PVP was made available did provide a time sink for some of us pvper's and made it enjoyable for the most part.

I played PVP and enjoyed it mostly because it gave me the opportunity to do something in between my RL. I do not usually have time to quest or I am often pulled away for RL issues. PVP was that time gap. SO for people who do not PV or hate it blindly I say your not looking at the big picture, just what you want to see.

I wont argue it endlessly though. I am just saddened that another element of my gameplay has been diminished.

It is what it is.

[Chai]

Its all irrelevant though, most people that hate pvp dont even bother with it to begin with. But that doesn't stop them from chiming in and telling us how much they hate it. Moreover, people who talk about pvp who enjoy it are usually condemned for it. This I never understood. So much hate for something that doesnt even effect non-pvpers. That is no different than hating someone blindly for their religious beliefs.



This is false. Asking devs to re-code something they feel works in PVE, differently so it works the way you want in PVP, to balance PVP in a game that was not designed around PVP, is not something that does not affect non-pvpers. It will affect the majority of the people who play this game, to satisfy the minority.

Most of us who have been around for a while now have tried every single aspect of this game, and clearly understand why we do or do not like something. We may disagree on what we like or dont like, but implying that it is due to not being completely informed or completely experienced on it is incorrect. Been there, done that, bought the T-shirt, and understand that this game was not built with PVP in mind. Expecting anything to be changed to balance PVP in this game is unrealistic. The good PVP games were designed with PVP in mind from the ground up. DDO was not.

I only have to counter any "this ruins PVP" arguement with one simple fact. PVP is NOT balanced in this game. It never was balanced. Here, the OP is providing neative feedback about the fact that Turbine put another mechanic into the game that is unbalanced in PVP, in a way that can be used against him that he cant counter. Whats the over under on his builds also being built to exploit the very fact that PVP is unbalanced to begin with, so that he can win most of the time?

So basically someone else uses the same tactic which there is no real practical defense to on the OP, which is exactly what people will gravitate to when building for PVP, and this is somehow bad. I bet it would not be so bad if he had thought of it first. Welcome to the new flavor of the month PVP build. warforged sorcs with 2 levels of monk were already dominating PVP as it is, so all they have to do is respec to this if they want to win in PVP.

[Vyrn]

Get better fort. Win. The general DCs are around 42ish, from the people Ive asked, low enough for me to save on a 2. Really, this just gets rid of the random lv4s running around, doesnt nothing to people with a decent char.

Anyway, dont pvp unless you like it in its current form. Why do people start threads about pvp when the response is always negative?


Its all irrelevant though, most people that hate pvp dont even bother with it to begin with. But that doesn't stop them from chiming in and telling us how much they hate it. Moreover, people who talk about pvp who enjoy it are usually condemned for it.

Yes, exactly. But this isnt just random hate, its completely justified, and I pvp alot. The reason its hated is because its such a minor part of the game, but most posts about pvp want to change the other vast majority to make this extremely minor part of the game balanced. Really, makes sense to me why its hated.

[dieselphiend]

Your "it blocks everything" item no longer blocks everything.



Yes, thank you. Now can we have out general chat back?



Or completely realize that no matter how much they alter this game, PVPers will find the new flavor of the month PVP build and rarely lose, due to lack of PVP balance.

Its not about epics being easy or hard, as they will be so due to skill + gear or lack thereof, depending on the player. Its about not having only 1 option with everything else you can possibly build for being immune.

Melee was always totally screwed in PVP anyhow. This did not just happen with U9.

Neg rep for not liking PVP, what it does to our general chat, and liking the fact that epics are not just about using the same option in most quests. Toss this one on top of the pile of examples which clearly show the rep system fails.



In the almost two years since I've played this game/PVP I've never once used general chat. Melee was not always totally screwed in PVP, ask anyone that spends at least a moderate amount of time PVP'ing, you obviously don't. PVP is/was great for those of use that rolled over from first person shooters, and other games that involved killing real people, now it just sucks. I enjoyed it so much that yesterday I considered canceling my account, and taking my money else where. I guess I'll just roll a caster now.

[elixer1]

I remember when PvP was awesome, everything was balanced, I use to use the fireball and then back it up with the dragon upper cut, and that would knock over Chun Li..... oh wait... That's right I never played DDO PvP, because it's a PvE game.

edit: neg rep, really?

[Yajerman01]

This is false. Asking devs to re-code something they feel works in PVE, differently so it works the way you want in PVP, to balance PVP in a game that was not designed around PVP, is not something that does not affect non-pvpers. It will affect the majority of the people who play this game, to satisfy the minority. Where did I say re-code anything???? If you are going to quote me at least try to stay in scope of my statement.

Most of us who have been around for a while now have tried every single aspect of this game, and clearly understand why we do or do not like something. We may disagree on what we like or dont like, but implying that it is due to not being completely informed or completely experienced on it is incorrect. (you are talking about yourself only - implying is the only generalization one can make or are "you implying" everyone that hates pvp has tried it, a bit hypocritical dont you think?)Been there, done that, bought the T-shirt, and understand that this game was not built with PVP in mind. Expecting anything to be changed to balance PVP in this game is unrealistic. The good PVP games were designed with PVP in mind from the ground up. DDO was not. Where did I disagree with this?

I only have to counter any "this ruins PVP" arguement with one simple fact. PVP is NOT balanced in this game. It never was balanced. Here, the OP is providing neative feedback about the fact that Turbine put another mechanic into the game that is unbalanced in PVP, in a way that can be used against him that he cant counter. Whats the over under on his builds also being built to exploit the very fact that PVP is unbalanced to begin with, so that he can win most of the time? I cant agree or disagree with this but I always played hard as an individual to counter the inbalance with playstyle. In fact I will probably try to counter this problem, but I cannot counter 2000 points of damage, maybe Divine punishment though.

So basically someone else uses the same tactic which there is no real practical defense to on the OP, which is exactly what people will gravitate to when building for PVP, (I have only known 1 person who actually built a character for PVP purposes; the spells from U9 can be picked up from any caster without altering the character to be specifically designed for pvp)and this is somehow bad. I bet it would not be so bad if he had thought of it first (no it wouldnt because you dont pvp :)). Welcome to the new flavor of the month PVP build. warforged sorcs with 2 levels of monk were already dominating PVP as it is, so all they have to do is respec to this if they want to win in PVP.

Like I said it is what it is. the OP who I know obviously doesnt like it, for me it has dimisnhed returns in my playtime.

[Memnir]

About 24 hours after the update, and the thread I knew was coming is here...
About 20 hours later then I expected, actually.

[Vyrn]

PVP is NOT balanced in this game. It never was balanced.

Exactly, some classes need more time spent thinking of ways to get around another classes cheap trick, then spend the time and resources getting the gear needed.


Here, the OP is providing neative feedback about the fact that Turbine put another mechanic into the game that is unbalanced in PVP, in a way that can be used against him that he cant counter.

Really? Heat death is so completely minor, its like an AA with 1 slayer arrow per minute(?), and a easily countered slayer at that.

2000 damage - Lets imagine you somehow gimped your fort.
1880 damage - Protec
940 - Coldshield (Nec4 cloak has a clicky)
____________
Insanely easy. Its almost within a manageable damage range. Now it gets to the point of grinding for pvp... and lava swimming :D. Im really not going to bother with this since I can deal with getting killed on rolling a 1.

940
310.2 - The fire absorp random gen item.
279 - First tier of GS (You have plenty of smalls)
237 - Second tier of GS (You have plenty of meds)
____________
Oh no. 250ish damage. On a 1. Its amazing.

Im sure I missed some rule of stacking, but you get the general point of what I mean. The point is go grind for gear if you really care about pvp. Otherwise, dont do it in its current form.

[Yajerman01]

Get better fort. Win. The general DCs are around 42ish, from the people Ive asked, low enough for me to save on a 2. Really, this just gets rid of the random lv4s running around, doesnt nothing to people with a decent char.

Anyway, dont pvp unless you like it in its current form. Why do people start threads about pvp when the response is always negative?



Yes, exactly. But this isnt just random hate, its completely justified, and I pvp alot. The reason its hated is because its such a minor part of the game, but most posts about pvp want to change the other vast majority to make this extremely minor part of the game balanced. Really, makes sense to me why its hated.

hehe TY, I was just calculating the possible DC's on this. See always trying to counter is good form!

[Chai]

In the almost two years since I've played this game/PVP I've never once used general chat. Melee was not always totally screwed in PVP, ask anyone that spends at least a moderate amount of time PVP'ing, you obviously don't. PVP is/was great for those of use that rolled over from first person shooters, and other games that involved killing real people, now it just sucks. I enjoyed it so much that yesterday I considered canceling my account, and taking my money else where. I guess I'll just roll a caster now.

Here we are again, assuming someone doesnt PVP because they dont support it.

When were melee beating casters who have one iota of knowledge in PVP in DDO?

I am not talking about bards dancing people from accross the room and finishing them off with melee either.

Arcane have been able to toss around lightning and ray spells that hit for more than any level of protection + their total HP any toon will have in one shot for a long time now. Clearing ioun stones is easy when you know the right spell combinations to do it with. No, melee dont stand a chance against a well played caster. A sorc running all over the place with quicken + the right spell combos queued up will not be in melee range if they do it right.

Every single arguement Ive seen against this always starts with the implication that those who dont support PVP have no idea. Again, false. We just understand that it is not to be taken too seriously in a game that isnt balanced for it through design. Those FPS games you are talking about were likely balanced for PVP, as they obviously had PVP in mind when they were created.

[dieselphiend]

This is false. Asking devs to re-code something they feel works in PVE, differently so it works the way you want in PVP, to balance PVP in a game that was not designed around PVP, is not something that does not affect non-pvpers. It will affect the majority of the people who play this game, to satisfy the minority.

Most of us who have been around for a while now have tried every single aspect of this game, and clearly understand why we do or do not like something. We may disagree on what we like or dont like, but implying that it is due to not being completely informed or completely experienced on it is incorrect. Been there, done that, bought the T-shirt, and understand that this game was not built with PVP in mind. Expecting anything to be changed to balance PVP in this game is unrealistic. The good PVP games were designed with PVP in mind from the ground up. DDO was not.

I only have to counter any "this ruins PVP" arguement with one simple fact. PVP is NOT balanced in this game. It never was balanced. Here, the OP is providing neative feedback about the fact that Turbine put another mechanic into the game that is unbalanced in PVP, in a way that can be used against him that he cant counter. Whats the over under on his builds also being built to exploit the very fact that PVP is unbalanced to begin with, so that he can win most of the time?

So basically someone else uses the same tactic which there is no real practical defense to on the OP, which is exactly what people will gravitate to when building for PVP, and this is somehow bad. I bet it would not be so bad if he had thought of it first. Welcome to the new flavor of the month PVP build. warforged sorcs with 2 levels of monk were already dominating PVP as it is, so all they have to do is respec to this if they want to win in PVP.


PVP could very easily have it's very own set of mechanics completely separate from PVE, designed for balance... All it would take is an investment from Turbine. What was wrong with the game pre-U9?

Just ran an epic Chrono and it was far easier than before...

[Vyrn]

Here we are again, assuming someone doesnt PVP because they dont support it.

When were melee beating casters who have one iota of knowledge in PVP in DDO?

I am not talking about bards dancing people from accross the room and finishing them off with melee either.

Arcane have been able to toss around lightning and ray spells that hit for more than any level of protection + their total HP any toon will have in one shot for a long time now. Clearing ioun stones is easy when you know the right spell combinations to do it with. No, melee dont stand a chance against a well played caster.

Every single arguement Ive seen against this always starts with the implication that those who dont support PVP have no idea. Again, false. We just understand that it is not to be taken too seriously in a game that isnt balanced for it. Those FPS games you are talking about were likely balanced for PVP, as they obviously had PVP in mind whenthey were created.

This. +1

[Darkrok]

Yes, thank you. Now can we have out general chat back?

No, Chai...if they stop talking in general chat while I'm leveling up my TR's in The Harbor how will I have them squelched when I start grouping? Without account-wide squelch options the chat coming from the PvP pit is my #1 way of avoiding idiots later in the game!

[Darkrok]

Every single arguement Ive seen against this always starts with the implication that those who dont support PVP have no idea. Again, false. We just understand that it is not to be taken too seriously in a game that isnt balanced for it through design. Those FPS games you are talking about were likely balanced for PVP, as they obviously had PVP in mind when they were created.

I'd +1 you but you post too much good stuff for me to do it yet. ;)

I've seen games that had a strong PvE component that also had enjoyable (and dev-balanced) PvP. Dark Age of Camelot in its heyday was a good example. DDO is not that game.

[dieselphiend]

Exactly, some classes need more time spent thinking of ways to get around another classes cheap trick, then spend the time and resources getting the gear needed.



Really? Heat death is so completely minor, its like an AA with 1 slayer arrow per minute(?), and a easily countered slayer at that.

2000 damage - Lets imagine you somehow gimped your fort.
1880 damage - Protec
940 - Coldshield (Nec4 cloak has a clicky)
____________
Insanely easy. Its almost within a manageable damage range. Now it gets to the point of grinding for pvp... and lava swimming :D. Im really not going to bother with this since I can deal with getting killed on rolling a 1.

940
310.2 - The fire absorp random gen item.
279 - First tier of GS (You have plenty of smalls)
237 - Second tier of GS (You have plenty of meds)
____________
Oh no. 250ish damage. On a 1. Its amazing.

Im sure I missed some rule of stacking, but you get the general point of what I mean. The point is go grind for gear if you really care about pvp. Otherwise, dont do it in its current form.

Show me one AA dex build with 42 fort that didnt waste feats/slots doing so and I'll punch myself in the face. My fort is at 26 unbuffed = 517 unbuffed hp's... One day after the update and you're already criticizing people for not having the gear to counter said spell??? My only gripe was that it bypasses an Ioun Stone, do you even know me? The purpose of an Ioun Stone is to not have to worry about fire absorption, etc...

I never once said that pvp was balanced, now did I say it should be. But why make it worse? Afaic the game is not any better than it was before...

[Postumus]

Neg rep for not liking PVP, what it does to our general chat, and liking the fact that epics are not just about using the same option in most quests. Toss this one on top of the pile of examples which clearly show the rep system fails.

When did you reactivate your rep? Why?

(Just curious)

[Yajerman01]

Without account-wide squelch options the chat coming from the PvP pit is my #1 way of avoiding idiots later in the game!

I occasionally text in general chat, nothing negative or derrogatory and I like to think im fair and treat people with equality, less you loose it. Nonetheless with that statement above your essentially calling me an idiot and everyone who may or may not walk into the PVP arean because it is in general chat.

My main is Aluecian, my alts are Steelguitar, Surver, Aleutian and Orcinator. Please squelch me sir as soon as possible, I wouldnt want my idiocy to impede on your righteousness.

[Chai]

PVP could very easily have it's very own set of mechanics completely separate from PVE, designed for balance... All it would take is an investment from Turbine. What was wrong with the game pre-U9?

Just ran an epic Chrono and it was far easier than before...

I agree they could have made a PVP separate from PVE game, but I feel the game would need to have been designed for it from the ground up, and would have needed to be launched this way in 2006. 5 years after the fact it would be a HUGE undertaking. The majority of the current forumites would not want to see that kind of dev time spent on that, where it could be spent making the PVE aspects of the game better. Most of us feel the updates are already too few and far between.

Pre U9 we had no sorc PREs, and epics were a mass hold > crit fest. Most other options mobs were immune to or were a joke, due to hp scaling -vs- spell damage scaling. Casters were either firewalling everything to death, and using other spells to supliment that damage, or mass holding / buffing. We definately needed more options. Whether we agree that U9 is what was needed or not is another animal, but we needed other options than mobs that are immune to 75% of everything we could build for.

[Chai]

When did you reactivate your rep? Why?

(Just curious)

A long time ago. Doesnt change my stance on the rep system though.

[Vyrn]

Show me one AA dex build with 42 fort that didnt waste feats/slots doing so and I'll punch myself in the face. My fort is at 26 unbuffed = 517 unbuffed hp's... One day after the update and you're already criticizing people for not having the gear to counter said spell??? My only gripe was that it bypasses an Ioun Stone, do you even know me? The purpose of an Ioun Stone is to not have to worry about fire absorption, etc...

I never once said that pvp was balanced, now did I say it should be. But why make it worse? Afaic the game is not any better than it was before...

Im critizing people for whining about a minor portion of the game and demanding the vast majority of the game be changed to help such a minor part. Ignore the math to reduce the damage, a simple way to counter it is to not be a gimp dex build AA relying on slayers and an ioun, and go get some fort. Really, its not that hard.

When said anything about AAs in the last post? Are you even reading more than a line of what I said? Slayers were meant as a reference to the only huge unresistable damage from a range. Also, why would you make a dex build AA? To waste a party slot? You said purple the pale lavender absorbs. Anyway, oh no. You cant win without adapting to the current tactics. The horror.

Anyway, my clerics at 41 fort, self buffed in the brawl pit. 14 base con, no feats for it (except heroes luck, which was for ref saves and a monk bonus). So make that a 40 fort easily attainable, Im also missing gnawed ring, gnawed ring set bonus, and epic env btw. Thats.. 4 more fort.

[Forzah]

It's really simple to make pvp work well. It only requires disabling of some spells and abilities in public areas, which has been done for spells like firewall and bladebarrier already. The following spells/abilities should be disabled in public/brawling areas:

-(Past life) magic missile (auto aim spells that do 200-300 dmg aren't fair)
-Meteor swarm (does too much dmg and can't be dodged properly in the arena)
-Imbue slaying arrow (rangers still have many shot, a great ability in pvp)
-The new cleric spell (100 dmg a tick that can't be mitigated and dodged is a bit too much)
-Any insta-kill ability (vorpals, fod, implosion are boring... we want to see a real fight)
-Song of capering (bards still get to fascinate, but 1 minute of dancing is a bit too good)

Some other suggestions that should make pvp more balanced, but that will affect pve a bit:
-Guards should do half damage on a save, or have increased procrate but lower damage.
-Reduce the number of charges on an ioun stone to 25.

Most of these changes are extremely simple to code, do not affect pve in any way and make pvp more fun. There is no loss for anyone, but a gain for some pvp'ers. Let's do this!

[Yajerman01]

It's really simple to make pvp work well. It only requires disabling of some spells and abilities in public areas, which has been done for spells like firewall and bladebarrier already. The following spells/abilities should be disabled in public/brawling areas:

-(Past life) magic missile (auto aim spells that do 200-300 dmg aren't fair)
-Meteor swarm (does too much dmg and can't be dodged properly in the arena)
-Imbue slaying arrow (rangers still have many shot, a great ability in pvp)
-The new cleric spell (100 dmg a tick that can't be mitigated and dodged is a bit too much)
-Any insta-kill ability (vorpals, fod, implosion are boring... we want to see a real fight)
-Song of capering (bards still get to fascinate, but 1 minute of dancing is a bit too good)

Some other suggestions that should make pvp more balanced, but that will affect pve a bit:
-Guards should do half damage on a save, or have increased procrate but lower damage.
-Reduce the number of charges on an ioun stone to 25.

Most of these changes are extremely simple to code, do not affect pve in any way and make pvp more fun. There is no loss for anyone, but a gain for some pvp'ers. Let's do this!

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQVBUKiTRKqYvbqQmzA6TqKcSkv8NFaJ hfCbraofcFkMhPli1IzFuuJLj4 (http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://correctopinion.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/ron-burgundy.jpg&imgrefurl=http://correctopinion.wordpress.com/2008/07/29/things-weve-learned-from-comic-con-2008/&usg=__y7oCDnl1z0ZPHyWMKYGjfUBkLaE=&h=847&w=562&sz=130&hl=en&start=10&zoom=1&itbs=1&tbnid=tPuJ4jCKN5c7BM:&tbnh=145&tbnw=96&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dron%2Bburgundy%26hl%3Den%26biw%3D1259 %26bih%3D847%26gbv%3D2%26tbm%3Disch&ei=X7y5TZPiGrHTiALz7OnuDw)

/signed

[Forzah]

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQVBUKiTRKqYvbqQmzA6TqKcSkv8NFaJ hfCbraofcFkMhPli1IzFuuJLj4 (http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://correctopinion.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/ron-burgundy.jpg&imgrefurl=http://correctopinion.wordpress.com/2008/07/29/things-weve-learned-from-comic-con-2008/&usg=__y7oCDnl1z0ZPHyWMKYGjfUBkLaE=&h=847&w=562&sz=130&hl=en&start=10&zoom=1&itbs=1&tbnid=tPuJ4jCKN5c7BM:&tbnh=145&tbnw=96&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dron%2Bburgundy%26hl%3Den%26biw%3D1259 %26bih%3D847%26gbv%3D2%26tbm%3Disch&ei=X7y5TZPiGrHTiALz7OnuDw)

/signed

I don't know Ron Burgundy, but I agree with him :D. Should probably make a new thread for my post sometime.

Ragehead here btw :)

[Vyrn]

It's really simple to make pvp work well. It only requires disabling of some spells and abilities in public areas, which has been done for spells like firewall and bladebarrier already. The following spells/abilities should be disabled in public/brawling areas:

-(Past life) magic missile (auto aim spells that do 200-300 dmg aren't fair)
-Meteor swarm (does too much dmg and can't be dodged properly in the arena)
-Imbue slaying arrow (rangers still have many shot, a great ability in pvp)
-The new cleric spell (100 dmg a tick that can't be mitigated and dodged is a bit too much)
-Any insta-kill ability (vorpals, fod, implosion are boring... we want to see a real fight)
-Song of capering (bards still get to fascinate, but 1 minute of dancing is a bit too good)

Some other suggestions that should make pvp more balanced, but that will affect pve a bit:
-Guards should do half damage on a save, or have increased procrate but lower damage.
-Reduce the number of charges on an ioun stone to 25.

Most of these changes are extremely simple to code, do not affect pve in any way and make pvp more fun. There is no loss for anyone, but a gain for some pvp'ers. Let's do this!

Sure. Now find are reason to justify the dev time spent, when it couldve used making the vast majority of customers happier, and improving the vast majority of the game. I cant think of any and I pvp quite a bit, while also getting killed by quite a bit of those at times.

Edit: I agree the new divine spell is over-the-top. Sure is fun though.

[Yajerman01]

I don't know Ron Burgundy, but I agree with him :D. Should probably make a new thread for my post sometime.

Ragehead here btw :)


You know your statement was too easy to explain. This might cause consternation and Turbine wide panic for its simplicity.

[Yajerman01]

Sure. Now find are reason to justify the dev time spent, when it couldve used making the vast majority of customers happier, and improving the vast majority of the game. I cant think of any and I pvp quite a bit, while also getting killed by quite a bit of those at times.

Edit: I agree the new divine spell is over-the-top. Sure is fun though.

People in this game will never be happy completely. there will always be somethign to complain about so this point is moot.

[Forzah]

Sure. Now find are reason to justify the dev time spent, when it couldve used making the vast majority of customers happier, and improving the vast majority of the game. I cant think of any and I pvp quite a bit, while also getting killed by quite a bit of those at times.

Edit: I agree the new divine spell is over-the-top. Sure is fun though.

The changes on top of my list should require only an hour of work for a coder that is familiar with DDO's code. I've helped out with some coding in a Quake 3 mod and can speak from experience. The functionality for disabling spells in the brawling arena has been implemented a long time ago already, so it's merely a question of retagging said spells (in the same category as firewall/blade barrier).

[Grieve]

Really didn't want to get invloved in the conversation, but since I'm bored...

I'd just like to say that anyone that complains about PvP needing to be fixed really needs to just open their eyes and realize this game is not about PvP. DnD has always been a group focused PvE style game. DnD in its essence is about adventuring, questing, exploring, and meeting people.

For those that think PvP is their life in this game, You have chosen the wrong game and here are a few reasons why.

1) PvP doesn't have a fast track for leveling & generically gearing a PvP Specific character.
2) There are no real organized PvP Competitions.
3) PvP is built into a PvE zone. If they meant to make good PvP, it would be seperated almost completely from PvE
4) Good PvP requires multiple developers working full time on balancing all aspects of PvP gameplay constantly due to ever changing metas.

Considering none of these things really exist in DDO. I would have to conclude that they probably only intended the "PvP" pit as a place for players to test out game mechanics for their PvE builds or just to mess around with friends.

[GotSomeQuestions]

these changes are extremely simple to code, do not affect pve in any way
Really? Last time I checked, the Mabar and Crystal Cove events had a big public zone where you fought mobs, with the same set of spell restrictions that you have in a tavern. Banning even more spells from those events would affect PvE play--instant kill spells and effects were a staple against those high-hp cove minotaurs, for example.

If you want balanced PvP, your best bet is to do a match in one of the actual PvP arenas (I like The Stash, although I mostly use it for testing spell effects). Just agree beforehand what you'll use and what's off limits, and go from there.

[Yajerman01]

Really didn't want to get invloved in the conversation, but since I'm bored...

I'd just like to say that anyone that complains about PvP needing to be fixed really needs to just open their eyes and realize this game is not about PvP. DnD has always been a group focused PvE style game. DnD in its essence is about adventuring, questing, exploring, and meeting people.

For those that think PvP is their life in this game, You have chosen the wrong game and here are a few reasons why.

1) PvP doesn't have a fast track for leveling & generically gearing a PvP Specific character.
2) There are no real organized PvP Competitions.
3) PvP is built into a PvE zone. If they meant to make good PvP, it would be seperated almost completely from PvE
4) Good PvP requires multiple developers working full time on balancing all aspects of PvP gameplay constantly due to ever changing metas.

Considering none of these things really exist in DDO. I would have to conclude that they probably only intended the "PvP" pit as a place for players to test out game mechanics for their PvE builds or just to mess around with friends.

thank you for your opinion, our next speaker is.......

[Darkrok]

I occasionally text in general chat, nothing negative or derrogatory and I like to think im fair and treat people with equality, less you loose it. Nonetheless with that statement above your essentially calling me an idiot and everyone who may or may not walk into the PVP arean because it is in general chat.

My main is Aluecian, my alts are Steelguitar, Surver, Aleutian and Orcinator. Please squelch me sir as soon as possible, I wouldnt want my idiocy to impede on your righteousness.

No, I'm saying that I squelch everyone who talks like an idiot while PvP'ing. If you're not talking like an idiot then I don't squelch you.

Thanks for the -1 though!

[Yajerman01]

Thanks for the -1 though!

you notice i dont use the neg system, dont you?

"While participating on the Community Sites, you must respect the rights of others to participate in the community. To this end you may not harass, defraud, threaten or cause distress and/or unwanted attention to other members or Turbine staff. This includes, but is not limited to: Posting or commenting with the intent of provoking ("trolling") another user or users"

Please refrain from missinformation. thank you.

[Darkrok]

you notice i dont use the neg system, dont you?

"While participating on the Community Sites, you must respect the rights of others to participate in the community. To this end you may not harass, defraud, threaten or cause distress and/or unwanted attention to other members or Turbine staff. This includes, but is not limited to: Posting or commenting with the intent of provoking ("trolling") another user or users"

Please refrain from missinformation. thank you.

Ummm, I don't care who gave me the -1. Thanks to whoever it is.

And I don't think saying thanks for the -1 is misinformation. I assumed you turned your rep on to neg-rep me and then turned it back off based on the fact you're the only person that took issue with the fact that I squelch people that make idiotic comments while pvp'ing. If other people have a problem with the way I make decisions to squelch people in-game then my thank you goes out to them as well. ;)

[Darkrok]

Neg rep for not liking PVP, what it does to our general chat, and liking the fact that epics are not just about using the same option in most quests. Toss this one on top of the pile of examples which clearly show the rep system fails.

Heck, I got neg rep for saying I squelch people that talk like idiots while pvp'ing. I think it shows why both the rep system and the pvp in game are lacking. It doesn't take very many people acting the fool to ruin a thing for everyone. The PvP pits definitely have more than a few people that fit that description. ;)

[protokon]

Heck, I got neg rep for saying I squelch people that talk like idiots while pvp'ing. I think it shows why both the rep system and the pvp in game are lacking. It doesn't take very many people acting the fool to ruin a thing for everyone. The PvP pits definitely have more than a few people that fit that description. ;)

there's a difference between stating your opinion in a mature manner than just merely posting a derogatory, condescending statement. You guys should take a look at the tones of your own post and ask yourself if it was really warranted or not before complaining*


*i'm not the one passing out neg rep either.

[Yajerman01]

Ummm, I don't care who gave me the -1. Thanks to whoever it is. If you didnt care then you wouldnt have mentioned it.

And I don't think saying thanks for the -1 is misinformation. I assumed you turned your rep on to neg-rep me and then turned it back off based on the fact you're the only person that took issue with the fact that I squelch people that make idiotic comments while pvp'ing. If other people have a problem with the way I make decisions to squelch people in-game then my thank you goes out to them as well. ;) Accusing me IS missinformation to the public.

There is nothing in your previous statements that indicates you quelch based off of "idiotic comments"

here is your previous statement
" No, Chai...if they stop talking in general chat while I'm leveling up my TR's in The Harbor how will I have them squelched when I start grouping? Without account-wide squelch options the chat coming from the PvP pit is my #1 way of avoiding idiots later in the game!"

In no way shape or form do you indicate its based off of idiotic comments and to assume otherwise would not be prudent. Your contorting your original statement issue to justify your current position.

With your assessments and contortions I beg of you to please squelch me.

[Darkrok]

there's a difference between stating your opinion in a mature manner than just merely posting a derogatory, condescending statement. You guys should take a look at the tones of your own post and ask yourself if it was really warranted or not before complaining*


*i'm not the one passing out neg rep either.

Here's my post:


No, Chai...if they stop talking in general chat while I'm leveling up my TR's in The Harbor how will I have them squelched when I start grouping? Without account-wide squelch options the chat coming from the PvP pit is my #1 way of avoiding idiots later in the game!

I stand by the tone of that post. The general chat that goes on in relation to PvP is almost completely idiotic and juvenile. It detracts from the game experience of everyone else that's playing. Without exaggeration I can say that a good quarter of the time I go to the harbor there are at least two people in a childish argument over PvP, usually over which one is using cheesy tactics and which one is uber l33t or other tripe.

So yes, I do want them to keep acting the fool in General Chat because those are exactly the people I do NOT want to group with when they decide to run things in PvE. I'm sorry that some people find the idea that people don't want to group with people that act worse than children offensive enough to neg rep the post, but I think the tone of my post is pretty clear. I find those people, the ones bickering in general chat about pvp, annoying enough to want nothing to do with them.

[stoopid_cowboy]

<snip blah blah>

My e-peen is bigger than yours!
I am gonna equip my UBER "nothing can hurt me" jewelry and own you!
If that doesn't work I will just spam general chat with how lame you are.
If that doesn't work, I will spam the PvP forum on how much they need to nerf YOUR build so I can kick your @$$!!!

Muahahaa I will own you and have the largest PvP e-peen EVAR!!!!

<disclaimer>: Above text is written in pure humor to illustrate how silly people can act towards PvP. Grieve is a great in game friend of mine that I run quests with on a daily basis. For anyone to take above text seriously, you need to log off the computer and take a serious look at yourself in the mirror. After all, we all know Grieve has ABSOLUTELY no chance in beating me in PvP. :D

Now back to your regularly scheduled programming.

/moar popcorn

yuda :D

[Chai]

there's a difference between stating your opinion in a mature manner than just merely posting a derogatory, condescending statement. You guys should take a look at the tones of your own post and ask yourself if it was really warranted or not before complaining*


*i'm not the one passing out neg rep either.

Youre right there is a difference.

Unfortunately, on these forums, most of the time "stating your opinion in a mature manner" = "repper agrees with you" and "just merely posting a derogatory, condescending statement" = "repper disagrees with you."

When it comes to PVP, most people wont even agree on whats considered "fair" and whats considered "cheap" - how could Turbine ever balance this game to a PVP standard? Usually this is what most of the general chat channel jaw jacking is about coming out of the PVP areas. Someone gets beat, doesnt like the tactic the other person used to beat them, and now its a 45 minute flame fest in general chat. Squelch at that point is clearly the best option, as anything else would be adding a few more HD to the fireball...or something like that.

[Darkrok]

Accusing me IS missinformation to the public.

There is nothing in your previous statements that indicates you quelch based off of "idiotic comments"

here is your previous statement
" No, Chai...if they stop talking in general chat while I'm leveling up my TR's in The Harbor how will I have them squelched when I start grouping? Without account-wide squelch options the chat coming from the PvP pit is my #1 way of avoiding idiots later in the game!"

In no way shape or form do you indicate its based off of idiotic comments and to assume otherwise would not be prudent. Your contorting your original statement issue to justify your current position.

With your assessments and contortions I beg of you to please squelch me.


Oh let it rest. You're not lawyering a court case right now. It's a message board for cripes sake. Sorry I offended you with my 'misinformation'. Read my post above and let it drop. I stand by what I said and have clarified it even further for the people that want to play semantics.

[heyytoi]

... would not want to see that kind of dev time spent on that, where it could be spent making the PVE aspects of the game better.....

The number of devs that work on the pve aspect of the game will never change if they decide to also work on pvp. Devs get specific jobs, they dont all work on every aspect of the game, it would be crazy. So the devs that works on Pve dont work on pvp (like the hockey player wont go work as a janitor), and when you ask for devs not to waste there time on pvp your asking the devs that were hired for pvp not to work..

Anyway

PvP has always been a big part of the game for me and i enjoy it. But now its simply no fun and it ruin my game experience.

[Yajerman01]

I stand by what I said

I know what you said and I stand by my sentiments.

Aluecian
Aleutian
Steelguitar
Surver

[xTethx]

Pvp take a f****** number. You are somewhere in the back of the line. Next in line should be 3 new raids level 20 and up.

[floating]

I just got hit for 1800 hp's in the pvp pit by 'Heat Death'. It even bypassed my Purple Ioun Stone. What gives?

Thanks devs for completely and totally ruining pvp just for the sake of making epics harder. Whats the big deal anyhow? Why do you take it so personally when people figure out how to make something easy? Nerf caster DC's and change the entire game? IMO epics should be easy for people that put the grind in. Now melee's are totally screwed in pvp, as any old noob caster (sorc, fvs, cleric) can come in and pwn eveyone. All the gear in the game with multiple past life feats, completionist, etc, and a melee would still be toast verses a caster.

You guys just fail to realize that the ddo community will adapt to your changes and epics will be just as easy as they were before if not more so.

1. half the hp on mobs isnt harder, and neither is being able to wail in epic
2. Pvp was a caster fest anyway already even if the caster was a nooby caster
3. Pvp doesnt cover much of the play the average ddo player does so if they geared the update towards non - pvp then im not surprised.

[Yajerman01]

Pvp take a f****** number. You are somewhere in the back of the line. Next in line should be 3 new raids level 20 and up.

no. until you learn to solo Epic vons on your own, PVP comes first! :D

[likuei]

1. Finish the classes.
2. Finish the races.
3. Finish the PrEs.
4. Reduce the lag.
5. Reduce the number of bugs.
6. Force the search screen to pop up whenever anyone types in PvP.

Look, DDO was created as a team based PvE game. PvP was thrown in
because people wanted a time waster ... they got it. Done.

The amount of work you have put into arguing your point, you could
have found a game that gives you PvP. End of statement.

[Hendrik]

My e-peen is bigger than yours!
I am gonna equip my UBER "nothing can hurt me" jewelry and own you!
If that doesn't work I will just spam general chat with how lame you are.
If that doesn't work, I will spam the PvP forum on how much they need to nerf YOUR build so I can kick your @$$!!!

Muahahaa I will own you and have the largest PvP e-peen EVAR!!!!

<disclaimer>: Above text is written in pure humor to illustrate how silly people can act towards PvP. Grieve is a great in game friend of mine that I run quests with on a daily basis. For anyone to take above text seriously, you need to log off the computer and take a serious look at yourself in the mirror. After all, we all know Grieve has ABSOLUTELY no chance in beating me in PvP. :D

Now back to your regularly scheduled programming.

/moar popcorn

yuda :D


You forgot the "I'm blacklisting you from pvp11!!!!1`111!!!"

[Yajerman01]

Why would I make a dex build AA??? Are you kidding? AA's are traditionally dex builds...... And BTW, I would rather use force burst with my triple neg GS bow for pvp than slayer any day. I am not your run of the mill, jump slayer ranger...

I can attest 2 things. 1. You never, IF ever use slayer in the pit and 2. You do go through quests exceptionally fast :)

Aside that, im gonna down you soon! We might have to use deathmaatch now though when i capp again. :)

[dieselphiend]

Im critizing people for whining about a minor portion of the game and demanding the vast majority of the game be changed to help such a minor part. Ignore the math to reduce the damage, a simple way to counter it is to not be a gimp dex build AA relying on slayers and an ioun, and go get some fort. Really, its not that hard.

When said anything about AAs in the last post? Are you even reading more than a line of what I said? Slayers were meant as a reference to the only huge unresistable damage from a range. Also, why would you make a dex build AA? To waste a party slot? You said purple the pale lavender absorbs. Anyway, oh no. You cant win without adapting to the current tactics. The horror.

Anyway, my clerics at 41 fort, self buffed in the brawl pit. 14 base con, no feats for it (except heroes luck, which was for ref saves and a monk bonus). So make that a 40 fort easily attainable, Im also missing gnawed ring, gnawed ring set bonus, and epic env btw. Thats.. 4 more fort.

Yeh, I love wasting party slots. Especially during TOD's when a lag spike wipes out the entire party (except for the Jailer kiter, ME) with the judge at 5 - 10%, and the jailer at 95%, only to finish the Judge and the Jailer all by my lonesome. Has happened twice now... I can practically solo Devils Assault epic, I have made it to the second wave easily, but end up getting tripped and killed. If it wasn't for trip I could solo it. Take Sins for example, I can easily solo it on elite. Yeh, I'm wasting a party slot, only when I don't have enough space in my backpack for your soulstone...

[CrosisBlackwing]

DC 42? What kind of PvP specced Sorc are they!?

Con 20 base+5 Levels+7 Item+4 Tome+3 Exceptional+3 Profane+2 Racial+2 Ship+2 Yugo+2 Rage+4 PL Barb Rage+4 Barb rage+4 Madstone+2 DDO Store pot+2 Alch pot+6 Scourge+4 Double madstone= 74 (It is PvP OF COURSE they are going to use Store and Alchemical Potions!)

DC = 10 Base+19 Sorc+32 Con = DC 61! Eat that Ya PvPers!

(As an aside, you have a TON of Hps too. like Alot. 20 Base+12 barb+76 Sorc+640 Con+20 racial+22 Tough+30 GFL+20 Toughness+10 Argo= 850 Sorc HPs! RAWR!)

[dieselphiend]

Hey now, whoa easy there tigger!!! Im a str build, but I also have a different playstyle than you, but dont be knocking str build or ill send Fonzie out to cool you off!

No disrespect A, you know I love ya. But I'll just turtle up, and wait for the barrage to end...

[Yajerman01]

No disrespect A, you know I love ya. But I'll just turtle up, and wait for the barrage to end...


You forget that im a ranger now too, ditto!

[dieselphiend]

Hey now, whoa easy there tigger!!! Im a str build, but I also have a different playstyle than you, but dont be knocking str build or ill send Fonzie out to cool you off!

I will admit, there's times when I wish I was a str build. But only when I'm throwing a volley at Made and that **** shield. It does have it's place. My build is more of a utilitarian...

[dieselphiend]

I'm just gonna tr into a sorc AA half-elf...

[Aurora1979]

I think turbine should set up a focus group. Find out what seems to be a general agreement on playstyle in PvP then employ X number of programmers.

Dont use existing staff, hire more. Give the the basic code for DDO and allow them to change it to suit the PvP pit. Have that code come on when you walk in the door, the rest of the game uses the PvE code.

Then make PvP a DDO store item to cover the cost of the new programming team.

Allow 1 PvP pit to remain open to all players under PvE rules so that the general populace can test etc but only people that pay for the PvP pass can play PvP rules.

As far as i can see everyone gets what they want.

Non PvPers dont lose dev time being spent on new stuff.

PvPers get the rule set they want.

Turbine get more money and employ a couple of new programmers.

[dieselphiend]

I can attest 2 things. 1. You never, IF ever use slayer in the pit and 2. You do go through quests exceptionally fast :)

Aside that, im gonna down you soon! We might have to use deathmaatch now though when i capp again. :)

:)

[stoopid_cowboy]

You forgot the "I'm blacklisting you from pvp11!!!!1`111!!!"

Do'oh! I totally did forget that part.

Hendrik, I am totally blacklisting your from PvP!!! Sorry it had to come to this, but you are a big girl and you will either cope with it or slit your wrists with a comb. :D

Is that better? LOLz

yuda :D

[heyytoi]

I will admit, there's times when I wish I was a str build. But only when I'm throwing a volley at Made and that **** shield. It does have it's place. My build is more of a utilitarian...

bwahahahahaaaa

[protokon]

Here's my post:



I stand by the tone of that post. The general chat that goes on in relation to PvP is almost completely idiotic and juvenile. It detracts from the game experience of everyone else that's playing. Without exaggeration I can say that a good quarter of the time I go to the harbor there are at least two people in a childish argument over PvP, usually over which one is using cheesy tactics and which one is uber l33t or other tripe.

So yes, I do want them to keep acting the fool in General Chat because those are exactly the people I do NOT want to group with when they decide to run things in PvE. I'm sorry that some people find the idea that people don't want to group with people that act worse than children offensive enough to neg rep the post, but I think the tone of my post is pretty clear. I find those people, the ones bickering in general chat about pvp, annoying enough to want nothing to do with them.

general chat banter is not directly related to PVP. you can find idiotic general chat anywhere in the game. I'm sure there may be generally more noise in the harbor area, but to be fair I have never watched general chat while around the lobster - or anywhere for that fact.

as far as people bickering in general chat, they will always be there - regardless of its two hot-headed kids in the lobster or some crazy religious types trying to invoke there holier than thou attitude on others.

personally I think the general chat channel should be removed entirely - or moderated actively to remove some of the ridiculousness.

[IWZincedge]

Had to clean this baby up a bit. You may not always agree with the Community Guidelines, but please refrain from name-calling in the forums.

[hityawithastick]

OH NOES HEAT DEATH!

I'm going to have to update the comprehensive rulebook so that we can ignore the rules more accurately. :eek:





LEGITIMATE SUGGESTION: Just drop into the middle. No ability goes off on you if there's something solid between you and the target.

Also...the purple ioun stone doesn't block spells. >.> Just saying.

Addendum:

Do people actually squelch/report/ragequit based on general chat? It seems so ostensibly silly to read that I always assumed it was a joke.

[Majere_Aumar]

Coming from a software perspective on whether to have different rules and spell effects for pvp and pve .... it would possibly cause game performance issues as more rules were created.

For every spell cast in both pve and pvp, the game would then have to check whether the target was a player or a mob and apply the appropriate effect.
I know they've done this for a few spells (power word kill, power word stun), but if they respond to every nerf request, they'll head down a slippery slope to performance problems.

They'll require a whole lot more QA and load testing between updates, which means a delay in the updates being released (because you can bet they won't put more staff on for pvp).

This is the reason that games which are design for pvp+pve are designed that way from the start and effects work the same on players and mobs.

[Beeeeeaner]

That's why you dance! Duh ;) Barb's cant get away from it.

Wow....

[Tom318]

A long time ago. Doesnt change my stance on the rep system though.

He didn't answer the 'why' part so I'll do it.. it's because he enjoys validating his worldview.

[ProdigalGuru]

I would support some Dev time being spent on PvP IF their first order of business was to shut down the Brawling Pits.

[Yajerman01]

He didn't answer the 'why' part so I'll do it.. it's because he enjoys validating his worldview.


Hahaha, + something... :); looks like a chicken, smells like a chicken, taste like a chicken...its gotta be chicken!

[Vyrn]

Yeh, I love wasting party slots. Especially during TOD's when a lag spike wipes out the entire party (except for the Jailer kiter, ME) with the judge at 5 - 10%, and the jailer at 95%, only to finish the Judge and the Jailer all by my lonesome. Has happened twice now... I can practically solo Devils Assault epic, I have made it to the second wave easily, but end up getting tripped and killed. If it wasn't for trip I could solo it. Take Sins for example, I can easily solo it on elite. Yeh, I'm wasting a party slot, only when I don't have enough space in my backpack for your soulstone...

Is that supposed to be a justification for how dex build AAs should be taken over well.. anyone? AAs are great, long as they can throw out some DPS.

ToD pt1 isn't all that hard really, granted I was healing, but I did watch a single DPS kill both bosses, from 100%, in a respectable amount of time. I'm sure anyone can do it if they're just kiting around. Also, if its a lag wipe, I don't think anyone I know would want to wait 15mins for the dex build AA to pew... pew... pew... away at the bosses when it would be faster to just restart pt1.

Haven't tried a short man DA, but really, the first wave is amazingly easy. Anyone whos done a DA knows this.

You can solo sins.. um.. great, that must be a real challenge.

Anyway, you're not even on my server, no point arguing with you over your builds when it doesn't affect me in any way.

[dieselphiend]

Is that supposed to be a justification for how dex build AAs should be taken over well.. anyone? AAs are great, long as they can throw out some DPS.

ToD pt1 isn't all that hard really, granted I was healing, but I did watch a single DPS kill both bosses, from 100%, in a respectable amount of time. I'm sure anyone can do it if they're just kiting around. Also, if its a lag wipe, I don't think anyone I know would want to wait 15mins for the dex build AA to pew... pew... pew... away at the bosses when it would be faster to just restart pt1.


Haven't tried a short man DA, but really, the first wave is amazingly easy. Anyone whos done a DA knows this.

You can solo sins.. um.. great, that must be a real challenge.

Anyway, you're not even on my server, no point arguing with you over your builds when it doesn't affect me in any way.

Did you miss the part about total AA base dmg being 5%? You really aren't accounting for slayer + ls + elemental dps which is the other 95%, AND HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH STR. Str build AA's will have problems with their chance to hit in epics. You seem to know nothing about rangers. Who needs str to roll a 20, vorps, slayer, etc... Most rangers are cookie cutter shot on the run, mobility, etc, feat wastes...

Whats your toons name? Mine is the same, look it up... Yeh we aren't on the same server, but it's pretty much general knowledge that Thelanis has the best and brightest players in DDO. Come on over to Thelanis to see real pvp/pve.

Oh, and BTW, do you have a melee that can solo Sins elite???

The only melee's that can solo both the Jailer and the Judge are paladins and rangers. Unless ofcourse they have silver flame 250's, or umd/heal scrolls. Dragonmark heals wouldn't cut it...

[dieselphiend]

ONM, just looked ya up. I can't believe your talking smack with that run-of-the-mill, been-done-a-million-times, average build. I guess you need the monk splash with that many hp's though...

[heyytoi]

but it's pretty much general knowledge that Thelanis has the best and brightest players in DDO. Come on over to Thelanis to see real pvp/pve.


Rofl

[Vyrn]

ONM, just looked ya up. I can't believe your talking smack with that run-of-the-mill, been-done-a-million-times, average build. I guess you need the monk splash with that many hp's though...

Lol. Char names in sig, Vyrns main rest are random builds I have no intention of playing in a real group as it stands now.

Lol at the part about thelanis. It has great players, sure, doesnt mean every last player there is brilliant or I should somehow respect someone more because theyre from thelanis.

MyDDO must be not working at all. Unless you have gear swapped out, cute, 25 more unbuffed HP and you can tell me my HPs trash.

[TheDjinnFor]

Sure, the Barbarians Survive, but were they a problem anyway?

I take it you don't PvP much...

[fluffybunnywilson]

I just got hit for 1800 hp's in the pvp pit by 'Heat Death'.

Someone actually made a Fire Savant with their level 18 Sorcerer?

Screen shot or it didn't happen.

[Thesoulgazer]

Someone actually made a Fire Savant with their level 18 Sorcerer?

Screen shot or it didn't happen.

Is that odd or unnatural for any reason?


But magic missile is awesome :))

Shield/nightshield works in PVP, right? Please tell me yes



Methinks all the savant powers are useful for griefing melees with less then good DCs in PVP.

Fire: See OP

Water: 500 dgm and frozen.

Earth: CC based on Reflex save. Nice.

Air: Not DC based, but now the sorcs are even harder to hit, since they can not only bunny jump and run fast with haste, they can now abundent step their way out of trouble if you get them cornered.

[Xaearth]

I just got hit for 1800 hp's in the pvp pit by 'Heat Death'. It even bypassed my Pale Lavender Ioun Stone. What gives?

So...
What you're saying is...
You... died in a fire?

/thread

[dieselphiend]

Lol. Char names in sig, Vyrns main rest are random builds I have no intention of playing in a real group as it stands now.

Lol at the part about thelanis. It has great players, sure, doesnt mean every last player there is brilliant or I should somehow respect someone more because theyre from thelanis.

MyDDO must be not working at all. Unless you have gear swapped out, cute, 25 more unbuffed HP and you can tell me my HPs trash.

Uhm, I've checked your toon twice. I see 432 hp's, while I'm at 517 unbuffed. 25? Wheres your upgraded tod sets?

[dieselphiend]

[QUOTE=Thesoulgazer;3769052]Is that odd or unnatural for any reason?



Shield/nightshield works in PVP, right? Please tell me yes

Not against Past Life MM's...

[xTethx]

This thread is full of win. And hey Citrus! :)

[Majere_Aumar]

Uhm, I've checked your toon twice. I see 432 hp's, while I'm at 517 unbuffed. 25? Wheres your upgraded tod sets?

lol....too funny.

[Yajerman01]

This thread is full of win. And hey Citrus! :)

Even though you may be cool, http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQGldS_EksGyB3HelaC5jlV8TuJnQ4SJ EX-d4WV5l24z3WrfWaO3VExpFU (http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.grimmemennesker.dk/data/media/3/failed.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.grimmemennesker.dk/ugly-people-543.htm&usg=__-0UjSHbl-HeIp9mGp78FDtkBVBQ=&h=437&w=600&sz=61&hl=en&start=5&zoom=1&itbs=1&tbnid=k-mthKM7czvvbM:&tbnh=98&tbnw=135&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dfailed%26hl%3Den%26gbv%3D2%26tbm%3Dis ch&ei=CHDBTYp5kqywA9yUqewH)you failed in this post because you failed to post a picture.

Example:

this thread is full of win!
http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQccS0njEuxopuPnIz5fH7Fk2yToIV57 6S68dQJE0I5Qlgm0rsV87CoDg (http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.xbox-360.co.za/userfiles/funny-winner.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.xbox-360.co.za/news/870/monday-blues-winner-1403/&usg=__wZHR9wbyYUCyDD8Kw8hamPTxnyA=&h=450&w=450&sz=60&hl=en&start=11&zoom=1&itbs=1&tbnid=e_E1So0Y1w0VrM:&tbnh=127&tbnw=127&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dwinner%2B-%2Bfunny%26hl%3Den%26gbv%3D2%26biw%3D1259%26bih%3D 847%26tbm%3Disch&ei=oG_BTeCEBIK-sQPXjrHsBw)

Now get back to your day job!
http://thecontaminated.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/geek-computer-station-1.jpg

[Vyrn]

Uhm, I've checked your toon twice. I see 432 hp's, while I'm at 517 unbuffed. 25? Wheres your upgraded tod sets?

Oh god, myDDO said its so, so it must be completely true. Lol, want a screeny?

[dieselphiend]

Oh god, myDDO said its so, so it must be completely true. Lol, want a screeny?

Well, myddo has returned those stats twice in one week, a third time and I'll call it fact regardless. Who logs off that often without their hp gear on?

[katz]

Well, myddo has returned those stats twice in one week, a third time and I'll call it fact regardless. Who logs off that often without their hp gear on?


http://my.ddo.com/character/cannith/vyrn/
Data Last Updated: 03/03/2011 1:52 am

fail

[fuzzy1guy]

fine

[Harncw]

fail

/qft

someone needs to take their failboat back to thelanis...

[doubledge]

uh oes. dispel be having happy dance

[hityawithastick]

Undead-formed pale masters are immune to heat death, for the same reason they are immune to burning blood....they don't really care that much about their organs.

As for the new DoTs: Break enchantment pulls them off, spamming prot elements can absorb a lot of the damage, and a mantle still stops them. You just have to be even faster than the other guy and kill him before he lands one on you. Or just land one on him (although, as mentioned, it can be dispelled). Note that melf's cannot be dispelled, because the acid is not magically coating them, it is injected directly into the spleen.

[katz]

i'm not a big PvPer, but i toy around with it occasionally, and yeah, it is kinda fun, but i don't understand what the huge fascination with it is. especially with DDO not being geared for it in the slightest. it's not a PvP game, and it makes no bones about that fact, so it seems a bit odd to me that people make such a big fuss that it's not balanced for PvP.
unfortunately for those that like PvP, DDO is not a PvP game, has not been a PvP game, and makes no indications that it ever will be a PvP game... so frankly those who like to PvP are lucky that the PvP element exists in any fashion in DDO. unfortunately that also means that any suggestions/opinions/whines/rants regarding the failings of or improvements to PvP will most likely go unheeded, because that is not the focus of the game or it's developers.
gotta put up with an imperfect system, because it's not designed for you. it's designed for PvE.

i expect to probably get neg rep for this, but so be it. it's the way things are in this game, and i don't expect them to change.

[dieselphiend]

Only partially true. All those other games that have pvp. The majority of them balanced the game around pvp.
Know what happened to them?

The pvp players didn't wanna play anymore because it was balanced and fair. They dont get their 'pwn' fix in those games.


The pvp oriented players got exactly what they say they wanted in ALOT of games. And they don't play those anymore.
Instead they come here. Where pvp is nothing. And demand pvp be fixed and balanced.


"balance" - Nerf all the stuff i can't do and make my one trick uber.

Just delete pvp already. Send them on their way to ruin some other game.


Give me neg rep. I enjoy neg rep from pvp threads in a sick and twisted way. It also justifys much of my personal hatred for pvp players.

Inflated ego, low self esteem...

[dieselphiend]

http://my.ddo.com/character/cannith/vyrn/
Data Last Updated: 03/03/2011 1:52 am

fail

fail? I've checked 4 times now, and I see 432 hp's.

[katz]

fail? I've checked 4 times now, and I see 432 hp's.

Data Last Updated: 03/03/2011 1:52 am

he's not updating.

that's WHY he was mocking you about relying on My.DDO. it's WELL known that My.DDO is not updating properly for some people.

honestly, it's really... REALLY... hard for me right now to NOT say something that'll earn me a point and get this eaten by the Cube. :eek: so again, i say:

fail

[dieselphiend]

People always say, "well if you don't like it, find another game", failing to consider the thousands of hours people have invested in their toons. Move on and start over in another game??? No thanks, I'll just complain about the current system till it's fixed, or until peoples ears bleed...

[katz]

People always say, "well if you don't like it, find another game", failing to consider the thousands of hours people have invested in their toons. Move on and start over in another game??? No thanks, I'll just complain about the current system till it's fixed, or until peoples ears bleed...

current system is not a PvP game. so there is nothing to "fix" as far as the devs are concerned. forgive me if i really don't want bleeding ears.

[dieselphiend]

Significant game changes, like from U9, really screw some people. People that planned their builds around previous updates, and mechanics. For the devs to make such drastic changes to the game, is to virtually slap certain builds in the face. It's like saying, "sorry, but all those hours you put into certain aspects of your build were a waste of time. You'll now need to do this, this, and this". But by the time you prepare for ,"this, this, and this", and your all setup, the game changes again, making your hard work null and void. It's inconsiderate...

[fuzzy1guy]

Inflated ego, low self esteem...

Yes, i've always believed pvp players suffer from these.

[Delt]

current system is not a PvP game. so there is nothing to "fix" as far as the devs are concerned. forgive me if i really don't want bleeding ears.

Kinda like saying DDO was never designed with crafting in mind -- so people calling for improvements to the new system should just shut up and find a new game.

Make ridiculous points all you like. Personally, I think improvements and additions to a game I play is always a good thing.

[katz]

i never said i was against improvements. i only said this game is not geared towards PvP, and as such was likely to never see improvements in that department. IF some day rolls around some dev decides they want to work on PvP, awesome. and i honestly mean that. i'd probably even play around with it a bit more if they expanded and enhanced the pvp system.

i'm just getting a little sick of all the crying in the meantime.

i stand by my statement... with the CURRENT focus of the game, there is nothing to "fix" as there is nothing "wrong" with an aspect that means nothing to the devs. if they change their mind and focus on it at some point in the future, that is when it will be "fixed".

and complaining about builds being ruined by massive sweeping changes to the game is another matter, which has been discussed at great length in many other threads.

*sigh*

[Hendrik]

Significant game changes, like from U9, really screw some people. People that planned their builds around previous updates, and mechanics. For the devs to make such drastic changes to the game, is to virtually slap certain builds in the face. It's like saying, "sorry, but all those hours you put into certain aspects of your build were a waste of time. You'll now need to do this, this, and this". But by the time you prepare for ,"this, this, and this", and your all setup, the game changes again, making your hard work null and void. It's inconsiderate...


And tough luck when you build PvP centric characters in a non-PvP centric game.

Might find more sympathy in a game where PvP is nothing more then an afterthought and will be nothing more then that.

[dieselphiend]

And tough luck when you build PvP centric characters in a non-PvP centric game.

Might find more sympathy in a game where PvP is nothing more then an afterthought and will be nothing more then that.

PVP builds aren't the only ones that suffered from U9. I've heard complaints from PVE toons as well. If DDO ever gets a large enough audience, and subscription base, as well as a new engine, you WILL see PVP become a more important aspect of the game. And I will say----------------I told you so...

Why would anyone (in their right mind) look for sympathy in troll-ville? I'm just expressing my opinion, and if you don't like it, oh well. I was never looking for an opinion from the anti-pvp crowd. We all know where you stand. Your team players, you feel safe and secure in a group setting, social creatures. It would probably make you nervous to fight one of your friends, and you wouldn't enjoy it. I'm a PVP'er at heart, I don't like people, and I just want to kill them (virtually). I'm sure I've made many people reconsider their builds. Yeh my toon is PVP centric, but also comparable to any ranger, in any environment. I'd bet my life on it....

[stille_nacht]

Is that odd or unnatural for any reason?


bearded devil- immune
orthon-immune
horned devil-immune
pit fiend-immune
hellhound-immune
tieflings- ?immune (unsure, as ive never really tried fire on them, do know that they get 0s in lowbie quests...)

and the first two comprise of pretty much all high end enemies :/, too much stuff is immune to fire for it to be really widespread D:, would be sweet vs. lailat though.

[katz]

Nope, I'll stay right here and do my very best to annoy you anti pvp'ers. Games evolve, and change, it's a fact. If DDO ever wants to seriously compete with gameslike WoW, then they'll have to pay attention to PVP.

is there a particular reason WHY you are trying to annoy people? i'm not anti-pvp and you're annoying the **** out of me too, because of your insufferable attitude. yes games change... but there's a reason i avoided WOW like the plague...


We don't need balance, just a large explorer area (pvp). Where different classes can take advantage of varrying terrain...

this is actually a good idea, and i like it. heck, use the existing pvp challenge arenas (not the pits, the separate arenas) if they have to to save on programming. however, sitting in the corner raging and stamping your little feet saying the equivalent of "i'ma hold my breath till i get what i want!!!! *inhale* *cheeks puff* *starts to turn blue*" is the WRONG way to get it. the devs don't listen to **** like that, and the rest of the community laughs at you and neg reps you into oblivion. quit acting like a spoiled brat and we may actually listen to you

[adamkatt]

Did those 10 people who stand in the lobster pit spamming metorswarm and mm get upset?!?!

I mean i stepped in just to test a spell out in the cannith lobster and told all thats what i wanted.. Then i get a tell from this wiz who was just spamming metorswarm, Im sorry your new... So i never got to test a thing i just got ****ed and left the lobster never to return. I would love to light up some of these so called pvpers in a real pvp game like good old quake3 or some of good battlefield games...

[zebidos]

What's all this about melee not having a chance?

1) Wait till the caster or ranger turns there back or is busy with someone else.

2) Rage yourself

3) Jump into the pit and charge the caster or ranger

4) Trip

5) Cast slash damage.

[kyleann]

PvP isn't the focus of this game, and it never will be. If it ever became a real focus it would have it's own server stated as a PvP server, but this wont ever happen. If you want that game, its WoW or CoD. DDO is PvE. The new updates, content, and about 99.99% of other development goes into PvE, and if they begin to go more in the PvP direction they stand to lose a LOT of player base.

I don't mind that some people enjoy it, because hey, to each their own. However, when they begin correcting PvP problems rather than the myriad other problems in-game there WILL be issues with that.

When you guys start paying specifically for PvP, then you get to have the changes you want. Since that won't ever happen, the system will remain a by-product of the rest of the content we get. Be happy they have PvP at all, because honestly with how broken it is I'm surprised it hasn't been taken offline yet.

[dieselphiend]

is there a particular reason WHY you are trying to annoy people? i'm not anti-pvp and you're annoying the **** out of me too, because of your insufferable attitude. yes games change... but there's a reason i avoided WOW like the plague...



this is actually a good idea, and i like it. heck, use the existing pvp challenge arenas (not the pits, the separate arenas) if they have to to save on programming. however, sitting in the corner raging and stamping your little feet saying the equivalent of "i'ma hold my breath till i get what i want!!!! *inhale* *cheeks puff* *starts to turn blue*" is the WRONG way to get it. the devs don't listen to **** like that, and the rest of the community laughs at you and neg reps you into oblivion. quit acting like a spoiled brat and we may actually listen to you

I'd could literally care less if anyone likes me, not one iota. I could mostly care less if PVP ever gets any attention from the devs. Sure, it would be cool, and in my opinion it needs developer attention. I just left the Thelanis Lobster pit, and there must have been 25 people in there, HAVING FUN. There was even a second instance. Your obviously very opinionated, and really do your very best to exaggerate all of your points, to the extent of falsehood. This thread was intended for the pro-PVP crowd, and since your here trolling you deserve to be annoyed. You're just lucky your not my next door neighbor, so go ahead, talk all that long distance bs, you're safe...

[katz]

...stuff...

my husband would take offense at the implication at the end of your post, and i strongly suggest you change it to avoid an infraction point or outright banning from the Cube. not saying anything further on THAT matter.

[dieselphiend]

[QUOTE=katz;3779407]my husband would take offense at the implication at the end of your post, and i strongly suggest you change it to avoid an infraction point or outright banning from the Cube. not saying anything further on THAT matter.[/QUOTE

misperception... your the one looking for something that isn't there...

[dieselphiend]

my husband would take offense at the implication at the end of your post, and i strongly suggest you change it to avoid an infraction point or outright banning from the Cube. not saying anything further on THAT matter.

If you want to take the route of a third grader, then so be it. Just proves who you really are...

[katz]

my husband would take offense at the implication at the end of your post, and i strongly suggest you change it to avoid an infraction point or outright banning from the Cube. not saying anything further on THAT matter.

misperception... your the one looking for something that isn't there...

ya know, i was nice. i didn't report you for it at first, but...

You're just lucky your not my next door neighbor, so go ahead, talk all that long distance bs, you're safe...
is a threat, no matter how you slice it or try to dance around the issue. feel good, tough guy, threatening a housewife? i'm not the one trolling here. i even agreed with you that a separate pvp zone would be a good and fun idea. YOU are the one being obnoxious and annoying everyone.

[dieselphiend]

ya know, i was nice. i didn't report you for it at first, but...

is a threat, no matter how you slice it or try to dance around the issue. feel good, tough guy, threatening a housewife? i'm not the one trolling here. i even agreed with you that a separate pvp zone would be a good and fun idea. YOU are the one being obnoxious and annoying everyone.

It's my thread, get out...

[dieselphiend]

So pvp is terrible, but people who aren't you enjoy it?

I must be the only ONE, right?



So 2 instances of the lobster are making you become a majority.

Except if there's any 5 quests going on, you're not the majority anymore.





Aside from TRs, epics, elite ToD...


I couldn't possibly count the time where there was more high level toons in the Lobster (Thelanis), then parties available to take them... There is often no one hosting a quest/raid in the 18 - 20 range at all. And no, I won't host. I've never enjoyed babysitting.

TR's, that just starting over, you're no longer capped (not end-game). Epics? What happens after you've ran them all? Elite Tod? Whats that take, 20 mins? Yes, PVP is the only real end-game content. In it's current form it sux, yet people play it everyday. I can only imagine how many MORE people would play it with significant design time invested...

[khaldan]

Let's take a second to define endgame, then:

What one does while at the level cap, or(and this one I can see disagreement with) TRing to get a particular set of past lives.

I'm adding in TRing, because of how endgame is percieved: I'm at X point, the only way I can get better is through gear. Instead of gear, however, I can grind 3.1/4.3 million and get a benefit, often one close to the same that I could get via gear.

As for the rest of your post: You've never seen a guild raid? Just because there aren't enough PuGs to take all the lobster people doesn't mean there aren't enough guild raids/quests.

After you've done all the epics once, I seriously doubt you have any epic items. Which is the entire point of running them, aside from the free true heart.

Elite ToD? I need +4 tomes. I'm not liable to get that in my first run, probably not in my first 20. There's always going to be a reason to run it, which means it's always going to be part of endgame. Heck, normal ToD can be considered endgame for rings.

Oh, and it's a (mostly)public forum. You post, anyone can respond.

[dieselphiend]

Let's take a second to define endgame, then:

What one does while at the level cap, or(and this one I can see disagreement with) TRing to get a particular set of past lives.

I'm adding in TRing, because of how endgame is percieved: I'm at X point, the only way I can get better is through gear. Instead of gear, however, I can grind 3.1/4.3 million and get a benefit, often one close to the same that I could get via gear.

As for the rest of your post: You've never seen a guild raid? Just because there aren't enough PuGs to take all the lobster people doesn't mean there aren't enough guild raids/quests.

After you've done all the epics once, I seriously doubt you have any epic items. Which is the entire point of running them, aside from the free true heart.

Elite ToD? I need +4 tomes. I'm not liable to get that in my first run, probably not in my first 20. There's always going to be a reason to run it, which means it's always going to be part of endgame. Heck, normal ToD can be considered endgame for rings.

Oh, and it's a (mostly)public forum. You post, anyone can respond.

Oh c'mon. The hunt for gear is perpetual... In that respect there is no end-game...

[khaldan]

Oh c'mon. The hunt for gear is perpetual... In that respect there is no end-game...

Then what would you classify endgame as?

[katz]

pvp, obviously. he's already stated that

[khaldan]

pvp, obviously. he's already stated that

The definition of endgame is what I'm trying to ask then.

[MartinusWyllt]

..Moreover, people who talk about pvp who enjoy it are usually condemned for it. This I never understood. So much hate for something that doesnt even effect non-pvpers. That is no different than hating someone blindly for their religious beliefs...

No, not like belief-based hate at all. You can neither prove nor disprove belief systems, all a matter of opinion. Knocking DDO players with a PvP obsession is more like trying to keep someone from wrecking their car or banging their head into a wall or any kind of futile activity you want to substitute.

Why?

Because there are choices out there...there are games designed/balanced specifically FOR PVP. If you live for taking up the challenge of playing against real people and want to do so in a competitive environment that is balanced for it, just look around a bit and find a game that suits what you want to do better...you will be happier for it.

(Though I do enjoy reading threads like this, keep at it, maybe your head will prove stronger than the wall someday.)

[Cordovan]

Please respect the PvP forums, if your only contribution to PvP threads is that you do not like PvP in DDO, or to harass those who do utilize this game option, you should not be posting in these threads. Please allow our players who want to discuss PvP in DDO to have a place to do so.